High Marshal Helbrecht - Mightiest Chapter Master Around? Unit Review and Tactics

[@maciekwilkosz6377]

With this creep rate when they get to Ol'Marneus he will be so "Ultra" powerful as to match his lore where he one shots Avatar of Khaine and uses Necron Pylons as his personal mace :D

[@roryokane5907]

There was a novel which neatly undercuts the “single handedly killer an Avatar” thing, which was nice as it acknowledged that that was going to become the myth because 40K is 40K.

[@godconvoy]

He did rip the head off of a Mecha of Korne as well.😉

[@drip671]

Nah, haha helbrecht is the best chapter master

[@luckylarry71]

AT - it would be really fun if you could make another "tournament" between the Chapter Masters, but this time, throw in some Forge World characters too (Moloc, Tyberos, Angelos etc.) along with some Primaris too! I'd love to see that on your channel.

[@LysimedVenteel]

Marneus Calgar vs Logan Grimnar vs Dante vs Azrael vs Kayvaan Shrike vs Lugft Huron vs Gabriel Angelos vs Tyberos vs Pedro Kantor vs Gabriel Seth vs Asterion Moloc vs Casan Sabius if Wahapedia serves me correctly.

[@luckylarry71]

@@LysimedVenteel Tyberos *the Red Wake*

[@n00bfishie]

Also throw in the Eldar Phoenix Lords (the Craftworld chapter master / Primarch equivalent), so I can weep at the results.

[@DelightfulTyrant]

Proving the non-believers of codex Black Templars wrong is what Helbrecht (and crusader squads) do best.

[@michaelstewart9308]

I used to use him at 155 points with a significantly worse statline, I'll definitely be using him now

[@danpsyker6122]

So basically apart from the 3++ this guy is better than Trajann Valoris in every way for 30 points less

[@qyzxger790]

Exacly my thoughts! :D They really fked up the Custodes Characters! I hope they finally get interisting and good in the new edition!

[@Autechltd]

Got to sell them models!

[@rogaldorn252]

Wait 'til you see Trajann's new profile ;)

[@qyzxger790]

@@rogaldorn252 I hope it makes him justice! :D

[@peeledapples4176]

For now.

[@isawaryokage]

Helbrecht is suffering from a bad case of power creep, hate seeing stuff like this for little reason. Dante is 165 and has the same Attack stat, Azrael is 170, and Shrike is S4 in every attack and doesn't get extra attacks from his dual Lightning claws. These "cleave" weapons should give like 2 extra attacks instead of double the number.

[@maugetar9340]

Are the black templar army rules or even the overall army powerlevel on a similar level as Blood Angel and Raven Guard? Otherwise direct comparisons are difficult to make.

[@MagralhoPT]

*cries in tyranid broodlord and/or tryranid prime and/or swarmlord and/or hive tyrant*

[@peeledapples4176]

Azrael is a very powerful buffing character, he’s about right.

[@DarksteelPenguin]

@@maugetar9340 While being overall on the same powerlevel as BA or SW, the BT codex provides a few very strong things, included but not limited to: a chapter master that hits like 2 dreadnoughts, a strat to gain Obsec, vows (another layer of army-wide buffs on top of doctrines and chapter tactics), Tähnauser Bones. That stuff pushes the codex to almost the same level as DA. My main beef with this codex isn't power though, it's the lack of original stuff (bar vows). In almost every category (relics, traits, strats, litanies), you see the exact same kind of mechanics as other 9th ed codices.

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

@@DarksteelPenguin - It's like they took many of the best things of every army released until now, under-costed them, and then called it "Black Templars Codex".

[@geoffreykandolo973]

A tournament of Chapter masters is in order get some of the forge world ones.

[@patrickochojski2032]

I‘m pretty happy he mentioned Calgar, I think he should either be like 170/180 or should get flat 3 damage with his Gauntlets of Ultramar as well. Probably both. Guilliman should just get „flat“ 4 bonus attacks with his Hand of Dominion Profile, in addition to like 6-7 Sword Attacks.

