Hedonites of Slaanesh Battletome Review - Warhammer Weekly 03292023

Join us for another week of news, rumors and all things Warhammering! This week, we are breaking down the new Hedonites of Slaanesh Battletome. Is it beautiful excess or more masochistic torture - tune in and find out!
#warhammer #slaanesh #ageofsigmar
0:00 News
8:00 Pick of the Week
10:35 Hobby Time
12:45 Slaanesh
43:00 Subfactions
1:14:31 Warscrolls
Space Station Zero Game: www.snarlingbadger.com/spaces...
Reign in Hell Game: www.snarlingbadger.com/reigni...
Support us on Patreon: / vincentrventurella
Merch Store: teespring.com/stores/vincent-...
Element Games - (ALL your hobby needs, UK based, ships WORLDWIDE):
elementgames.co.uk/?d=10829
Use Referral Code: VIN0010 for DOUBLE STORE CREDIT CRYSTALS on your first purchase!
Twitter: @warhammerweekly
Instagram: VincentVenturella
Email: [e-mail]
Take a Class with Vince: ckstudios.bigcartel.com/?fbcl...
RPG Podcast: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
AoS Coach: • New Battletome Thought...

[@nicksurename5392]

I reckon this book will be a good choice for a re-review down the line. Seeing what people do with it, and what kind of lists and plays we end up seeing in a few months time.

[@Rosarosa106]

Agreed!

[@jakessofa8187]

Instead of Temptations, an option to match Euphoric Killers could have been say call it "Pleasure from Pain", Pick one fight during the opponents phase - for each wound/mortal wound you taken you receive 1 depravity point Easy

[@Gw3ndar]

Appreciate the shout out Tom, now we just have to keep the momentum going lol I've been considering dabbling a bit with Slaanesh, so this was a good watch

[@takeovermars]

Thank you for having me on! I had a lot of fun. I hope you feel better soon buddy!

[@VinceVenturella]

We'll get there! Great to have you on, welcome back anytime. :)

[@garystephen8718]

Solidarity in sickness! Watching this while also battling Nurgle's embrace. Hope you feel better soon.

[@youtousim]

1:14:32 "It does feel like we've been doing it forever" - "That's the nature of Slaanesh, I guess" ... made my day.

[@hades_deathgod9496]

33:28 I think this is a good AA, it makes the players think and interact, it can lead to fun social interactions and I argue there is many reasons the opponent would take the dice, you’re acting like this is their sole way of getting their depravity, they’ll be getting their bonuses anyway, the math is them possible getting their buff early or 1-3 models in a unit die, or a hero dies, which can really be devastating, especially if you don’t have a ward save, or even then, it’s not the possible 30D3 that the player should be worried about, it’s the D3 that could probably wipe almost half a unit or prevent you from doing the damage you need to do. It’s a good and thematic mechanic that promotes thought and interaction, but sure I can turn down all offers and just loose anyway. My only issue with this mechanic is that I actually think the D3 mortals is too potent.

[@VinceVenturella]

I just firmly disagree this is a good ability. Interrupting hit rolls/wound rolls and such with a math problem, forcing something where lower information players will almost always make worse decisions, forcing both players to know even more about each others armies to make the right decisions, yes, there are sometimes you should take the die (it's rare, but it exists), but the point is, this thing is a nightmare for all of these reasons. THe fact that we have to have this big, ridiculous discussion around choices, decision matrixes, when it could be good and so on. Most allegiance abilities don't require this level of discussion, they are just a fine bonus. :)

[@danieln6721]

Just caught the last few mins of the stream and I was like oh Vince is so sad with the new book... and then I figured out he was sick, hope you feel better man!

[@kyles8707]

Alexandre Dos Santos’s Khan is amazing, but to me the absolute best model from GD this year was Erik Swinson’s Imperial Fist. Maybe it didn’t look as impressive in person but the official picture of it looks almost indistinguishable from a drawn piece of art, it’s insane.

[@Pershoreify]

If you go with Vince's logic that you should always turn the temptation dice down, then the right time for the slaaneshi player to offer is literally all the time.

[@gwell2118]

Yeah what he’s not getting is if you go by that logic than the td simply become a free damage multiplier. Extra mortal wounds you don’t have to roll for. The rest of the book is more than efficient enough to farm dp.

