Heat Pump Nightmare Update - What Was Wrong With It?

[@CommercialGasEngineerVideos]

You're a brave man putting so much NRG into heat pumps and you're winning. Well most of the time.

[@Marc-ww7cc]

What were the potential root causes of this amount of dirt building up in the heat pump's heat exchanger? Galvanic corrosion? Some kind of external ingress of muck? Some other components in the system giving off crud that ends up accumulating in the heat exchanger?

[@RobertHeibel]

If we are looking to get a heat-pump but keeping old radiators, should we check our plumber dose a flush first or is this just a one off issue?

[@Tom_Plumb_PHS]

​@@RobertHeibelwith any new heat source even a new gas boiler I'd always recommend a clean to get maximum efficiency and to not risk clogging up your expensive new unit

[@fergusmckee]

Putting the unit surrounded with foliage adds dirt?

[@marksmith5977]

​@@RobertHeibel Every new installation must be flushed first. Otherwise the warranty goes out the window.

[@geoffaries]

If you're going to replace a boiler on an existing system, either with another HE boiler or an ASHP or GSHP, the first you should get a water analysis carried out, I use Fernox Lab for this. Then you'll know what type of flushing will be required. Then you must fit a good quality filter unit, I use Pneumatex or Spirax units. On a large dirty system I have used a side stream filter. It would seem that this system was either very dirty and/or was not correctly flushed. Some systems are so dirty, especially if they were Open Vented, that they can never be effectively cleaned.

[@geoffaries]

If you're going to replace a boiler on an existing system, either with another HE boiler or an ASHP or GSHP, the first you should get a water analysis carried out, I use Fernox Lab for this. Then you'll know what type of flushing will be required. Then you must fit a good quality filter unit, I use Pneumatex or Spirax units. On a large dirty system I have used a side stream filter. It would seem that this system was either very dirty and/or was not correctly flushed. Some systems are so dirty, especially if they were Open Vented, that they can never be effectively cleaned.

[@markcollins457]

Love the follow up work, the plate heat exchangers can be a little tedious. Your attention to the details is job Number One with high efficiency equipment.

[@darrenjosephgregory]

Second this, your videos are top notch but it is really great to see you go back to properties you have previously worked on. Keep them coming.

[@ram64man]

Good to see the follow up , please see if you can come back March time and get the owners review on how it went with winter as I get the feeling it’s going to be a cold one by mid November, and see if you can get some hard figures to cost , so I can compare it yo my own air to air unit , since I ditched the air to water due to poor performance in winter and needing a off grid backup sans power grid like last years 10 day spell. In that the echodan 16kw twin split couldn’t cope if it wasn’t for the wood fire we would have been in serious issues when temps hit negative 30 .

[@jtrent90]

Great fix. Do heat pumps modulate flow to control temperature? My Daikin runs at around 25L/min when its heating up, then will go down to around 15L/min, then i find it will sit around 7-10L once its reached temp and compressor goes off. Brand new system no old stuff, 8kw unit, this is running around 32C. There's no issues with it at all just observing how it works and cycles had me intriged.

[@johnridley1038]

I Saw the first film and wondered if all the pipe exchange was unnessecery, given that it still didnt work after all that effort, and sure enough I wonder what the flow rate would have been given the system was flushed first of all before all of the pipe work. But... clearly the client will have a much better system for all of the effort you have put in.

[@smartboilercompany1983]

It’s always a good feeling when you can prove what the problem was from the start. Be interesting to see how much more efficient the system will be now?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Not much 🤣. It run for 45min and flow dropped to 1400 l/h. I took the strainer out and it was full of crap. Now the system needs a full flush as well.

[@missionunpossible]

@@UrbanPlumbers so is the whole system just full of junk and it's accumulating at the lowest point?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@missionunpossible pipework is coated with 3-4mm of sludge. There is still some one the system.

[@SolAce-nw2hf]

@@UrbanPlumbersI was wondering if the crap had spread throughout the entire system. Lesson learned for the next time. Clean the existing heatpump and pipes before connecting it to anything brand new. This should save some time if it's cleaning while working on the new system.

