HEATED talk is Devon CHEATING the Rules?

[@chrisottenstroer7202]

The ref absolutely needs to enforce the rules regardless if that means someone fouls out. There is no question that Devon fights for as much as he can get both physically and with his mouth at the table. But the ref has ultimate authority and needs to do his job.

[@TNM001]

refs can't. promoters have different interests. imagine the main event ending on fouls without a pull, and Devon will take it there.

[@celticrain8170]

Devon doesn’t just fight for a grip, he downright cheats in every way possible. He ridicules the referees and gets special treatment every single time. If the rules were strict he would foul out of every match. Devon set the standard for WWE style bullshit matches and justifying cheating. He could punch the opponent in the face at this point and people would still defend him.

[@ronniemillsap]

@@celticrain8170 agreed celti

[@lethargicastengah572]

This is why refs need to operate more by principle. Devon will just make the rulebook extend endlessly if we take that route.

[@lethargicastengah572]

Referees should warn/foul the player if he *refuses to fairly negotiate*

[@poundforpound199]

No wonder Armwresling is not in the olympics... We don't even have a unified rule set

[@jeaglejj]

Screw the Olympics, arm wrestling doesn’t need the NPC Olympics

[@poundforpound199]

@@jeaglejj so what does it need... More roids??

[@SabinBabblatchu]

@@poundforpound199 yes

[@loganlandis5935]

There are different rules in college vs nfl. Arm wrestling is not something everyone will be interested in ever. Is strong man as big as main stream sports? No is crossfit? No just what it is

[@poundforpound199]

@@loganlandis5935 are u interested in breakdancing

[@Vxneji]

Refs need to be strict so that athletes will listen. Being lenient is why everyone cheats. If you fouled for cheating no one would do it. Theres absolutely no reason a refs grip should take more then 5min.

[@toddblankenship7164]

5mins LOL settle down simp

[@SDSen]

All athletes comply, but Devon knows he's the main seller because of his fans who tune in because of him, and if the match ends on fouls with Devon losing without even a pin then that is something Engin cannot have happen as a promoter because it will look really bad and he'll come under fire from the idiots of the community that are Devon fans and risk running Devon out of the event. And Devon is well aware of this so he can fk around as much as he wants and he'll get away with it

[@toddblankenship7164]

@@SDSen well hes kind of been doing it forever....like before he was so popular so ya ur dead wrong

[@SDSen]

@@toddblankenship7164 he hasn't been doing it forever, not o the scale that he has been for the last few years where he gained huge social media popularity

[@ronniemillsap]

@@toddblankenship7164 no not dead wrong, hes right, and if he was able to get away with cheating BEFORE he was super famous, imagine how much hes getting away with now :D checkmated yourself.

[@slimrockwrestlers7334]

Shouting at the ref should be a foul

[@eureka5701]

hell no. That's a great way for ref's shutting down valid complaint/communication.

[@mathieufredette3157]

Not if the ref is Bart!

[@henry.bowerslol]

I dont think I have ever heard a bad take from Janis

[@R.J22]

He is a gem for sure. So polite and wellspoken👍

[@Senseiop12]

@@R.J22he fcuked ur mom?

[@MA-xo5dk]

I agree with everything but one thing: When Devon says "just say go" you can be very certain, that it's not a fair grip. He always tells that, when he gained so much in the setup, that he is sure to win. It's also the times, when he tries to pressure the referees to start the match by involving the audience "you want to see this shit take all day? I'm ready, it's him (the opponent) we are waiting for" and so on. Of coure he never mentions, that this happens after the match is already ongoing for half an hour because he was cheating and bleeding energy so excessively in the setup. That's one point I really disrespect him for. Trying to get everybody involved against the opponent, while being the one himself, who is prolonging the match massively and almost never starting in a fair grip. At least he could be honest and not try to manipulate the audience against his opponent, who most of the time is more fair than him.

[@Justlookingaround19]

Delusional 😂😂😂😂 hilarity. 😂😂😂😂

[@MA-xo5dk]

@@Justlookingaround19 Enlighten me, what is delusional? Quite a general phrase for very specific points, don't you think?

[@karuonline3294]

​@@MA-xo5dkthat's what folks do when they don't really have a point

[@karuonline3294]

Well said. That he's allowed to get away with yelling at the ref to say go as soon as he's got what he wants in the setup can probably be chalked up to the fact that he's very popular. there's a reason you hear someone like John's opponents saying he offers a fair grip whereas you'll never hear that from Devon's opponents. Devon simply has no regard for the way he wins ..

[@MA-xo5dk]

@@karuonline3294 Very well said. And I think Devon would even agree with your last sentence. In a way I also get it of course. In the end it is about winning. But I also think there is no need to be as nasty, as you can get away with. I especially don't get, why he has to rub it that much in the face of his opponent, when he is already clearly winning and the opponent is still humble and friendly. For me it's sometimes hard to watch. It doesn't have to do with hyping up the match anymore, sometimes it's just pure bullying and then telling it was all fun and games afterwards.

[@Godofredo80s]

The rules are clear: if I lose, it’s cheating; if I win, it’s fair play!

[@LeahRobb]

You sound like Donald Trump!

[@Kawa2021]

@@LeahRobb😂😅🤣😂😅🤣

[@JacobsNews]

@@LeahRobb Donald Trump won !!!!!!!!

[@alienschmaliens]

The biggest cheating, is intentional elbow foul when losing a round. People just hate Devon.

[@megyskermike]

It's true, I see the same people putting out extreme amounts of Devon hate all over youtube. They are one of the loudest minorities in sports that exist.