[@VinceVenturella]

Okay, so obviously my brain is not in the best place either last night or right now but let me help you both out here. 1) If your opponent actually thought logically, they should basically deny every dice and just take the D3MW in something like 90-95% of the cases where the benefit to the one hit/wound/save was not MASSIVELY in their favor. That would be the very simple economic response. 2) Humans are in fact, quite bad a thinking rationally, and as such, will frequently take the dice. 3) You can actually impact whether you get the DP or the MW based on the type of offer you're making (i.e. people will be more likely to take it under what they view as certain pain avoidance, offering on saves for example is double pain mitigation and likely to trigger some deep seeded behavioral psychology). This shouldn't happen if people were logical and thought ahead, but see point #2. 4) I do very much get how powerful 30d3 MWs is and how much DP you can still get through other sources. It's very powerful. Crazy strong even. but denying 6d6 DP in round 1 will absolutely slow the Slaanesh army way down with only one potentially weak Euphoric Killers are your main source of DP in that battle round. 5) I don't like an allegiance ability that is just "Cause a bunch of extra MW if people are acting rationally, OR super charge your army if they are not" - that's a bad thing, full stop. 6) Because humans are irrational, yes, you should basically just be offering it all the time, but of course, you can get the same outcome without making it absolutely horrible for yourself. If you offer it on a save, they are still as likely to take it as if you offer it on the Wound roll of 6 that will suddenly cause 6 MW. Like, you as the offerer are still expected to ac rationally and not like a crazy person as well.

[@gwell2118]

@@VinceVenturella I see your points but here's my thought processes: 1) Yes that would be the logical response, and honestly I go into it assuming as much. I see TD as more an additional damage buff more than a DP generator really. Its not reliable either way really. 2) At times yes but I think you underestimate how quickly a lot times the answer will be clear. Early game never do it. Chaff, never do it. The issues will more arise in unique circumstances such as with heroes or interactions with 6's or with things like battle tactics. Which you guys brought up. But more than anything it will amount to the player you are playing. From some base examples some players never take it under any circumstances. While others will take based like mentioned depending on what's being saved and when. Chaf no one takes most of the time. In this regard you can't really bank on behavior patterns all that much and because of this I would not rely on it either way. 3) This I can't really argue for or against. I have not seen enough statistics to argue against or for. Though I have seen a certain pattern emerging. Early game especially with chaf, very few accept the dice. But they become more open to it in later games when causalties start to mount and certain units need to survive (key-stone hero, unit for objective, etc). But again I can't really back that pattern up with much evidence yet. 4) I do understand the danger of this, and do not deny the Euphoric Killers can simply flub. That is entirely true. But the thing is so far from games and other games I've seen online there are ways to mitigate this to an extent. The depravity point system is based mostly around defense (buffing existing units durability or summoning reinforcements). But lists that come stock with some defense (painbringers, magic debuffs) and are good on speed can mitigate it to a degree. Builds that come stock with solid anvil foundations and good hitting power tend to last long enough to eventually squeeze in some depravity. But again that could simply be my sampling bias I admit. So I could be wrong on this. Ultimately the DP generation is not perfect, but in truth non of the god armies methods are. Khorne can fail to lift squads fast enough. Tzeench can completely botch its magic attempts or get unbound into oblivion. And the Nurgle players will probably forget the 100-Million conditions they need to generate contagion points. 5) Ehhhhhhhhhhhhh..................I guess that is true. I guess you could argue its punishing the opponent no matter what. So I guess there is an argument that it puts the opponent in an impossible situation in that regard. But you see there is a way out..............just never roll bad...........ever😀 ..............problem solved 😁 6) Yes every person will ultimately act differently in regards to this. Its actually unique in a way as it will take your specific opponents unconscious biases and thought processes into account. In this regard I say the way it is now best not try to rely on it on either outcome. Essentially its to be spammed in excess as an additional army buff or detriment to the enemy but best to rely on your other army tools for consistent damage output and Depravity Point gereati0on. Now could it have been more streamlined? Absolutely, it could have been a lot more point and click. But they seem to want to go for a more give or take interaction with this. Perhaps in book four they will change it up again if ultimately it results in more negative feedback from player base. Or keep it if people ultimate respond positively.

[@VinceVenturella]

@@gwell2118 all fair, I just would have preferred a mechanic that didn't require all of this discussion and nonsense, just something in flavor that works, we could have chosen 10 perfectly viable mechanics that invoked the flavor, but we got this. :)

[@lustria_lives]

@@VinceVenturella I just wish it was 6 dice total instead of per round, and the effects were stronger. like if it was only 6 dice total, and it was d6 mortals vs d6 depravity, that would often be an actual choice instead of just a math problem, and it wouldnt interrupt play nearly as much. And the book wouldnt have to be balanced around this potential 60 free MW its doing every game, so the units could be more effective on their own

[@MrDraconder]

Thanks for the video, I hope you get well soon Vince, Covid is incredibly rough to say the least.

