Is Limited Atonement Biblical? w/Dr. James White (Part 4)

[@zoreyaswain1133]

Thank you Dr. White for your many years of defense and study of the word. This preaching is glorious to God! Amen brother

[@nickbenjamin3546]

Amen brother this is true exegesis!

[@travissharon1536]

The holy pursuit of holding a flawed interpretation of Romans 3,8,9 and ephesians 1 above the rest of the Bible. I shouldn't be posting right now because I'm angry, but I watched a young man I love preach the heresy of Limited or definite attonment. It breaks my heart. I don't think it endangers salvation, but I do think it is casting stumble blocks in front of God's children.

[@Brother_Timothy_Harvey]

​@@travissharon1536 brother explain how it's flawed. Refute what Dr White said

[@travissharon1536]

@Timothy Harvey 8 minutes in, and he's still just rambling. He does that. I watched this video quite a while ago, Limited atonement has been refuted by far better men than me. Just keep an open mind and watch some content that questions the TULIP, and see if Dr White or any Calvinist ever responds directly to those questions, or just misdirects, and poisons the well by comparing them to someone that is almost universally seen as false believers. Comparing everyone who disagrees with you a Mormon, doesn't make you right.

[@ChristisLord2023]

​@@travissharon1536it was the inconsistency of those who teach against reformed theology that led us to see the truth in scripture. Thanks for your concern though.

[@tonya1802]

I love this because I can pause and follow in my Bible and make notes and such...thank you Dr White, God bless you and your family. I'm reformed now and it's so much of a blessing to know God is in charge of Salvation and not me. Glory be to God....

[@donhaddix3770]

he also believes God assigns people to will arbitrarily. what if you are?

[@hamtramckchronicles]

This is as good as it gets folks. It doesn't get any more biblical than this. A great word!

[@carmelitovista14]

Next to RC Sproul, I think Dr White is one of the most responsible minister why I've just left my long cherished (25 years actually) Pentecostal denomination as I turn to Reformed Theology. And this doctrine of Limited atonement is the one that I'd struggled the most.

[@AllforOne_OneforAll1689]

Check out Leighton Flowers with Soteriology101.

[@carmelitovista14]

@@AllforOne_OneforAll1689 I've already visited his channel

[@mattverville9227]

@@AllforOne_OneforAll1689 check out Romans 9

[@michaelpoapst9465]

@@AllforOne_OneforAll1689 No Thanks !

[@Brother_Timothy_Harvey]

Amen brother same here

[@michaellloydmerichko9599]

Limited Atonement actually was the first part of the flower I saw in Scripture. Thank God his Son died for me!

[@noneofyourbusiness9635]

Secret: the limited atonement isn’t the flesh and blood. It is the Spirit of life for the sin of unbelief that isn’t of the law of the letter. Jesus, the man, paid the legal sin debt for all men. God is a Spirit named Jesus, the Lamb of God and Father of spirits. The Trinity is a lie along with Calvinism

[@Brother_Timothy_Harvey]

​@@noneofyourbusiness9635 😂😂😂😂 go home with that nonsense. You have to read the Bible with one eye open to believe that oneness heresy

[@FooDude2011]

This is one of the most powerful sermons I’ve ever heard. Praise God!!

[@j.d.auwerda4795]

I like how James gives a exposition into Romans 8, and still the Arminians reject Scripture based on their traditions.

[@firingallcylinders2949]

I literally quote verse after verse about the doctrine of election and my family goes "yea but that's not fair" and just rejects it.

[@j.d.auwerda4795]

@@firingallcylinders2949 Whenever I hear "That's not fair" I respond. You don't want fair. What's fair is if God decided not to have mercy on any and gave all of us justice for our sins against a Holy God. That's fair. The question is not why did God love Jacob and not Esau, the question is why did God love Jacob at all? Very good point my friend, I hope that helps

[@evanu6579]

What passage in Romans 8? I don’t see anything in Romans 8 that supports Calvinism. Thanks.

[@evanu6579]

FiringallCylinders What’s your most compelling verse to prove the doctrine of election?

[@j.d.auwerda4795]

@@evanu6579 The whole chapter. Verse 28 is a good start.

[@thewaldens90]

Thank you Dr. White for this important God centered biblical teaching.

[@vincentsilva2650]

What a glorious message given by Dr. White. He explained it so well. Thank you Father God for giving us Your Son, and sending Your Spirit to redeem me an undeserving sinner for Your glory. Amen!

[@jesusismyreward5033]

Thank You, Father. Thank You Lord Jesus Christ, thank You, Holy Spirit, for saving me. Thank You for starting and completing a wonderful work in me, my Lord God. 🥰✝️👑💌Thank you for Your word.

[@jameshalleluyah8133]

Thank you God for doing it all.

[@kw5021]

I find peace, freedom, and purpose in the doctrines of grace.

[@jeffsinger5182]

While I may wrestle with this doctrine, I find it interesting that those who fight against it in the comments rarely do so with scripture, only with their personal objections or confusions. Thank you for your careful and in in-depth teaching.

[@henryb.7723]

I pray that you'll carefully consider these verses: John 1:7-9 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light. The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 2 Peter 3:9 “The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,[a] not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.” 1 John 2:1-6 “My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.” John 3:16-18 “16 For God so loved the world,[a] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.” Acts 10:34-35 “So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.” 1 Timothy 2:5-6 “5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man[a] Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.” Isaiah 45:22 “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.” John 3:36 “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” Romans 8:31-32 “What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be[a] against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?” Titus 2:11-14 “For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.” 1 John 4:14 “And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.” 1 Timothy 4:10 “For to this end we toil and strive,[a] because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.” 2 Corinthians 5:14-15 “For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.” John 12:32 “And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” John 1:6-13 “There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. 8He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light. 9The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11He came to his own,b and his own peoplec did not receive him. 12But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.” Acts 17: 30-31 “The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.” Isaiah 53:3-6 “He was despised and rejected[b] by men, a man of sorrows[c] and acquainted with[d] grief;[e] and as one from whom men hide their faces[f] he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned-every one-to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.” Matthew 18:14 “So it is not the will of my[a] Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.” Hebrews 2:9 “But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.” Romans 11:32 “For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.” Acts 26:29 “And Paul said, “Whether short or long, I would to God that not only you but also all who hear me this day might become such as I am-except for these chains.” Acts 13:38 “Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, 39 and by him everyone who believes is freed[a] from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.” John 1:29 “The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!” 1 Peter 3:18 “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,” 2 Peter 2:1 “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.” 2 Corinthians 5:19 “That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.” 1 Corinthians 15:22 “For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.” Revelation 5:9 “And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation,” Romans 5:18-19 “Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.” John 4:42 “They said to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this is indeed the Savior of the world.” Mark 16:15 “And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.” Romans 3:21-25 “But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it- 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.”

[@johnmyers3450]

@@henryb.7723 Sigh... Context, context, context. Sir, who is Jesus interceding for?

[@henryb.7723]

@@johnmyers3450 Anyone who would choose to accept God's free gift of grace

[@henryb.7723]

@@billyr9162 Brother you are chastising us for using scripture to refute Calvinism by providing anecdotal, non-scriptural arguments. I would implore you to see the truth in all things by going to God's perfect Word.

[@AK-wc9rl]

Scripture is meant to comply with logic. If it doesn't either our understanding of it is wrong or scripture itself is wrong. I am convinced that scripture is inspired so it can't possibly teach limited attonement as that is an illogical concept.

[@LunchaSitlhouLetslearn]

I dont know what to do than to thank God for allowing me to have listen to faithful preachers like Dr James, Macarthur, Voddie, Steve.. Etc...

[@tedroybal5231]

"He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

[@theghastlygamer5326]

No one seeks for God only those called by the Father seek. There is a general call to all men, but the only ones that can answer the call, are the ones drawn by the Father. Because whoever believes will be saved, but it makes it clear a man on his own will is incapable

[@matthewbroderick8756]

@@theghastlygamer5326 Whoever shows mercy to those in need, mercy shall be shown them ", ( Matthew 5:7, Matthew 25:35-42, Romans 2:6-8), for "to those who have done good, these shall enter into life resurrection of life ", ( John 5:29). You are in my prayers! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink

[@madcow9421]

Ted Roybal praise God

[@j.d.auwerda4795]

2 Pet 3:9 was talking to the elect not every single individual

[@tedroybal5231]

@@j.d.auwerda4795 Please study what repentance means and you will see that it is not possible that Peter was referring to those who believe Jesus is Christ.

[@jesusismyreward5033]

Jesus Christ is my amazing Savior. He's truly awesome.😎

[@michaeljames5881]

“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” ‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

[@greengateacreshomestead4324]

Sure that is what universalism, everyone is saved, at least Christ paid for everyone. But you also may say that all you have to do is to believe, so then is up to man to accept.

