Hebrews and Limited Atonement

[@monicawright042371]

You’re my anchor, Lord Jesus!

[@daveonezero6258]

I'm a new Christian. One of the first things I read after the Gospels was Hebrews. I think I read Romans around the same time. It was also on the Unashamed podcast which broke things down pretty well. Throught that I learned what I thought was obvious about God's relashionship and new covenant. That Isreal was now the church and God's Chosen were those that accepted his son. Adopted into His family. Graphted onto the tree. Wasn't till the last few months and weeks since I realized this is not a commonview in churches. It is going to take some study to be able to talk to my wife and small group. Prayers Please.

[@thechristianoutpost2769]

I have always wondered why so many Christians can except God choosing an elect people in old testament but not in the new. I don't know maybe tradition

[@thechristianoutpost2769]

@Quigle- Dorf here is a better series of questions that I think will help lead you to the understanding of limited atonement in a biblical context. Did Christ die for every sin for everyone(meaning every single person)?

[@bryantvanfossen8099]

@@billyr9162 "It's not a birthday party." hahaha man that is funny. Thank you for that, brother. I'll have to use that one sometime.

[@Notworthy72]

I have asked myself the same question many times

[@ReformedTradesman]

I hear that! Especially when the OT always talks about God chosing Israel over all nations but when we talk about the adopted/chosen people like you and I, oh then the tables turn. All of a sudden, God is a monster.

[@evanu6579]

God chose an elect people based on what in the OT? Because Abraham was faithful so God would keep His promise. The elect were Abraham’s offspring. That’s a condition. Once the covenant was made, anyone could join in and be part of Israel and anyone who broke the covenant was to be cut off from the people of Israel. So anyone could join and who ever wasn’t faithful was kicked out. So let’s talk about the elect of the old covenant and then we can talk about the new covenant.

[@Yesica1993]

Am I the only person who likes Leviticus? It was actually helpful to me to read it alongside Hebrews. Really makes me appreciate & be thankful for Christ's holiness & atonement even more.

[@kylec8950]

It's one of my favorite books. The symbolism in it is incredible. Its also ashame our english Bible's mistranslate very keywords such as "burnt-offering" for the Hebrew "ascension", it would make more sense to us and connect the ascension of Christ and other things if it were properly translated.

[@slash903]

It's on my top 10 favorite books of the Bible. I love it.

[@somecalvinist6875]

It is kind of dry, but at the same time, it never lost my attention the way that people claim that it does. I’ve always found it interesting, especially when there are so many references to life in the Tabernacle and sacrificial symbolism elsewhere.

[@somecalvinist6875]

Anthony Isreal I’m Dominican bro... 🤯

[@somecalvinist6875]

Deletes his comments 🤣 come on, man.

[@boonesnake]

Bravo, Dr. White. I was impressed watching this. Impressed by Dr. White's sermon structure and delivery, yes. But more impressed--blown away in awe--by the finished, complete, glorious, absolute, particular, definite work of our Lord on the cross. I believe we should call this doctrine not "limited atonement" or even "definite atonement" but "perfect atonement."

[@jhspeer]

Dr. White always bringing the Word accurately.

[@kyleharris9456]

Amen

[@sutdhinanchaowonglert9312]

I came here from Mike Winger's Video. This is interesting and fun. I want to absorb all the arguments biblically.

[@TheDroc1990]

Watch the whole series. Welcome.

[@gabrielkinzel3389]

Well universalism isn’t biblical

[@gabrielkinzel3389]

Unlimited atonement is an inconsistent version limited atonement. Whether you like it or not, the full justification of atonement is only applied to some people. It’s therefore a difference of view of whether man limits it or God does.

[@saintaugustine4104]

@@gabrielkinzel3389 Does the resurrection of the dead reprobate flow from Christ’s work on the cross?

[@gabrielkinzel3389]

@@saintaugustine4104 Romans 6: we've died with Christ, and we have been raised with Him in His resurrection as well.

[@williewiner4161]

Thank you Dr.White and congrats to Jeff!