[@niceguy235uk1]

Would be an even better feeling if he had done the job properly in the first place. The heat pump is blocked because he didnt flush the system properly, assuming he flushed it at all.

[@briangriffiths114]

If I've understood the comments correctly, this was previously a vented gas boiler CH system and the installer didn't flush it before fitting the heat-pump. Therefore, had the gas boiler remained, the system would have eventually caused problems through time unless it was routinely flushed as part of an ongoing maintenance programme?

[@scottweisel3640]

We do not (yet) see this technology in the USA, but I’m sure we will with the war on natural fuels threatening to eliminate NG/LP MODCON boilers. Your video answered one of my questions about these heat pumps: There IS a plate HX in the outdoor unit. The other question is what outdoor temperature do you use for heat loss calculation in your region. We use 0 degrees F (-18 C). I can only see these delivering enough BTU ‘s in small or very tight houses, unless multiple systems are used. Thanks for the enlightening content you provide.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

-3c. Biggest units on single phase can do around 13kW, so a very large modern house. 5-6 bedroom house if new build or well insulated can be done on a single heat pump

[@Timberjagi]

you actually do have this tech in the USA (our house in Portland had a heatpump) in our time it only needed servicing, but understood the original installer didn't want to do any maintenance and now we know why (it was a very very poor install)

[@gonnfishy2987]

I can attest! Though my “house” is small, it is long, narrow, a mixture of rooms and open spaces, is old. A small efficient unit in the central space where thermal mass collects anyway is just a method of increasing the ambient noise. I find myself going to bed because it’s too cold to be awake, not because i feel like sleeping. However, I normally use the fireplaces in winter (when there other people to keep warm), was giving it a try this year without fire. Never need to use the heatpump winters i have fire going 1 p/d. [the unit’s cooling is very welcomed and affects whole place though!]

[@01adaada29]

Seems like companies will struggle with those heat pumps for first 10-15 years until the system been understood by technicians getting used to maintaining and installing

[@gonnfishy2987]

A solid, professional install can make ALL the difference. There can almost be no end of things which will crap up over the lifespan if it’s not put in properly. Air handler location, outdoor location, ducted or not, integrity of the lines, the right gradient, proximity to roof/door/windows, available airflow+drainage (outdoor unit), maintenance performed vs maintenance “expected” ... the list goes on. “There are few donkey units, many donkey installs”! 😅

[@peterreid4567]

Surely it must of been fitted on a dirty system in the first place also did you flush th3 heating system

[@fredflintstone1428]

Why did it become so blocked? Old radiators? Until you know why it became blocked, I think you'll be re-visiting this job.

[@primarypro1627]

Great video, as usual, I think if the system has not been installed and cleaned correctly on retrofits, we are going to get a lot of blocked HX INTA make a leaver valve that fits straight onto the heat pump 1˝ Female swivel x 1˝ male flat face extended lever ball valve (HPBV11) 1 1/4˝ Female swivel x 1˝ male flat face extended lever ball valve ( HPBV114 ) This means you can disconnect the heat pump without getting air into the system Think these will be a godsend for installers and manufacturers going to warranty/fault calls in the future

[@myatix1]

It is great to see these videos and follow ups thanks for sharing!

[@DGT73]

Lack of servicing and pressure top ups diluting inhibitors?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Dirty vented system was converter to sealed, never flushed and left being constantly topped up for 2-3 years.

[@DavidAspden]

Glad you sorted it. But how did the manufacturer not spot this?

[@TheDickPuller]

He needs to get it sorted before he gets deported😂😂😂😂

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@TheDickPuller I really don’t want to get deported to Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 - imagine having to put right your push fit installed 😭😭😭

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Manufacturers engineer could fix it as I changed 1’’ connections on the heat pump to 1’’ 1/2 and he said they didn’t have sizes that big to connect to the unit !!! - true story - it’s all 28mm for those guys no matter the size of the unit !

