Helluva Boss Continues to Circle Spiral

[@billydonuts4965]

I think that Helluva Boss has a problem deciding if it wants to be an episodic or serial show.

[@chocodoeeyes]

A question every modern comedy show asks itself after season one

[@rise.-mikey]

Pretty sure Vivzie said that it will be a serialized show.

[@enderwalkgang]

Like we were told it would episodic

[@VenIGuess]

@@rise.-mikey The writing doesn't seem to reflect that.

[@rise.-mikey]

@@VenIGuess How so?

[@coffeecaim2527]

Also with how confident Stolas was with his powers and stuff, he seemed like an ancient being and it turns out he's like 30 😂

[@woomod2445]

The (technically not under the name, but it's nearly identical.) Ars goetia which stolas is from was written in 1583, and there he is supposed to be incredibly established. So yeeaaaahhh, him being like 30 is REALLY WEIRD, and kind of dumb.

[@elizabethk007]

It’s weird thinking about his age because it means Stolas is a lot younger than 90% of the human sinner characters in Hazbin Hotel. He’s basically a baby compared to demons like Charlie

[@everforward5561]

My assumption is that there have been numerous Stolases over the years and it's an inherited name/title.

[@montimation1675]

Oh ya, that threw me off too... I figured that Stolas was actually hundreds, if not thousands of years old. Heck the song he sang to lil' octavia made it sounds like he has had a life time of experiences, but he wasn't even 30 yet.

[@goldenopportunity4544]

Wish they kept him ancient being🙄

[@NetNaviFan2]

19:00 I agree about Loona suddenly becoming violent toward Blitz, if she really was angry about 'The talk" she would've just take her anger out in the office, throw furniture around, breaking things, but never laying a finger on blitz.

[@HelluvaOpp]

Kind of a dumbass thing if you ask everyone! The only times she laid a hand on Blitz was when she GENTLY pushed him away in embarrassment.

[@Dr.Oofers]

@@HelluvaOpp Didn’t she also crotch kick him later in Ep2 of season 2

[@HelluvaOpp]

@@Dr.Oofers Yeah… and it was out of character!

[@briasinterlude1755]

Another note: Since the fandom want to use the “gender reversal” scenario for Stolas and Stella’s case, imagine Blitz (the guardian) physically lashes out at Loona (his adopted daughter). Would they say “Well he had a hard life” or “That’s just how he shows his love”? Why is one instance of male domestic violence taken seriously while the other is seen as comic relief?

[@Spectra651]

Wait, when did *that* happen? I don't ever remember Blitz lashing out at Loona, not a single time. If anything he's *too* lovey-dovey towards her and treats her like a daddy's-girl. Yes, if Blitz *did* lash out at her that wouldn't be funny at all, but that never happens. There's plenty of Loona lashing out at him, however, so I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to get at with this hypothetical (serious question, not tryin' to be a jerk).

[@briasinterlude1755]

@@Spectra651 I didn’t say it actually happened. It’s a hypothetical to demonstrate that people wouldn’t have the same reaction if Blitz treated Loona the way she treats him.

[@Spectra651]

@@briasinterlude1755 I see, thanks for clarifying.

[@briasinterlude1755]

@@Spectra651 You’re welcome

[@redpanda6497]

IKR

[@VantaDraws]

Come to think of it, have we ever seen Octavia interact with Stella? It’s weird to think we haven’t seen their dynamic even though they’re mother and daughter

[@doubleh333lix]

the show doesn’t care about relationships between women lol

[@Nightman221k]

@@doubleh333lix If this series passes the Bechdel test it'd be a technicality. Everything in a female characters' life in Helluva Boss orbits around the males.

[@kirin1230]

​@@Nightman221kDoes this series actually still not pass the Bechdel test? I genuinely can't think of anything besides Millie and her mom talking (about Moxxie so it doesn't even count)

[@nerdyandweirdybutmighty5256]

This show doesn't care about relationships between females, and it doesn't care about Stella and Octavia as anything other than plot devices for stolas never mind that they are mother and daughter all that matters is that they are used as tools to make stolas as sympathetic and blameless as possible it's truly pathetic

[@ploopy6160]

@@doubleh333lix nah it doesnt care about *any* relationship that isnt between blitzø and stolas 💀

[@L0L_puk3]

I absolutely DESPISE Loona and Blitz' relationship is. Blitz tries his best to be a good dad, has his flaws obviously but throughout the show you can TELL he's a good enough dad. And all Loona does is fuck him up for comedic purposes. After that heartfelt moment with Via you'd think that after seeing Blitz run to her with open arms she'd AT LEAST let him hug her and sneak a smile But no, she kicks him in the nuts. Oh yeah, that scene with Via? Thrown away completely

[@RedHatClub]

Yeah like when I saw the scene with Blitz running to her I was so happy because I expected her to give him a hug or just allow a hug from him after the Via speech. My jaw literally dropped when she kicked him so painfully and it was so awkward and just sad. Wtf were they thinking it completely destroyed Loona as a character for me and she's not even like that in the previous episodes, she's aloof, pushy and moody to Blitz but physical abùse what the hell.

[@PolterPup.]

i feel like they’re trying to make it a love hate relationship but don’t properly know how to execute it

[@Corrector1]

Perhaps part of the problem is that Helluva Boss is a black comedy, but it still wants you to feel sympathetic towards the characters at key moments. That can be a tricky thing to balance.

[@seallop6707]

For me, the biggest question is why in a show about a killing agency in hell there is no actual episodes of being one. I mean, there were episodes where they did their work as a killing agency (the first one and the C.H.E.R.U.B one) but other episodes are about a whole different thing. The episodes are never actually about the agency and I don't understand why. Now it's not a dark comedy. It's a drama with unnecessary jokes that are usually not even funny and seem out of place! P.S. I hope I spoke my mind clearly, English is not my first language.

[@felixhunter589]

Agreed, the pilot was all about their work and episode 1 delivered on that premises, but then it kinda drifted away. Ngl, I’m gonna be a bit disappointed if the season ends and there wasn’t an episode about how all the people they killing didn’t show up again in hell. Like Martha for example

[@shai17altamiranoanco77]

When the series was confirmed to happen i was hyped for more episodeslike the pilot one, the idea of a killing agency sounds fun and enterteining but nowadays it seems like the main plot is abot an angsty romance drama written by a teenager

[@jpiny4854]

@@shai17altamiranoanco77 they really did forgot about the main premice that is a bunch of flawed assholes demons killing people and now is a romance fan fiction of itself

[@krabkrabby]

I 100% agree.

[@bomberman9296]

The killing agency was what got me into watching the show so it is such a shame they stopped doing episodes about it

[@anfani6839]

Idk, I am still kinda confused why Stolas and Blitz just absolutely HAD to be childhood friends... It doesnt make sense, why wouldnt they see each other again for over 20 years and then Blitz suddenly decides to seduce and rob him THEN?? It doesnt feel like a natural way of developing and too convinient. And yes, Loona is absolutely toxic towards Blitz and I would've wished she had taken the conversation with Octavia more to heart and maybe overthink her past behavior at least a little, instead of kicking him into the nuts...

[@realJoeMavro]

That was bad writing, pure and simple. Maybe they wanted to fill some sort of slapstick quota, maybe the new writer just didn't know what he was doing, but it was a bad scene.

[@leavemealone802]

And you know, it could've worked, that is what pisses me off. The show didn't show any signs of them knowing each other since childhood, only that they met as adults, had a affair, and caught feelings- that was perfect, and it fit with both the characters and the story Now, of they HAD to make them childhood friends, it was the easiest thing in the world to make it work: - make it Blitz visit him more and more as children, after his father (care taker?) notices how much money blitz is stealing - make Blitz be more confortable, maybe romantically interested in Stolas, and forgetting to steal, or refusing to steal anymore from the child. - Make Stolas form a friendship, once sided attraction with Stella to make the relationship have more depth, and fit with the narrative that before they had a "home" and that Stolas would be embarrassing to cheat on her. Is important that is shown him being more okay with the marriage, to not having him run off with Blitz or something. - Make Blitz realized "Oh, silly me of course he isn't into me, he just wants my company. That is fine I only want his money." That sets the core of their relationship. - instead of not seeing each other for 20 years, make them not seeing each other for like 12. Make Blitz keep messing and stealing from Stolas all their childhood and stopping when Octavia sees him for the first time, as a 5 years old. In those years separated make him date other people, start his company, adopt Luna, so he has more and more reasons to come back And during this time, without Blitz, is when Stella starts to grow a grudge against stolas, because he either acts cold, or annoyed b3cause he doesn't seen Blitz anymore -THEN THEY CAN HAVE SEX. It settles that, their relationship since the beginning started as someone using the other (Blitz for Stolas money and power, and stolas for Blitz company) and now as adults they start to wonder why can't they just be together Seriously, it was EXTREMELY easy to fix. And it didn't even had to happen in the same episode. Each episode of season 2 started with a flashback - episode 1 show them meeting and Forming the friendship, and Blitz being forced to coming back to get more money (cuts to stolas moping and crying after realizing he was used), episode 2 shows Stolas and Stella forming a friendship (cuts to them fighting on the phone), and so on and so forward.

[@junelaananke7138]

Because Blitzo was literally hired to be his friend and it was made pretty apparent that while he had fun, he was interested only in taking advantage of Stolas, just like he was years later. I think everyone's met someone they talked to once, had a good time with, and then never did again. Stolas himself immediately after that was arranged to Stella and moved on with his life, Blitzo had his own adventures with trying and failing to be a star. That makes sense to me. Most likely he only showed up years later because he was looking for what he thought was his only way to the surface world and after creating his business he suddenly needed that as opposed to when he didn't before. The seduction only came about as a result of Stolas flirting with him first with the 'ravish me' comment. The idea that you would accept that he would target a stranger knowing about the grimoir, but not the idea of targeting someone he met YEARS ago thinking he might have some leeway as a result of that *and* knowing about the gimoir doesn't make sense to me. And yeah, Loona *is* toxic to him, we see why within the episode. It doesn't justify it, but does explain it, and in the future they may do something with developing her character, this wasn't an episode about her. They did in episode three of last season, and her relationship with Tex stuck. Though, with how underdeveloped her and Millie feel compared to Moxie and Blitzo, I do question if they will myself.

[@Jdudec367]

@@realJoeMavro It really wasn't bad writing. I doubt that was it...season 2 was episode 1 was being worked on around the same time season 1 was being finished. It wasn't a bad scene.

[@Jdudec367]

Because why can't they be childhood friends? It does make sense. Because Stolas was busy with other stuff in life with being royalty and all. Not really...it honestly seems like a natural way of developing and isn't too convenient.