[@dzonib9595]

actualy people just too much love Devon... all of his matches are problem in grip, talking with judges and put the preasure on judge, so the problem is in him obviously, he always try to manipulate in grip, shoulders position, wrist lock, moving before start, rising poition, early start...

[@shanus11]

thank you!! the 'europeans' are the absolute worst for it. ruined so many matches and stolen 'wins' after bleeding out the stronger guy just to intentionally foul and restart, it's disgusting

[@shanus11]

@@dzonib9595 you mean he says just say go....or correctly pointing out the opponent is the one cheating by not putting his elbow down which is a RULE lol

[@arthurgnzg]

Yes , it remindes me of that John math with irakli John clearly Win in my book

[@ericdesrey7881]

Devon's idea about switches on top of the post you activate with your thumb to show when are ready in the setup , just as an indicator for the ref its already making things better. just needs to train with it, get used to it .

[@Ja_ist_gut]

Only of the athletes don't see when they press the button

[@JacobsNews]

lol silly would never work

[@ross.b8699]

Every top AW does exactly the same thing Devon does. The only difference is that Devon is very vocal on the table which may rub a lot of people the wrong way while most other AW are quiet

[@MA-xo5dk]

Nah sorry, but that's not true. Just watch how long a setup in any match takes and then watch any of the more recent Devon Larratt matches. It's got ridiculous and he didn't do that in the past.

[@theangrypelican5270]

​@@MA-xo5dkNah, its true.

[@MA-xo5dk]

@@theangrypelican5270 Good point. Then how come that Larratts matches are by average longer than anybody's? Because everyone else does not fight for a good grip? Must be, right? Or. Just an idea. Is it the shenanigans?

[@lugomoss]

Cap

[@stephenday5320]

FALSE

[@limo-swine6537]

All matches should start in a ref's grip. Or at least set a time limit like WAL. Ref grip is biased so a set grip is even better. Just need to keep a finger on knuckes to prevent covering. Get the Armwars ref or Bill Collins to handle Devon. They are strict when needed and aren't afraid to punish the athletes when they dont obey.

[@Kamil_Jablonski]

I know the true 🙂

[@Average1212]

WAL is a set grip, this is where terminology matters. The Refs grip and Set grip are very different. But yes I agree the WAL set grip (and the variation Travis's tournaments used) Is the best setup there has been so far, when called well.

[@aminettay]

@@limo-swine6537 that would kills 50% of the fight. Fight for the grip is a part of this game. But there are clear rules to what extend athletes can go on for. Timingwise too.

[@bsstyle123]

I've never seen an armwrestling match where fighters aren't trying to get the advantage on the grip... reality is every hand is different and is going to feel different so not everyone is going to feel comfortable in the grip and feel cheated

[@deeeeeeps]

I hate Devon's button idea but I do like the idea that when a person grabs the peg that should be concent that they are ready. After both opponents are holding the peg the ref can say "Go" no "don't move or ready". In the set grip I think any movement should be a foul, no warnings. 3 fouls is plenty if you think a grip was bad and you pull away to explain to the ref what is going on.

[@666Necropsy]

i dont agree with no movement in set grip. i like the idea of the peg

[@fitzorpercy2884]

@@666Necropsy correct me if im wrong but isn't there already a warning or foul for moving in referees grip or is set grip different?

[@MA-xo5dk]

Na don't fall for his tricks. The problem with his suggestion of a contact pad (against lifting the elbow is): If your opponent suppinates in the setup, you lose depth on the hand of your opponent. So you have to come forward and reach around the suppinated hand, to get the fair grip again. That's the normal part. But if your opponent pulls his arm back at the same time and has a longer forearm than you, you can't reach far enough anymore to get a fair grip, without leaving the elbow pad. That's the "ELBOW ELBOW" scam he and Jodi always try. Devon has a long forearm. Watch again when this happens and you will always see him suppinating and pulling back in the setup. If he would not do that the opponent would not have to reach. What Devon does isn't allowed, but he hides it with all the chaos: Moving around, talking to the refs, complaining about something else to distract, Jodi yelling, .... In the end it's cheating and manipulating the refs and audience to think that he is the one playing fair - because having is elbow on the pad. Of course the opponent could do the same thing, bring his wife that is yelling "SUPPINATING SUPPINATING" and stuff, but wouldn't it be nicer to get rid of this circus?

[@deeeeeeps]

@@MA-xo5dk Thats why i think any movement is a foul in a set grip. And if they the opponent does something u don't like and the refs won't fix it u take a foul and pull away and make a scene of it so everyone can see what is going on. I agree with you Devon using distraction to get an advantage and by definition that is cheating.

[@MA-xo5dk]

@@deeeeeeps That could be a really good solution. At the moment opponents of Devon would get a foul, because they often don't see it themselves. (I'm not blaming, I would never see all the details right in the moment). But we have video evidence... probably do it like in tennis, that you can challenge the refs decision a certain amount of times and if you we're right you are allowed to call challenge again. Would also be great to teach new viewers what is going on, because at the beginning I didn't see any except the very obvious cheating. Edit: I'm taking Devon only as an example, because he gets away with more that any other puller these times.

[@HandelandJ]

I couldn’t like this video more!!! You guys said it perfectly. Grips aren’t supposed to take long. You have 30 seconds to fight if you want. Then it’s a refs grip, and it should be pretty quick after that. Unless you try to cheat, and then you get a foul, as it should be.

