The TRUE Payback Time for Heat Pumps

Is renewable heating doomed? Adam blows the lid on the true cost of renewable heating to both the individual and to the public.
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[@PKSiAMiAM]

The first thing that needs doing is to insulate homes properly. We need to have more grants available for people to put in closed cell foam insulation. Make the homes as air tight as possible and ventilate them with HRV systems. It will be much cheaper in the long run. After we have that setup we install solar battery systems and heat pumps. We have the potential to take most of every home off grid if we do this correctly. IMHO - building regs are still not up to scratch and leave a lot to be desired.

[@gonnfishy2987]

👈🏻visionary. For instance, my draughty place would need 1/2 the energy expenditure to keep it warm, if that much even, but it’s a cheap and cheery drywall refurb of an early victorian dwelling, it turns over volumes of air per hour no matter what i seal 😮

[@fuckjewtube69]

You socialists never shutup about grants.

[@PKSiAMiAM]

@@gonnfishy2987 1 I'm not a socialist. If we didn't have to pay so damn much tax for the government doing jack all useful with it I could recommend many other things to do with the money along with lower taxes.. If using closed cell foam and other barriers properly installed it is very possible to seal any home tight. It's always easier to do when building from scratch but with all the building development regs in place it makes making homes more sustainable much more expensive and difficult. I have a friend who built himself a home which costs home £30 a year to heat! It's not hard when you apply yourself and use building technology available to us today.

[@markcross5572]

My house was all electric with storage heaters and an immersion heater using about 14500kwh. I now have an air to air heat source mini split which only struggled to heat the whole house in those -10degC. I also have a dehumidifier and have banned the tumble dryer. I now use 9500kwh per year. And have bonus cooling on those odd 35degC days. Only cost £2000 fitted. Sorted

[@justinma1743]

Is it cheaper to charge the storage heaters overnight comparing A2A heatpump?

[@markcross5572]

We are on Economy10 so 10 hours of cheap 15p and 14 hours at 35p. We just run it all the time as more convenient so some is dearer than it could be but overall it is much cheaper

[@markcross5572]

It's the best thing I have ever bought

[@mikejoseph425]

@@markcross5572I am on Octopus intelligent on 7.5p & 31p. I understand you are probably getting 8 hour off peak and I only get 6, but is there a reason why you are not on intelligent as it must be cheaper to run

[@markcross5572]

@mikejoseph425 My meter is Economy10 which has a circuit that turns the storage heater and immersion heater circuits on and off. I got stuck with British Gas when my supplier went bust and have only had some casual looks for cheaper since. I do get 10 hours on cheaper 15p and 14 hours at 35p so probably not much difference

[@andr0373]

I know its a little different in the UK, but in the US most people have forced air already have air conditioning (AC). Upgrading these AC configurations to heat pumps isn't very labor intensive since they swap in pretty easily with the existing AC systems. Nice to see what you're dealing with over the pond.

[@CT-vm4gf]

An air conditioner is a heat pump.

[@mapryan]

Nice idea but all air-to-air heating systems in England require planning permission, so the take-up is really low

[@DragonXDrei]

@@mapryan They don't if following certain rules. You certainly need planning permission if you want to add more than one pump. Look it up before bullring out nonsense.

[@JaneBloggs-jr9qd]

nobody needs air con in UK , maybe for a few weeks in summer if that , this year not at all , not worth buying

[@wisenber]

@@JaneBloggs-jr9qd "nobody needs air con in UK" Until you get used to enjoying the same inside temperature and lower humidity. Heck, you really don't "need" heat. Just put on an extra sweater. Extreme temps in my areas range from 42C to -25C, which is why so many go with forced air using a gas furnace and electric AC. That, and out electric rates aren't being distorted by a shift to renewables and gas is still cheap.

[@francishead8939]

Hey, agree with you on a lot of stuff regarding heat pumps. You often give balanced and nuanced responses. That said in my experience the removal of gas utility connections isn’t necessarily going to materialise as a cost saving in new builds. We had 200 homes where we were following fabric first, MVHR and all electric design that were made commercially unviable due to electrical grid reinforcement costs. So it isn’t that simple unfortunately.

[@HeatGeek]

Yes I was thinking one off build/consumers. This video wasn't really for developers making housing estates. I wouldn't have a clue about that.

[@francishead8939]

@@HeatGeek Fair. Thanks for the response. I do enjoy your videos btw!

[@timandstellajob4244]

@@francishead8939 Did those homes have solar and battery storage? That would reduce or eliminate grid reinforcement needed. I don't understand why some new homes are still being build without solar.

[@martinlintzgy1361]

There is no green hydrogen. Hydrogen is brown. 130 billion for hydrogen gas network upgrade is ridiculous waste of money. It would buy another 4 or 5 hinckley c size power stations.

[@hazmat5749]

Will hydrogen ever be viable for domestic heating? As I understand it to make green hydrogen you take electricity and split water into hydrogen and oxygen, which I have heard is only about 65% efficient. The hydrogen is then piped to homes and burnt in boilers to release heat at around 90% efficiency. So only 58% of the energy used to make the hydrogen actually gets converted to useable heat at the other end. Why not cut out hydrogen and just supply electricity directly to homes to power electric boilers or heat pumps? Assume 10% losses for the grid the still means 90% of the energy available to heat or run a heat pump. Hydrogen seems like a dead end for home heating.

[@HeatGeek]

We have a video on this check it out.

[@nickwinn7812]

Very well reasoned, we desperately, desperately need more of this kind of rational thinking if we are going to solve our current energy problems.

[@markrainford1219]

If you want to solve our energy problems then we need a new government.

[@tanja8907]

There are no energy problems. Its the wef instructing governments.

[@nickwinn7812]

@@tanja8907 LOL!

[@johnnycarson67]

If you want more carbon free energy you need SNR, small nuclear reactors. Modern designs are walk-away safe and can be up and running in 1 month.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Wrong. There is not a single SNR operating anywhere in the world.@@johnnycarson67

[@malcolm8564]

Maybe I've missed something but as far as I know there is only a plan to add 20% hydrogen to the gas system so they can say it's hydrogen but actually it's almost pointless. Also although we talk about net zero 2050 there is actually no plan to anywhere near eliminate methane.

[@gonnfishy2987]

Insightful. It’s good to read the positives AND the negatives, a lot of these “initiatives” are tentative and impractical but the guv hopes it can get people enthused enough to support/pay for the initiatives when they are not really practical

[@ciaranamhain]

Including the increase of house value is a nonsense. If you sell the house and achieve an extra 5k because of the heating system you now have to buy another house. If that house has an upgraded system you'll pay a premium for that. If it doesn't you'll have to spend to upgrade 🤔

[@JaneBloggs-jr9qd]

what he said made no sense , anyway ten years down the line your system will be considered old fashioned and may need replacing

[@michaeld5888]

I see myself never getting out of my largish house too large for my needs. Apart from the normal horrors of entering in to the chain of people selling and buying a house it would need to be certified green and probably the electrics are not up to modern standards. The cost of modernising it is just too prohibitive and I am sure a raft of certificates are required now meaning a lot of money outlay. 25 year paybacks far exceed my life expectancy especially considering the disappearing medical care available as the NHS withers away. These grand plans the government has really are unfundable by both the general public and the government itself. The government already taxes us to the hilt with services being continually downsized so where it all goes is a mystery. We are now having to pay for our green waste collection. The inexorable closing down of public transport whilst a green agenda is promoted beggars belief; 1 in 4 services have disappeared in a decade. I am afraid the mention of climate change means hitting the mute button as you can only absorb the same message repeated endlessly so many times. I would say every man for themselves nowadays as thing become seriously threatening. It is a matter of concern if civilisation will actually survive the end of fossil fuel with all the hairbrained flaky schemes around at the moment..

