Heat pumps and COLD WEATHER 🥶🔥

In this video we are going to talk about heat pumps and how they fair up against cold climates. We'll explain common misconceptions and also provide guidance on how they work and what to expect if its your first time installing a heat pump.
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[@mattsnider5704]

Very informative video and channel. Thanks.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Thanks for watching! Glad it was helpful!

[@dillonpartin10]

I just put the gree flexx 3-ton unit in my centrally ducted house and it's working amazing in this cold winter near Chicago

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Great to hear! That’s awesome!!

[@jA-50n]

Thanks!

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Welcome!! Thank you 😁

[@maxwellsmart3156]

It would be nice if manufacturers would provide a temperature vs COP graph so a consumer can get an informed decision.

[@tfrosty22]

daikin does

[@GeeDeeBird]

Thanks for sharing. I'm curious. Our 1966 NM ranch style home has central heat, with the ducts run in the uninsulated slab. It's about 3000 SF, and there's a pretty serious temperature drop in the furthest bedrooms (and way too much heat in the nearest ones). We installed solar and an induction cooktop last year, and would like to go all-electric. Because we have lots of high windows, wall type mini-splits are less attractive. Do you think ceiling units would work, or should we just upgrade our central system and accept the inefficiency? Thanks again!

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Making a vid on this, thanks for the comment! Short answer is yes ceiling cassettes (assuming you mean cassettes) would work great and be a great option. Ducts in slab is not bad because the ground actually insulates pretty well, so a combo / VRV unit or just a basic central air system with one or two cassette / mini splits on a separate condenser would probably work well for you.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

And thanks for posting the comment… also by being on solar you’re definitely in a great position to be able to capitalize on the benefits of zoning with mini split / cassettes (assuming that’s what you mean by ceiling units) because you’ll be able to turn the central system down in parts of the home you’re not using when you sleep at night for example and can really target zone your heating and cooling. Plus inverter mini split heat pumps are very inefficient and consumer very little power

[@jeremyregnerus4681]

Looking to put a mini split in my garage for a golf simulator in West Michigan. The garage is about 855 sq. ft. with 11' ceilings; batt insulation in all the walls, only 2 windows and 3 insulated garage doors. The garage typically stays above freezing most of the winter. I'm not looking to install the unit for living space comfort. We'd like to be able to keep it around 65 when playing golf in the winter, and bring it down to around 75 when it gets in the 80s and 90s in the summer. I feel like I'm right between 18K units and 24K units, and there's a fairly big price jump. Thoughts on this type of application? Go for the larger unit to cover those really cold and hot days?

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Maybe on the 24k only because low ambient performance will degrade output… once a low ambient heat pump gets down below 0F it’s low ambient output tends to drop pretty substantially. To qualify as cold climate rated for the recent tax credit they only have to maintain 75% capacity at 5F. Idk how often your area of Michigan gets that cold but if it’s mostly above 10F (just checked the ten day in Lansing for example at 20F+ lows) then that 24k won’t struggle at all and will keep that space pretty comfortable. For what you’re trying to accomplish 18k would probably work too so I think you’ll be happy with either, normally the price jump isn’t that big from unit to unit but also depends on the brand specs

[@vampov]

Thanks to all your videos I splurged and got a Daikin Fit for our cold climate here in SLC. I'm excited to see how it performs. I also noticed the new Carrier Infinity 24 HP has some pretty sick cold climate numbers at 5F it would be interesting to hear your take on that unit.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Right on that’s great to hear! Yes I’m familiar with the carrier infinity model just not as much of the specific specs, SEER rating is impressive that’s for sure, I’ll look into it thanks for watching!

[@amkulas_11]

Very informative video! It definitely helped in the ongoing decision of choosing the right heat pump where there is approximately 50 days of the temperatures being below -20°C (but can also get as high as 37°C in the summer). Being in Canada, many of the brands carried in the US are available to here as well but there are also some other brands offered that will require further research on my end. We've had a few contractors say that side discharge heat pumps are less efficient overall compared to horizontal discharge units (the horizontal discharge units are also quite more expensive it seems). Do you have any opinions on this difference? And does this difference matter in a climate where there could be greater snow/debris accumulation? On the contrary does the orientation of the heat pump matter for temperatures around the 40°C mark? If you could help, that would be greatly appreciated. Looking forward to your reply!

