HISTORY Of AVALON HILL 1971-1977 / The Story Of The AVALON HILL GAME COMPANY Part 3

[@tvogel1810]

I spent several hundred dollars on ASL - in the 80's. A lot for a teenager.

[@LegendaryTactics]

I'm sure you got your money's worth!

[@Mariner311]

Seeing the comments of others - it takes me back down the Rabbit Hole - I inherited my older brother's PanzerBlitz game in 1975 (I was in junior high), and then got Squad Leader when it came out in 1977 - I used to play with a couple of neighbors; games that would last hours or maybe days. My gaming life went on the backburner mid-high school when I found girls and working as a stage-hand... THEN the old Harpoon came into my life in college via a family friend (US Naval Officer) - and again in 1986 when I was in school as a US Naval Aircrewman - Aviation Anti-Submarine Warfare Operator - there were a dozen of us who would gather in three different barracks rooms (Red, Blue, and Observer/Judge) and play ASW games using a 4x8 sheet of plywood for our map-board as we charted positions, contacts, etc - again, games that could last hours and sometimes a weekend. Ten Years later - my favorite was Harpoon on the PC - which we actually used for training scenarios. I NEVER got into the vapid shoot-em-up games - still like sitting and THINKING. Thanks for the Memories.

[@whiskey_tango_foxtrot__]

The great thing about these games is that you really learned history and geography in a very fun wsy.

[@LegendaryTactics]

That was what makes them so fascinating - being able to "experience" things instead of just reading about them

[@MrPigfarmer23]

so many weekends of my life on these games, Luftwaffe, Panzerblitz, wooden ships & iron men, diplomacy, Arab-Israeli wars and squad leader. So many fantastic memories, thanks for the great vid

[@LegendaryTactics]

You're welcome! Thanks for watching! Which one, if you were going to a desert island, would you bring if you could only bring one?

[@TheByteknight]

Very nostalgic romp for me. Squad Leader blew my 14 year old mind in 1981..

[@LegendaryTactics]

Ha ha, cool! It is still a great game by any standard

[@pm71241]

Thank you. This series is an immensely valuable contribution to the hobby.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Thank you for the kind words, and for watching!

[@charlesharris9965]

I used to have the original purple box Squad Leader. In fact, I was involved in a pre-release play test while still in high school. I was playing the Germans versus Russians in The Guards Counterattack. The game went down to the final turn and all that I had to do to win was send my last squad across the street into the victory building. However, the Russians had a 50cal positioned at one end of the street ready to cut my squad down as soon as they stepped into the street. At that point I failed my personal morale check and conceded to the Russian player saying "good game, you win ". The Avalon Hill reps just stared at each other with amazement. I found out later that they knew that they had a hit on their hands at this point. They wrote about the incident in The General.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Wow, great story!

[@RayLovesToMakeMusic]

I, too, had the purple box version. I got it as a pre-release copy for writing the feature article game review for Fire & Movement magazine #9.

[@robertmoffitt1336]

I was 11 years old in 1977, and had a paper route, so money to spend, when I discovered Avalon Hill. Been a fan ever since. 🍻

[@LegendaryTactics]

Well, now I know where all your paper route money went!

[@robertmoffitt1336]

@@LegendaryTactics Yep 😄, I subscribed to The General shortly after and Avalon Hill was a big part of my life growing up. I liked Alan R. Moon's "The Asylum" column in The General, my favorite next to the "Series Replay" in each edition.

[@RiccardoMasiniWLOG]

I didn't know the "Liverpool Attack" story on Diplomacy, but i can personally confirm through my family history that things like that happened all the time. My father is the translator for the first Italian edition of the game in the early 1980s and one day he accidentally forgot the end date for the transmissions of his orders in a play-by-mail game. He was playing Turkey and had to disband a fleet after having lost a Center, so he rushed to the post office and dictated the following telegram to the game master: "Eliminate Fleet in the Black Sea". Considering that this was the high point of Cold War and Italy had just gone through a wave of internal terrorism in the last years, the post office clerk refused to send it and was about to call the police! Great game, but more than a classic: a legend.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Ha ha, that's an amazing story!

[@Phalanx11]

Made me sad those days are over. I went on to exclusively play computer games for 30 years but have recently started playing Fortress Europa Compass Games enhanced version with a friend. I find it more fullfilling than computer games. The tactile feel of the game and pitting your wits against your friends is much more interesting than a cold computer game.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Yes, it really is an experience. Board gaming has been rediscovered in recent years, with some excellent games coming out, but it would be nice if the older games were also given some exposure.

[@randallturner9094]

I just started watching this video, and I got goosebumps. Luftwaffe, lol. Ta-152, wtf is that? I’m wondering if we didn’t play every single one of these, or close, anyway. Let’s see… 🙃

[@thomaspierce3650]

I totally agree with you. I was 11 when I got my first AH game ' Waterloo ', now it's 50 years later and I still prefer the old style games.

[@bencrowbeardfletton9510]

Thank you for these awesome videos. Perfectly presented and bought back so many memories. I can't believe how many of these games my friend and I owned during the 80's and 90's - found myself constantly thinking - had that.....had that.....had that!. Unfortunately life changes means I only have one AH game left! Statis Pro Baseball. Great times with great games.