[@keithrogers6876]

Bit delayed in getting to watch this one, but enjoyable as always. I like that you clarify that it is always personal opinion, not just "I think this, therefor it is fact and the only correct answer!". I always get a chuckle about NPE discussions. They often go "shooting my stuff and giving debuffs is NPE!". Rarely do I see the "getting outdropped, first turn charged & having my stuff pummeled and in combat before I can counter it isn't fun.. I don't get to play my army the way I want.. so I am forced to take certain units and deploy in specific ways that don't suit my/my armies play style.. NPE for me".

[@amoryblaine5099]

Hope you are feeling better soon Vince! As aside I believe you can offer temptation dice in the shooting phase forcing the decision. Against a high skill player it would be slight augmentation to blissbarb shooting. Further Euphoric Killers makes the slaanesh the apex predator of horde armies. Eg Slickblade Seekers charge into a big Gitz or zombie unit and you win the lottery. Will this end up freezing that style of the army out of the meta or is the effect overhyped?

[@VinceVenturella]

You are correct and I really didn't explain that shooting power enough. LIke, I can have let's say 20 blissbarbs, split my shooting between 3 enemy units and as long as I get at least 1 wound through on each, offer each target unit a dice, potentially either ramping me hard if they make the wrong choice or just dealing a d3MW to 3 units in the shooting phase if they make the right choice, it's really a problem. I have to think about your second question, but you've highlighted an excellent point.

[@dimon8760]

Thanks for the show! Speedy recovery Vince!

[@ObsidianCrane]

I'm liking the book and I'm pretty happy that I went Painbringers when building the 20 of them instead of splitting equally now. The fact that Painbringers buff the shooting makes for some particularly interesting play options as well. The sort of combined arms list you can build around the units is the sort of thing I like, the fact you can also make "Wind-up Smash Keeper" also has a lot of appeal. I am concerned about people putting Belakor into lists to make things particularly sad around the place though.

[@cyriltournier5784]

People used Belakor with the old book and he wasn't a problem. Imo the NPE will come from the rest of the book with the debuffs to move, attacks, hit, wound...

[@ObsidianCrane]

@@cyriltournier5784 the old book didn't have an artefact that makes a unit have 1 attack, basically gutting it to which you could add Belakor, like the new book does - letting you inhibit 2 units. Before all the other stuff starts.

[@cyriltournier5784]

@@ObsidianCrane as I said. The NPE comes from this book. And there is a lot of it. I used to take Be'lakor a lot in the old book, because 1) he helped play into the double 2) the rest of the book wasn't great 3) he played into the strength of the book (movement and positioning) Right now I think that the book has shifted into either a debuff build or a shooting build. Neither of these playstyles need Be'lakor imo.

[@yyzhed]

So sorry to hear you're sick, but Sick Vince brings a level of delirium to the show that's really entertaining sometimes. Also, I clocked that allegiance ability as crap when it was previewed. "You want an ability? You have to give your enemy something good. You can't just have a cool thing. No, no, no. You don't get cool things unless you pay for them. Your enemies get free cool stuff, but don't worry about that. Pay up, sucker."

[@LakeyWargames]

Hope you feel better soon Vince! :) Thanks for the show guys. I've never really known too much about Slaanesh from a gaming POV as they're not very common in my local clubs but this good seems like one of those it's going to be a slow burn and then once people get the hang of all the little tricks and combos played out. It'll come into it's own alot more. :)

[@DoomDarkness]

Thanks for the review, I like the sound of the mortal units. They sound like an army I would really want to play especially handing out all those command abilities. I wouldn’t want to play with the allegiance ability though which is a shame.

[@leejesm]

1:03:48 On page 2 of the core rules errata they go through an example of two abilities that change the damage characteristic of an Akhelian King. Flaming weapon says add 1 to the damage characteristic of a weapon. "AK's Wave Rider" ability says to change the damage characteristic of the Polearm to 3 on the charge. if you cast flaming weapon on the polearm, the damage for the weapon will be calculated using 4, not 3, after charging, stating that the Flaming Weapon buff is a modifier. The specific wording is this: "A: Yes. Modifiers apply after effects that change a characteristic to a specific value" any "Add 1 to attacks characteristic" abilities should improve a melee weapon as normal, going from 1 to 2 in the case where they are within 6in of the bearer. Well...that's my guess. it was not the case last errata.