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Hey that’s awesome thanks! Short answer is side discharge is common for low ambient heat pumps. One thing we’ve also started looking at is air to water products because these are better in colder temps too but you just have to ask about the COP ratings. Nordic is based in Canada and makes these types of heat pumps and they may be worth looking into. Side discharge heat pumps do fine at 40 C, it’s more manufacturer specific. Your contractor should know what will and won’t work based on the region but I would just ask if they know the COP ratings of the heat pump at lower temps because once they drop below a COP of 1.75, or significantly reduced capacity (below 60%) is when it’s going to switch over to backup heat. But cooling at 40C is no biggie, the DZ6 enhanced will work up to about 48/49 C (119F) which we get in Phoenix Arizona. 40C is hot but pretty normal

[@amkulas_11]

Thanks so much for the reply, definitely appreciate the information! We've had multiple contractors come to our house offering various brands and models of heat pumps. However referring back to this video we felt that it was essential to choose something that had multiple fan stages, and decent EER, SEER and COP ratings. One brand and model really popped out at us which was the Napolean WSEHV2436RA1-N 36,000 BTU unit. This is the exact same model as the Gree GUD36AH2/A-D(U). The EER/EER2 ratings are 11/10, the SEER/SEER2 ratings are 18/16 and the COP is listed as 3.5. The COP listed in the specs seems very general with no specific temperature correlating. However the governenment of Canada has released further information of various models and the tested COP at -15°C is listed as 1.8 with a capacity maintenace of 72% at the same temperature. Have you ever heard of these models and are these values pretty decent for the climate I had mentioned previously? I look forward to your insight!

[@lorenzovienna934]

Thank for the video. I had my furnace replaced 3 years ago and it was oversized. It countinued to over heat and shut off and turn back on right away. Ive had the technician out 7x now though out the install to try to fix. I was told by a different hvac tech that the has was tuned down to temporarily fix the over heating. Well now its in the negative cold snap here in Chicago and my heat cant keep up with the -10s and 20+degree windshield. Runs all night for few days stright sometimes dosent shut off. We went to bed and it was 74 degrees woke up and it was reading 68 degrees in the home. Had to buy a space heater to make it though last few days. Different techs who came out said the furnace installed was to large for my home. Also the return air duck was to small. They said the downstairs area could use a return because it dosen't have one. My question is, is this issue fixable and is the contract responsible for rectifying this problem with the correct size furnace. I have a warranty company that i use and they now said they aren't going to replace it, even though they admited to the contractor they used said the new units to big. My old furnace never had that problem before. Any recourse you can recommend be greatly appreciated.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

We teach our techs about sizing because it’s one of the most important things and we often replace systems that are the wrong so I wouldn’t be surprised… if it’s marginal then increasing return air via more supply duct runs or an added return can sometimes be enough, but if it was our installation our policy is to replace it if it’s the wrong size and was our mistake. That’s because we don’t like arguing with customers or trying to gaslight them and tell them everything is fine if it’s not. If it’s definitely the wrong size then give them the opportunity to replace it, because if you don’t and try to take them to court later after hiring a competitor to fix it they will say you didn’t give the company the opportunity to make it right. (Also sizing is easy, this can be verified easily with math and charts… supply ductwork should allow for enough airflow, you should have the proper delta t, etc and a load calc is easy to perform). But if the company refuses to replace it you can hire someone else and seek legal recourse at that point but it’s kind of a pain, that’s why dealing with them to make it right first is probably best especially if they’re willing to replace it. But if they’re not then you should get the right system from someone else and handle it that way. We’ve had customers have concerns about sizing and it’s because of bad information from competitors (we bid a 2 ton and the competitors bid a 4 ton… the 4 ton would never work properly in this example) so keep that in mind. Also, when it’s that cold out sometimes the house in general doesn’t keep up… at my house I’ll run the heat pump and boiler but if it’s -10F or colder it won’t get above 62 / 63 because we have so a lot of old windows and poor insulation. This is not uncommon, but if your old system kept up sounds like a bad install