[@johnbull9195]

@Anthony Isreal Not fact. Don't say such horrible baseless things, especially when he just demonstrated the doctrine in straight from the Book of Hebrews.

[@johnbull9195]

@Anthony Isreal We are British. I grew up the lukewarm Church of Scotland so heard very little of the Gospel never mind Calvinism, before you try to pull the genetic fallacy on me.

[@johnbull9195]

@Anthony Isreal I think your childish attacks are completely unwarranted. Grow up and actaully start reading the Bible.

[@johnbull9195]

@Anthony Isreal The fact you tried to associate me with Esau because I believe in the Doctrines of Grace. You know fine well what you were doing.

[@johnbull9195]

@Anthony Isreal Well, I am sorry if I miss read you but when you sort off saying James White preaching on Limited Atonement is from Satan and then try to link we with Esau that's what it sounds like. In regards to the genetic claims, I think the evidence for that is pretty scant.

[@kyleharris9456]

Very sound doctrine. May God get all the glory.

[@frankiemonato583]

Solid biblical sermon. I have a debate on an arminian about book of hebrews this sermin help me a lot.

[@Yesica1993]

I love, love, love Hebrews!

[@mathewalby]

Having grown up with an Arminian understanding of God, the one thing that held me from fully accepting TULIP was Limited Atonement. After Dr. White's last two sermons, I not only just hold to all of the doctrines of grace, I'd be happy to specifically debate Limited Atonement with an Arminian. Thank you good teacher.

[@johnbull9195]

It was R.C. Sproul that helped me to understand Limited Atonement.

[@johnbull9195]

@Quigle- Dorf Don't be rediculous!

[@johnbull9195]

@Quigle- Dorf Calvin's views on Limited Atonement are not actaully are clear as you make out. That was part of my research for my University dissertation.

[@evanu6579]

Let’s discuss it then. We’re your sins atoned for when you believed or when Jesus died on the cross?

[@Tanjaicholan]

@@evanu6579 consider both logical and temporal precedence.

[@johnbull9195]

I need to listen to that again to take it all in.

[@UnlimitedMercy]

For a long time, as a Calvary chapel member I would say, “you can’t lose your salvation, but you can leave it.” Praise the Lord that by His grace He has opened my eyes to the truth of His perfect work in salvation. Thank you Dr. White and Pastor Jeff for faithfully being used by the Lord to do so. He saves and He does so perfectly. Soli Deo Gloria.

[@UnlimitedMercy]

Anthony Isreal Absolutely, without question. However, no man would ever choose to do so apart from God removing his heart of stone and giving him a heart of flesh. Without being born of the spirit we cannot please God. That work (the work of regeneration) is His alone. My faith in Him is a gracious gift from Him as well.

[@UnlimitedMercy]

Anthony Isreal I’m having trouble understanding the question, would you clarify? What about Christ are you unclear on?

[@UnlimitedMercy]

Anthony Isreal I believe your concern is that Apologia is preaching a false Christ, or that the reformed position does so. I affirm Christ as fully God and fully man, 2 natures in 1 flesh, the 2nd person of the Holy Trinity. That is the Christ Paul preached. Man is in need of a savior. We are saved; by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. That is the gospel Paul preached. What, specifically, has you concerned that this is a false Christ and false gospel? I may be able to use some scriptures that better address your concerns.

[@UnlimitedMercy]

Anthony Isreal Ephesians 1:1-11, 2:1-10 are beautiful pictures of how God works in the salvation of His people. Also, Romans (the whole book really) but specifically chapter 8 and especially 8:28-34. John 6:35-45 Jesus explains the persistent unbelief of some who had been following Him. John 10:11-18 is a picture of Jesus calling His sheep out of the world and of His divine nature, having authority to lay His own life down and take it up again. That’s just a small start, there is so much in Scripture regarding all of these issues. I hope that helps! God bless.

[@UnlimitedMercy]

Anthony Isreal You sir are very deceived. If you can read through Romans and believe that then I’m not sure further conversation is necessary. “I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might” ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:18-19‬ ‭NASB‬‬ Us who believe = the saints.

