Hijab in Britain: Peter Hitchens and Nesrine Malik debate

A hijab-wearing young Muslim in Great British Bake Off, a model who covers her head in H&M's latest campaign - a melting of cultural identities or a worrying sign that Britain is slowly but unstoppably adapting to Islam?
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[@gavindajyajya]

How Hitchens remains sane is becoming a wonder to me.

[@flipperfish7]

He's class

[@lukeappleberry827]

You're wrong. He's lost his sanity and this video shows why.

[@pauljackson7901]

This isn't good form for him. He is making a dog whistle argument and he knows it.

[@motomartinski5672]

@@lukeappleberry827 Really? I'm a working class Scot and disagree with quite a lot of Hitchin's views - but seldom perceive them as insane or derived from irrationality. To me Hitchins here comes across as honestly and straightforwardly saying that -evidently in common with a majority of voters in England at least- (a) He dislikes Islam as an ideology and (b) He thinks that (for himself and those who share his perspective), so-called multiculturalism has eroded and divided, rather than improved, the previously more monocultured (i.e. traditional British) society. Contrary to the interviewer's remarks - UK P.M. Cameron himself ultimately came to the conclusion that too much emphasis on encouraging and facilitating "multiculturalism", had been a failed approach, which essentially encouraged cultural ghetto-ism and division. The security service' massive burden of monitoring Islamic fundamentalist loons as an example. And that, belatedly, more muscular encouragement of integration was required. Few people are aware that the Taliban were largely recruited from Pakistani Deobandis... The same "conservative" (i.e. fundamentalist) sect that dominates UK Muslim society. Though, naturally, the police and law in the UK have a far better grip on enforcement in comparison to Pakistan's SWAT. Only a deluded fool could fail to acknowledge that "conservative" Deobandi immigrants to the UK have, over the years expressed great opposition to certain British and modern western liberal values. They set up fundamentalist schools. They screamed and book-burned over Salman Rushdie and supported the fatwa threatening his life. They lobbied for the re-establishment of what amounts to blasphemy as a crime. (and have had to settle for the next best thing - restriction of freedom to express vehement dislike of any religion). They showed disgraceful disrespect for UK soldiers, including the dead. A -very significant- proportion of them - express homophobia and/or anti-semitism... and/or expressed sympathy for the motivations behind Islamic extremist terrorists, suicide bombers and such as the murderers of Charlie Hebdo staff... and so on, an so on... (ICM Research for the Channel 4 2016). "The notion of equality has, in this process, has also become transformed, from meaning the right to be treated the same despite one’s differences of culture, ethnicity or faith to meaning the right to be treated differently because of them. It is an odious shift. It’s time we challenged the new reactionary views of both pluralism and equality." , Kenan Malik 16 Oct 2014. Nesrine Malik, as a Sudanese follower of Islam, a religion created in the nearby Arabian Peninsula (where human rights, even in the 21st C are scorned and flouted with extreme cruelty )- who, like many others, only *chose* to move to nasty old Islamophobic, cruel colonialist Britain in adulthood - was probably not the best choice to represent the views of British citizens of colour and/or minority ethnicity in a superficial debate segment with Peter Hitchens.

[@lfc200506]

I don’t agree with him At all and his brother was one of those atheists who attacked Christianity

[@CanaryAlien]

Felt a bit sorry for Hitchens there, he's talking with people who are not listening!

[@987mattj]

Because he is talking but saying nothing. Can you explain what he had to say about Nadiya Hussain in this video? It's a dogwhistle discussion and Peter won't tie his colours to the mask and say he basically opposes the presence of any Muslim culture in Britain. She is trying to draw a clear argument from him and he is skirting around it talking about the mailability of cultural identity and other such things. If he wants to make that point then so be it, but instead he is using it as cover to avoid having to express his opinion and motivation regarding the actual point of discussion.

[@CanaryAlien]

@@987mattj My comment was three years old and I haven't watched the video since then , but I will say that I don't know who Nadiya Hussein is. Hitchens has long said that Britain is basically dead/ dying as a country/ culture- a position that I have reluctantly come to agree with. If he didn't say that here then you should read his book 'the Abolition of Britain'. You may not like Hitchens but it's worth reading. Also, why would you support Muslim culture in Britain. What aspect of the Muslim culture do you like? This is a civilization that was entirely alien to the country a generation ago.

[@987mattj]

​@@CanaryAlien I am familiar with Hitchens' usual points. He is a good writer but I am not very convinced by his points, and in my experience when he is pushed to explain how these relate to specific points then his arguments are in contradiction to the evidence. I have not read his books, but I have read his articles. What I do appreciate about his input normally is that he is forthright with his view and tries to form a coherent systematic view of the world. Because they are well presented, I will listen to what he has to say and take it seriously. However, in this video Hitchens does a very poor job, despite saying it is 'part of a slow but unstoppable adaptation of this country to Islam', Hitchens would not clarify at the start of the interview that he was opposed to the appearance of a hiqab in a baking program. Following this, when drawn on specifics about Muslim representation he reverts to his usual generalised narratives and will not attempt to defend his argument against specific criticisms. To a critical viewer this comes across as a sign he is unable to substantiate his argument, or really bite into (my own) status quo that hiqabs are just a trivial cultural feature of modern Britain and representation is normal and fine. You ask what I like about Muslim culture. In my experience of Muslim majority countries, walking in a city centre late at night without 80% of the people being drunk, with children and old people around, in a calm, relaxed atmosphere is something particularly pleasant. I also happen to think that Arab/Levantine food is among the best in the world.

[@CanaryAlien]

@@987mattj @Matt J falafals are quite nice, so i hope it's not awkward to mention the stoning of rape victims, the whipping of homosexuals, the persecution of non-muslims and the occassional decapitation for showing a picture of Mahoma. I agree about the lack of drunkenness but that's not a uniquely Muslim feature, most countries in the world are like that. I agree with you also that Hitchens is frequently a coward when he needs to openly follow his arguments through to their logical conclusions. He knows that he would be 'cancelled' very quickly though and I imagine he has a family to support.