[@wonton8983]

Reality, well said.

[@MattyFreedom]

Great to see some people haven’t been brainwashed into insanity. This video made me despair at how ready and willing some people seem to accept utter lunacy.

[@terrybrooks395]

Far too many if's and but's and very little apparent understanding of real people in real life and real payback times E.g.when in any trade, service has anyone ever seen prices come down?, if's but's and fairy nuts, you seem to compound all the if's and might's causing exponential flaws

[@smikedenney222]

Not sure why you’re worried about higher co2 levels in the earths atmosphere unless you are worried about how low the levels are. 20:30 The current levels are at 0.04% and if we get down to 0.02% plant life on earth starts to die off. Pollution is a problem but co2 is not. Also 96% of co2 emissions is from nature to which we have no control. The uk emissions only represent a tiny fraction of the man made 4%. You have to listen to the climate scientists who don’t have financial conflicts of interest to discover the real factual data. The earth has been around for millions of years with co2 levels many times higher than they are currently.

[@smeggedup]

Had a heatpump fitted for a year now and very happy with it. Max bill in winter (max usage) £280 3 bed semi 100sqm 1950s house.

[@JaneBloggs-jr9qd]

£280 for how long? the whole winter

[@DebRoo11]

​'max bill' i would assume per bill not whole winter

[@JaneBloggs-jr9qd]

@@DebRoo11 in UK you can get billed monthly or quarrterly so its hard to assume anything

[@DebRoo11]

@@JaneBloggs-jr9qd makes sense. We only get monthly bills here in Canada so your question and response is quite valid

[@amvvol2]

assuming the £280 is maximum monthly charge ?

[@langy1318]

Insulate the f#%k out of your house and totally reduce the cost of heating your house whatever heating method you use in a nutshell!

[@douglasallingham-mills3216]

Apart from new build there is no argument. Plus heat pumps are so complicated so many points of failure. And there is no one to fix it ! Manipulative statistics.

[@RighteousBruce]

End the paris agreement lol. ITs all shit.

[@markdonnelly9026]

It amazes me that people try to heat badly insulated houses. What a waste of money. Insulate your houses first and foremost. Start with the attic and then board the interior walls then worry about heating the place. In the meantime buy a good heavy tracksuit and a heavy duvet.

[@noelburke6224]

Hydrogen boilers are about emissions not cheap fuel

[@Trahloc]

@@noelburke6224 I'm honestly shocked anyone thinks hydrogen is a replacement for natural gas under any rational. One is an energy source the other is at best an energy storage method and a bad one at that. Hydrogen is dangerous with an air mix as low as 4% all the way up into the 90% and is explosive from 18% to around mid 50%. It's fine for massive infrastructure like peaker plants or even trains as they're large enough for the safety systems needed. Bringing it into your home vs a heat pump? Heck no.

[@Shutityou]

Yup. I had a freezing cold Victorian seaside house. Coats on back of bedrooms door. I lines the exterior walls with 25mm celotex and plasterboard. The final wall thickness has increased by 35mm. Made such a massive difference to warmth in winter and cool in summer. Should be the first diy fix for these old houses.

[@ducharmehvactraining925]

The 600 pound gorilla in the room is the professional cleaning of the heat pump coils and the high coat of service when needed. Especially with Inverter mini split air to air heat pumps in my neck of the woods, Vermont USA. I really can't believe that installers and service companies are not aware of this so it points to dishonesty or ignorance.

[@DavidMartin-ym2te]

Sadly less than 50% of Scottish homes are suitable for heat pumps. Effectively installing anything built before 1970 is simply too difficult/expensive. You really need to examine the housing stock outside the southeast a little more.

[@Muppetkeeper]

As the genius said, I changed my gas boiler just as it was at end of life, my water tank was also leaking, and my radiators were 35 years old, and a few of them were starting to rust. I had a quote to change my gas boiler, plus move to an unvented system, and to swap 15 radiators, it all came to £9,500. So I went with a heat pump, after the grant it cost just a little more than swapping out for another gas boiler. I also have solar and batteries, so my running costs are much lower than gas. Sometime it all just works out.

[@JonnyR1981]

Really good im glad this has worked out for you.

[@gilesdavey8508]

But for most this is not the case, a simple boiler replacement is all that is required.

[@necurrence1776]

In total you paid more than you will ever save from now onwards

[@Ashnoorkgrover]

Can u recommend solar panel installation company? Im looking to do the same.

[@stevejones2310]

I was quoted £7500 with Octopus. But the house can't realistically be insulated to a level that would give me reasonable thermal comfort on a cold day...

[@georgemoore4504]

Heat pump has increased my electric bill byv 300 percent

[@philreilly6959]

The gas pipes in my area (south Birmingham) have just been upgraded to pvc. I wasn't sure why they were doing it, given that there weren't any significant problems in the area. Do you think they could be starting to make the infrastructure hydrogen-ready?

[@HeatGeek]

It will be for that.. however we won't have hydrogen for decades or every. Its a complete waste of energy and time

[@briangriffiths1285]

@@HeatGeek Someone needs to get a grip on the hydrogen exponents, the losses are so great in production it will only ever be used for industrial processes like steel making. And I read recently that the steel produced in the trials has some improved characteristics so whilst seemingly expensive it may have qualities that make the cost very worthwhile.

[@EdthePlumber]

These new gas line are the gas network trying to ensure long term gas (likely hydrogen) uses. The argument is we got this amazing network of pipework we can’t not use it! Goverment fund hydrogen In my mind it’s just expensive conducted for the next internet cable! 😂

[@rogerphelps9939]

PVC is permeable to hydrogen.

[@mvmallinson]

Music, seriously …why? Music, the CURSE of You Tube, just simply annoying and irritating

[@JaneBloggs-jr9qd]

almost every video has subliminal muzak , its very annoying and totally unnecessary

[@colinmcnally5931]

My old gas boiler is 30 years old. Never had it serviced, never given any trouble. All this new stuff is rubbish by comparison!!

[@JaneBloggs-jr9qd]

thats eco friendly , buying all this crap made in China is not eco friendly

[@andrewgalloway9766]

repayment times of 25 years (your shortest projection is crazy ) I'm 57 and probably won't live that long, over the years I have replaced / removed many heat pumps with most not lasting 10 years some under 6/7years real running costs in my customers homes, yes I have a heating business too with average 20 staff and 35 year's experience, were over 30% more with many people who are installing now also having to pay from 10 to 30,000 for insulation required for almost 75% of our housing stock without which very few homes can be heated to the temperatures we are used to with the HPs. I admire your attempt to inform but even manufactures that I talk to state at present people will see a running cost increase of 20 to 25% against a condensing gas boiler doing the same job and they are on the conservative side. as for cost in future replacements boiler straight swap 2,000 ish needs replaced in 20 years hp 4,000ish but replaced twice in 20 years so yet another 6000 on top of original conversion costs region 15000 not taking into account most homes with a good electric shower and induction hob are already being fitted with switch gear to prevent both being on at once due to domestic property electricity supplies new upgraded supplies required again for our existing housing stock it will take more than 13 years to up the power generation for future car charging let alone this this is a major factor in the use of hydrogen boilers running alongside gas till 2050 at least according to the power suppliers.

[@4nrgy]

C'mon 9kw heat pump monoblock(easy to install) is abt 2000£ and you don't need to change anything in your installation. It's bogus claims. Install it as it is maybe buffer abt 200dm3 and you good to go. Total about 4000-5000£. Easy

[@michaelseanturner]

I love your videos and explainers. And I totally get the no panacea message. Heat pumps sound like a no brainer for the vast majority of detached and semi detached houses in the UK. But I'd like to hear what you'd recommend for a terrace house with very little garden space, or an apartment with no / shared garden? Ie nowhere sensible to put the heat pump outside. I've heard comments about community heating on your channel before but I'm not convinced that a row of terrace houses will get that without significantly more council / government help. Which doesn't seem to be a topic of discussion from either. And I'd have thought that community heating basically means someone loses their home so it can be converted into a boiler room of sorts. So we lose a terrace house on each street in a country with not enough houses?

