Hidden Information | Monthly Debrief S4E1 | January 2024 | The Players' Aid

[@rykard72]

Maybe call the shelf of shame - The Dust Off. definition: to prepare something for use, especially after it has not been used for a long time. It’s was also a name used during Vietnam for med evac by helicopter

[@Ziplomatic007]

I really enjoy your content. You guys are the best wargaming duo on KZbin. My only criticism is that I would like more shots of the game and components when you are discussing them. I know it's a huge pain from an editing standpoint, but I get quite lost when you review a game and discuss particular mechanics without seeing them displayed. Other than that, I am a huge fan!

[@de4dlyjackal697]

"Shelf of Shame" should be called "Proving my Wife Wrong Games", lol.

[@carterjburke3345]

“The Players Purge” … cos the way Grant declares a purge is awesome.

[@raygun6271]

Another great video as always! Regarding Prime Minister, I wouldn't play ANY of the Scenarios until I've mastered the standard game. The Scenarios are for people looking for something different from the standard game. The backstabbing and tension can be very entertaining. There is no guarantee as to who the winner will be.

[@TheAush22]

“Battle of the Backlog”

[@thegeneralsretreat1645]

Last Blitzkrieg is great for Bulge games because it has some nice scenarios that give you different perspective, even if you never play the full battle. And the system is cool!

[@coyi51]

Shelf of Shame Sortie? Always enjoy debrief, many games I have to play, even more I would like. D-Day games are fun, apart from Iwo Jima which was a nightmare. Love the hidden items in any solo game, nothing quite like a surprise. Great fun as usual. Many thanks

[@The_Real_Danger_Mouse]

Remember: War of the Ring has a unique hidden movement system with an allocation system for trying to spy out the fellowship.

[@flaviusbelisarius3240]

The hidden information in WotR is focused on the cards, the unknown exact location of the Fellowship isn't as important as you get benefits from having Nazgul searching their last known location.

[@KevinA2112]

Please guys don’t stop the unboxing videos. I understand your point but I love them along with all your other videos have peaked my interest in so many games to that I had not heard of. Between you two guys and @zillablitz I have bought so many games 😊.

[@laurenwoode1046]

I agree with Kevin. The unboxing videos show board game quality, helps viewers decide if have games on a similar topic to decide if they want another (knowing the MSRP), helps with getting things back in the box if it’s a huge game, etc. Great work on the channel!

[@KevinFeatherly]

The main omission is something I thought you guys teased but didn't quite get around to discussing, which is hidden orders. Dean Essig's CWBS series and his NBS, and probably others (Line of Battle?) are the classic example. The hidden information there, the written orders, is not only hidden from the opponent, but in a way the controlling player. The other guy doesn't know what your orders are, naturally, only that you will have to follow whatever plan you have hashed out. The controlling player doesn't know whether his orders will arrive timely, whether they will be screwed up or lost in the transmission, or whether they will be acted on. As simulation of pre-broadcast era wargaming, its very cool and very challenging.

[@ThePlayersAid]

lol, it was very late and we were tired, I'm not sure how we missed that, I even had things like War Room next to me.. I have no idea how we missed that lol..

[@nogardtla]

I remember Byzantium (Martin Wallace) - it looked like it would be fun, it read like it should be fun, but it just wasn't (which feels about right since it just more or less disappeared into the background of the Wallace legacy).

[@de4dlyjackal697]

Another great video Waldorf and Statler!

[@grantkleinhenz6789]

Who is Waldorf and who is Statler amongst us 2?

[@de4dlyjackal697]

@@grantkleinhenz6789 doesn’t matter, I’d watch them review games for 4 seasons too! Lol

[@The_Real_Danger_Mouse]

15:20 In PM, the opposition party has three choices: strengthen the party base, sabotage each bill to force out the PM (when close or behind on points), or force the passage of mutually beneficial bills (if ahead in points). When you have enough points to win, grab the PM position. Within all of this, the dealmaking between players is the heart of the game.

[@rykard72]

Don’t know if have already but you should check out Sea Wolves Solitaire - Battle of the Atlantic 1939-1942 by Turgalium games

[@jameshenderson4876]

As I said on the blog, I was so delighted to see Ace of Aces resurrected, and Powerhouse as well. Just such a fun "pick it up and play for half an hour" game. Quick and fun. And to my mind, very immersive. Looking forward to it, and thanks very much for the heads up!!!!