[@iamperish]

Blitz and Stolas have seemed to have undergone what I call the "yaoi treatment". Especially Stolas. In the beginning it was no question that he and stella were arranged to marry but instead of her being heartless I just assumed they were too young to fully comprehend what marriage was outside of some sort of political agreement. Thus, their connection and the fact he cheated can still sting even if they weren't in love with each other. The fact Stella is an abusive asshole wouldn't be a problem if it's purpose wasn't only to validate why Stolas belong with Blitz/promoting the sad innocent gay baby man.

[@puffpufferfish]

Late as hell but agreed, I’ve also started to notice that Stella’s underlying purpose is to prove why Stolas should be with Blitz. It strips any depth that her character could have had. It’s okay to have a messy love story where someone else can be in the wrong, and I think that’s something that should really be considered for the future of this series.

[@perro692]

Helluva boss, where violence inside a family is sometimes just funny slapstick, and sometimes very serious hints about a relationship being abusive that you should take very very seriously and you should've seen coming from the start

[@yeayeayeah933]

I know right? It's both ha ha they're demons in hell them beating the shit outta each other is funny But also um ackshually its literal domestic aboose to say mean things at a party about a character you're supposed to root for

[@gaynchor]

Can we talk how stolas somehow always forgets his daughter or neglect her (even tho it's not on purpose I guess) and then oh no he realise and apologize but it happens again so often and I dunno it bugs me and anyone still says he's the best dad for whatever reason

[@TuesdaysArt]

A lot of people have really low bars for dads, especially in adult animation. The most prominent adult sitcom cartoon dad had a running joke where he strangled his son and it went on unquestioned for 25+ years...and even then, people gush over him having the occasional sweet moment with Lisa or that damn "Do It For Her" scene (when he sometimes forgets Maggie even exists in other episodes). As long as Stolas says "I love you" to his daughter and doesn't try to kill her, he's dad of the year.

[@cakefrosting6451]

Finally someone who can see Stolas literally neglects or acts like Octavia doesn’t exist, until it’s convenient to the plot for him to start caring. For a show which first tried to be a dark comedy now trying to be very deep and meaningful, I’m surprised they never changed Stolas being downright neglectful towards Octavia, as well as how his choice of words in episode 1 of season 2 suggests he sees Octavia more as an asset, rather than you know, his daughter. It just disgusts me how he speaks of Octavia as “the precautionary heir to Goetia family”, rather than referring to her as “our daughter”. The retcon was a bad idea, it noobified Stolas and also successfully made Stolas more loathsome than likeable to me, especially when people claim he’s the “best dad”.

[@verdanawebster20x]

​@@cakefrosting6451I legit was hoping this episode would be focusing on Octavia possibly overhearing that conversation between Stella and Stolas- and how the entire time he doesn't even refer to her BY NAME, just "that girl", or "precautionary heir". I don't hear anyone even bring that up either, with how Stolas talked about her

[@billcipher8645]

​@@cakefrosting6451 I'm pretty sure he said that in season 2 because that's what Olivia is to Stella and he wanted to rub it into her face. I still believe season 2 did character assasination to almost every character that starred so far

[@Takejiro24]

​@@verdanawebster20x Hearing him call Octavia was weird for me. I'm like, "'That girl'? Sir, your daughter, whom you seemingly love more than Blitzo, has a NAME!"

[@michaelp3609]

Really feels like there are two different writing teams here

[@enderwalkgang]

There's three writers, this was the first time the main two weren't writing

[@VenIGuess]

@@enderwalkgang Makes sense...

[@Ranigonzalez922]

Not only that,it seems like the "nEw WrItTeRs" didn't even watch the other episodes💀

[@entilopi8399]

I've noticed a theme with the helluva boss writing too, some episodes would be really bad and then some others would be fucking great

[@doubleaabattery7562]

@@entilopi8399 and it seems like every time the writing dips is when the main writers head out for a sec...

[@PlanetZoidstar]

Loona is meant to be 23 but she acts like she's 16. Especially in this episode. Really the entire episode feels like it was written as a fanfic that got made canon.

[@mamawhereareyouu5286]

Pretty sure it was written by someone new

[@brgirl4493]

I've read some fanfics made by the fandom and I can say that they are 10000X better and they handle the characters in a few chapters better than the show ever did in 10 episodes

[@PlanetZoidstar]

@@brgirl4493 Yeah, it's amazing how quickly Helluva Boss gave up on its premise and just became Stolitz shipping fodder.

[@brgirl4493]

@@PlanetZoidstar It's the thing that brings money more than a good writting, unfortunately, I know how it is, I put a lot of effort in make a good writing on my fanfic and it has less attention than all the others

[@-_abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz_-]

I thought she was a teenager by how she looks and acts, wdym she's 23 years old? 😶

[@isle-unto-thyself]

Helluva Boss started off as a series with really good potential and has devolved into an angsty uwu gay series with no other purpose than to get the yaoi girls excited. I feel like the series still has some good bits (like in this episode with Bliztos trauma surrounding performing and being on stage) but its buried under a lot of yuck and pretty colors. Also I'm tired of seeing skinny guys in suits 😭 I just want a demon from vivziepop who isnt a desperate attempt to be a tumblr sexyman

[@denysvision]

bruh stfu you know that this is not this series is all about

[@krabkrabby]

Look, I couldn't have said it better. This isn't a rough dark funny comedy with some positive messages anymore. It's just about a 30 years Gary Stu demon disney-prince that is abused in his family by his cruel wife, and everything is against him, but he's a good father even if he constantly mistreat his daughter (because he's a Gary Stu), and he's super op but also weak (because he's a Gary Stu) and he does a lot of sh1t but hey, everyone will forgive him because he's a Gary Stu. So disappointed.. I loved the Pilot so much and Blitzo was so good... What a shame.

[@nerdyandweirdybutmighty5256]

​​@@krabkrabbyFinally SOMEONE WHO AGREES WITH ME THAT STOLAS IS A GARY STUE THANK YOU He really is the show spoiled baby and the most pathetic character in the whole series

[@kai7700]

Luna and Octavia should've been the entire episode. Stolas and Blitzo would just start off with the whole conversations scene with their daughters. Once Octavia sneaks to get the book and luna being the only one to see that jumps in before it closes. All the important scenes like Luna backstory could be her own reflection and realization as she's hanging out with her. It would be cool that near the end it was Stolas realizing thats she's missing which would make him appear how much he cares or how much the divorce is taking a toll with his relationship with Octavia. Blitz and stolas are very awkward until they shake it off bc their daughters come first.

[@barryb.benson3083]

Should of been the episode

[@felixhunter589]

I Completely love this idea and the loona flash back being from the POV of loona instead of Blizo. Having it be from the POV of Blizo was still a really good, sad and impactful moment, but lately any sense of lore or development just seems to be around Bliz and no other character? Which I see as a waste

[@ellencoleman4604]

@@felixhunter589 I don't know, part of the point of Luna is that she never shows vunerability. I think showing too much of her backstory this early would actually impact the character in a negative way. It would end up playing too much into how the audience views her - the sad orphan girl. I sometimes think 'if this character were a real person, would they WANT me to know their backstory'. If they're particularly, damaged, it should take longer for them to 'open up', like someone does in real life. Otherwise it feels invasive to me, a sort of bad moral teaching of entitlement for the audience (especially when the character is 'younger' in this case). Blitz also hasn't had a lot of his damage revealed, but the part with him adopting is something new. It's not the biggest issue he has but it implies an 'opening up' moment with Stolas even if there wasn't an actual conversation. I think the whole point was that it wasn't directly about him, so it could act as a stepping stone to opening up his full backstory (unless that's the missing episode). For Luna's perspective, she needs some more stepping stones first.

[@mikakarbassioon2429]

it was a good episode people stop complaining!😡

[@kai7700]

@@ellencoleman4604 That's a good point, I'd imagine they would rewrite that scene of instead of a breakdown, she just once again storms off angrily The alternative would be maybe even quicker flash scenes, I can imagine that part pf their hangouts could involve them walking around until they stumble a shelter that terribly mistreats the dog, a quick glance of her memories,up to when the dog lady makes a comment abt her with Blitzo, and she gets mad (I do prefer that after that it would show her how she reacted to meeting blitz and he introduces himself before the flash back ends). Instead pf a breakdown in a theater, its a recuse mission to release the locked up animals. I would say itd be a stealth mission but her character would probably confront it head on. This is just a lot of wishful thinking and assuming that the lost episode with the clip of luna and blitzo talking in the mini van would have given the spotlight to their relationship. This episode would just focus more of Octavia issues and girls night rather than it's girl's night, plus Octavia AND Luna heavy baggage as well.

[@TidalVex]

What's hilarious is that I've read Helluva Boss fanfics that have more consistent characterization than this episode, even ones with similar premises to the episode. Octavia is my favorite character and it sucks that she's not even the star of her own damn episode, and Loona was so mischaracterized that it's insulting. If I were to fix this episode, have Loona go after Octavia with the thought of "If I can get Stolas' daughter back on my own, then I can prove that I'm useful and Blitzo won't kick me out." We get the flashback from her perspective, fleshing her out, and only have Blitzo and Stolas show up at the beginning and end of the episode of we can focus all of our time on Octavia and Loona bonding. Also yeah, Stella is completely wasted, and anything they do in the future to "flesh her out" is going to ring real hollow.

[@themightypitazita]

You're absolutely right when you say that some fanfics have better characterization than the actual show- I've actually stumbled upon a few that genuinely surprised me with how well they were written compared to what we've gotten with the past two eps

[@crusaderpr7683]

mano what you said about the fanfics is so true it hurts XDDDDDD

[@crusaderpr7683]

i have been seeing random devianart fanfics can you recommend some?

[@leavemealone802]

I find it fascinating really. When a show is well written, fanfics of the show can be come out as silly, or clearly as a character study or a different perspective of the show (where the true gems are shown). When the show is bad written, confusing or just bad I'm general, fanfics fix it. It becomes a alot more interesting shown and is more fun to.follow the fan content than the original content. I think this is so interesting, because it shows wild open when the creators are either being incompetent or lazy, and that it only needs one writer to make the job of a whole team

[@TidalVex]

@@codadvancedwarfare0573 any story by TalosLives on AO3 is a good place to start. One of my favorite authors in the fandom

[@scootie_scoot]

it’s so weird that this spin off dark comedy spiraled into some sort of odd…plot heavy, musical drama? the more they try to put “depth” in these characters the more it falls apart

[@kingj9664]

Not sure about but whatever

[@coffeecaim2527]

Honestly should have stayed episodic and left the story musical stuff for hazbin

[@scootie_scoot]

@@coffeecaim2527 I agree, feels like viv was too eager to work on hazbin she shoe-horned it into an existing project

[@scootie_scoot]

@@coffeecaim2527 I agree, feels like viv was too eager to work on hazbin she shoe-horned it into an existing project

[@catgames703]

I mean I really enjoyed the first season, but the second season so far has been disappointing. For the first season, my only criticism was that Millie and some other characters didn't get enough screen time. But I thought that us overall a pretty small problem that can be easily fixed in season 2. But boy has been season 2 disappointing so far.