[@HeatGeek]

All coming. Video backlog is looooonnnnggg

[@johnmckay1423]

@@HeatGeek Came to the comments to ask about terraced housing. I already have an ASHP on my detached house that I'm very happy with. Finances for me were justifiable, partly because I was motivated to stop burning stuff, partly because I was looking at a system replacement for a 40 year old oil boiler (i.e. not just the boiler) and partly because I'm getting £11k from RHI instead of the £5k grant. Calculated to more or less break even over 18 years. It'll be quicker now because electricity hasn't gone up at much as oil...

[@JonnyR1981]

@@johnmckay1423 With some of the quotes I've had back the 5k isn't even worth it. priced the full kit of parts being installed up even if I was being generous, it was 6k worth. 13k was the quote so asking 7k for labour. That was only for the pump and tank. There wasn't any radiators in that.

[@elorateq3672]

@@JonnyR1981 Same here, so I'm now concentrating my research (and limited budget) on improving the insulation and air-tightness. Trouble is there's also a lack of trained installers for internal insulation too & so far only carpenter willing to quote to install a new door & triple-glazed windows to move towards passive house standards.

[@enemyofthestatewearein7945]

Private apartment blocks will be a massive problem to get off gas. District heating makes perfect sense for this application but commercial freeholders will have no benefit, so they won't do it unless it's mandated by government. Don't be holding your breath on that happening. OTOH social landlords are starting to deliver these schemes already.

[@radoslavtomov9121]

I would argue, that it would be better to invest in insulation first. Top priority should be to limit the amount of energy houses loose. Then most likely we would be able to get away with smaller, simplified and thus cheeper system.

[@HeatGeek]

Most properties have loft, do and wall. But there is two sides to the argument. Is it better to decarbonise or lower usage? Ofcourse both if possible

[@amwphotos]

For everywhere off gas you're looking at replacing oil boilers and tanks, or LPG, which are both more expensive than gas grid, and you have to have a smelly oil tank! I replaced my knackered oil boiler and tank with an ASHP, and while not a cheap move, definitely worth it.

[@briangriffiths1285]

It is often said that oil is more expensive than gas but I don't think it is if you are cute at buying in bulk at the right time of year. With no standing charge on your bill and servicing less crucial (oil boilers don't have the same risk of explosion!) I think that oil overall was cheaper than gas. But, I too swapped for an ASHP and my it is cheap to run. Since my previous comment electricity prices have jumped but I still have 6 hours a night at 7.5p a kWh which covers most of my consumption over 39 p daytime. And I have no need to keep an eye on the tank in the midst of winter when the level drops an inc or two a week.

[@1over137]

Cheap night time energy IS NOT, repeat NOT environmentally motivated. It's purely financial. Power plants do ONE thing. They generate power. They also cost 100,000s to run daily. If they aren't generating power they are making a loss. Thus, every single operating power plant WANTS to run 24/7. So they are in the business, for profit, to encourage people to use more power at night so they can continue to operate, even if they are charging slightly less. It's still making money, were as shutting down a few dozen plants overnight and powering them back up in the morning would be far better for the environment.

[@DCUPtoejuice]

why assume radiators are part of every heat pump install???

[@HeatGeek]

Because radiators are rarely sized correctly

[@fredjoyce4914]

Waste of time watching

[@DenisUlmer]

I wish there was something similar to you guys in Germany. It is impossible to find a good installer here sadly. Keep up the good work!

[@clivepierce1816]

When looked at in the round the use of hydrogen for domestic heating is a non-starter. There are several reasons for this: 1) green hydrogen is enormously expensive to produce and requires vast quantities of renewable energy (note that blue hydrogen can never be zero carbon and unfortunately our government has committed billions to blue hydrogen production - a very costly mistake we are all paying for in our electricity bills); 2) the thermodynamics of hydrogen generation and distribution render it too expensive for large scale domestic heating.

[@HeatGeek]

We already did a video in this. Its the other video we meantion

[@JonnyR1981]

Fully agree on this. Small scale production of hydrogen from electrolysis and solar is possible but then you are generating electricity to produce a gas to then produce electricity or heat. Fuel cells require platinum to get any kind of decent energy. Gas is so much more dangerous then liquid fuel storage. Its molecular size cause issues leakage. There are pilot programs in Scotland 300 house ran off hydrogen. If hydrogen is ever going to work we would need mini/sub generator stations with district heating. Individual hydrogen boilers in each house in my opinion is not the way to do it.

[@adrianc101]

The government are trying to force the area I live in onto a Hydrogen trial. I’m not convinced Hydrogen for home heating is good solution. That’s why I’m looking at heat pumps, probably ground source.

[@elaineholden6121]

Hi, Please remember that not everybody who bought a Heat Pump received a single penny from the government. I was told I would receive £5,000 towards the initial outlay. At the end of the day I was invoiced £15k+ and told I would not get any government subsidie. I know of other people who were treated the same way by the companies selling heat pumps. They turned out to be cowboys, but you dont know that until the day they install the system.

[@HeatGeek]

You should only use members of a consumer code. They sign a legal document so they cannot do this. This is not a regular occurance

[@uwuweewee]

The problem is you just saw what you saw was free money and did not do the researched, which is why you failed to qualify for the grant. You are the type of person who falls for how2crypto scams

[@seancreighton6959]

The £15000 average price for a heat pump seems a little high? Where does that number come from?

[@JJKebab9]

I agree, it seems a bit hight. I know your comment is a year old, but I thought this was the best place to reply with the costs of my new heat pump. I have a 4 bedroom detached property, 10 years old. Boiler failing so I am the perfect candidate for an ASHP. Total price was £12,800. BUS grant was recently increased to £7,500. Would have had to pay around £3,000 for installation of a new boiler. So my heat pump only cost me only £2,300. Already have solar & battery so the savings will pay for it very quickly.

[@GdaySport]

The government can't even figure out that leaving the money printer switched on leads to high inflation, let alone how to keep public toilets open - needless to say I have 0.FA% faith in them figuring out how to make heat pumps affordable...

[@grahambrown42]

How much has already been spent replacing iron gas pipes with yellow plastic pipes over the last few years? I constantly see pavements being dug up and yellow gas pipes being laid where I live. Can iron pipes take 20% hydrogen mixed with natural gas?

[@brucemurray1517]

No Govt can force future Govt to uphold prior commitments; that is written into our legislation. Therefore the fines from Paris Agreement and COP (which were agreed in a very different world from today) are not set in stone. When people start to see the personal fuel costs, I suspect that there will be much greater scrutiny into AGW

[@wobby1516]

Your wrong about that.

[@michaelplunkett8059]

​. Just withdraw from a treaty. Announce you will still do better than China. (A new coal power plant a week.)

[@berrange]

The cost to the public of the boiler upgrade scheme, while significant, is peanuts in the bigger picture . In comparison the UK gov is estimated to have indirectly subsidized the oil and gas industry to the tune of almost £14 billion between 2016-2021, mostly through favourable taxation policies. And of course, the cost of doing nothing to mitigate climate change is essentially unmeasurably huge. I would like to see the upgrade grants biased much more towards the least well off though as they'll be suffering the most with high energy prices and can't afford an upgrade even with a 5k discount.

[@patrickwheeler2646]

Completely agree, there is actually a fair bit of investment in the reformed Green Homes Grant which is now being delivered through local authorities and the Eco4 scheme. Both programs are means tested and providing low(er) carbon heating for people who actually need the help, rather than BUS and previously RHI which although are/were elitist but still important for proving the viability.

