HIBERNATION - WHAT, HOW AND WHY

[@belogic5347]

I just cant stop looking at the leaf cutters in the background :D

[@AntHolleufer]

😆🤩🙌🏻

[@underdogjourney]

Two questions: 1) What should you do if your colony lives in a large terrarium? 2) What if you keep a colony that lives in both warm and cooler regions. (For instance, camponotus pennsylvanicus live in the northern US where they would naturally hibernate, as well as in southern states where it never gets cold enough to need to go dormant for any period of time.)

[@AntHolleufer]

1. You can use a basement or addic. But at some point it may be to hard then well then you say it’s to big and you’ve hibernate then the other years. Even a room in your house without heat is better then just normal room temp. It may be 17-18 and well still better to be nothing. 2. I’d say research is key here. Talk to other people read that people say online and go with that ☺️

[@kujofn.8220]

Put a small amount of ice cubes in there.

[@emilyk5718]

You earned this click on the subscribe with this video. It cleared up so much for me. I just kept reading in forums that skipping hibernation leads to less production, but no one ever says why. It's like it's just some mysterious thing that "just happens". But you explained the process and reasoning so well. So many things finally clicked for me after watching this. You've convinced me to hibernate my first colony ever (camponotus penn)

[@AntHolleufer]

Oh wow that’s amazing to hear! I tried making it easy to understand. Glad you liked it! 🙌🏻😄

[@thomasraney9848]

I hibernated my ants this year and it's the first year I got into the hobby. I think they where too cold last year though i had them in the garage before hibernation and it stays pretty cool in there. When I started heating them to bring them out of it they exploded with lots of eggs and their first worker. I have three species. A lasius, a tetramorium, and a pogonomyrmex species. When I posted about it online I was told that that pogos dont need to be put into diapause but I live in northern colorado and it gets very cold here in the winter and thought that it was best to mimic their natural cycles. Is it normal for species in colder climates to not produce brood their first season after mateing or was it probably the temperatures they where kept at last summer and fall?

[@AntHolleufer]

That’s good to hear! It’s not normal but sometimes a queen can be a bad queen. Have they workers or is it a single queen? Also I definitely think you made the correct decision!

[@thomasraney9848]

@@AntHolleufer most of the lasius and tetramorium have lots of brood and a few workers. The pogonomyrmex just have eggs and a few large pupa. But I think I'll have the first workers soon. If I catch more this year I'll I'm going to try something other than testrubes because they are semi colostral and don't grip the glass well.

[@LENA-pl8pu]

Awesome video man. Had everything I need to know

[@AntHolleufer]

Glad you liked it!

[@tobiasrietveld3819]

Ok, some comments here: - the ants don't dogpile to retain heat (which is completely pointless due to their low mass), but to reduce moisture loss for the queen and the larvae on the bottom. Dehydration is the biggest risk during hibernation, especially in fridges as these dry out the air (something that can be alleviated a bit by putting an open container with water inside as well). Test tubes are king for this period and be very careful with artificial setups as virtually none of these have sufficient water reservoir to last the entire duration. - it's very important to understand the difference in hibernation triggers between different species. Where Formica, some Camponotus and older Lasius colonies will go full-stop, often triggered by slight drops in room temp end of summer or fluctuating food supply, others like Myrmica and Tetramorium only care about temperature droppping below the point where brood won't develop anymore. - the MOST important thing every antkeeping needs to be aware of with hibernation is the risk of large airpockets in the water reservoir and thoroughly molded water stoppers when warming up test tubes after hibernation. Inside the fridge the air pressure will be at an equilibrium, but at it warms up and expands, it can push the water through the cotton and drown a test tube colony still groggy after their hibernation. This is why you ALWAYS hibernate in fresh tubes and slowly warm them up. Or don't give the air time to warm up and immediately shake the entire colony into a fresh tube while the ants are still in torpor. - the thing about queens needing the diapause to rejuvenate is one of those typical antkeeping 'internet facts' that is just based on conjecture as this might makes sense when you look at how much eggs they lay afterwards. But if you look a bit more about how insect metabolism practically halts during diapause it becomes considerably less plausible that it has any effect on their post-diapause fecundity. The high post-diapause boost is simply the result of their biological clock telling the queen that the time for peak production of brood has arrived (to be timed it with upcoming food abundance and their nuptial flight window). - as nobody hibernates their ants to the max of their capability (some can hibernate at freezing temperature), requiring the ants to build up glycol, there is no need to really slow down the temperature drop. There are only two factors to keep in mind: Drop at around 17-ish degrees roomtemperature at around september to make sure they halt egg and pupae production (if necessary). And when putting them into the fridge, give the workers like enough time to retrieve all foragers and stragglers (depending on the setup) and ball up inside the nest before dropping below 5-6 degrees Celsius.