[@octavian9162]

I played the standard game of Prime Minister and it came in at under 3 hours so I don't think it's much longer than the tournament. To me a lot of the enjoyment of the game comes from the roleplaying aspect. Not just proposing bills but also arguing for them or against them. I get that not everyone will enjoy the theme in that way. The game is all about timing-when to call elections and when to delay them, when to stab your partner in the back, when to really contest the government and when to go along, etc. I loved the game.

[@ExtraSqueaky]

At 1:25:52 some counters of 1950 dropped to floor .. hope you found them later on! Shame on you for not bagging/storing the counters properly!

[@doeleen]

Thanks as always gentleman. Grant, I do listen to KZbin via Apple car play in my car. 😁

[@paulbaker5756]

Suggesting ‘Overdue dust offs’ as the title. Not quite alliteration, but I think it is accurate and snappy! Thanks for being the great enthusiasts that you are and for all that you bring us!

[@crokinoledk]

Thank you Gentlemen for the video. It was really a good list of awesome games, you presented. I’m totally with Grant on “Halls of Hegra”. One little remark: 36:16 speaking about “Downfall” concept referring to taking two roles, although it’s unusual, it’s not unique. Chad Jensen and John Butterfield didn’t come up with that idea first. The same concept was implemented into the “Race to Berlin 1945” by Krzysztof Dytczak From 2015 published by Leonard Games. Player directing the Red Army - commands German troops on the Western Front and player, who controls the Western Allies - commands German troops on the Eastern Front. As for games with hidden information, which are not about hidden movement, I love: - “Strike of the Eagle” - I know I’ve keeping on badgering you to try it, but it’s not only about block system’s fog of war, it’s also about unique system of giving and resolving orders. - “The Fog of War” (not “Fog of War”) - “Battle for Rokugan” As for hidden movement games, my favorite are: - “Sniper Elite” - „Specter Ops” - „Narcos” Still waiting for your Top 10 of 2023. Take care.

[@ThePlayersAid]

Top 10 will be end of Feb, early March, there’s still a couple of 2023’s we wanna give a chance.

[@crokinoledk]

@@ThePlayersAid OK, I can imagine it was an opulent year 😊.

[@Dangerous27Dave]

Great chat guys. Games that have systems that model orders going wrong are so much better and more interesting than having perfect info. The Snafu rule in BCS, for example. Anyway my entry to the shelf of opportunity question is - The Unplayed, Played.

[@jameshenderson4876]

Glad to see Atlantic Chase still there ;) AKA Schrödinger's Battleship

[@PrimarchX]

I had the warehouse tour at Noble Knight a couple of months ago. Be prepared to drag your jaw for a few miles! :)

[@Anconia07]

I've been on the P500 reprint list for FofD for like 2 years, thanks for urging people to get on it!

[@ThePlayersAid]

You’ll love it! Worth the wait.

[@epone3488]

Some ideas for the play our great games we haven't got to yet; "Shame Slay"? "Past Glory"? "Counter March"? "Unknown Hero(es)"? Play-Unknown-Regarded-Games(of )Excellence; so Grant can get his PURGE in lol.

[@robertmoffitt1336]

In regards to why do we need more Bulge games games. At one point because money was super super tight for me, I wanted to pick out the best game on a particular topic. When I had a little more money to spend, I would get a couple games on a particular topic, and I discovered that the games were vastly different. This is something, that I think is very important when it comes to the question of why do we need more Bulge games. All of these games are completely different from each other, although they may share a common subject or topic. Game designers, to me, are just like book authors. Each game designer brings another point of view to whatever the common topic may be. Whether that be the Battle of the Bulge, the Battle of Midway, or the Battle of Stalingrad. I have several games on the Battle of the Bulge, and they are all vastly different from one another. It's just like reading books. If you read one book on the Battle of the Bulge, you have gained one perspective on the Battle of the Bulge. When you read another book on the Battle of the Bulge by a different author, you get a second perspective on the battle. When you continue to read books on the battle, you realize that each perspective is unique and different, and brings a better overall understanding of the event to the reader. It's the same with war games. Just my two cents! Lol! 🙂

[@BrianMarcus-nz7cs]

Well said Bro , well said, , ✍️👍😎😅

[@justinscreed]

One thing I've found with Prime Minister is that you need to focus on what you can accomplish in the whole 3 bill round instead of immediately. If something is going to pass no matter what you do, you're best to let it happen and focus on either winning the election or railroading the party-specific bills.

[@strelnikoff1632]

Tanto Monta....be afraid, be very afraid....I like it. More chrome than VQ which it was a lot itself.

[@ThePlayersAid]

Woof.. that's a lot of chrome.

[@MyOwnWorstEnemy]

Vive L'Empereur! is not just solitaire, it can also be played with two players. 😎

[@charleslatora5750]

David, El Magnifico!!!!!!

