Heavy Intercessors vs Intercessors - which Primaris Troops Squad is better?

[@jonathandupree8562]

I for one welcome our new Gravis overlords and look forward to unnecessarily making an all Gravis army.

[@belgdude]

Playing IH a looong time, waited for full-gravis army since first agressor kit! Dreams come true

[@thetoadman3172]

you doing ok now?

[@bryanwalsh1107]

I look forward to the Heavy-Heavy Intercessors.

[@bloodofsanguinius4222]

You mean heavy assault intercessors?

[@bryanwalsh1107]

@@bloodofsanguinius4222 I was joking but yes those too!

[@bloodofsanguinius4222]

Bryan Walsh a unit of intercessors all in miniature baby cages, the ultimate heavy intercessor

[@little_isalina]

Heavy Assault Heavy Intercessors with heavy light heavy macro assault boltstorm pistol gauntlets

[@MalcadorTheSigilite]

Pimaris heavy primaris intercessors

[@bryal7811]

That one guy who plays 216 fire warriors is sweating bullets right now.

[@DaneTheInsane675]

its actually almost possible, though it would be 3 battalions with 2 Cadre Fireblade each, and ends up with 192 fire warriors at the price of 1998 points for it all

[@georgestauber2636]

Not really. Guess what gets shot at first when you're playing a horde firepower army.

[@DaneTheInsane675]

@@georgestauber2636 I was just stating that it is possible tot take that, though I am not sure it can be recommended, maybe with Necron warriors though, they can take a bit of a beating.

[@Novasky2007]

I think i could actually field that many

[@Tylran]

As a slight side note: taking the heavy bolter on the Heavy Intercessors gives you an option to use Hellfire shells Stratagem, which allows you to put out some Mortal wounds. The advantage of the assault version of the heavy bolter is that the stratagem is accurate (enough) even if the squad moves. Still, regular heavy bolt rifles and heavy bolters seem better anyways, especially if you're camping at a back objective or mid-field objective which has decent firing arcs.

[@Cha-Khia]

I'm partial to the executor bolt weapons, if only because flat 2-3 damage.

[@gothwrangler8097]

This is a trick question. The real answer is assault Intercessors

[@ItsDeadlock]

Heavy assault intercessors

[@turtlehead8386]

Agressors do the job for you except they hit like a bus not a shredder

[@seansterling8715]

i realize I am kind of off topic but does anyone know a good place to watch newly released series online?

[@turtlehead8386]

@@seansterling8715 If you mean Warhammer + u gotta pay them to watch it. I remember they linked it in one of their articles

[@terratheterribl]

I desperately want a gravis lieutenant to round out an army, it's my favorite unit. But with the outrage over them I doubt I'll ever see one.

[@KOAHUNT3R]

If GW actually cared about outrage, then maybe. Don't fret, I'm sure we'll see a Heavy Lieutenant when the new Marine codex drops next year witha new boxset with a new wave of Primaris at the respectable cost of $50 for just the Lieutenant.

[@nicholassmith7984]

I'd like to see a Terminator Lieutenant first.

[@rhuulu110]

As a Dark Angels successor player who plays 1st company heavy with terminators and aggressors these guys look amazing and I am hyped to have a unit that holds a weapon with two hands lol

[@Nobleshield]

I would take Heavies just to be able to have a most/all Gravis army

[@starrius]

that's how i feel i think the ammount of models you lose makes it a hard choice to take more than maybe 1 unit

[@crimsonfisto1696]

What you painting them as ?

[@tomhughes1055]

Good luck finding opponents...

[@JohnQBrown]

Really prefer painting Intercessors though. Fewer edges to highlight.

[@tomhughes1055]

@@chetmanley1885 full of obliterators and heavy intercessors, arguably two of if not the two most powerful marine units rn

[@peeledapples4176]

I think a mix of the two will be king. Intercessors for the mobility and damage output (especially in combat) and Heavies as back and midfield ovjective campers. Either way, my Imperial Fists are happy!