[@adriancross4]

​@@UrbanPlumbersI'm fitting them ATM they send out a 1 1/2 to 1 reducer and 1" nipple

[@RaithUK]

Nice rescue on that HP HX plate.. that was utterly filthy lol

[@johntisbury]

Good result, well done for making the follow up video and troubleshooting the issue.

[@douglasmorris8364]

What blocked it in such a short time?

[@TheDcm50]

oh this is exciting, been waiting for the follow up!

[@KavanOBrien]

Not seen inside a heat pump unit would be nice if at some point if you could do that please , I’m curious to see what pump is used in the unit and looking at the dirty water that came out of the unit so what puzzled, it would imply there’s No filter within the unit. You are very knowledgeable within your field, also a charming soul.

[@deanchapple1]

Another great video. Why didn’t you (the manufacturer) just replace the plate heat exchanger?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

That’s requires degassing and re brazing. Probably cheaper to change the whole unit. As a matter of fact the manufacturers already swapped the unit once as the compressor died after a year running on such a dirty system

[@yensabi]

See how long it last’s before clogging again , badly designed unit I think...👍

[@paulsmith2931]

With something like the heat exchanger blocking, which will be a common problem going forward, especially on poorly installed/ not flushed systems, you would think manufacturers would make the hex easier to replace, especially considering the costs of these units new.

[@philipbrown2628]

Better tip out the sludge in all radiators or the heat exchanger will block again

[@EdthePlumber]

Would be useful to have a flow meter on the Powerflusher hose

[@langy1318]

Thought you'd give a victory parade around the house showing how everything was working perfectly.

[@adriancross4]

Been fitting grants for the last few months, fushed the system but hoping they arnt the new ferolli of tge heat pump world

[@tristambarden510]

Did you fully power flush the existing system prior to installing the new system? As a rule, I always flush existing systems.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Yes, this isn’t my install though. We just repaired existing system

[@SBBUK]

Why do you think the heat exchanger was so badly blocked in the first place - existing system not properly flushed at install time?

[@TheZippyMark]

It can only really be that, beyond it having a fault somewhere where the heating system is losing water and constantly being topped up, that really accelerates corrosion

[@BerlietGBC]

Brilliant, failure is not a option

[@markhoffman]

How much did the repair cost?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Flush was free of charge

[@normanboyes4983]

Good diagnostics. Dirty system and the plate heat exchanger is acting as a sediment trap. Sounds like the plate heat exchanger in the HP needs another heat exchanger in the plant room to isolate the dirty system from the HP.🤣

[@kolitha1]

Hi - really liked this video, and highlighted some of the concerns I have - we are about to sign on the line for a new ASHP (Grant Aerona 17kW) which I notices is the same one as in this video. Do you think this is a problem with the manufacturer, or was this just bad luck in this instance?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Installer not the units fault here. 17kw is very large - how big is your property and how well insulated ?

[@kolitha1]

@@UrbanPlumbers thanks for the quick response. (According to the EPC) The house is 232 m2. Built 1993, there is good loft insulation, and it is assumed that cavity walls are insulated (neither of these are in the EPC recommendations).

[@davelocktalk]

I can't understand why they don't fit these heat pumps in a south facing location? They always seem to fit them in shade?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Makes zero difference

[@davelocktalk]

@@UrbanPlumbers I don't believe that would need some science to back that up.

[@_Dougaldog]

@@davelocktalk Simplest logical answer is they work at night, so facing towards or shaded from direct Sunlight has no significant effect on them. They extract the heat from the air surrounding them using a super cooled refrigerant. One type used R32 Boils @ -52C :-)

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Just google it.

[@springtown24]

Manufacturer would blame the installer for not flushing the system properly before fitting the heat pump. This cannot be stressed enough and is necessary when replacing any type of boiler in either an existing system or even a new installation. The magnetic filter would also show that there is crossive deposits in the system. Unfortunately installers do not get paid for revising their work.