[@lawrencestanley8989]

Along these lines, I HIGHLY recommend Gary D. Long's book, "Definite Atonement." It is by far the best book that I have ever read on the subject. Get it. Get it now. Yes you . Are you still here? Go to Amazon, NOW!

[@lordbealampontomyfeet9245]

Thank you Dr. White and Apologia Studios for everything you do. I am so grateful for your sermons. They are helping me so much. I do not go to church as I come from a catholic/Charismatic Christian upbringing but I am still looking for one. I pray that I find a reformed church in my area. Canada is slowly turning to a communist country. Please brothers and sisters pray for my country and family.

[@lordbealampontomyfeet9245]

Anthony Isreal I’ve always believed in the God of the bible but I never knew him. I didn’t pray everyday but when I did I always asked God to lead me into the truth. For many years I listened to Charismatic and word of Faith preachers. I thought I was growing spiritually but I felt like something was missing. I wanted to know more. I also had many issues going on with family and I got discouraged for a while. My mother is an evangelical Christian so in my teens attended church and went to bible study. It was some of the toughest years for me but I got married and had kids when I was very young. I’ve struggled with many things and I still do. My point is I’ve always wanted to know the truth and remembered psalm 27. My parents were divorced so that Psalm was very comforting to me. After many prayers and sermons I came across John Mcarthur preachings and my mind was blown away. I started reading and studying scriptures and I couldn’t believe how wrong I was. I started reading strange fire and that just pushed me to seek God even more. So I repented, I cried out to God and ask that I wouldn’t be deceived. I am still learning but I know God has heard my prayers John 16:13. Learning each and everyday and growing in my faith in Christ Jesus.

[@lordbealampontomyfeet9245]

Anthony Isreal He’s a Canadian Citizen but was born in Ecuador. What does his Nationality have to do with Scriptures?

[@lordbealampontomyfeet9245]

Anthony Isreal As awesome as that would sound I believe you are in error. The scriptures say In Galatians 2:6 that God shows no partiality. Also Galatians 4:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek neither slave nor free man, neither male or female for all in one belong to Christ. Also I’m not a brother but a sister 😆

[@lordbealampontomyfeet9245]

Anthony Isreal no I am not. I am saying that your interpretation is wrong. Jesus meant that the gospel was only for those who knew they were spiritually sick and needed a physician(Luke 5:31,32)

[@lordbealampontomyfeet9245]

Anthony Isreal listen all I know is that God doesn’t show any partiality. I don’t consider myself special I’m just like everyone else but redeemed by Christ. I am searching for him everyday. I hate having to bring this up but I am a Targeted Individual. It’s not a conspiracy it’s real, I am of sound mind. I’m being monitored 24/7 and harassed via directed energy weapons. It’s persecution with psychological warfare, it’s terrible but I rejoice knowing that God is sovereign and in control. Anyways the reason I say this is because idk if your trying to mess with me as I have many people leave rude comments to me on social media as I am being stalked online as well. Authorities won’t do anything as they are the ones involved. So I am just being cautious.

[@TheDroc1990]

Who would dislike this?

[@TheDroc1990]

Other than Leighton Flowers and Steven Anderson.

[@thechristianoutpost2769]

@@TheDroc1990 every independent fundamentalist that is envious of apologia's ministry. Lord help em.

[@josiahpulemau6214]

Arminius Jacobus and Joel Osteen.....

[@josiahpulemau6214]

Bill Johnson and Todd Bentley...

[@wishuhadmyname]

As James said, I can't fathom the Christian heart that hears of Christ's supreme power to save perfectly and wants to turn it on its head to talk about man saving himself

[@Shiloh3498]

Excellent message!

[@brianj9246]

Great message ! 🥰

[@joshuahoward7567]

I walked into a conversation the other day with a man who was saying “I tend to lean more toward the NT than the OT.” He was arguing about the missing link and dinosaurs being billions of years old with some poor man

[@ReformedTradesman]

🤦

[@annaruthflagg7437]

Thank GOD for this ministry.