[@keithrogers6876]

I am glad someone already wrote this out. I had to do this deep dive for LRL Alarith units 'enduring as rock'.. and then have the conversation multiple times about how 'improve the rend of weapon x when charging' is a modifier.. I so wish they would just change 'enduring as rock' to "worsen the rend"...

[@Nick_Patrick]

The problem with temptation dice is they are so tempting... In practice just say no to the temptation demon. A lot easier said than done! What a fun video this week. Feel better Vince!

[@panimauser970]

I wish you fast recovery, Vince! Also, I love shooting, so I am very excited to be able to be a shooting army behind lawnmovers😁

[@charlieh606]

I hope you feel better Vince. I feel like the value of mesmerising mirror was only hinted at in regards to DP generation. Especially when you can ally in cheap units like chaos spawn or furies and have a couple of units sit in your back field around the mirror farming DP.

[@davidcampbell621]

Slaangor seem like a nice combo with the lord of hubris. They're pretty cheap and he protects them to strike twice without worrying about the kickback.

[@Flummoxed_Buffoon87]

The Invaders hero hype squad throwing shade to lower saves! SQUAD UP!!!

[@adonisatreus76]

I hope you are feeling better!

[@goatforcemcgoat8233]

Also wanted Twinsouls to be a massive damage dealer, and be around Chosen level in that, maybe 200-220 points, but be more fragile and faster. Maybe 2W, 8" move, 4+ save and a ton of damage output. Love Painbringers though, completely agree that they got that spot on and then dropped the ball on the Twinsouls.

[@erikbrandsnes9569]

Feel better vince! You are a trooper👍

[@RatedCloudReview]

I think Godseekers has some value as a pinning army. Throw a Hunter Supreme Keeper and a Contorted Epitome into round 1 melee and you have enemy units that can't retreat, pile in or send/receive commands. Then add the Mesmerising Mirror and your opponent is suddenly having to make a lot more depvravity vs mortal wounds choices. Spell to slow another unit down. Spell to give you the 3D6 charge. Maybe Glutos for the second spell to slow units down. Maybe a Warshrine for a second 3D6 charge.... Maybe even Dexcessa to retreat and charge to engage units trying to escape pinning...

[@CygnusMaximusXIII]

I hope you feel better, Vince! And I'm sad I missed the show, but parenting doesn't stop for live-streams (at least it doesn't every week).

[@Rosarosa106]

Hope you get better Vince! But I recently started HoS, really love the minis and the book seems pretty solid Too 😊

[@CinderfallGaming]

So we know what the rumour engine here is it’s from the next Warcry Warband for Fec.

[@takeovermars]

So technically I was correct! Which we all know is the best kind of correct!

[@courtneybrightwell9669]

get well soon Vince! Nothing stops you doing a show

[@perkulant4629]

Feel your pain Vince. I am always I’ll these days, pretty sure I’ve had non stop colds since my daughter started school in September last year. I think I may go maggotkin for my next army lol.

[@olafolafsson2755]

Same since I had covid

[@secondbourne182]

I like the Depravity dice - neat mechanic to bring more player interaction throughout the I go - You Go turn structure.

[@VinceVenturella]

So nothing I said of the problems landed there then I guess. ;)

[@perfidy1103]

I hope you get better soon: COVID's not fun. I feel a bit down on Hedonites now. I don't like causing NPE to my opponent (I don't enjoy experiencing it either tbh), and that seems to be a big part of the army. Hopefully we'll get a new battletome in less than 3 years that changes this. I'd be really interested to know what you think Slaanesh should be like.

[@l337haxz0rn00b]

Temptation with archers who have sharp shooter seems good. If you pop a couple wounds on their 5 wound dude, making them choose the mortal wounds could kill the hero.

[@woolf552]

thx @vince I had quite similar take as u actually. I was thinking a way to fix would have been to give more value to opponent, eg they can save and use the offered dice more like a destiny die (but need some restriction ofc), rigth now value for opponent is way too low (ie single 6 on a die roll the slaanesh player choose)

[@goatforcemcgoat8233]

I really hate that they made the twins what they did, they should each be god or demigod tier characters, not 270 point ones.... Dexcessa should be a killing machine and Synessa should be a multi caster with bonus to cast, and maybe a priest on top. They are supposed to be massive chunks of Slaanesh (and ascending Morathi) that thousands or even millions of Hedonites turned up to witness the birth of, they should be Slaanesh's greatest champions, and together at least able to rival a god character.