[@maciekwilkosz6377]

While at the start of 9th Guiliman was quite respectable for his cost, new releases sure mad him look a bit pricy. I also never understood why THE EMPERORS SWORD (of Flaming Death TM no less ;) ) didn't get some more flashy rules. It's like the most powerful meele weapon in all of 40K.

[@lukhinio3200]

Agree with what you wrote. Calgar need cost reduction and Gulliman need an anti horde profile. Everyone these days gets couple profiles like this but he is a Primarch so somehow he cant fight like that???..

[@TheTexasDice]

Guilliman was never good in 9th, because they immediately nerfed all of his auras without compensating the points cost.

[@tonybayer2546]

Oh don't worry, when Ultramarines get their 9th edition supplement they'll actually be competitive and then you'll hear more bitching and moaning about Ultramarines, "waaaahhhh, why do the ultrasmurfs have so much plot armor, why do they always get new stuff, why can't they just be an F tier faction, WHY?!?!?!"

[@thecmoose4754]

Local crusader too angry to cease purging

[@kida4313]

What were they thinking? Oh yes, I remember: We like money, let's make this a must include.

[@TheWarpForge]

Fun lists - every time!! Competitive lists - will need to wait and see. I'm just not sure as I still Don really know what to think of them on the table.

[@nikot.9920]

Quite the respectable statline, big respect that he gives Old Wolf Grimnar a run for his money 👍

[@recurvestickerdragon]

Broken

[@Dartowl1]

This guy seems very similar to typhus. He trade an extra toughness for 2 wounds and trades phychic for some extra attacks. He’s similar in points and abilities, and his melee weapon is almost identical to typhus’s.

[@chrisc7563]

If Typhus gets Nurgle's rot then they're very evenly matched. Typhus has the weaker weapon but his toughness debuff and T5 helps. Also he has a lot of mortal wounds. They're unlikely to kill each other in one turn but the destroyer hive and a good smite might tip the balance and put him ahead on all those chapter master chumps. Typhus buffs aren't as good until you run Terminus est, then his warlord trait is also really strong too.

[@gundricsgamesandhistory.9450]

Of course Helbrecht is more powerful than the other chapter masters for one simple fact. He's the newest mini that GW wan to sell shitloads of.

[@jonny_leach]

Killed before he even struck back by an ork warboss in the recent #Tabletop-tactics battle report

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

That does not mean he is not terribly under-costed vs. other Chapter Masters. I am so annoyed, I am going to apply to a job at GW later today. They are hiring a rules writer.

[@jonny_leach]

@@andrewbakescakes9684 he does seem cheap. If you get the job then you might want to tweak the data sheet too because the alleged OG chapter master of Astartes needs to be able to go toe to toe and not get minced by the first vaguely tough xeno who waltzes in 🤣

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

@@jonny_leach - I applied. Fingers crossed! 9th may be hard to fix, but I believe in the potential of 10th.

[@gdenight]

I had sort of taken him out of theory lists, combination of cost, the unwieldy base, and already having multiple Captain-ish models. But the GT changed my mind and I like the idea of starting him with the Dreadnaughts.

[@zbway57]

Ive had a great time running him and grimmy together and putting them near two dreads at the start (one is redemptor and one venerable, what i had available) and then having them merge with crusader squads moving forward after that first shooting phase. Feels like really good value if the map will allow you to go from buffing the shooters to moving up with infantry. It is slightly hampered by his slower movement but if you take an advance on him and grimmy first turn after giving your buffs to the dreads he can usually catch up to the crusader squads or assault intercesors i run.

[@kokevinny]

And Dante is 165 points... nice.

