HILDEBRANDT & FRANKE-Psychologist Dr John answers your questions; plus TEA

Subscribe to ‪@HiddenTrueCrime‬ for coverage on the Ruby Franke/Jodi Hildebrandt case. DREAM Night Drink: Subscribe and save:tinyurl.com/3u... Use Code HIDDENTRUECRIME for 35% off of the original price plus free frother! [[Only hemp-free Dream flavors are eligible for international shipping.]]
Dr John Matthias, forensic psychologist will answer your questions in comments on our weekly live show into what lies HIDDEN . Watch our interview with Jodi Hildebrandt Victim HERE: • VICTIM OF JODI HILDENB...
Thank you for subscribing to our KZbin channel ‪@HiddenTrueCrime‬ . it's the greatest support you could give. - Lauren and John
MORMON STORIES VIDEO WE USED TONIGHT. PLEASE VISIT THEIR CHANNEL:
Mormon Stories: • Jessi Hildebrandt Spea...
CORRECTION: The original content of this video states that Ruby and Jodi were arrested in Springville, Utah, while additional information that continues to come out shows they were likely arrested in southern Utah, near Ivins. TBD.
DR. JOHN MATTHIAS is a licensed clinical and forensic psychologist with 30 years’ experience in both clinical and forensic work. He serves as an expert witness for the federal government and has consulted on numerous high-profile cases for District Attorney’s offices and defense attorneys in several states.
In the forensic area, Dr. Matthias has developed expertise in personality assessments, hidden behavioral motivations, complex trauma and criminal psychology. In the clinical realm, he has worked with numerous victims. He received his Master’s degree in Marriage, Family and Child counseling, as well his doctorate degree, from the University of Southern California.
Dr. Matthias graduated with honors in philosophy from Princeton University, and he won the prestigious McCosh Thesis prize while there. In high school he graduated valedictorian from a large public high school in Chicago where he was chosen to participate in a ground-breaking valedictory study that continues to this day.
Dr. Matthias has been an adjunct assistant professor in the University of Nevada Las Vegas clinical psychology doctoral program since 2007. He supervises UNLV doctoral students on forensic assessments, clinical case formulation, and various therapeutic approaches to clinical work.
LAUREN MATTHIAS has worked as an anchor and reporter for ABC, NBC, and FOX News in East Idaho, Boise, Idaho and Salt Lake City, Utah. She spent a decade reporting on a diverse range of topics from high profile crimes to Presidential visits. Most recently, she reported for Salt Lake City’s ABC affiliate News4Utah. In 2015 she received the Idaho State Broadcaster’s Association Best Reporter award. She left the reporting world to produce the Hidden True Crime Podcast along with her husband Dr. John Matthias, a forensic psychologist.
Your support helps us produce these podcasts/videos. We have some big plans to explore the true crime terrain in a way that no one else has attempted.
HIDDEN: A TRUE CRIME PODCAST is: CRIMINAL PSYCHOLOGY REINVENTED. Join us on a journey into the darkest recesses of the human mind and the unconscious motivations that drive human behaviors in order to understand the world and ourselves.
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[@HiddenTrueCrime]

Thank you for joining Patreon and our book club and for your support: www.patreon.com/hiddentruecrime

[@stacymartire]

I wish u wouldve honed it on the fact that she self confesses at least some type of diagnosis by saying "these labels they gave me" wouldnt help or meant to "keep her sick.

[@RuffLifeGoldens]

I joined Patreon 🙌🏼🫶🏼

[@crystaldawn9255]

Man oh man I hope you guys do an episode covering that new letter Kori Richans tried to write to her mother and they found it in her cell holy moly

[@ShelleyJackson-n7o]

How likely it that Jody and Ruby’s relationship developed into.a sexual one?

[@jaala1759]

@@stacymartirea

[@llamamama2910]

No child abuser should get bail

[@islesofshoals3551]

Agreed but courts love their money grabs

[@purpleslurple5149]

Agreed! Can you imagine how terrifying it must be for their victims to have them out and potentially nearby? 😩

[@shirleybleazard8049]

Are they out?

[@jivajenmoreno-adams9984]

As a 57 y/o strong willed lesbian, I’m so glad as a young woman, I left the Mormon church and stood up to my parents homophobia. My wife and I have been together 32 years. We have grandchildren and have lived a full meaningful life. Jodie could’ve had this. IMHO, religion (when it’s institutionalized) is the greatest misery to humankind.

[@kathrynbaker7529]

Good for you! Congratulations on 32 years together!!! ❤️

[@MistaCatsby]

I'm relieved to see others calling out institutionalized religions. Religions or beliefs where a person is personally engaged in a private relationship with their diety and beliefs, I can respect that. However, going and sitting in a building and having someone else tell them what to think and believe is not religion. Christians have no excuse, Jesus tells them that they do not need a temple to be close to God, yet they go church and have someone else tell them the contents of a book they could go read themselves! It just becomes about obedience to an institution and not about personal enrichment, and it makes systematic abuse so easy. Cruel religious beliefs like homophobia have so deeply hurt so many people. I hope stories like this get people thinking.

[@mrwilliamwonder]

I'm seeing a Mormon version of Archie Bunker in my mind when you mention your childhood. How about that idea for a show?

[@charliebarrow7086]

As a straight woman who grew up in a strikt and unforgiving religion (not Christian) I am so happy for you and your spouse. In spite of what I was told growing up about various things/perceived sins, I fully believe in God's love for all of us. As long as we try not to deliberately harm others, regardless of our social status, color of skin, sexual orientation, etc. we are safe. You are lucky to have found long lasting love and fulfillment with your wife.❤

[@effie3798]

Agreed!

[@kamibeckmann196]

Here's the little elephant in the room: Jody's OWN kids and why did ex husband get full custody and divorce her faster than you can say Hildebrand ?🤔

[@Ozmaeoz]

I think it took him 10yrs. Cuz’ children are just pawns to people like Jodi but…yeah… :/

[@bobbicatt]

Here’s what my opinion is, that Jody was in the closet most of her life. She really hates men and it shows in her “ practice “ she always punished the men and then befriended the woman she successfully separated from the husband I’m willing to bet my paycheck 100% she’s in a relationship with Jody. Man, I’m still reeling that little RF’s injuries were to the bone. Hope she rots in prison. They better not get bailed out. This country will freak out. But to your statement…I want that info as well , She did not get custody? Has to be a good reason. I guess a lot more info will be coming out.

[@lesleyhughes3174]

People who think they are together are everywhere out here,!!

[@bobbicatt]

@@lesleyhughes3174 I made my comment within the first 5 minutes of this video since I was so upset about the wound being to the bone…but yeah, they were reading the comments from others saying they think the same thing !you know the saying …if it looks like a duck…quacks like a duck..it’s a 🦆 duck ! I’m still not even half way through .

[@CoffeeOwlll]

Wouldn’t surprise me if Hiram Smith had already been dead when this review was done on his behalf

[@Catfluff521]

I don’t care what power Ruby had; these kids could easily have died from infection or obviously starvation/dehydration. I hope these two serve years; they should be charged with attempted murder.

[@godzillamanstreb524]

Definitely….that was the end goal

[@missiris1234]

Totally agree.

[@karenburns9]

No kidding, what if that house caught on fire while they were alone and tied up !

[@lilliehott4439]

100%. They easily could have died. Death or at the very least long term damage from dehydration can happen very quickly!

[@dmcgowan6350]

Agree.I can't wait to hear a doctor's testimony stating how close to death RF was.

[@sallyshafer436]

Joby might argue that the tape wouldn’t have cut to the bone if he hadn’t struggled to break free. These people need to never see the light of day again.

[@janeen70]

Dr. John and Lauren have uncovered a lot more relevant information on this case that I haven't heard elsewhere. They have the tea and spill it!

[@niccolea2086]

Well it’s definitely far more then you’ll ever hear on MSM. MSM has failed the American ppl.

[@mtaylor7307]

I also like that HTC are familiar with the areas due to work and residency because sometimes we see areas demonized when something happens that has nothing to do with the neighborhood. Their good town name goes down in infamy, unfairly. This couple is a reminder to maintain perspective and not sensationalize these sensitive topics, even when uncovering the hidden aspects.

[@danielhollingworth1090]

They let the wicked walk right into the trap, they give away all the good things that fall in their lap.

[@Azsg724]

Well this is true they are very good at covering the facts and being very respectful doing so. But please don’t say anything about this case is tea! These children are human beings and have went through hell and that’s so wrong! This not for anyone’s entertainment!