[@theocratickingdom30]

Is John's use of world all without exception or without distinction?

[@leviwilliams9601]

Every one can be saved, but God doesn't save everyone.

[@matthewbroderick8756]

@Ronel Delariarte There are other conditions to, as we must repent and obey the commandments and forgive others and love one another and perservere to the end, as Holy Scripture teaches. You are right though, God desires all be saved! You are in my prayers! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink

[@matthewbroderick8756]

@Wayne S Yes, as Jesus Christ teaches we must bear fruit, for even if one has all faith, but does not love, it is useless, ( 1 Corinthians 13:2), as the Son of Man shall give to each according to one's WORKS, or LACK of WORKS, ( Romans 2:6-8, Matthew 25:35-42,, John 5:29). You are in my prayers! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink

[@indielast5273]

Thank you Dr James White, God knew I needed this! Thank you God for sending your Son to died for me!

[@readyourbible4315]

Very beautiful preaching by Dr. James White.

[@prizmlens16]

I completely agree with Dr. White's dissertation. It is very accurate in my opinion and am quite thankful for this Biblical interpretation. It sems the elect can't do nothing but receive this overwhelming grace. However, in human terms, the recipients have something to do if God's plan have to work perfectly. This is 1) It has to be received with joy and thanksgiving and some would consider it a form of good works. Then they have to open the wrapping, peer into say the box container. Remove the gift and make it a part of themselves. However, some of us who are basically passive and lazy will do nothing about it and is tantamount to hiding the gift box and all in a corner or relegate it to a shed and practically never look at it again. For these people hopefully excluding yours truly, how can they conform to Christ's image to the glory of God?! Then Dr. White and most other Calvinists sadly including myself do not touch on "the WISH of God that NO ONE would be lost." Is this wish directed to the elected only? No, because they are empowered to become a new creation whether they like it or not. It is God's powerful gift and cannot be subverted by man's free will. It is irrevocable. There is a shade of meaning when comparing the above example about receiving a gift. I think without becoming a non-Calvinist, the universe may still in one way or another respond positively to the "wish" of the Father. If so, there may still be a chance for some non-elect (or elite) to be saved depending on God's still reforming will. By the way the crux of debates between Calvs and non-Calvs are their desire to be more compassionate than God. Is this a possiblity? Can men love others more than God? which is a shade of one of the greatest questions plaguing religious philosophers since time immemorial: CAN MAN (OR AT LEAST) SOME MAN BE BETTER THAN GOD? I can cite an example where this may be possible. When I was rearing our boys and also grandchildren, I always "wished" that they would be better than me. God on the other hand only wants us to be like Christ. Does t his mean I am better than God?? Please answer anyone who reads this. Many Thanks.

[@wojak91]

Wonderful. Praise God for His Word.

[@jamessheffield4173]

Matthew 22:14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

[@DionDell]

I raised my hand brother Dr. White! :D

[@jody2873]

SO SO good to hear!

[@1988TheHitman]

It was nice to hear Leighton Flowers in the background respond to this sermon at 50:22

[@jeromebushnell1219]

😅

[@rmlrobl]

that man is a one trick pony, and cant do that correctly.

[@waynehumber8906]

An excellent message! Thank you for your service. I ordered your book the other day but this is the first time I heard you speak. I'm very impressed with your understanding. The study of Calvinism and Universslism has been my study for the past couple of years or so now. And of course, I've leaned toward the truth of Calvinism. I look forward to hearing more from you and brother Jeff Durbin. God bless y'all.

[@BigLivingNow]

The elect under Gods love through the Son. Amen

[@liveforjesus1206]

Yes. Lol But we are the elect because our free will has allowed us to love the Lord our God. Our Creator. Amen. 😁

[@amazingjables]

@@liveforjesus1206 elect literally means chosen. We chose ourselves using our “free will”?

[@adrianaramos8018]

Thank the Lord for this. I needed this today. Thank you. ❤❤❤

[@liveforjesus1206]

Dr. James White is a smart man, but I definitely did see in the Bible, that the Lord Jesus Christ, died for the sins of ALL who believe on Him. Amen.

[@m.d.d4250]

Yes, and the believing ones are the elect.

[@mb8219]

Yes and yet not all believe in Him or will be saved. Judas? Betrayed the Lord..The rich young ruler...did not want to give up his riches to follow Christ. And Matthew 7 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

[@CCShorts]

If one believes Jesus accomplishes the exact same for ALL, and nothing more, this would mean that people, who end up in heaven, are not there because of what Jesus did... because... he accomplished the exact same, and nothing less, for those who end up in hell! This would mean that those who are in heaven are there because of something other than what Jesus accomplished! If this is true then Jesus does not save anyone! This would mean you are saved by “something other than Jesus”... if you end up in heaven!

[@John-hw5zp]

Amen! Great sermon, very uplifting.

[@christianuniversalist]

Romiyim 10:13 For “EVERYONE who calls on the Name of יהוה SHALL be saved.”

[@theghastlygamer5326]

Who is everyone in that? If you go by the audience and context everyone is every believer aka the elect

[@arabniga]

@Ronel Delariarte So you believe Jesus is the saviour of those who will never believe and those in hell?

[@evanu6579]

Cool Guy It says He is. We must receive Him by faith as our Lord and saviour. Trump is the president of all American citizens but that doesn’t mean they all accept him as such.

[@j.d.auwerda4795]

@@evanu6579 Yet, you forget that not everyone receives Christ. Apart from Christ, men are dead in tresspasses and sins, hostile towards God and enemies of God. And until God rescues them from that domain of darkness they have no hope outside of Christ.

[@evanu6579]

J.D. Auwerda Amen. Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few. They must believe to be rescued from it all. Some believe because they are more noble than others. 2Tim 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. Some believe because they have become wise through God’s word. Rom 11:7 ¶ What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded 8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. 11 ¶ I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Some believe because they were jealous. 1Cor 9:19 ¶ For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. Some believe because they were persuaded by love and influenced by good preaching. Some believe because they were taught to fear God. Some believe because of circumstances like having nothing or losing a loved one or some traumatic experience. God bless.

[@exploringtheologychannel1697]

Good to see James White in the pulpit.

[@readyourbible4315]

So true. Yup. Same. He's great.

[@michaelpoapst9465]

After 30 years I have embraced Election Predestination !

[@discjockeydoll9643]

Anyone else hit an advertisement every 5 minutes? Downright annoying. Get a grip youtube!

[@readyourbible4315]

I love my Lord Jesus Christ and thank God the Father for Him. I thank Jesus for Jesus and I thank the Holy Spirit for Him also. I am non-Calvinist but this was a nice thing to see the Lord is representing me. Amen.

[@sha0071972]

John 6:37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. Jesus gave a general call (TO ALL MEN) knowing that all the father would give him would come to him. As Spurgeon said, if the elect had an E on the back of their shirts I would concentrate my efforts on them but because they don't, I preach to everyone.

[@arabniga]

@Ronel Delariarte all peoples, obviously it means not only the Jews in that context but also gentiles

[@paulandaya07]

@Ronel Delariarte if Jesus drew ALL men unto him, then He isn't powerful enough to keep them? The words "All" or "whole world" doesn't mean every human God ever created. It depends on the context given. The only way Arminianism works is if you ignore the rest of scripture. Arminiansim way of thinking doesn't work.

[@madcow9421]

Shaun Vitek I thought he sturgeon said yellow stripe no E. Which would mean those who believe they have en E but no yellow stripe are not the elect though they claim that they are with all their clever exergesis and hermenatics

[@michaelpoapst9465]

Acts 13:48 is Clear !!!

[@markwilliams3085]

Predestination/Elect is not a general call to anyone. But we do tell everyone because we don't know, unless the Holy Ghost shows us, who is the elect of God. Here's some Scripture to read where God plainly emphasizes His Elect. Romans 8:29,29,33,30 Romans 9: 10 -13 & 15,16 Ephesians 2:8-10 Ephesians 1:4-7 John 6:44, 39,40 2 Timothy 2-10 Acts 13:48 John 15:16 Mark 13:20 Matthew 25:34 Matthew 24:22 Romans 11:5,7,28 . Colossians 3-12 2 John 1:1

[@sharonparker7148]

It has taken me years to get here.

[@liveforjesus1206]

I enjoy much the work of Brother White but I'm definitely not a Calvinist. He helped me out of the KJV Only movement. Good book called King James Only Controversy.