[@sherbetdab1200]

The patience of political Islam is not to be underestimated. This is why Nesrine Malik is so smug. Three years on, Richard Fairbrass is held up as an example of the Great British Raj on Celebrity Gogglebox 😀

[@DaleRobby]

This lady is infuriating. Peter never says what she wants him to say so she shoves the words into his mouth anyway. Ugh

[@Alv11269]

DaleRobby rear She's no lady she's a woman. She hasn't ernt that right.

[@Alv11269]

DaleRobby rear She's no lady she's a woman. She hasn't ernt that right.

[@Kavafy]

But what was he actually saying?

[@thegreatonecometh200]

He WAS saying what she was accusing him of that's why he wouldn't give a straight answer as a true right winger would do when they're caught dog whistling bigots in his writings

[@arniearnie3963]

Hes a racist idiot & the female journalist tore him apart.

[@AB-uv4rf]

How patronizing was she?

[@karyne826]

A B ignorant more like !

[@millwallholdings]

And a short skirt showing all her legs off, i wonder if she had knickers on

[@sambriddon3271]

It's pretty apparent Peter is infinitely more intelligent.

[@abbeylane4552]

What a big headed, loud mouthed racist of a woman. The real, possibly only reason for wearing face-masks could be in the desert where sand-storms frequently happen. The opinionated, self-satisfied female projecting herself in this clip gave me a good laugh.

[@Nuron666]

Even though she sounded patronizing, she was right. People don't like this diverse society. We need to be honest about it. We need to say we hate diversity and we want to stop 3rd world migration, specially from the so called religion of peace.

[@nickbreen287]

So they just brought Peter on to tell him what he thinks and to ask him questions but not allow him to answer. Interesting format C4, but I don't think it will catch on somehow.

[@JigjagjugXyz]

+Nick Breen Already has caught on *sighs*

[@Tackytiger74]

@Nick Breen: They just did the same thing to Milo Yianopolis.....it makes them feel good.

[@papamegan8504]

Look up red ice good new utube

[@geoffmaputo4930]

Well, unfortunately it has caught on big time.

[@peterallebone6446]

Pity they couldn`t bring his late brother on - they might have regretted that?!

[@williamvorkosigan5151]

Nasreen claims she came to the UK against her will. Yet as an adult she seem in no hurry to leave, although she likes nothing about the England.

[@laradollar9944]

Hitchens must be getting tired of debates like this. It's like the mediator and the person he's debating are both interrogating him, playing good cop bad cop.

[@learner9384]

+Lara Dollar This man uses his column in the Daily Mail to express his views on Islam so it's only fair to be asked the basis of his objections on the subject he raised in his column but instead of giving answers, he started to dance around the question by talking about others.

[@Jonester76]

That's how the left operate. A Martian newly arrived on earth would be astonished if you told him one of those people was supposed to be neutral.

[@learner9384]

+Kieran Well obviously you did not read the countless columns he wrote about Islam or muslims. People in the studio also reserve the same right to express their views. Like it or not one does not have to live in islamic state to fight this man's ideology which is to deceive the public.

[@DexusDisaster]

OneGod4World How is Peter deceiving anyone here? He simply made a statement in his article that could be interpreted both ways depending on your personal projection. This is what we call a neutral statement. Stating that something would one day become the norm can imply anticipation for the implied notion and that's what the host here willfully and disingenuously neglects in order to further her narrative of pro-multiculturalism, trying to pin anything on Peter in order to silence him completely. She eagerly awaits him to say anything opposing her agenda and blatantly attempts to twist his words and force statements that were never said or in any way implied in a reductionist manner (e.g: "so what you're saying is...", "what you mean is..."). She tries and fails to inject hostility into this short debate by antagonizing Hitchens but he is in no way obliged to justify these views if he did indeed hold them.

[@learner9384]

+Kieran Well If Peter feels Islam will one day take over Britain then he needs to find out the reasons behind his fear without attacking a Muslim woman wearing her religious symbol in public. That is not the way to stop the spread of Islam. As a christian he needs to use his column to advertise Christianity to people whom he fears will one day flock to Islam. In my view implying people's religious symbols are a threat is disrespectful enough. If Peter complained about religious symbols worn by non-Muslims in his column, he would have been criticized exactly the same by those community, but I am sure Peter doesn't see those religions a threat yet. And by the way the fear of some individuals is sometimes justified considering the alarming numbers of Muslim converts these days.

[@starryian007]

Why do the politically correct find it necessary to put words into people's mouths?

[@normiehuwyteman9487]

"Your country and race are being destroyed, stop noticing it"

[@VanoArts]

race? you mean ethnicity.

[@VanoArts]

@The505Guys there are not different human races biologically there is only the human race

[@VanoArts]

@The505Guys no ..their ethnicities would mix

[@AC-mp7cx]

he can promote his culture without tearing other peoples down

[@this-is-not-just-a-pr-fail3263]

@The505Guys lol, the skin colour is no indicator of rest if genetics. They’re both from two separate genetic pools.

[@pabuttle]

I disagree with many of Peter Hitchen's views but I respect him a great deal. He's an honest, good man who sits on the polar opposite of my natural political leanings, but I always want to hear his view so that I can challenge my own. Good health and fortune Mr Hitchens!

[@emperorstevee]

More people should have this mindset, I have it, too.

[@reinforcedpenisstem]

Yeah - he's a good speaker which helps.

[@burtingtune]

I agree with most of Peter Hitchen's view but I respect your attitude a great deal. The world would be a far better place if those who held differing views were able to discuss them with each other with a true generosity of spirit.

[@chrismill9896]

Phil Buttle. Are you a liberal-thinking Liberal? Wonders will never cease.