[@olafolafsson2755]

Thx finally someone brings it up. I just don’t get why their rules are written so badly.

[@goatforcemcgoat8233]

@@olafolafsson2755 Well, hopefully the fact that AoS is an evolving narrative will fix this, and their current weakness will be because they are the age of babies or toddlers, and in future editions they will be as strong as they are meant to be

[@JackCawood]

People have been crapping on the keeper, but I’m just glad the number of sword attacks don’t degrade anymore. Also 9 damage before your claws lose a damage is solid.

[@austinspratt353]

"Slaanesh isn't about shooting" *looks at my emperors children*

[@VinceVenturella]

Ok, hey, I meant in Fantasy, you're totally right in 40k. ;)

[@MKDietz]

The Temptations is something the HoS Coach Discord has talked a lot about and one thing they've mentioned is slow rolling, if you're close to getting to the next level and that can also be a NPE moment. Like Rolling hit dice one at a time to see if it fails to then offer a temptation die. I'm not sure about the specific mechanics though as to when you can force, or even if you can, your opponent to slow roll. But they said it should be possible. Like rolling 10 hit dice, if in the first few they fail and accept the 6 you get enough depravity to hit 12 then the rest should be at -1 to hit.

[@hades_deathgod9496]

I mean, you just roll all the dice and see what fails and if it turns to a 6 or not, why would you roll dice one at a time? It’s a one per phase per unit, I don’t think anyone is going to be slow at rolling it

[@MKDietz]

@@hades_deathgod9496 I did give an example of when it could beneficial

[@daswookie79]

The Temptation mechanic is like casting Fact or Fiction six times during your opponent’s turn every turn of the game.

[@rexkaze774]

Yeah but the option for the enemy is that you draw a card or he lose 1 life

[@arcus9590]

I dig the subfaction format for Slaanesh it fits in with the hosts of Slaanesh becoming separate armies in the absence of their god. Hard agree on the temptation mechanic though feels like a call back to the asinine first Ed rules. I would just preface my games by saying btw I'm just taking the mortals unless I say otherwise XD

[@SymbulYT]

Vince's wizened state does undeniably make him sound more sagely.

[@jamielaing5244]

Thanks for struggling on to bring us this Vince, hope your better soon.

[@LokiJonesIB]

Thanks for the show Vince. Don’t worry about the people saying you are negative, I come to your show for analysis, not just hype. I agree with some stuff, disagree with some but I like the thoughtful analysis vs just ‘it is all great’ 😀

[@Bluecho4]

Not to say Temptations aren't still kind of a bad play experience - no one should have to deal with that, unless your whole point is to mess your opponent up by making them think. But I can think of one more reason why an opponent would take the die: Obsec. If taking d3 mortal wounds will or could potentially swing a contested objective in the Slaanesh player's favor, it might be a good idea to take the die. That doesn't mean it _is_ the right choice. It just makes the player have to think about it. Make the opponent make tough choices. Gives them the opportunity to make the wrong one.

[@hll705]

Rumour engine is obviously a giant bone flail for a new chaos warcry warband.

[@Zaiko000]

The Khan is incredible. No disrespect to the winner but to me that Khan is just on another level. Could say the same with Andy Wardle's pieces as well that got gold.

[@rikowal]

Man, get well. I got covid from Adepticon as well., and it super sucks.

[@mattschaning9697]

+1 for more Warhammer romances

[@fabulousdabe8208]

Regarding escalating havoc (invaders): Do unique heroes benefit from it? (Are they able to get a command trait) Is a general who already has a command trait able to get a second one?

[@VinceVenturella]

No idea, FAQ on both I would say.

[@jakessofa8187]

third and final point, If Vince is able to carry on through the Rona, feeling horrendous, it is only more proof he is the hero we don't deserve

[@OldManRogers]

Yikes, evil 'rona. Hope you're not too bad with it. Both my folks hit with it today.

[@imbacookiemonster]

Think you guys missed the mark on twinsouls vs painbringers. Twinsouls seem so much stronger. on Average they do exactly the same damage. however twinsouls scale better with buffs(extra attack / Lord of pains) if we compare them playing the role of anvil, always having a +5 ward is stronger then the conditional +1 save, and the minus attack passively is immensely strong.

[@piesandhiking4943]

I enjoyed grumpy Vince.

[@BeefyCrunch]

Hey Vince. I dont know if its been clarified. But you can have temptation dice on a roll that has another triggered effect....please look into this more cause im interested on your pro opinion on it....ps needs an faq reguardless.