[@janeen70]

@@Azsg724 Hi, Shannon. I can totally see where my comment might have come across as insensitive and flippant. One of the many things that I love about HTC is the genuine concern and compassion for victims and the empathetic and intelligent people in this community. Sometimes these situations get so heavy, that a little humor or light hearted moment gets inserted. The "spill the tea" was banter during the live. It wasn't regarding the kids or the horrific things that happened to them, but I get your point. I think the vast majority of us are here to process trauma and/or try to gain a better understanding of human behavior. We are all heartbroken and outraged about the treatment of these children and other victims in this who have been abused and manipulated. I do want to thank you for sharing your feelings. I appreciate and value your perspective.

[@flowerjpotter1629]

Remember the boy when he escaped didn't ask the neighbour to phone his dad to come and help him. I think that's very telling about how much he trusted his dad when he needed someone to protect him and his sister who was still trapped at Jodi's house.

[@BG-ig6fd]

Excellent point! Yes, a child would normally want to reach out to their other parent, if one was abusing them. They would want to make that contact before anyone else. Very telling.

[@philosopherwithin]

As a childhood abuse survivor (nothing like this brave boy) I would *definitely* have asked for the police. I suspected my mom knew…

[@9eyeswideopen]

Kevin’s lawyer said that he never ‘physically abused’ the children there are more ways to abuse a child, then physical. Verbal, emotional and psychological abuse can sometimes be more damaging because it can be hidden in plain sight as there are no bruises to see.

[@loralieisa]

He knew his son slept on a BEAN BAG for 7 months. He was in on the abuse.

[@mrslaceknitter]

It's interesting the lawyer was so specific about Kevin not physically abusing the children. Obviously he knows there's a difference, and he knows he can't say Kevin didn't abuse the children. The evidence of the emotional and psychological abuse has been in the public view for years, provided by Kevin and Ruby themselves. This kind of abuse is harder to prove, and harder to convict, and far more damaging to the children. As bad as RF's injuries were, he was convinced he deserved that mistreatment. His body will heal, but he may never recover from the belief he is a bad person who deserves to be abused. I hope he receives the best treatment, and is able to overcome this

[@DeeKay-66]

I thought the same thing when I heard Kevin’s lawyer say he never physically abused the children. It’ll be interesting to see how Kevin plays into this. He was definitely involved in the KZbin videos where other abuses were happening (at least in my opinions).

[@southbug27]

As a victim of child abuse, the emotional & psychological abuse hurts the most & is the most damaging. I say that even though I have a physical injury that is decades old, will never heal, & becomes more painful in winters & with age & even though there was a horribly violent attempt on my life, which was more terrifying than I can express yet nowhere near as painful as an insulting phrase or sentence that communicates you're worthless to your parent.

[@peacefulpath222]

Spiritual abuse too 🥺

[@Azsg724]

Seems a lot of people are leaning towards putting a lot of blame more towards Jodi. But I say no Ruby has been abusing those children for years ! And everyone has witnessed that on KZbin! But it sure went sinister when Jodi stepped on scene. They both need to pay for their crimes .

[@lhr8833]

Her cousin said in an interview that tying the children was also used in their family. Plus in the videos I’ve seen, Ruby makes a scary face every time her kids talk about punishments or she sees them crying, is like she feels pleasure from it. The way the students describe Kevin shows that he also has some abusive techniques, maybe he learned it with Ruby by manipulation or he used to do it anyway, but that also shows that some level of abuse would have been enabled in that house even without Jodi’s influence. I agree Jodi must have made it worst, she escalated the situation, but abused already existed in that family. Maybe she didn’t physically abused them as much, but the emotional abuse is the one that destroys even the kid’s soul and she looks so evil in those videos.

[@Brucebod]

I do hope you mean "all three" as we can't forget about the husband. I agree with your comment: Jodi's like an accelerant on top of a Judy-fire.

[@mattb541]

It's fair to allocate blame based on power and agency. Jodi, held more power and agency. But I really cringe at the word "blame", not sure why. I just don't think it's helpful way of framing things

[@lhr8833]

@@mattb541 I agree, is how I think Kevin might have been partially manipulated. Living in abüse people can learn to abüse and take it to other parts of their lives. In the videos looked like Ruby was usually leading and she had the evil face enjoying, plus seems like he left in the moment they had different opinions. However, I cannot say was fully manipulated and is all in Ruby because he has been more than a year out of that environment and for his student’s testimony seems he hasn’t improve. Also, there is no excuse to abandon children, not even if he was trying to save his marriage. A parental abandonment is horribly traumatic for children, even if that was the worst that could happen, is still abüse. In terms of Jodi, she had the best position to manipulate, a position of power and “expertise”. I can see how some parts played a leading role in this, but I cannot see any of them as fully manipulated and unaware of how bad this could be. For me, they all played their part in this disaster, with some in a more principal role.

[@flowerjpotter1629]

​@@lhr8833 Wondering about the father's role in all of this, it's worth noticing that the boy who escaped didn't ask the neighbour to call his dad to come and save him and his sister. He asked the man to call the police. Which tells me he didn't feel he could trust his dad to help him. It speaks volumes.

[@radybay9088]

In regards to the behavior that was reported about Kevin at BYU - the reason that he gets away with it is because every student at BYU knows that the are under authoritarian control A teacher like Kevin can always report a student to the honor code office. A student can (aledgedly ) be kicked out of BYU for drinking coffee or beer, smoking a cigarette, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, having sex, or being accused by someone of any of those things. The fear at BYU must be very disheartening to the students, and certainly promotes a safe environment for abusive teachers.

[@menarussell]

Good point!

[@gracenurse3365]

Does anyone aside from mormons apply to that school? Or is it like Oral Roberts University?

[@rationalmale6265]

Cringe

[@martiefurlong4609]

You guys are having entirely too much fun with “not, not” and I’m not not entirely joining in😂

[@merricat3025]

​@gracenurse3365 there are athletes aren't and get scholarships. I can't imagine going there but am a nevermo. I wouldn't even go if free. I looked it up it's 98.7 Mormon.

[@andreas.3893]

My brain definitely deleted the first “not” and I legit thought her book was called “You Are Not Enough” 😂

[@bobbicatt]

Omg, I work in medicine… to the bone ? I have tears rolling down my face To inflict that level of pain. My God , Justice needs to be served. No wonder why they have those 6 counts of aggravated child abuse. Jody needs to rot in prison. The Jesus I know, doesn’t hurt children. Thanks to both of you for always being careful and ethical .

[@naptowngarden]

You're right. I've seen to the bone wounds, healing over. It's absolutely heartbreaking.

[@godzillamanstreb524]

Agree😢😢

[@LoLoMcGee]

Not that this matters as it's wrong either way... but could him being emaciated make reaching the bone easier? As in less fatty tissue? I am not in medicine but am curious.

[@mad7fisher]

I saw a video law&crime today and I had to stop watching it. Ruby her husband were laughing. They told one of the children "we're going to Disneyland" He ran upstairs and packed. His bags came downstairs to the car & they "laughed as we told him we're not going to Disneyland!" They laughed as they said "he cried, the tears were going down his face" They were laughing as they recounted the story. They're both monsters. Not both. All three of them are monsters

[@JulieAnne-7]

@@mad7fisher- I heard that the rotten joke was played by the oldest brother-that’s why he got sent to that horrible “camp”.

[@Justine-ut8ho]

When the caller describes “wounds” and then began to cry……it had to have been serious. That child still thought he deserved the treatment, but part of him knew he might be close to death. That was the only reason he attempted to escape. Truly awful. I pray he spends his lifetime learning to heal from this trauma.

[@loralieisa]

He wanted the police called against Jodi I think.

[@barbaradonlin3675]

I think this was Godly intervention and he was meant to escape the home and find help for himself & siblings Like the Turpin case - the daughter who escaped was trying to get help for one of her siblings who would be chained to the bed and she felt she hadnt long to live Theres a case in GA like this...in May of this year the Schindleys ..krista & Tyler .. One if thur sons escaped from the home went to a neighbors looking for food . this boy was 10 and weighed 36lbs .. extremely emaciated ...authorities were called and both parents were arrested and. they've been denied bail. So both are still incarcerated .. Dont know if a trial date has been set ..they did plea Not Guilty.. This is the 5th case Ive read where a child or children are being starved & chained and one of them escapes. Truly Heart breaking ...these parents are evil & sadistic They should NOT receive bail at all And an example of them should be Child Abuse of this kind is NOT Acceptable .. those childrens rights to live were taken from them and so should Ruby's & Jodi's There should be an uproar if the Judge gives bail to Ruby .. I think a lot of ugly evidence will come out during this hearing that the prosecutors have collected Her lawyers dont know the evidence as yet and I would assume dont even know how to defend her Yet .. And her lunacy of a statement that she made last time if prosecutors can prove that False .. Will definitely be used against her I really Pray shes NOT FREED

[@DonnaLena1]

I hadn’t heard that RF’s wounds were bone deep before. That certainly explains why the neighbor cried on the phone with police. I doubt that we can imagine what those children have been through.