[@TellyWatcher1997]

I am mesmerised by Peter H.........

[@joebailey4372]

How dare Peter not say what she wants him to say! How very dare he!

[@canadianmistake2640]

Finally someone who is not a Nazi

[@alb0zfinest]

He was actually dodging the point. Wasn’t willing to say if he was against or for.

[@mercenaryknight5419]

Bullshit, he focused on what matters.

[@robinhood5467]

What on earth is he thinking.. that we are in a free democratic country or something where free speech is allowed

[@sourcescience]

I enjoyed the bit where she constantly and rudely interrupted him and then whinged when he did the same to her.

[@ff-jv2ik]

Nesrine Malik seems to have a toxic attitude when participating in a discussion.

[@geoffmaputo4930]

@Kazemi Groove Not "seems to have" absolutely does have a toxic attitude

[@c.s.7097]

One word Typical

[@noelpucarua2843]

He never did say what was wrong about a woman wearing a hijab on television.

[@Myndir]

@@noelpucarua2843 What do you think is wrong about it?

[@noelpucarua2843]

@@Myndir Is there something wrong about it?

[@abbasabdolmajid5496]

ℰngland is entitled to engℒish culture. ℰvery country is entitled to its own specific culture.

[@cusmaancumar7356]

Who then entitled England to steal other nations' resources and cultures?

[@henlaaresquire9025]

@@cusmaancumar7356 Oh do shut up. Its a terrible argument. Imperialism and expantionism is a phenomenon that occurs across the world. Who entitled other nations to do that? Every nation is entitled to their own culture, people, and reasources.

[@rorus9530]

I think you would struggle find a country in the world which wasn’t once part of an empire that exploited the resources of other nations. Your argument is rather foolish.

[@93boxing81]

@@henlaaresquire9025 culture changes and never stays the same and foreign influences have influenced almost every country in the world. Complaining that Britain is being influenced by some foreign culture is therefore pathetic.

[@93boxing81]

Culture changes in every land based on foreign influence. India, middle east, south America,north America, central Asia and more are no exception.

[@FadGadget1]

Disgraceful behaviour from Nesrine. She peddled her agenda of victim politics.

[@Grounded4]

Wearing such foreign outfits in any country means you are either going to a fancy dress party or a tourist or defying any attempt to integrate.

[@4lugan]

They should go to the western world. The west doesn’t need these tourists. I have never seen someone in a fancy party wearing that. They don’t want to integrate. They want the benefits of the west without living like a western woman

[@WTFAnyNameWorks]

That's not what the west was saying in Qatar when they were asked to RESPECT the culture of the land... Hipocrisy is your thing anyways.

[@jcdenton631]

@@WTFAnyNameWorks those pride flag wearing weirdos are not on peter hitchen's side. These people want pride flags in Qatar and hijabs in England.

[@Alexander_Snowden]

​@@WTFAnyNameWorks the difference being that many outstanding aspects of Qatari culture and Wahabi Islam directly contravene common human values.

[@yougotsomemoneyformeboy5297]

@@WTFAnyNameWorksThe fact that you think human rights violations should be defended as part of Qatars culture says a lot about you as a person.

[@junglistmozart]

I absolutely embrace and enjoy the experience of the culture of any country that I visit. Why is it that it's such a crime to want to maintain English culture?

[@_Tp__]

how does someone wearing a headscarf on TV destroy British culture?

[@knight4395]

@@_Tp__ Because it is not British culture. It is a symbol of Islamic totalitarianism, which is an existential threat to not only British culture, but Britain itself.

[@_Tp__]

@@knight4395 explain how some person wearing some cloth on their head is a threat to "Britain itself"

[@junglistmozart]

@@_Tp__ there is literally no mention of headscarf-wearing or Britain, anywhere in my comment.

[@davidduxbury7530]

@@_Tp__ They say it's choice,but you know damn well the consequences if they don't,christ,it must be cosy where you live,grow up!

[@Phil_McAvity]

The hijab & burka makes me uncomfortable as I believe it has no place in the the Western world.

[@_Tp__]

poor you im sorry other people's clothes hurt your poor little feelings

[@Phil_McAvity]

@@_Tp__ thanks mate 👍

[@_Tp__]

@@Phil_McAvity my pleasure

[@HughJason]

The woman interrupts too much.

[@tkhurana]

HER SMUG SMILE IS UNBELIEVABLE

[@SwissCheese112]

Left are always smug when they can frame everything as racist and erase what you say

[@DrAdamAckerman]

She ripped him apart 🙂

[@tkhurana]

She just lied.

[@Sam-vp3pw]

No she just harassed him to say something she didn't like so she could say he's bad for not liking what she likes.

[@krissteele6867]

@@DrAdamAckerman you have low standards for 'being ripped apart'. The funniest part of the entire thing was when Hitchens said he didn't support multiculturism, and she replied 'oh, see, we are getting somewhere now'. As if Peter hadn't been saying the same thing for the last thirty years and it was some kind of revelation.