[@9to5techs]

is goodman heat pump GSZB404210A good for north texas. Also, what would be the lowest temp before backup came on would you recommend.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

www.ecomfort.com/manuals/59d8436a3722ba5cef7b49166dc02b30.pdf Just check the performance chart idk how cold it gets but that’s a 14 seer single stage so it’s just a basic system. COP is ok but the capacity starts dropping below 47F… at 20F it’s 24K BTU

[@waterboy19788949]

Do inverter style heat pumps come with humidity control for shoulder seasons. This would be in conjunction with a ducted system.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Short answer is yes and they vary in application. Most have a dehumidify run mode option

[@walnutcontractors5661]

Trying to figure out best option to improve efficiency of a 1985 4 stage natural gas 1 million BTU boiler. In Pacific Northwest so temps are 45F for most of the winter. I am thinking a monoblock air to water heat pump could at least pre-charge water before being delivered to the boiler. Electrical service is minimal though so need to determine how many amp. Currently have 3 proterra hybrid heat pumps with a 180k btu gas water heater doing the hot water. What kind of COP do you see at the 45F mark? Just trying to ball park money efficiency vs natural gas btu. Natural gas prices have been in retreat the last year so quite a different story than 1-2 years ago. Thanks for the videos !

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Monoblock could work but idk that’s its worth it just to preheat the water. From a cost perspective still might be an expensive replacement

[@walnutcontractors5661]

@@TheHVACDopeShow ​ I can get the MONOBLOC V4 5T - GRS-CQ16PD/NHG3-D for ~$13,000 plus installation. That will do 55,000 btu of heating. Just need to figure out the COP and monthly average temperature during heating season and then figure out ele cost vs natural gas cost per btu. Pretty sure I don't have enough ele capacity to install 10 of them without a hydro upgrade but should be able to do 1 to start. Can't use the cooling and only heating 7-8 months of the year so payback might be longer than hpwts. Also not sure how long to expect the 1985 boiler ( Hydrotherm mr-1200b ) to last.

[@patrickvaughan395]

Have learned a lot from your videos! We have a very small home (900 sq ft) in Moscow, ID, switching over from old gas forced air furnace to a dual fuel heat pump (to get central A/C, use less gas, maybe obtain some efficiency savings). Good energy audit and inspection from an area HVAC co. They offered us quotes on either a 2 ton Daikin FIT or 2 ton Daikin VRV Life. We're leaning to VRV because works to lower winter temps that we can experience here. Noticed that this model (RXSQ24TVJU) isn't in production any more. Would that be a problem for us going forward? As far as future servicing and maintenance...? Also unfortunately this particular VRV doesn't qualify for tax credit in our area, even though it has very good efficiency ratings. Maybe that is because of disconnect with inverter type systems qualifying for inflation reduction act tax credits that you mentioned in another video(?). Thanks again for sharing your expertise to help make us better educated consumers.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Our pleasure glad you’re enjoying them! Although the VRV works to lower temps technically, it’s at roughly 65% capacity at -10F I believe depending on the unit, so I think either the enhanced or the VRV would work. You’ll have backup heat too I assume? If your insulation is good you should be fine with either system 95+% of the time (idk how cold Moscow/ID gets) but that shouldn’t be an issue

[@ashlyknapp1798]

please open a store in Seattle! Our world needs more like you to explain technology

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

I’ll see what we can do! 😁 Thanks for the comment!

[@dancarlson4913]

Hi. Do you have a recommendation for an efficient cold climate heat pump where only heat is needed. Like the mountains of Colorado where we never need AC. I have propane heat and would like to reduce propane usage. Thanks

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Heat pump will always do cooling too because it’s an AC by default. Anything cold climate rated / Mitsubishi h2i, Daikin OTerra mini split / atmosphera too are good. Are you doing mini split or central air? Lots of ways you can do it…

[@davidparker7156]

we have a camp 3 hours away that we heat in the winter just to keep water lines from freezing. We have electric baseboard heat and want to move to a mini-split cold climate heat pump. if temps drop below the heat pumps min rating will it automatically shut off and in which case baseboard will kick in and will the heat pump also resume automatically. if there is a power outage will the heat pump turn on once power is back on. also there is no wifi network in this location.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Depends on the unit but normally yes on the power outage. Also some units have the ability to hard wire a 2 wire analog thermostat to override the remote control so when it comes back on it will be getting an analog reliable signal and not matter that the power was lost. This is not a bad idea, there’s several cold climate heat pumps that would work for this and go down as low as -10 / -20F