[@xxxbenxx1720]

Seeing how Helluva Boss is written, it makes me a little scared for Hazbin. But from the vibes I'm getting, it almost seems like Viv doesn't necessarily know the complete narrative for Helluva, which seems like the main reason why it got this sudden retcon and why Helluva is just all over the place. Hazbin Hotel on the other hand has been in the works for years from what Viv has said and she knows where the story goes. I feel like Hazbin will possibly have a lot more of a smoother pace and fleshed out story than Helluva.

[@oodragonoo6702]

We can only hope at this point. Either way I'll still watch cause I'm a fan, but I won't excuse shitty writing.

[@Pauli-dg2yv]

Bleh. i have given up on the series after they retcon Stella. I really was invested to see her side of the story but nope. She is a one page villain i guess

[@xxxbenxx1720]

@@Pauli-dg2yv That's honestly understandable. Stella is my least favorite character in the entire show and is unlikable in my opinion. The retcon of the show is what made me more uninterested in helluva.

[@cakefrosting6451]

The last time someone said they know how a story goes, HGS was the result… but I hope Vivzie actually has a good idea how Hazbin plays out, considering she had 2 previous projects before Hazbin that have ended with no proper conclusions. (It’s also unlikely that Viv doesn’t know what she’s doing for Helluva Boss considering work on season 2 started when Loo Loo Land dropped, which makes me wonder exactly what she wants with the story)

[@guerreiroazul3230]

I wouldn't be, the Hazbin pilot was already bad with its terrible pacing, dumb to the point of obnoxiousness protagonist, useless songs, on the nose writing, and overall nonsense story. I doubt the full thing can be much worse

[@rosebud8043]

My main problem with this show especially this one is that Blitzo just NEEDS to be in every single episode and has to take center stage. Even when the episode isn't about him (Harvest Moon) he takes up too much screen time, and lets' face it, it's because Brandon Rogers voices him. I like Brandon Rogers, but Helluva Boss isn't the Blitzo show, if it was, episode 1 wouldn't have focus on Moxxie. This ep just should have been Octavia and Loona, and not set in the human world but another ring that's dedicated to show business and movies like Envy (I assume)

[@venusdied6452]

yeah I'm starting to think that helluva boss is like steven universe where every single episode steven had to be in there even if it's not about him This reallt limits proper character development

[@coffeecaim2527]

Most of the episodes are just Stolitz

[@MrMelonsz]

Same with mnms in the latest episode.

[@smcphee8499]

I somewhat agree, I think he’s fine in moon festival. The dynamic between him and Striker was good and will likely play role in other episodes. But, yeah I don’t this show has faith in there females characters.

[@aaunyea4799]

@@venusdied6452 And just like Steven Universe, it's getting worse but at this point I'm following it just to see how it ends😔

[@linz_10]

Octavia is definitely the best character in this show and she deserved so much better

[@MrMelonsz]

Best in terms of morality or most well-developed as a character? Just wondering. 😅

[@devilheartcandy]

@@MrMelonsz probs both. She has a simplistic charm with how her character is easy to understand, but not flat like Millie or Stella. Plus she has every right to be upset with Stolas.

[@smcphee8499]

It’s like they’re scared to focus an episode on something other Blitzo, Stolas, or Moxie. They no faith in their female characters.

[@SirToaster9330]

She honestly was one of the show's nicest characters, but then Circus made her look selfish and a product

[@poumybeloved]

She had the best potential for growth but they ruined it.

[@KittyBGaming]

This is why you write out your big series story first so mistakes like this don’t happen The only reason I could see why they failed so hard is because they cared more about fan service than story WHICH SHOULD NEVER BE DONE!

[@greenamber9827]

The story was planned from the beginning, the writers aren't making it up as they go along.

[@crowdlycrow3632]

@@greenamber9827 Do you work with them? How can you be so sure? Because what I've seen this seems true.

[@mrbusinesss1]

@@crowdlycrow3632 I mean they're right, cause according to the live streams and Q&A sessions they did with the cast (plus some signing streams), they mentioned having been done recording the voices for season 2 in 2020 when season 1 was only at episode 2

[@FernandoMazzo175]

@@mrbusinesss1 I bet my ass this is all a big lie they only did just to seem more professional and get the fans to be more loving towards the series.

[@FernandoMazzo175]

"they cared more about fan service than story" *90% Of All Anime Ever Be Like:*

[@Sleeper2k]

I can't believe more people aren't talking about this. The story took such a massive downgrade and people are just denying it because apparently everything helluva boss related must be automatically good in their eyes. I'm glad at least some people are realizing the issues, and you summarized the whole problem quite well. Thanks for that :)

[@Sleeper2k]

@@SurealG Turning previously well established and interesting characters that I've rarely ever seen in media into flat one note characters (stolas and especially stella) seems like a big downgrade to me. The beginning recap of the video illustrates my thoughts on this very well

[@MrMelonsz]

@@Sleeper2kGreat explanation. I wouldn’t have the energy to summarise everything I dislike about season 2 to any more people. I’ve done it too many times lol.

[@Amexy-mr6lw]

I havent seen season 2 episode 2 yet but i really enjoyed everything i've watched as a new fan except the cherubi episode which was a bit boring. Is episode 2 as bad as some people are sayin?

[@jatman9556]

Honestly it would be better if this episode was set somewhere before Ozzie's cause that would make alot more sense then putting it afterwards. It feels like we missed a really important detail in this episode.

[@terrizoop3739]

@@Amexy-mr6lw eh, I wouldn’t say it’s as boring as the cherub episode, but it’s kinda…weird. The pacing is funky, characters act kinda out-of-character, there’s some heartfelt moments but it’s quick and doesn’t take up much of the episode It’s the first HB episode I found myself actively skipping through a bit

[@ghostsurfer23]

My only guess as to what happened (other than VivziPop changing her mind a lot and the show utilizing other writers that aren't as experienced or on the same page) was they planned on developing the Blitz/Stolas romance slowly and fleshing out both their characters, but since that romance was what the fans responded to so strongly in season 1, they rushed that storyline into being the main focus, but that meant changing a lot of shit that would have been better had it been revealed organically.

[@leavemealone802]

Damn, if that is true I lost all the respect I still had left for Vivz. That is a awful way to develop a show

[@cheriharrington7487]

Actually, season 2 has been in development since December of 2021 when Loo Loo Land came out, where Adam Neylan revealed a screenshot of the script for Seeing Stars, it’s been planned all the way back since at least the very beginning

[@StarryInkArt]

Yep unfortunately. Thats why I make a story the way I want not because something is popular.

[@leavemealone802]

@@cheriharrington7487 but is not that far-fetched to assume they changer things only to please the fans. If they got only the script to record the lines, before animating, there was still alot of time to change things that was necessary. Otherwise, that just means Vivz and her team are not good writers, and I honestly don't know which one is worse

[@the_pumpking_]

@@cheriharrington7487 still, it doesn't excuse retconning the *ENTIRE* series and development of the characters for one reason or another. It's the worst thing you can do to a "semi" serialized show

[@AverageDonaldDuckFan]

Loona telling Octavia to cut her dad some slack for doing the bare minimum and to forgive him for hurting her constantly 💀

[@japanesejackalope]

I mean I can see why she’d say that considering she’s clearly only had one parental figure in her life. So she’s giving advice on what little experience she has with having a dad but yeah not a great message.

[@ashebennett7726]

The bare minimum? He put up with abuse for years out of duty and to give her a normal life! Even the wife who doesn’t get off to anything but to torment Stolas and make his life a total shit hole. He’s been suffering for his family for years especially for his daughter! Excuse him for not being perfect, or how to handle things properly. I wish my dad would try, keyword: TRY, like Stolas but he was all like “f*ck you guys. I’m tired of y’all. I have only one life and I’m not spending one more minute of that life with you.” My dad was the one who did the bare minimum. What Stolas does was try to be a good father but unintentionally hurts his daughter while trying to be better. At least Stolas isn’t willing to orphan his own daughter despite having every right to against his abuser because he puts her first like his done for years. He has every right to be a bit selfish but he still tries for his daughters sake. Loona didn’t tell Octavia to forgive him just to cut him some slack. Because she is right, everyone has issues that’s not so simple. Sometimes we hurt the people we love without meaning to when we have issues ourselves and that’s inevitable. It’s about how you communicate and handle it that matters.

[@Lemoncakelover678]

@@ashebennett7726 stolas still slept with blitzo in Stellas bed despite Octavia hearing her mom yell about it to him. He literally forget about his own daughter for some imp d1ck. In this episode, he's pettily arguing with Stella right in his daughters face. He tries to be a good father but he forgets that priority for his own advance, this is one of the reasons why loonas speech of giving him slack is a problem because not only is she abusive to her dad and still doesn't give him slack at the end but also because with the issues stolas had, he should be called out and developed, not be excused and have his daughter forgive his actions just because he does what every parent should do. People don't expect perfection from stolas, their expecting him to actually be hold accountable for his actions to grow and change

[@Jdudec367]

@@Lemoncakelover678 It really isn't a problem as she more so just can't take criticism more then anything. And he was called out and is developing but he can be excused a BIT. Octavia was still right though about him ignoring her though but he does still clearly care about her.

[@Jdudec367]

I mean...he does more then the bare minimum...he does care about her clearly and Loona isn't saying to forgive him for everything.

[@minigmaenigma]

I just wanna let you know as someone who used to be super into the Helluva/ Hazbin fandom YOU ARE SO BRAVE. Like this is one of the most level-headed and reasonable reviews I've seen and I'm seeing the stupidest fucking takes about it on Twitter😭 You've perfectly worded so many issues I've had with the new season and it's depressing how strongly the fanbase just DOES NOT want to hear valid criticism

[@Jdudec367]

what stupid takes? I dunno...maybe the criticism isn't valid.

[@capt.artemislivius7601]

@@Jdudec367 I'm gonna assume you haven't seen that Twitter stuff and move on...

[@Jdudec367]

@@capt.artemislivius7601 what do you mean?

[@capt.artemislivius7601]

@@Jdudec367 How toxic Twitter can be? It's so toxic heated arguments aren't just heated, they're making noises on radiation dials.

[@Jdudec367]

@@capt.artemislivius7601 Oh yeah I know that.

[@wiwitutsu2175]

The uwufication of stolas

[@bluesherbet2741]

Woobification? No, uwufication is now the word.

[@wiwitutsu2175]

@@bluesherbet2741 same thing 🙄🙄🙄

[@michellewilliams9895]

THANK YOU you listed every inconsistency perfectly. From the moment i finished circus, i yelled "WTF?!" They had some really solid character building in season 1 and just randomly decided to throw a grenade lol

[@Ranigonzalez922]

Honestly,they are kinda slowly making Stolas the main character-

[@0deadx21]

I just wanna know what fucking character Stolas is because S1 and S2 contradict each other via retcons.