[@walkbyfaithinlove]

The sufficient sacrifice of Christ for all is offered but the Father has decreed which ones He will draw to Himself - of giving them the gift of grace through faith so they may believe. So it’s not based on the will of man, as you declare we profess, but rather it’s based on the will of the Father in whom He chooses to give to the Son so that He May lift them up in the last day. And to declare that Jesus’ will is in harmony with the Father’s will is misguided for it assumes that the Son considered doing something on His own. No, instead He willfully humbled Himself and did not do His will but did ONLY the will of the Father. There is never a potential for conflict so it’s mute to declare their wills are harmonized.

[@joshsimpson8143]

God gave the means of the Gospel to draw all men to repentance.

[@ewomer100]

Those that are called.

[@Vetforlife]

Only the all that the Father had told the Son to die for. Chosen before the foundations of the world.

[@henryb.7723]

@@billyr9162 You are referring to John 6:44 which says this: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. " And who is it that the Father draws? Jesus Himself goes on to explain: John 12:32 "And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” In addition, it does not say that the Father draws people unconditionally. Ie, the condition of using one's libertarian free will to respond positively to His free grace is still a precursor to being drawn.

[@kyleharris9456]

Billy R exegesis is crazy right?!!

[@willbrown6298]

If it were literally all men, Isaiah 6 would have no place in scripture. It finds its fulfillment in the New Testament. Matthew 13:10-14 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?” He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand." God is making it plain here that he has given the disciples the ability to understand and to be given understanding, but not those he hasn't chosen.

[@donhaddix3770]

John 3:16 ESV / 17 helpful votes “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. whoever choses is freewiill..

[@andypietrowski6915]

Amen No one disputes that

[@donhaddix3770]

@@andypietrowski6915 Calvinist do

[@andypietrowski6915]

@@donhaddix3770 : no they don’t, Don. You’ve been given bad information, bud. The only thing disputed about that verse is who the people are who will believe and why they believe. Nothing mentioned in the text about everyone having the free will to do it. All due respect but you’re bringing that in . But that’s up to the Holy Spirit to convince you of the truth as to WHY you currently believe and follow. I’m just glad that you do

[@donhaddix3770]

@@andypietrowski6915 whoever believes is a statement of freewill. not whoever God elects.

[@andypietrowski6915]

@@donhaddix3770 : it’s a descriptive statement, Don. In the Greek it says “all the believing ones.” But if you are a believer today, Don it’s because you’ve been called . There are way too many passages to say otherwise. Hearts of stone don’t make themselves into hearts of flesh. If you want to know truly WHY you’re a believer I would suggest you take a look at John 6, John 10, Romans 8 for examples. Jesus CALLED you by name if you’re a believer today. (John 10) It’s the same call in Romans 8 where Paul tells us that everyone who is called is justified and everyone justified will be glorified. How are we justified? By faith. So everyone called in this description is going to believe. And everyone who believes will be glorified. Notice that there are no dropouts. I hope you’ll consider this. It should certainly make you appreciate your salvation infinitely more

[@joshsimpson8143]

It is not the will of God that any perish. Jesus died for the whole world. Anyone that calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

[@vb4935]

Soooo, God is incapable of accomplishing His will? That's a pretty feeble God.

[@Brenda-qo4ko]

When people use that as a proof test to try to make their case for people choosing to be saved instead of God choosing who is saved it means that it has been taken out of context and not exegeted properly.And think about it...unless you believe in universal salvation (all will be saved no matter what), what you're saying is even though it's been God's will all along that every single person be saved, people's wills are stronger than God's will and has thwarted His will.So what does that do with the question of God's sovereignty?It certainly diminishes it.

[@henryb.7723]

@@vb4935 A so-called "feeble God" is one who cannot bestow libertarian free will upon a creation made in His own image while still maintaining His own sovereignty

[@electronicMI]

@@henryb.7723wrote: "A so-called "feeble God" is one who cannot bestow libertarian free will upon a creation made in His own image while still maintaining His own sovereignty" So then, taking your view, the contrary must be true: that a "non feeble God" is one who can bestow libertarian free will upon a creation made in His own image while still maintaining His own sovereignty. Sounds like a God made in your own image. Edit: I forgot to mention that if you do reply, please...please, no wall of scripture verses.

[@henryb.7723]

@@electronicMI Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. To reiterate: a truly all-powerful God would not be afraid to bestow libertarian free will to humans (who are made in His own image) because doing so would not compromise His own sovereignty. It's not a riddle. Think of it simply as a Father and His child. He has the power to control every meticulous aspect of that child's life, but He is loving and allows them to make decisions for themselves. Why? Because ultimately, the child cannot love the Father without a libertarian free will. Otherwise, the child is nothing but an automaton, doing only what the Father programs him to do. If you want biblical proof, look no further than the parable of the Prodigal Son.

[@mouriermarie-helene3510]

Brilliant

[@liveforjesus1206]

No, LOL... Only God is ALMIGHTY, bless His Name. We just mean that some people resist the Lord, is all. Faith is a blessing and I prayed for it.

[@gabrielkinzel3389]

"We just mean that some people resist the Lord" IDK what Bible or world you live in, because the natural man of flesh is naturally an enemy of God. Everyone resists the Lord.(Romans 1)

[@gabrielkinzel3389]

BTW: that's a self-refuting argument. "*Only God is ALMIGHTY*, bless His Name. *We just mean that some people resist the Lord*" How can not-so mighty man resist Almighty God? You gotta be consistent

[@ApollosHagman_17]

I agree that Limited Atonement is my favorite. What kind of God has a mission that accomplishes nothing?

[@mathewalby]

I am continually blessed and I learn so much from y'all. Would it be possible to also add the Bible texts as the preacher is speaking? I know that it's a lot more hard work, but it would really help.

[@noneofyourbusiness9635]

@8:20 TULIP and the Trinity @27:30 foreknows the elect only @29:30 called ones @39:14 all or nothing @45:12 God (righteous, justified) @48:55 Trinitarian harmony

[@thetruthshallsetyoufree2040]

Good morning apologia, I am starting a channel to reach the Arabic world can I translate your videos and put them on my channel? (i'll refer to your site of course) i'll post this comment until you see it, may GOD bless you

[@leviwilliams9601]

Why do people respond without watching the video...? So many strawmen down here... Everybody can be saved, but God doesn't save everyone. Period.

[@jerardosc9534]

Why doesnt He, if he desires all to come to repentance and doesnt take pleasure in the death of the wicked

[@agenttex5748]

@@jerardosc9534 that passage from Ezekiel 18 is speaking specifically to the Israelites. Heres a good exegesis on it: m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5qtZX6Ql9yeps0

[@jerardosc9534]

Agent Tex Ok so he he wants and desires All israelites to be saved yet the mojority did not, n even rejected Jesus there messiah. Calvinist contradiction🤔 God our Savior desires ALL people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. Not just israel, Commanding ALL men everywhere to repent. Showing His love to the whole world by shedding his blood dying on the cross for us and ressurecting on the 3rd day defeating death. In response we must repent and put our faith in Jesus for salvation.

[@j.d.auwerda4795]

@@jerardosc9534 No contradiction. But I do see you reading into that text. If you read the context it's not talking to All Men individually. But all kinds of men. If God desires all men to be saved, and Jesus will is to do the will of the Father, and he says in John 6, "He will lose nothing of all the Father has given him". And the Spirit applies the work of the Son to the elect. Yet, it all depends on the All mighty will of man and you make God who is Sovereign dependent on mans finite will rather then God's will to save. So who's the Sovereign, you or God? Secondly if the will of man can somehow thwart God's Saving hand, then you make God a failure and the Son failing in keeping all that the Father has given him... make Jesus a "potential savior" but saves no man at all because of the mighty Free Will of Man.

[@jerardosc9534]

J.D. Auwerda Your the one adding words to the text “All kinds of men” thats laughable.

[@matthewbroderick8756]

The Son of Man shall give to each according to one's WORKS, or LACK of WORKS, ( Romans 2:6-8, Matthew 25:35-42, John 5:29, Matthew 16:27). Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink

[@roguecalvinist]

Amen 22:16

[@anthonya8478]

Amen!

[@SB-zl7mm]

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

[@doulos9828]

Yes, and all those who are given grace to heed the call are the elect of God.

[@alexanderderus2087]

I’d love to meet someone who believes this doctrine who doesn’t automatically assume they ARE one of the few God loves and died for. Such a classic example of what Paul and Christ were condemning in the Jews (specifically in Romans 8-11). This idea that God has a select “chosen people” or “nation” or “group”, and that WE are that group. This is the great self-righteousness of the ancient Jews rehashed with Christian terminology. God chose the Jewish nation SO THAT through them he might reach the whole world, not so that they could horde the love of God for themselves and act as though they have a monopoly on His infinite love!