[@Mike-n6u9t]

I want to see them fight for a grip in the setup it's part of arm wrestling it's all part of the fight I want to see them fighting every way of the match

[@rushgush]

trying to hide under a table. and basically hang off someone’s arm… and that shit isn’t banned. is ridiculous. hence why arm wrestling in the 1970s and 1980s was pure. and now it’s becoming. comical.

[@jachyatlas]

Everyone in this “sport” cheats the entire match. It’s a joke

[@mrswolls]

Devon made a point that if he was cheating then why isn't he totally being fouled out and If he's not being fouled out then he is not doing anything he should not be. I have to agree, if the refs are intimidated by his actions and aren't enforcing what they could be then its not his fault. He could try to cheat and just lose on fouls over and over but they aren't doing that to him. So is it him or the refs?

[@TopTrollKing-fu8yp]

Neither. It's Engin and losers who whine about Devon's style. You can't change rules only for Devon.

[@Neilpickpocket]

The fact that he isn't getting fouls is the whole point of contention. Devon saying he isn't cheating because he isn't getting fouled is an oxymoron. The claim is that he should be getting fouls but isn't. If he were getting more fouls then there wouldn't be any negative controversy towards him

[@ronniemillsap]

no its specifically his fault for doing this things to the max he thinks wont get him disqualified to abuse them and gan as much time as possible, all a complete and utter lie of a shite show

[@shanus11]

i've seen the opposite, they are more harsh on him because of the external pressure of saying he 'cheats'

[@Justlookingaround19]

Lol didn't genadi win round 1 because Devon got a foul ?.

[@ermeriodsassperini]

If the refs are too lenient, we complain. If they are too strict, we complain. Then there's the biasesness towrds Devon. If he does it, people get angry. If someone else does it. Then, no one says a word.

[@gavinhay6627]

Devon has said in the past, if you're not cheating, you're not trying.

[@Mustaerkki]

Long leavers with flexible wrist can make these Z mode style starts, that is ADVANTAGES to shorter opponents arm!! The wrist knuckle is way higher then and the momentum is stronger because closer to the table and Z style makes more torqueing effect!!

[@cl4rkj0hns0n1]

Perfect subject for channels like voa, I'm so glad to see the subject bring out everyone's passion for AW

[@staygold902]

I believe what engin has brought to us is the best of both worlds. Waf is so boring it's like watching paint dry entire matches can be decided without even pulling

[@shanus11]

i would refuse to watch if EvW of KOTT became like WAF, it's AWFUL. they try to make it basically like a gym lift scenario. it's a joke and everyone would foul out and we'd never see a match

[@Leo-wf7qc]

The only real solution is go back to WAF rules.. the sport cant be taked seriously if any match is like a circus. Athletes will learn the hard way to pull fair.. you still want to take unfair advantage? You'll lose on fouls. Simple as that.

[@RevanZim]

I advocate for a double check referee's grip system. After setting the athletes up, but before the command to close the thumbs would happen, the refs check again slowly from the outside in: first shoulder, then center, then wrists, then webbing height. If not good, the offending athlete gets a warning for anything out of place, and it gets corrected. But if all is good, we proceed to "close thumbs, close hands" commands. Then after closing thumbs and hands, the referee removes their hands from the opponents and checks again, slowly, from outside-in: Are shoulders still square? Are we still in center? Are wrists still straight? Can thumb knuckle be seen? If so, referee says "That looks good", followed after some seconds by "Go!". No "ready go" or some slow phrase like that, just "go!". And if any of those things are not given, then the offending athlete gets a warning again (which could be a foul already if it's the second warning), and we start over from the beginning. I think this is the most fair system and eventually athletes will get it in their head not to move. Because even if they try to, it will be caught in the double check and they will receive a warning for it. Obviously this is only refs grip, outside of that you can still do whatever.

[@doritej5923]

Something to think about , The most fair that there can be is if the forearm length is the same or maximum 1cm difference :D Then the advantage can be limited. Cuz we all know why devon get hated so much , is cuz hes webbing is always higher then the opponent and he wont lower down at all cost :) thats the biggest advantage imo

[@painless4785]

And that’s also the reason it’s a grey area as opposed to the other necessities for a start. Because height difference is a natural advantage just like strength difference or hand size difference - even Engin acknowledged it. Unlike shoulders square, wrists flat, knuckle showing, center. So if both athletes put their elbows the same place on their respective pads, you would have to pull the longer forearmed athletes hand down from the fingers to make it ‘equal’. And u can’t disadvantage an athlete either by punishing them for a natural advantage.

[@Average1212]

​@@painless4785 You hit the nail on the head, due to his rising and armlength setting up with Devon is very uncomfortable, We see his opponents raise their elbows in set up all the time, if called strictly I think the haters would be even more upset as in the last 5 years Levan is the only opponent that would not have been fouled out in the setup for elbow fouls. The elbow rule is called soo little it has become a meme, with both Jodi and Devon yelling at the refs to follow their own rules.

[@painless4785]

@@Average1212 💯

[@JacobsNews]

@@Average1212 his rising is false starting .......the lifting of the elbow would be to counter the false start or a reset

[@Average1212]

@@JacobsNews rising is loading not a false start you don't need movment to rise, lifting the elbow in the setup is a warning and a foul. Read the rules don't make up what you want them to be.

[@nomad9336]

Refs need to enforse the rules and they all have to be unified, which seems to be a problem. If you berate the official, no warning, thats a foul..if it takes a a lot of big name competitors to foul out of a competition to get the point across, so be it.