[@karenkollects9277]

Heart breaking the entire Griffith family abandoned those kids. He knew for 3 years no one was coming. He knew his sister was also getting close to death. Ruby’s entire family lived in Utah. Not one sister or brother drove over to the house to check on them or their father. Grandparents have been in Serbia for an year and still have another year. They have not even come home. This is a disgusting family that always talks about family togetherness. So heart breaking they were absolutely abandoned and left to perish.

[@barbaradonlin3675]

@karenkollects9277 Thats what I wrote on their page. You made phone 📞 anyone can make a phone call .. Why didn't anyone go there in person . The oldest daughter Shari called cps to do a welfare check because she heard the younger children were in house alone for days.. Why didn't she & aunts go over there and see for themselves . Ruby would go away for days they said . She wasn't even at the house when that poor child ran to the neighbors The condition of the son will come out in detail in their bail hearing I read in bond hearings like this the prosecution will show a lot of evidence . She Ruby nor Jodi or lawyers know to what extent of evidence they have .. Nor do I think they can argu it. Another words her lawyer can't argue Oh maybe one of the kids did this because she wasn't at home. Then you're admitting to abandonment The prisecutions job tomorrow is to show WHY she Ruby & Jodi should NOT be released Will their lawyers go against one another. Who Knows

[@ThatOddChickenHippie]

I knew that my grandfather was an extremely abusive and misogynistic man from things that my mom has told me or things that I overheard her saying over the years. A few years ago, I found out that after grandma passed. Mom and one of her siblings were going through items in the basement, and they found something that made a flood of memories come into my mom's mind that she had pushed out. In one of the trunks waaaaay in the back next to an old full-length mirror was makeup and women's clothes/shoes. As they went through the trunk, they realized that a lot of the makeup was makeup that she and her sister's had "lost" during their teenage years and accused each other of stealing, and their dad would get PISSED at them and tell them to just shut up and let it go. They then noticed that the clothes and shoes were way too big to have fit either their mother, herself, or any of their sisters. They then remembered all the times packages with their mother's name on them would come to the house, so she would open them and find clothes like this (way too big) that she never ordered; she would leave them on the kitchen counter until she could get around to asking all the kids (9 in total) about them and figuring out how to return them. When their father got home and saw that the packages were open, he would get FURIOUS and beat their mother (often with the shoes) before snatching the items and storming down to the basement; everyone was way to afraid of him to ever adj him about it when he came back up. This was back in the 60's to the 80's when he died, they were a strict Mormon family, and their father was a Bishop for some time. They are sure that grandpa was actually a trans woman (still going to use he/his because he never came out or anything) and was so awful to his wife and daughters (well, all of them, but especially his wife and daughters) is because he HATED that they were what he wanted to be and as an outlet for his own self-loathing. I blame this at least partially for why my mom and almost all of her siblings are so rampently transphobic. Yeah, part of it is because of their age and how they were raised, but trauma like that had to contribute to just how bad it is, especially when the ones that left the religion never left their transphobia. I once pointed out that the kind of environment that hatred like what she has creates is the exact kind of environment that contributed to her father becoming such an evil and hateful man. Boy, did she get pissed at that.

[@neurologylove2135]

Jodi seems so unhinged that if she gets out, I would truly fear for the safety of those kids. R.F. and E.F. specifically.

[@loralieisa]

Exactly, why take that chance?

[@mtaylor7307]

IF men had done this, would they be allowed bond? Or would it bond be so incredibly high that chance of bail wouldn't be likely? These women kidnapped, imprisoned, basically tortured children at worst and neglected at best. Will being LDS popular women that have facilitated mind control based on religion, with high profile LDS connections, will these two get that reduced culpability from A-Z? Aren't we all thinking what Dr John speculated might happen if the world weren't watching? 💔

[@rivkaesther2442]

If let out, she will try to flee the country. Remember that Jessi said that she did this when she made an unflattering comment in her real name after Adam Steed had written an anonymous piece for the Salt Lake Tribune about his experience with Jodi. Jessi said that she brought her kids to grandparents and left the country. She IS a flight risk for sure!!!

[@mtaylor7307]

@@rivkaesther2442 Yes, absolutely!! But that LDS cloaking in the court system may allow Jodi to bond?

[@hillarymurphy5256]

Jodi must never have access to other people unsupervised again.

[@marlenebulger6822]

She doesn't miss her kids, she misses her freedom.

[@t5l239]

She misses Jodi

[@janshe3597]

@@t5l239It’s been alleged that she kept asking where Jodi is.

[@Tina06019]

She is missing the targets for her sadism - that is, her children.

[@Fireball20204]

Finally someone acknowledges that it's some type of feelings between those two! Ruby damn near sits in her lap when they are together! She don't even look at her husband like that! Dr. John is the real McCoy because he is speaking the truth!

[@The_sky_is_still_blue]

💕Anyone would be so lucky to have Dr John as their therapist ! ! ! It's Not easy to find a "gem" like him - ( i know this through experience) So genuine , so intelligent , so thoughtful and Ethical and more , you both are so lovely really . A bright light in what feels like a grey world . Thanks for being here And , there is nothing wrong with a little dark humor , for funsakes 💕

[@deannag48]

I have always thought the exact same concerning Dr John. His patients are truly blessed to have him as their doctor. Wish I had him for my doctor!!✨🩵

[@LuckySpinster.]

Oh my god . Bone deep. That is beyond horrific. Those poor children. I can't imagine the psychological damage. The world needs to be a much kinder place, a softer place to fall. Especially for those who have experienced the darkest places, and been subjected to the unimaginable

[@lifewithlogie]

I don’t wanna offend you and hope it’s okay to say this, but I love your new hair Lauren!! I’m a hairstylist so naturally it’s the first thing I noticed 🙃I love the lighter on you and the warm golden tones are perf for fall 😍 love that you still have your brown for dimension throughout. It’s very flattering for you. Get it guuuurl You and Dr John are the best btw!!

[@HiddenTrueCrime]

Thank you! It’s fun to be lighter again and with your profession, I especially appreciate the compliment

[@Catfluff521]

I like it too; looks nice.

[@neverlydarlin6315]

Agree, looks great! Soft and fresh and fun! Love you guys!

[@abelis644]

You, in your profession, make the rest of us feel wonderful, so please, never apologize for your appreciation of a colleague's work! Lauren looks awesome!!! Thank you for your work!!! I am very faithful to my own stylist, I've only had 2 in the last 23, 25 years!!! And only because Rick, my best stylist ever, retired.😢 My current stylist, Brae is the best now! 😊❤❤❤ Hugs!!! Isabelle 👋🇨🇦

[@dunk9762]

100% agree. Lighter hair color makes you look years younger, and fresher. And love the lighter make-up as well.

[@NFLalumni1983]

The first time that I was made aware of Ruby and Jodi, was just after the arrests. I knew nothing about them. The few videos that were shared with me, of 8 Passengers, horrified me. When I saw video clips and photos of Jodi and Ruby, I wondered if they were a couple. They appeared to be. Now, people are questioning it. I believe that Jodi is a deeply damaged and dangerous person. I’m curious, whether any of her past patients benefited from her “system”. I would wager that no one has. She seems to be driven to destroy everything and everyone that needs help and comes to her. Ruby was a mini Jodi and had a huge following. Jodi loved that she could use Ruby for her following, while teaching her “system” and distancing Ruby from her husband and family. So much destruction. 💔

[@loralieisa]

What that Jody/Ruby did to the 2 children is not forgivable.

[@kellijanssen1171]

Many men are coming forward now with their stories on how Jodi ruined their families.

[@EaglesEagles-ip9nm]

I agree with your assessment, especially Jodi's "system" not helping any of the clients. She destroys all who seek her services.

[@tolowreading6807]

The interview with Jodi's niece, who was victimized by Jodi was fascinating and enlightening.

[@esindirik4447]

I have absolutely zero doubt Jodi is a psychopath after Adam Steed's interview. I'm a true crime addict and I'm rarely surprised at people, but I literally screamed "what the hell" throughout that video a couple of times, all alone at my home by myself trying to wrap my head around how skilled a person like Jodi can at being so calculating and cruel. She is just another level.