[@henryb.7723]

How could the authors of the Bible have made it any more clear? To say Jesus died only for an arbitrarily chosen few is to blatantly twist scripture in order to fit Calvinistic doctrine: John 1:7-9 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light. The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 2 Peter 3:9 “The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,[a] not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.” 1 John 2:1-6 “My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.” John 3:16-18 “16 For God so loved the world,[a] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.” Acts 10:34-35 “So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.” 1 Timothy 2:5-6 “5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man[a] Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.” Isaiah 45:22 “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.” John 3:36 “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” Romans 8:31-32 “What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be[a] against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?” Titus 2:11-14 “For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.” 1 John 4:14 “And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.” 1 Timothy 4:10 “For to this end we toil and strive,[a] because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.” 2 Corinthians 5:14-15 “For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.” John 12:32 “And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” John 1:6-13 “There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. 8He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light. 9The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11He came to his own,b and his own peoplec did not receive him. 12But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.” Acts 17: 30-31 “The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.” Isaiah 53:3-6 “He was despised and rejected[b] by men, a man of sorrows[c] and acquainted with[d] grief;[e] and as one from whom men hide their faces[f] he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned-every one-to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.” Matthew 18:14 “So it is not the will of my[a] Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.” Hebrews 2:9 “But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.” Romans 11:32 “For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.” Acts 26:29 “And Paul said, “Whether short or long, I would to God that not only you but also all who hear me this day might become such as I am-except for these chains.” Acts 13:38 “Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, 39 and by him everyone who believes is freed[a] from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.” John 1:29 “The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!” 1 Peter 3:18 “For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,” 2 Peter 2:1 “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.” 2 Corinthians 5:19 “That is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.” 1 Corinthians 15:22 “For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.” Revelation 5:9 “And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation,” Romans 5:18-19 “Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.” John 4:42 “They said to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this is indeed the Savior of the world.” Mark 16:15 “And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.” Romans 3:21-25 “But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it- 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.”

[@ericpantalone5229]

It's clear in your commentary because you conspicuously left out all of the scripture that indicates otherwise. If it was that clear, there wouldn't be a debate and some very smart men wouldn't be in disagreement

[@henryb.7723]

@@ericpantalone5229 At the end of the day it boils down to what scripture says. I've demonstrated numerous occasions where scripture says that Jesus atoned for the sins of the world (effectively verbatim). Where does scripture explicitly say that Jesus only died for an arbitrarily chosen few, and how do you square that with the verses I have provided?

[@ericpantalone5229]

@@henryb.7723 " For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified" Romans 8:29-30 As Paul later points out in Romans 9, God makes sovereign choices. He elected Abraham. He elected Jacob. This continues through to Jesus and his heirs. Elected. God chose those men. Why do you think that changed after Christ?

[@ericpantalone5229]

@@henryb.7723 "even as he CHOSE us in him befofe the the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him",in love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ according to the purpose of his will. Ephesians 1:4,5

[@henryb.7723]

@@ericpantalone5229 So the question becomes, who is the elect? The Church aka Christ's bridegroom. Who makes up the Church? All those who choose to put their faith in Jesus Christ. They are predestined to be with Him in heaven. Of course God foreknows who the elect are because He is wholly outside of time. Knowledge of a fact does not equate to the causation of a fact. 1 Peter 2:9-10 9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

[@crisscaseflows]

Lol, I always wondered about the Ellen G White & James White 🤣🤣🤣, enjoyed the sermon though

[@jeremycooper872]

Hear the voice Isaiah 53:6 Matthew 15:21-28 John 10 in his hand

[@pasantosjacinto8176]

Muito obrigado.

[@kyleharris9456]

God’s sovereignty ends where mans free will begins. -man

[@TheDroc1990]

Lol funny

[@chrismatthews1762]

I'm going to have to remember that one

[@donhaddix3770]

love cannot decreed, it must be freely given, Romans 8 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[i] have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

[@rmlrobl]

25 people believe they saved themselves...both sides believe in Limited atonement, either by effectual or sovereign choice. Only the latter is Biblical.

[@christianpetrov5415]

I can"'t believe every 5 minutes I have adds. It got me pissed so much when i just want to hear the teaching.

[@b08no]

End the video first then click on the replay button, the ads will be gone!

[@Valkaneer]

For years I wondered why Christian-based KZbin channels have the comment section turned off. It must be so hard for Dr. White to deal with all of the praise he gets from people who praise him instead of Christ. Pride is one of the most difficult issues to deal with. People watch this and then go on rants of praise of Dr. White instead of rants of praise for Christ's loving atonement. So now I can see why so many Christian KZbin channels have the comments turned off.

[@Alexander-iy1rt]

In all of these comments no one actually dealt with the latter half of Romans 8, instead its a call to go run off to Leighton Flowers. I understand its a comment section but if going to write an essay (look below) make it on the latter half of Romans 8.

[@matthewbroderick8756]

The Son of Man shall give to each according to one's WORKS, or LACK of WORKS, ( Matthew 25:35-42, Romans 2:6-8, John 5:29). You are in my prayers! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink

[@michaelburdge6748]

Wonderful sermon! What catechism do you use?

[@aleczamora6993]

I thinks it’s a Baptist catechism.

[@aleczamora6993]

There is a free copy in the desiring God website.

[@jacobgarcia4826]

London Baptist, I believe

[@xlombardo82]

Dig the count down graphic and muzic

[@matthewbroderick8756]

Limited atonement is a man made tradition! Jesus Christ, God the Eternal Son and Divine Bridegroom, died for ALL HUMANITY, every single human life! Those who do not invoke the most Precious Blood of Jesus Christ, and those who do not love one another and obey the Son of Man, do not partake of the Universal Atonement of Jesus Christ for all humanity!

[@jonathanward4318]

Read your bible mate.

[@matthewbroderick8756]

@@jonathanward4318 indeed, and the Bible refutes the man made tradition of limited atonement, for God died for all humanity! Only those who dont't repent and don't love one another and who don't hope in God's kindness, shall not take advantage of His Death for all people! You are in my prayers! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink

[@jonathanward4318]

@@matthewbroderick8756 All systematic theology is in some sense "man Made". Through study of the word, we can break things down into systems and methods to help us better understand scripture. The man made argument accomplishes nothing. Definite atonement is drawn from scripture through passages like John 10:11, Jesus directly states whom the atonement extends to - his sheep. That was its design. “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.” He repeats this again in verse 15, “I lay down my life for the sheep.” The design of the cross was not to simply make salvation possible, no it actually in full accomplished its purpose. I recommend you listen to Dr James White properly, and read the book "The death of death in the Death of Christ" by John Owen - if you're actually willing to have your mind changed that is... God Bless

[@matthewbroderick8756]

@@jonathanward4318 Limited atonement is not at all Biblical, for Jesus Christ died for the whole world, ( 1 John 4:14), and God desires all men be saved ( 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2-4). Those who don't get saved, are those who don't repent and love one another and hope in the Once and perfect Sacrifice of Jesus Christ for all humanity! You are in my prayers! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink

[@matthewbroderick8756]

@@jonathanward4318 I have listened to James White, and not only does Holy Scripture refute him, so does the Church authority that existed way before the new testament was even written or that later determined its canon. Plus, no Church Father agrees with James White on his erroneous limited atonement theory. You are in my prayers as you journey toward Truth! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink

[@jreberanlc]

The atonement is sufficient for all but efficient only for the elect.

[@mrgrossism]

If your salvation is that secure, why is there a need for Jesus to intercede?

[@andypietrowski6915]

That’s what MAKES it secure. If it were up to us we would fall away and Satan is constantly accusing us to God

[@paulkeniston5699]

Would you agree...based upon Ephesians 1:13,14 that those who have received the gift of Holy Spirit are redeemed forever and have been counted wothy of this limited atonement in Christ

[@madcow9421]

Paul Keniston yes and as this was addressed to Ephesians that is not you. So not one of the chosen. Too bad so sad,

[@willbrown6298]

Limited Atonement only makes biblical sense. If Christ paid the everyone's sins, then he paid for the sin of eternal unbelief (or if you prefer the sin of eternal rejection), but no one on the other side of the camp actually believes he did, unless they are a Universalist. If you're not and still believe he died for the sins of all, then you have people being sent to Hell with no sin debt. That's even worse than Universalism.