[@adamdeforge6884]

Yeah the John match was silly. It’s on the red too, if Devon loses a round because of fouls I’m sure he will adjust. But also it’s entertainment so fans don’t want to see Ws from fouls. I enjoy the grip up drama 😂

[@TheAncientBarbarian]

It’s annoying his setup for sure, but like he said, what rule am I breaking. Coving the thumb? No. Wrist bent? No. Is he not center of table? Yes he is. So there is nothing for them to say. Ref matches webing when putting on straps. The other person not liking the grip doesn’t matter if there is not a written rule he is actually breaking.

[@aminettay]

@@TheAncientBarbarian Faulse starts almost every time. Climbing up in the refs grip. Loading his shoulder every single time. I can go on

[@youtubeyo142]

You wanna talk about the same things commited by others? Genadi is popular for his false starts, ermes loads just like Devon, so many European athletes never square theit shoulders, but no one hates them, why the hypocrisy? There is no fair grip in aw, there can never be unless both athletes have equal arm length and height, if they are not it will always be unfair for someone, if a tall guy and a short guy are gripping up, the tall guy will have to sacrifice his back pressure inorder to have a fair grip, and the short guy will automatically have a lower grip ​@@aminettay

[@ramelix2287]

​@@aminettayFalse starts dont benefit devon the same way it does explosive pullers. only if theres any movement off center referees stop the match. Climbing and loading everyone does bro 😂 Even engin is okay with loading. Devon's shoulder stays squared even if there's a slight movement sometimes. If you whine about such minor inconsistencies please go watch boring WAF matches. This is a business intended to grow arm wrestling so entertainment is needed

[@UnstoppableSidepressure]

Devon cheats a lot. Not saying others don't do it, they also do, but Devon also

[@aminettay]

@@ramelix2287 based on your comments it seems you've never been on a tournament. I have. Your kids might be whining, I express my pinion. This is a sport and not a wwe shit or a TV show for entertainment. He who breaks the rules must be punished according to the rules. Doesn't matter if it's devon or not. Some things the ref cannot see and thats part of the game. Fighting for the setup is also part of the game. That's why there are appellations. Devon though, doesn't get punished even when it's obvious.

[@alexanderc3467]

you know why its allowed? because devon brings in viewership.

[@brianmuttillo228]

At a certain point, we have to decide which is more important, rules or entertainment….I vote for rules.

[@BeethovenHD]

Rational explanations, some are very nice!

[@micheledegiovanni6052]

You guys said everithing right, this video was really needed

[@natbornpuller]

Should all matches start in the set grip? Should help right??

[@Average1212]

IF the refs called strictly all but 2 of Devons matches his opponents would have been fouled out for lifting the elbow in the setup. People say they want fair grips but really they just want to see Devon lose.

[@Drett25]

So its legal to move shoulder back before the go? I thought dont move means dont move. Arms are counted from fingers to shoulders. Also him going early, pulling opponent arm towards him, climb and tighten the strap himself. Are ppl allowed to adjust strap?

[@666Necropsy]

Can you fart in the set grip? no movements.

[@ermeriodsassperini]

They don't want loading. I think they consider that moving.

[@daviddeline1174]

Armwrestling is about small movements. Reff grip is great but there are always advantages taken it seems. Slow pulling is best way to be fair. But this does not work for ready goes. This is hard to catch unless you have cameras.

[@saiyanspirit8199]

Viewers don`t adapt to sports, sports adapt to viewers or they loose viewers.

[@badjoelle]

More fucking about in the grip, means more time wasted, means less watchability. Doesn't matter if it's "cheating" or "not-cheating", just start the goddamn match. Devon is famous for having the longest matches videos, but only a quarter of it is actual armwrestling.

[@A_Hardy]

Awesome video! Too many Rules can destroy the joy of watching the sport

[@expertcomputerhelp]

Sry for the Novel. But yes, big arm wrestling fans here and watch Devon and the Larratts as time permits. 15+ years. As far as Devon being a cheater. Maybe sometimes. I've seen him pull his elbow back to rest it on the rear of the elbow pad for leverage. That is a nasty one. I've never seen him get called on it. So maybe it's legit? It may look like he is on the pad, but is actually resting the very tip of his elbow against the edge of the pad for leverage. I don't see him do this often, but it seems very effective. It's like the refs can't see it. So then it's not cheating, right? I don't know the video, but I've seen him do this in his or someone else's garage. I think he was cheating against Auden too, lol. Auden is now a big strong man. So I get it. But still, Auden is now able to give Devon a serious fight unlike ever before. That might cause Devon to cheat? We'll see how that one plays out. Will Auden pick up Devon's bad habits? I think Auden is a smart kid and will end up finding his own path. We'll see. So between all of Devon's yelling and antics, that in itself to me, is cheap and is like cheating. 🤷‍♂

[@VinnyP-sv4qz]

Good job guys, but please close the subject about refs intimidated. If intimidated then why bob gave foul to Devon against John first round, why kristo fouled Devon 1st round in genadi, also looking at devons shoulders, not genadi, how about Devon loosing 1st round in big important match with levan fouled cause of shoulder set up, where's the scared reff there, second foul decline position while levan crossed the center line.but Devon gets the foul when first it was called same time foul, but engin cried, then Devon only one fouled, boom 1st round lost. So please @voiceofarmwrestling tell athletes and fans more no favoritism, obviously. Come on new fans do better. All athletes are the same, you could find nonsense on any one and any official. 👍💪

[@alchmag1297]

Let the arm wrestlers choose their own set of rules,

[@dylancurbjumper]

It's about time we get buttons on the side of the table to indicate readiness in the setup

[@saigoneze4465]

So sick of all these cheating talk . If you know AW you know he's not cheating . In every sport you are making maximum preparation before the bell rings

[@Gragon]

Ive seen weather reports more heated than this. Great talk

[@lethargicastengah572]

Refs must mediate and enforce fair negotiation. Warn/foul those who refuse to participate in a fair negotiation.