[@SolomonGunn]

A 100% gravis army has been my dream since I got my first Aggressor.

[@christophersmith8848]

Same

[@REDN0AK]

it really says alot about the game... when heavy intercessors or even regular intercessors cost as much as frikkin small ork boy unit xD

[@Smiffe]

Heavy intersessors looks better as a model :P That's enough for me

[@ParianKnight]

Why not take the grenade launcher on the intersessors? It is assault now and can be fired along with the rifle. Right?

[@interceptor2407]

5pts though

[@zacharynewman897]

5 points for a little extra punch into a vehicle or horde unit isn't a bad deal, but it's also not the sort of thing you add until after everything else you want is in the list already and you still have points to spend.

[@Silverdragon83X]

The 9th edition is all about objectives and her is the point. HEavy Intercessors are expensive in points, but the toughness of 5 makes the difference in taking damage... Of course for the points you get more interecessor models, that makes you more flexible, but in most points the Heavies are better. As I play (amongst other chapters) Deathwatch and Iron Hands I need them anyway...

[@scrubsrc4084]

I've not lost in 9th yet playing mostly custodes and they just camp objectives and are a bitch to shift before they rack up too many vp

[@primafacie5029]

I have 5 aggressors already. Can't wait to form a unit with 5 heavy intercessor marines.

[@rickyl3136]

@@primafacie5029 that would be fun to play again. Seeing all the heavy units just walking up the board sound epic and scary.

[@Mordredt]

This unit alone has me wanting to make Imperial Fists

[@Mikazuchireborn]

The Gravis Armour also work as a hard counter to Castellan Axes used by Custodes. The Castellan Axes lets Custodes hit at S8 and AP-2, enough to 2+ wound marines and with a fairly decent chance of penetrating armour. The Gravis Armour's T5 completely nullifies this. The Axes ends up performing worse overall, wounding only on 3+ (the same as the S6 AP-3 Spear, but with even less armour penetration). They also do DD3 damage, so even if the axe manages to slip through, you're looking at a 1/3 chance of killing a Gravis Marine in a single blow. EDIT: The Axes have the Castellan Strike Stratagem, which adds an extra -1 to AP.... so for the low price of 1 command point, my expensive axes can perform as well as a cheaper, unbuffed Guardian Spear. Not to mention, the Guardian Spears have the 1CP Piercing Strike stratagem, which is a straight up +1 to wound.

[@dank1893]

I actually think the Intercessor grenade launcher is well worth the points as now you now get to fire it in addition to your bolt rifle. People would pay 5 pts for a storm bolter, this is a better weapon in my opinion, will also maximize the effectiveness of the new rapid fire strat too. If you just want them as cheap as possible or have them advancing don't bother but in a unit of 10 taking 2 grenade launcher will be well worth it in my opinion will easily earn its points back most of the time.

[@RJALEXANDER777]

I love the heavies, if only because I feel it brings the Space Marines in line with what they should've always been in the game. Tough, indomitable infantry with powerful guns wading through waves of lesser warriors. 1W T4 were never sufficient stats for His Angels.

[@nickpelchat1631]

I might run mini-marines as intercessors and Primaris marines as H-Intercessors

[@td1635]

Something to note is that the grenade launcher is an assault weapon and can be fired in addition to the bolt weapon. I'd say that is worth consideration of the 5pts

[@trentathawat6714]

That and the 'Rapid Fire' strat doesn't just allow the Bolter to fire again but the Astartes Grenade Launcher too. With my Ultramarines being able to farm exta CP through warlord traits, special characters, and psychic powers I plan on using this strat every turn. Max 10 man Intercessor squad with 2 x AGLs is a no-brainer.

[@ratz30]

I for one am very excited to drop a big unit of heavy intercessors and a Master of Ambush chaplain on a mid objective at the start of the game with my Raven Guard.