[@henryb.7723]

Hey brother. I think the presupposition that "if Limited Atonement is not true, then Jesus' death must have been effectual for all people" is erroneous. One must consider the biblical texts which instead indicate that Jesus died for all people that they *might* be saved (signaling a condition, that condition being the free-will acceptance of God's free gift of grace). John 1:7-9 He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all *might* believe through him. He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light. The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. John 3:16-18 16 For God so loved the world,[a] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world *might* be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

[@willbrown6298]

@@henryb.7723 We can't assume because we see "might" in the text, that it simply means merely possibility because we see the same word used in other places in scripture (even in some of those you gave) in which we know is a definite, not a possibility. For example, the first text you gave in John 3. Might appears to be supplemental to convey a definitive, not a possibility. The Berean Literal Bible translates the text as,"For God did not send His Son into the world that He might judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him." The Berean Literal Bible tries to make a literal word for word understanding of how it is in the Greek and Hebrew (as in it looks alot like how Interlinears do, but in a more coherent English language based structure) Other translations don't use the word "might" at all. Let's look at a very easy one so hopefully I can convey this point well enough. Mark 3:14 says,"He appointed twelve that they might be with him and that he might send them out to preach" Are we to take these "mights" to be literally in the hands of chance? That Jesus could have failed doing the Father's will by keeping them (save for Judas so that the scripture may be fulfilled)? That is impossible. The Apostles couldn't have thwarted God's plan and suddenly left Jesus.

[@madcow9421]

Will Brown wow if a bought everyone drinks at the pub the implication is everyone will SURELY drink? Not everyone will. But I bought drinks for everyone

[@willbrown6298]

@@madcow9421 Its more like everyone in the bar has a tab and you pay for it. The bartender can't say they owe him anything even if someone says they don't accept your payment. The transaction was between you and the bartender, not them.

[@evanu6579]

Will Brown When were your sins atoned for? Was it when you first believed or was it 2000 years ago when Jesus died on the cross?

[@matthewbroderick8756]

Mother Teresa is saved, even though James White doesn't think so! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink

[@paulandaya07]

Mother Teresa is saved if she trusted in Jesus Christ alone as Lord and Saviour. She is saved if she was born again.

[@matthewbroderick8756]

@@paulandaya07 Mother Teresa was saved because she cooperated with God's saving grace and bore fruit and showed mercy to those in need. ( John 15:2, Matthew 5:7, John 5:29, Luke 10:31, Matthew 25:35-42). You are in my prayers! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink

[@paulandaya07]

@@matthewbroderick8756 Ah I see, so she worked and earned her salvation. Looks like it's me who needs to be praying for you my friend.

[@matthewbroderick8756]

@@paulandaya07 yes, Mother Teresa bore fruit, for faith alone is a man made tradition! You are in my prayers as you journey toward Truth! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink

[@paulandaya07]

@@matthewbroderick8756 would you like me to explain how "works" and bearing fruit fits into this? I think you're confused. Bearing fruits is good and is a MUST but that is a mark of a true Christian. We do good works and bear all sorts of good fruit as a RESULT of our salvation, but we are not saved because of it. In James 2 it talks about dead faith not bearing any fruit but it doesn't contradict what Paul was saying in Ephesians 2 about being saved by grace through faith in Christ.

[@michaal105]

Short answer: No Long answer: Noooooooooooo

[@Serpents_and_Doves]

How does limited atonement make sense? Wouldn't the scripture make this point plain and clear? These calvinist pillars of doctrine just reveal what I think and perceive as appealing to very insecure people who lust for control. I would love some calvinist brethren to really explain the idea that God picks and chooses ahead of time who goes to heaven and hell. Choice and free will don't challenge God's sovereignty. I want to hear real explanations and defense of TULIP that don't rely on cherry picking single verses taken out of context. Please feel free to change my mind and help me understand the "limitations" that 1689 baptist confession and general calvinist/reformed doctrine and theology force on God and the faith.

[@signposts6189]

First, what do you mean by free will and where does Scripture teach what you mean by it?

[@Serpents_and_Doves]

@@signposts6189 Matthew 22:37 Revelation 22:17 as a couple examples and then there's this: See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in his ways…then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess. But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed…I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live…(Duet 30:15-19).

[@signposts6189]

@@Serpents_and_Doves Matthew 22 37 is talking about our DUTY to obey the great commandment and Revelation 22:17 is a SUMMONS to any who DESIRES. Neither is talking about free will and what it is. Deuteronomy 30:15-19 mentions choice but actually says nothing on the nature of that choice. It is part of an over all command that again lays a DUTY to obey God. There's nothing about it that suggests this is an issue of free will. Again, what do you mean by free will and do these passages teach what YOU mean by it?

[@Serpents_and_Doves]

@@signposts6189 I disagree, but we could probably argue all day, to me it's pretty clear that by free will, we have choice to either obey or disobey, we have a choice to seek out and follow God or walk our own path away from him, we can respond or reject, that God is powerful enough to create free will without compromising his sovereignty in any way. If you're supporting the doctrine of election and thereby predestination, and therefore limited atonement meaning the power of Jesus' sacrifice was limited and only for a few that God chose to forgive before creation, then feel free to offer an explanation or answer the questions from my original comment.

[@signposts6189]

@@Serpents_and_Doves Of course you disagree. That's to be expected given your commitment to the non-biblical idea of "freewill." Freewill in your view is having the "choice to either obey or disobey." You explain this idea as involving “a choice to seek out and follow God or walk our own path away from him, we can respond or reject.” Your idea of “freewill” is not in any of the “proof texts” you cited from Deuteronomy 30, Matthew 22 or Revelation 22. These passages highlight duties to obey (Deuteronomy 30:15-19 & Matthew 22:37) and summons to come (Revelation 22:17). None of these passages talk about the nature of choice. They simply lay the burden of obeying God's commands on people. As Ecclesiastes 12:13 says, “Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.” (NKJV). So, the commands themselves are a matter of duty to obey them completely without fail. The ability to either obey or disobey them as a question of your notion of “freewill” is quite simply not in view. The NT explains the purpose of the law as delineated in Deuteronomy 30 and Matthew 22. Paul explained the purpose of the law thus, “Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God. For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.” (Romans 3:19-20 NLT). In other words, no one can obey the law according to Paul. So your notions of “freewill” understood as “choice to either obey or disobey” are rejected by Paul who straight up says the whole point of the law is “to show that the entire world is guilty before God.” The whole world is guilty of being so sinful. Again, the law shows us all how sinful we are. Implication: man's will, as is all our other faculties, are in complete bondage to sin (see John 8:34). Talking of “slaves to sin” having any sort of “freewill” when the Son and only the Son sets people free is an oxymoron plain and simple (see John 8:36). Talk of “freewill” suggests choice as being such by nature and design. You insist that “God is powerful enough to create free will without compromising his sovereignty in any way.” That's a nice thought, except it absolutely makes no sense to say something like that. Such a notion is nowhere taught in the Bible. God is indeed powerful. But creating beings with a will has nothing to do with how powerful He is God made man for His glory according to the counsel of His own will. This suggests man in his heart, mind, soul, strength and whole being serves God's purposes for making Him and is thus subject to, guided by and determined beforehand by God Himself. This includes man's will. Man's will is by design subject to God's will and can never be free of it under any circumstances. It is in principle and in practice impossible for God to create wills that operate outside His own or against the purposes He has in mind for them. For if God is powerful enough to create “freewill,” you might as well say He is powerful enough to create another God just like Himself with a will exactly like His that is not subject to the rule of His will and can thwart His governing prerogatives and priorities over those things these wills have supposed "free" reign beyond God's control. The only thing taught in Scripture is that man has a will i.e. man makes choices. However, man's will or choices only go in one direction, ““No one is righteous-not even one. No one is truly wise; no one is seeking God. All have turned away; all have become useless. No one does good, not a single one.” (Romans 3:10-12 NLT). The question of “freewill” is an important issue. It lay at the very heart of the controversy between Roman Catholics and the Protestant Reformers in the sixteenth century. For instance, the denial of freewill was to Protestant Martin Luther the foundation of the biblical doctrine of grace, and an endorsement of that denial was the first step for anyone who would understand the Gospel and come to faith in God. The man who has not yet practically and experimentally learned the bondage of his will in sin has not yet comprehended any part of the Gospel, Luther taught. Justification by faith alone is in every generation a truth that always needs interpretation as well as reaffirmation. The principle of by "faith alone" is not rightly understood till it is seen as anchored in the broader principle of "by grace alone". . . for to rely on oneself for faith is not different in principle from relying on oneself for works. The Bible teaches that faith itself is and has to be a gift of God, by grace, and not of self (Ephesians 2:8). For Luther, any person who advocated "freewill" did not only “not yet comprehended any part of the Gospel,” but also that he had not yet preached the Gospel at all; his is a counterfeit gospel. You know what? Luther was absolutely right in that assessment.

[@КлюевСергей-э5с]

If vaccines change DNA, you not the same person? Are you remain saved? Can someone answer this question?

