Heat Weapons, Zeons Iconic Melee Weapon - Gundam Lore

[@NyaaIxia]

If i remember correctly, the reason on Dom units use heat saber and not other MS is the lack of special receptacle that the heat saber requires (the place where Dom stores the heat saber on its back) and most Zaku units cant provide enough power from their reactor to heat the weapon, hence the lack of Zaku units using heat saber

[@scorpionvenom27]

So less weapon = less power required

[@NyaaIxia]

@@scorpionvenom27 Thats why most Zeon OYW suits stick to ballistic weaponry (machineguns and bazookas). Even the Zaku 1 Sniper had to haul external generator for its beam sniper. During later months of the war only Gelgoog managed to field beam weaponry on a mass scale, but it was too late.

[@Arkeo36]

The Zaku II high mobility surface type does use a heat saber. But it also has a higher output generator than a normal Zaku II as well.

[@xenon3990]

Kcylia may be a complete psycho and idiot later in the war, but her insistence on developing anti MS weapons before the war even started because she foresaw the federation would get MS done before the wars end was pure genius.

[@slothcakes]

She had some good ideas through the war too bad her faults overshadow them. She started spiraling downwards after garma died and m'quve being m'quve did not help

[@xenon3990]

@@slothcakes yea, the fact she even held onto that buffoon single handedly cost them the entire war (Ramba ral not getting his doms, which leads to his death which allows the gundam to make it to jaburo and prevent the assault)

[@slothcakes]

He unintentionally helped the federation so much they should award him as a war hero

[@ZeonicFenrir]

@@slothcakes You couldn't be more wrong about M'Quve though: For starters, the Gundam 0080 the OVA Movies film comics essentially indicate that M'Quve was the father of Zeon's United Maintenance Plan: "The United Maintenance Plan was drafted by M'Quve and others under Kycilia's command. Commander M'Quve, who was an expert in material supply and logistics, had been pointing out inefficiencies in mobile suit production since before the war began. Even Vice Admiral Dozle Zabi, who had initially ignored his reports, could no longer deny these facts. With Kycilia's support, M'Quve immediately put the plan into operation. M'Quve's reforms were comprehensive. He summoned the heads of each mobile suit development project to his office, and ordered them to implement the plan regardless of their current state of progress. M'Quve's office was furnished with trained soldiers and scrupulously maintained small arms. Although there was considerable opposition to his orders, thanks to this effective persuasion, the plan was ultimately put into effect. ... Once the standardization of the production lines was completed, the rest of the work proceeded quite quickly. The technical knowhow which was previously retained by each individual project was shared, and mobile suits from different series adopted each other's technology. The flood of new mobile suits that rolled out during the later stages of the One Year War were purely a result of this United Maintenance Plan. Although the plan itself had not been thoroughly considered, and M'Quve's "persuasion" had contributed to the problem of assigning responsibility, it could be said that the results were dramatic..." www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=14309 Also, the supplemental materials from the 08th MS Team DVD includes several clips, one in particular being about Operation Odessa, which describes that M'Quve kept sending shipments of resources to Zeon even while the battle was underway and that he didn't evacuate the base until the last HLV with resources took off. M'Quve's confidence on the resources he sent allowing Zeon to fight for another 10 years weren't exaggerations either, as Haman's Axis/Neo Zeon was the most well supplied Neo Zeon movement, mass producing several machines made with Gundarium Gamma alloy, including 3rd generation units like the Gaza D (which unlike the Gaza C did had a proper movable frame that didn't break after 5 transformations) and even 4th generation models like the Doven Wolf. The Minaret (treasure of the Zabi family) and the idea that the EF didn't retake Pezun until 0081 also point in that direction.