[@samg7430]

I look forward to taking Primaris Lieutenants as a Troop Choice

[@joshuacouture479]

I want death company as a troop choice

[@t.m.t3215]

Then play custodes brother

[@jordank1489]

I'm using them to hold backfield objectives with long range executor rifles. Means they should be able to shrug off a deepstrike from most things except termies, and keep that objective secure while move up the board white scars styley

[@mathewkreideweis3567]

I feel like not mentioning the 5++ potential from librarians on the Heavy variety helps immensely with their durability versus high strength weapons, especially with the Apothecary buffs/healing. It makes them really difficult to shift with just about anything. Basically mini-terminators with built in obsec. I suspect these guys will be getting Force Dome a lot... And Bladeguard cover the melee weakness pretty well and dont need the dome themselves.

[@mr.fetching2267]

What I take away from this is that you are not paying for damage, but durability. The damage sans doctrines is the same when you compare 10-man squads of each. But the Heavies can survive more hate thrown their way. I love it. GW is about to screw me out of money again

[@drowninggames]

Does anyone know when the Heavies are actually out? Can't wait to paint them up.

[@steelshepherd6843]

What they lose in flexibility, they gain in inflexibility...wait a minute...

[@schwerpunkt7687]

❤ all the emphasis on infantry/troops in 9th.

[@WinterWizard7]

Love the idea of a total Gravis themed marine army :) 🧙‍♂️

[@ratbaby3107]

The fact that the bolt rifles are s4 ap -1 makes me really cranky, I miss when gauss rifles were special

[@samuelbutts467]

its a power creep, at the start of 8th edition your chaos cultists and ork boyz actually got to use their save vs normal small arms, thats soon gone by the way side

[@RockmariomkiZX]

@@samuelbutts467 ...not really? We already had Bolt Rifles at S4 AP-1 at the very start of 8E. Not to mention, Cultist and Boyz never really got their saves against anything with decent AP (even back in the good old days of 3e-7e, where most armies (except guard) were likely to have a S4 AP5 weapon versus an Ork's 6+ save). Heck, *regular* bolters (as in Tactical squad bolters) now confer Orks saves, because they're S4 AP0 (or rather, since the start of 8E) but Intercessors always had the AP-1. And this is *new* versus most editions.

[@nicholassmith7984]

If you don't play Primariis, you don't get to be special. That's how it works now.

[@hideshisface1886]

So... Generally speaking - heavies are better objective campers. That being said - the difference in firepower is not really that big, at least on paper. But what is important to note is the fact that heavies, with their increased durability will be losing firepower at slower rate, yet each loss will be a more significant blow. So... Basically it is a trade-off, unless you plan on going into melee at any point.

[@sigmundholt2313]

Definitely sounds like there is a role for both in your army. I look forward to grabbing some for my yellow bois.

[@MrKirbanator]

Same here, love my boys in yellow

[@turtlehead8386]

I come back here after GW teased T5 Orks. These chunky boys are our only line of defence against them now.

[@BobWolf006]

I think assault Intercessors are going to be the best. I still want to have the Heavy Intercessors because they look very nice.

[@ChrisPrice12]

I'm currently using both. 2 10 man regulars with Assault bolters and a 10 man Heavy with the standards and 2 heavy bolters in my Crimson Fists. Combat squad them depending on mission and opponent.

[@PrimeSniper7]

The rapid fire and executor Heavy Ints seem to synergize very well with Dark Angels, both get +1 to hit and the rapid fire guys get bolter discipline.

[@bringerebrethil6176]

I’m definitely excited to get a bunch of heavy intercessors to add to my Green wing Primaris but if I wanted to field an entire T5 3W list I’d just continue with my Ravenwing, they hit harder in Melee than their shooting and their shooting is already very OP.

[@Mittens_Gaming]

I think that normal intercessors are better for the most part, but heavy intercessors look chunky and awesome so I will buy some and do the 42" range rifle and heavy bolter version.