[@txbullnettle]

The way the author of Hebrews interprets the spiritual application of the Old Testament doesn't mesh exactly with this teaching to me. Chapters 3 and 4 of Hebrews illustrate Israel's unbelief in their initial failure to enter Canaan (God's rest) Numbers 14 has Israel attempting to repent and enter the land anyways, only to be defeated. If Jesus only died for the elect, then Hebrews 10:26-29 makes absolutely no sense. Keeping with the theme of Hebrews sin = unbelief "For if we deliberately continue to sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth...How much worse will be the punishment deserved by someone who has trampled underfoot the Son of God; who has treated as something common the blood of the covenant which made him holy; and who has insulted the Spirit, giver of God’s grace!" If a person continues in unbelief/faithlessness after learning the truth judgment is more severe for them (a fiery judgment), so how can a person be guilty of rejecting Jesus' sacrifice and the Spirit's call if those things never applied to them? You can't reject something never offered to you. Jesus does talk about those that are His that the Father gives him, but He also says things like Luke 10:34 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!" If the elect cannot reject salvation (I believe this), their willingness doesn't matter. Why is this even a concern that Jesus would express?? Dr. White was instrumental in helping me break out of the KJV-onlyism from my Independent Fundamental Baptist background, but as of right now I can't reconcile the teaching of 'Limited Atonement' with what I'm seeing taught in Scripture.

[@pylgrym]

Someday some god-ordained archaeologist will find an earlier collection than P46. I pray King Jimmywhite will be around when this happens.

[@mossyman789news]

Limited is not limited . It’s for those who choose by the prick of God. He sounds a like a Gnostic sect that Augustine joined for 10 years before his conversion

[@ServusChristiPaulus]

"In Christ name I have wept over you as the Saviour did, and used his words on his behalf," O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how often would I have gathered thy children together as hen gathereth her chickens under her Wings, and ye would not.... "Oh!God does plead with... everyone of you" Repent, and be converted for the remission of your sins... " " No", says one strong-doctrine man"God never invites all men to himself.... "Stop sir....Did you ever read..." My oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready;come unto the marriage.And they that were bidden would not come....."Now if the invitation is...made (only) to the man who will accept it, how can the parable be true? The fact is...the invitation is free...." Whosoever will, let him come..." Now... some of you (may) say that I was.... Arminian at the end. I care not. I beg you to... turn unto the Lord with all your hearts. - C.H.Spurgeon God telleth us as plain as can be spoken that Christ died for and tasted death for every man...other will deny thesd plain truths, becose they think that (God cannot justly punish those for whom Christ had paid the penalty)...But doth the Sripture speak...these opinions of theirs as plainly as it saith that Christ died for all and every man? Doth it say plainly anywhere that He died not for all...?Doth it say anywhere that he died only for is Sheep, or His Elect, and exclude the Non-Elect?There is no such word in the Bible...Richard Baxter

[@readyourbible4315]

It's on KZbin. Lol

[@emilesturt3377]

First 3 - 4 century consensus writings: But the faithful in love the stamp of God the Father through Jesus Christ, through whom unless of our own free choice we accept to die unto His passion, His life is not in us. Ignatius: To the Magnesians (A.D. 35-105) ch.5 I write to all the churches, and I bid all men know, that of my own free will I die for God, unless you should hinder me. Ignatius: to the Romans (A.D. 35-105) ch.4 if it be not so, but all things happen by fate, neither is anything at all in our own power. For if it be fated that this man, e.g., be good, and this other evil, neither is the former meritorious nor the latter to be blamed. And again, unless the human race has the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actions, of whatever kind they be. But that it is by free choice they both walk uprightly and stumble, we thus demonstrate. Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.177 For not like other things, as trees and quadrupeds, which cannot act by choice, did God make man: for neither would he be worthy of reward or praise did he not of himself choose the good, but were created for this end; nor, if he were evil, would he be worthy of punishment, not being evil of himself, but being able to be nothing else than what he was made. Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.177

[@tedroybal5231]

Only man limits atonement

[@electronicMI]

Anthropocentrism: Ask for it by name.

[@michaelstanley4698]

Why do men blur together atonement and redemption, which are not the same in results? The high priest of Israel each year made a general atonement sacrifice in the holy of holies for the entire nation, every one. And yet, 'For they are not all Israel, which were of Israel', as 'They which were the children of the flesh, these were not the children of God' (Rom.9:6,8). These unbelieving Israelites were not saved, and did not enter into His Rest. Likewise, our new High Priest offered Himself, a propitiation 'for the whole world', and is 'not far from every one of us', speaking of 'all nations of men dwelling on all the face of the earth' (Acts 17:26,27,30,31), and so 'now commandeth all men every where to repent', and 'believe the gospel'! Although there may be a general atonement for the whole world, it is obvious that not all are saved, since Christ teaches that only the 'sheep' shall 'inherit the kingdom'. It seems that there is both a general atonement and propitiation for men, and also a particular redemption taught in Scripture (Ps.149:4).

[@mossyman789news]

Sad. I love James White on everything else but Augustinian interpretation

[@tedroybal5231]

There isn't a single verse where "elect" or "election" refers to salvation. Jesus is crystal clear in John 15:16, he elects men to bear fruit, i.e., serve.

[@kildacious9171]

"13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning CHOSE YOU FOR SALVATION through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ." 2 Thess 2:13,14 Elect = Chosen

[@matthewbroderick8756]

@@kildacious9171 Yet, EVERY BRANCH IN JESUS CHRIST THAT DOES NOT BEAR FRUIT, shall be taken away", ( John 15:2), as the Son of Man shall give to each according to one's WORKS, or LACK of WORKS, ( Matthew 25:35-42, Romans 2:6-8). You are in my prayers! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink

[@stuestolen]

Dude, John 15 is a great example for demonstrating that God elected us to salvation. To bear fruit is the sign of our salvation, that we are really saved and part of the elect. Gods elect will bear fruit and they will be saved. It certainly does not teach that He doesn’t chose us for salvation. And then you got verses like 2.Thess that has already been sited..

[@matthewbroderick8756]

@@stuestolen Dude! Listen to all Jesus Christ teaches! "EVERY BRANCH IN ME THAT DOES NOT BEAR FRUIT, SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY ", (John 15:2). Indeed, a perfect example that we must cooperate with God's saving grace! And you also have Matthew 7:21 and John 6:66, that indicates not all those who believe are saved, for they did not cooperate with God's saving grace. You are in my prayers as you journey toward! Peace always in Jesus Christ our Great and Kind God and Savior, He whose Flesh is True food and Blood True drink

[@ryfidelity7854]

​@matthewbroderick8756 Verse 3 He states that "You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you." And verse 4 He says the branch can not bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine. He's saying that only true believers will bear fruit because they are the ones abiding in Him, and if you are not bearing fruit then you are simply not abiding in Him, meaning you are not one of his. The entire passage is illustrating the difference between a true follower of Christ and a false follower of Christ who was never one of His to begin with. There is an enormous amount of people who profess Christ on this earth and truly believe themselves to be saved, but the majority of them will be the ones described in Matthew 7:21-23, they declared Him "Lord, Lord" and did all kinds of works they thought were for Him, but in the end God will say to them "Depart from me I never knew you".

[@mattandkim17]

How do we know God chose the Jews? …because the Jews told us he did.

[@ieatpussy1000]

Dr? Since when is he a doctor?

[@emilesturt3377]