[@vapourmile]

She's just totally pissing me off. Peter has made his statements as matter-of-fact statements and defended them as such, and she keeps on digging and digging to try to find a way of accusing of implying something he hasn't implied. She keeps on trying to goad him into "giving his opinion" when really she means "I want you to say something I can portray as racist, becuase only then do I have a reason to be here, if you aren't racist I might as well have stayed at home". Nothing he has said or written at this point implies he has a problem with it, in fact what he implies is it's a fact he's accepted, if at least a little but reluctantly at first. So she hones in on that. She doesn't want his opinion. She only wants him to reveal just a hint of racism so she can condemn him for it. She defends people fof finding him racist when he hasn't said anything racist, she defends people for reading something into his work he didn't put in it, and demands her right to 'finish' meaning 'don't stop me while I'm having my moment accusing you of racism', even though he hasn't done or said anything racist. Question: "Does that language not sound alarmist". Answer: "Yes, emphatically, that language does NOT sound alarmist". It just sounds matter of fact. On the conrary, you're own language sounds alarmist, your own language is firing warning shots over somebody who hasn't voiced a word of threat. He's just said it's happening. If he's said "The weather says it will be sunny for the rest of the month", does that imply a warning? No. It implies a statement of fact and it's refreshing to see Peter Hitchens, of all people, simply stating the facts and not being emotional about it, contrary to her continued accusation. Then, after he makes a very clear statement about his commitemnt to cultural adaptation and change, she totally ignores it to try to backtrack to an earlier comment she can portray as racist. She accuses him of feeling uncomfortable about the hijab, even though nothing he's said really implies that he's done anything other than accept it. Nevertheless Peter makes a completely valid point early on that what SHE is implying is that it is not OK to have anything but the opinion she thinks you should have about it. And it's wrong to allow her to close on that stupid fig leaf comment, that obviously is neither what he said nor even what he implied. It's like watching somebody fishing for the bogeyman, not finding it, but pretending she has nonetheless. I don't even like Peter Hitchens, but I've never seen him more calm and reasonable than he was on this occasion and all he said in his own defence was correct, he hadn't said or implied any of the things she said he did. It's literally a repeition of the witch trials where confessions are either forced out of people or accusations are made and then carried without a fair hearing or any sense of justice. She thinks she's scored points, but she hasn't. Peter Hitchens, he of all people, this time came out by far the better and far and away the most honest of the two guests.

[@FerdBrowne]

horrible interview. that smug expression on her face....ugh

[@RiksFunStuff]

-_- "I'm saying this". "No what you're really saying is this" "No I'm saying what I am saying" "No you're not you're saying this" "..........."

[@RiksFunStuff]

+Haniya Khalid What was incoherent about it? He's simply saying Britain has changed and is going towards a more Islamic society based on the fact that a well known fashion outlet has hired a model that wears the hijab which is contested even in Islamic societies. This is a very different society than the British Christian society which existed not so long ago. She asserted that he was trying to make a negative point against Muslims and also brought up race. Which both have nothing to do with the discussion. The question he was trying to get people to think about is, is the path towards Islam that Britain is taking the right one? It's up to people to make up their own minds about that. Unfortunately he wasn't able to get that point across because she had already made up her mind about what he was saying and what his agenda was without listening to him. Note she said "The motif of the hijab makes people like Peter uncomfortable because it implies that the sort of rosy white homogenous culture of British sociey is now on the wane" Did Peter once say he finds it uncomfortable or even mention rosy white homogenous culture? That was all from her. It's how she has characterized his argument in her head. Because she simply didn't listen to him. If you can find anything negative about Islam in what he was saying then fair enough. But you won't because he didn't.

[@LastNickLeft]

+Haniya Khalid And why not? This is Europe. Europe with Christian culture.

[@stleonards1066]

Classic SJW argment, she'd already decided he could only have an opinion bestowed upon him due to being a white male. Absolutely toxic ideology

[@CHRISDABAHIA]

Remarkable foreshadowing of the infamous Cathy Newman interview with Jordan Peterson....

[@michelleshelly6320]

@Chris Owens I just watched the video you recommended and I'm glad I did! thanks for mentioning it, totally worthwhile looking into it :)

Horrible smarmy smug obnoxious woman. Why should we destroy our extant culture so others can take over? Why should we be ashamed of what British culture is or was? How dare you criticise someone for liking what made their country interesting and different from other countries. Why should we not claim to want a culture of our own. What she is saying is that it's ok for our culture to be destroyed at the expense of others. Ultimately she is stating that our culture is valueless and it should be ok for it be erased or written over like a palimpsest by cultures or peoples foreign to here. Because we once had an Empire should we now obsequiously accede to our own slow and grinding genetic eradication as a people? Whether she has the intellect, insight, courage or decency to admit it or not (all of which I doubt she has) the fact is that it is clearly the de facto diminution of the indigenous population via immigration and reproduction. Sorry but I like British culture and it's people and it's not shameful to want our country to be populated by the predominantly indigenous where they are in their own capital city now a minority. It's because we are so pleasant as a people that this has gone so far so quickly. Were this happening elsewhere there would be far more virulent and direct responses to it. What's wrong with having our culture be the dominant culture of our society? We shouldn't be criticised for wanting our home to be our home and being upset that it's being eradicated. I should apologise for caring about my home and my people now I suppose, and hang myself for being a fascist because I hate all people other than my own. I wouldn't walk into someone else's home and tell them in a few short days exactly what I wanted and how things would be done. It's appallingly rude behaviour and without the slightest hint of irony I say it is distinctly un-British.

[@chrisbennett606]

Bobbly Wobbly shouldn't you want the same for aboriginal Australia ,First Nation Canada ,or Native American America too Let's be fair

[@Tonedefdom]

@@chrisbennett606 where did he say he doesn't?

[@davidgarrett235]

Good point well made. You have the right to make your point and express your feelings and that is the difference between our free thinking and generally free society.

[@davidgarrett235]

@@chrisbennett606 Completely off point! We have been invaded and conquered by the vikings, Romans and the French as have many over nations been invaded and conquered. This is completely different: People move here to improve their lives and are welcomed and supported. Unfortunately the immigrants, asylum seekers are not satisfied with their new improved situation they want to destroy the culture that welcomed them in and gave them sanctuary from the financial, religious or moral oppression of their home country. Thanks guys!

[@cusmaancumar7356]

@Kazemi Groove Because of the attire of Muslim girls attending that C of E school, it was " being sold "! What a naive, puerile comment. Please reflect.

