Hellcat lifters MYTHBUSTED

[@JohnSmith-zw6tr]

It’s an idling oil pressure issue. WHEN you replace the lifters/cam, replace the oil pump with a HELLCAT oil pump(bolts up fine) and doubles oil pressure at idle. There’s a sound of sound research that point to this as a significant treatment modification that may certainly delay and or prevent the cam/lifter failure. Then, tune your car and raise the idle to 850; which raises the oil PSI to 55 at idle. I think this is the answer. My previous oil pressure with my 2012 Dodge HEMI Pursuit averaged 15-30 psi (usually 18-20 psi) at idle at operating temperature. Excessive oil should be changed more frequently if idling more than average. Now it averages 50 psi. No one can agree on a cause, some of the popular theories include, lifter angle, insufficient oil gallies to lifters, block flaw, lifter flaw, poor lifter QC in Mexico, poor hardening in lifter, needle bearings and cam shaft, high operating temperature prematurely degraded oil, oil sludge with non synthetic oil, low oil pressure at idle, and last but not least; THE MDS SYSTEM causes lifter to lockup then subsequently bearing failure. MDS has NOTHING to do with it. When MDS activates, it opens the oil galley to the MDS lifters; which helps the MDS lifter; not hurts it. There are PLENTY of non MDS lifters that have failed and cars without MDS that experience Lifter/cam failure. It’s not the MDS. They SHOULD go with BUSHING roller lifters. Needle bearings require very specific hardening and tempering metallurgy treatment. Across the board; this statistically only effects 5% of HEMI vehicles. But, 100% of police and fleet vehicles. Which again is why I say it’s an “low oil pressure at idle”, issue. But, that’s just a theory at this point.

[@UnionThugg]

Agreed. I don't know if it's an oil pressure issue, as there is full volume at idle. Since we don't know the actual cause, finding the cure will be a matter of hit an miss. They've changed lifter vendors several times. They changed to a slightly softer valve spring on the squads. They supposedly hardened the cam lobes. They revised the recommended oil and viscosity. It still happens. Not just on the squads, but it is mostly the police models and other work vehicles. Really, the only thing left to consider is the design. But even that is now a moot point. The 5.7 is already out of production at Saltillo. The 3.0 straight six took its place. The retail 6.4 and the 6 2 HC are next, leaving just the HD 6.4 truck engine. Chrysler isn't about to spend who knows how many millions on a known design flaw, whether it's the lifter design or the cam location. I had a '17 V8-AWD squad I picked up with relatively low miles. It had the cam/lifter package completed by the selling dealer a few months before I bought it. It ran beautifully, no noise whatsoever. Outstanding power and fuel economy. Then, about 10,000 miles later, with very little idling, it started tickin' and a tappin'. That car was the 3rd 5.7 Charger I owned that had failed. I sold the sonuvabitch, and I will never buy another. Now, sure - there will always be umpteen guys that crawl out of the woodwork, claiming they have a so-and-so 5.7 with 8 million miles, and all they ever did was change oil and fuel it up. Yeah, that's credible. The other side of it is that when you talk to the techs, especially at dealers with multiple franchises (Chrysler/Ford or Chrysler/GM), the Chevy also has an appetite for cams and lifters, and Ford has plenty of its own failure-prone components. So they're all junk. Picks your ride and takes your chance. Just be sure to keep a minimum of $2500 set aside for the Dodge or Chevy, and a good 5 to 7500 for a Ford in order to have them repaired. Per incident. I said screw that, I'm out of the new car game. I bought an old Jeep ZJ with the 4.0, fixed it up and ran that for awhile. Now I run a Jeep WK with the 3.7. Yes, the 3.7 has its issues too, but it's not something I can't fix at a much lower cost. A lot of enthusiasts are crying about the new electrics and hybrids. Ha. After all the trouble with today's ICE's, I'm ready to move on.

[@joshkrause2977]

Idling any engine is bad for them, my 5.7 has 144k no issues low idle time.

[@davidphillips3953]

I agree it is not caused whatsoever by MDS, it is also not a fatal flaw in the oiling design as they had the same oiling in 03-08 with basically zero lifter failures. It is also not idling because guess what, the 03-08 also idled in cop cars for hundreds of hours and at a lower speed with less oil pressure than the 09 up and they didn't fail. Actually what had happened was in 2009 they had to re-design the lifters to handle more lift in the eagle engine and at the same time they changed the roller bearing and that is when lifter failure began. You have to remember chrysler was bankrupt and didn't care if the lifter lasted 5 years or not because they didn't expect to be around anymore to have to deal with it so cheapest possible lifter it was.