[@DIEGhostfish]

​@ZeonicFenrir While Logistics win wars, M'Quve is one of those cases that shows you can't just let the logistics nerds run everything. M'Quve is petty, factional, and fundamentally untrustworthy, which manifests in his assumption that everyone else is just as much an untrustworthy rat as he is, thus seeing Ral as more of an enemy than the White Base. If say, Yuri had been in charge of the actual fighting and M'Quve kept in his corner to use his skills to their fullest, things would have gone smoother. (Gihren's Greed/Ambition does generally say even with thr Doms Ral only captures the Whitebase and lesser mobile suits, with the Gundam or at least its core fighter and data making it to Revil. I don't know if the game models Artesia ending up as Ral's POW and the resulting political fallout of that.)

[@Markosinkpen117]

You know? This could have been effective for IBO's universe and probably cooler than a big solid club or blade.

[@poofsplix2003]

Yea it would've been pretty cool to see the barbatos mace heat up and just completely melt some poor guy

[@slothcakes]

Am surprised they didn't go that route. we could have gotten a heat chainsaw which would have been the coolest thing possible

[@gamerdude7576]

​@@slothcakes to be fair we did get the wrench mace that had a built in chainsaw in the head of the weapon and it practically killed Carta which was a net positive outcome.

[@slothcakes]

that was my favorite weapon of his so dumb in all the coolest ways

[@gamerdude7576]

@@slothcakes me personally, gotta love the extra large mace and the hashmall's tail blade, that thing had wicked movements and a brutal screaming metal sound when it deployed, really helped to complete the lupus rex's look.

[@cwillson9848]

Lol the timing on this recommendation it's too perfect. I am just started making a human size heat hawk replica. Thanks man for the easy info.

[@slothcakes]

Sounds sick, best of luck

[@user-ud8zy2dv1k]

the gundam exia and it's later replacements actually use the 00 universes equivalent to heat weapons. its just that instead of actually heating up the blade, gn particles were used to coat the blade in a layer to act like a giant beam saber, with a physical blade within the beam. later the 'transparent' blades of the 00 quanta and exia repair used that transparent material to expel those gn particles directly from the blade as opposed to having a vent somewhere on the blade itself, making them better at cutting via heat.

[@nicodalusong149]

No, GN blades are solidified beam sabers as they use GN particles as you said. The 00 equivalent to heat weapons are the vibro weapons the Enact and Union Flags use. You know, the Sonic blade?

[@user-ud8zy2dv1k]

@@nicodalusong149 at their base, heat blades and beam sabers use the same concept. impart enough heat into the target via a melee ranged attack to melt the target into separate parts. the difference is that heat weapons use a physical blade with elements to radiate heat from the blade itself, while beam sabers instead use a contained high temperature plasma/particles. since the exia series of gundams has physical blades, as in even when turned off they still function as blades and have mass and solid material in their cutting edges, they are closer to heat weapons than to beam sabers, despite the use of gn particles.

[@nicodalusong149]

@@user-ud8zy2dv1k Yes and no. Let's just go with that because it's a mix of both really. But from a technological stand point, the equivalent is still the Sonic blade. A beam saber is still more advanced than either one in their respective universes.

[@riptors9777]

The heat hawk initially was also used with great success against the EFs space based capital ships. (Infact most of the early weapons that would perform poorly against actual MS like the zaku machinegun where mainly built with anti ship combat in mind) Getting in close and smashing in the command bridge of a salamis was a good way of getting rid of it since its AA turrets would not be able to track a MS target that close to its hull. As for the in universe reason why Zeon was using heat weapons: The same reason they initially didnt use beam weapons... their MS reactors werent strong enough to support a beam weapon. Beam weapons need Minovsky particles to function (as in they literally used these particles as projectiles/form a blade) and the Reactors of the earlier Zeon MS where allready using all the particles they could produce for energy generation, so none left to spare to feed into a beam saber or using beam weaponry (Hence why the Gundam being able to use a beam rifle was such a big deal to Zeon pilots like Char initially). Heat on the other end can simply be generated by electricity, and with the physical force behind a Melee attack from an MS could easaly cut even through thick layers of armor or concrete.