[@AColonDashSix]

“We’ve finally got something out of Peter” No miss, his position was clear from his first statement. We did however get something substantial out of you. When you describe your position as essentially opposing the “rosy white racial homogeneity” of Britain your mask slips and we see that in fact you view religious expression as a vehicle that drives racial supremacy. That is what Peter is afraid of. Sanitizing a symbol of religious oppression doesn’t make it lose its meaning and rational people don’t like the idea of a religious state regardless of whether it starts in government or on the streets. We have freedom of religion and also freedom FROM religion. Hitchens is pointing out that an alarming number of people are attempting to erode the right to the latter.

[@_Tp__]

he's literally advocating for a religious state that is controlled by the Christian Church what are you on about? Also what you said makes no sense

[@davidduxbury7530]

@@_Tp__ As Peter says it's all there if you'd bother to read and listen,Malik is typical of the middle class Guardianista's who love preaching as long as it doesn't affect them in any way,I agreed with her piece about the problem she had getting citizenship,but for many year's it's probably been overwhelmed and so people are having to seek desperate mean's to get here.

[@davidduxbury7530]

As if there's something wrong with our country to start with,the Japanese,South Korean's etc have kept their cultures homogenised and they are happy to do so.

[@_Tp__]

@@davidduxbury7530 idk bout that one

[@_Tp__]

@@davidduxbury7530 read and listen to what? He says literally nothing but posh, upper class waffle.

[@cooperarthur3]

"Finally we've got something out of Peter"In other words, you found out he prefers monoculture to multiculture, a view he's expressed many times in his columns.Well Done.

[@chrisbennett606]

Bobishere what's wrong with monoculture

[@cusmaancumar7356]

He is just wistfully dreaming of England in the 1880s. Will never come back.

[@mumyoullknowme4644]

@@cusmaancumar7356 Never say never.

[@cusmaancumar7356]

@@mumyoullknowme4644 too late. The whole fabric of the societies in North America and that of some European countries including England, Scotland and Wales have been changing in the last 3 decades. Multiracial, multicultural and multiethnic.

[@sisiphas]

Too many idiots confuse culture and race. He has never said he dislikes a multiracial society. The racists are those who oppose him

[@MrCutthroatish]

Wretched treatment and dishonest portrayal of peter's views. For the record I am a lefty south asian. Ms. Malik should be ashamed. If my culture says its ok to torture kittens and rape all elderly men should this culture be free of criticism? Should there not be some way to normatively discuss the morality of various cultures insofar as they are different?

[@nastyalfred]

beeney2 speaking about white women, you should have a look on Home Office stats on domestic violence where there are more white women being beaten to death and abused by their white British partners. There are more white women being cared for in mental health hospitals because they were failed by their family and society.

[@defzxcv]

That gloating look on her face as she welcomes the death of British culture gives me the willies.

[@jimharry8080]

What exactly in your eyes is "British culture" invasion? Murder? monarchy? genocide? Explain please

[@danw1594]

​@@jimharry8080 Manners, politeness, Christian moral values, freedom of speech, liberty, traditional British architecture... etc.

[@JohnCenaFan6298]

@@jimharry8080 well it's not Islamic, and not anti WESTERN civilization which includes the roman empire, Christianity and the monarchy as mentioned

[@MrMellones]

Why the mediator is not impartial?

[@MegaAslan10]

What a one sided interview!!!! The opponent acts like the moderator/interviewer here. "Finally WEVE!!! got something out of him." She says. Surely Channel 4 can do better than this drivel?

[@cusmaancumar7356]

@Kazemi Groove say the ignorant imbecile racist shouts that you're ashamed/afraid to say.

[@superbia75es]

Rude...the usual interrupting...horrible smirking arrogance. She looks very pleased with herself.

[@monkmonk40]

Nesrine Malik you might try and bring some of England to the Sudan rather than bring the Sudan to England. On second thought Perhaps your love of wild hair and short skirts might be a drawback in the Sudan.

[@jasmitsirah]

M a r k M o n k l well said

[@karyne826]

M a r k M o n k it’d be a burka for her 👀

[@denz8261]

to be fair the Sudanese are fond of wild hair. They weren't called Fuzzy Wuzzies for nothing

[@lamueldagon7618]

Your a dickhead

[@chrise2484]

I think you all need to grow up and stop abusing others. Recently two way interviews are put together to create conflict and rarely inform. The so called presenters used to be there to assist the argument inform viewers. Nowadays they mostly put the establishment left wing pc type view. No good trying to argue logically with someone who has a fundamentalist point of view or with someone who disrespects you or your views. Thats a waste of ones life and breath and makes poor tv.

[@redemptionaxe]

With Peter Hitchens on this all the way

[@bruce8359]

its because the real brits dont want england to look like an asian country

[@reinforcedpenisstem]

He was being pretty kind to her.

[@jsilkcut]

Like a lot of people I also miss the England I knew....

[@cusmaancumar7356]

Just leave if you miss the White England you knew.

[@cusmaancumar7356]

@Y2JHBK6 I am here for good and not moaning in a racist drivel. White England is gone the way Aboriginal Australia had transformed. Get over it.

[@olbeef250]

@@cusmaancumar7356 Except one has improved dramatically and one has degraded

[@cusmaancumar7356]

@@olbeef250 social mobility. Racists should degrade into oblivion.

[@cusmaancumar7356]

@NEUTERLibs your demographic decline and my flourishing.

[@sirtinley-knot2944]

oh wow... I don't care what colour someone's skin is. someone in this debate needs to learn a little decency. that self satisfied, condescending, smug smirk made me have to look away 😡

[@nigels9500]

Brilliant peter. Saying what the majority think but dare to not say 👏

[@connorglaze538]

The majority of people old enough to be named Nigel, maybe

[@4lugan]

Why don’t you say it?

[@TheAwesomeGingerGuy]

What did he say? He literally said nothing - his point was that her attack on him was over nothing.