[@kellijanssen1171]

Especially with all of the help she received from the Mormon higher ups.

[@sherielowe4256]

This comment 100%

[@mtaylor7307]

Deviously so. And it wouldn't be surprising to learn her repressed sexuality has brought the intensity to the abusive dynamics.

[@nicolecourvoisier3007]

@@mtaylor7307💯

[@esindirik4447]

​@@kellijanssen1171 Hierarchy attracts psychopaths... and I sometimes feel like it must rare for a person to climb up a hierarchy of power without some psychopathic tendencies. Despite only 16 million Mormon members globally and LDS church wealth around 250 billion dollars... Why? How? Keeping people in a cycle of shame through sexual extortion and putting families at the claws of people like Jodi... If a person has a healthy family with good communication, feeling all safe and supported, they will need less "saving" from the church, and it's going to effect the financial empire of the church and all the people who benefit from it. Think about the church and its tentacles with all these "therapies", "sexual addiction" treatments, "troubled teen" industries, together with all the different communities which attach themselves to the Mormonism (deriving from Lori Vallow case) with a claim to special skills such as "energy healings", "reading of past life family trees", cleansing rituals and some conversion therapy still being conducted behind closed doors, so much more... It is all there to create a problem and offer the solution to the problem they create, messing up a whole population of people to make them feel like their only salvation both on this earth and "beyond" depend on the LDS. Putting their mere doctrine aside for a moment, in practice, the entire structure is psychopathic already.

[@catlyn777]

I think Jodi is the leader of her own little cult. She’ got extremely drunk with her own power.

[@francinelarsen3303]

It's ironic that with Jodi Hildebrand's sexual trauma at a very young age, as an adult she professes the position that EVERYTHING, even the bad things, happen to us because we allow it and are therefore responsible for it. WTH??! How did she get from injured child to condemning adult of injured children? Please answer this, Dr. John. And how did her clients swallow that BS?

[@TorisGotAStory]

Something that just occurred to me about John that’s a little off topic. I’ve been in and out of therapy since I was a college student (a million years ago lol) and still am. Some of the things John mentioned talking about Jodi and her experience in therapy as a child made me realize- John having a session talking about ‘how to find a therapist, what to look for, what is ok, how to get the most out of therapy …’ etc. would be a great benefit. I mean, I think I finally get what to look for and how to get the most out of therapy after 40 some odd years, but it would be most helpful for many I believe! I definitely would pass it along along to others! Thank you for all you BOTH do!!

[@paigebarker1468]

I think that's a really great idea! I've tried therapy several times but stopped going, most of those times were due to poor experiences with the provider. I had 3 separate instances where I felt extremely uncomfortable with the leading questions and undertones given off by the therapists (all 3 were male, though I do attribute some of those feelings to negative experiences I've had with men from childhood on). I also tried 2 female therapists, one of them seemed great until my insurance company stopped associating with her office. 😭 The second female felt very cold and unapproachable. So I know I would greatly appreciate some tips and guidance with finding the "right" one, and I'm sure many others would benefit as well!!

[@jackieimhoff8428]

There's a great channel called Mickey Atkins who has a video on just that! Mickey is a mental health professional who's very down to earth and fun to listen to.

[@TorisGotAStory]

@@paigebarker1468 it is a long process sometimes to find the right fit. It took me awhile to understand that it’s not me, sometimes it’s just not the right fit and learn what to look for AND what to ask them. You’re allowed to interview them to see if it will be a fit and they can meet your needs. Some get offended, and that’s one of the ways you know they’re not for you. And I TOTALLY understand about insurance. I had an AMAZING therapist for 4 years during some extreme insanity of my life. Then I got a new job and my new insurance didn’t cover her. Now the process starts again! The woman I found now, who HAS to go, I swear has a bowl of popcorn while on the phone w me when I talk. She’s even said - what happened next. Umm, my life is not a Netflix drama series you fool. Lol. Ba-bye. Lol.

[@TorisGotAStory]

@@jackieimhoff8428 oh wow. That’s fantastic!

[@wildlightarts]

she is wonderful! great idea! @@jackieimhoff8428

[@lesliematteis8010]

After hearing these student reviews, I’ve decided that Kevin is not innocent.

[@merricat3025]

I had said not going to judge him til know mire about him but those students reviews shed light on who he is more than victim of Jodi

[@judygillespie3242]

I can't believe you all can't see his character. He has demonstrated It at least since their KZbin channel has been up. Sometimes, you need to read between the lines.

[@mylifewithmarmalade4624]

Agreed. I was hoping to give him some benefit of the doubt. Yeah, he’s clearly an overly strict parent and his personal views aren’t something I can get on with, but maybe he’s a well meaning but misguided zealot who hasn’t been very involved lately and didn’t realize just how bad things had gotten for his kids. But those student reviews are disconcerting to say the least. The guy who would treat his students like that probably wouldn’t have cared even if he had known what was going on with his kids.

[@dianeh.3327]

Kevin was never much involved with his children.

[@suzieequee6220]

Me and Jodi's childhoods where eerily similar.. lack of supervision, sexual abuse, and i grew up liking women. She chose not to deal w the trauma, and i have done the same. It does no good, but i dont go around hurting people and abusing children. I think everything she has done is a self reflection of herself.

[@orianjuarez3074]

Sorry about your life experiences. I imagine you haven't profited financially, though?💖😊

[@jivajenmoreno-adams9984]

So sorry you are still suffering. I hope you are getting help from a compassionate competent source.

[@bonnieschoenemandilley3416]

So disturbing that Jodi has a license to practice. After hearing from her niece Jessi and Adam and others patients of hers were harmed.

[@shandalear3252]

Well it certainly seems she also has a license to kill.

[@crispmom]

I found out (from legitimate online sources) that Jodi Hildabrandt's master's degree is in educational psychology, yet she was/is licensed in Utah as a Clinical Mental Health Counselor. How was she licensed to provide marriage and "porn addiction" counseling in the first place?!? What is going on with the licensing boards in Utah?

[@Burningheartcelosia]

Educational psychologists can practice and obtain licenses in lots of clinical areas. I studied under an Ed psyc doctorate that is one of the leading autism specialists and diagnostic experts at WVU school of medicine….

[@Burningheartcelosia]

In other words, it doesn’t mean “education” expert or learning expert

[@MKConnecticut]

I wondered the same!!! Does anyone know ?

[@jivajenmoreno-adams9984]

This is an extremely important point. The national level of APA and AMA etc, licensing boards need to address the theocratic conflicts in Utah.

[@lorrainearmstrong327]

Why would any, any mother turn their back to all this going on? Let alone be part of it. I’m glad the Lord intervened and sent him to the right neighbor.

[@kimgoeckeritz6320]

I am a 40+ year old woman who has been back in school for the last 3 years. I use “Rate My Professor” to choose my professors every semester for every class. I have read hundreds, if not 1000s of student reviews, and not once have I ever come across any reviews claiming their professors were verbally and physically agressive with their students. Not even one when the review was super negative. I think that where there are multiple allegations like this, means there is truth to these claims.

[@javieratoledo9262]

Lauren gave the most interesting insight for me tonight about Jodi’s denial of her sexuality making her develop her whole therapy framework and what came next. Using god is a straight way to avoid dealing with the real world experiences. I think it’s pretty consistent with Dr Babe’s great representation of it last week and with the interview you posted. It’s pretty sad that many religions rejects sexuality as a natural force. Not only sexual orientation but masturbation, pleasure, all of it. A healthier approach probably would allow many of us feel less shame and more aware of consent.

[@Dianalynne]

Very sad. She manipulated her entire life just to survive and that's why she believed her victims were manipulators.

[@margaretadam2222]

Yes

[@janetshemaryahu5529]

Some religions fully recognise sexuality as a natural force and they add religious laws to help ensure a healthier society overall. One example: Who is served by inner city men who sleep in many different beds? Their unbridled sexual wants are fulfilled but at what cost? In every home, they leave behind poor, single women with four children apiece, each with a different paternity and an absent father. The religions I’m thinking of say no to this bc many innocent or helpless others are paying the price for one man’s uncontrolled sexual acts. And society as a whole pays a price. We all have sexual wants, but we also need to control them and to act on them in ways that do not hurt or exploit any other human or society as a whole. This is exactly what some religions attempt to do. Let us not throw out the baby with the bath water.

[@wesliepowell5698]

I always wished the men in the mormon church who abused me had just been free to go see a prostitute, or drink or smoke-- anything else rather than to hide in a closet and be sexual with their own family members.