But the wheat and the chaff, being inanimate and irrational, have been made such by nature. But man, being endowed with reason, and in this respect like to God, having been made free in his will, and with power over himself, is himself the cause to himself, that sometimes he becomes wheat, and sometimes chaff. Wherefore also he shall be justly condemned, because, having been created a rational being, he lost the true rationality, and living irrationally, opposed the righteousness of God, giving himself over to every earthly spirit, and serving all lusts; as says the prophet, “Man, being in honor, did not understand: he was assimilated to senseless beasts, and made like to them.” Irenaeus (A.D. 180) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.466 No doubt, if any one is unwilling to follow the Gospel itself, it is in his power [to reject it], but it is not expedient. For it is in man’s power to disobey God, and to forfeit what is good; but [such conduct] brings no small amount of injury and mischief. And on this account Paul says, “All things are lawful to me, but all things are not expedient;” referring both to the liberty of man, in which respect “all things are lawful,” God exercising no compulsion in regard to him; and [by the expression] “not expedient” pointing out that we “should not use our liberty as a cloak of maliciousness, for this is not expedient….If then it were not in our power to do or not to do these things, what reason had the apostle, and much more the Lord Himself, to give us counsel to do some things, and to abstain from others? But because man is possessed of free will from the beginning, and God is possessed of free will, in whose likeness man was created, advice is always given to him to keep fast the good, which thing is done by means of obedience to God.Irenaeus (A.D. 180) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg. 519 And not merely in works, but also in faith, has God preserved the will of man free and under his own control, saying, “According to your faith be it unto you;” thus showing that there is a faith specially belonging to man, since he has an opinion specially his own. And again, “All things are possible to him that believes;” and, “Go your way; and as you has believed, so be it done unto you.” Now all such expressions demonstrate that man is in his own power with respect to faith. And for this reason, “he that believes in Him has eternal life while he who believes not the Son has not eternal life, but the wrath of God shall remain upon him.” In the same manner therefore the Lord, both showing His own goodness, and indicating that man is in his own free will and his own power, said to Jerusalem, “How often have I wished to gather your children together, as a hen [gathers] her chickens under her wings, and you would not! Wherefore your house shall be left unto you desolate.” Irenaeus (A.D. 180) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg. 519 The Logos, too, before the creation of men, was the Framer of angels. And each of these two orders of creatures was made free to act as it pleased, not having the nature of good, which again is with God alone, but is brought to perfection in men through their freedom of choice, in order that the bad man may be justly punished, having become depraved through his own fault, but the just man be deservedly praised for his virtuous deeds, since in the exercise of his free choice he refrained from transgressing the will of God. Tatian (A.D.160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.2 pg.67 Die to the world, repudiating the madness that is in it. Live to God, and by apprehending Him lay aside your old nature. We were not created to die, but we die by our own fault. Our free-will has destroyed us; we who were free have become slaves; we have been sold through sin. Nothing evil has been created by God; we ourselves have manifested wickedness; but we, who have manifested it, are able again to reject it. Tatian (A.D.160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.2 pg.69-70 From us, then, are demanded the things which are in our own power, and of the things which pertain to us, both present and absent, the choice, and desire, and possession, and use, and permanence. Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 195) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.2 pg.536-537 not, because you will not - for that you can if you will He has shown, because He has proposed each to your free-will - you ought to depart from Him whose will you do not.Tertullian (A.D. 198) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.4 pg.71 Let us begin, then, with those words which were spoken to Pharaoh, who is said to have been hardened by God, in order that he might not let the people go; and, along with his case, the language of the apostle also will be considered, where he says, “Therefore He has mercy on whom He will, and whom He will He hardens.” For it is on these passages chiefly that the heretics rely, asserting that salvation is not in our own power, but that souls are of such a nature as must by all means be either lost or saved; and that in no way can a soul which is of an evil nature become good, or one which is of a virtuous nature be made bad… If we can show, e.g., that by one and the same act God has pity upon one individual, but hardens another; not purposing or desiring that he who is hardened should be so, but because, in the manifestation of His goodness and patience, the heart of those who treat His kindness and forbearance with contempt and insolence is hardened by the punishment of their crimes being delayed; while those, on the other hand, who make His goodness and patience the occasion of their repentance and reformation, obtain compassion…Now it is not incorrect to say that the sun, by one and the same power of its heat, melts wax indeed, but dries up and hardens mud: not that its power operates one way upon mud, and in another way upon wax; but that the qualities of mud and wax are different, although according to nature they are one thing, both being from the earth. In this way, then, one and the same working upon the part of God, which was administered by Moses in signs and wonders, made manifest the hardness of Pharaoh, which he had conceived in the intensity of his wickedness but exhibited the obedience of those other Egyptians who were intermingled with the Israelites, and who are recorded to have fled Egypt at the same time with the Hebrews…”Despisest the riches of His goodness, and forbearance, and long-suffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? but, after your hardness and impenitent heart, treasure up unto yourself wrath on the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God.” Such are the words of the apostle to him who is in his sins. Let us apply these very expressions to Pharaoh, and see if they also are not spoken of him with propriety, since, according to his hardness and impenitent heart, he treasured and stored up for himself wrath on the day of wrath, inasmuch as his hardness could never have been declared and manifested, unless signs and wonders of such number and magnificence had been performed. Origen (A.D. 248) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.4 pg.308-312 o show more clearly, however, what we mean, let us take the illustration employed by the Apostle Paul in the Epistle to the Hebrews, where he says, “For the earth, which drinks in the rain that comes oft upon it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, will receive blessing from God; but that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing, whose end is to be burned.” Now from those words of Paul which we have quoted, it is clearly shown that by one and the same act on the part of God - that being by which He sends rain upon the earth - one portion of the ground, when carefully cultivated, brings forth good fruits; while another, neglected and uncared for, produces thorns and thistles…Now, although it is due to the beneficial action of the rain that the earth has produced herbs of both kinds, it is not to the rain that the diversity of the herbs is properly to be ascribed; but on those will justly rest the blame for the bad seed, who, although they might have turned up the ground by frequent ploughing, and have broken the clods by repeated harrowing, and have extirpated all useless and noxious weeds, and have cleared and prepared the fields for the coming showers by all the labor and toil which cultivation demands, have nevertheless neglected to do this, and who will accordingly reap briers and thorns, the most appropriate fruit of their sloth…Let us therefore view those signs and miracles which were done by God, as the showers furnished by Him from above; and the purpose and desires of men, as the cultivated and uncultivated soil, which is of one and the same nature indeed, as is every soil compared with another, but not in one and the same state of cultivation. From which it follows that every one’s will, if untrained, and fierce, and barbarous, is either hardened by the miracles and wonders of God, growing more savage and thorny than ever, or it becomes more pliant, and yields itself up with the whole mind to obedience, if it be cleared from vice and subjected to training. Origen (A.D. 248) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.4 pg.310-311 For this cause, therefore, a mediator came - that is, God in the flesh - that the flesh might be able to follow Him, and that He might rescue man from death, which has dominion over the flesh. Therefore He clothed Himself with flesh, that the desires of the flesh being subdued, He might teach that to sin was not the result of necessity, but of man’s purpose and will. Methodius (A.D. 311) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.6 pg.127

[@Birddraws412]

I don't understand why it is incorrect to say that Jesus died for all men providing every single living human being the opportunity to have eternal life, and at the same time provide human beings with the choice to accept/believe? Both of these concepts are in Scripture. And it has nothing to do with the almighty will of man, but the almighty mercy and grace of God to give everyone the choice. Just as he allowed Adam and Eve the choice to not eat the fruit. I'm not sure I understand why it is necessary to have an hour long sermon insisting on the fact that Jesus died only for the elect. It's semantics.

[@madcow9421]

Tnarg Namtrah limited atonement means that it’s no mercy for the goats. He only died for sheep, you were CHOSEN for destruction. Such is life. Enjoy hell there’s NO way out for you. Hope that makes it clear it’s a bit more than simple semantics. Jesus said “l pray NOT for the world”

[@Birddraws412]

@@madcow9421 Again, I'm not sure it's biblical to say that someone is chosen for destruction who doesn't have a chance to believe. There is Scripture for that as well. It seems more logical to say that a sovereign God ultimately knows who will and who will not be saved. Also I believe you are quoting form John 17 which is a prayer in which Jesus is specifically praying for the disciples, not sure you can use it to say that Jesus is not offering salvation to all the world in light of the rest of the body of Scripture.

[@orangez1986]

@@Birddraws412 Dr. White just showed why it's biblical. Did you skip over Romans 8 etc in your haste to comment?

[@Birddraws412]

@@orangez1986 I believe I said that both concepts are in Scripture and asked why they have to be mutually exclusive. Maybe read the whole comment next time, or provide an answer as opposed to just taking jabs.

[@orangez1986]

@@Birddraws412 Jesus is mankind's only savior, but the Bible doesn't say he died for all men in the sense of propitiation. Otherwise all would be saved. It's Romans 8 as Dr. White mentioned and you seemed to gloss over.