[@jonh2408]

This problem does not affect only 5% of the hemi engines. If you call a dealership and ask them how many vehicles they see with this problem - they'll tell you "not many" or "we rarely see it". This is because not many people want to pay the extortionate rates that the dealerships charge ($190/hour where I live in Victoria BC). However if you call other less expensive shops (particularly those that specialize in the 5.7) they make a living just on the lifter/cam issue alone. This problem is EXTREMELY common - there is currently a class action lawsuit underway in the US regarding this issue. I own a 2014 grand cherokee with 180,000 km's (110,000 miles) on it. I changed my oil every 5000km (3000m) religiously and avoided idling. I also used penzoil ultra platinum, fully synthetic oil, and still ran into issues.

[@malamri424]

update: I have 71k miles on non mds Enginetech lifters. So far so good.

[@ericbotelho73]

How you making out?

[@malamri424]

87k still good ​@@ericbotelho73

[@salvatorehayes2753]

Only Gripe With eBay Ones Is You Only Vouch Them For A Year. Being A 900HP Car I'm Thinking It Doesn't See Typical Hemi Daily Driving. The Average Life Of MOPAR Lifters In Hemis I've Seen Is Around 150K. Got A Set Of Hellcat Lifters In And So Far Had No Issues With 80K Miles. Truck Has 230,000 Miles Now. We Will See If They Last To 300K.

[@Dezzylyricz]

Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge.

[@BWADaniel]

The hole created for bleedback is whats becoming my problem with these cheap lifters. Every morning on start up, they rattle because they bled.

[@philsharp6120]

Its the rollers that fail and that failure wears the cam lobe. Later lifters (I believe 2017+ srt trackhawk) have bigger needle rollers in lifter roller. How many and how common do these later lifters fail??

[@cldyvsn]

Awesome video. Good info to have. Can't wait for the tear down of these to see!

[@bmf572]

I'm really thinking the "Hellcat lifter" thing is because they really aren't seeing many if any failures on the hellcat engines. I'm really starting to suspect the reason for this is the Hellcats additional oil volume provided by the Hellcats oil pump. I'm also beginning to suspecting weak valve springs are contributing to lifter failures. I'm pulling my valve springs today to have them tested. I've had 3 sets of failed lifters on my 6.1l, one wrecked cam and one spun cam bearing which gave the excuse to do the 426 build I'm working on currently. This time I'm using a Melling HV oil pump and Comp Cam lifters that are far more robust compared to the factory lifters.

[@FuseBeat]

How much is this costing you and blueprinting block?

[@bmf572]

@@FuseBeat all the machine shop work cost around $1400 which included the assem of the lower end.

[@pedroramirez6444]

What’s the name of the lifters you bought from eBay and do you know if they have them on Amazon? And the hole that they have in the middle is that supposed to help with the flow of the oil?

[@anglia427]

Was there any loss of oil pressure with the Ebay lifters?

[@Olsnessc]

Yes there is 😂

[@hgkillzone]

Good video bro, now I know that I could go with some cheap price lifters. Thank you for the info👍👍👍👍

[@darkstrykerx]

The part number for the hellcat lifters interestingly enough is the same on all the hemis if im correct

[@whatsrt1490]

Somewhat, since they only sell lifters in packs of 4 with trays, (mds vs non mds etc) The non MDS part number is the same for non hellcat motors and hellcat motors,

[@ernestosantana4212]

nice explanation, can you please provide me the part# or the link for the ebay lifters? i have a 2010 grand cherokee srt8 6.1 that had a lifter/cam failure so i have to replace the lifters and camshaft, thanks in advance

[@mikhailSRT4]

glad i seen this. i bought ebay ones 2 and everyone is laughing at me .

[@david84ss]

Is there a special procedure for bleeding the lifters? I soaked mine, before install, and a few valves are hanging, so I need to pull the heads and bleed them

[@whatsrt1490]

I never soak them, for that reason, take an Allen head the size of the center oil hole inside the cup and press in, if you get one long enough you can just pull pushrods and do it, no need to pull heads.

[@david84ss]

​@whatsrt1490 thanks for reply, wish I waited, I pulled the heads 😢

[@UnionThugg]

There is no such thing as a "Hellcat" lifter. The newest lifters end in AD, and supercede all previous factory lifters. If you're happy with cheap ebay junk, run it. Some of us don't appreciate noisy valvetrains and flattened cam lobes.

[@whatsrt1490]

I've ran these lifters in my personal Demon supercharged charger for 2 years now, quiet as can be, and never had an issue, so some of us, don't like believing the hype

[@UnionThugg]

@@whatsrt1490 or, more likely, some of you are just very lucky.

[@whatsrt1490]

@@UnionThugg I've built over 100 hemis with them, never a single issue, people don't realize, just because a part I'd sold on ebay, doesn't mean it's "ebay brand"

[@kboxley4794]

@@whatsrt1490 do you have a link or something so I can ask you some questions

[@jockdeeznutz]

@@whatsrt1490 Thanks for the video. In the process of rebuilding my 6.4L hemi after my ringlands broke. I'm procharged and probably should have forged my internals. Anyways I'm doing a MDS delete and saw non-mds lifters are going for $500. I saw ebay ones for $125. So just got with the ebay ones? Thanks!