[@Spiran_SphereHunter]

Honestly I am not really fussed if they are better, I am gonna be slowly replacing my Intercessors for the heavy variety simply based on the chunkier boys look soo much better lol

[@MNMasterProductions]

I think I want the intercessors for my blood angels then need a little shooting and I’m just getting started ty for the vid!

[@chriengo89]

Rules as written an intersessor can fire his Grenade launcher and bolt rifle in the same shooting phase. so for 5pts you get to shoot a Krak grenade each turn in addition to the bolt rifle shots!

[@MagosCavantis]

I hope that we will see a video from you, detailing what you think about the new Monolith.

[@Steve_Keen]

So how would you build a box of intercessors? 99% chance I'll never play with them, just wanted to paint them, but may as well build them right.

[@xxlebox]

How is the Auxiliary Grenade Launcher not well costed at the moment? It's 2 pts for an extra Frag or Krak grenade at 30". Remember it changed to Assault, so you can fire it alongside the Intercessor's bolter. You can also fire two in a squad of 10 Intercessors now. I would say it is basically always worth it.

[@michaelpritchard3743]

It's 5 pts in the new Space Marine codex. You are right you can fire it with the rifle.

[@dArKp4th]

@@michaelpritchard3743 if you still have points sure but idk if it’s auto include

[@xxlebox]

@@michaelpritchard3743 Ahh. Missed that. Right, debatable then.

[@Axquirix]

So Heavy Intercessors as a Troop are more durable and less damaging than regular Intercessors... which is the same thing standard Tacticals are. Could we get a comparison of those two some time? Obviously Tacticals can take special/heavy weapons that aren't heavy bolters, but other details elude me atm...

[@dinosuarman13]

Have you thought about redoing the videos with all of the new changes for space marines

[@Tebo1981]

Definitely think heavy is the way yo go for Dark Angels as you won't want to move anyway

[@zacharykoplin6543]

I can’t wait for the Heavy Intercessors, I’d use them as either a heavy assault unit or a frontline damage soaking unit

[@alistairbolden6340]

I think they work best for holding a back line objective on the flank in 5man squads. The main problem with using them as front line is they kinda suck in melee and are slow. They can soak damage ok but are expensive. I prefer scouts or tact marines as a cheap frontline. 2 5man tactical marine squads barebones sat infront of each other make for a very cheap shield, add a Rhino to the unit and they can absorb at least 3 units worth of firepower. So instead of lose 500-6 points turn one by losing 2 intercessor squads you lose only 200-250 if you want to force fire on that unit just swap the rhino for a razorback with twin lascannon that will make sure it won't get ignored.

[@andrewostman3135]

Im curious about the veteran inter. Because if i read the rules right they get an extra attack and can all take chainswords

[@benfabz]

Yeah I saw that, basically veteran assault intercessors is what I was thinking of running with BA. Since the DC primaries suck as is

[@hyndenburg2619]

So, I have a question. In the video, for 10 pts extra you can take a Heavy Bolter. Does this mean if I spend 50 extra pts I can have Heavy Bolters on every model in the squad? Or is it 10 pts for only the Sergeant to have it? 15 S5 AP-2 D2 shots sounds pretty tasty for potentially wiping out squads without having to spend 2CP on Rapid Fire with regular Intercessors.

[@sparkycalledmarky]

One Heavy Bolter per 5 Heavy Intercessors.

[@mol1866]

only 1 special weapon per 5 dont get too caught in the names its confusing

[@Cha-Khia]

No, only 1 in 5 models can upgrade their gun, it'd be busted to take 10 heavy bolters on a troops choice. 30 S:5 AP: -1 D2 shots at 36" on T:5 3 wounds with scoring all for 380 points would be totally broken. Like Eradicators.