[@aminettay]

@@lethargicastengah572 the only way refs can get back the weight they should have is to enforce the strict rules. Once a few big athletes lose by fouls, they authority will be back and matches become cleaner.

[@lethargicastengah572]

@@aminettay check my response to your OP comment

[@user-hn9qw7ou8d]

The cheating doesn’t occur until the referees let the rules be violated without calling a foul. You can do whatever you want. Just be prepared to have rule violations lead to you losing the match on fouls. If the fouls aren’t called because of your clout in the sport and the financial consequences that would follow from you losing on fouls…well that’s just cheating.

[@Sumppa]

These things is why i love Levan. Guy goes in, hands his arm to opponent and crushes him.

[@HumptyHampi]

Only an ignorant could think that... Imagine Levan is 50Kg lighter. :-)))

[@Armbender1085]

Make no mistake that Levan does have a deep understanding of setup and ready goes and he didn’t make it to the level he is without that knowledge. As does every world champion and if Levan ever feels he has to get a better grip and take as much advantage as he has to he will. It’s just most people he has faced haven’t pushed him to that degree

[@michaeljones5615]

Yeah whilst on enough roids to take out a rhino

[@toddblankenship7164]

easy when you do that many PED's though... so ya you dont have to compete really

[@davidlishin5583]

LEFRAUD is a joke/ Clown/ Complete Fraud.....he put on over200 pounds!!!! HELLO 👋 HE'S THE CHAMP OF STEROID TAKING HE NEEDED OXYGEN AFTER 3 ROUNDS WITH ERMES, and that clown canceled last 2 rounds he's no champion he's a FRAUD Don't u realize the OBVIOUS????, HE SHOULD HAVE A GOOD STRONG GRIP = HE GAINED ANOTHER ((HUMAN BEING )) OVER200 POUNDS FROM ROIDS WTF❗️⁉️🚫⚠️

[@raffaelecarbuglio]

I think the start should be as fair as possible, I don't like when a guy wins only because of setup shenanigans. It's like if in UFC one guy wins thanks to where he was before the start of the round, it's not fun for me. When shouting to the ref to distract him while you try to climb your grip becomes more important than, for example, having a strong cup, I think armwrestling loses something of its core and starts being like something else, something less interesting. As in every combat sport, the match cannot start before the ready go, and as John says both the guys should be confortable with their grip. The only way to do this is with WAF/PAL setup rules, the cases in which a match ends on setup fouls are pretty rare. Maybe use warnings instead of fouls in the setup, and make sure the athletes understand why they have been warned and put some good cameras to verify when there is a protest, but if you are not strict armwrestling becomes more of a show than a sport.

[@Justlookingaround19]

Have you even seen WAF matches 😂. Ends in foul are rare ?

[@Justlookingaround19]

You probably don't watch enough WAF matches if you think they don't foul out a ton 😂

[@raffaelecarbuglio]

@@Justlookingaround19 I watch WAF regularly. Yes, setup fouls loss are rare (I mean when they do not even start to pull one time). It's 1 match over 50 or something and mostly came from non experienced armwrestlers. But with warnings instead of fouls in the setup and referee that take a little bit of time to explain to you why they warned you, and with cameras to watch the replays I think you can reduce that to 1 round every 500

[@grahamm4814]

Devon has a longer arm, sue him.

[@ronniemillsap]

no its his brain that needs to be sued :D

[@davidlishin5583]

Wow!!! U R CLUELESS TO DISRESPECT THE BEST AFTER JOHN BREZENKS DOMINANCE!! DEVON IS SOLE REASON WHY THE POPULARITY OF THE SPORT HAS EXPLODED > DEVON IS THE MAN/ MYTH AND SOLE REASON WHY SO MANY HAVE BECOME FANS OF THIS AWESOME SPORT, DON'T HATE ON CURRENT GOAT WHATS WRONG WITH YOU ❓️❔️❓️❗️​@@ronniemillsap

[@davidlishin5583]

​@@ronniemillsap who's your favorite Ronnie? Under the table Todd?

[@vaibhavgupta7076]

​@ronniemillsap if his brain gets sued, you all will be no more even interested in arm wrestling.

[@MA-xo5dk]

That is what you got out of the video?? What about Vitaly, is he causing the same amount of trouble in the setup? No. Your point has absolutely nothing to do with the rules.

[@godsofwar1186]

It's very obvious that you are trying to help his situation, but from the comments you can see that people can clearly see what's happening.

[@siamakarmsports]

The solution is simple. All rounds start with a refs grip, any movement results in an immediate warning followed by a foul. This will remove 90% of the opening BS and get straight to the fight in the most fair way possible.

[@thatarmwrestler]

Thank you for addressing this I can believe how people think you shouldn't try to get a good grip.

[@ronniemillsap]

you're supposed to get the fair grip with equal chances for both sides. not what you describe.

[@Average1212]

​@@ronniemillsap Define a fair grip. Center of table, even webbing is what the sport defines as fair. If that is met then Devon has a fair grip in the vast majority of his matches. There are a handful where Devon's webbing is high but we can say that of many matches, Prudnik/Matt, Prudnik/Todd(1), Both Prudnik had really high webbing and hand at the start noone is crying that he is a cheater. You can't selectively apply the rules you want, this is a combat sport watch Devons setups and count the fouls, called or not. Every time Devon's opponent lifts the elbow in setup call it, see how many of Devon's matches even get out of the setup if called strictly. You don't want fair, you want Devon to accept a bad grip, if his opponent raised their elbow in setup it is no longer a fair grip.