[@user-dq6hk5fz4q]

What is your opinion on heat pump for in floor heating such as warmboard type system. Can that pump also serve well for cooling? Any idea who is a quality heat pump installer for a new build in Grand Junction

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

I can ask around for grand junction, not 100% sure but as far as a heat pump for hydronics are you asking about something like the Daikin Altherma? If so all I know is there’s not a lot of options in the US for these types and I inquired with distributors about them and they’re mostly special order… I’ll see if there’s a local contractor in Grand Junction I can refer you too and what options they might have. Big thing to consider with something special order like that is that parts availability becomes more difficult (meaning waiting for parts to come in) until it’s mainstream in your area. If you have backup heat it’s not critical but I’ll see what I can find out because honestly heat pump water heaters are very efficient and if they started incorporating these into radiant applications in the US (maybe they have already and I’m just not aware) then these would actually work well for radiant flooring systems because radiant floors operate at a lower temp similar to domestic hot water temps (120-140). Radiant floors technically call for a max supply temp of 130. Will keep you posted on a grand junction referral, thanks!

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

maps.app.goo.gl/gPfR9VQ7BC6YBP5y6?g_st=ic Aaron Cooley / Cooleys Heating and cooling in Hotchkiss, CO Referred to me by my Daikin rep, looks like they have great reviews too! Not sure if you’ve reached out to them already but hopefully that helps 😁

[@user-dq6hk5fz4q]

thanks much.

[@kiprichards2543]

I’m looking to replace my 10 year old Geothermal system in my home with an dual fuel system of heat pump as the primary and heat strip as the secondary. What are your thoughts on this system in efficiency and cost to run? I live in Idaho so we do get very cold I’m the winters at times.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

It’s efficient but being in a cold climate a furnace backup would be a true dual fuel, technically electric backup is not really a secondary fuel it’s still electric. But if your heat pump is “cold weather” and qualifies for the tax credit like the Daikin Fit enhanced for example, it will keep up down to 5 - 10F before needing to switchover to electric or furnace backup. This all depends on the load / insulation in your house as well. If you want to reduce the load on your space I’ve seen insulating / siding drop people’s heating demands in half. We have a customer with a VRV in Boulder and although the average lows are 15~20, we get subzero temps and the system works well down to about -10F because his home is so well insulated.

[@khoatran4841]

you shouldnt need electric backup heat if you're using geothermal. it's probably the sales guy adding more parts to make more commission.

[@sandiego22tnt]

What's your opinion of ducted heat pumps in Southern California?

[@johnzach2057]

Nothing can beat a self installed mini split in price

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Ducted heat pumps are great for socal, depends on what part of socal you’re in and the climate because if you’re concerned at all with noise a daikin fit is our favorite “best bang for your buck” AC, but you don’t need anything with low ambient ratings in socal so the main benefit will just be efficiency.

[@user-vx4vw2su7p]

In the Detroit area, gas is the way to go. Electric cost here are some of the highest in the country. Since installing my heat pump, my electric bills have increase 41-55 percent. AND we are having a mild winter.....

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Yikes sorry to hear that, what are you electric rates out of curiosity? Is it an inverter heat pump? I would make sure the electric backup heat isn’t kicking in more than necessary because that can have that effect. Not sure if adding solar panels is an option to offset that but might be worth it if that’s the case with an inverter / cold climate heat pump.

[@jamesrunions4553]

I have a goodman heat and cool pump and I'm wondering if i should switch over the emergency heat in single digits and negative temperatures.

[@MacGyver2154]

Is the outside unit freezing up ? If it works pray for warm weather.

[@jamesrunions4553]

@@MacGyver2154 its not freezing up or anything, i just don't wanna burn it up by running it to death. Its -2°F with 8" inches of snow outside and 75°F inside. Its defrosting good, there's no ice on top or inside the unit. In 2015 it kept the house at 74°F with it being -22°F outside with 28" inches of snow. But it ran nonstop of 3 days. I really don't wanna buy a another unit because of users error. That why's i'm asking about the shutdown temperature, to start using the electric heat.