[@brianglobe1]

Very good job with the flush out, but I have one question why use cable tyes on the lagging this causes a thermal breach and is not best practice.

[@maxmerton]

It’s a minor point, but 2.4k “cubic metres” per hour? 😉

[@clarencecheng9214]

How can I PM you?

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Through my web site please

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Www.urbanplumbers.Co.uk

[@SuccessShared]

Hmm... this is the future? I'm sure every household can fix these simple issues. And exactly HOW MUCH space do you need for all this kit? Then there's the cost 😮😮😮😮😮😮

[@loving-plumbing]

Great result 👍🏻

[@Swwils]

I bet it just clogged up again as soon as your connected the whole system.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Pretty much what happened

[@Swwils]

@@UrbanPlumbers classic vented system rubbish!

[@paulmeynell8866]

Nice work

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

Everyone raves about heat pumps and yes they heat the house and work in the winter . everyone who has one installed reels of great cop figures and how warm it is and how much better than a combi boiler ect, but the question that is never answered is what is the payback? Same as solar! When do you get free electricity? Never get the answer.

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@@Cyberbobxxxx what the payback on your gas boiler?

[@eazyrat]

was it not flushed initially? you spend all that money on a heatpump install with no flush🤨

[@michaeld5888]

Great to see the good work you do but difficult to think that many houses have these massive utility rooms we tend to always see on youtube housing the plethora of control gear. It seems an extremely high level of expertise is needed to keep all this paraphanalia up and running compared to getting a gas boiler to work. This also without the pile of equipment for the solar fed batteries we will need when the power stations are closed down and the wind is either still or too fierce to run the grid. How much have these repairs and re-pipes cost the user on top of the original installation? I am glad I have a gas fire in the living room, a camping gas cooker and plenty of candles for the blackouts as highly unlikely these government plans have been joined up and costed. People cannot drive the diesels we were all told to buy for eco reasons from 2001 in to London now without a hefty charge or fine, it took until 2015 to realise it was a very bad idea. These schemes all seem to be based on pure dogma so I will steer clear of this technology. Keep up the good work though keeping this stuff up and running for those that can afford it.

[@mrraoulfrench]

FX 2 is the best..

[@GoatzombieBubba]

More like a geothermal heat pump, saying heat pump and most people will think of the ones that require a refrigerant and no water needed for it.

[@acegolfman3203]

Heat pumps don't last long imo. Good when it works but a year or 2 later you might be replacing it

[@radishpea6615]

That cabling looks a mess. We have our heat pump turned off the installation is so bad. I could do a better job! Earth wires not connected, one or more switched lives not connected when permanent lives are connected, many joints leaked, long pipe runs not required, messy wiring, ye gods and little fishes

[@dinkydaz6711]

Had one slower than a week in prison to reach reasonable temperatures massive radiators everywhere Water demand ok Good luck with the running costs and space for one

[@BenIsInSweden]

If it's slow to heat up then it wasn't set up correctly, it should come on and adapt to the outside temperature to maintain the desired indoor temperature. If you're using it like a boiler and waiting for the house to get cold before turning the heating on all the time then it will cost more to run. Letting it maintain the temperature inside with a setback when required would avoid both of those issues you state.

[@Jamie-x4c]

Heat pump installs are way too complicated. Too many things to go wrong

[@UrbanPlumbers]

They are actually very simple. Less to go wrong than with gas boilers actually.

[@Jamie-x4c]

Not in my experience as a professional electrician who’s had quite a few dealings with them

[@UrbanPlumbers]

@user-nj7zj7vh2c I guess your fridge is also complex and unreliable ?

[@Jamie-x4c]

@@UrbanPlumbers whatever you know best, you keep loving them. The rest of the industry know the truth

[@patterdalezipsuzilil]

Tell you wats wrong f.... heat pumps garbage get s gas boiler

[@amcluesent]

Nobody wants them!

[@AA-lc6yi]

🤡

[@UrbanPlumbers]

Yet I am booked solid for next 12 months installing them?