[@lethalracing5.7]

I have the eBay non mds lifters no ticking and Truck drives great but reads 16-20 psi parked, is it normal?

[@justinllamas4518]

No that’s stupid low mines 40 and I thinks it’s a little low

[@slammedeuro104]

When you doing the tear down of each?

[@christopherbravo9694]

I was about to order some hellcat lifters

[@eyas1990]

What lifter did you use

[@joesmo4749]

What name brand mds lifter do you advise for 5.7 hemi gen 4 in a 2013 ram 1500. Just replaced cam lifters tick bad.

[@whatsrt1490]

Use this video and make your own decision

[@joesmo4749]

@@whatsrt1490 i think the guy did use ebay mds lifters and it ticks bad

[@kboxley4794]

I have a stage 3 hrt comp cam I’m trying to figure out which lifters to run can you or anyone help

[@5.7_Soul]

OEMmmmm

[@donlankford4315]

Take them apart and compare the internals

[@irocsemo9537]

What is the link to the eBay lifters?

[@kboxley4794]

Any issues?

[@ethanbrown3675]

As someone whos had issues moreover with the ebay lifters rather than oem, I’m going to give hellcat lifters a shot. Also using a hellcat oil pump for more volume of oil. More volume is the lifesaver. These 5.7’s just don’t get enough oil to the top end. period, you can put whatever lifter you want in it, they will fail over time. At idle the 5.7 pump just does not hold enough psi to move enough volume of oil to the top. So anyone having lifter issues heres my recommendation. Hellcat oil pump, and whatever lifters you fucking want. Theyre all shitty.

[@whatsrt1490]

Couldn't agree more with you!

[@Reynolds200091]

I bought lifters off of eBay but they didn’t have a bleed back hole

[@224jukke6]

What is the part numbers ?

[@seriouzfilmz9397]

Can I buy a hc adapter plate

[@jonnyboy3674]

Will those ebay lifters fit my 5.7 in my ram? And are the ebay lifters considered to be non mds??

[@UnionThugg]

MDS is not the problem.

[@albertroberson160]

Did you do a delete ?

[@AllSoWavyReese]

Any links to eBay lifters

[@Chosen.24]

Can I put these in a 5.7

[@kurtgainz]

How much would you charge to do the 2015+ swap? On a charger

[@whatsrt1490]

The front end? You would be looking at around $5500

[@whatsrt1490]

And thanks painted to match the car too

[@kurtgainz]

@@whatsrt1490 how long would that labor take? And could you spray the entire car for that price it's still cop blue

[@franktime4425]

Bruh they're different

[@whatsrt1490]

Bruh, I just proved, they're not

[@darthhemi1735]

Correct there is no "hellcat" lifters... I would be worried about enginetechs "redesign" though... those things are cheap sh*t... this is their "fix" they say for lubrication... but it also loses pressure across the lifter bore.... I just get the AD hellcats for 450$ for a set... ebay lifters no thanks, im not risking my engine on that. You can of course bleed off the lifter(i dont know why you said it couldnt). Lifters should hold... I don't know why you are saying lifters should bleed down constantly? Ive already done a video comparing all lifters.

[@robertovalencia1753]

What’s the link?

[@slomango7927]

I’ll stick with my hellcat lifters! In my hellcat 😂🤣

[@whatsrt1490]

Been embarrassing hellcats with ebay lifters for over a year now!, so believe the hype, they'll go out like the rest eventually, done quite a few when I worked at the dealership

[@slomango7927]

@@whatsrt1490 I’ll stick with my embarrassing hellcat anyday 😈

[@theblackdude]

Wonder how them lifters are doing nowadays 🤔🤔

[@Olsnessc]

Those eBay lifters have been tested and loose lots of oil pressure with that design. MMX has a detailed video on it. 😂

[@gothamvelocity8881]

Link?

[@Itzkota2x]

You sold the kit?

[@Itzkota2x]

I’m in Michigan as well

[@whatsrt1490]

I did, but person I sold it to is selling it back to me due to not being able to put it on their vehicle (car was totalled)

[@Itzkota2x]

@@whatsrt1490 well if u sell it let me know I’m in Michigan

[@burtronomaniac]

Hellcat owners don’t go on utube and claim to have a hellcat 😂😂😂😂😂

[@whatsrt1490]

Who's claiming to have a hellcat here? Hmm?

[@marvingreen1133]

You're not supposed to soak lifters

[@communalcometgrantage7508]

??? Why?

[@sentient_musiq1060]

I need to no that to why not?

[@HellcatShaper]

I want to buy the Kit whats your insta or a way to reach you