[@lindarhoades698]

Viewing Jessie speaking about her experience with Jodi was very informative and certainly gave great insight on the disturbing counseling she received. My mother was bipolar and schizophrenia, so growing up as a little girl was difficult. She had a warped perception of the world and would accuse me of some very bizarre things; However, nothing ever physical but emotional abuse. Jodi makes me so angry.

[@moonagedaydream9786]

She misses having power n control over her kids. She misses humiliating them n abusing them any way possible. That’s it.

[@DonnaLena1]

She can’t wait to get home and start wreaking her wrath over this incident!

[@T.Rex33]

My ex-husband and I saw a therapist who refused to see me independently because I'm not a Christian. While I really liked his style (he literally put himself physically between me and my very abusive husband), I should have known there would be an issue when he insisted the session start with prayer. He wouldn't even recommend another therapist.

[@sharonchristian8508]

I worked Construction as a young woman because I didn't want to do all the work for the house and get no money. I loved the hard work of concrete finishing and framing because I did good work and was approved of by the male workers. That was much more desirable than being an invisible housekeeper. Oddly I like to cook and sew and keep a gracious home but there was no approval for that so I learned to build houses. I wanted to go to Med School but my fathers explanation as to why I couldn't was because I didn't have a Penis. I guess one can build houses without male genitalia but not practice Medicine. I sent myself to Nursing school.

[@mtaylor7307]

Racism and sexism are systemic. My nurse friends that had that same lack of support you found ended up becoming NPs. One moved to KY because she could have her own practice without MD supervision. She also notes she feels sexist discrimination is in play that she can't use her PhD title of Dr. Issues with confusion are cited the reasoning but she is always clear with distinction between MD. She feels being disallowed to use PhD in a predominately female profession is purposeful in a way that if the profession were male dominated wouldn't be.

[@flowerpower3618]

😶

[@MKConnecticut]

Since Jodi’s book was published in 2019 and Hyrum Smith died in 2019… perhaps Hyrum never wrote that book review - or ANYTHING at all! Just sayin

[@HiddenTrueCrime]

👀👀👀

[@kelseed890]

My brother was "sent away" to Utah Boys Ranch in West Jordan from Vegas at the age of 14. He was taken from his bed with my Grandpa, Uncle & a supervisor from the ranch. His first week there, in the beginning of November, he was made to only wear a potato sack & rope to prevent him from running away! He endured a lot of other situations, that til this day, he will not talk about. He lived there for 1.5 years and eventually moved in with a supervisor from the ranch & his family who took great care of him for another year til returning back home to Vegas. We were raised by a single mom, and even tho my brother was considered a troubled teen by our religion, no one should ever be ripped apart from their family & not have much contact with their loved ones for long periods of time! I know my Grandpa meant well by sending him to the ranch. I truly think he thought it was the best option at the time, and didn't mean any harm, but it turned out to be a pretty traumatic experience for our whole family once we peeled back the layers of what he went through at the ranch. It's very sad when these cases go to the extremes! Being raised LDS, I was bought up in a very loving home & and tight-knit family. We were raised to serve others and to be joyful & obedient. Now, as an adult & ex-mormon, I do see where religion, in general, is very restrictive. You are raised to only think one way and if you ask a question that doesn't fit their teachings, you're told "this church is true, you should feel the spirit & pray about it" basically. I now choose to be spiritual, not religious. It extremely disheartening what the Franke kids have been out through. Thank Lauren & Dr. John for always doing such a great job dissecting & reporting on these cases! ❤

[@merricat3025]

Agree with that, they thought it was for best at the time. People didn't know what was going on behind closed doors at these places. They showed pretty pictures and told about success. I would bet there were some good facilities out there. I can remember back in the early 90s contacting one of these wilderness camps for a job. Vision quest or something like that.Not sure why i never followed up. Thank God I didn't. It was probably one of those awful places.

[@sweetthunderoflove1]

I grew up in the 80s/90s and knew I was a lesbian at 6 years old, but even in high school, we were not out. All the teachers I knew were closeted always were the worst to me.

[@tealemon1465]

I just love Jessie her heart is so open and she is extremely insightful

[@belindatafe4787]

I'm really fed up when "Childhood traumas" are being used as excuses! Many of us have suffered as kids but don't go on to hurt others. We make sure that nobody will go through what we did.

[@peacefulpath222]

Yes but not all people end up cluster b personality types from trauma etc which they are

[@deannag48]

Dr John, yes it is deplorable for those that "run a muck" in your profession. I hold you in the highest regard. Thank you your professional Opinions. It's always appreciated. Bless you & Lauren & your adorable Son.🙏🩵✨

[@shellhill3142]

Regardless of how you are raised within a family or a church there is always a component of how an individual perceives, adopts and perpetuates the parenting or teaching. Many people who come from abusive backgrounds choose not to perpetuate the abuse.

[@livingintheforest3963]

I haven’t seen too many people talk about it, but I am assuming that these two women were lovers it’s pretty obvious to me. GLAD YOU are talking about it!!! The niece is a sweet girl!!❤

[@sherielowe4256]

I really hope Jessi comes on to your show for an interview. I think they would find healing speaking to both of you.

[@jordie1234]

I know that Ruby and Jodi are extremely close, and while Ruby did such horrible things to her children and deserves prison time, I do believe that Jodi is the more dangerous of the two. It is very clear that the two of them are very smitten with each other, but I can't help but wonder if Ruby will end up turning on Jodi as part of her defense, claiming she was being manipulated and brainwashed.

[@a.h.8947]

I also believe she will do that

[@Ozmaeoz]

@@a.h.8947 Ruby would have to "wake-up" to turn on Jodi because of the cult like coercive control, but it's not IMpossible. I think they feed off each other and Jodi is the smarter more manipulative one.

[@gointothedogs4634]

I'm feeling that she already has to an extent, after Ruby called Kevin for help. I got a strong sense she was or had closed an emotional door on Ruby.

[@EaglesEagles-ip9nm]

​@@Ozmaeoz I agree. Ruby is under Jodi's spell and is not ready to turn on her yet, in my opinion. I fear either of them bonding out of jail due to their influence on each other, Rubi's husband, the children, LDS church and Jodi's flying monkeys. Those children are not out danger by these two.

[@jodavis650]

Jodi will throw Ruby under the bus first

[@206doglady2]

You guys are awesome! I grew up LDS in Springville. I’m glad you guys dedicate yourselves to making sense of the entire case & related information. Anasazi is the worst business ever. It should be shut down. I have friends who were tortured there as teenagers. I ended up shelter in one of them in my home until she turned 18 because her family kept had her kidnapped for being a typical teenager. Also, I went to school with the Daybells. I’m friends with one of the brothers. He doesn’t seem anything like Chad. There are a lot of good people in Springville. Whatever happened with Chad, seems like a mental illness that went unidentified until it was too late. Springville Utah is normally the most peaceful, family town. Most of the people there are known for their kind nature and community involvement with the LDS church & their neighbors. It’s mostly LDS, everyone knows their neighbors and goes to church with most of them. However there is a lot of social pressure to appear to be perfect because the religion teaches perfecting one’s self. It turns into unhealthy comparisons & social pressure to appear to be spiritual and a recognized member of the church, holding a high tier calling. For example parents would forbid their daughters to marry a man who doesn’t have the highest Eagle achievement in scouting & a returned missionary. Keeping up appearances matters there but mostly people are subconsciously aware of how much their feeding their egos, because the church doesn’t ever discuss psychology or recommend any psychologists who aren’t also LDS. ExMormon meet up was founded by an ex LDS family counselor, who felt he had broken down people and relationships, due to the teachings the church pushed, which didn’t support minorities and painted their otherwise healthy thoughts as a type of mental illness. Scary a gay teen can be sent to a counselor who tells them being gay is a mental illness & they’re not gay, they’re “suffering from same sex attraction”. That’s only 1 example. There were others in telling wives to compartmentalize their feelings, to follow their husband’s who had the priesthood. That therapist caused others harm & he knew it… so he stopped being an LDS member & stopped counseling church members with bad advice & misjudgments. The LDS church does a lot of harm by not encouraging members to understand healthy psychology. They ONLY recommend indoctrinated and biased “therapists” so there’s a lot of undiagnosed mental illness, especially narcissistic personality disorder in the males who like he power, control, elitism and having a wife and kids as a source of narcissistic supply. I grew up in a patriarchal household where my mother was a second class citizen & it was called grandpa’s house. Often men growing up with these unequal gender rolls, more easily become more narcissistic, especially with the church telling them they’re closer to God, than the women around them. Women learn not to stand up to the men but isn’t they’re told to be sweet to get their husbands hearts to soften. Sadly, women aren’t as privileged or respected & a wife can’t tell her husband he’s mentally ill, especially if he had narcissistic personality disorder. If a narcissist is confronted, they will explode in a tantrum. So, if you married one at age 19 & you haven’t several children together… you wouldn’t have a job or means to support yourself & kids, you wouldn’t want to be separated from your children to be a part-time parent, so you would have to go along with your husband, even if he says he’s having visions and being directed by God through prayer. It’s a recipe for disaster in a rural town like Springville, where psychology is normally swept under a rug & religion dictates what is and isn’t appropriate. I’m happily no longer LDS & I hated being raised with so much religious weirdness.