[@maskedmarvyl4774]

I love how she continually talks over Peter Hitchens when she asks him a challenging question and when she starts to hear an answer she doesn't like, refuses to allow him to finish. I also love how the moderator abdicated his responsibility and never stepped in once to admonish her to allow Peter to finish.

[@songsmith31a]

That;'s Channel 4 for you.

[@joem7922]

First shot of her as soon as he talks is her eyes rolling. Despise these morons who just speak their ideologies and opinions and then immediately pull the shutters down and refuse to listen to anything

[@hunchanchoc8418]

It is exactly such a worrying sign. Our bending over backwards to be tolerant and self-righteously accommodating is exploited as a weakness by Islam. Nesrine Malik had better get used to covering her big hair up and not being allowed to wear a skirt higher than the ankles, cos it's coming.

[@ragnardanneskjold7259]

I'm not sure why they invited him on the show since they clearly have no interest in hearing what he has to say.

[@hateLewis09]

No one ever asked the British people if they wanted Islam in their country

[@Timeone123.]

You would not be wearing your yellow out fit if uk was under sharia law.

[@RavenShinyThings]

Multiculturalism is a weapon always has been Blair wanted to use it and did.

[@milels6917]

Thanks Peter for taking sense again you are standing up for Christian again 🌹✝️

[@uhuru1713]

His views are not Christian on any level..he does not speak for Christ as if Christ does not love Muslims..Christ message is not this..this is Anti-Christ.

[@vanguard4065]

PETER IS A LOVELY MAN AND MY HERO

[@MultiSindog]

So frustrating. Let him speak!

[@AGNYC]

yes let the racist bigot speak

[@MrNickcafc]

wearing a Hijab is akin to wearing a clown costume. It looks ridiculous.

[@niitsukid]

Hitchens is the man

[@thefalcon256]

The Left in this argument are saying, we should accept the hijab as part of the celebration of the Islamic faith and the changing cultural face of Britain. However the hypocrisy is that had it been a Christian displaying and celebrating her Christian faith, the Left would have either ignored her or ridiculed and belittled her, depending on her skin colour of course. It's the double standards and the unequal treatment depending on skin colour and religion, that really winds everyone up I think.

[@93boxing81]

Christian women wore the headscarf long time ago. Stop blaming others for the destruction of christianity. How many of you have gone to the church regularly? Not one Muslim I met ever wanted to come here and destroy christianity. You destroyed it by not going church.

[@Myndir]

@@93boxing81 You are the only one suggesting that we should blame Muslims. Why is that?

[@93boxing81]

@@Myndir I am a Muslim I am not blaiming muslims. How is it the muslims fault? I told people to stop blaming others for the destruction of christianity.

[@MarinaUganda]

Because you can't compare the power relations between the two. Obviously praising Christianity in a Christian country is not controversial.

[@andrewdoyle8601]

I was wholeheartedly entrenched in this debate with Mr Hitchens, the shear amount of abuse and bias he received was uncalled for and unneeded. Yes - Multiculturalism is a bad thing, it takes two or more perfectly fine cultures and dilutes the two.

[@SummeRain783]

Do you want to live in a closet?

[@jordantaylor716]

@@SummeRain783 No, just separately to you. It's easy to promote equality and integration when you're bottom of the barrel.

[@London-zx6yk]

I am citizen of this beautiful country and I love their British values and it is my obligati

[@Niko-rc6jy]

She speaks with fork tongue! It’s a sad day when you can’t defend Britain’s culture for being branded a racist. Keep fighting against this lunacy Peter, there are tens of millions in the uk who share your views

[@davedavey5]

I’m with peter on this

[@JFNH]

Based Hitchens

[@SagaciousFrank]

And another thing Ms Malik (if you're reading), oh and to the 'presenter' bloke - Christianity isn't a friggin race, it's a religion, just like Islam. Hitchens is a Christian Anglican, and like other Christians in this country, both white, black, and Asian, he is sad to see the decline of Christianity and rise of Islam in a country which was historically shaped in no small part due to, yes, you guessed it, Christianity. In summary, it is not a race argument you idiots but a cultural one.

[@jowest5163]

if she loves it so much, why aint she got hers on?

[@tommyjd12345]

"I'm really saying what I'm really saying" I love this for many reasons!

[@songsmith31a]

The theme seems to be that the UK is expected to accept impositions in her social, historical and religious systems that would not be tolerated elsewhere, e.g. try Sudan for a start.

[@mpld1979]

Peter Hitchens always has an interesting perspective on life

[@mickredmond9083]

"Let me finish " says she and she the one who interuppted first. Ignoramus.

[@williamvorkosigan5151]

So, there we have it, Nasreen. "So, What you're saying is....". Did Jordan Peterson and Kathy Newman not teach Nasreen nothing? Nasreen despises the UK and UK culture and believes this a virtue.

[@truthfilter]

why is it that their offence to our criticism of bad ideas is taken seriously but our offence is simply labelled racist or some kind of "phobia"

[@kevinwhelan8930]

There's a reason John Cooper Clarke told the Guardian that Peter Hitchens was the person he most admired: "He plows a lonely furrow" wrote the great Bard of Salford. Hitchens is our generation's Orwell; he has real guts, integrity, and heart; and that he's a man of faith, a pesky Christian public intellectual in these often violently anti-faith times...well, I rest my case. Keep up the good work, Peter.

[@mickeyhynes]

I disagree with almost everything Peter says, but I'm glad that someone can put forward opinions outside the politically correct line with some degree of poise and thought.

[@martthesling]

Saying that race and culture are synonyms is basically a Nazi argument. Race and culture are two different things and to think that they are the same is very disturbing.

[@executionersmough6304]

martthesling Race and Culture have connections but they are not the same.

[@stevenwilliambaylessparks3730]

Where is her veil?

[@unclejoe724]

I loved the old British culture. I hope we can regain some as too much has been vilified by over sensitive, politically correct fools. We used to have such standing in the world but at the moment we are a laughing stock. We can be great again... But first we must be Britain!