[@mevl4822]

Great video as always.

[@brucewachtler9093]

How about Shelf of Shame Surge? Implies a serious effort to clear the shelf!

[@rbaynosa]

i just got my copy of prime minister so havent played it yet. but from what ive read and seen in yt, it is a very interesting game of semi coopetition. its a new, nuanced system, so it may seem strange, or not click, at first. give it another go, playing the base game with 4 players which, they say, is how it plays best.

[@jamenta2]

8 years! I had hair too. What the heck happened?

[@StevenPaulDesign]

I love the unboxing videos when it's a game I thinking of getting or that I might be interested in. I am definitely part of the problem regarding bulge games, I buy many of them....

[@henriwhitehead]

Great video! I hope you get to play Downfall. It's great.

[@WARdROBEPlaysWWII]

8:05 I don’t have anywhere close the number of viewers that you do and I hear the same thing about unboxings. There are too many, they’re dumb, etc etc. but like you, they’re some of my most popular vids.

[@ThePlayersAid]

I’ve never bought a game from an unboxing, but have decided to *not* purchase one because of an unboxing. I find that valuable, too.

[@jwspiker]

the dune game from cmon looks cool

[@haroldbuchanan690]

Great stuff

[@billsimoni]

The Prime Minister tournament scenario seems to me to truly be for experts. It's too short to give much more than one chance for each player to win. I pity the opposition backbencher trying to pull the strings to make a win possible.

[@hun644new]

How about "Shelf of Shame Showcase"?

[@tims8326]

This was very interesting. I'd like it if you did a follow up - games with no/little hidden information that you can play solo by having a break, then sitting at the other side of the table.. I am a solo gamer, but dislike solo games - duh. I like big map, lots of pieces, unsubtle games.

[@BillsHistoricSites-ip3su]

Very nice

[@barngames1785]

I heard you were going to play Baptism By Fire this month. If you'd like, I have a strategy cheat sheet on the game. Just a few hints on how to play. This BCS game is generally not well liked because I think most people don't know how to best play the game. Hence, the Axis side cakewalks. If you'd like the two page hint document, let me know what email to send it to.

[@ThePlayersAid]

Absolutely. Hit me up at theplayersaid at gee mail dot com

[@larrymcintire6466]

So, who won the Give Away and what was the winning Weapon??

[@OdiousMage]

Purgepalooza??

[@charleslatora5750]

Dummy counters

[@NealWirth]

Would your father in law be able/willing to share (sell) the plans to the gaming table he built for you guys?

[@dr3putt62]

Me too!😊

[@earlofdoncaster5018]

Prime Minister may be better with two players or solo.

[@ThePlayersAid]

I could see that, for sure.

[@dr3putt62]

How about … The Shelf of Missing Wars ?

[@patrick82o]

Did you play any expansions with Dune or just the base game?

[@ThePlayersAid]

We played with the spacing guild expansion, which there’s no reason not to.

[@patrick82o]

Good to know, thanks! Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on a 4 player game.

[@BrianMarcus-nz7cs]

Oh so U are not in a hurry to unbox / review the Longest Day then , ha ha 🌿👍😎

[@michaelvitale6959]

Do you guys have day jobs? Just wondering how you find the time to play so much AND make these videos!!

[@ThePlayersAid]

We do, but we also dedicate a lot of our free time to wargaming!

[@strelnikoff1632]

I thought you were gonna play Dien Binh Phu? You missing something you'll like

[@ThePlayersAid]

I can't remember if that made the list, but there's always 2025! we think this'll be something that we stick with!

[@strelnikoff1632]

@@ThePlayersAid your loss!😎enjoyed the show

[@ThePlayersAid]

January - Ardennes ‘44 from GMT Games February - Baptism by Fire from Multi-Man Publishing March - Dien Bien Phu from Legion Wargames April - A Victory Lost from Multi-Man Publishing May - Brazen Chariots from Multi-Man Publishing June - Day of Days from Multi-Man Publishing July - Normandy ‘44 from GMT Games August - Almost a Miracle! from Against the Odds Magazine September - War and Peace from One Small Step October - The Fall of the Third Reich from Compass games November - Crusade & Revolution from Compass Games December - A Time for Trumpets from GMT Games

[@jamenta2]

You both now have all this acquired experience after 8 years of reviewing and playing games - extensively. Why not have fun and design your own game? Could be an additional source of income ...

[@markh63]

I’d rather see a (or actually after action report ) Playthru then unboxing. No offense .there a dime a dozen for KZbin Wargame channels.