[@MacGyver2154]

@@jamesrunions4553 you should be good, I am in similar position. 2 degrees in north Mississippi but too many defrosting cycles that didn't drain away and now the outside unit is too frozen. Trying to get propane heaters going. In the morning I will try to put hot water to melt the ice.

[@jamesrunions4553]

@@MacGyver2154 we're at 2,200' feet in the mountains of eastern Kentucky, on the Tennessee, Virginia border. I hate this time of year because of the cold. I'm gonna buy a wood stove this year and have it 90°F in the house on nights like this. The coldest that i've seen it here was -28°F, the inside of the back door was white with frost.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

You can do that it just depends on the heat pump, what model # is it? Because if it’s designed for low ambient operation it should do that on its own but if it’s not doing well in cold weather switching over to electric heat at a higher switchover temp is a better bet. It just depends on the COP (coefficient of performance) and each model has a chart of its performance based on the temps outside. Once the COP drops below 1 you are better off with electric heat, and normally the switchover temp is somewhere around a COP of 1.5 or so.

[@marcb9612]

Good video. I'm located in Prince George, BC Canada and considering installing a Lennox SL25XPV heat pump (Dave Lennox series variable speed inverter, low ambient of -4F rating) with a dual fuel system of my existing Lennox SLP99V (99% efficient variable speed) as in my region they have a $6000cdn rebate but with only certain paired configurations. I already have the communicating Lennox S30 thermostat. Right now natural gas in our region is quite a bit cheaper than electricity however we have a carbon tax on the natural gas which is set to go up every year till 2030 when they are saying they will ban the sale of natural gas furnaces. Our region can see lows of -40C/F but average is probably -5C to -10C with some warming periods around freezing. Any thoughts on the Lennox heat pumps and would you always install under the eaves of the house for maximum protection from snow storms? I have a hot tub concrete pad that I could use but is about 10'f from the house and power is already there, otherwise would put it on a wooden deck with rubber isolators, Lennox does sell a snow cover hood. Thinking if the costs get too much to run the heat pump can always turn off in winter and just run natural gas furnace.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

That sounds like a good plane although you want the condenser close to the house. People use concrete ultralight pads (foam filled) so putting in a pad isn’t a big deal and you don’t need isolators that condenser is quiet. Being under the eve isn’t important but it’s more about being close to the house otherwise that lineset will be tripped over / damaged, and you don’t want to run it underground. Besides that it sounds like a good plan, I’d see what other systems qualify because some of the low ambient products go down to -20F or colder.

[@marcb9612]

@@TheHVACDopeShow ok thanks for the reply, the spot on my wooden deck is the closest to my mechanical room, straight shot thru shed attached to house maybe about 8' wide, the lines could be run up against exterior house/shed wall so they don't get damaged, but still inside enclosed shed for protection from exterior elements. My wooden deck is about 6" off the ground so perhaps the best solution is to modify the deck so can put in a small concrete pad. Will have to look into foam filled concrete. As for units with my furnace I am only approved for 3 Lennox models, the Dave Lennox variable capacity, Lennox elite variable capacity and Lennox mid efficient single stage units. I like your KZbin content in that I can tell your honest and offer great advise :)

[@frankturner5538]

I live in an apartment and the owner just had a heat pump installed for my heating and air conditioning. Since it’s winter, I have it automatically set however when the temperature reaches to the desired temp set, it constantly runs. Is this normal?? Thanks for your prompt response

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

The fan constantly runs on the inside unit or the outdoor unit? You will get longer run times in normal operation, depending on how you have it set. Is this a mini split ductless or a central air / forced air unit? It will normally hit set point and shut off after an overshoot of 1 degree or so depending on the system and how it’s setup… mine has a 2 degree dead band so if it’s set at 70 it won’t kick on until 68, and won’t shut off until 72. This is an efficiency feature to prevent short cycling.