[@krabkrabby]

And it's very bad because he's very poorly written. Stolas had a bad downgrade yet they think it's a good idea to make him the main character.. Tf..

[@kirin1230]

Stolas was always a main character, he just didn't get much screentime in the pilot. Even when the pilot released, the show synopsis still made it clear Stolas was an important character. The show synopsis only mentions Stolas, and I think Blitzo. Stolas was always destined to have great narrative importance imo. Whether that's good or bad subjective.

[@krabkrabby]

@@kirin1230 He wasn't since the pilot must show what you will find in the show, and he was a side character who barely appeared for some seconds. The pilot is on Blitzo and the IMP. Stolas barely appear in ep 1 and he's not even the protagonist of ep 2 (the main character of that ep is Octavia). He doesn't even shows up in ep 3 for what I recall. Even in ep 5 when he was a bit more important, the focus was on Moxxie and Blitzo. You can't say he's the main character since he's not important in season 1, and in many episodes he shows up for few seconds. He was projected as a side character, clearly. They slowly changed his personality, and now that he has the characteristics of a flat Gary Stue from a bad teenager fanfiction about gay love, they're making him the main character focusing everything on him, changing the genre of the series. It was an original funny dark comedy with 3 little demons and a werewolf (who worked in an agency of professional assassins) as protagonists. Now it's a bad romance with a Gary Stu as a main character. It's a terrible downgrade and I'm pretty certain that the serie won't live for long if they persist that way. They have restricted their own audience. Dumb move.

[@Prior2Popular]

Now that you say that, I’m realizing you’re completely correct 😮

[@briasinterlude1755]

Viv is really selling Stolitz and forcibly catering S2 around them. I mean they’ve been selling lovey-dovey merch of them since S1 when the characters are nothing like that in the show.

[@TheDawnofVanlife]

I just feel like Stolas x Blitzo got popular and the plot was lost. The fun part of this show was the idea of a business in hell where the recently dead got to hire someone to do revenge on the people they perceived as having wronged them. Where is that fun plot? Now it’s all Blitz/Stolas drama/

[@RAINBOWNIGTHMAREPRODUCTIONS]

The script for the circus and this episode were written two years ago, before even Lo Lo Land came out

[@karolinakuc4783]

They could have Blitz and Stolas drama. I just feel that the show doesn't need to be only about Blitz. I think there could be episodes that do not focus on Blitz at all like it was in Bojack Horseman.

[@deringjosuegarcia1531]

@@RAINBOWNIGTHMAREPRODUCTIONS So you are saying we were screwed from the beginning?

[@Prior2Popular]

So real

[@smugbowkid9919]

Hezu’s genuine enjoyment of the show really shows how these reviews are actually honest- because they like the media, they can see the problems as well.

[@HelluvaOpp]

Honesty is telling the truth, and the truth is a good thing!

[@skylermaves7272]

I never liked Stolas so honestly the creepy relationship he has with Blitzo still creeps me out

[@yeayeayeah933]

My sentiment exactly.

[@Megalicous]

Their whole relationship is disgusting and people who ship them only like them but because its the nwlnw relationship they can fetishized

[@krabkrabby]

Same here. Stolas is terribly written, they really ruined the show concentrating everything on him..

[@JunkiestPile]

Same. I was always afraid to say anything but the relationship just feels shallow.

[@hyacinth_enthusiast]

YES, thank you. Stolas is abusing poor Blitz bro

[@lordoftheslums8741]

Still gonna say the same thing, they really screwed up the characters in season two. Feels like different characters. Good job on this video hezu keep it up.

[@Gundam_JAY]

I respectfully disagree 🤔

[@lordoftheslums8741]

That’s fair, to each there own

[@kingofflames738]

The seasons seem so incredibly separated from each other. Season 2 is basically a full on reboot as opposed to a continuation.

[@spritemon98]

@@kingofflames738 yeah that's how I'm seeing it too

[@Gundam_JAY]

@@lordoftheslums8741 👍 cool

[@meeplol145]

It doesn’t seem like the show is about them killing people in the human world anymore. It’s good to flesh out characters but I feel like it’s all the show is now- hopefully they go back to what it previously was (maybe??) meant to be.

[@budderdust473]

Yea. And also they could have written the IMP job part and character parts in the story mash well together at the same time, like how the series "Inside Job" did with Reagan and Brett.

[@crazygamer_1082]

I’m gonna say it. They ruined Stella’s potential. Because making her just the “I’m bad for bad’s sake but lack any on screen development because I’m evil” Is horrible writing. They had already established WHY Stella was mad. Stolas cheated with an imp and she’s pissed about it. It’s to be assumed they COULDN’T divorce because if they wanted too what was really stopping them? Their family? Highly doubtful. Especially since Stolas didn’t seem bothered by his wife’s attempt on his life but DID feel bad about hurting her while cheating. It seemed as though the real reason they never got divorced after the cheating incident (or before) was because they genuinely loved and cared for each other just not in a romantic sense. Now all of a sudden he hates her guts and gets pissed when she’s in the room? Umm huh? Where was that energy on the ASSASSINATION she was planning for you IN FRONT OF YOU? Let’s just be honest people are just blinded by their Stolas x Blitzo ship to realize the show is sinking. 😂

[@queeniedramanicole9427]

Or maybe she tried to kill him several times. Stella has always been a bitch. Even before Season 2 Episode 1. Like only caring Stolas slept with a lower class citizen, throwing the poor imp servant across the room, and hiring a hitman on her husband in front of their daughter? The only evidence you have is the family portrait where she looks like she's forcing a smile and that's the only thing. Stolas never loved Stella and stayed in the marriage for his daughter and to make it work out for his wife and so his high-class family doesn't get pissed. In arranged marriages, divorce isn't just simple and wasn't at all common.

[@coffeeservice2850]

Plus, with the potential that Stella *did* have (Her begin an woman in… theoretically, male dominated and lead monarchy (question marks cause despite having one finished season, the worldbuilding is tediously obscure) or just begin stuck in an relationship out of necessity is interesting in itself), having all that ripe character ground to both explore Stolas/Octavia/The royal monarchy and the politics of the world, her begin this flattened not only feels wasted, but downright in the same tunnel as “Yaoi that demonize and flanderize it’s female cast to move the plot” vibes. Like, I think if done correctly, yes, villains can be flat: For supporting casts like Verosika. But with how the show persistently show the minimum attention and care for the MAIN female characters (Millie, Loona, Stella and now Octavia) and merely use them as literal props for the male characters narrative (Millie as the muscle for Moxxie, Loona as an analogue for Blitzo’s family issues, Octavia and Stella who thus far, have only been used to characterize Stolas), I got a… icky feel about it :xx

[@wiwitutsu2175]

I hate how stolas x blitzo became a plot tumor why does every ep has to surround around stolas??

[@everforward5561]

Where did that come from? I NEVER got the impression Stella was anything but a cold harpy.

[@queeniedramanicole9427]

@@wiwitutsu2175 It's not every episode?

[@newdawnhorizon9879]

Why does Paimon need a precautionary heir when he has so many children he can't remember their names?

[@DromusTH]

Yikes

[@kbmusickal3512]

Well😗..

[@Vanished584]

Only reason I can see is they need to be an Owl. Other than that, plot convenience

[@lauramaue]

So it's 2023 and I'm *just now* realizing Octavia killed the famous actor Blitzo was mistaken for. This whole time, I thought that was just a random background character, and that it was a plot hole that the episode never addressed where this actor was. Whoops. There's certainly a pattern with Season 2 episodes flashing crucial plot info on screen for half a second and expecting us to remember or even process it. From the lazily tacked-on wall of text in a message from Stolas to Blitzo regarding the aftermath of "Ozzies", to Blitzo holding a love letter that said "For Fizz's eyes only" in a flashback, to Blitzo's dad giving Fizz a birthday card that said "Wish you were my son" in the same flashback. I didn't catch the card thing on the first watch, so I had no idea why Blitzo was so upset. I seriously thought he just saw Fizz being happy on his birthday and left in a huff for no reason. Call me crazy, but maybe your audience shouldn't have to pause the video to absorb all your story's important plot points. Just a thought.

[@Toriyamaus]

I think I'm forever gonna stand by that Stolas' backstory was a bad idea from a story telling standpoint (and no amount of explanations in interviews or Livestream will make me take that back; it should be explained in the show, not a damn Livestream). Even though I came out of that episode liking Stolas more, it shouldn't have had to come at the cost of the story. And it's nice to see that some other people agree.

[@Toriyamaus]

Jesus Christ when am I gonna learn to spell check myself? I didn't even spell Stolas' name right smdh.

[@HelluvaOpp]

If Helluva Boss had a comic like TF2 had a comic, then I think we could make a different version of Season 2, scratch the Stolas’ backstory thing, and Stolas and Blitz being Childhood besties.

[@atlusfox1531]

I think the real issue with this episode is how in your face it is with things that were not the main focus in season one and done a lot more subtle. Stella already shown signs how she didn't care and how much Luna and Bitzo was starting to have friction. Really its more like they needed to lead up to this episode. Like a one or two plot lines to bring it together.

[@pockeentoslab2357]

i think the "turning her against stella" part might have been just stella seeing stolas ruining everything and playing the victim in her eyes not that she actually has a good relationship with octavia. I believe it may be possible that stella sees octavia as hers and as HER daughter, and octavia likes her dad more but stella is either blind to it or refuses to accept therefore "turning against her" and is blaming stolas.

[@spritemon98]

Yeah I absolutely agree

[@witherslayer-7315]

Still think it's weird how Octavia seems to be oblivious to how bad Stella actually is. I think at the very least, they have an okay relationship, as Octavia believe stolas and Stella actually loved each other, and doesn't understand why stolas even hates Stella so much in the first place, at least, that's what's been shown so far.

[@spritemon98]

@@witherslayer-7315 she is a sheltered child to some degree so that's 1 reason

[@sarafontanini7051]

@@witherslayer-7315 to be fair children can be blind to any issues in a relationship between their parents. Like, I didn't find out my mum was gay until I graduated highschool and she and my dad split up for god. They were more amicable than Stolas and Stella, mind you, but still. And that's not getting into how Stolas has stated he intnetionally tried to keep Octavia ignorant to give her a semblance of a normal family.

[@neku1080]

@Your_Mom498 Yeah he was wrong for that. But she also put him through a lot of emotional and verbal abuse for years. Not to mention the fact that neither of them ever ACTUALLY loved each other. She was just as wrong, if not worse imo

[@midekubrandio8592]

One thing I’d like to add about Stolas not remembering his spells. In the previous episode, he LITERALLY said “I have a great memory” or something along those lines, “consistency? I hard know her”

[@2l84me8]

It’s like retconning everything for the sake of Stolitz fanfic style of writing hurt the complexity of all the characters in the process.