[@mikehodgson9877]

Estimated by whom? Tax reliefs generally mean you pay less of your/the company's money to the government, it doesn't mean the government giving you cash. Since North sea oil and gas extraction started, it has paid billions to the UK government, the same (so far) cannot be said for wind and solar. Trying to make out that the oil and gas industry gets bigger subsidies than renewables is just silly. I agree completely that we should be having greater incentives for low/zero carbon energy and probably should have some form of carbon taxation, but while we still need gas and oil, it's better for both the environment and government tax revenues if we source it 'locally' rather than for example ship in LPG.

[@jimbodimbo981]

Can you explain how tax is favourable to oil companies compared to any other company? I’ve researched this and don’t see where this figure comes from.

[@johnnycarson67]

Global warming was supposed to end the world 🌎, we were told, in 1996. It didn't. At some point you have to question what the 1% are telling you and think for yourself.

[@gtd65]

25% higher running costs would be fantastic at this point. How bad would an ASHP install be, to get a roughly 300% increase in costs? December electricity bill was 380 quid! Another local friend, spent 387 heating her semi-detached home! When the house was heated using kerosene and without the internal wall insulation, running costs might have been a third of the ASHP with a far better level of insulation. Electricity would need to be around 7p per Kwh, if you wanted to run at the same costs from my limited experience. Even Mitsubishi advised me that in December if your electricty cost for the ASHP was less than £20 per day, you were doing very well. I was also advised that people were phoning up to complain that they were spending £50 to £60 per day on electricity. I already thought, in my case, seeing £15 per day, on the smart meter was madness. On what planet, is £600 per month, "doing well"...?

[@rafaltomaszewski5175]

I pay £680 per month only Heat Pump. KWH = 0.26 p but from 1st January 2024 it will go up above 0.35p? I want my money back.

[@gtd65]

@@rafaltomaszewski5175 that's a ridiculous amount of money to spend on heat and hot water! DO you have any ideas of the costs to heat the home before the ASHP was installed?

[@rafaltomaszewski5175]

Hi. Pump was installed in May 2021. LG THERMA V 9KW. Before we had Worcester boiler, bills between 1200-1700 annual gas, plus electricity 200-300 for 12 months. Forcast for this year 06.23 - 06.24 £8000-10,000 :(

[@gtd65]

@@rafaltomaszewski5175 I think the only way to accurately compare costs is to have a years worth of data. £8000-10,000, for a year, is insanity! What I'm seeing is much higher costs during the winter months e.g. December, January and February then dropping this month in March. If my kWh usage is less than 5000 for a year, it's going to be comparable to oil.

[@coolkiwi79]

@@rafaltomaszewski5175that is crazy - maybe have another engineer check it is set up properly, som systems are badly installed, hence the running costs. If it makes you feel better, we topped out at £52 per day on gas alone in the depths of winter! 6-bed detached Edwardian house though.

[@palemale2501]

Very good - except I don't think you can also deduct that final £5k in a retrofit Heat Pump for property value increase - as there is no chance to receive this money till the house is sold, and even then the new purchased house will likely also have an increased value due to its already having an installed Heat Pump. So the saving is only £10k, but only till the BUS scheme shortly lapses, when the saving drops to £5k.

[@HeatGeek]

If you don't do it, you won't have that 5k for the next house! Can't have it both ways...

[@grindupBaker]

You multi-millionaire Brits (all of you I guess) live in a totally-different world from me. I'll be kicking the bucket in a few years and if I sprang for a heat pump I'd chuck it on a table near a small window and run it through the window & put the other bit on some 2x4 frame outside, stuff the window with newspaper. If I needed more I'd buy another one and stick it through another small window. Building Codes you say. That's how I roll !

[@richardmccann9293]

Recent updates to Building Regs Part L in June 2023 in the UK state new boiler installations must come with a maximum flow temp of 55 degrees. This means ALL new boiler installs will likely come with upsizing rads and (in horrible case scenarios) upsizing all the primary pipework in the house :( which means new boilers no longer cost 2.5k, as flow temps for most houses are around 75 degrees. Still, I know two heating engineers who have installed new boilers since June and didn't touch the emitters or pipework, flow temp still the same as it was before. Completely illegal... might be years before it starts biting installers in the backside, but it's building regs after all.

[@OliLane]

AFAIK this is only for full replacement/new installs (i.e. when you were replacing all the pipes and radiators anyway). Had our boiler replaced recently at they left it at 80(!)

[@richardmccann9293]

@@OliLane If they replaced your whole boiler after June 2023 and left the flow rate at 80, they broke the law unfortunately for them :) of course nothing will get done about it for now, but in the years closer to 2035 I'll bet my crappy apprenticeship wages that engineers will start getting bitten in the arse for ignoring the building regs. Happened in the past with the introduction of condensing boilers, it'll happen again with this :)

[@arveskjellanger4121]

Have 2 heat pumps here in Norway, get my investment back in 4 years, even if electricity is quite cheap. They last normally 10-15 years (air-air). Most houses in Norway have them, in old houses it often saves you from upgrading your electricity system since you reduce the power need by 2/3 . I will never live without my heat pumps! Also have in my EVS. Efficent way of heating an ev.

[@guidodezwaan]

So the conclusion is; if you dont need to upgrade your heating system and only need to replace the boiler; dont go for a heat pump as it would take >50 years to earn it back; replacing your old heat pump in the end will also cost more (1500,- in your calculation); increasing the investment time an extra 7 years. Go for it if you totally renovate your house tho.

[@HeatGeek]

Not the conclusion I drew

[@SprocketN]

I recently had to do a gas safety course for work, not related to domestic equipment. Where I work we have a lot of gas fired furnaces. We discussed hydrogen as an alternative to natural gas and our trainer said that the primary issue with hydrogen is containing it. Hydrogen molecules are small, so small that they can pass through many materials and jointing methods currently used to safely contain the larger molecules of natural gas. He had recently moved to this job, having previously worked as a trainer for a boiler manufacturer. He said their R&D department were struggling to make hydrogen equipment safe enough to be used in domestic environments and and so are the distribution companies.

[@WakoJacKooo]

i too have also heard this , literally any pipework hydrogen goes in has to be completely leak free,, no millibar permissable drop , period ,, and all the dodgy gas fitters out there i can guarentee explosions once a month

[@stevenpitera8978]

For us in Northeast USA near Boston/Rhode Island we also have a unique problem that makes the heat pumps solo heating your home not a very good idea. They increased our winter electric rates to 30 cents a kWh. But our maine/vermont cousins have very cheap electric so they didnt notice this issue (back when maine was being used as the marketing research done on heat pumps). Flipside, alot of houses in the northeast do not have AC systems (most have window ACs) so the electric cost for cooling is usually higher here. So heat pumps help cool the house more economically and efficiently than those window AC units. But what is ending up is that heat pump users don't have natural gas to fall back on, and oils prices were much worse than the heat pumps. Instead alot of us are looking into wood stoves, which are getting a 30% tax credit for any purchased in 2022-2040. So the better heating/cooling setup is to buy/cut a couple of cords of wood and manage a 2k square foot wood stove that can burn for 30+ hours after about an hour of heating up the stove waiting for the burn mechanism to engage.