[@VinceVenturella]

I don't understand what you're asking, are you saying if they have a thing that triggers on a 6? Yes, you can still offer the dice. It's two separate triggers.

[@shadeling6717]

Looks at new HOS book Painbringers and slickblade seekers 2 of my favorite models in the range are good. yeah baby Blissbarb archers and several characters still fine. nice nice fiends another model i like was insta passed. well nobody is perfect looks at Allegiance abilities and a few other NPE rules. gags Thoughts on Psychographic profile for army given. ok i'm out she was never hot anyway being serious while the book does sound like it got a glow up overall i just don't see myself wanting to start the army. While i do like a lot of the model range and the lesser summoning making the army a bit cheaper to start, the playstyle is just too different to what i'm looking for.

[@Isrephael1]

Guys, up until recently, you've been my absolute favorite content creators for Warhammer, and I am deeply appreciative of everything you have done for the hobby. But, the negativity is exceedingly off-putting. From Tom unrelentingly and petulantly complaining about the KO book, to an entire episode devoted to complaining about AOS (a show theme often repeated on this channel), to Vince now crapping all over the Slaanesh book... it sucks the enjoyment out of it for me. It exhausts me. Somewhere along the way, geeks decided it was cooler to complain about their hobby, to be cynical and skeptical grognards instead of expressing all the cool and happy-making aspects of their hobby. It's a hobby, guys. It's supposed to be fun. And when I listen to content like this, I want it to inspire me as I paint, or remind me of my fun hobby while I fight traffic, or otherwise just excite me and evoke my enjoyment. This negativity does the opposite. You might say that it's because you love the hobby so much that you critique, but you do not spend hardly any time at all talking about WHY you love this hobby, or devote shows to COOL rules and GOOD rules. I hope you focus more on that in the future.

[@VinceVenturella]

I apprecaite all of that - I can only deliver my honest opinion. Looking back at our most recent crop of shows, most of them are pretty positive. We did talk about the worst mechanics, but the Adepticon reveal we were excited, the KO book I was pretty positive on, Psychographic profiles was pure fun and positivity, as was Skaven and Meta and Beasts. I appreciate the feedback, but if I think something is bad, (like this mechanic), I am going to share my honest opinion. I also talked about how this book was a clear upgrade from the last and a decently good book overall. Don't worry, this week will be very positive, the Khorne book is great.

[@romanianrambo]

Vince, you sound like you did when we were on meds! Much more slow and mellow.

[@clintmoll6861]

Speedy recovery Vinny V

[@MightyMax2756]

The rumor engine looks like bits of sprue they left on the middle and decided to paint anyway just like everyone else

[@StrengthHammer]

Craig is my hero! ♥️

[@takeovermars]

You're my hero buddy!

[@McWerp]

Man Vince’s shpiel on why the depravity dice is a bad mechanic sure made it seem like the best mechanic ever 🤣

[@VinceVenturella]

Oh no, what have I done!!? ;)

[@NoneOfYourBusiness-uz6jx]

What are those player types, like Jimmy etc.?

[@VinceVenturella]

Johnny, Timmy & Spike - we break it all down here - kzbin.info/www/bejne/naCcmYp8i82trZY&pp=gAQBiAQB

[@assistantref5084]

I feel like they made the temptation mechanic as annoying as they could just to piss Vince off.

[@mrigank3855]

About your comment with daemonettes, they just seem like better Witch Aelves? am i missing something or are witch aelves bad and overcosted too

[@VinceVenturella]

I mean, you don't see people winning a lot with witch elves... ;) - Also, Witch Elves have much higher synnergy potential.

[@jonfisher4106]

I think the true power in this book was missed by the rules designers and this is split fire ranged attacks. It’s just a depravity farm. 5 blissbarb seekers will be in every list

[@VinceVenturella]

I really wish we had gotten into this more. The shooting farm is really highly incentivized and I hate it.

[@danielschreiber4710]

😂😂😂 Grumpy covid Vince makes Rob, the Honest Wargamer look positively Pollyanna!