[@novaeye6081]

12:42 “when I joined the corps we didn’t have any fancy-schmancy tanks. we had sticks! two sticks and a rock for a hole platoon and we had to share the rock!” - Sgt. Johnson

[@MaverDick12]

IRC The name of the Dom also comes from something Kendo related. It's just a giant Kendo player.

[@anime-mun]

I am pretty sure they are made of a titanium-ceramic composite similar to the undercoating of most atmospheric craft such as space shuttles and the like due to their ability to conduct and resist heating. At least the edges are because its cheaper and easier to replace the edge than it would be to replace the entire weapon. This is why the Heat Hawk looks the way it does. To understand how this would work I recommend looking at neopixel custom lightsabers and how they work. Its a similar connection concept.

[@slothcakes]

That would make sense thank you also will check out the neopixel sounds very interesting

[@ttuzo9621]

I think Heat dagger is easy to carry around and can equip multiple of them. The development of heat weapon can be still traced on Jupiter War which is also carried by Crossbone Gundam(by the way mostly cause it's cool and it can attached to chain for the limited range attack IRC) . It still may have some use as off-hand, especially when you suddenly lose the saber in the fight, you can still stab with its knife.

[@henryfleischer404]

Re: Tungsten heat weapons- having worked with Tungsten electrodes while Tig welding, they would not work well as a weapon. Tungsten tends to oxidize and smoke when hot, so in atmosphere the heat weapons would leave a trail of smoke and would very rapidly decay. It's also surprisingly fragile, somehow both brittle enough to crack and malleable enough to tear. In general, I'd say some kind of already oxidized ceramic would be ideal, but my very limited knowledge of material science tells me that most heat-resistant ceramics are very brittle.

[@nicodalusong149]

The heat rod isn't just heat but electric. The purpose was to specifically kill the enemy pilot and short the MS. The heat was there to allow it to cut since it's supposed to be a whip. Late UC upgrades the heat rod to heat strings which Zanscare MS used. Same purpose but now there are more of them. The Epyon, Aquarius, Tallgeese III and Scorpio just double down on the whip and heat elements of the heat rod. There are cold weapons too. The main example is the Gundam Sandleon's Hi-Cold Shotels. Yes, eventually, physical weapons were treated with Anti-Beam Coating so they could clash with beam sabers.

[@ZeonicFenrir]

That's not quite correct: the weapon you are referring to, the ZM-S06S Zoloat's beam string emitter, do uses a physical wire as its basis, but does seem to function as a beam weapon in practice. On the other hand, in the same series we also see the ZM-S20S Jabaco, which has actual heat rods as its trademark equipment. The icing on the cake is the ZM-S22SC Rig Show used by the imperial Guards, which has both beam string emitters and what seems to be a heat rod-like weapon simply called "metal whip". I should also point towards the MS-08TX/N Efreet Nacht, which is said to use both a "cold katana" and "cold kunais". The name is meant to contrast with heat weapons, since they are meant to be avoid heat detection (the Efreet Nacht meant as a stealth unit) and instead seem to use electrical discharges. Lastly, anti-beam coating had limited success for a long time: during the OYW only the Gelgoog's zulu shield used it, and it could only block a beam that struck it at an angle (hence its curved shape). By U.C. 0087 the Hyaku Shiki and Zeta Gundam 3B Type (From Gundam Evolve) use it, but with the noticeable caveat that both units have a very notorious golden paint scheme, which is result of that being the color of the most effective version of anti-beam coating at the time, which is said to evaporate after taking a few hits in the same spot. The fact that we don't see more MS with golden paints schemes or or at least golden shields during this era suggest that it was also not widely available.