[@DarksteelPenguin]

And Dante is quite fairly priced. For 160pts you can have a vanilla Chapter Master with jump pack, relic blade and inferno pistol. For 5 more points (the difference between an oldblood and a primaris captain), Dante gets +1 W +1 A (which is also the difference between an oldblood and a primaris captain). So you forgo the flexibility in relics and WL traits, in exchange for a -1 to be hit, 1 CP, a 2+ save and free Only In Death Does Duty End. Seems quite fair honestly. Now what I can't understand is why Helbrecht is the same price, while having much stronger melee and an additional aura.

[@Clitoriacetal]

crying about the codexcreep rn looking at this and then looking at grimnar hurts

[@kubekzpiciem]

So his sword is same or better than gauntlets of ultramar? that makes sense, just like any power sword is same or better than pwoer fist!

[@mikoajkosowski1750]

His sword is forged from a weapon wielded by Rogal Dorn himself, ofcourse it's stronger than some power fist.

[@kubekzpiciem]

@@mikoajkosowski1750 right, gauntlets weilded by guilliman are "some power fists". Also Dorn had a giant chainsword, so I guess they disassembled it, desecrating it and remade it to some power sword. Ignorin all that, point still stands, power fists are supposed to pack more punch while swords penetrating power.

[@maciekwilkosz6377]

@@kubekzpiciem exactly. Gauntles of Ultramar are described as pretty epic item in lore. Even back in 2nd ed that was the case. They must be magical after all if they can both fit on Calgars hands as well as on big boy Guilliman's :P . Having said that I think old lore specifies that they indeed change to fit whoever is wearing them... pretty crazy stuff. Ultramarines revere them so much they're hold in a stasis casket while not in use and no tech priest was ever allowed to dabble with their internal workings.

[@cousinzeke4888]

@@kubekzpiciem Dorn himself snapped his chainsword in half. I'd assume they rounded up the bits and melted them down to make the sword of the high marshals.

[@scottlock8584]

Helbrect killed a demon prince in solo combat with his combat knife...

[@papanurgle8393]

I guess big name chapter masters are going to be 8 wounds from here on out? With so much multi-damage I guess you need it. It's kind of weird to me that he has more wounds than Typhus though.

[@cousinzeke4888]

I've been assuming his attendants each counted as one of those wounds.

[@shanepatrick4534]

He's the latest, so with the current power creep meta he'll be the best.

[@mistsofthenexus76]

I think Draigo is still the strongest chapter master around. He doesn't have a fancy melta, but who needs that when you are a psyker.

[@TheDBall73]

Grimnar would mop the floor with this nancy boy in terms of story and lore. However, in game terms, Logan is nothing more than a terminator with storm Bolter and thunder hammer. Leadership rules sure, but no combat rules. Never mind the fact that Logan is the only human to RUN in terminator armor.

[@tardigrade8019]

Not just run, sprint. The man is a monster. Also, he is pretty usable on Stormrider. Decent durability, mobility and hitting power. Tho I agree, his lack of extra buffing abilities and his warlord trait hold him back.

[@maciekwilkosz6377]

Can he jump in it thou ? Gabriel Angelos sure does :D Just look up DoW III

[@kastork82]

> Grimnar would mop the floor with this nancy boy in terms of story and lore. :D :D :D

[@dakotawalkerauthor]

The furry has entered the chat, I see.

[@leaguesmanoframsgate]

One thing that might work well is using him with a big squad of Aggressors to boost them up to S5 - wounding Orks on 2s with the gauntlet weapons is always handy. =]

[@castorfields9584]

The strength buff happens after the power fist x2. So they're strength 9 sadly.

[@leaguesmanoframsgate]

​@@castorfields9584 Well that's unfortunate.

[@Drew_Thompson]

mightiest chapter master is Alpharion of the Water Snakes, best space marine chapter ever.

[@Archangel4500000]

Anyone else notice the 25mm base on the datasheet? lol I think it wasn't properly updated, pretty sure he is a 60mm model.