[@snipescore3302]

90% of arm wrestlers cheat. They are vary intense and want to win at any cost, some are just better cheaters then others. 😂

[@painless4785]

As a wise man once said, Rules without consequences are mere suggestions. And if the rules are bad, they need to be fixed, but a fix can’t be to not enforce rules.

[@magnuslund2545]

Every sport pushes the limits of the rules. That is why we play the game or have the match, to see who can make things work in their favor.

[@dungeonmasterarmwrestling7185]

Great discussion. Certainly a topic every armwrestler and fan needs to consider, especially as the sport continues to grow and reaches a new audience. Refs in charge at the table but promotors/organisers need to set the rules appropriate for the promotion. Personally, I would rather see more refs grips and more warnings and fouls given to discourage long awkward grip ups. 🙏

[@aminettay]

There are rules. They are clear. Yet they are ignored when he pulls

[@JohnHughesTR]

Whos fault is that? Athlete or Reff?

[@Basementbuds420]

​@@JohnHughesTRnot devons

[@TNM001]

@@JohnHughesTR promoter. promoter need the pull to happen, refs can't foul the athlete out. Devon figured that out long ago.

[@ronniemillsap]

@@JohnHughesTR devons first, since hes the one doing the things to make it this way, along with the ref in a close second for not having the balls to foul him out

[@666Necropsy]

If you think Devon is the only guy doing exactly what Devon does your not very experienced.

[@chatta6013]

Between grip and also then not being square shoulders etc at the table a lot of matches are really really hard 2 watch.

[@limjamir]

It also depends on the organisers if they have given full authority and power to the referees to handle the situations. That is a big question. Because in the organiser's mind, the business is equally at risk and might be compromised. As far as things are concerned, all these unnecessary tantrum and drama actually started and came to light at one of the past EVsW events, where Devon started screaming, confronting and intimidating the referees for fouling him out and stuffs, and his loud speaker wife eventually joined him in verbally attacking the referees and even went up to the extent of climbing onto the stage, which was totally against the rules, unethical and unsportsmanlike from both of them and completely destroyed the very decorum and ethics of the sport. Viewers and fans were extremely disappointed with that very scenario. Since the organiser failed to address the issue then, Devon has been repeatedly doing the same till today. Now, that very disease has been growing worse and worse with every event where Devon is involved. And the community cannot accept it anymore because he has crossed the line. That's why, he is being called out by the entire community now, including his opponents and Engin. Because at the end of the day, nobody is bigger than the rules and the sport of arm-wrestling.

[@MA-xo5dk]

You are on point. I'm afraid most people will not start to recognise this unfair circus he does, until another guy with his wife does the same thing. Then we have trash TV armwrestling. Problem for other armwresters is: You have to have the same big community as backup for that shenanigans.

[@limjamir]

@@MA-xo5dk Absolutely. Your last line is very legit.

[@theangrypelican5270]

Here is a revolutionary idea, if you don't like the ruleset, go watch a promotion where you agree with the rules. For example, a ton of people don't watch PAL because they don't like micro fouls. They aren't out there whining that PAL should change the rules.

[@limjamir]

@@theangrypelican5270 Are you saying that to Devon? Yes, you got it right there.

[@strongaesthetics]

Definitely many early starts from Devon, that get not called by the refs.

[@jankowalski1501]

Armwrestling is a sport. A sport is a game. And a game is a set of rules, rules are what makes a game. There is not a single game or sport without rules. If rules are not strict, and are not enforced - it is not a game. If it is not a game, it is not a sport. If referees allow twisting the rules, as a consequence, they do not respect the guy who was cheated. And as a referee, your job is to protect fair guys against cheaters. This is also main job of the organizer of an event, to ensure that rules promote fairness and every competitor follows those rules. WITH NO EXCEPTIONS. I do not care if matches end up without even a single pull, if fouls have been called out correctly and with fairness spirit. Call out every single foul, and do not worry about other things. Be fair, and do not worry what will happen. It will be all good. If someone cannot pull without cheating - he should lose on fouls. That's it, and anyone who is saying otherwise, they are simply twisting logic for whatever reason. Someone will lose a match on fouls once, twice, 3 times, and on 4th time they will respect the rules. Trust me. Referees should be like a stone, like robots - you foul, you get the foul. Period. No discussions. If referees are like that, competitors will obey, as they will have no other choice, and trust me, they will learn it, that losing on fouls and not earning big monies in return, is not the way to go. THey will stop taking risky actions. Just do not make their salaries equal no matter the score, make the winner earn significantly more than a loser. And watch what happens when someone will be losing matches because of fouls, you will be surprised, how fast they will stop fouling. The problem starts when we have weak referees, that are not persistent with their actions on the table. And if looser earns good money - which means, they have incentive to try cheating, as even if they lose, they still earn a lot. You can maybe make separate rule in contracts - every round u lose by foul, ur salary is cut by 20%. BUT, every foul should be confirmed on slow mo video, so that referess have no hesitation to call our fouls, no responsibility, that someone can have their salary reduced after they called out wrong foul. SO match ends, and before Engin pays the salary to armwrestlers, after the event, every foul is verified on the video. If foul was called corretly, salary is cut. Reasoning for such rule? If you try to cheat and you risk to make my event look like shit to viewers - I will not pay u money. This is how Engin should solve this case.