[@sutdhinanchaowonglert9312]

Love the Apologia, They really have a biblical view on soteriology.

[@kyleharris9456]

Anthony Isreal “But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:6-8‬

[@kyleharris9456]

Anthony Isreal if you can’t read in context you shouldn’t be trying to teach anything, much less God’s HOLY word. :::::::“A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.”” ‭‭John‬ ‭10:5‬ ‭

[@kyleharris9456]

Anthony Isreal I cant open your mind to understand scripture. Only by the Spirit can you learn the things of God. I’m not going to try to teach colors to someone born blind. Please take time to read the gospel without distractions. May God’s will be done.

[@kyleharris9456]

Anthony Isreal please read or listen to the gospel without distractions. You need to be born again of the Holy Spirit. Then God will teach you all things. Please turn to Jesus and have life. Your sin isn’t worth it Anthony.

[@Genexus8]

Very well handled👏 👍

[@IAmisMaster]

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. - 1 John 2:2 (ESV)

[@j.d.auwerda4795]

And who was 1 John written to again?? Oh yeah the believers.

[@IAmisMaster]

J.D. Auwerda Which is why John clarifies “not for ours only.”

[@peteryang2067]

@Progger_Frogger Are you a universalist?

[@IAmisMaster]

FEman 1023 Not at all. Hebrews 6:4-8 makes clear there is a distinction between being covered by God’s atonement through faith and it being ineffective due to that person’s lack of repentance/unbelief.

[@IAmisMaster]

Anthony Isreal All that means is that the purpose ofJesus’ 3 year earthly ministry was not to preach to the Gentiles, but it still happened incidentally. That verse has absolutely nothing to do with the extent of the atonement and I challenge you to support your inference with the Bible.

[@juancotton2]

Why aren’t Dr. Whites sermons ever uploaded to the Apologia church podcast?

[@joshuahoward7567]

I love his sermons man.

[@CCShorts]

If one believes Jesus accomplishes the exact same for ALL, and nothing more, this would mean that people, who end up in heaven, are not there because of what Jesus did... because... he accomplished the exact same, and nothing less, for those who end up in hell! This would mean that those who are in heaven are there because of something other than what Jesus accomplished! If this is true then Jesus does not save anyone! This would mean you are saved by “something other than Jesus”... if you end up in heaven!

[@evanu6579]

If Calvinism were true then you were predestined to the resurrection of life before Jesus ever died on the cross. Before the foundation of the world, you were selected for heaven and Jesus’ death and resurrection weren’t necessary.

[@4jchan]

@@evanu6579 What u said isn't entirely accurate. Election just means who gets saved. Christ's atoning work is how the elect are saved. It's not enough for God to choose people for salvation. God ordains the means and the ends.

[@evanu6579]

@@4jchan Any time the bible speaks about being predestined, it’s about something that occurs during the resurrection of life. Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Being conformed to the image of Christ.... Phi 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall 👉🏻change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body👈🏻, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. So that happens at the resurrection. Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, The adoption.... Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. Happens at the resurrection. Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: An inheritance.... 1Pe 1:3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Happens at the resurrection. So when were you predestined to these things? When you believed or before the foundation of the world?

[@4jchan]

@@evanu6579Eph 1:3-4 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him." God chose people before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless. Eph 1:5 "He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, ***according to the kind intention of His will, ***

[@evanu6579]

@@4jchan God chose the church to be blameless or individuals? I agree that it has to be God who intends to adopt us. He’s predestined us to that end according to His will. I would say that it’s because we’re in Christ. Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Before you or I were in Christ, we had no hope. If we were predestined to the resurrection of life before the foundation of the world, then there’s never been a time when we haven’t had hope. We’ve always been guaranteed the resurrection of life. It’s only when we believed that we were in Christ and part of all of these spiritual blessings in heavenly places IN CHRIST JESUS. (Eph 1:3) In Eph 1:11, Paul says that God works all things after the counsel of His will. If He works things after the counsel of His will, wouldn’t that mean that He takes what’s handed to Him and makes it work out for His final plan? Look at the passage before..... Eph 1: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times 👉🏻he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:👈🏻 The plan is to gather together all things in Christ. Not just a few on the narrow path. So how does that work when God is working all things together for His will? Eph 1:10 is His will.