[@Otaku155]

Vivzie has basically gone the Stanley Kubrick route when it comes to show writing; put in minimal effort in the beginning, engaging in as much willful obscurantism as possible, and then allow the fans to write the show for you. The problem is, that's really never a good idea; films and tv shows will always naturally have strengths and faults and may of course fail if poorly made or executed, however simply allowing fans to constantly dictate tweaks to the writing or development will inevitably result in failure of the work due to the problems this video is pointing out. The writing team is not on the same page because they aren't doing the writing; the fans are.

[@krabkrabby]

If they leaved the writing to me just for one episode, I'd rise the show with zero difficulties. Helluva boss isn't hard to write, it's just that the team isn't using their cellbrain and knowledge of good writing. It's not fans fault at all..

[@AlexMourning5635]

I love the little hair detail emoting with you, like when it turns into a question mark

[@theberns3655]

I could be wrong. But it sounds like the show is suffering from a RWBY problem. In that it has so MUCH potential being wasted due to writing inconsistencies and fanservice that only muck up the flow. Plus writing that basically destroys any character growth, depth, and makes them the way they are....just because. I mean, it's got to the point that I've seen fanfics more engaging and interesting (both for RWBY and Helluva Boss).

[@Zixjndjdudj]

Holy shit your right-

[@runawayfromtoads674]

I think this might be the case. Both RWBY and HB both don't also have a solid worldbuilding. That's why for me, it feels like they just pull any new idea out a hat and we could not question it because we don't understand the world. It sucks too because both shows don't need to cater to fanservice. They just need to build and develop their characters and have them interact and that's the best kind of service! The audience will eat it up! Show Millie as more than just Moxxie's killer wife? People would love M&M more! It also helps us see what else Moxxie loves about her Show Loona and Octavia bonding instead of their dads? The fans are going to be excited at the idea of them being stepsisters. (And literally don't make Stolas and Blitz as childhood friends. People were already curious to know how Blitz rizzed a centuries old Demon Prince and how both of them first met. Literally, if they play the fanservice card, they could have had them meet in a ball. I don't see how that was trumped over the bff route.)

[@RisingSignals]

"He's been Yassified! He's a Blorbo!" The sheer disdain in these words, it's so true XD

[@BloodyReiko89]

Now that I think about it its really a huge retcon with Stella and Stolas. Why would Stolas be happy claiming divorce in the circus episode and then try to apease Stella in Looloo land because I assume that circus is right before looloo land. Stolas behavior doesnt make any sense and it feel as if the writers are just doing whatever with out thinking on how it will impact the story. Im so confused

[@1221-g5f]

Oh yeah that was explained… in a stream by Viv once she realized that she made a plothole. Stolas apperantly had an energetic rush from the affair and felt powerful in the moment he rubbed it in Stella’s face, but he became horrified of the consequences that Stella could inflict, despite her significantly weaker staus than him in every way. Stolas has rarely shown any realm of fear towards Stella. He’s publicly rubbed the affair in Stella’s face, and made no attempt to even keep it quiet at the dinner table. That doesn’t scream mentally shackled abuse victim to me.

[@somefellow7440]

EXACTLY the "sometimes dads fuck up" when has blitz been anything but loving towards Luna?? what fuck-up is she talking about??

[@sofialozano4031]

Talk about a rushed episode: I literally only realized Brennan Ragers was killed by Octavia when she arrived after you pointed it out, and I had to rewatch the scene like 3 times to understand what killed him. I thought he was probably passed out or drunk on the street. On my first watch I couldn’t even tell what was going on in that scene other than her arriving in LA.

[@cakefrosting6451]

There’s also no spoken mention of the water in LA being toxic, it takes a rewatch and nitpicking the background to realise that the water was going to be a plot device in some poster people usually do not care about.

[@-valmetal-]

@@cakefrosting6451i can’t help but think of if a blind fan were to listen to the episodes i can’t imagine how confused they were when stolas threw the water bottle. how are they supposed to know the water was acidic when all the hints we get was something they’re not able to see? a simple line like “oh satan look at the conditions of the drinking water. this place is more like hell than we thought.” or something at least. hell, even i was confused as to why that happened and i’m not even blind. idk i may just be rambling but things like that can really make the episodes a bit more enjoyable

[@quwinzelca5498]

Never seen Helluva Boss but boy, that's sure one way to take your franchise and just light it on fire.

[@patientboat1979]

It’s pretty common for great things to be lit on fire for literally no reason

[@KittenLynxARI]

I am just happy that I was not losing my mind when I didn't quite like this episode, but couldn't point out why. This video helped me to see where the problems are. Unfortunately, the more I heard criticism, the more I can see that the story is taking L's. I hope it gets better again as new episodes pop up, but all we can now do is to wait an see.

[@Audrey378]

I hate how they made Stella terrible from start. Not only does it completely ruin her as a character, but it also feels like the writers are trying to justify Stolas' shitty behavior. They're basically saying that Stolas is completely innocent because Stella was a bitch from the start. Also, it feels like the writers have NO idea what to do with Stolas. He goes from seeing Blitz as an object/plaything to genuinely loving him since they were kids... It's not blended well at all and are completely different traits.

[@eatatjoes6751]

I'm gonna say it again, "The first season felt like Dorky Stolas stumbled into the relationship and they were building to him smooth talking his way out of it," and now he's just downright creepy and weird.

[@Jdudec367]

Now??? He was already creepy and weird...you seen episode 1? Or at least he's no more creepy and weird then before.

[@jpiny4854]

@@Jdudec367 i think he meant overly clingy and too fairy tale like with the whole "childhood friends" thing and the forgeting about everything that happened in the last two good episodes of the show and just go back to the status quo of their relationship.

[@Jdudec367]

@@jpiny4854 I mean....the last two good episodes of the show were in season 2 though and they haven't forgetten about anything that's happened and they haven't gone back to the status quo of their relationship.

[@jpiny4854]

@@Jdudec367 what happened to stolas realizing that the relationship with blitz was not working and wanting to put an ending to it in the ozzie ep they just gone back to be horny and comedic like the first few episodes and forgot about that plot

[@Jdudec367]

@@jpiny4854 They didn't forget about that plot, it's just that he still has some hope for it.

[@LauraM96829]

22:23 The writers really should have built on Stella’s apparent uselessness to the Goetia to make her more interesting. Imagine if instead of just “liking to torment Stoals,” her cruelty was born out of a resentment for the lot she was handed in life. How Stolas was allowed to have some power and influence, while her role was just to be his wife and have his kids. Make her someone who has great power and potential, but is not allowed to ever do anything with it, and so she takes her frustrations out on him. This would also make her anger and hiring of Striker easier to understand, as the Goetia could see Stolas’ cheating as a sign that she “failed her duties as his wife”. In order to save her standing in the family, maybe she tries to separate Octavia from her father, to make sure she grows into the proper heir the Goetia want without Stolas’ influence getting in the way.

[@Ollyiswild_04]

Honestly, having the pound be implied to “PUT DOWN” would fit the shows tone and be more fitting with the setting of hell.

[@jackdaw7823]

15:08 previously it was established that demons are not allowed in the human world but nobody had a problem with a prince’s daughter recklessly posting pictures from there in the hell’s most popular social media??

[@onestepatatimepb]

When they first introduced Stella and with the series showing it wants to tackle deeper topics; I had hoped they would use her to show the other side of a partnership when your significant other comes out. The Stolas and Blitzo relationship could come across as an allegory to in the closet folks now having more opportunity to be themselves and/or someone realizes later they might be a different orientation. What doesn't get explored is while we want people to be happy being true to themselves; there are ripple effects and new challenges that come with that. Imagine how much more interesting if Stella was a truly devoted partner and loved Stolas only to find out he didn't love her the same and caused the personality change. There would be the question of could the old her come back once the pain is addressed as a plot for later but as she is now she'll only ever return as funnily enough a cartoonishly bad noble caricature.

[@patrycjaradomska8232]

About Loona. I actually think they've tried to capture her nature the pound lady was talking to Blitz about during the adoption, the angery/violence issues - but honestly failed it miserably! I didn't like her from the start but now I just casually hate her character. And all her talking about Blitz being a """bad dad""" is what got me screaming at the screen on the first viewing. Like, when the fuck did he fail her??? Off screen? I tried to create some theories with my gf about this but we don't have a clue at all. The closest thing is maybe the fact that he even DARED to ask her to be better at her work. Which is making it even worse. Thank you for the vid Hezu. I didn't really agree with you on the previous one as I loved the Circus personally, but you captured all my issues with this episode perfectly.

[@realJoeMavro]

I know I'm probably just reaching and projecting here, but I used to have serious issues with low self-worth, anger, and self-loathing and it made me act out in ways that no child should ever act. Blitz being such a pushover may make him a failure in Loona's eyes, I used to think the same of my parents. My mom was too soft on me and an enabler and my dad just couldn't deal with me most of the time. When you know in your heart that you're a bad kid, but you don't think you can change and your parents don't know how to deal with you properly, it can *really* mess you up. What helped me change was meeting someone far less fortunate than myself. That person is my best friend and almost everything I do...I do for him. Now that Loona has Octavia for a friend, someone she can call an equal, it may be her first step toward redemption.

[@StarryInkArt]

@@realJoeMavro agreed.

[@0deadx21]

Loona is an *ADULT* and Blitz is an *EVEN OLDER ADULT* Their relations, whatever it is, is ridiculous. Blitz should totally replace her and give the job to someone who would actually do it to teach Loona a lesson about responsibility. Loona is fucking taking Blitz for granted and in such a disgusting way too. Any likability Loona might have had before S2E2 is now totally gone because of her behavior in this episode. I'm just begging for her to be put in a situation where she nearly dies and then comes off as a better person when she survives the ordeal.

[@hutki_shira]

​@@realJoeMavro realistic doesn't mean better loona kicking blitzo is like azula becoming mad it makes no sense why it would happen she hasn't acted like that before

[@hutki_shira]

​@@0deadx21 a little too harsh

[@Birdyboys]

Gonna repeat what I said here: Came here early to say: glad someone isn’t blindly praising this show and is willing to be critical of issues they dislike. I don’t know how long fans are going to keep defending this writing because it’s dropped off pretty badly. Edit: Lmao

[@enderwalkgang]

I won't defend it 100% but I will say I def don't agree with most of her points.

[@Birdyboys]

@@enderwalkgang that’s your opinion and that’s fine. Personally I agree with most of what she said

[@redpanda6497]

@@Birdyboys Yeah, same.

[@oliviamorales9406]

I will say even though the writing is really all over the place, I still enjoy just seeing these characters interact off each other that I still want to continue watching

[@emeraldanimetions8382]

The writing really sucks but the show is kinda funny even tho there trying to make the show dark.