[@BasicAnts]

Hello Stroomschok, I know you are very knowledgeable but sometimes you assert things without evidence. How do you know that ants don't dogpile for heat? Dogpiling for heat is observed behaviour in other social insects in fact Japanese honey bees use this technique to kill Asian hornets. You say it would have no effect but the adult ants and larvae are all covered in hairs, the dogpile will trap a ball of warmer air, the mass of the ant is irrelevant here its the volume of air they trap that is. You also have this obsession with fridges drying out but it's not the case, my formicarium last twice as long in the fridge as they did in the summer, nests that used to need watering every 3 days in August now last a week. I understand that for you with 100s of colonies you want to find a way to get through hibernation with minimal maintenance but for us 'normal' keepers it's really not a problem to water once a week. In fact in my experience the big humidity killer is just after hibernation, March/April time, nothing sucks the humidity out your nests like central heating in a house, this is a far worse time than hibernation.

[@AntHolleufer]

Wow amazing comment! It’s always nice with some feed back! 🤔 I will keep this in mind and hoping other people will read this🤔

[@tobiasrietveld3819]

​@@BasicAnts The heat is simple physics. A tablespoon of ants simply lacks the mass and insulation required to retain any significant heat over the course of several months. They could be coated in aerogel and it still wouldn't be enough as they lose their heat through radiation. Infact if they are in a simple test tube they will have lost 99% of their heat within an hour in the fridge, go check with an IR thermometer if you don't believe me. Very few ants have sufficient hairs for any meaningful insulation as they have little use for it (they aren't bees that need to run flight muscles even when it's cold and insulate to retain the heat generated by their flight muscles itself). Ant hairs instead are mostly for tactile feedback and as a layer of protection from wear&tear. As far as I know only a select few nocturnal desert species use insulating hairs and it's not for hibernation purposes. Your example with the bees simply doesn't apply here as this has nothing to do with hibernation. Bees have very different hairs, have flightmuscles that generate a lot of heat and this is a very short duration, not months of torpor underground. As for the humidity. If you keep them in a normal fridge this isn't a big issue as these tend to get opened a lot, maintaining air humidity. But if you use a dedicated fridge this is a different matter. Low air humidity is why expensive fridges have special 'vegetable' drawers and winecoolers have special trays to keep water for extra evaporation. You could call it my obsession, but I've spoken with too many antkeepers that have lost colonies, especially by overestimating the water retention of artificial nests during hibernation in a fridge. In fact even I have made this mistake in the past. With your comparison with the months afterwards you're missing one very important detail: the ants are AWAKE, and as such can go outside and forage for moisture. Something hibernating ants can do somewhat, but nowhere near efficiently enough to save most of them from dehydation (if their hibernation setup even has an external water source).

[@BasicAnts]

@@tobiasrietveld3819 'Thermoregulation..various species rely on combinations of five procedures: .. (5) regulation of metabolic heat, which can be used to raise the temperature locally by clustering or to lower it by dispersion.' Hölldobler B & Willson E.O., The ants, The Belknap Press of Harvard University Press, Cambridge, Massachusetts, p.370

[@Nugget_2367]

Great video like always bro!

[@AntHolleufer]

Thank you! 😄🙌🏻🙌🏻

[@jeromedavis4527]

Very clear video about hibernation I took my young colony out of hibernation for a short period of time and it didn’t effect them and there growth

[@AntHolleufer]

How long did you take them out?🤔

[@jeromedavis4527]

A few weeks I took them out of hibernation the queen still ate protein got really fat had no problems since the queen didn’t lay eggs even when I took her out and the queen laid tones of eggs in the spring she’s really big now

[@jeromedavis4527]

But I only did it for a few hours

[@NellyPearly]

I have 4 seasons here, I'm new to ant keeping and I'm afraid of not doing hibernation correctly and seeing all my ants die. I can place them in a cool place during winter without any problem, but Im not sure I understand if I need to feed them or not. I provide water and sugar during the winter, is that right? Or is it only water? If I need to give them sugar during winter, how often do I give them sugar?