[@uksupporter8867]

If I looked at a house without a heat pump it will not stop me buying it, why would it, EPC are basically pointless , also if a person looks at your house and says oh no heat pump, just deduct the cost don’t waste your money with no recuperation in fitting it, also heat pumps do not work near the coast.oh and my gas boiler service cost cost £60 no where near what you claim

[@rogeroeyen]

For a new build it surely is a no brainer, but I would not opt for an air sourced heat pump if I had the choice. For the replacement of a functioning central heating system on natural gas, the situation is completely different and I seriously doubt the validity of the reductions you mentioned. I agree with the deduction of the price difference in case you actually need to replace the existing installation, but if it is still functional this is not a valid deduction. Also the replacement of the copper cylinder is not something inherent to a every heating installation. We do not have a separate cylinder for warm water and simply do not need to replace it. I also don't understand how you can get to a deduction by moving things around or upgrading your radiators. Looks to me that this will only generate a higher cost. How about maintenance cost? A heat pump is a lot more complex than a simple gas installation, meaning that a lot of parts can break and moving parts will inherently results in wear, lubricant usage etc...... My own installation (natural gas and a HR+ condensing Junkers boiler with maintenance contract) is now 10 years old and the total maintenance and repair cost over this period comes down to 175€/year, including the mandatory inspections, repairs and replacement parts. Prior to my retirement we installed an air sourced heat pump for the heating and cooling of our office building, which had a volume of about 4 times the volume of my home and the yearly maintenance cost alone was more than 2000€ (repairs not included). I have no idea of the cost for a home installation, but if this is proportional to the volume or the output, it's an additional cost of more than 300€/year. To put this in perspective, my yearly bill for gas at home was, until last year, between 800 and 950 €/year. (Currently it's about triple and I expect that we will never see the low prices again thanks to our political leaders.) If the existing installation was properly calculated, the radiators will for certain be undersized and need to be replaced. It's even possible that you also need to replace the piping and adapt the electric wiring to cope with the new system. The value of your property is very subjective and you will only get that benefit when you sell your home. Most people do not buy or build their home with the intention to sell it and will remain in the same house for the rest of their live. If your installation is 10 years or older at the time you put your house on the market, the buyer will take in account that he will eventually need to replace it, no matter if it's on gas or a heat pump. Also the life expectancy of such an installation needs to be taken in consideration. The average life expectancy of a heat pump installation is comparable with a gas boiler, but the replacement cost is a lot higher. A high end gas boiler cost between 1200 and 2000 € while a heat pump is 3 to 4 times more expensive. Subsidies (lower in my country than in the UK) may reduce the cost of a heat pump by a few thousand €'s but it still remains way more expensive than a gas boiler. If you're forced to go for an air sourced heat pump, there is also the matter of noise. A friend of mine changed from a gas heater to a heat pump and had to move the outside unit further away from the house due to the annoying sound the thing makes and it turned out that the losses due to the longer distance were too high to heat his house properly in winter.

[@JaneBloggs-jr9qd]

excellent comments that did not receive a response from the uploader who clearly has a dog in the fight

[@waynecharlton6388]

Great comments, my worry is there will be a lot of companies in the UK popping up installing retro fit systems in existing properties. They will promise big savings on bills and better heating. But once you have paid your money and then find out you are not getting the savings on your initial outlay these companies will be long gone with your cash.

[@sb-fj4er]

@@waynecharlton6388exactly

[@spyrule]

I realize this is UK, but in Canada at the moment, there is a heck of a tax being applied to gas. By getting rid of gas, I save a monthly tax/delivery cost of $100/month. My hydro bill has a delivery fee of only $25/m. My overhead cost is only $9k over a simple replacement in place. BUT, the tax on gas is going all the way up to 0.33c/M3 by 2030. So my gas cost would skyrocket over the next 7 years. I would save that $9k in about 9 years when taking into consideration the coming higher tax rate.

[@crawfordgriffiths3267]

You ask fitters from countrys that have been fitting them for a few years ask them if they have them fitted and a lot will tell you NO! waste of time and money a con unless you put it in a new build house you are wasting your money.

[@tonystanley5337]

Heat pumps are also too expensive and ineffective, to be use widespread. Resistive is actually much cheaper to install and only a little worse in the cold winter where were use 80% of our heating energy. Geothermal district heating would probably work for cities. The first thing is insulation of course, why we are not throwing money at that makes no sense. My last 2 rented homes had empty cavities and minimal roof insulation, as well as exceptional drafts, all fixable of course. I think the main thing to concentrate on is draft proofing and to setup a test requirement like that used for new build and passive houses, maybe include MHRV. Setting that up and forcing the testing will eventually cause the draft proofers and insulators to improve their skill.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Resistive is insanely expensive.

[@tonystanley5337]

@@rogerphelps9939Its not, a resistive heater cost 10s of $/£ . A heat pump running at a COP of 1 cost the same to run.

[@rogerphelps9939]

It does. But a properly designed and installed heat pump should never get that low. The lowest my heat pump has ever been is 2.9 and most of the time it is around 4. It is an inverter driven ground source unit which helps though.@@tonystanley5337

[@davefroman4700]

Producing steel with H2 actually makes it cheaper to produce, not more expensive. And in that process you use a lot less H2 than you do with coal. Secondly their is now an option that does not use either.

[@robertosfield]

Excellent video, but would be interesting to see an updated one for current status of heat-pumps vs gas boilers vs hydrogen and whether there is movement in the right direction from the new Labour government. From what I understand the hydrogen heating side looked largely dead on arrival even before Labour got in. Household batteries are now also much cheaper so the potential for using low cost power for running HPs is more viable.

[@pedrolopes3542]

The funny thing is that since the 70s that companies like Mitsubishi, Itachi and many other Korean and Japanese companies have been making cool air conditioning units that are basically heat pumps that move the heat out, with a good insulation, a solar heater and a large water storage tank, it should be possible to keep the house warm during the night and recharge the hot water tank during the day (the solar heater needs to be snow free) while using the same technology that Mitsubishi has been using for 50 years, but in reverse.

[@HeatGeek]

Shame they haven't improved on them

[@vinquinn]

I have a house in Greece in an area where it gets down to 0 degrees or a little cooler. I have 3 inverter split unit AC's in the house and a small electric heater in the bathroom which is used for taking a bath. It goes over 40 degrees in the summer also. During the winter it is very comfortable 21 or 22 degrees in the house. No hassle of installation. There are many dealers and installers in Greece. Costs about 150 to install. They work very well, last a long time, and they are quiet. a unit costs between 800 and 1000 Euro. Worst case, a unit fails completely, you throw it out and get another. Plus you have great cooling in the winter. Heat pumps that heat water do not cool your house in the summer, an absolute necessity in Greece.

[@pedrolopes3542]

@@HeatGeek "they" have.

[@kaf2303]

Scheme is good word for the Hydrogen plan. It just a plan to make a lot of rich people richer. Hydrogen has way too many negatives that have not been resolved. Geothermal sourced heat pumps with infloor hydronic systems are the best way to heat IMO. I am building a heat pump to supplement my solar hot water collection/ wood heat to eliminate the wood burning. My PV system will power the heat pump. Cheers

[@geoffhaylock6848]

All the energy used by cars and all the energy in gas for cooking and heating can be put onto our existing electrical grid with no upgrades. I can't be the only one that thinks we are heading for some huge electrical bills to upgrade the national grid.

[@uksupporter8867]

It’s ok saying heat pumps can be charged up over night on cheaper electric but when everyone does that the overnight price will go up , so make heat pumps more expensive, like the government asking us to not cook etc until 8pm , but want us to have electric cars, most people plug their cars in when they get home so around 6pm

[@scottegner306]

Can’t see us going down the ASHP route again. Had one installed in previous home. We didn’t have great expectations but were attracted by the RHI scheme and wanted rid of the oil boiler. The MCS approved installer spent a good deal of time at the property doing the calcs and sizing radiators. Pump worked fine and we were fairly happy with it (probably because we didn’t have high expectations), yet I don’t think it ever reached a cop of 200%. This was also being supplemented by a hybrid masonry wood burner. Cost 13.5k (including extra radiators). Oh and the RHI payments don’t follow you when you move home! 😮

[@donkey1271]

The cost is often easily overlooked. No point in saving 100 quid a year if you're dropping 13k on an install, at that point most homes are better off either utilizing solar and an immersion heater to use excess power or investing in the fabric of the house and reducing your energy requirements.