[@alitataylor4223]

Not that I’m entitled to comment on your appearance Lauren but I’m loving your hair colour, especially on this video-really suits you & the styling is lovely 💗

[@BlondeGranny70]

For those that keep telling John and Lauren what to talk about or are critical of them, please STOP 🛑 it ! This is their channel and they can do and talk about whatever they want to. If you don’t like it please remove yourself or start your own channel if you think you can do better !

[@merriannemccall852]

Without deep diving into Jodi personally, and reading/ listening to everything she has to say ( I really don’t think I could) I think her use of “conXections” is very telling on her method of “therapy. It appears that she truly does try to “X” out individuals and couples feelings, opinions , etc with her version of “Truth” by any means necessary . She truly does attempt to break the person or relationship to conform to her version of Truth” period. Yet she suppress and refused to even admit her own truth. Coercive control at minimum and very dangerous as “therapy”. Can she truly even define that “Truth” concretely to her patients?

[@kmars3239]

Listening to dr John Matthias explaining Jodi’s book, was so interesting. Hearing him break it down for us was amazing. Jodi is definitely the one that I find most fascinating. Ruby I feel was like you said smitten with her. She looks at her in those videos like she is a god. It’s so telling.

[@janetshemaryahu5529]

But watch Dr. G. Explains channel (excellent, psychologist on body language & verbal analysis) for his review of a video featuring Jodi & Ruby in which Ruby makes comments that Jodi doesn’t like. Very instructive. I believe we were seeing two narcs vying for dominance. At that point, Jodi couldn’t control Ruby. Ruby knew her power - all the money, subscribers, and cachet she’d be bringing to Jodi. They were also live, on camera, so Ruby had Jodi in ‘checkmate’ imo. We should not underestimate Ruby’s dangerous behaviors.

[@kmars3239]

@@janetshemaryahu5529 wow that makes a lot of sense, I am definitely going to go watch it. Thanks for sharing.

[@jeannemarie5908]

Long term Utah resident here .. I was surprised that Jodi & Ruby were arrested and jailed. Now, knowing that the wounds were bone deep .. now, it makes sense. There was obvious traumatic abuse.

[@DonnaLena1]

The abuse was of a severe nature, too bad for the local authorities to ignore

[@erikkasepiphany]

Bone deep? What did they do to these kids? Whip them? Cut them on purpose?

[@jeannemarie5908]

@@erikkasepiphany I wonder if he wasn’t trying to get loose and rubbed the tissue away. Regardless .. he was one traumatized little kid.

[@erikkasepiphany]

@@jeannemarie5908 so he was tied up that long that whatever they used ripped away at the flesh and caused bone deep injuries? He could have died from an infection, he could have gotten staph.

[@FinnandMaxsMom]

One overarching theme that I hear with many of these cases is the extremism. Didn't anyone ever learn that moderation in anything is key? Thank you both for all that you do. Please stay safe and healthy!

[@janetshemaryahu5529]

Yes. “Temperance” was once an extolled religious virtue bc normal religious systems were fully cognisant of why temperance or moderation is so very important in so many complex ways.

[@Aristobulos7]

This Jodi thing is so twisted but so important for the psychology world and just everyone to learn about how repression comes out in dehumanization. Wow

[@obsessedwiththetruth7016]

The lawyer of the father said they had been in Ivan’s since June. He also slipped up and said that she called the father and told him it was an emergency and the police would be after them. So she fled on purpose. She knew what she had done. The child also said that hilderbrandt was at the house that he snuck out of. So she clearly fled as well.

[@fondamilaneses6261]

Lawyer didn't slip up. He said it on purpose. He's the father's not Ruby's.

[@obsessedwiththetruth7016]

@@fondamilaneses6261 he went back and corrected himself though when he realised it wasn’t something his client would have wanted to share. He literally backpedaled to say it differently to try and hide that comment. I think the father is still “in love with” his “wife” aka- blind!!

[@Trish.Norman]

I’m glad you mentioned this because there is a lot of confusion on the timeline. I hope Lauren and John make a vid to address this.

[@seascape185]

When the boy was at the neighbors asking for help he said Hildagaurd was home!

[@seascape185]

In one of Rubies videos she’s walking out of a school about something in abookor something I don’t recall I just saw a blurb. But she was very angry

[@heathertaylor6774]

The world is definitely watching. Those poor children. My heart goes out to them. I am following from N Ireland. Thank you for the clear and informative info.

[@maneckineckbeard1749]

I was shocked and horrified to realize that this Jodi is the same Jodi who was my therapist (only briefly, thankfully!) many years ago. I had really bad vibes from her straight from the beginning, and found her to be incredibly grim and judgmental. I also got the sense that she did not like or trust most men. I'm not LDS, and I got the sense that she was judging me in a way that was totally inappropriate for a therapist. FWIW, the one bit of tea I've not read or seen anywhere else is that Jodi has a lovely singing voice. I'd be happy to talk with you about my experience with her; it was pre-connexions and shortly after she began to practice.

[@HiddenTrueCrime]

So did Lori Vallow. 👀🫖☕️

[@maneckineckbeard1749]

Oh, and I just remembered! She encouraged me numerous times to break up with my boyfriend, and commented negatively about the fact that I lived with him.

[@ir9567]

@@HiddenTrueCrime sirens!

[@maryrowery80]

​@@HiddenTrueCrimeSo did Lori as in....? She was seeing Jodi?! Tell more pls. Or had a nice singing voice? 😉but she still has it I guess ..

[@mrslaceknitter]

Lori also has a lovely singing voice. I have no idea whether she had any connection with Jodi, although Lauren mentioned the network seemed to involve some of the same people. @@maryrowery80

[@elf1845]

I think Dr.John is spot on with his analysis of Jodie. Love the way you guys formatted this episode. Great deep deep dive. Dr. John's empathy really comes through Loved the ending. It was perfect.

[@JudeNance]

My mother was diagnosed psychotic. She killed my oldest sister and attempted to kill my youngest sister. She bragged about trying to killing people. The last time, she got a gun to kill her husband. He took a gun away from her. When I got there, I asked her what she thought she was doing? She said she decided she didn't want to clean his brains off the ceiling. I had her committed to the State hospital.

[@kathrynbaker7529]

I'm so sorry about the loss of your sister and what you've gone through. How terrible! I hope you're alright.

[@jennibarnes140]

Heartbreaking, unimaginable ❤❤

[@piraloumagus]

So sorry to hear that… sorry for your loss❤ send u lots of love

[@ASLLover666]

god that sounds like a horror movie. I'm so sorry for your loss

[@MaybeitsclusterB]

Wow. I truly hope you're in some counseling/therapy as this is paralyzing trauma. Hugs to you 💜

[@Micah98134]

Dr. John’s assessment of Jodi’s childhood and her book is excellent.

[@kayoliver5530]

Jesse Hildebrandts MS interviews are so profound she was so open and honest considering what Jodie did to her, a very brave young lady. Also have to mention Lauren Calling John Dr Babe was so sweet, you can just see how much they adore each other. I am so glad I saw Lauren on MS and other podcasts as this s all lead me here. Dr John and Laurens take on cases is so interesting having an actual forensic Phycologist and a former reporter gives Hidden True Crime an Edge that other podcast are lacking it's the same with Derrick on Crime Weekly being that he used to be a homicide detective they are both different podcasts but provide different angles from each case and it's so interesting. Keep up the amazing work Lauren and Dr John! ❤❤❤

[@kayoliver5530]

Thank for the heart guys! Sorry about my bad typing I suffered two acute strokes and my typing on my phone especially is terrible! Although I have sent some seriously funny messages to friends and family so there's a plus side 🤣🤣

[@kayoliver5530]

I lost the heart because I corrected my stroke brain mistakes 🤣 just can't win 🤣🤣🤣

[@godzillamanstreb524]

The oldest daughter will shed much needed light on her father’s participation and many additional details….ty for such thorough information 🌝…..btw (Brene….pronounced Renée)

[@robyncasey625]

I feel as though Jodi stating that if she were to have a same sex relationship it would be meaningful and deep, therefore different from other lesser people so okay. I see this as the same justifications Chad used for Lori, it was ok for us to have an affair because we’ve been married several times before, we are special .