[@duhduhduhduhDavid]

god dang that queen in the back really is huge, nice video btw!

[@AntHolleufer]

Haha yeah she’s a big girl 😅

[@BasicAnts]

I made a comment but it didn't post, probably because I put a link in it. Thanks for the shout out. You need to know whether a species is exogenous-heterodynamic or endogenous-heterodynamic, since my channel is only about Lasius I didn't go into the differences but as others have said exogenous-heterodynamic species can be fooled by keeping it warm but with endogenous-heterodynamic annual cycles (i.e. Lasius) the diapause arises due to internal factors (endogenous timer) and no external conditions can prevent it.

[@AntHolleufer]

Wow some fancy words 😅 can’t lie didn’t understand it 😅😅

[@tobiasrietveld3819]

External conditions can't prevent it, but they definitely can slow it down. In my experience, a Lasius colony of 2 of three years old that skips their hibernation while temp and food supply remains stable will only get into stagnation problems somewhere in the early summer of the next year. Also Lasius niger colonies that are just founded can skip their first hibernation without getting into too much trouble in the following year (though the post-hibernation fecundity boost will outpace non-hibernated colony growth).

[@EyeDeal_666]

Hi, thx for another great vid! I have a mini fridge, but it hums/vibrates - not much, but it does. Should I try to get a near silent one? If so, recommendations would be most welcome!

[@CoffeeCrewGamers]

If it vibrates it may not be level (the floor may not be level if the unit is level) try sticking cardboard under the corners to make it level if it does not have adjustable feet!

[@EyeDeal_666]

@@CoffeeCrewGamers it's on a floating shelf, no contact with floor. It's the vibration of removing the cover that stresses them, but thx anyway 👍

[@CoffeeCrewGamers]

@@EyeDeal_666 oh I thought the fridge was vibrating lol I have moved many a fridge in my day and levelling them fixes many vibrations the fridge and it’s motor can make… but sounds like u have a diff issue

[@CoffeeCrewGamers]

So if I live in an area where the temperature ranges from 40C to -50c, my home in summer is 18-25c and in winter the furnace is set to 15-18 (we like sleeping at a cooler temp than during the day) do I need a fridge or can I put the ants in the storage room in the basement that is only heated indirectly (it is a fully furnished basement that looks like main floor with carpet and walls made from drywall my office is down there and there are heat vents in the basement so it’s the same temperature as upstairs maybe 1 ie 2 degrees lower. The storage room may be 5 degrees lower. Is that enough of a drop to hibernate them? (I’m researching the hobby and have no colony’s yet I want to make sure I can correctly care for them before I get them)

[@arisfalcon7326]

Hey, where could I hibernate a large colony at home? I hibernate my smaller colonys in the fridge at 5 degrees celcius, but don’t know where to hibernate a lager colony (messor barbarus, around 200-250 workers)

[@AntHolleufer]

Well when they get to big for a fridge the options are limited. If you have a colder addict or basement they would be perfect. I don’t recommend having them outside but if you have a sheet outside it could also be good ☺️

[@arisfalcon7326]

@@AntHolleufer thanks!

[@Jellyf0x]

This is the video I've been looking for, thank you.👍 I have one more question, I have a few Niger queens that have not produced nanitics yet. They have larva, will they also be okay to hibernate and should I feed these queens beforehand? Thanks😊

[@AntHolleufer]

Yes they still need to hibernate. What I do is I feed them some sugar and protein before hibernation. And the. Feed them once a month. Probably not necessary but it can’t harm them if it’s only 3-4 times in total

[@tobiasrietveld3819]

@@AntHolleufer First year L.niger colonies can do fine without their first hibernation if necessary (I've done this plenty of times).

[@zegames1545]

Great video, i just have a question, In hybernation if i put a drop o honey in my outworld they will leave the formicarium drink and go inside again? Or i need to put the drop of honey inside the formicarium where the ants all are?