[@Patononfan]

We need more chaos stuff

[@stevenschnepp576]

**cries in Thousand Sons**

[@masoncarter1710]

good video. curious if you think there will be some people taking all (or nearly all) gravis lists since we have gravis in each battlefield role and some chapters have named characters with gravis to make up for only being allowed one captain.

[@SniperKing029]

Wait! Bolter Discipline is still in effect in 9th edition right? Great Video as always!

[@kalebdaark100]

As a statement of where the game is at the moment, 126 lasgun hits to kill 7 Intercessors and 135 lasgun hits to kill 5 Heavy Intercessors kind of says it all really.

[@bryal7811]

Are those not average numbers?

[@Nukem9999]

You don't kill Intercessors with lasguns. You peel off a couple models, then blast the rest with the mountain of Heavy and Special Weapons the Guardsmen squads are carrying. Infantry wave Guard lists can do a lot of damage with their lasguns (I mean, a 50 man platoon is dropping 100 shots base, modified for special weapons) but in the end the lasguns are really ablative wounds for the heavier stuff in the squads when you're facing things like 3+ armor saves.

[@herorights9010]

If you compare points it's not that much points to get 130 shots of lasgun fire

[@Orrissan]

It's really easy actually to get 150 shots of Lasgun fire as guard. Besides, heavy or not is actually a moot point vs guard lists like that. If you are running that list you are not here to *kill* anything, you will hardly do any damage actually. But what you will do is choke the board in Obsec units running as fast as Transports with Move Move Move, and since most lists are tailored to kill marines they simply will not have the volume of fire to actually kill that many guardsmen before they are guaranteed to lose based on points. And so what if they bring a unit of Aggressors that can deal enough damage. You have 150+ lasgun shots + whatever heavy weapons you have brought on the cheap, and all you have to do is kill that one unit and they will never bring enough fire to bear to actually take you off the board. Same with a Repulsor or something. And if they do have enough fire to deal with you... well the Marine List coming next will stomp them right back. Drown them in bodies, tis the guard way.

[@kalebdaark100]

@@bryal7811 Yes, they are indeed average numbers. It may take more it may take less.

[@curtisbrown547]

can't wait for the super duper unga bunga uber goober mega heavy ultra primaris gravis artificer armor ultramarine super space marines, each one has at least 12 wounds and the stat line of guilliman. their special rule will be that when you lose a wound you can pay GW 20 dollars in actual money via the warhammer app to negate that wound, and redirect it at the nearest enemy model. they have a 1 CP strategem that allows each of them to fire 3 times and then fight 8 times in combat.

[@dsandstrom93]

It certainly looks like its going that way. :(

[@marioroman555]

2 5-man of heavies with a chief apothecary behind them healing them holding the middle of the board and there's not much that could pass that.

[@georgestauber2636]

I can have quite a few guardsmen shooting at them with for the same points I'd wager.

[@georgestauber2636]

@ivan ivanovitch ivanovsky I took out a helldrake with lasguns. Oh I also back up the lasguns with command squads with plasma guns.

[@torymiddlebrooks]

Can somebody tell me what a guard player is supposed to do when confronted with these numbers?

[@zacharynewman897]

Full-on Russ and Hellhound formations, probably. That's what our local IG player was doing and no one had worked out an answer to it yet.

[@tanith117]

Cry. Bury them in bodies. Send in 5 more regiments. BANEBLADES. Also as the Imperial guard you should never find yourself fighting the pure and Honorable Primaris marines, and if you do, you should immediately lay down on the ground and accept your heretical fate.

[@HeleentheArcane]

I like the look of the heavies more tbh

[@shaun1293]

How about heavy assault intercessors?

[@theodorsahlsten6139]

Thats just aggressors

[@DesertRatGhost]

Bladeguard

[@shaun1293]

@@theodorsahlsten6139 tbf I want to see Primaris with jump packs, I don’t like the inceptors look

[@martinsvendsen8838]

Gravis armor on troop choice, very logical

[@XHobbiesPrime]

With Str 5 and T5 Orks what do you think of Heavy Intercessors now?