[@rhondahauser1750]

As James White says, compare with the (3) recognized English versions (Wycliffe, Tyndale & Geneva ) before the KJV and then the versions after, with the KJV. This will reveal truth. “Only Begotten Son” is written before the KJV and in the KJV, and removed from most versions (modern day versions published after 1960), ASV, NIV, NASB, RSV, NLT, etc. (This is a title of Jesus Christ, our Lord and God)! There is only one “ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, JESUS! He was begotten of the Father, he was born of a verging both, he was without Sin, he rose from the dead, JESUS, the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. Also look for the word “Lucifer”, it’s written in Isaiah 14:12 in the Wycliffe, Tyndale and Geneva versions, and the KJV, and removed from the NIV, NASB, EVS, NLT, Message, ASV, etc (All published after 1960), with the exception of ASV. This is the name of Satan, which has been removed. The Word “JEHOVAH”, is written in the Wycliffe, Tyndale, Geneva and KJV, and removed from ALL versions written after 1960, including the NKJV. (JEHOVAH is a name prophesied forward to the New Testament, who is Jesus, read Exodus 6:3, Psalms 83:18, Isaiah 12:2 & Isaiah 26:4, this will interpret the word Jesus in the NT, your everlasting strength and your song, God almighty over all the earth (Revelation 1:8, written in ref, Jesus speaking, he is the Almighty) , your salvation -SAVIOUR. JEHOVAH is written in all caps. If you remove all vowels from JEHOVAH (there are no vowels in Hebrew), you will have JHVH, the 4 letter Hebrew word for God! And all modern day versions have removed “JEHOVAH”. Look at Revelation 22:14 the word “commandments” has been removed and replaced with “wash you robes”. The instruction in Revelation 22:18,19 says we are not to add or remove from the prophesy of this book, and that is exactly what has happened in (Modern day versions). WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT? Because in all versions there are instructions and through a process of elimination we can remove false (manmade versions). Selling Bibles makes a fortune. All versions which have removed the Titles of God are counterfeit versions, IF YOU FOLLOW GOD’S INSTRUCTIONS! That eliminated all versions written after 1960 as true translation. BAM! They are paraphrased versions (manmade. Now we have the recognized English ASV, published in 1901. It used the word JEHOVAH beginning at Genesis 2:4 the problem with this is that the B I B L E says, by the name JEHOVAH he (God) was not know unto Abraham, Issac and Jacob by the name JEHOVAH, but by the name Almighty. Therefore, we know that man has removed the title of God, which is LORD and added JEHOVAH in place of. Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them. Instructions: Deuteronomy 4:2 and Revelation 22:18,19, same instruction in the Old and New Testament, nothing has changed in all versions. For I testify unto EVERY MAN that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If ANY MAN shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if ANY MAN shall TAKE AWAY from the words of the book of this PROOHESY, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. We are not to add or remove from God’s word. All versions who have removed “Only Begotten Son, JEHOVAH, Commandments, Lucifer, etc. are counterfeit versions. Now we have (4) recognized versions to put through the Test. (2) follow the Bible translated from Latin into English (Wycliffe (Catholic Bible), and Tyndale), and (2) follow the translation, translated into English directly from Hebrew and Greek (Geneva and KJV). All versions published after 1960 follow the Wycliffe, Catholic version translated from Latin. The Geneva and the KJV are very similar, with one main exception, that the KJV is the ONLY version authorized by a KING (authority). Remember God appoints Kings and yes many were and are evil, but the pattern in the OT reveals God uses holy men under the king for his purpose. 2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

[@emilesturt3377]

That God loves us all equally and died for all equally and calls and invites all equally is implicit in the teachings of all the ancient Church's regarding the nature of God and Christ and the Cosmic scope of the Incarnation and Atonement of the Son and Word. There is nothing like limited atonement or the perseverance of the saints doctrines in the Church of the first three or four hundred years; these are 16th century fabrications that have to exist in order to support the presupposed hermeneutic of Calvin and Co's determinism. Even Augustine's late 4th, early 5th century double predestination and predeterminative thinking was never accepted / dogmatised in the Catholic church (though it heavily influenced it in parts) and his ideas about reprobation were actually condemned at the second council of Orange. I think everyone (Catholic or Protestant) who has been born anew by the Holy Spirit into Christ and has come to know the love of the Father, knows the absolute primacy of Grace in however we got to that point, and from that point on in our walk with Him. In light of certain Roman corruptions the 5 "solas" and the doctrines of grace were sincerely and slowly formulated. Unfortunately, throughout Church History, reactions to heretical ideas often end up being overreactions and fall into equal error in the other direction. "Calvinism" is clearly (of John Calvin's own admission) founded upon Augustinianism. Calvin added the novel "Perseverance of the Saints" / "Once saved always saved" doctrine which deviated massively from Augustine's view of persevearance. Augustine would have held to one, possibly two of the TULIP but he would have rejected Sola Scriptura and the wayward determinism (meticulous) of John Calvin and Co later on it history. The post Apostolic era early Apostolic Church did not suddenly apostasize and then the truth was picked up (somehow) by Augustine and stuck on steroids at the Reformation; no, Augustine is the one who added novelties to the already existing view and consensus of the first three centuries regarding predestination and election. (via the influence of his fatalistic dualistic manichean past). That early consensus has also carried on down to this day in all the Eastern churches and in a majority of the Western ones too! X

[@madmanslegend6418]

Dr White, if you want a run for your money please debate a Polish priest like fr. Augustyn Pelanowski who is known as a modern day prophet and whose knowledge of ancient hebrew and greek is comparable to none. Debate fr. Piotr Glas, or fr. Dr Pawel Murzynski. If you want a real debate with a real Roman Catholic debate one of those above named not these confused american self interpreting "pastors".

[@michaelchambers3662]

Time stamp 21:00. You leave out option C. John 3:16. Whosoever - all, whole. The Blood of Jesus was shed for every person who has ever lived, and is available to those that choose Him. To say that God would allow a baby to be born, a baby that you stand for the right to be born and not aborted, to restrain the Blood of His Son from is unimaginable. Are there some aborted babies that end up in hell? To suggest that is absurd.

[@douglasmcnay644]

No one chooses God unless He regenerates Him. 10 as it is written, “There is none righteous, not even one; 11 There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; 12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one.” 13 “Their throat is an open grave, With their tongues they keep deceiving,” “The poison of asps is under their lips”; 14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”; 15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood, 16 Destruction and misery are in their paths, 17 And the path of peace they have not known.” Romans 3:10-17 Very small children/ babies are a different story. They have no capacity for understanding their rebellion against God, even though they do because it is in their nature to do so.

[@michaelchambers3662]

@@douglasmcnay644 And regeneration is available to ALL of mankind. I would be terrified to believe and teach this doctrine knowing that I will stand before God at the judgment.

[@andypietrowski6915]

@@michaelchambers3662:it’s DEFINITELY not available because first of all no one regenerates themselves. Hearts of stone don’t change themselves into hearts of flesh. John 3:8 and John 1:13 tell you how it happens- and it’s a supernatural work of God

[@Chirhopher]

Big Brother, You said "Your/Our Muslim friends like to say, GOD has Sons by this tons", but isn't that OurvMotmon friends‽ Muslims have told me, and You Know i read their god doesn't have sons, the closest one can get is a slave. right‽)

[@paulkeniston5699]

Hebrews is not Contained ( saying before you may have said otherwise)

[@paulkeniston5699]

and I was wrong. remind me not to answer next time !

[@paulkeniston5699]

but I bet James was nit included!

[@ArtVandelay-ImporterExporter]

Look, both are true. God elects, yet he desires all to be saved and died for all. Its a paradox. Get over trying to make it all make sense. Gods word is authoritative even if it doesnt. See the Bk of Job. Stop taking just the verses that fit into your preferred system. Was Jesus 100% God,?yes. Was he 100% man?yes. Yet one person. Its a paradox. Geesh. Take all of scripture and bow the knee even if it doesnt make sense.

[@chosenskeptic5319]

Special pleading to ignorance fallacy. Christ was not the atonement of appeasement to an angry God. Christ was blemished with the stripes of their inequities. To be an atonement sacrifice, the lamb must be physically unblemished offering to carry away the sins of the people, to blotted out in the wilderness 😮.

[@hipfammedia]

Praying that reformed believers will re-read their bible. We cannot fully comprehend God, and in trying to understand God with our human minds reformed believers have created unnecessary contradictions. It requires you to discredit/change the meanings of all other texts just to conform to your beliefs.

[@doulos9828]

Please provide an example of a unnecessary theological contradiction created by reformed believers.

[@joshsimpson8143]

This is not true, watch Soteriology 101 for the truth

[@annafelis2442]

So true

[@iwcb8413]

You ever notice how you guys don't just study this for yourselves? Instead you just sit here in the comments and fanboy over Leighton? Y'all don't see that as any type of issue? Like "hey maybe I'm blindly following Leighton and could just study and learn about this stuff myself." Is that too much work?

[@iwcb8413]

Speaking in general about most LF followers. Perhaps you all have studied reformed theology in depth, idk. But if not maybe you all could, instead of coming on here and just looking childish. Just a suggestion.

[@MrTnewell]

what i think he is saying is that the atonement of Christ, the Holy sacrifice was for some and not others, Jesus did not die and rise again for all , but just a few, This is false teaching, i can guote many scriptures that says otherwise. Please tell me that this is not what you are saying. If God chose me to be a born again christian and God did not choose my mother, my brother, my son, my daughter then i would be the most miserable human, Why even bother, But i know for a fact that Jesus died for all and whosever will come

[@doulos9828]

Why do people go to Hell?