[@poyloos4834]

One of my largest issues with the show currently is simply how they’ve changed its tone or “goal” as it is. I got into Helluva Boss on the premise of it being a lighthearted, episodic side project while we awaited hazbin, with a major focus on comedy and goofy characters with the advantage of a already set up universe with a fandom that wanted to see more of it. And we got that!… for about 4 to 5 episodes. Then they gave it a centralized plot, and turned all the characters besides M&M into broken sad boys/girls with “issues” for us to sympathize and relate to, and overall the show has turned into a half-baked lite Hazbin Hotel, and Hazbin isn’t even out yet! Okay, let me put it this way, to try and concisely show how the show has lost focus. I.M.P. has not gone up to Earth with the intention of killing someone for money since episode 4… yeah. They’ve gone to earth since then, but not for their job. That’s right, LESS THAN HALF OF THE SHOW IS ACTUALLY ABOUT WHAT THE PREMISE OF THE SHOW WAS SUPPOSEDLY ABOUT!

[@oliviamorales9406]

Yeah on the one hand, I don't fully mind the turn this series has taken, but I would've preferred if Helluva was a mostly episodic series, especially since i liked the idea of these demons interacting and messing with humans. If it was going to have an overarching plot I would've like if every now and then we see Striker and Stella plotting to kill Stolas, meanwhile Blitzo and Stolas try to sort out their relationship. I guess kinda similar to Moral Orel where it was fairly episodic and comedic but there were certain episodes and scenes that were steadily building up to a much darker or intense episode and gave some character development

[@scratchyass2369]

Its nice to see I'm not the only one whose noticed Stolas getting the Baby Face treatment, excellent work.

[@hypnoDraw]

If im being hoest, I ABSOLUTELY hate the trope of a couple meeting when they were kids, I was hoping blitz and stolas met as adults and not childhood friends- it messed up the story tbh- I believed stella didn't hate stolas and wasn't tormenting him ever since she met him in season 1- It's obvious they changed stella's character in season 2 as for more conflict and climax for striker and such- Im glad we got to meet Paimon (My fav character) But I hate the trope of a couple meeting before as kids :/

[@hypnoDraw]

As well as episode 2 didn't make sense- I'm glad we got more of octavia and loona as well as loona's backstory but blitz and stolas completely ignored what happened in episode 7 of season 1 after ozzy's which disappointed me from there

[@runawayfromtoads674]

I don't mind the 'we met as kids' trope. But it definitely didn't fit Stolas and Blitzo. Like come on, the last thing I thought of Stolas was that he was 30. Also it felt interesting to see a messy relationship that people are sure would fail. Since literally, right now, it's only the book that is keeping them close-knit. Them adding the 'we met as kids' bit felt like they're trying to tell the fans 'oh but they're meant to be together so don't worry!' Instead of allowing us to feel as unsure as the characters are and being incapable to predict what happens next.

[@RokkTheRock]

i hope the hell pound with the hellhounds does put down hounds who arent adopted by adulthood. it would add some intensity for whats supposed to be hell and show how little the citizens of hell care about the hounds, the lowest caste

[@moistwrmonastring1017]

The way I read Stella and Stolas’s relationship BEFORE season 2 episode 1 was that they _thought_ they were in love despite the marriage being arranged, and maybe after they had Octavia at some point, or maybe immediately after they first slept together, Stolas realised “oh… this isn’t right,” but continued on being a good husband and father despite no longer feeling (what he thought was?) attraction to Stella. But now… now it’s all ruined! I don’t understand!!! Why can’t we all just ignore that awful episode forever

[@moonlit7273]

im just confused about where season 1 finale went 😭 thats when the story got so damn messy

[@renny489]

Idk about anyone else but them being childhood friends RUINED the story for me, it made no sense at all them being childhood friend made no sense when you see how they interacted with one another.

[@Pancakes840]

It would be better if they just didn't meet as kids

[@ronaldmacjokerfeliz2669]

But Vivziepop needed to please herself and please the shippers so that's what she did

[@renny489]

@@ronaldmacjokerfeliz2669 Letting your fans control a show just to please them makes horrible writing just look at riverdale.

[@ronaldmacjokerfeliz2669]

​@@renny489That's why and a few other things my hype for hazbin hotel died, there's a chance it's really good, but I've already assured you that at least I won't be disappointed

[@williamongjiajiang1734]

I liked the ideas they had in season 2, just not with Stolas/Stella's relationship. Even implying them falling in then out of love would have made for better story telling (but would probably take up too much screen time)

[@JustaRocknRollCLown0]

Can't believe i wasn't the only one who saw the a dynamic change in their characters. And the fact that season 2 feels all over the place imo

[@Bubucart]

I just wanna say as a gay guy, that the whole thing with the show wanting blitz and stolas being endgame always felt like yaoi. Like it was made to pander to girls who see men as little coke bottles of sexual needs and horny stuff. Which just never sat right with me, it feels like the worst relationship being romanticized, and the fans and team only love and excuse it because the two are uwu gay boys. Like people complain about how gay mens representation is so bad a stereotypical, but then turn around put the same exact stereotypes on a pedestal. Honestly i am not rooting for blitz and stolas. It sucks because i wanna like the two characters, but GOD its so hard when the show writers are practically trying to force you to baby them both.

[@slaybutton1692]

tbh it's astonishing how this episode fits better in between "harvest moon festival" and "Truth Seekers" than where it aired in s2- It's legitimately insane

[@surraciddac170]

You do bring up a good point with Stella, which could’ve brought a really interesting character idea. If the writers were aware that Stella doesn’t really have as much importance as Stolas, they could’ve made her rage and bitter attitude because of that insecurity. Like possibly out of jealousy or not getting the expectations she wanted in her adulthood. But sadly, that’s just a headcanon now. 😔

[@denysvision]

nah, it would make things boring, stella was always a bitch so idk why people still complain about her

[@steppedmarlin8709]

Can we have a moment of silence for Cool Vallain Stella and Well Written Stolitz..... 😔 RIP

[@leavemealone802]

Stolitzz deserved better

[@steppedmarlin8709]

@@leavemealone802 agreed

[@StarryInkArt]

Yep 😔

[@starlight-j956]

As much as I love Hellava boss, you were able to comprehend what felt off in this show during season 2. I knew something was off in the writing, but never knew there were that many contradictions in the characters, their dynamics, and how the episodes is structured. I sure do hope the writers make up their minds about these flaws since I'm worried it would be all over the place if this continues. Like, It would be ashame if the animation was the only thing that keeps the show together while the writing in the episodes and characters isn't up to par.

[@AreesDaOG]

Season 1 was so much better, I would have maybe liked blitz and stolas knowing eachother as children if the two actually bonded and blitz didnt just manipulate stolas. Maybe blitz could have stole like one or two things and when his dad asked for more blitz put his foot down? Or blitz could have told his dad he's not stealing from one of the only people who were nice to him. It also would have been nice if blitz and stolas had been in contact a couple of times since they were kids, maybe it would establish a somewhat solid connection. Like letters or calls. Stolas having a more focused personality would have been pretty cool too. I think maybe he should have had his fatherly side shown more. I also think maybe him being more friendly and optimistic would work if we had a reason like him not wanting to end up like his dad. Maybe showing his personality traits of his caring side could have worked. It would have been nice to see some of the time he tried to put into preventing the marriage from falling apart to keep Octavia happy. I cant say much about stella besides shes always been this way and could use a personality. Lol.

[@Nightman221k]

The one dimensional flat characterization and forced author bias feels like a fanfiction from 2010. Like, showing us that Blitz and Stolas have very bad traits but then in the next episode just glossing over them or casting blame elsewhere... it's that inconsistency that makes it seem like it's just whatever is convenient for the relationship so it LOOKS alluring/sexy rather than having any depth to it. It's the same with Loona's behavior being really unpleasant/violent but excused because she's had a hard time, or how Stolas is now being made to be blameless in his marriage/family falling apart. It's very cringey and not very well-written because it gives me flashbacks to the fanfiction that I saw back when I was a teenager. I'm not really inclined to excuse the characters very much anymore, there's too much wasted time that has them acting that way just for the sake of it looking edgy.

[@snowflakeowl1762]

It feels like yaoi fanfiction from 2005 😅

[@leavemealone802]

@@snowflakeowl1762 holy shit you are so right! Stolitz is literally a class D Yaoi fanfic now lol

[@Jdudec367]

The characterization isn't flat or one dimensional though and there isn't a forced author bias and it doesn't feel like a fanfic from 2010 tbh. It doesn't gloss over them though or cast blame elsewhere. Not really as there isn't any inconsistency and it does have depth to it rather then just what's convenient. Loona's actions aren't seen as justified...but it makes sense at least. He isn't made to be entirely blameless though...he still cheated which didn't help. It honestly isn't cringey and is well-written. It isn't for the sake of them looking edgy though.

[@Nightman221k]

@@leavemealone802 Right? I had a friend in high school who wrote yaoi fanfics and would always make there be a malevolent female obstacle. Like for example, she wrote Naruto fanfic. Naruto and Sasuke were always having a secret affair and Sakura was depicted like a sneering, selfish, screaming b!tch and of course also she's made to be homophobic and vile to a cartoonish degree. The fact that she was written without nuance at all is excused cause "she's just the worst" ... yeah that's the Stolas/Blitz/Stella relationship in a nutshell. The fact that Ztolitz has an angst-ridden relationship with toxic patterns that just get handwaved is another bad fanfic trope. It's like the toxic dynamic/manipulation is edgy fetish-fuel since it makes the "wrongness" more appealing rather than something to address as a deadend/deal-breaker.

[@unknownbystander8145]

@@Jdudec367 I don't know about you, but to me it's clear that Stolas' backstory pretty much absolves him of any fault regarding his issues. I mean if you think about it, every single one of Stolas' problems is in fact someone else's fault. The cheating? That was Blitz's fault for taking advantage of Stolas. His bad relationship with his wife? That was his father's fault for forcing him into an arranged marriage, and Stella's fault for being bad to him right from the start. Him choosing to continue his relationship with Blitz? That was Stella's fault for bullying/disrespecting him throughout their marriage. With that said, the only issue that Stolas is still held accountable for is his strained relationship with his daughter, and even then one could say that Octavia shares some of the blame due to not realizing that Stolas and Stella were never happy together. So yes Stolas' backstory does in fact retcon his previous relationship dynamic from "everyone being at fault" to "being everyone but Stolas' fault".

[@leavemealone802]

And the plot holes just keep on showing! Again is so nice to see people actually treating Anything Vivzpop makes As actual pieces of midia and not the second coming of Christ. God, I so hope Hazbin Hotel isn’t filled with plot holes Season 2 just started terribly my God! Seeing so much bad writing is both funny and depressing, because nothing will be changed. Vivz can give us shit and people will still love it. Sad, but that is showbiz Edit: okay, wow. This whole blitz and stolas relationship- this whole flirting is becoming depressing. I can't pin point what is wrong, but this whole romance between them is lacking somewhere. They flirting and making each other hot and bother is just pathetic at this point. Maybe because is not correctly framed, ot the timing is off... but something is making their romance look bad. And now I am pissed, because those two deserves better!