[@CrimsonTemplar2]

The idea of an all T5 army is kind of entertaining

[@Flamethrower1942]

Deathguard...hold my toxic drink.

[@pbutch217]

Do you think the grenade launcher is over costed even though you can now fire it as well as the bolt rifle?

[@pbutch217]

@@secretnewmeta1981 its now an assault weapon, instead of just extending the range of how far you can "throw" a grenade

[@davidb3155]

I look forword to the Ultra Primaris troops choice with 3 wounds, 2 save, -2 ap, assault 4, strength/toughness 5 and only 10 points a model.

[@quanghuynguyenang8455]

Heavy Intercessors CAN USE RAPID FIRE STRATAGEM because they have INTERCESSOR keyword

[@quanghuynguyenang8455]

When you are too pissed of Primaris Centurion - Agressors and want something easier to spam Toughness 5

[@JaxonJaker]

Trying the heavy in a raven guard list would be fun.

[@aldinviray2970]

I'm only buying the Heavy Intercessors box to convert them into Eradicators.

[@Flamethrower1942]

They will be released at the same time I reckon

[@MrRomanticGameGuy]

Do you think the Heavy Intercessors should be the normal Servo Armor Look? The Normal Intercessors look so cheap produced. Also why does a Terminator Armor not increased Toughness by 1 like the Gravis? In the WH40k Roleplay Game the Terminator Armor has 4x more Weight than the Servo Armor.

[@CloudianMH]

They're in Gravis Armour. there is no contest for me. My successor Chapter is pretty much built for these guys to take over. Although I dislike the math you're using here. There is no real game situation where you will be deciding between 5 Heavys or 7 regular.

[@christophersmith8848]

Same

[@draconicxeno4373]

Looking past the unoriginality of the name 'Heavy Intercessor' i think this option adds a lot of flavor and options in lists.

[@slobiden.2593]

Can you review “veteran intercessors” some numbers are different.

[@duerf5826]

They're trash now since they're now their own separate unit in the elite slot and SM has so many good elite options.

[@nicholassmith7984]

So they basically outclass Death Guard at one of the main things that makes them unique to play.

[@Obsidianen]

Can't wait to take them with a 6-man Eradicator squad in my Salamander army.

[@MaggieMop]

Nice Solo Leveling PFP

[@jakes8409]

are blade guard now a troop choice?

[@tadhgmcelligott3693]

No, they're way to good. They'll definitely stay as elites for the foreseeable future.

[@jakes8409]

@@tadhgmcelligott3693 ahh okay thx

[@travisvance7736]

Would having a ton of Assault Intercessors backed up by Heavy Intercessors be viable?

[@travisvance7736]

@Tonya Patrick Perfect

[@Psychosurgeonpls]

i like heavy ints because they look cool

[@braalkmath]

They should be heavy support slot

[@nicholaswalsh4462]

Heavy Intercessors look better and that's all I need.

[@JesusLordOfLords455]

Just give us primaris terminators ffs!

[@AgeofGuns]

Still no flamer weapons for primaris marines.

[@hobbybro3902]

At $52.99 for 5 troops, hurts the wallet, idk probably stick with 10 regular intercessors and adjust the load out.

[@justwannabehappy6735]

Why not both ?

[@jameshallam3221]

The way things are going marines in 2030 will be the size of knights

[@mattnobody_cru1977]

Ok I don't understand why compare 7 to 5 of course the 7 would win most the time I wanna see a 1 to 1 comparison

[@frostedbutts4340]

Because that's the same points value bruh.

[@trembichmovingmoments8778]

I absolutely hate the concept of Heavy Intercessors, so I won't ever buy them. It's good to see that they compare relatively good with standard Intercessors though.