[@AntHolleufer]

Well they don’t need to be fed anything but I give them a little bit in the outworld 😄

[@zegames1545]

@@AntHolleufer Thankssss

[@Passarium-1195]

Someone pls help me. My house can’t get cold enough to hibernate my ants and now it’s almost spring in the US. How do I get them out of their current state so they can start to grow again. Pls help me !

[@Antsant]

The only ants at least as far as I know only formicinae have the biological clock. I've had myrmica, tetramorium, aphaenogaster, pheidole, ponera ect keep going all winter long.

[@AntHolleufer]

Hmm weird. I have never heard this before 🤔

[@antsnetherlands20]

The species you mentioned run on clues from the environment, in the case of winter stagnation they only hibernate if the right conditions are met: temperature decrease is the most important factor. However, it doesn't mean that keeping them warm during the whole of winter will not have effects on their growth the years afterwards. Because for many species that hibernate in the wild it does have an effect. Edit: this applies to just species that live in regions where the winters are significantly colder than summer.

[@AntHolleufer]

Thank you for clarifying! 🙌🏻

[@Antsant]

@@antsnetherlands20 idk I've had many people keep such ants like pheidole bicarinata which come from places in the US that get snow and not hibernate them. These people who do this have had the colonies live full lifespans (3 years). Saying that not hibernating your ants ends up with a smaller lifespans seems more like a theory then a actual fact. Here in the US we constantly keep ants out of hibernation if they aren't showing signs of wanting to go into hibernation. This is especially the fact with aphaenogaster who will actively resist hibernation and keep foraging for protein even when in hibernation conditions

[@antsnetherlands20]

@@Antsant "will resist hibernation" well that's new, are you sure you've prepared them for hibernation the right way? Also, I only said that not hibernating your ants 'might' have side effects for 'many' species that do hibernate in the wild. Not all species of those actually hibernate, some species only take a shorter diapause being still active during winter but with prolonged larval development. E.g. south European species from warm winter regions. I can't speak much for American species.

[@downsouthantkeeper3802]

What about areas where we have brief winters or mild such as south Texas. Should we shorten it or even do it?

[@AntHolleufer]

Well I’d say research the species online and see what it says. If it says do it I’d do it but else I wouldn’t ☺️

[@venomradar]

Is it fine to feed ants even while theyre hybernating

[@AntHolleufer]

Yeah I also do this ☺️

[@tobiasrietveld3819]

They won't eat unles the temperature isn't very low. So the offered food will most likely spoil and possibly cause problems.

[@Antramblings]

Great video as always . It was basic ants video that convinced me not to do ants hoods experiment 😆 I have 11 lasius n in hibernation .

[@AntHolleufer]

Glad you made that call. But I will be interesting to see his experiment to see the real difference 🤔

[@carystage]

where do you get those outworlds, that are behind you?

[@AntHolleufer]

They are prototype pods from wakooshi 😄 not out yet

[@retroesports_]

Been a bit inactive lately. How is the C. Ligniperda project going>

[@AntHolleufer]

Not to much news yet. Still only first gen workers with no problems ☺️

[@kbants4063]

👌

[@AntHolleufer]

🙌🏻

[@sabakoer2295]

but camponotus cinctellus doesn't hibrenate am i right?

[@AntHolleufer]

Uhhh not sure. I’d go and Google it! Find a care guide!

[@venomradar]

I started to hybernate my ants however they still seem to be very active

[@AntHolleufer]

Yeah they move around. But they probably don’t take that much food

[@antsandpets]

👍

[@AntHolleufer]

😄

[@thegamingant6100]

Last year I didn't hibinate one of my founding lasius Niger colonies and let's just say they aren't with us anymore because a few months after hibination should have ended they just all died

[@AntHolleufer]

Yeah… sorry to hear that. They just don’t work without their hibernation 😕

[@reubenwest8364]

Esthetic ants dont know who you are lol its me who mentioned you in the stream 😂

[@AntHolleufer]

Esthetic ants? Don’t know him?🤔 🤔

[@reubenwest8364]

@@AntHolleufer lol 😂

[@leopoldholmlund394]

first

[@denhambad]

First!

[@britishbreakdown2525]

FIRST