[@nicodalusong149]

@@ZeonicFenrir I was debating with myself as to whether or not I should have mentioned the Cold weapons of the Nacht since they aren't that kind of cold (compared to heat weapons) and use electricity instead. Yeah the Beam strings do function as beam weapons. I don't really know the exact workings of those but they seem to be doing something akin to spreading a beam shield across a surface like how the beam shield(s) of the Mother Vanguard was used. I really think there should be a MS that takes that idea to melee weapons. The anti-beam shield coating might be an issue though (or it could be the exact quirky gimmick that makes sense).

[@ZeonicFenrir]

@@nicodalusong149 Victory Gundam do has some weird tech, for instance, many beam sabers are made extremely thin, supposedly result of becoming far more efficient, but on the other hand you have "beam mace" of the ZM-T-S28S Gengaozo which seems more like a desperate attempt to give it a gaudy/unique melee weapon rather than something more useful/efficient. Love them or hate them, Zanscare's Einrads pretty much work on the concept of fully enveloping beam shield: obviously there's the physical wheel, but it's made of an unknown material that is also quite resistant. Much like how the V2 can be seen as a MS sized version of the Mother Vanguard propulsion wise, Zanscare MS with two forearm beam shields and inside an Einrad can be seen the same way in the defensive department. My favorite remains the Zanneck though, which is evidently meant to be an MS sized version of the Keilas Guilie satellite cannon.

[@kurt8510]

I like the heat weapons more because 1 they're unique, they've low tech like most of the oyw zeon suits 2 they have a backup if you can't heat or lose the ability ( they would still be hot in space due to how slow radiation removes heat) you got still got a giant metal ax

[@SpexSpexington]

I can't remember if this video came out before or after Cucuruz Doan's Island, but the Zaku II High Mobility Ground Type was shown to use the Dom's Heat Saber. The Dom and Zaku II HMGT are both "high mobility" units though, so the way they both would strike with the heat saber would be somewhat similar (rushing in, then using the momentum of the MS + body rotation to add to the cut).

[@curiouscarlo7276]

What if scenario happens a lot in UC. Gihren's Greed game is one of them. Gundam captured type, mono eye gundam, canonical mono eye gundam, late UC weird stuff, etc. There is no what if scenario about the Zudah, a MS that I really like.

[@slothcakes]

Love the gihren greed stuff, gives fan service they normally can't do unless it's in yhe build series. I like the gyan variants they did

[@TokyoFilthy]

content always on point, this account definitely deserves more recognition

[@slothcakes]

Thanks you. glad to see the support

[@juniorrng7950]

For why beam weapons Clashes against heat based weapons is also the reason why we see beam sabre clashing, specifically in UC, The shape of a Beam saber is formed physically by an I-field, normally, without an I-field, Minovksy particles would spread and seperates. That is why, when a Beam sabre overpowers and cuts through the opponents sabre, the shape of the sabre is cut off, thus to regain the shape, it must re-ignite itself once again. Noteably. this rule only applies in UC timeline. In seed Timeline, it is basically just heat (Very similar to Bunsen burner, but at a larger scale). in Seed, we never see Beam clashes, and a matter of fact, when we did, it was removed in the re-mastered version, as it contradicts the physics within that timeline . In 00, was explained within the series to why beam and physical blades (specifically GN swords) can clash, but basically, Both are powered by GN particles. Presumably in series such as Build fighters, rather than applying all the physics to all mobile suits based on their universe (i.e different beam saber interactions), i would assume they just use one physics based on UC interaction, as its just a game (Seed mobile suits would either be terrible or OP if that was the case).

[@chrishill3536]

if i remember correctly U.C. heat weapon produce a proto from i-field to keep heat in a smaller area.

[@alfianfahmi5430]

I'd like to imagine that the Zeon's heat weapons were made from tungsten alloy mixed with some particular asteroid metal similar to luna titanium since they can't afford the real luna titanium alloy 🤔

[@slothcakes]

I would like to see what it would be like if they got to use luna titanium. Stronger lighter and can reach a higher temp is cool

[@melt3395]

This help explains alot thanks!