[@costyaalbrecht3082]

Why do you hate the concept? (just curious)

[@trembichmovingmoments8778]

@@costyaalbrecht3082 1. Fluff: Terminator Armour is incredibly rare and hard to produce with most chapters having a lot more Veterans that earned the Crux Terminatus than actual Terminator suits. Yet somehow Gravis armour, which is pretty much the Primaris Equivalent, can be shitted out to even basic troops? 2. Gameplay: To me it feels like these only exist for two reasons: negating all those weapon changes like D2 Heavy Bolters and being perfect for holding objectives. 3. I might also be bitter to see the Marines gain another Troops unit. Just to make something clear: I have a Space Marines army myself and still I hate how much stuff is put out for them.

[@rain6353]

@@trembichmovingmoments8778 I mean I get it, but.. We can't rely on decades old lore for what 40k is now. Cawl is throwing up the middle finger and doing whatever he wants. Space Marines are now floating on grav tanks and are made even more chonky. I agree, Terminators (2+ saves) should remain as special, elite units, but.. It does make sense fluff wise at this point. Doesn't mean anyone has to enjoy it of course. I don't mind them existing, though I'm still on cloud nine that my army finally got plastic sculpts lol. (sisters) It just means I have more excuses to carry more multi-meltas and heavy bolters!

[@keithbaker1116]

C H U N K Y B O I S

[@TheBlackHandOracles]

So im new to the hobby and have no idea where to get heavy intercessors, are they even available?

[@zentonil]

You can technically get them in the new Kill Team Pariah expansion set, but the consensus in the community has been that it’s a bad deal overall and not worth the purchase. Otherwise, Games Workshop announced that they should be sold standalone in May.

[@TheBlackHandOracles]

@@zentonil Thanks, I can wait it out, im in no rush and can definitely start building other parts of that army

[@depholade]

How about point per dollar. Heavy intercessors are wayyy too expensive for 5 guys

[@Novasky2007]

I find 9th confusing.

[@Metalmachine18]

There is just too many options now. The game is way too complicated. Now having firstborn, primaries, Gravis armour, terminator armour and centurion armoured type units the overlap between all of them is so huge and there’s no distinct purpose for any of them

[@oliverp3545]

Some armies it makes sense that theres alot of variation whilst others not so much. Like Chaos Marines it makes sense that their weapons would be more varied than Imperial ones since they'd be used to just using whatever weapons they have available to them. Whereas Xenos armies such as Eldar and Tao would be more specialised in their weapons and as such wont have much variation with their troops (also it'd be a pain in the balls if you have horde untis that have conversions and would make you just stick with the base units more often).

[@leegarner4592]

this is a skill testing factor for the game.

[@perisdim]

Big iz best!

[@zlboyle90]

Why are heavy intercessors not an elite or heavy choice is beyond me since aggressors are elites. There are too many sm troop choices . The only troops they need are tactical, assault marines, intercessors and assault intercessors.

[@leegarner4592]

assault marines should have got obsec, that would make them playable again.

[@giuseppedellavvocato4215]

A primaris "troup" that is most durable and damaging then a firstborn devastator squad...ridiculous. These should have ben Heavy support but after the Eradicatos the whole SM meta became a joke.

[@FrstSpctr88]

I would not allow the use of Heavy Intercessors, to do so is to "Heavy Infantry Deployment", and allow other factions to field their heavy infantry as Troops. Other than that, Heavy Intercessors shouldn't exist as they are. They should have just given Intercessor squads the option to take Heavy Bolters.

[@Gaspingindeath]

I find it hilarious that the heavy intersessor strat is pretty much All is Dust for 2 cp

[@nicholassmith7984]

Heavy Intercessors outclass Rubrics and Plague Marines in just about every aspect.

[@alistairbolden6340]

@@nicholassmith7984 They should they cost more points, also the Imperium should have far more elite troops than chaos, most of the power armor chaos marines are using is scavenged and non of the systems have worked for hundreds of years. Really the traitors should have died out long ago, they should no longer be functional factions.