[@rainblue8005]

Its the athletes who should adapt to the referees not the other way around. Show the athletes from round 1 authority and they will play it fair because they dont want to be fouled out. If you show leniency, athletes will use it and abuse it. I dont see any problem, we are just making problems. But I agree that small elbow bumps during match should be somewhat allowed. But the start should be fair. During 1 to 15 EvsW I saw way too many times where start is just not fair and its not called. You need to be a "crybaby" to have a better chance to get a fair grip and it shouldnt be like that. Everything needs to be adjusted - shoulders, webbings, cupping etc. Sometimes its just a circus, sorry. And how on earth grip can take 10minutes? Just do referees grip from the get go and just set it, just foul cheaters out. Where are we in kindergarden?

[@d.p.w62]

It is simple put both arms up there and let the referee line them up.and let the them arm wrestle..

[@a.h.a.m4303]

"Stay strong and love arm wrestling" it is the best ever❤

[@SimenFulland]

Either do straigth to straps in a referee's grip, or try the button solution Devon was discussing. Test it and see if it works. Then we skip all the foreplay and go asap to the fighting. If armwrestling wants to become mainstream, supermatches need to take less time. This is the easiast way to do it🙂.

[@TheBaron8134]

The fight starts AFTER the go. There should be no debate about the setup. It should always be set grip with zero fucking around or arguing. Anything after the go is fair game

[@th-x7254]

The conclusion of this is that Devon is taking an advantage in all of his matches but it is not considered cheating, this is left to the judges who must judge and question themselves, decide whether it is cheating or not.

[@shanus11]

no Devon isn't cheating haha if so then every single other athlete is. it's insane that Engin says this, so disrespectful. If someone is too weak to feel more comfortable in the setup that's their fault. we've seen more than enough poor calls on Devon which half of those were 100% because of bias against him and he meme that he 'cheats'

[@jakobcollier]

I loved WAL and PAL rules. Everything in the middle is just folly. Old school Arm wars was nearly WAL rules and they were pretty good but it’s either the athletes are the ones negotiating the grip or the ref is. Can’t be both.

[@POB_LOW907]

I figured they were talking about the amount of movement and backpressure Devon applies in a refs grip before the go

[@LaddRusso91]

Engin said loading back pressure is fine in the setup.

[@talkingaboutbeing385]

In regards to cheating, I think people are missing the point, or rather not understanding why some athletes complain about Devon. It's about where people have their limit on what they consider to be reasonable and sportsmanlike. It's about their own philospphy. Devon is obviously not the only one taking long to set the grip. He's the most vocal, has the most exposure and social media presence. He is in it to win it. All arm wrestlers are, but he goes further than the vast majority. That means that in a match where he is not dominant enough, he will take every bit of advantage that he can get his hand(s) on. Many will fight for advantage but Devon will go to lengths few others are willing to. And some will view that as not sportsmanlike. They don't agree with the way he conducts himself on the table, including complaining, shouting and being vocal with the refs. They also do this, but not to that extent. He's obviously not cheating, and the ones complaining about him cheating have a sense that something is wrong. I believe they can't explain what that is, and they use the word cheating. It's a misplaced critique. They could talk about how they approach things differently. Because they have nothing specific to say when Devon asks for examples of how exactly he is cheating. And Devon is also missing the point, because his way and view of himself is basically that he is without fault, and gets very sensitive and defensive when he feels like he's under attack.

[@danman1593]

Janis! When is your next match? Very fun to watch!

[@voiceofarmwrestling]

December 14, I Will pull left arm with Valentin Gospodinov at ArmHavoc 10

[@terryphillips3235]

Devon is a double edge sword. He has brought enormous amount of exposure to the sport which has grown it. BUT his intimidation tactics and antics will prevent the sport from becoming mainstream imo. If you’re stronger than everyone then why do you need the other stuff?

[@Armwrestling_Dad]

Im not sure I like this idea, but what would happen if Ref's grip was just automatic for every setup, and then fouls were strictly called?

[@Otingocni]

I'm not an arm wrestler AT ALL. that being said i was a regular buyer of ppvs for a while. I quit specifically due to all the negotiating a grip nonsense always goes on these days.

[@chatta6013]

It's all on the refs not being assertive and in charge from the very beginning, including the rules meeting etc. And for sure at the beginning of actual matches. Everyone does it. Devon just is well known and either loved or hated

[@lrandol456]

As a baseball Catcher, is it cheating to frame the ball inside the strike zone when the ball is out of the zone? Nope - it's up the Umpire to make the call not the Catcher. The issue is, Devon is much better in the setup and make others feel very uncomfortable and their whinning.

[@ehoc42]

What Devon takes too far is the unsportsmanlike conduct and the berating of the refs. There’s a way to get your grip while still being respectful to the refs.

[@Zephmarkz]

I asked some of my friends who don't armwrestle and that have only watched a few events with me. They have seen a couple of these long setups and they absolutely hate it. They ask why the referees arent doing anything and think the sport is a joke. Which is sad, but I understand why. It seems to be a huge torn of for newcomers to the sport to me atleast, but this is a very small sample size.

[@oldl2habits]

"No one likes strict rules" . Nah , I disagree, if you fouled out it's your own fault. Next time you'll be more careful. The match should start when the ref says go not before.

[@hanzalaumar40]

There should be the fight for Grip! Its enjoyable and also it is the beauty of Sport ❤

[@thecardoski]

Isn't it really a matter of 'sportsmanship' over cheating? People are frustrated that it appears as if one guy runs over the refs. But Devon isn't doing anything 'illegal' just being a pain in the ass, that's part of his game, we all know it. It would be sad to make rules to change him.