[@frankturner5538]

@@TheHVACDopeShow It constantly runs on the inside even though set to auto… not sure about the mini split question as this is not my expertise

[@trustbuster23]

In my experience, dual fuel isn't going to save you huge money. The difference between extremely efficient use of expensive electricity, and less efficient use of cheaper natural gas isn't quite a wash, but it does mean it will take you a while to earn back that higher up front investment. But it does have a huge quality of life benefit that really isn't talked about enough. Natural gas heat dries out everything, it is so hard to keep the house comfortably humidified if you are running 100% natural gas, even if you do have a whole house humidifier. We eventually got a supplemental big console humidifier which had to be constantly filled, cleaned, etc. all winter long to keep the air reasonably comfortable, when we were running all gas. Switching over to mostly heat pump heat has meant the whole house humidifier can now easily keep up and we don't even run that second humidifier any more. That is a major quality of life improvement. And I am probably running 90-95% heat pump these days. It really has to get to where the high for the day is in the high 20s before I will give it a break and push the button to let the gas furnace handle things. The heat pump can technically keep up even then, but it starts to have long duty cycle times and there is no reason to push the equipment that hard if you don't need to. The other time you want gas is when you have been away and the house is 50 degrees, gas warms up the house when it is really cold noticeably faster.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

All great comments and very valid points!

[@khoatran4841]

depending on the type of gas, propane or natural gas. propane costs more, i have converted my uncle's LP furnace to dual-fuel and he's saving at least $400/month in the winter (approx 5 months long). he's glad he took my advice to convert it in 2021, and im an hvac mechanic so he only had to pay for parts and $1000 on labor. And my old company let me use their account to purchase Carrier equipments at contractor's pricing, all of my aunts and uncle have new Carrier infinity systems in 2021 ($3000-3500 a set).

[@davidriaboy6618]

What heat pump would you recommend in Ontario Canada?

[@JB-wr2lx]

Wood stove ?

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Dual Fuel if anything. Gree Flex advertises very low ambient temps, better than Daikin in that respect but I would want backup heat when it gets frigid there.

[@user-ss8dk2bl1i]

Senville aura made in Canada grate for cold climate

[@feb29th2008]

Very informative. I have a GE heat pump. I find that it calls for backup heat at -10C. We recently went through a cold spell down to -10, and it could not keep up. The installer says that there is no issue with the machine. I have asked for a second opinion. I also run a Daikin and it ran fine through our the cold.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Thanks I’m glad you found it helpful. Sorry to hear your GE isn’t keeping up, out of curiosity is that just a basic single stage system? Because if so usually the COP ratings aren’t great on those but if you have a model number you / contractor can check the COP chart and determine the best switchover temp. -10C isn’t terribly cold for a heat pump so I’m surprised it was struggling

[@fluxcapacitor8416]

hello sir pls help my heating pump was on while renovating the kitchen i have central air vents in the kitchen does the vents sucks the dust in the kitchen and spread in the house?tnx

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Yes it will definitely collect the drywall dust / renovation dust. Duct cleaning would probably be a good idea and definitely change the filter!

[@fluxcapacitor8416]

@@TheHVACDopeShow thanks i did not know the vents from where the cold air blows sucks air..i thought the return ducts suck the air which is located on my attic room

[@MonteVanNortwick]

It is 9 deg F right now as I am watching this video

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Nice!

[@djmorgan8783]

I'm going to be receiving a manufactured home from Fleetwood Manufacturing and it will be installing in Central Illinois I told them I would like a heat pump system but I haven't been told what system they're going to use

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

I would ask for an inverter or if you don’t like what they’re putting in just hire a local contractor when you’re doing to put in the one you want.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

They might give you a good one just ask for model number or tell them what you want… anything that is a cold climate inverter will probably be ok but I’d prefer a side discharge system like the Rheem or Daikin fit or Trane resolute products in your climate

[@djmorgan8783]

I think before I decided with a heat pump the outside unit was going to be a train that maybe still the case

[@jean-marcfiliatrault266]

Hi! Let’s assume the heat pump you referenced, i.e. the Maine Heat Pump, for example, is the best in the World… However, One needs to make sure that the heat pump you select for your house is sold in your neck of the woods. There’s no point in getting a heat pump no body knows how to install nor maintain… The problem, as usual, is that installers get a “kick back” by focusing/selling only one brand of heat pump… As do insurance agents and Financial planners… Just saying…😮