[@adamstephens5964]

Why does he have 8 wounds though? Lol he’s a Custodes captain if he wears the angels artifice basically.

[@kalamander8563]

The two attendants add a pair of wounds is my guess

[@diegogonzalezpena8733]

Which power armour is wearing? Why a 2+ save?

[@aaronm3795]

Gw please balance your game. Why is Dante more expensive than this guy? He’s so much worse in terms of rules but I want to use him because he’s so cool in the lore

[@DarksteelPenguin]

Dante's the right price, this guy is way too cheap.

[@NeloBladeOfRanni]

Cry harder imperial player. I would love for my chaos lords to actually be better than space marine captains like they are in the lore but can't have that or you loyalist players would complain

[@jimmysmith2249]

@@NeloBladeOfRanni So salty. Can I borrow some for me soup?

[@Guem2856]

CRYIN MARNEUS CALGAR

[@felipeopazo2662]

Mightier than Gabriel? Damn

[@dmitriyparfenov]

I get some 2nd edition vibes from this.

[@DoubleAMC0]

Does Shrike compare to him in any way?

[@malekith13]

Shrike move way faster, fly and he's lower cost.

[@AnonAmbientLight]

Got you fam, let's do some math! Kayvaan Shrike gets 6 attacks (1+ on the charge). He's WS2 and can give himself full rerolls. He can also reroll his charge too, so he has a better chance to get into combat. He also gets a 50% chance to deal 1 MW to a unit after charging. His warlord trait makes it so enemies cannot fire Overwatch on him. His weapon is S4 AP3 2 reroll all wounds. The following assumes 7 attacks on the charge. He kills 6 GEQ. He kills 4 T4/3+ Marines. He kills 1 Gravis Marine He deals 6.301 damage to T7 vehicles.

[@DoubleAMC0]

@@AnonAmbientLight Thanks boss man

[@ЕвгенийГерасимов-у9ь]

I wish Dante getting buffed someday)

[@joelluker4443]

Wouldn't he have 13 attacks? 6×2+1=13 or am I missing something?

[@halo37721]

He gets the +1 from shock assault. The way the sword's ability is written means that extra attack counts as 2 and you don't follow the usual BIDMAS you would for something like strength. Hope this helps!

[@heckinmemes6430]

He's the newest one. So, yea? At least until the next one is released.

[@hootchNjoel]

This dude is basically a dreadnought

[@se7enspac3s]

Had a ven dread make a 12 in charge on him last week. Made all my 4+ saves and one shot the dread.

[@Noble_Flash]

Where is Kaldor Draigo? He is GK chapter master.

[@maciekwilkosz6377]

GK are just a myth :) Just ask any imperial citizen or even a high ranking official ;)

[@Noble_Flash]

@@maciekwilkosz6377 :D But I think Draigo will be more deadliest than Helbrecht!)

[@recurvestickerdragon]

He's in Comorragh, of course

[@Noble_Flash]

@@recurvestickerdragon what is he doing there?

[@maciekwilkosz6377]

@@Noble_Flash waiting for a TTS relaunch ;) ... which might take forever sadly.

[@MuphynDragon]

Mightiest until we finally get TUSHAN

[@PlayWii360tm]

STOMP STOMP!

[@maciekwilkosz6377]

Who's "2-Sean" ? Just kidding :D

[@ourcommonancestry6025]

I, Cato Sicarius, am the greatest soon-to-be Chapter Master.

[@Tahydrahel]

I, Cato Sicarius am the Captain of the Victrix Honor Guard. Only Serving Guilliman, already am higher than Calgar.

[@lukhinio3200]

Dont worry vitrix primaris captain/champion will have his moment.

[@Autechltd]

Draigo vs Helbract?

[@Noble_Flash]

Usual it would be: 7 guardsman Or 7 marine Or 5 Gravis And that all without 2 cast, example smite + vortex

[@peters6345]

Meanwhile Shrike XD

[@lanesteele240]

I want this base

[@MadHatterMCD]

Why is Seth the same amount of points as this guy???