[@andrehashimoto8056]

afaik: ERA WOULD disrupt beam sabers because they are contained Plasma, so a HEAT HAWK extreme heat would disrupt the Magnetic field (Physics, High heat mess with Electricity interfacing with air, so that would be opening other cans if it's the answer) that is the I-Field.

[@codyfreeziorswatchchannel8071]

Lol almost though this was kakarot's vid. Nice vid 👌

[@SOUPSTAAA]

My prayers have been answered 🫡

[@AzureRoseMarshal]

There was also a heat sword in gundam age used by the crappy zaku knockoff

[@Alte.Kameraden]

Honestly, I've always imagined the heat weapons as being blades that project super heated plasma through tiny holes you can not physically see around the shape of the blade itself. It would make everything they can do make sense. Basically being a Beam weapons without the ability of actually projecting a beam because they lack the field that beam sabers have, so rely on making tiny smaller projections around a pre-established blade. If you watch say 0080 and 08th MS Team you can see the "HEAT" is physically floating off the surface of the blade in many scenes, giving it the illusion it's projecting something.

[@dk2k1]

Fun fact-the heat stick was a factor in Kakarot197 putting the Genoace as #1 on the worst outdated mobile suits list

[@slothcakes]

oh god I know it sucks but #1 damn. how the vagans didnt immediately win is shocking

[@dk2k1]

@@slothcakes Like I said in the aforementioned video the Genoace is like Tiger Electronic Games as describerd by the AVGN-so outdated they were never INdated.

[@jamesgjt]

The reason why the heat weapon can clash with beam is because the heat weapon's blade uses a more heat resistant material. The beam saber is cutting it but at a much slower rate. It is much cheaper to just heat up the weapon compare to beam saber which need i-field and plasma and controls all within the handle bar. The energy need to transfer to the weapon is much less and easier. It is universal, in theory, all zeon ms can use each other heat weapon. I remember that is also part of the reactor output limits the zaku as well. Only dom reactor is allowed to use some limited beam weapon, and from there, beam weapons are standard for rest of zeon MS

[@goufr3540]

Why Heat? Probably cause Impact + Heat = THATS A LOT OF DAMAGE. That and even if heat is broken, you still have a very solid melee weapon, best shown from 08th MS Team with Norris Packard's Gouf Custom. Even though a lot of Beam weapons a cool, I still prefer Heat/Solid weapons on my Mobile Suits.

[@slothcakes]

Beams are neat but not as cool as big ass sword. slicing a MS in half with a sharpen hunk of metal cant be replaced

[@ZeonicFenrir]

@@slothcakes The Astray R mangas do twelve a bit into the topic of heatless, or basically, simply physical weapons: the Ginn's sword is said to be a weapon that relies on they weight put into the blows to cut, while a weapon with a proper edge like the Gerbera Straight (a katana that is the Red Frame's trademark weapon) relies on its edge and performing perpendicular strikes for cutting through. In the case of heat weapons, and specially the Dom/Rick Dom's heat saber, we are told that they melt through enemies through sheer heat, suggesting that they are more efficient than previous heat weapons to the point that they no longer require an edge to get the job done. On the other hand, it's suggest that the Doms use such weapon since they are no quite build for melee combat (which in turn is supposedly why the melee focused Gyan was supposedly designed to work in tandem with them), so they instead use hit & run tactics involving slashes & thrusts with the heat saber.

[@XD-sc4ix]

You would think that the heat stick/shank would be a last resort weapon but nope apparently it's their main melee weapon granted the Genoace might have been built with range combat in mind not to mention that vagan mobile suits are easily stronger than the Chinese bootleg zaku

[@slothcakes]

poor things never had a chance, how they lasted that long and not get imediately wiped out is amazing

[@Biohazard1409]

You forgot Heat knifes that appereared in Mobile Suit Gundam: Cucuruz Doan's Island and a hands of custom Zaku-2 Hi mobility type.