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Agreed you definitely want coverage for the product line you’re buying. I’ve heard of no name or newer brands of heat pumps and yes I would be a little wary if there’s not good support in your area! We don’t get a kickback unfortunately though we’re not famous enough for Daikin I guess😂😭😭😭 lol

[@ozzy4654]

I feel like i have information overload. WSHP vs ASHP for my home. 2500sqft home, currently on 5yr old 80% gas furance and 20yr old ac 3.5ton system thats dying. Also our gas water heater is 10+ yrs old too. So I was thinking maybe WSHP for DHW just too many options etc... We are in chicago, However i see WSHP that say its rated for -30F from Apollo etc.... not sure what would be the best for our home.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Chicago can get cold but as long as you have backup heat via a heat kit or furnace you’ll be ok with either. I’m honestly not as familiar with water source heat pumps outside of what we see in condos when the air handler has the heat pump coil built into the air handler and the coil itself is connected to a central chiller or boiler so it’s like a forced air hydronics combo. If this is for a single family detached residence I would just make sure the WSHP comes with a decent warranty from the manufacturer and the contractor you are hiring. I wish I could be of more help on the WSHP

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Also at that age the furnace isn’t that old but most high efficiency heat pumps will need a matching paired furnace to maximize efficiency depending on what route you’re going. Hopefully that’s helpful if you have other questions lmk!

[@crazyhandshands9028]

I'll never ever get one garbage you don't save your loss.

[@Pierceb2]

A high end cold weather heat pump like Daikin’s you show should be able to do all the heating needs for the home. Dual Fuel is a disservice to the customer who’s heat pump was commissioned properly with correct setting in the smart communicating thermostat. The most efficient heat pump use is running low and slow, set it and forget it. The example of dropping the temp to 55 F while you are away and then turning it up to 70 when you walk in the door is a failure to understand and use the heat pump in the most cost efficient way bases on the science and the kWh hours usage. Also dual fuel is a crutch and will cost the user more in the cost of capitol equipment and fuel costs. Better to address the envelope of the house if heat loss is excessive. The cost of this equipment installed is high with only a 15 year shelf life. Do customers really want to replace heat pump and alternative fuel system every 15 years at say 20 to 35k plus domestic hot water costs for equipment and fuel too. Top of the line cold climate heat pump and Solar electric is the best way to go so you lock in your fuel cost for 25/years or mpre. In worst case scenario add a heat strip to the heat pump system for the few times a year you can’t get the heat you think you need for comfort. See the Maine Heat Pump study results on KZbin or the NEEP Videos on KZbin. These heat pumps are used in the Nordic Counties, Northern Japan, China with no need for dual fuel. Some 11:40 Scandinavian users on KZbin will attest to how well they work etc.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

I’m not familiar with that model but will have to check it out! The Electric heat strips use 7x the amount of energy so as long as the heat pump can keep up for the majority of the use case it’s a good option but dual fuel still makes sense for some people or at least some people are more comfortable with having furnace backup… I think by the time the next replacement cycle occurs (in 20 years assuming install today) the equipment and tech will be widely different. Thanks for the thoughtful post!!

[@khoatran4841]

correct! no heating systems can be efficient and/or properly heating a home that keeps losing heat thru insufficient insulations. properly insulated is a must if the homes were built prior to 2003/2011.

[@Nebzz]

My gas furnace works every day no matter the temp, so why are heat pumps being pushed?

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Decarbonization/green movement… I’m with you lol, if you are in a place where electric is cheaper they can be a better choice. Emissions from natural gas are actually very low by comparison with old systems and energy sources but it’s just case by case. It makes a lot of sense for people on solar. We have customers with no electric or gas bill year round, and customers completely off grid (propane is expensive) so it’s a no brainer from a practical perspective for some of them

[@jesseimus976]

Have a friend that switched over from oil to a heat pump over this last summer. Unfortunately, we are having a really cold few days (15 degrees). My fiends house will not heat up past 50 degrees. Nothing heats up a home like gas at 1/3 the cost vs heat pumps. If you like Luke warm air, go with a heat pump. If you like to feel a blast of hot air at 1/3 the cost go with gas.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

It sounds like an install issue, or undersized, or switchover wasn’t set for the right temp? Because it should switch over to backup heat once it stops keeping up. We normally set switchover to backup heat between 0 and 15F depending on how it’s sized. Have a heat pump at my house that keeps up when the boiler gas boiler doesn’t so it sounds like it needs to be checked out because it should be keeping up. Hopefully they didn’t put in a single stage basic heat pump because those won’t do well in cold weather normally.