[@billbarrie551]

James made a bo-bo at 23 min in he meant to say Heb chapt 6 & instead said Jn chapt 6 lol I do love this dear brother, goes to show my favorite apologist is still fallible

[@jacobgarcia4826]

I noticed that too lol

[@joshuahoward7567]

Why do y’all leave the mike on the pulpit? Just so Jeff can karate chop it at the beginning of all his sermons?🥋

[@CoreyFPiazza]

John 17:9 “I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast gives me; for they are thine.”

[@CoreyFPiazza]

Anthony Isreal It means Christ does have a special love for His elect and intercedes for them specifically, as James White points out in this sermon. Even while He was with them, He was offering up intercession for His chosen people.

[@CoreyFPiazza]

Anthony Isreal You forgot Romans 11. Spend some time in that chapter.

[@CoreyFPiazza]

@Anthony Isreal Only in the sense that Christ's Church, which is both Jew and Gentile (Ephesians 2:8,9), are the Israel of God (Galatians 6), but not in the sense of national Israel. National Israel was judged in 70 AD and since then, the Kingdom of God is comprised of both Jew and Gentile. I hope this is what you mean. I hope you mean Israelite in the sense of spiritual Israel, those who are Jew and Gentile in Christ, and not the nation of covenant breakers that were judged in 70 AD.

[@CoreyFPiazza]

Anthony Isreal You haven’t answered my question. When you say Israelites, do you mean national Israel or are you talking about both Jew and Gentle in Christ, who is the true Israel of God. There are the covenant breakers who rejected the Messiah, national Israel, and there is the true Israel, Christ Jesus, and those in Him who are both Jew and Gentile, which do you mean?

[@CoreyFPiazza]

Anthony Isreal ok, so what do you do with all the scriptures that talk about the Great Commission, the history going out to the gentiles in Acts 10, Paul being an apostle to the Gentiles in Romans 1? Let’s just start there. You have to be careful with all those verses you’ve cherry picked without any consideration with its context. I don’t think I’ve run into this kind of heresy before, what cult are you from?

[@dws2313]

Commercials are inappropriate for a sermon presentation. I gave up listening because of the interruptions. Too bad.

[@dmythica]

You could use an ad blocker, KZbin premium, or the apologia studios website.

[@jacobgarcia4826]

You realize that Apologia has no control over which ads appear on their videos, right?

[@gutterstoglorybosco3578]

Boom

[@billbarrie551]

Can't believe that Apologia would allow a Buddhist commercial on their channel

[@Yesica1993]

I don't think they have control over what ads play.

[@LiquidTree555]

@@Yesica1993 right. Doesn't YT choose the commercials? Based on which company pays to place them.

[@TheFluteNewb]

KZbin personalizes your ads based on what you watch, so...

[@ApologiaStudios]

We don't have anything to do with the commercials. They are selected by KZbin based upon your interests and history.

[@winburna852]

@@ApologiaStudios Snap

[@fernandogamboa2623]

the Arminian gospel where God asks us (behold I stand at the door and knock) to cooperate with him is the same as the Catholic god ,thus robs Jesus Christ of His love ,His glory His Godhead. Only God has the power to give life to a dead conscience. I experienced this salvation and latter understood this by St. Paul's epistles. By grace thru faith lest we should boast.

[@Lee-xn8by]

I personally believe proper grammar proves any degree of Calvinism false, but I sincerely love my reformed friends...

[@edwinnunez7538]

What about Calvinism? You think every point? That would be a bold statement

[@Lee-xn8by]

@@edwinnunez7538 I believe a gentle Calvinist, all the way to a hyper Calvinist can be proven wrong with proper grammar, Greek or English translation.