[@nicholassmith7984]

@@alistairbolden6340 Looking at hoe the rules are, that seems like the angle they're going for. But it makes things completely uncompelling. While most of the original Legionaries would be gone now, those that are left have spent the last ten thousand years experiencing constant warfare while living in literal hell. They should be TERRIFYING. They should easily be able to smack-down an Imperial Astartes or even a Primaris. As for their wargear, Chaos do have access to Forgeworlds, as well as their on industrial facilities, so they can conduct maintenance and even produce what they need in some cases. They also frequently plunder Imperial wargear in their raids. Plus, in many cases they still use Heresy-era equipment, which was often superior to what the Imperium uses now.

[@alistairbolden6340]

@@nicholassmith7984 I'am pretty sure most legionaries that are from the Herasy only still exist because of the warps time skips, they are not meant to have been active the whole time. The Deathguard for example are only back now because they have found their way out of the warp. The heresy era equiptment is not better than current 40k gear at all, there has infact been many improvements over the ages in Imperial tech. Power armor was worse as were weapons and the biggest thing is the ships they have are far worse, Macro cannons were not a thing back then, they pretty much all just use lances. There is a role play system linked to Rogue Trader and Dark Herasy all about playing a chaos space marine. The only thing the chaos have going for them are the various mutations and chaos gifts. In some cases they can be better than having fully functioning implants and gear, deamon weapons, unnatural strengh enhancements ect. The few chaos space marines that managed to become a deamon prince - the goal of any chaos space marine, are extremely scary and strong. But that is not the majority of them most chaos space marines die in combat with each other, so it's a wounder there are any left. The reason I say they should no longer really be factions is that all the lore discribes how much the hate and fight each other for the right to ascend. They would rather kill each other and become a deamon and attempt to find a vessle and fly out into real space to die for the chance of some loot. Their goal is to become a deamon so what's the point of ever going back into real space at all? Also the fact that many of their chapter masters are failed to ascent to deamon while thousands of normal marines have is very inconsistent.

[@nicholassmith7984]

@@alistairbolden6340 Time in the warp skips, crawls, and even runs backwards. Invasion fleets on their way out of the Eye meeting themselves coming back. One Black Library story even had a Sorcerer who was part of the very raiding party that took him prisoner from his own Legion. The Death Guard have not 'just come back' after being stuck in the Warp. They and the other legions have been waging the Long War since the time oh the Heresy. Black Crusades have been setting out from the Eye since the Second Founding. While there have been some technological improvements since the Heresy, the Imperium has been largely technologically stagnant. Construction of Plasma and anti-grav technology is only possible on a handful of Forgeworlds, and the secrets of making Dreadnoughts and Terminator armour practically forgotten. Plus, nothing that the Imperium is capable of constructing today can rival the might of the Gloriana Class Battleships, of which only two are confirmed to still exist (and only one of these still fights for the Imperium.) And saying that Chaos shouldn't be a faction because they fight amongst themselves too much suggests that Orks should be dropped as a faction for the same reason. Come to thick of it, the Imperium is hardly unified either. The best argument against Chaos Marines being a faction is that their dynamic simply has no place in the game anymore.

[@rowanirish]

I'm not a Patreon, nor do I want to be. But I do watch your videos and I want that Primaris Techmarine, so this is my 2nd order through your Element Games link to Ireland. It still works out almost €5 cheaper and I don't have to spend money on fuel to drive 1 hour to Cork, my local Warhammer store for free delivery. I'm totally happy to throw a few coins your way this way.

[@Vaw.]

Heavy intercessors look cooler to me 🤷‍♂️ idgaf i buy what looks cool to me

[@craigmcleod4002]

Mathhammer!!!!!!!!

[@ger5956]

Like and comment to appease the almighty algorithm

[@tigersympathiser2265]

Personally I'd rather stick with Tacticals.

[@icklemoo]

yeah a 5man tac squad in a rhino - 180 points , nice objective camper / movement there /

[@nameisbad]

why not both.png