[@brightonshores]

I live as far south in Ontario that I can at my latitude[north shore of lake Ontario,] SOUTH of many parts of NY/Vermont/Maine/new Hampshire/Wisconsin etc -30c is NORMAL here in winter even -40c at times, so you're way off on locations where supplemental heat is needed, ALL of Canada needs to use supplemental heat [our govt is only giving rebates on ELECTRIC heat pumps], when ppl could use their existing 95% gas/propane furnaces....huge cash grab!!!! yes.... I've been in the HVAC business over 30yrs lol

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Coastal Canada is warmer like Vancouver, average temps are above 32F / 0C for the lows… Toronto gets -10c which a heat pump can handle but I know that there are colder temps. So dual fuel doesn’t get a rebate in Canada ? That’s kind of dumb lol wow, didn’t know that.

[@jadoyon]

Heat pumps are just not efficient in a cold climate. We generate power by burning natural gas, at something like 40% efficiency, then we transmit it to houses with some transmission loss, then we use the electricity for a heat pump that isn't efficient below 30 degrees. It is MUCH more efficient just to burn that gas in the house and have 100% of the energy heat the house. A hybrid system makes sense. But a pure heat pump only in cold is stupid.

[@joe3276865536]

Your point about methane being more cost-effective once you cross below a certain temperature is correct. But that temperature is not 30 degrees. The COP on modern systems is still being decent down to the teens if not lower. And, of course, the cutoff will depend on methane and electricity prices in your area.

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

I agree with most of what you’re saying, Technically 100% of the heat energy from natural won’t reach the house, 93-98% will based on the combustion process in a high efficiency / condensing furnace. High efficiency Heat pumps can operate at 400% or more efficiency (by comparison with electrical input) so you have to look at the conversion cost to electric, then to heat via thermodynamics through a heat pump to get a like for like… sometimes it’s a wash or close but often times for us it makes more financial sense to run. Especially when you throw solar panels on your roof. But you’re correct and that’s a very astute observation, a lot of people overlook it. The heat pumps we use are efficient (not Derated) down to 0 or -10F depending on the model so low ambient / inverter heat pumps make a lot more sense than a single stage stuff. Thanks for watching and thanks for the comment!

[@user-xr8ru5db6x]

This guy never gets to the POINT, talks about various video's and the various SEEP etc, just get to the POINT !!

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

No kidding, You should hear him in morning meetings!

[@hansgruber2509]

This guy is full of crap just pitching his Daikin brand. They do work but very poorly and at higher cost than a gas furnace

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

Depends on the region, your electric rate vs. gas, and the COP of the heat pump… if you’re in northern Montana this is probably true, but in Colorado we install them all the time and the good ones are cheaper to run than gas furnaces

[@TheHVACDopeShow]

But the blanket statement you made isn’t true… you have to dive into the data and unit specifics and look at the bill on a case by case basis, thanks for the comment!

[@hansgruber2509]

@@TheHVACDopeShow Well prove me wrong with real data, including cost of the system and the alternate gas furnace option. Talk is cheap we need real numbers

[@hansgruber2509]

@@TheHVACDopeShow Ok back it up with facts. For the Colorado system present the COP numbers vs. Temp and cost of system and estimated installation costs. Do the same for the gas furnace. Let's see who's wins.

[@walnutcontractors5661]

@@hansgruber2509 I installed 3 heat pump hot water tanks to replace a 180k btu gas hot water tank. Cut the gas bill by 20%. Electric bill moved up a little but not much. Heat pumps can definitely save you money but it does depend on gas cost, electric cost and the air temps of your city. I have 4 years of gas bill data using Gjs and 4 years of electric bills for kWhs. I also have temperature data to see that it isn't just a milder winter but so far just 1 year of data with heat pumps working. The best compare point was a 20% drop ( other months were more and others were maybe a bit less ).