[@JaneBloggs-jr9qd]

whats the point of spending so much to get low expectations? all that work should only be with high expectationbs

[@lesleycassell]

We moved in to our converted barn 9 years ago (bought from a previous owner who didn't really live in it). It has an ECODAN ASHP for underfloor heating and hot water. It is expensive to run and gives nothing back. I have turned off the heating and replaced it with 3 Everett stoves, which are really good. Although the hot water is set to 24hrs it is always cold, so we have to repeatedly use the boost button (up to 3 times) to heat water for washing up etc. I have really struggled to find anyone to offer a service, the original installers have gone. I have recently contacted a company I saw on a recommendation of our local face book page who wants £400 plus vat and extra if the glycol needs topping up. Luckily I have a gas Aga (aims programmable) which help to heat the property; gas central heating would be preferable but with the cost to convert and net zero agenda this is not a possibility. I am so frustrated!!

[@clive4500]

getting a heat pump serviced can be very expensive daikon also wants a power flush by an approved contractor which can cost £2000 if they do it correctly which in my mother's house they haven't.. The grants are given out by the government the guarantee by the installer is one year.. If there's something wrong and they haven't flush the system properly you're into another 2k as by using some other person to flush it who isn't approved will invalidate your three-year guarantee with your heat pump.. they installed a monobloc heat pump with a house with radiators built in 1938.. Systems expensive to run.. And we're gonna probably have to add a combination boiler to the system... And also remember that global warming man-made is a complete lie and con.. If you are stupid enough to believe that dairy cows are having a measurable effect on the temperature of the planet.. Then you would also believe that a fly passing wind in a football stadium would also be a measurable event... Apart from the fact that we actually need more CO2 at .04% if it drops to .03 plants start to Die... Wake up people the world economic Forum is a force for evil and they're playing you.. Using the ignorant left..hopefully when Trump gets back in in 2024 he can throw out all this green crap and drill baby drill for oil reducing the price of oil worldwide ..and hopefully exposing the green con

[@arpadvarga3475]

Octopus gave me a quote I would have to pay only 3000£...not convinced... especially not sure would work in my home 😔 I have 3.2 kWh solar with 6.5 kWh battery already but it does absolutely minimum at winter time.

[@kodi-78]

Heat pump cost can be as low as 3000£ with installation. Ready monobloks are being shipped to Poland from China all taxes paid and shipment for under 2000$ - yes dollars. Those are 12kW. R290 - And cheaper if less kW heatpump monoblock. That tells you little bit of how much money middle man takes

[@JonathanFunkhouseMonkhouse]

After the BUS grant my installation/upgrade cost is going to be £700 by Octopus. I’m swapping out a ~40 year old gas boiler. My ROI will be about 3 years I think. Woop!

[@01theloneranger]

All the arguments for heat pumps are a distraction from the facts. They will NOT heat your house to the temperature YOU want. Also your premise that property value will increase is just wrong. My neighbor has been unable to sell his very nice house because he has a heat pump. The estate agent said all the potential buyers gave the reason for pulling was the heat pump.

[@MagicianMan]

As always I enjoy your content. I agree with a large proportion of your points. However I do have a few issues. (1) "offsetting" the cost of a heat pump into the house price increase/decrease feels a little spurious for most people. There will come a time when it factors into the decision but probably NOT until around 2035 when the law changes (assuming there isn't a U-turn). (2) Cost of installing gas to buildings, in fairness that's a valid argument however new builds should all be built with 3 phase electric supplies to be able to adequately provide the houses with bidirectional electricity supply - which will increase the cost - probably still a saving but less than £30k. (3) Third there is a huge amount of housing stock that doesn't have adequate electricity supply into the property. Either on 60A supplies or looped supply. Who will ensure that the DNO's carry out the work required in a timely manner? They still haven't completed the "smart meter" installation that was originally due to be completed by 2020 but got pushed until 2025! (4) Again housing stock issues e.g. Terraced houses, typically have limited space at the rear with electric supply to the front of the house. As far as I am aware, it is not permitted to install ASHP onto the front of many houses so where would you install them? That being the case I can see a terrible future where "Electric Boilers" are installed by those on low incomes, landlords who want to comply with regulations on the cheap and, sadly, disreputable councils (of which there are many!). (5) EPC's if you speak to the 'experts' about how an EPC is calculated its mostly a calculation based on the size of your rooms and the fabric of the building. Yes there are some % points for using LED bulbs etc but the weighting for things such as Solar PV at best move you up the scale by 1 point but they always give an estimate of the cost of doing this. I had an EPC done when selling my house it cost me £50 and the guy was present for 30 mins maybe tops (the estate agent wanted £75 and would have used the same person but charged me £25 for the pleasure). How much work doe you think is involved for £50? The biggest issue that faces the industry is the government. Doesn't matter who is in power they are only interested in monetary policy in 4 year stints of governance. Solar PV has been in place for over 25 years now and it still isn't LAW that ALL new builds should have Solar PV installed. We still have an overly complicated process with DNO's being able to charge or outright refuse to permit larger Solar PV installations and with a bigger draw on local electric distribution hubs that is likely to get worse as the phase balancing on transformers gets more difficult. Lets provide some context: The government bailed out the banks in 2008. When they sold the shares in Lloyds TSB Group they lost money on the deal. How does that work?? We should have recouped our costs at the minimum or remained shareholders until the paid dividends offset the cost to the taxpayer. Why did they permit the banks, who all took public money to keep them afloat, to continue to pay bonuses whilst they were effectively shareholders. As someone further down has mentioned we subsidize the Oil and Gas industry to the tune of billions of pounds per year, why? The rail networks have been subsidised by the public for the last 40years (or more). So why, when we are paying something like 30-40% per ticket price are we giving them money to allow them to pay bonuses to management? When COVID loans to keep them afloat were made the Scottish government chose to re-nationalise them. The English government had the exact same opportunity but instead decided to give them low or zero rate loans AND permit them to continue to "make profit" and pay bonuses in the following years. I heard on the radio today the a large number of councils across the UK have suspended Summer Holiday meal vouchers for low income families. We are talking about £15 per week per child for the lowest income families in England (Wales has maintained the payments across all regions). Some, but not all, councils are offering activities and meal groups as an alternative. How is that even permissible when inflation is up 13% and energy will have tripled in cost come October. Sorry got off topic there a little but I think you get the gist.

[@jORDNjAMESmuSICk]

I have a grand invention. It's called a wood stove. Uh oh the carbon issue.... Plant trees and let photosynthesis do it's thing. And if u want to fix the climate, quit spraying crap out of the back of airplanes and calling it con trails. There, fixed all the dumb problems for y'all. Ur welcome.

[@BakersShaker]

The problem isn't having more government help (paid for by us) its the way the installers are fleecing the system. The government should have created set prices for what they can charge for a heat pump when getting a grant as if they increase the grant the installer just increase the price. Charging 15k for what is 5k in material is ridiculous. One day to spec system, one day labour for install and profit should not be 10K!

[@rickhughes954]

Bit of'shock' tactics, I built a self-build, cost on putting gas in was £310 not £30,000 Admit I dug the trench and put the pipe in myself. Batteries you say are a 'no brainer' that wears out on a phone, ipad, laptop ..... the battery. They degraded and reduce in capacity from day 1 ...... maybe when a newer battery technology arrivers, but current cost, weight, size & longevity does not make batteries a 'no brainer' Especially if the government steps in and makes end-of-life environmental charges to dispose of batteries.