[@briasinterlude1755]

Keyword: chemistry

[@leavemealone802]

@@briasinterlude1755 oooh that is savage, I love it

[@wiwitutsu2175]

I hate how this ship started as a sub plot and begin to grown and overshadown the main point of the series is literally in the name "immediate murder professionals" but they dont even murder humans anymore

[@coffeeservice2850]

A bit shady area, but I think such critics are so rare to see cause Vivzie deals with them bad, and the fandom which seems full of diehard teens even badder. From top of my head, I can remember some small drama that Viv got involved in calling an redesign of Angel “as disrespect to his character” (Which triggered the fanbase to dogpile on the artist, whose work wasn’t even offensive or pessimistic: It was a very neutral analysis) and overall acts really passive aggressive against criticism. This with her begin an current industry star and the fandom begin full of very aggressive folks makes up a very hard space to critically discuss the show :TT

[@leavemealone802]

@@wiwitutsu2175 good point. I am all forward for more mlm couples in midia, but it is annoying how badly developed most of them are. And when they become the whole focus of the show or the fandom, it gets hard to, not only see the flaws, but also question why people just accept this. It can be really annoying to watch a show when you know the creators and the fandom, only care for one thing only, and see everything else be put aside. It is a huge problem to change the show genre so abruptly like vivz did, and again, Stolas and Blitz deserve better, because there is a lot of potential for them

[@Dronkey64]

I think there needs to be more writers and revisionists before just posting in this show. Viv is a great illustrator but... Stories are all over the place.

[@nightielightie9414]

Super long post incoming: Personally, I think it was a way to make Stolas look better with the abusive aspect. There was very little in the series to show that she was ACTUALLY abusive, because she's never really shown on screen like EVER. Especially when Stolas never mentions the abuse to anyone I feel like he would of brought it up to Blitzo or Octavia/ just give a couple lines on talking about it or making him uncomfortable/ hurt about it. Hell Octavia just states they fight alot not that she's seen that their was abuse (physical or anything along that nature.) which I feel like she'd mention that, but instead states that it was STOLAS that ruined home not STELLA.. As a viewer they could see as a justified reason for her lashing out on Stolas. (The well she said imp argument so it shows she didn't care he cheated on her it was who it was, isn't really subtle to show that she's an elitist/ didn't care, everyone in hell that is of different classes call them imps (Stolas CONSTANTLY calls them all imps) so it sounds more like its just accepted to call imps imps so it feels like she just didn't know Blitzo's name and just knew it was an imp) Them being cold in bed shows that it was an arranged marriage and that she might not have been happy to be with him either, giving a subtle character nuance of them just going through the motion, but it doesn't mean that she doesn't care as they have a child and a life together. Her trying to kill him is very extreme, however the tones for the show being everywhere makes it feel like this is actually a normal thing in hell to do they even play it off as a joke and not being serious. (LOL she did it right in front of him and he doesn't care. XDDD.) Which is a huge problem of feeling for certain characters (ie: Angeldust getting raped and assaulted a serious issue, simular to Moxie getting raped by the succubus gang, and Blitzo threatening to either kill and or rape Moxie and his wife.. But, (Angledust) has been seen almost sexually assaulting Husk (almost kissing the guy when he was clearly uncomfortable.) and actively acting like a sexpest. You could argue that abuse can leave to hypersexuality, but there's nothing to show that it's the case (flashbacks in the pilot, or him reacting to certain people touching him just something to show its the result of abuse. Not until the music video/ Comics it's shown, but this came out AFTER the pilot. It's just shown to be more of his character/ has been since his inception. Alot of the characters are shown to be just as bad as the other "villians", but are "sympathetic" but because there's no real consistant writing for the characters you really don't know what the series is trying to address or who you should root for other than because they're the protag.) You could argue that her throwing an imp is abusive, her yelling at him (is always shown to be somewhat justified in the beginning.) But, you never actually get to see her as a character or to see an abusive aspect in the first season (not counting the Season 2 ep 1 cus it has LOTS of issues imo.) I would even argue there's a side to Stolas being abusive in some aspects as he's shown to also hurt other imps, such as when he was yelling at his wife it shows he's actively strangling an imp, being abusive to Blitzo by sexually harassing him at work, demeaning/ belitting Blitzo and not listening to him/ respecting him, and when their relationship was originally shown to be nothing but toxic and to get stuff from one another. (Now retroactively written, but still doesn't justify him acting this way to someone he's suppose to "love" because he does know how to with his daughter.) Oh yeah, and the dude basically owns what he deems as lower class people IMPS that he's shown never to respect them as even people. Why should I feel bad for someone who has been shown that they are also partake in this behavior (if not worse)? The hit scene didn't really have much of an impact with the "reveal" of her actually hurting him not just emotionally, because we as an audience didn't really see anything to really show really abusive behavior from her (without reason or motive of why she's doing it) as she's NEVER really shown. An example of showing an antagonistic persona would be Katie Killjoy and the gas mask dude, she originally stated she hates gay people and even without close doors she hates the gas mask dude (I assume he might be gay/ bi or something.), belitting him on the TV from the first time she shows subtley throughout the interview, slowly building up to her despising him then eventually the build up climaxes to where she's actually lashing out on him and pouring coffee and insulting him on air. That for how short it is was better built up than, Helluva Boss which has more episodes and more developed characters. TLDR: I think alot of the problem of the series is that the writing is incredibly inconsistent on not only the plot ,but the characters, it lacks showing and not telling and when it's finally shown there's no focus on it and it's in-between other junk so it's not focused on by the audience to keep in in their mind, meaning there really wasn't any build up leaving an undeserved climax. You can say it's all because of it being a Comedy so it's fine to not have consistency, but that doesn't justify the inconsistencies in characters and the messages being shown, many comedic shows keep somewhat of a consistency. HB doesn't, it's constant tone shifts make it difficult to process. And please don't add the it's hell arguement it's really old and doesn't really add to the convo.

[@crazycatzg3481]

I remember one of the stream of her and the Helluva cast reacting to Helluva Boss. In the stream, she mentioned she originally wanted to add the sun in the Wrath ring until her animation coworker reminded her that there is no sun in Hell. I can’t exactly remember the title but it’s the streams of her and the cast reacting to Season 1.

[@nightielightie9414]

@@crazycatzg3481 Yes, it's kind of odd that a detail like that wouldn't be already established as the point of Hell is that it's away from God's light (the sun) as Viv boasts her knowledge on Demonology/ Christian religion. I'm someone who knows a good amount of demons/ mythology, and I can tell you there's very little actual lore used in the show other than names, buzzwords the characters use and some mythical relics. It's more of a pick and choose salad of what they want than expanding the world of H.H and H.B with already established folklore.

[@crazycatzg3481]

@@nightielightie9414 yeah, I feel like Viv is just doing what she likes without caring about consistency. I guess she’s starting to like Stolas and Blitzo so much that she doesn’t want to make them look bad, which she ironically did write them using each other for pleasures at the beginning of the story

[@crazycatzg3481]

@@nightielightie9414 and did she actually boast? Where did u find that info?

[@nightielightie9414]

@@crazycatzg3481 I believe it was in qn older stream of hers she mentioned she knew alot and thus it inspired lots of the lore and world building

[@ronaldmacjokerfeliz2669]

Aged like wine too

[@thatoneocmaker]

Honestly, season 2 has been really weak for me, and episode 2's pacing was really throwing me off. But the thing that really annoyed me the most was that Octavia never got to see the Tears of Azathoth that she has been wanting to see for years now. I think this is how the episode should have gone: Octavia overhears the arguement Stella and Stolas have in Episode 1. During the next few weeks while the divorce is going on, she realizes that the date for the Tears is almost here, but her dad is too distracted with the divorce thay he doesn't remember it (similar to the actual episode). Because of the realization of why her parents got together, and how her father forgot a promise, she runs away to I.M.P headquarters and steals the grimoire. The whole Blitzo and Luna arguement happens (just them yelling at each other, because I found it odd that Luna was punching him), but this time Luna snuck away with Octavia without her or Blitzo knowing. Luna and Octavia both still land in Hollywood by accident, but Luna decides to help Octavia try to find where the Tears would be since they both don't know the location where it'd be visible. (Sure they could use their phones, but let's say they both left their phones behind because they don't want to talk to their dads.) Hijinks insue as Octavia and Luna continue on with the day, and they both get closer as a result. Meanwhile, Blitzo and Stolas are both freaking out, and they both decide to go to Earth together to try to find their daughters. (M&M don't tag along, you decide why) But during the whole time, it's *AWKWARD* because of the events that happened during Ozzie's. Back to Luna and Octavia, the sun has almost set and Octavia starts crying because of everything. She tells Luna what happened and what she overheard about her parents marriage. Luna opens up to Octavia, and we see from her point of view her life during her time in the pound. Cutting back to Blitzo and Stolas, they push back the awkwardness (for now), and eventually find their daughters. Stolas apologizes to Octavia, and remembers his promise. Blitzo and Luna come to an agreement that there are some things Luna can improve on, but they'll take it one step at a time. Blitzo hugs Luna, and while she looks annoyed, she doesn't push him away. Stolas opens up a portal to a place where they can all see the Tears of Azathoth. Cue the episode ending as they all just watch stars together.

[@rocket6108]

I dont want to sound weird but I think that Vivziepop just didnt want to portray a homosexual relationship with a bad light, in the pilot I just felt like it was Stolas the abuser who had Blitzo grabbed by the balls, and also it really felt like Blitzo didn´t like it, but then he is just like "meh" about it and then they go on full on "romance"

[@runawayfromtoads674]

The lack of continuity of the Stolitz conflict this episode was stupid. They never followed through Stolas' 'epiphany' of his transactional relationship with Blitzo. I assumed Stolas would be trying to be neutral with Blitzo throughout the episode - only to bring up the crystals at the end to sever ties. It would be so much more jarring to have this happen with Octavia and Loona being the primary focus in the episode.