[@spinynorman8217]

'I'm really saying what I'm really saying...' excellent line Peter. A chilling lack of respect for indigenous culture of UK from the lady...double standards at work?

[@eddiecrowley3261]

Not all cultures are equal. Dopey politics and stifling religions affect the values, attitudes and behaviours of the people who live beneath them. I suspect it is a major reason why people move here - to get away from them. Hitchens laments that our culture has crumbled and he does not want to see it replaced with Islam. Women can wear what they like as long it is not what someone else insists upon. That the hijab is becoming commonplace is a sign of creeping Islamisation. People who think we should embrace it are asking for Sharia.

[@demoncard1180]

The only thing you're right about is dopey politics. Iranians moved here decades ago after we deposed their Shah. Some of them are still coming here, because the ayatollah is a pretty mean spirited guy. If women can wear what they like so long as it's not what someone else insists upon, they should be allowed to wear their hijabs against your wishes. What you're likely too old to realise, is that this is a media problem, not a people problem. People don't naturally want to adopt other cultures. At most, they want to sample their food, and that sort of culinary conquest is extremely British. What isn't, is a disproportionate media focus on minorities. Most people are not gay. Most people do not belong to ethnic minorities. It should not be center stage on principle, because to do so encourages not only your sort, who being of ailing mind and sound body, are only too keen to then place the blame at the feet of people trying to live their lives, but also extremists on the other end, painting the "west" as an enemy.

[@elenafoleyfoley168]

That woman is extremely rude, she kept interrupting Peter Hitchens, and talked quite a bit of nonsense there. Well said Peter 💪🏻💪🏻

[@roughdraught153]

'I'm really saying what I'm really saying!' LOL

[@Make_Boxing_Great_Again]

The same or arguably more effort should be made to removing Islam as Christianity. Unfortunately the opposite is happening. I don’t consider my opinion as racist because religion is not a race, it’s just a way of thinking. Both Religions are problematic but Islam is just objectively more problematic.

[@littlered4099]

nesrine malik bigotry and smugness are quite something

[@trousersnake1841]

Geez i miss his brother, would have torn that hateful thing apart..

[@samsonfisher4578]

I was really looking forward to hearing the point Hitchens was making but then he was interrupted. "you've had your say in this piece" an upsetting display of personal obliviousness and arrogance.

[@davidmcintyre2260]

invite peter on and then don't let him put more than 3 sentences together.

[@cusmaancumar7356]

Rubbish. He said more than the lady. He couldnt answer her question?

[@cusmaancumar7356]

@Kazemi Groove listen again with an unbiased mentality.

[@Tackytiger74]

Not often that Peter Hitchens struggles to get his view across. All he had to say is that he is against high profile hijab wearers because the hijab represent the subjugation of women and that is at odds with British values..... Job done!

[@Tackytiger74]

+homer blair Thanks - I'm sure the Guardian would ban me. Also I would have loved to have heard the non-hijab wearing Nesrine Malik argue against that......

[@SuperMan-xf1eg]

Tackytiger74 But he wasn't talking about whether he agrees or disagrees with high-profile hijab wearers wearing a hijab. He was talking about the growth of Islam and his prediction that Britain will (culturally) adapt to Islam in the future

[@Tackytiger74]

@Super Man: It amounts to the same thing....Hijab getting a higher profile is part of the creeping islamisation of the west....

[@SmippeHyrst]

That is not what Hitchens was trying to say. His view is that the country he knew and loved is now culturally dead & gone, and he therefore has no solutions. He is merely documenting that on-going slow death as a curious and mournful obituarist.

[@chrisbennett606]

Tackytiger74 good point

[@BobJones-zz9fv]

Its scary how right PH is and was at the time.... I remember watching this debate at the time and now its all coming true

[@benjaminzephaniah5729]

as an atheist who is an ally of the muslim community against islamophobia there is nothing wrong with women wearing the hijab. in fact as an imam told me the hijab is actually a symbol of women's empowerment. i welcome diversity, muslims have contributed so much to britain, immigrants built our NHS and have improved our culture its the bigots like peter hitchens we need to deport. no borders, no nations

[@Barlofontain]

+homer blair Hitchens is a devout Catholic

[@Barlofontain]

+homer blair and also female... he isn't a woman either

[@Barlofontain]

+homer blair His mother could have been a Seventh Day Hoppist, it doesn't change the fact that, HE is a devout and practicing Catholic, so your claim that he is Jewish is wrong

[@mrwarlock5070]

+John Burns, was this Imam female? If not then how can you take his word on what is or is not a symbol of female empowerment? Islam is a blight on any nation, hell its a blight on humanity...its an outdated Ideology several hundred years behind the rest of the world in its thinking that does oppress women - That is evident even just from the facebook group, 'my stealthy freedom' started by Iranian women who do not want to wear any form of head covering, and who are forced to under the tight islamic laws in Iran, in fact if they are caught not wearing one, then they receive punishment, sometimes quite severe punishment, but then under Islamic law beating women is ok anyway, as is the death penalty for homosexuals or Apostates. I could go on about the many negatives of Islam, but I would be here all day.....Islam works fine in any Islamic nation on the planet, but thats where it should stay, as it is not compatible with western values. Maybe you should should read this, it might give an insight into the UK's future if leftie morons with open borders ideas ever get back into power...... www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6607/sweden-migrants-fear

[@Tackytiger74]

+Justin Case Superb - Well said!

[@suroj]

The host always saves the lady before she gets a serious HItch-Slap

[@oshadhaful]

Umm this isn’t the brother who gives hitch slaps tho 🤣

[@intalmdr4627]

She whooped his behind 😂

[@santallum]

islam brings unpleasant baggage with it .... as well you know nesrine and many of us simply don't want it here we have our own culture and feel that it has already been compromised enough we should all be more honest and up front about that strap on a pair peter hitchens and just say it

[@jtonna1624]

"Nasrine - I am really saying what I'm really saying"

[@Erectus666]

Dont you just love when someone tells you what you are actually saying..?