[@dus10dnd]

Hydrogen is a waste. Period. It is an inefficient process. No matter what you say, until we have excess global electricity, there is no way it makes sense to make hydrogen. Until that point, it will always make sense to just use the energy for electricity. EDIT: And no... there is no argument against it. Physics has spoken. The only way you can be financially viable is with subsidies and that is just bad for everyone. There are more efficient things that cost less. Subsidies exist to try to convince people to do something that doesn't make economic sense. It cost me $3200 to install a heat pump two weeks ago. You guys must be doing horribly stupid things in the UK.

[@DigitalPosion]

You say "it varies nopanacea" and then go ahead with using the best case scenario of 32% cheaper to run. Surely you should have accounted for variation and said 0% cheaper to run on average with current gas vs electricity prices. Which is a big stumbling block and elephant in the room. Now how you sell this product to a customer whole admitting they may not see any reduction in bills whatsoever?

[@DeneF]

Council just put air pump and solar in our bungalow but the old cavity insulation is perished and has many voids of many feet on all 3 walls. This causes massive damp because of the temperature difference in the wall cavity because of the voids and of course the insulation is hardly any use but believe it or not they have refused to extract the old perished insulation and re insulate. The solar system has no battery either. So, all in all, whilst it sounds like we have been lucky we have actually been shafted. We are so angry! Just a box ticking project for the carbon neutral scheme 2050 but we are paying more to run this system than we did our calor gas system (we live rural).

[@JaneBloggs-jr9qd]

indeed they just want to look good , you would have been better off if they had left you alone

[@thomasl2974]

This is not how you calculate the feasbility of an investment. Every pennny you put into something now and in the future should be conciderd for the year the cost occur. Every penny you put into your heating bill should be acoounted for the year it occurs. These amounts per year should then be discounted to the value today. This is called a net present value calculation. In the case you invest in heating a home it is always a negative value. Do this exercise for all alternatives and choose the one where you lose least amount of money. When engineers start to talk finance it almost always go wrong. Everybody else knows it but themselves. I like your insights into the different technologies though.

[@3D_Printing]

12:00 Nuclear Fusion too cheap to meter, like they tool us about Nuclear Fission power plants

[@nackway]

An additional reason hydrogen is not going to work is that it would be an all or nothing. You can’t pump gas and hydrogen down the same pipes / you won’t get all folk in an area to jump to hydrogen in unison given the investment required. You’ll therefore see a need to duplicate infrastructure throughout the country. Too expensive.

[@daryldiamond5330]

A natural gas powered heat pump could be even more thermal and cost efficient than an electric heat pump. Heat from the gas engine would be recouped as part of the heat for the home. In addition, natural gas pipelines are underground and more resilient than overhead electric transmission lines. To see the vulnerability of pure electric heating, check the experience in Quebec, Canada, where many rely on electric alone.

[@gino2465]

Nothing you say on this video can be seen as biased for sure. £15k to install a heat pump to a old home is not viable. Having cheap tariffs is fantastic but you have to have a smart meter thousands of homes cannot have smart meters to obtain cheap EV tarifs or one off payments to do washing at night. Then next thing is if you have all this tech and basically it's all electric , if your in winter and you suffer a power cut and it's been said we could because the UK has been affected by the war. Would you be happy having all your assits in one basket. So most people can with a very small petrol generator keep warm using there gas or oil burner without any huge issues in situations. If your fully electric your not going to be able to do this you need bigger equipment. In the real world where we have average family's, can they afford a heat pump. So yes we need bigger grants. I personally want a heat pump and a gas or oil burner working together for every eventuality in the future.

[@jeffreyroberts7438]

Heat pump manufacturers suggest they are kept on all the time,so trying to use ‘cheaper’ electricity cost periods doesn’t apply. Also, at the moment some electricity companies are offering cheaper electricity rates for heat pumps, in the future if everyone has changed these rates will obviously disappear. You obviously sell heat pumps😂

[@davetaylor4741]

Basically UK is stuffed. They won't get down to the contracted level. They will be paying the fines and that will ultimately be paid by the consumer. Thank you politicians as usual who don't care because they make lots of money. Domestic solar storage batteries now viable ? Not according to nearly every eco energy guru in Australia. We get in Qld on average 300 days of Sun per year and yet we are told unless you have to be off grid don't even consider installing a battery system. Super expensive. Very short life span. And there have been quite a few house fires started by the lithium ones. Our energy suppliers are starting to install flow battery storage charged by solar. This might be a better solution for us. For the UK who knows. Hydrogen costly up front. Once in like before but cleaner. Heat pumps. New build possibly. Most refurbs no. If the answer to low emissions is electric powered everything then spend the billions on improved ways of generating it cleanly. Produce high volumes of clean electricity and make the cost to the consumer low enough they don't have to worry what they use. Most powerful force on earth water. Sea Power. Sea floor generators linked in tandem. Plug and play units you lift out for service or repair. Tried before yes but with a decent budget no. RV technology is now pretty good for general underwater work. A decent set up should be possible. Whatever if I still lived in the UK would I want a heat pump system. No.

[@JonnyR1981]

Dave if a house is designed right underfloor heating good insulation low air change rate etc air source heat pumps are totally viable. The technology and how the scavenger heat is great. But there is no cost savings to retrofitting. Even the airsource heat pump ready new building regulations will cause issues as you will have oversized pipe radiators etc for gas boiler that typically work at higher temperatures and you won't see it happening for 10year + as developers use loop holes I.e when they register the site with local authorities build notice.

[@justinwhite2725]

5:43 this animation is disingenuous. If you are going to deduct these costs you have to deduct them from both sides (or just remove the one you are no longer comparing) You are showing a bad comparison even if what you are saying makes sense. If you are trying to convince people, this hurts you because it's the kind of bad statistics that make people like me reject everything else you have to say.

[@justinwhite2725]

This also doesnt seem to take into account hot water. Gas furnace does both, most talk of heat pumps are for air conditioning. So your discounts to boiler dont matter if you also need a boiler for water. 17:29 oh ok. I guess you heat water with electricity so thats why its not part of your discussion. Thats not how it works where i live (natural gas is abundant) so thats another system that would need to be installed. And given that we dont have good conditions for renewables it would jst be robbing peter to pay paul. Or energy grid relies on coal and natural gas. Solar and wind habe challenges here that make them unviable and our government is resistant to nuclear.

[@michaelplunkett8059]

I love how he ignores the source of the hydrogen he talks about. It comes from cracking natural gas. Not clean, not cheap, just hidden.

[@iamtoooldtocare]

I wish you people would get your facts straight over this business of gas boilers being removed from the market. The government have yet to pass any legislation regarding a ban on the installation of gas boilers in new builds. The idea was put forward several years ago but has not yet received the green light.

[@MrNorthstar50]

Heat pumps can't compare with natural gas, they can only provide so much heat and then the electric heat strips turn on and your running your compressor all year long with a heat pump. I have had them both on new homes here in Texas and I will never own another heat pump.

[@definitelynotadam]

So what you are saying the UK national grid is going to be ready to support that massive change in energy demand by 2035? Yeah, good luck.

[@waqasahmed939]

Thanks for touching on the labour costs. I had a thought about that too and figured that the main reason why ground source heat pumps cost more isn't the material (though it plays a part), but its absolutely the labour which will probably go up in price I'd love it if a GSHP cost less than 10K for a vertical drop but sadly that costs 30K currently. I don't have the space for horizontal loops

[@reck0n3r]

I've read that the cost for vertical bore drilling should come down quite a bit over the next 10 years due to improvements in technology, but let's see if that actually happens.