[@alipalma6386]

cant belive this is even questioned. devon is the dirtiest puller of all time. that will be his legacy

[@ssteacup]

I can't believe it either LOL People just kissing his ass now lol. The guy does anything and everything to win including having his wife screaming at the refs 😆

[@alipalma6386]

@@ssteacup ya, definately has is "corner coaches" try to distract ref's trying to point out opponent's elbow so they dont look at what he's doing. also look at what he does after the ref calls pin in macthes vs chaffee and levan, continues pulling when round is over to try to gas them out more. so many dirty tactics. dude is shameless

[@ssteacup]

@alipalma6386 I've been saying that for so long lol In his match in WAL against Dave, he doesn't let go and squeezes Dave's thumb AFTER the round. I just don't get everyone coming out and defending him lol. It's so obvious he does everything and anything to win. But the moment he comes out and cries about it then no one will say a bad word because they're all scared lol.

[@literatureliterature2787]

Devon is cool my champ he will also kick ur ass up on the table

[@stekelly1980]

due to how much people fight for an advantage in the grip, maybe its time for top matches to be referee grip from the start in all matches.

[@davidfilestra8826]

Here's a crazy idea: 10 seconds setup, no referee involvement, the athletes must agree and start the fight in 10 seconds!!! Otherwise they both lose the round! If there are no more rounds left, no winner is declared, if it's for a belt, the champion loses his belt.

[@TheCatabolicTrex]

Well the difference with Devon is the manner in which he cheats, I've never seen anybody do the things he does in the match

[@blackenedsprite8542]

He's my favourite and most fucking hated arm wrestler. Can only watch the highlights of his matches now, I'm sure earlier on in his career he wasn't this bad

[@aveniryasinsky5580]

so why isnt the referee doing anything about it? If you dont want unfair play get referees that do their jobs. Everyone cheats at least a bit yall just dont like devon and are biased.

[@Alrat115]

Travis

[@limo-swine6537]

​@@aveniryasinsky5580You like Devon and you are biased. He drives PPV sales so promoters love him. If he gets fouled out then the Devon fangirls (like you) will publicly shame the refs. This will spoil the refs image and the promoter will also not hire that ref again, fearing lower sales. Devon knows that he is needed for the money and can get away with cheating much more than anyone else.

[@e-ton2145]

@@limo-swine6537Hristo has made numerous questionable calls in Devon and non-Devon matches and he’s still around frequently. On the other hand, how many times have we seen Luke P. after Ermes got mad at him?

[@im_cold_blooded]

Most of Devons fighting I've noticed is when his opponent tries to grip without their elbow on the pad, first. He won't do it. Nor should he.

[@John-np2bf]

ABSOLUTELY NOT CHEATING

[@MajorArmwrestlingChampionships]

If only there was a league/ rules set / Table that address all of this?

[@asonei3531]

I think some fighting for the grip is ok and the rules aren't so bad. What's lacking is enforcement. Movement in the referees grip should really be a foul, it can't be that with a referees grip it still takes 2min to start a match. And even more so when an elbow foul occurs or after slipping etc. leaving the table for more than 10 seconds should be a foul. Many of the superlong matches were also because of that not being engorced

[@blaserlongrange7616]

Yes he does, he can't win a match if he doesn't have a advantage in the grip setup

[@9xqspx6]

I think oftentimes the PROMOTERS tell the refs to try and not foul out athletes - because (as discussed in this video as well) they want to see the fight (because THEY THINK that's what the people who purchased the PPV want). Which makes the job really difficult, even for good refs. If this happens with less good refs and with tricksters (not cheaters!) like Devon or Prudnik or Genadi (etc., the list goes on and on), then the match might turn into chaos ...as we have seen at some matches. I wouldn't be surprised if Engin was telling his refs to try and not foul people out (especially Devon). Basically causing the problem that he now is blaming Devon for... This might also be the reason why we don't see Bill reffing too often on these events - I don't think he likes to let shit go like that. Although recently he have also done it on one of the events, and I was very much surprised about that.

[@mrhallman64]

Set time limits for setups, and if the match doesn't start, have consequences.

[@diadem03destiny29]

Ok if he’s cheating and the opponent openly and clearly identifies hes cheating, then why can’t they do anything to stop him? Is it actually that Devon is ultimately better at gaining the advantage required to win faster than the other guy?

[@anderssandstrom545]

Of course the pullers should follow the rules and be aware of them but at the table they have the referee that should have the final word in this. If the referee doesn´t say anything, just keep at it with your trickery. Look at other sports. Everywhere the athletes takes the opportunity of an advantage if it presents itself. It´s up to the referee to keep it balanced during the game och contest. I have no opinion on whether Devon is cheating or not but as mentioned above, the referee is right there. One problem is that eg the supermatches are so hyped up and a referee will be very reluctant to give the decider to fouls regarding setup. And not even let the pullers pull. But hey, if you can´t abide to set rules that is a possible outcome. It´s a risk you take when stretching the rules to your possible advantage,

[@jaredspottsNoCab]

Nobody wants to be fouled but you need rules and fair play... It's really alot on a ref .... I'm sure this is why the olympics are not interested lol..

[@moonbaguette383]

If you Ask me, ref grip should be mandatory , no strap BS , slip Is foul .

[@georgeh2299]

Part of arm wrestling is getting a proper grip, its part of the game. Of course there are limits but its part of the game and its fine the way it is.