[@Lee-xn8by]

@@billyr9162 I understand modern liberals less than I do modern Calvinists

[@edwinnunez7538]

Melissa Eells hyper Calvinists yes, real reformed theology, No

[@edwinnunez7538]

Melissa Eells so why don’t you just start off with the atonement? I assume you think it’s unlimited, show us why it’s unlimited in light of the fact that Jesus is our High Priest and the fulfillment of the Old Testament High Priest. Do you believe in Penal substitution?

[@SpyderInsyder]

I would think if IAO were true then Hebrews would be saturated with the doctrine.

[@TheElismaShow]

YOU DO THE SAME

[@MyRoBeRtBaKeR]

1 Corinthians 1:27 King James Version 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; Let's confound, Mr. White and the Calvinists false doctrine of limited atonement the way they teach. First, it is a limited atonement, but only because not everyone will judge themselves worthy of eternal life. Not because God doesn't want you because He has already chose whom He will before the world began. God did not choose us to both live and die but to live and to live abundantly. Therefore, God would not have judged you guilty before you have done any evil, not even because you haven't done any good, as He teaches us in Romans 9 He has elected all men to live. We don't live, not because God doesn't want us to live but because we would rather be separated from Him, choosing the world over Him. Romans 3:3 King James Version 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? No, not because one man nor 1,000,000 men do not believe, will not make the atonement, which is the promise of God to all men, of no effect. Is it a true atonement? Yes, but here's something that is ignorant to the entire church, not only the Calvinist, the atonement was only for one man, that it might be threw one man that the whole world might be saved. Only one man needed to do all God's will, not all men. That one man, Adam, was a figure of Him that was to come. Adam, who was the father of all the living and living men, both male and female. The second Adam is the Father of all in Him. Isaiah 9:6 King James Version 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Matthew 28:18 King James Version 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

[@mikepruett1745]

so in general the rcc dupilcates the old system and tries to make that sacrifice again and again and again .............and does no good

[@raysonraypay5885]

❤🎉😂😮😊😢

[@JAWesquire373]

It makes absolutely no sense to preach on limited atonement 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@gabrielkinzel3389]

Perhaps, because it’s so obviously true...

[@JAWesquire373]

Nathanael Inman So do you preach this to those you are evangelizing or do you recognize that it would be a little odd to state this in front of a nonbeliever? Surely, you know that predestination and limited atonement weren’t meant to be preached to the laity when the reformers first came up with this, right? Limited atonement is a heresy and should be condemned.

[@JAWesquire373]

Alethia 21 I’m doing both and I would argue one cannot think without reacting...it’s a false dichotomy. But if by your comment you inferring that I’m reacting emotionally instead of logically, I couldn’t disagree more. When you consider all that limited atonement puts forward and carefully examine the scripture it utilizes to support it, you find it is extremely deficient. Reformed theology interprets scripture according to its confessions, so what happens is that it falls into the same trap of proof-texting it regularly accuses others of doing.

[@JAWesquire373]

Alethia 21 lol ok. Thanks for not actually disproving anything I said. I would guarantee that predestination and limited atonement is not something you would explicitly teach someone if you were introducing them to the gospel. Your soteriology doesn’t match your evangelism. A perfect example of this is when James White is evangelizing to Mormons. When the Mormon brings up the fact that according to Calvinistic soteriology God will save him if he chooses to save him and pass over him he chooses not to save him, White tries to guide the conversation away from that topic. It’s because it’s a contradiction and shows itself not to be the God of the Christianity. As yourself this: if man is made in the image of God and some men are made for immortality and some doomed from the womb, then what does the image of God mean. Man was not made equal according to this soteriology. I encourage you to look into the sixth council, which if you are a confessional reformed Christian you should affirm, and take a deep look at the heresies condemned in that council: monothelitism and monoenergism. Then look at Calvinistic soteriology. You will see a contradiction. Christology determines soteriology, not the other way around. That is why the first councils all dealt with the issue of christology because it affects every aspect of Christianity.