[@dave4882]

heavily depends on location

[@rodolphedrolet6994]

Battery back up solar cost for home average in states 30000 dollars that was before deflation of the joey plan ,,,,,,it will be a starting point

[@jimdiet8534]

Heat from Electric is 5 times higher in the USA than natural gas. The average "delivered"(please look at your bill) per KHW is around .20. There is 29.3 KHW per 1000,000 BTU's. 1 delivered CCF is less than 1 dollar. The efficiency on a new boiler is about 83% to 92% depending on water temp. Average around 85% which works out to approximately $4.98 for electric vs 1 dollar for Natural gas.

[@HeatGeek]

I dont live there but as far as I knew It's completely state dependant. Some states have almost free electricity from hydro power

[@HeatGeek]

A quick Google says average electric is $0.166 for electricity in Oct 22 and gas is $0.046. Ad a new gas boiler is 85% efficienct you'll only need a cop of 3.

[@jimdiet8534]

@@HeatGeek They do not include delivery and taxes. 1 ccf of gas is about 100k BTU or 29.3KWH of electric. All in for gas delivered, taxes, meter charge is less than $1. Even if all in for electric is .16 as your Google says, that is 4.69 x .85= $3.98 which is 4 assuming electric was %100 converted. It's not. This is a lot of assumption on the electric side and in your scenario a $600 heating bill goes to $2400. The average in the US is 5 to 7 times higher. New York state is mandating everyone switches by 2030. This is total insanity.

[@ercanyilmaz8108]

Rhe heat pump is a beta product in my opinion which needs to developed further the coming years. For this reason I try to stay away from it as much as possible.

[@melange78]

15k what are you talking about? A heat pump for 100m2 should not exceed 200 EUR.

[@jamesbowskill362]

All these presentations are FORGETTING THAT UK ELECTRICITY IS CONTROLLED BY FOREIGN COMPANIES....WHOSE MAIN INTEREST IS MAKING HUGE PROFITS....IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY AS OUR ELECTRICITY PRICES KEEP INCREASING & WILL INCREASE FOR EVER AS LONG AS FOREIGNERS CONTROL OUR SUPPLIES...... EVERYONE IN THE UK IS BEING DUPED.....

[@BenIsInSweden]

And the gas industry doesn't have a main interest in making money? Also if electricity prices increase the demand for solar and batter storage will increase, so you can generate your own. Can't do that with Gas.

[@emameyer]

a top of the line ASHP (samsung/hitachi) is ~3k£, the install of the cylinder is another 2k£ (mixergy). add some work and profit you end up at 7k£. maybe 8£. if you then deduct the government grant (BUS) the true cost of installing an ASHP should be under 3k£ to the end user.... but the heat pump install market is a racket that overcharges 3x over the cost of the equipment: I got 7 quotes, both from small local companies and huge muiltinational corporations (named after neighbouring countries or seafood...): all came in the same range at a whooping 15-18k£, all without any change of radiators, before government grant deduction (so 8-13k£ after BUS). I bought the equipment (ASHP and Cylinder) and arranged for an MCS certified installer to come and do the install of the ASHP and apply for the grant. my final out of pocket cost was 3.5k£, and the installer pocketed the BSU directly from the government.

[@HeatGeek]

Absolutely miles out, there is no conspiracy to overcharge amongst all installers.

[@emameyer]

@@HeatGeekthanks for replying. First, I didn't say there was a conspiracy. Second, fact is that when I asked for quotes they all magically came in the same range and when I bought the equipment and just hired the install it cost me a fraction. It may be a coordinated or uncoordinated cartel but when a private Mr Nobody like me can get it done at a fraction of the cost quoted by all the companies I've contacted I doubt there isn't some sort of price alignment. Then again I may have been just incredibly unlucky. Happy to have a chat if you want.

[@brianforgie7050]

My experience is heat pumps don't work in older homes or you're telling me everyone has been fitted wrong everyone I know heating bills have at least doubled most have switched the system off can't afford to switch it on bought a gas heater if you stay where its cold and dry they work Scotland is cold and wet does not work should have fitted ground source as Forth is built on top of mines was ment to have happened but didn't may work in England

[@HeatGeek]

Yep.. crap installs. We have loads installed in old homes in Scotland running cheaper than gas boilers. The industry will get there!

[@JohnnyFD]

FYI in other countries you can buy an install a heat pump (mini split a/c and heater unit) for less than $1,000 per room.

[@residenceemerod5080]

You are talking about air/air heat pump. Air/water heat pump (which heats up radiators and UFH and sanitary hot water) is much more expensive to buy and to install.

[@geoffbailey768]

Ps these systems need inhibiter antifreeze made from petroleum or are you going to say plant based and destroy more rainforest. Its a bit like electric car owners destroying with there lithium batteries

[@HeatGeek]

They don't "need" antifreeze at all. Antifreeze valves are more than adequate

[@phillycheesetake]

The hydrogen lark needs to end. It's an expensive and dangerous distraction.

[@odetterollinson-davies4543]

Loved the video as always however your arguments re EPC & property values just isn’t credible I’m afraid. The epc ratimg and/or main heat source just doesn’t affect property values in the manner (or level) you indicate but of course may in 10 or 20 years

[@HeatGeek]

As per tye video "we aren't there yet, butvas time moves forth things will only move this way"

[@chrisracer2007]

I live in Greece and I think at least for the hotter climates the cooling function is a factor to take into consideration!

[@Account_CB]

Unless you are planning to sell your home down the line after installing a heat pump, then the point about your house price value increasing is meaningless...if you arent planning to move you will never crystallize that 'gain in value'. Further, if you do sell & move presumably you are going to want to buy a property already upgraded & energy efficient...in which case any 'gain' you do realise will be wiped out on the new property purchase. Even after spending c25k (av air to air/ground source eat pump inc labour based on c3 bed home)...the aesthetic repair work to your home will be a further cost...i.e wall repair, painting etc... (you could argue this is a future cost of a refresh anyway...but once you install the heat pump...the decorating refresh work cost is now a cost bought forward) On top of this pre-install of a heat pump...you'll likely need to pay to update your house insulation, doors & windows, potential even photo voltaic solar panels...which are further 'hidden additional costs' - if you dont do this then it would reduce any efficiency/cost gains you'd get from installing the heat pump alone. Soo taking these together the overall cost impact for a heat pump install (to ensure the energy is captured by the home efficiently)...is low end c. av 25k - higher end pushing 50k+) Now assuming people don't have such capital readily available...then presumably we have to factor in additional interest /finance charges (ive not even included an estimate of these!!) In addition i have purposefully avoided inc any grant (BUS ends 2028), as who's to say such schemes will either exist or be as 'generous' when mass migration begins. All in all this is going to put massive pressure on lower/middle income families/the elderly & the government are not being transparent on preparing households for this future overall investment hit...[hence why channels like yours are trying to help in that sense, by filling the lack of government information) Then as you say maintenance & installers isnt a mature market in terms of expertise...so the likely risk of issues arising is high & therefore people need to understand what any warranty period is post installation & what the process is for seeking a resolution & how quickly those issues can be resolved + whether there are any hidden additional costs) All in all...i can see 'watchdog' & panorama having a field day producing programs about the harm this is all going to create for households. Of course some people will have a flawless upgrade & should therefore be swimming in the piles of saved cash .. picture Scrooge McDuck...but of course this will not be the case for the vast majority & in the UK we'd be crazy to assume any install of anything goes to plan.

[@BenIsInSweden]

"Unless you are planning to sell your home down the line after installing a heat pump, then the point about your house price value increasing is meaningless...if you arent planning to move you will never crystallize that 'gain in value'. " It adds remortgage value as well, so if you want to do other home improvements, you'll get the value from it there, so doesn't have to be selling is the only option to get a monetary benefit out of it.

[@Paul-q3m7k]

Lol this is hilarious . No refrigeration ticket ? Can’t instal heat pumps ?