[@Jackwhumate]

I agree with Peter for once, this country is called Britain, so we would like the large majority of it to stay english/brittish, culture and beliefs, other cultures from other countries shouldn’t be trying to come here and change our ways, whether people think thats racist or not is irrelevant… the english people dont have a problem with other cultures coming to Britain and adapt to our ways, but when you try to change our ways thats when there is a problem, because the reality of this all is simple, if you dont like the way we run our country then go back to your own. It really is that simple.

[@_Tp__]

"this country is called Britain"

[@_Tp__]

How is someone's personally choosing to wear a headscarf "trying to come here to change our ways". Also people can be born here and choose to wear hijab and not "come here" from the foreign countries you seem to dislike so much.

[@johnpanter9714]

Smirking conniving rude interrupting woman. Typical im afraid.

[@primafacie6442]

That lady in the yellow dress should try living under ☪️ and see if she doesn’t then agree with Peter.

[@grimawormtongue1949]

3:43 "assumes that this is something that we don't want to happen" - damn right. Hitchens should have just said "Yes, I lament that it is happening".

[@Robert_Lindsay]

Interviewer (weakly interjecting) 'Can I butt in...?' No wait, the POFH (Person of Fuzzy Hair) hasn't finished grilling Peter Hitchens yet.

[@allanlewis2989]

Peter is close. While Islam has a protected status, there is another "religion" of *chosen people* who are even more protected... Just name him.

[@adamh3212]

+Allan Lewis SHUT IT DOWN

[@allanlewis2989]

+Allan Lewis Here's a clue: Channel 4 is owned by them

[@allanlewis2989]

+Yisrael bar Avraham Two words: Bobby Fischer (there's still time)

[@BluescreenBandit]

+Allan Lewis The Finns, I knew it!

[@allanlewis2989]

+homer blair en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes

[@arampianist]

"So what you're saying" should be a drinking game

[@Phoenix1664]

What I take from Peter saying he would have preferred less multiculturalism is basically I liked the world as it was, but I understand the world isn't all about me. Isn't that how everyone feels about other cultures until they get used to them? We are tribal animals after all. My grandmother preferred the world when it was custom for men to dock their caps when she was around, say "ma'am", and open a door so she could pass through. And she wasn't keen on the next young generation of men that displayed less respect towards women (in her view). She's not a sexist. It's called change. She knew the world was not all about her. Tradition vs change, that's what this is about. And there is no right or wrong answer, it's an opinion.

[@johnnymarshall5828]

this woman is so patronising,she feels she is right no matter what anybody say's,you can see it written in her whole demeanour

[@waynesidler4582]

Rosey white homogenous culture, what do you think the reaction would be if say Peter Hitchens said something along those lines about her culture

[@azarulahmed789]

I'm a British Muslim and I disagree with this woman. This is an ethnic English country with Christianity as its core belief. Unfortunately, the political class are peddling this idea of multiculturalism and it ISN'T right! The moment the ethnic English feel that their country is being diluted THERE WILL BE A BACKLASH and all the minorities WILL suffer - the political classes will remain in their mansions and for them life will go on as normal. Multiculturalism is an idea established apparently to establish minorities comfortably into British society, ironically it will be the reason for the growth and preference for right wing and far right politics in this country and the beginning of the end of the the rights of minorities in this country. I've lived in several countries throughout the Middle East and Asia, and every country discriminates in favour of its OWN culture, traditions and heritage - why should Britain be any different? It shouldn't. In China, the Chinese put their culture and traditions before that of others, India is the same and so too is EVERY other country in the world. When we have a more British country, ironically there'll be more peace and more tolerance of other cultures because people won't feel like their own identity is being threatened. I think it's terrible what is happening. Btw, I am NOT a coconut. I'm deeply proud of my Muslim and Islamic roots and I am consistent in all my arguments - like I don't believe other cultures should impose upon British culture, I also believe western culture shouldn't impose itself upon muslim countries either, and I speak out against that too. When western countries and cultures start to impose itself on Arab countries whether militarily or CULTURALLY We find the majority of Arabs don't like it and that's when the politically more Islamic groups start to get STRONGER - as a result of foreign interference!! We should just leave each others cultures ALONE! Britain and the British identity should be left alone!! When this happens there'll be more peace for everyone!! The problem is the liberal elite governing this country who are making it worse for everyone- including [and ironically] the minorities of this country too!

[@jamesmc1272]

Mayor of London - Muslim Mayor of Birmingham - Muslim Mayor of Harrow - Muslim Mayor of Blackburn - Muslim Mayor of Sheffield - Muslim Mayor of Oxford - Muslim Mayor of Luton - Muslim Mayor of Oldham - Muslim Mayor of Rochdale - Muslim Mayor of Solihull - Muslim Mayor of Northampton - Muslim Mayor of Brighton - Muslim Mayor of Leicester - Muslim Mayor of Camden - Muslim Mayor of Burnley - Muslim Mayor of Tameside - Muslim Over 3,000 mosques. 78% of Muslim women are not available for work, and are claiming benefits/housing. 63% of Muslim men don't work. All this "achieved" by just 4 million Muslims in a UK population of 67 million diverse people.

[@brysonstevens1431]

Is this what America will be like in 20 yrs?

[@Success4u247]

When ISLAM takes over (and it will) the first to be rounded up will be your one with her smirk , and her rainbow flag carriers,

[@susannamarker2582]

I don't watch Channel 4 news out of general principle. Channel 4 News tells you its opinion while they're reading you the news.

[@Misierbobo]

The lady is a really poor debater. She didn't listen to a word of what her opponent said and kept making baseless inferences which suited her agenda.