[@lorgor4eva]

1st of all hope you get better soon Vince. I admit before you put the temptation dice rule more from a in game rule I thought it was cool. However no one is going to take them once they’ve played you once. The depravity point upgrades are though. Not an army for me but my wife loves the aesthetic & colours, so I may paint some for her at some point. I’m a bit of a hobby butterfly but I’m at least going to try out building a new seraphon army when the new stuff drops. Great show as ever guys 😊

[@olafolafsson2755]

Feels like every wife likes slaanesh things haha

[@cmleibenguth]

Was listening during stream and may have missed something Consider a strict reading of the "Temptations of Slaanesh" rule "...can offer them A Temptation Dice..." (Emphasis on "A" mine) Do you think this implies you can only offer a single auto-6 to a unit 1/phase? So if I fail like...3 saves with my 1 unit of Liberators. The Slaanesh player can't offer me 3 auto 6's, can only offer me the single auto 6. If that is the case...then I think that can limit how much damage/depravity gen this does, because I don't know if you will have 6 independent opportunities like that every round (or even most rounds), given only 1 die per 1 unit per 1 phase (given that it is only failed hit, wound, save rolls -- not any failed roll in general) As a fundamental mechanic, I don't think I have as much of a problem with it if my above strict ruling is correct I just think the depravity generation and damage it deals needs to be toned down (D3 generated or 1 MW for instance)

[@MKDietz]

Yes you can only ever offer 1 dice per 1 unit per 1 phase, it's stated explicitly.

[@VinceVenturella]

1 dice, per unit, per phase.

[@RadioFreeHammerhal]

Not 6 hours, immediate didsappointment

[@dannythompson9642]

👍👍

[@KP-ek7qu]

Get better Vince 🙂

[@lordduskblade]

I am honestly shocked by how many people in chat didn't immediately realize that the default on Temptation Dice is that you should turn it down. Vince is absolutely correct in that Depravity is a math problem, and that having it as a base allegiance ability is not great. It makes Slaanesh the seal clubbing army, where it crushes newer players and struggles v. more skilled ones. Totally agree on Painbringers v. Twinsouls - they are too similar in role, and my view of it is that the Painbringers are better at it. I also find myself thinking more and more that the shooting skew lists are the primary way to go, much to my chagrin. However, I do believe there is enough potential in the book's melee units (and you need at least one beater unit for Euphoric Killers) that I may be wrong on that. Cautiously positive on the book overall. P.S.: Feel better Vince!

[@Dino-xz9dd]

I have to 100% agree with Vince on the allegiance ability. It sounds fun but after a few games it will get really annoying. Also I can't believe they still print book that use a D6 to determine the outcome of a result (damage, healing, allegiance points etc). Imo that all has to be replaced with a d3+ some constant (be it 2 or 3 or whatever)

[@Kimtanashino]

Hey @Dino ! Could you tell me how it gets annoying (the allegiance ability) ? For the Slaanesh player or the opponent?

[@jamielaing5244]

Oh and the Slaanesh= shooting idea pretty sure we have Noise Marines/ Emperor's Children to blame for that.

[@WolfpriestCjarl]

yeah he needs to watch 2+tough on youtube to understand Slaanesh better. There definitely one of the lost, but understandably so as most peeps just hyper focus on one aspect of Slaanesh.

[@VinceVenturella]

I know Doug well. I have been playing Slaanesh since 2006, I have about 10K of the army. I understand Slaanesh just fine, don't worry. :)

[@jakessofa8187]

You, as always, make some great points, Prince of Vinceness, about Temptations. When I first read it, I thought "Wow, its is a great mechanic, so thematic, and so on and so forth etc etc" But having it laid out like this, even just time alone, lets say its 1min of interruptions/contemplations each time you offer a dice.... I mean, thats surely going to add 30mins a game alone a minimum. The only way I would find it acceptable is if the Slaanesh player had tear-away pants, and these were ripped away to reveal sparkling hawt pants, and then danced to say "I'm too Sexy" each time. This would add more time, but of course the hilarity to time wasting ratio would be acceptable.

[@dmssp1988]

i always love a show with stoned vince that dude is chill

[@stanleymartin8985]

Watching this video was a negative experience. Hopefully Vince will feel better soon.

[@ghostmutton]

It's amazing that they've had three shots at this book and still can't seem to design the Slaanesh battle traits without breaking one thing or another. I also dislike how much 5+ ward is in the book, a design element that's the antithesis of how I think about Slaanesh.

[@olafolafsson2755]

This. It feels so wrong boring and counter intuitive. Temptation is a mess. List building is quite boring and linear. Let nurgle have those debuffs and ward saves. Slaanesh should move, get more dmg from wounds on enemy or themselves, fighting twice, fight and fade, fighting first, sacrifice own saveroll for more attacks… there are so many ideas for Slaanesh just in one minute of thinking. You could also borrow from other games with similiar heroes or characters and see what would fit Slaanesh. Man this book is even more disappointing because of the last Slaanesh book. I wanted to play them but I personally just don’t like any of their tomes… all 3 of them. They are bad, broken and misdesigned

[@RionikuAnjiru]

That was pretty terrible to watch as someone getting into Hedonites. Makes me want to straight up sell everything while it's boxed.