[@JAWesquire373]

Alethia 21 starts with calling me “friend” and ends with calling me “a child of the Devil.” The truth is shown: false pietism. ✌🏻Also it’s you’re

[@macbudy3439]

God-Yahweh is off flesh and bone, NOT made of Spirit. to say that he is spirit and not made of flesh and bone would invalidate scripture-prophecy the "body" must be "risen" after 3 days. period. period. Case in point per prophecy {of the forgiveness of Israel}, at the point of last days "Ben David" [genesis 49: 8-13] will appear before Israel and show him his "hands" and the "wounds" that are placed on it [ Nevi’im - Zechariah 13:6] this is ONE of many evidence for how Israel will know it is in fact "Ben David"; prior to this factual scripture prophecy that all the Jewish prophets hold to, they also point to one who will usher in "Ben David" the sounding of the trumpet [rams horn] preparing the progression of the restoration of the state of Israel..... recognition of Israel being a country of its own statehood..... rebuilding of the temple [tabernacle-temple mount]..... vailing of "Ben David" or what christians believe to be the 2nd coming. What ever book you read from to sight for you scripture must [by scripture law] line up with the old testament in a straight line of progression from Gen.-Rev..period. period. I have laid out scripture for you to read for yourself, I don't know what book you are reading from, because it has portion removed from it. Luke @ ... 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; ‘a ghost does not have flesh and bones’, as you see I have.” 40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet; 44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” 45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. {And the seed of the tribe of the children of Israel came out of the vineyard} Ephraim - Nevi’im - Zechariah @ And you shall speak to him, saying, "So said the Lord of Hosts, saying: Behold a man whose name is the shoot, who will spring up out of his place and build the Temple of the Lord. Ben Yosef [genesis @-20; 49: 22-24] one who usher in, gathering of tribes, prior to rebuilding-recognition of Israel for restoration of tabernacle; time of formation Israel’s intra-bank - financial promise. Isaiah 11:1 shoot from jesse; patriarch-blessing [abraham-shem'ham] Nevi’im - Zechariah 13:6 And one will say to him, "What are these wounds between your hands?" And he shall say, "That I was smitten in the house of my friends." Ben David [genesis 49: 8-13] Isaiah 11:1 stem of jesse; patriarch-blessing [Jacob-Jethro-Abraham'shem.] Isaiah prophecies of the 3rd line of lineage in Isaiah 11:1 the twig or branch [the elder brother] better known as - the Gentiles i.e. Japheth

[@koriclaypool9548]

Actually i find Leviticus very interesting. On the other hand 1 and 2 kings is boring. i had to skip.

[@jaxonviverl2312]

Not of god

[@marteld2108]

Calvinism is a heresy. All you need to use is simple Logic to refute the Calvinist system.

[@jwtrain]

Hit me with your logic Sir.

[@marteld2108]

@@jwtrain ...1 Jn. 2:1....Christ is expiation for the sins of the WHOLE world. The "Petal-L" in "TU-L-IP" falls off. That is not a "Gospel of Hope."

[@jwtrain]

MARTEL D You’re a universalist?

[@bryantvanfossen8099]

@@marteld2108 Dear brother, do you lie in the wick one? 1 John 5:19 uses "WHOLE world" as well. I can tell you that I am in Christ, as I presume you are as well, and therefor not in the wicked one. Even "whole world" doesn't everybody without exception. Same two Greek words. Kosmos just means order or group. Let the Bible define its terms. God does a just fine job defining His own terms. 1 John 2:2 is a group that is much larger than just John and the recipients of the letter. 1 John 5:19 is talking about everybody outside of Christ. 2 completely different groups; same 2 Greek and English words.

[@jwtrain]

Quigle- Dorf Unbelief is a sin.

[@tomgomez3909]

The truth is in the Holy Roman Catholic Church!!! What about the early Christians before the available printed Bible, the relationship with Christ is in the Holy Eucharist. The word of God “the Bible” shared at the pulpit. “You must eat of my body and drink of my blood to have life in you” oh that’s right, that’s just symbolic....... good luck!!!!🤭

[@tookie36]

Rubbish. Well articulated tho!