[@fortdimitri2365]

Characters should only have 1 wound over regular units unless they have something special

[@brandonforrester9729]

That is terrible idea that would mean it would take 5 intercessors to kill most of not all space marine characters and all other races equivalents.

[@DarksteelPenguin]

That worked in 7th and before because they were no multi damage weapons. And units were overall a lot less killy. 5 W seems fair for a Captain, I'm fine with named characters having one more. 8 W is the wound profile of a dreadnought though, it's way too much.

[@jimmysmith2249]

@@DarksteelPenguin Yeah, 9th is super lethal.

[@aeaaea8113]

Yo be honest it s not a real powercreep as in terme of stat and dmg he s same than typhus for DG (considering typhus is a false 6 W cause he have -1D ) for the quite the same cost (160 vs 165) althought he exchange psy ability against combi fuse. So yeah i fell the comparaison is biased, to see if powercreep or not he should have been compated with other v9 carac, and if you do you see that no he s just on par with them. If problem there is, it s lore about SM name carac being subpar than powercreep (which is not if you look on carac of other v9 army ...) People thinking of powercreep just dont consider what was sold by GW since 10 month ...

[@RenegadeGR721]

helbrecht gets S+2 AP-3 D1 one-handed while blade champion gets S user AP-1 D1 with hurricanis, I call bs

[@fullgreys0n738]

Who cares for blade champions..

[@smugron1101]

I wanna justify this by saying "he is a named character" but yeah, nah. GW just wants people to spend money.

[@Pers0n97]

Do you hear that? It's like a ghostly voice saying... saying.... "PooOOoooWwwweeEEEErrrr CCCrrrrRReeeeeEEEp"

[@bmbtdk]

One questions how imhotek could never take his hand.

[@terratheterribl]

8 wounds 2+ 4++... jesus

[@vornamenachname1218]

Lol the comments back then... Remember when THAT seemed OP? Good old times.

[@Chodor101]

I came so fast orcs that haven't even won the tournament

[@CTaG14]

Chadbrecht

[@AnonAmbientLight]

Yes...yes. Get upset at this and don't look at any other Chapter Master. Especially Draigo. Especially him!

[@stormraven8484]

I know there will be Bacl templar fans that are going to argue with me on this but I still think my Favorit Black templar will always be Sigismund hope he comes back as a leagion of the Damed Hero.

[@gabrielehu3157]

the datacard says he uses a 25mm base 💀

[@Spongemonkey26]

So he's pretty much auto-take?

[@Mechabang]

Wwaaaaaah!

[@snowy5628]

Well obviously he should be the best Chapter Master, I mean it's not like Dante rules half the imperium....

[@Tahydrahel]

Still gets smish-shmushed by Belakor.

[@TheDBall73]

Doesn’t everyone? Lol

[@vornamenachname1218]

What's your point?

[@dekametr]

base 25 mm ?

[@Dawthchling]

old model. new is 60mm

[@pegcitykid]

He’s ridiculous, so much so that it makes me want to stop playing 40k

[@drip671]

Hé is the best

[@Captain_MikeXII]

Can abaddon beat him

[@BoldSherlock]

His base is 25mm? WTF?

[@Dawthchling]

thats the base of the old model. the new one is 60mm

[@davidneo3940]

25mm base...wot? xD

[@Captain_MikeXII]

Ok but can guilliman beat him

[@richmcgee434]

Yeah, yeah, another expensive character model with rules written to boost sales. Yawn. Just remember not to accidentally paint any Nazi iconography on him, because GW is very much opposed to symbols of hate and they were just kidding and it's all a satire, honest. When are you going to address that debacle, AT? You were quick enough to talk about the company attacking online content creators.

[@carloschristanio4709]

Base is 25mm?