[@riptors9777]

Later on mobile suits like the Zaku 3 had heat bayonets, and the Sea Zulu had heat claws since beam sabers dont work that well underwater. In Gundam 00 one of the throne gundams used remote controlled blade bits, wich i think where also heated blades.

[@slothcakes]

Heat dagger also appears on the efreet schneid. There are plenty of types that I haven't mentioned. I just wanted to give a basic example of them

[@ZeonicFenrir]

@@riptors9777 Oddly enough, although the Zaku III HGUC comes with the beam rifle with heat bayonet of the R-Jarja, it never uses it in the animation. Even weirder is the fact that a HGUC kit of the R-Jarja didn't turn up until many years later (over a decade IIRC): you would assume that giving such weapon to the Zaku III was likely meant to cost some corners by assigning it the same weapon another kit meant to launch soon after would include. The Zee Zulu doesn't seem to heat up its claws while fighting underwater though, and the fact that its knives remain sheathed until it resurfaces suggests that it does so in order to prevent water from slowing down its initial heating. Remember that in 08th MS Team, Norris briefly pilots a MS-06JC on an earlier episode and stumbles alongside Shiro's RX-79[G] into a river, where Shiro claims that the water is cooling down Norris' Heat Hawk, preventing it from cutting through his shield. Lastly, the Throne Zwei's GN Fangs do emit beam blades when performing melee attacks, so despite their bladed appearance, they are beam weapons.

[@riptors9777]

@@ZeonicFenrir Yeah wasnt so sure about the GN fangs, then again they use their magic GN particles like a mcguffin so it makes sense that they used it for those too. Also thats a good observation with the heat weapon in 8th MS team. Wich then begs the question: why the hell have the Zee Zulu with a clawhand if water makes a heat weapon useless? Seems counter productive to me to be honest. Not that claw weapons with so many moving parts make for good weapons in the first place. Atleast the earlier Amphibian MS had solid spike claws that where at best retractable. Guess they overdesigned the Zee Zulu.. wich is weird since its from a faction notoriously strapped for MS and resources... but i guess the rule of cool and all that. And yeah, i guess the R-jarja was simply not that popular? It wasnt on the screen for very long either and piloted by a nutcase of a pilot too. Beats me why they would only relatively recently introduce a HGUC kit for it. Werent the Xeku MS lineup also equipped with heat weapons btw?

[@ZeonicFenrir]

@@riptors9777 The Xeku Eins used a ballistic machine gun, which was a rarity by U.C. 0088, something which made the Hizack already stand out back during the Gryps War, however it did use exclusively beam sabers for melee weapons.

[@scorpionkresna8090]

If you said dom heat saber has no sharp edge it still can cut through gundam shield in one swing

[@TheNumberJuan45]

I wonder can heat weapons cure through I-field or more like cut the unicorn Gundam shield

[@tezereth]

Why heat? Pretty simply, most early Zeon ms simply didn’t have the energy output to run beam weapons.

[@Azrel00]

6:54 Which MS used that folding Heat hawk?

[@slothcakes]

Rivet Acker Custom zaku 2 from gundam last sun

[@Azrel00]

Thanks!

[@johnathan651]

Please make a video on beam weapons

[@i.r.sgisheckels8434]

What about the heat lance with the pale rider dullahan

[@user-yl3mr8ho5b]

Am zaku high movility type uses a heat saber hehe

[@vietthanhnguyen815]

Do the Zaku!

[@sebastianthomsen2225]

🔥🔥🔥🔥😊👍

[@godzillacc5]

hot take, but heat weapons are significantly cooler than beam weapons could ever hope to be

[@kindlingking]

Heathawk specifically. Rod, whip and saber are too goofy and impractical looking.

[@JeanLucCaptain]

Heathawk has been added to your inventory You are carrying too much and cannot run. Heat sabre is MUCH better due to reach as a melee weapon and its simpler as well.

[@DYhalto250]

It also has a lower power requirement, if we see how the hizack could use only 1 beam weapon .