[@mattb541]

I've experienced friends follow the same intellectual trajectory as Hilderbrant. Their fundementalist religion tells them it is a sufficient framework and map for life, then something happens in life or they change, and they need something more or different then their religion. They find it, for Jodi it seems to be mental health/psychology, and then the old religious programming comes back quick and hard and they simply go back to the religious frameworks, but keep the language of the new map they were reading. A lot of Jodis philosophy and psychological language are just synonyms for sin, immorality, etc. Jodi then takes the credibility of psychology and repackages her fundamentalist LDS view in it, probably not even consciously, and this means she now carries the power of religion and psychology. This move is why she speaks with such authority. I've got some more thoughts, excuse my wordinness: Repression, is the default mechanism of people from fundamentalist Abrahamic traditions. This means they can almost never confront their shadow. Without this, they become extremely neurotic because the shadow is surrounded by so much shame; it's too painful to confront. They become a split-self and their only model for understanding the split half they detest is one of sin, Satan, and demons. This is so low-res it provides no insight, only fear and shame, worsening the situation. Also, I don't think Jodis goal was fame and money. I am sure she likes it, but I think it's a misery loves company thing. She'll feel less alone, like she was as a child, if people are suffering with her. You see this with ppl who are incapable of romantic relationships - they think everyone should be single. Lauren, thanks for being assertive about how understanding leads to prevention. You're a more polite person than me. I think the people who believe understanding equals excusing are actually destructive and toxic. They don't like true crime cause it deepens their understanding of the human condition, I think they like it cause it helps them feel better about themselves. They need criminality. I think understanding these egregious behaviours is a threat to these people because it makes them feel less OK and superior. I think if they were more open and emotionally courageous, they'd see they have many of the same traits as the people the condemn, just maybe not to the same degree - as we all do.

[@llamamama2910]

Agree except that abuse is a conscious series of choices

[@llamamama2910]

Well said

[@mattb541]

@@llamamama2910 I think you're right it's a series of choices, but I don't really believe, most times, the end result is accurately called a conscious choice.

[@mtaylor7307]

So well stated, thank you. That splintering of self allowed deep compartmentalization in my conservative Christian upbringing. Then, the projection becomes us/them.

[@mattb541]

​@@mtaylor7307 I feel ya. Speaking from experience as well. I really think Jung's work on the shadow and a healthy dose of Buddhist philosophy (preferably the Zen school, imo) is a good part of recovering from mainstream Christianity. Then, if I need some reassurance that going back to it is not for me, a small, small dose of Nietzsche will bury that idea six feet under - with cement on top lol

[@k8marlowe]

THANK YOU both for addressing the sexuality issue regarding Jodi, especially. These were my thoughts, too. I have noticed on other channels/podcasts that people are going out of their way to avoid “speculating.” But, by avoiding this potentially ⭐️hidden motive ⭐️we could very likely miss an important opportunity to understand the roots of this case.

[@BamaCyn]

I agree. I've only seen 1 video of them together and thought they were a couple.

[@sunshinegal4294]

I’d sure love to know how Ruby was tipped off! I did not realize that Jodi & Ruby were arrested in Springville! I knew Ruby lived in Springville and went down to St. George to Jodi’s a lot. But I had no idea they had left those poor kids ALONE and tied up and bound with no food or water! Horrific!!! I’m sooo grateful R was able to escape or we could have had a much different outcome.

[@Darkstar-se6wc]

Is it possible that Jodi was in the house when R escaped, discovered he was gone, tipped off Jodi and fled north to be with her? And weren’t the other two kids at Jodi’s house up north?

[@fific9571]

Yes, I have driven through Utah many times and for those who have not, you cannot conceive the distance between Springville and St George. Leaving children alone, bound and starving while you are that far away from them is inhumane and you do not deserve to call yourself a parent, Ruby. Disgusting human being, yes, parent, no.

[@judygillespie3242]

I think Ruby figured it out at the hospital. Hospital personnel told her the police wanted to talk to her.

[@sunshinegal4294]

@@Darkstar-se6wc I believe the other two kids were down south with R.

[@sunshinegal4294]

@@judygillespie3242 But her son was down around St. George and I thought she was arrested in Springville? Had she been at the hospital in St. George and then left and driven to Springville?

[@Luluisraging.86]

It scares me as well Lauren! We had “Visions of Glory” in our home for ONE WEEK! My Mom checked it out from the Provo City Library, because many of her friends thought it was such a “Wonderful & Spiritual Book!” VISIONS OF GLORY was a book that you had to place on HOLD, and there were about 20 people in front of my Mom. My Mom only read maybe TWO CHAPTERS of this book. She said, “I NEED to get this Book OUT of our House! She didn’t have a good feeling at ALL ABOUT THIS BOOK! So, I took it back to the library for her! I also “used to know Maurice Harker. I know you’ve mentioned him…

[@nataliescott5594]

Jodi was at home with 3 of the Franke children in Ivins. RF clearly stated in the 911 call that 2 of his sisters were in that home, and Jodi was present as well. Ruby wasn't there, but drove there quickly. Ruby and Jodi were arrested in Ivins.

[@mtaylor7307]

Some are saying that Jodi wasn't at her home but the child didn't know this. IF Jodi was there with the children in her home when the police came, why wasn't she arrested immediately?? Did she argue the mother's children had dropped off at her place this way? If that's the case, Jodi didn't mandatory report the child abuse as required by law. So, did Jodi flee as soon as she realized the boy escaped or when she realized the police were being called, or after they arrived? Jodi arrived at Rubi's as you mentioned on the audio recorded, but that timeline is a bit confusing.

[@rivkaesther2442]

Wouldn't it be in the public records somewhere exactly where and when Jodi and Ruby were arrested?

[@deborahpoole9710]

What happened. Where did that other sibling go?

[@michelleayres5608]

I had a Franklyn Planner! Love the podcast! Lauren looking gorgeous! Dr. John, feel better!❤

[@soul_prints]

Thank you for all your research and hard work. My sister and I have loved listening to you both. You do such a great job of reporting and speculation. It's literally like the conversations I have with my sis and friends, but with people who are in the know. I have appreciated this since I began listening to you during the Daybell/Vallow case. I'm from Rexburg and have known a lot because my brother was on the police department and had friends involved in the case and I just loved your approach to the case. So again, thank you for all of your hard work investigating and evaluating information. 💕♾️

[@AVSgirl1985]

Dr. John's eyes are so kind ❤.

[@connie9963]

I am asking myself why am I so intrigued by this event. I just realized it's because I want understand why people do such things. Thank you Dr. For you explanation special your last comment... Embrace the person❤.

[@Coffeeme19]

I cannot not watch you 😂😂you both are awesome.

[@brendaford5542]

LOL Is that a double negative

[@lizabuddenhagen9906]

I don't not agree. Not not 💯!

[@edithpeter7777]

I like the way Dr. John is able to discuss tough subjects. I learn from both of you to be sure! Thank you for taking on the person's in the news that make me feel sick and pointing out some of what drives a person to such extremes.

[@cynthiajagneaux3949]

I think you can rest assured knowing your gems totally get your sense of humor & love it. I look forward to your videos every week. Dr. John has such a huge heart and a way of letting everyone know we are enough. Without sounding too “out of it” can you explain what a Venus flytrap is (other than a plant)? Lauren, I love your way of connecting with the viewers.

[@vickytaylor9155]

As someone outside of the U.S, Utah’s laws are a joke. I have heard on other channels that they may only serve 5-10 years. That is possibly less than 2 years per child. They should never be released. Kevin Franke should be in jail too having seen some of the clips and seeing what happened to CF. Come on Utah bring your laws up to humane standards for the victims. Ruby and Jodi are dangerous and should NEVER be released. Those kids need to feel loved and safe.

[@janshe3597]

Well, let’s hope they get at least ten years, by then all of Ruby’s children will be adults. Jodi’s children are already adults, her daughter told her cousin Jessi that she can NEVER, EVER be in the same room as her mother Jodi EVER AGAIN. Both of Jodi’s children were living with her when Jessi was being abused by Jodi. Her daughter even changed her name so Jodi wouldn’t be able to find her… EDIT, I’m not from the US either, I have heard that the LDS Mormon Church have some control with most of the State of Utah, the Government of this State is a joke. I hope their trials are not held in this State, there are far to many Mormons there. They need to move them out of State. I believe that the Church will try to influence its parishioners who may be chosen for the Jury. Jodi has worked with the Church for over two decades, I’m sure she has lots of information on most of the Bishops…

[@Lu-LadyBug]

Dr. John and Lauren, this probably one of my favorite podcasts you've done. Thank you for all your efforts. I think John nailed it, Jodi is a lesbian, there's nothing wrong with that. It's the fact she won't admit it and deal with it. She's not, not ok, she's evil.