[@deadbonez7471]

I’ll take your stuff

[@olafolafsson2755]

I was hyped before the release came out. But after reading it it felt very uninspiring and disappointing. I also dont get why slaanesh needs to be so tanky when they get their depravity. Why isnt it that the army gets more dmg. Speed or double activations or sth... It feels like nurgle should actually get all these debuff abilities. It may be strong. But i dislike it a lot. I agree with the vibe of vince in this video and undertand why he isnso negative about it. I have started to rebuild khorne now. This book is way more fun for me.

[@daswookie79]

If you are interested in the army I think you should play it. People can have their own valid opinions, but that doesn’t make them facts. The general consensus when the Nurgle tome was released was that it was bad, but it turns out that wasn’t the case.

[@olafolafsson2755]

The Slaanesh tome is just silly. It has weird rules writing and some of them a very bad for the overall game balance. I would not enjoy playing with or against that army at all. The nurgle problem back in the day was just a misinterpretation of their powerlevel by some people from the internet. (Nurgle flies and maggotlords were strong enough from day1. Anyone could have seen this.) Now we have a very different problem imho. Gonna sell that trash and keep some models for the shelf.

[@VinceVenturella]

It's rough, for me, I like the book fine, but it's a lot of NPE and it's built for a very specific Psychographic profile. We can speak with more nuance than just "thing good and thing bad" here people. Let's not give into the worst sins of the internet. THere will be some people for whom this just doesn't land and isn't a pleasurable play experience - I am likely one of those people and it's a shame. That doesn't mean it's bad, but I can't see this type of army lighting the fire of a large group of people, it will have adherants, but its likely go a challenging road ahead, but time will tell. Also, we priased the Nurgle Book when it came out. We aren't everyone. We are us.

[@scionofchaoz]

yeah the new tempation dice mechanic sucks hard, even a devout slaaneshi maniac such as i doesnt enjoy this kind of pain.... :/

[@davidcampbell621]

I'm really not fond of the incentive for temptations. Its never better to give the depravity so it feels like the slaanesh player should just lean into that and offer it only on pointless rolls. Hammer into your chaff? Offer a depravity to chip mortals. Fail a save against a stupid 1 damage blissbarb/ungor bow shot? Free chip mortals. Allowing the opponent to choose when to take the 6s, in exchange for depravity fixes the incentive, and would fit the narrative better imo, but then its an allegiance ability completely in the opponents control, which is a bit of a feel bad. Probably should've just been scrapped in favour of something else.

[@starslayer2438]

I am very disappointed in this book. While there is cool stuff, it has a couple central flaws. Still more NPE than I would have liked. The main depravity gain mechanic is quite questionable. They stole Nurgle's main army ability for some inexplicable reason. The book threw the rather elegant subfaction / army type system that other 3.0 books have out the window and did a dumb 2.0 hybrid thing. A couple warscrolls for cool minis are bad or at least underwhelming. Yeah, I have quite a few complaints about this book. I hope you are feeling better by now, Vince.

[@Elfinlocksable]

I feel bad because my buddy really likes slaanesh but I just don’t see anyway to have fun against them now outside of bringing some bully list. Depravity is just too strong

[@TheRealThirdME]

This show should have been canceled.. Covid got the better of your thinking Mr. Vince Normally your takes are detailed, nuanced and balanced. This was uninspiring, great things where skipped over and a few statements where even wrong, without self correction as per usual 😢 I hope you get well soon ❤

[@VinceVenturella]

Where did I mess up? happy to self-correct later. Tried to still give the full accurate story. :)

[@TheRealThirdME]

@@VinceVenturella You can only ever do your best, and when I say that the show should have been canceled/postponed, it's only because of the stark contrast compared to the high standards in normal shows. I didn't take notes, but I'll re-watch it later and scribble down my feedback (do you want it here, or is there somewhere more suitable I can msg you?) 👍 Mind, some of the directly wrong stuff I noted was also co-hosts saying wrong stuff without being corrected (which your are normally very on top of) 🙂 Cheers, and get well fast so we can all enjoy your great content!

[@VinceVenturella]

@@TheRealThirdME Oh, I understand and appreciate it, here or whatever works is fine. I just want to make sure I am correct, it's important.