[@estydiaz3751]

THANK YOU- Like, I am glad I wasn't the only one who looked at this so damn confused as to why so much was going on and why was nothing addressed or taken care of in their way-

[@lepreking]

I love the concept of Octavia and Loona as sisters that support each other. They have good chemistry and are a good way to bring out the best in each character. Everything else in season 2 has been at fanfiction levels of writing. These two could be great if the plot was better directed, or even actually episodic as the pilot implied

[@felixhunter589]

Other points that weren’t brought up that I thought wasn’t good writing either was: 1: The water scene, where the water burns the guy just made no sense when first watching. Obviously if you go back and read one of the posters on the walls it explains that the water is 98% Acid. But if you didn’t read that, then the scene of the guy burning just comes out of know where? Especially after watching Stolus casually drink a whole bottle. I honestly thought he was a demon in disguise that got doused in Holy water or something. 2: The Question on whether Imps can have human disguises or not is still unanswered and even MORE confusing. In Spring broken Loona revealed that she had a human disguise and confronted the gang about why THEY didn’t. But They brushed it off by explaining their plan B. So originally it was implied that the Imps weren’t able to get a human disguise since… why wouldn’t they use it in that episode if they had one? But now, in the latest episode where Blizo asked Stolus if he could get a disguise, he says no due to not having the grimorie, because he can’t remember the spell (even tho he literally transforms in front of them). Basically saying that if he DID have the book, then yes, Blizo could get a disguise. Which just brings up the question about why Blizo and the gang haven’t been using these disguise after all when they had the book? And If imps really can’t have a human Disguise than stolus should’ve just confirmed it by saying “The human disguise dosnt work for imps” but since he didn’t it’s just confusing on why they never used it in the first place or if they’ll ever use it in the future 3: Loona. You pretty much explained the same issues I had too with loona, but to add to that, with the scene where Loona is talking to Octavia there’s a moment that I found very odd. When loona is looking at her lighter that reminders her about Blizs, it gives her the expression that she acknowledges that he really does cares for her. But I find it odd that she would be thinking about that NOW when the last impactful thing he said to her was that he was going to replace her???? I thought that comment would’ve had future consequences with it caught Loona off guard, but I guess not

[@weirddd469]

Luna is incredibly hard to like as a character

[@basedleafeon3221]

I feel like HB has an identity crisis in which it can't decide whether it wants to be an episodic comedy show with some focus and depth to its characters, a plot driven show that wants to have a deeper story between the suddenly made up connections between characters despite never being hinted that those even exist, or a high-school romance drama that is wants to tease the audience whether Stolas and Blitz get togheter or not. The lack of focus and direction is becoming more and more prevalent overtime and it's also getting rather annoying how blatant the fanservice has become with how they just wanna desperately shove drama regarding the characters down people's throats in an attempt to hook you into the show. Another thing that bothers me is how this is supposed to happen within the same universe as the upcoming Hazbin Hotel, yet I feel like no matter how high the stakes become in HB (such as an association that manages to prove the existance of demons and hell) they will at best get a glorified cameo in it.

[@oliviaoborne576]

Whats annoying is how after this episode people ship loona and Octavia and it makes me sick. I saw it as a sisterly bond and that loona is like 21 and via is only 17

[@dplonker6140]

25:40 The pacing issues here I feel were ESPECIALLY bad in Unhappy Campers. They need to stop trying to cram in everything at once.

[@samflood5631]

0:17-Nice chart on how retcons completely ruined the characters. Also, poor Octavia. 2:17-Proof that Helluva Boss had become another Angsty UWU Yaoi Fanfic.

[@Omentallic]

Glad you brought up how the events of season 1's finale seemingly get ignored. With how it was handled in this episode it undermines all prior tension built up between Blitz and Stolas. It bothered me that there wasn't even a passing glance to imply reluctance or hesitation after everything that happened between them - They just immediately began flirting and bantering together again. If it was intended to be the two purposely avoiding the topic of their last encounter together for the sake of focusing on the mission or falling back into their "comfortable lie" (as Stolas put it), it was very poorly communicated to the audience. I've heard some of this episode was intended to have taken place before the finale's events but got pushed back, however if that's the case it should have either been re-written with those events in mind or just scrapped so the ideas could be reworked to fit the narrative. As it stands, this episode dismissed any potential conflict previously established. I'm really hoping this doesn't set a precedent for the future of Helluva Boss that established drama and character writing can be ignored in favour of having the initial premises and jokes that the writers want to include. In any case, good work on the video and looking forward to more.

[@Saltedroastedcaramel]

"...This episode was intended to have taken place before the season finale but was pushed back..." 🤔 🤔 🤔 If that's true then that sorta makes sense, but at the same time why was pushed back? No offense to spindle horse, but Helluva is a cartoon on the web not a cartoon on cable network or a streaming platform where the episodes are out of order. I'm not going to pretend that creating and running a cartoon - two cartoons - is easy while dealing with anti fans who love to bring up your past as a guilt card to end your career. At the same time, there should be some critical thinking into story order especially if it involves having your part 2/special in copyright jail

[@hydrashade1851]

To me it feels like all of the episodes are equally canon, just arent in chronological order. this is really some shit writing.

[@peachy_peach5684]

I'm not sure how every plot point sank with only two episodes. At this point, the series is like a Stolas x Blitzo fan service. Season one was literally the best thing ever.

[@songbird6414]

This show is so weird. It’s arguably the most mid thing I’ve ever jumped into willingly because I enjoy animation and creativity. It’s not bad at all and is quite creative, but the fandom surrounding it acts like it’s the holy grail of shows. I had a friend freak out over Moxxie’s small bit of foreshadowing as a throwaway line in episode one, and all I could think was “yep, that’s pretty basic storytelling.” Not only does the fandom not accept criticism of the show, but any little thing that it does slightly right is viewed as the greatest thing to ever exist. It’s really weird.

[@NoirRaven]

I think the problem is that show was initially designed to be an episodic dark comedy but then the fandom gave Vivzie ideas and so she made it into a dramedy instead. The problem is that we didn't get (what I assume would be) the bridging episode that was the season one finale to help us transition back to dark comedy because.... I don't know, honestly. My guess is Vivzie wanted to placate tot he fans instead of telling the initial story she set up. She's not very consistent herself, in fact, a lot of these niggling details can be seen in season one, as well, just not as blatantly as they are in S2.

[@rise.-mikey]

No, by the looks of it. She had two ideas but didn't know which the fans preferred. So she wrote the story ambigious and once everyone was voicing that they would love more of a complex story they did it. It was not unplanned. Quiet frankly, I like this direction better because I personally am not a fan of a Family Guy show kind of thing.

[@DevinDoingstuff]

@@rise.-mikey the trouble is that no matter how you spin it, some people are going to be annoyed, disappointed and have heavy criticism of the story. So to be blunt... If that was her plan all along then that was one of the dumbest ideas I've seen in a long time.

[@rise.-mikey]

@@DevinDoingstuff I know, people are entilted to have a opinion. I just don't understand people who see this direction of the show and continue watch it. I mean, if you look at Murder Family episode. It's a little bit obvious what they wanted to do. People of course jump to conclusion that this is a dark comedy show but if you look at Moxxie. He was cleary not at fault in this episode and did something a person would do if they have some sorts of problems. He even apologized in the end when it was Blitz's fault for not telling Moxxie the context of why they needed to kill the mother specifically. At this point it was difficult to decide what direction this show should be heading to, do people really like this dark comedy aspect more or do they want something else out of it? The Cherub episode was one last time to see what the audience wants and many voiced their reasoning, why they don't like it. Personally, i'm happy with the direction the show is heading because many people who can relate to the characters feel seen and understood. It was done pretty smart because the characters are still not out of character but sadly not many people see that. Reason for that? they still believe the pilot episode is canon to the show, when it's not.

[@enderwalkgang]

@@rise.-mikey I'm pretty sure we were told it was gonna be an episodic show prior to everything

[@NoirRaven]

@@rise.-mikey it wasn't like family guy, imo? More akin to Ren & Stimpy meets South Park. The problem is that this entirely messes up the lore and characters. No one is acting in character, Stolas went from legit demon to anime husbando and Luna is overly aggressive to Blitz. The timeline being set to human standards isn't helping either. The show might as well be on earth and with humans as the cast if she's going to do this sort of thing.

[@avivastudios2311]

I can't wait for that season 2 review. There's going to be 12 episodes this season, I believe so near the end of the year, the season will be done.

[@spritemon98]

15:22 have you seen how big the mansion is that they live in? I'd assume she's really good at walking long distances since its massively big

[@karentookthekids1267]

I have a feeling that due to the long wait per episode, the team wanted to give the fanbase what they want in order to stay relevant. For example, people wanted more Blitzo x Stolas, so the writers maybe tried shifting the story and rushed everything so that they could give the fans just that. But as a result, we also get a clunky, plot holed and inconsistent storyline. This is just a theory tho

[@hikikomāori]

I’m gonna be honest. I never liked Loona. Don’t get me wrong, I really like her design but that’s about it honestly. Octavia has always been my fav from Helluva Boss. 🖤

[@0deadx21]

Even if people don't like Loona they could still tolerate her enough. However, this episode left an awful taste in people's mouths. Who's fucking idea was it for Loona to act like this *AT ALL* ? It's not even consistent with how she acts in Season 1. It's like she's been rebooted into an unlikable, self-centered prick. Season 2 what the fuck are you doing to the characters?

[@Zixjndjdudj]

I feel the same as you. I hate how disrespectful and mean she is its like I get it she has anger problems but why the hell does she have to be so mean to the same person that treated her as his own kid? I have anger problems myself but i wouldn't dare try being mean to someone that adopted me

[@hooparainbowbraceypkmonand7862]

Sooo my problem with stella isnt that shes a narcassist since birth thats fine, my problem is she is inconsistent. She doesnt even fake her emotions she actively tells people how terrible her relationship is and most narcissist characters normally fake something good so they can get praise but stella doesnt do that? She instead of lets say trying to play herself as the villian lets everyone know her relationship is shit and one sided with her always bad mouthing stolas which in theory would destroy BOTH of their reputations which contradicts how most narcissists fake doing good things to keep up their reputation. She can be a narsassist from birth but she needs to BE A NARCISSIST. A great example of a narcissistic relationshop is eric and heidi from southpark. Eric for all we've known has always been a narcissistic asshole but when both characters are found at their most vulnerable they find love. At first it starts out as real but we soon see eric slowly starts to take advantage of heidi. Slowly but surely turning her into something that reflects himself and something even eric fears. Eric has been an asshole since episode one and theres still an arguement that he was born that way. Eric also remains consistent he doesnt really contradict himself he puts up a front so he can do what he wants later, stella is a narsassist who seems not to even care about her reputation which contradicts ya know being a narcassist.

[@genesisalcantara2743]

The series really shows how little it doesn't know how to write female characters every time, the problem with Stella is not that she's bad, but that she's not a character at all, she's just an accessory and a tool for the story, not a character with goals, interest or passions. Stella's only personality is simply to be evil and nothing more, and she even is not good being evil at all .she's flat, annoying, irritating and forgettable at worst. and it bothers a lot that people justify that by saying things like "she's a bad person, she shouldn't be nice" The same can be applied to all the characters, why should we sympathize with the imps? I mean, there are serial killers in reality who are literally the worst and monsters, why don't people say nothing about that? and with stolas it is worse, what we understand about stolas in the first episodes is that he uses his power and influence to use and subdue someone of low status like the imps, in exchange for sexual favors which is a very common abuse technique in work, and again no one complained about it at all even when it's something that happens in real life .