[@katnippp]

omg absolutely love knowing that Dr. John teaches at UNLV!!😭 Im currently going to school there for architecture. Love your channel thank you both sm!

[@livingintheforest3963]

Yes, and this has been having complete Turpin flashbacks for me. I followed that case so tightly with the KZbinr that was in court and everything it was really an intense case. I remember it beginning of 2018 beginning of the year, such an unbelievable case.

[@EattheFOODTina-ND]

Only 24,000 more listeners to get to that magic number of 144,000 Lauren & John!!! Good work 🥰

[@truecrimejesus]

I wouldn't be surprised if this channel, and others that have covered this case in detail, will hear from Ruby and Jodi next week. I think they will unsuccessfully try to get these videos taken down. They are both obsessed with trying to control the narrative but its spiralled too far out of control. I'm looking forward to what the future brings in this case. I don't think they'll get away with this. The public is too outraged.

[@lovebaileymarin]

I thought she was projecting! I love hearing Dr John’s similar analysis.

[@taradulin211]

I found this channel through your analysis of Alex Murdaugh, and you have been my favorite channel ever since. I have been on my own journey of healing and recovery from childhood trauma for about 7 years. Some think it odd that following “true crime” helps me wrap my head around the pathology (personality disorders included) in my own family. All I know is that your insight has helped me better understand (the why and how behind) what I experienced at the hands of others. I sincerely hope the Franke children have access to valid therapy. The road ahead of them is long. (The same goes for Jodi’s followers as well …). Thank you for your insight. You are making the world a better place. May more grow in their capacity to thinking critically and deconstruct harmful ideologies and systems. So appreciate you guys ♥️❤️

[@nicolecourvoisier3007]

Me too 🙋‍♀️

[@abelis644]

"Low on duct tape..." 😂😂😂 Sorry but that was too funny...😂 I hope the Franke children are safe tonight, sleeping in real beds, eating real food, and far away from abusive clowns... 👋🇨🇦

[@Jerry-tk7hn]

The judge will say they are first time offenders and use that as an excuse. No doubt the prosecutors will be told to backoff . I'm so glad your sharing this if enough eyes are on these two and they can't pretend it's a minor issue that judge can feel the pressure. We have repeatedly heard how corrupt Murdoch and the low country is it sounds to me like Utah is got them beat.

[@merricat3025]

Nationwide publicity will make it harder to brush aside. If this didn't get coverage I bet they would have been released.

[@margaretadam2222]

@@merricat3025Worldwide coverage from anyone who follows true crime. I’m in Scotland and have been following this story since Hidden True Crime covered Daybell. If what is being reported is true, no bail.

[@rhonda66ful]

Your channel came up on my newsfeed, I really like the message you give, and how you assess the criminal as well, how all of this happens and hopefully it won't happen again, I never knew of either of those 2 women until all of this happened, the problem I see, especially with the writing of the book, I am wondering myself if someone is not healed and gave up therapy, how can they be a therapist themselves and try to "heal" someone else, anyway, thank you again! I subscribed to your channel, can't wait to hear more from both of you.

[@charlotte583]

Fabulous live as always…. Couldn’t agree more, the tones of the Turpins, Lori… it’s frightening… I too believe Jodie is a Lesbian, she is projecting so much and almost telling her own story through the treatment of others… she is a coward and a very very unwell woman… keep being the fantastic podcast you are, we adore you xx 😘

[@amyrivers4093]

I think at the very least she is bisexual.

[@charlotte583]

@@amyrivers4093 ….agreed xx

[@ruthmyers2397]

I love love ur show!!!,always get real deep insight's frim listen ing to both of u..thank u Lauren and Dr.John. NOT, NOT IN DISTORTION LOLOL

[@Soh583]

Thank you guys, this is a great community to be part of ❤

[@Enoch840]

Lauren & Dr John thank you for all the coverage and deep knowledge you persistently provide. I love your work and appreciate each of you! 🙏💯♥️

[@orianjuarez3074]

Casual "armchair" therapist observation.💝 The children look frightened in videos. They appear to look @ their Mom almost every time they speak. I was an emergency nurse x40 years. Dealt with Psychiatric patients almost every day. Loved it. Hugs & love to you & your family.💖😊💖

[@Woodman-Spare-that-tree]

Not always with fear but never with love. I agree with you; I noticed that too.

[@missmiss5051]

I've been watching and listening (around the "dinner" table) to you guys since Lauren was first asking on the Facebook page about thoughts on starting a podcast, love your approach on most things and glad to see your 100,000 subscribers. ❤

[@TraceD007]

Yes. It felt the same way as Dr. John. I immediately thought they will get out on bail and they won’t spend much, if any, time in jail. It absolutely makes me sick to think that. I’m glad it is playing out before the whole world. For every one of Jodi’s victims, I hope she spends the rest of her life in prison. As for Ruby & Kevin, I’m not sure but if they get time, it won’t be much (if Kevin is ever arrested).

[@IzzyMariel]

unfortunately child abusers get slapped on the wrist in all of the states. It's outrageous

[@DonnaLena1]

Will those children be placed back in the Franke home? That’s terrifying to think about!

[@rivkaesther2442]

This is why Hidden True Crime's exposure and the brave testimonies of abuse under Jodi from both Adam Steed and Jessi Hildebrant are so crucial. Besides saving these children, hopefully many similar situations to these will be prevented. Good for you!!! Good for us all!!

[@TraceD007]

@@DonnaLena1 I hope that never happens. If they put those children back in the hands of the parents, I think there would be major pushback from the public.

[@gointothedogs4634]

I wondered the same, given that emotional abuse has not been recognized to be as severe as physical, but now I'm not sure because this has become a world news horror story. All eyes are on Utah, these women and the Mormon church, following the Lori/Chad case.

[@Mamaof7monsters]

My 13 year old daughter used to say I not not naughty mommy ! All the time. But love you show Laura and Dr John your are the best!

[@paulamarie43]

Here on replay . So sad I missed our time together tonight . If you, any gems see this, a dear fellow artist and precious friend of mine is passing tonight . Please hold all her loved ones in your thoughts and prayers for her~ for all to go as she intended. Miss you gems.

[@bethbeaudoin6374]

🙏❤️

[@DeeKay-66]

Thank you for the in-depth coverage of this very sad case. I want to take a minute and acknowledge you both for the time you’re sacrificing away from your family time to bring us all the great content. I heard your son’s sweet voice ask if you were almost done and it reminded me how much you both are doing to give all of us the truth. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. 💕

[@momintheshoe4278]

Us lesbians say “No thankyou Jody” go back to your side of the picnic table

[@suzieequee6220]

Lol agreed as a lesbian

[@odinsdottir3898]

Speaking from the other side of the picnic table...we don't want her either 😂 can we put her on that wild "merry go round" from my childhood in the 70s???? The one that went 800 mph and had no safety equipment? 😂

[@kathrynjavandel4357]

There are some lesbians who are good people and some lesbians who are bad people, same as doctors and teachers and police officers and every other groups of human beings. So, if they are indeed lesbians then you're stuck with them being lesbians same as I as a middle-aged white woman am stuck with them being middle-aged white women.

[@momintheshoe4278]

@@odinsdottir3898 agree!! We can I’ll give her a little push

[@rosierose5996]

The straight girls don't want her either........🫨

[@2012Cheetah]

This is why you are both so great…you enjoy your gems armchair psychology!

[@littletp8787]

Both you and John are so fortunate to have each other!

[@learntospeakdogwithrachelm5866]

Aaawww I'm so late to the party... Sorry just catching up. Loving this. I'm an hour in and on the subject of armchair psychologist... you guys make me want to go back to University and study forensic psychology. .... at 43🤣 Like I TOTALLY want to be in your gang. I'm a quiet observer during videos cause I can't multi task... I'm always so impressed how Lauren can do all she does during the lives 😮.... my ADHD brain isn't wired for all that jazz. Thank you both for all you do and thank you to your INCREDIBLE moderators and a special thank you to all the people that financially support what you do. Even I have a stable income I will contribute. In the mean time, I try to share everyone you do on Socials. I learn so much from you both. 😊

[@HiddenTrueCrime]

Thank you!! ❤❤❤