[@andreford3197]

I was saying the same thing - had this and that. Have two left of my collection my first purchase, Rise and Decline of the Third Reich (1974) and Air Assault on Crete/Invasion of Malta

[@LegendaryTactics]

Well, at least you hung on to a good one! Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@LegendaryTactics]

Nice! Have you tried No Retreat 2 from GMT? It has an homage/remake of Crete

[@andreford3197]

@@LegendaryTactics Have not tried that one but from what seen of it, it looks pretty good.

[@billmasters385]

Even though computer games have their own dominance over the field, to this day, I still enjoy the look, feel and soul of an AH wargame. The difference between a book and a Kindle no doubt. One has a tactile feel and solidity, while the other is just words on a screen. The only real problem still boils down to needing group enthusiasm to play a wargame. The only way a publisher could survive these days would be to have a group and solo option on every game. Without exception.

[@pm71241]

Yeah... I feel lucky to currently be playing a live game of Empires in Arms

[@LegendaryTactics]

Nice! Maybe let your opponent win the first game so they'll be excited to play again and again in the future!

[@LegendaryTactics]

Yes, at least a solo option! That seems to be mandatory these days. And I like the word 'soul' to describe cardboard vs digital.

[@billmasters385]

@@LegendaryTactics By the way, forgive my ignorance of all of your videos, but have you ever covered the non-AH Panzerblitz: Hill of Death? Written and produced in 2009 as an apparent homage?

[@thomaspierce3650]

You are so right . . . my first AH game was ' Waterloo ' in 1972.

[@StevenPLegere]

The first Avalon Hill game I ever played was Luftwaffe. That was as a 10-year-old in the early '80s my best friend and I spent months figuring out how to play it...

[@LegendaryTactics]

Ha ha, hope the process of learning it was as much fun as the game was!

[@StevenPLegere]

@@LegendaryTactics lol it was a little frustrating once we got it down though we played it probably a dozen times switching sides.

[@markc8401]

An absolutely brilliant production about the history of AH. Squad Leader! Wow. I'm an ASL player now, but SL started it all and took me down a major rabbit hole. This video is an exciting nostalgia trip that takes me back in time to the glory days of the war gaming genre. Also very interesting is the Gary Gygax rejection - as an AD&D player, this could have had huge implications at the time for that game with the backing of AH. Thank you for illustrating AH evolution in an interesting format. Cheers!

[@LegendaryTactics]

You're welcome, and thanks for watching! Hopefully you've also had a chance to check out Parts 1 & 2. Part 4 is on the way, hopefully soon(ish)

[@markc8401]

@@LegendaryTactics Yes I watched the first two a couple of weeks ago. Excellent. And looking forward to the 4th! I think you are in TO? Halifax, NS here...recovering from Hurricane Fiona

[@brucewarren3562]

So many fond memories rekindled by this one in particular. These were my hay days of purchasing Avalon Hill games with many of these titles still in my collection! I thank all involved for the countless hours of entertainment they gave to me! ❤

[@LegendaryTactics]

Awesome! So glad they provided so much enjoyment!

[@wheel6243]

Am really enjoying this series. I got started in the late 70's playing Tactics II, Bismarck, War at Sea, & Submarine that my friend owned. I still have Panzer Leader, Squad Leader, Luftwaffe, Jutland, Wooden Ships and Iron Men, and Feudal. Another friend had Outdoor Survival which I don't remember ever surviving! :D

[@LegendaryTactics]

Hi there! Glad to hear you are enjoying the series! They take some work but it is a labor of love! Those are some great games you mention!

[@agilemonk6305]

I was around and playing so many of these across the board. What a great time for games and Avalon Hill. With my all time favorite Squad Leader, later to establish Advanced Squad Leader.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Yes, great games! Thanks for watching!!

[@orbitalair2103]

Great series, really cool videos, thank you for making these. I got my start with Arab-Isreali Wars, then I got Squad Leader. Squad Leader is AH best game. Still love the original. Great memories.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Wow, you dove in with both feet! Most people start with the simpler games first and work up from there! Thanks for watching!

[@Gronk79]

Once again, an excellent presentation. Russian Campaign was a game that was based on an Australian company named Jedko games. AH bought the game and reworked/reboxed it keeping the same name. RC was a fun & fast game. I still have the original Aussie game.

[@LegendaryTactics]

That's neat that you still have the original one!

[@Viewfromtheturret]

It was also redone by L2 Design in 2003.

[@thomasharrison2974]

I spent many a hour playing these games

[@LegendaryTactics]

Lots of fun!! What was your favorite?

[@thomasharrison2974]

@@LegendaryTactics Panzer Leader and Panzer Blitz. Many an hour playing with my childhood friends

[@jonathanw3258]

This series is wonderful. Thanks for producing them. My time with Avalon Hill was primarily the mid 80’s to mid 90’s, but it’s interesting to see how many of the older games like Midway and Outdoor Survival I somehow acquired. My all-time favorites were Up Front, Hannibal Rome vs Carthage, and Diplomacy.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Great! Thanks for watching and commenting!

[@Aquadoc1962]

Wow! What a great trip through war gaming history with an incredibly well constructed video! I started with AH Gettysburg, Christmas Day, 1959! I still own all my war games through the years, hundreds of them! Thank you!

[@LegendaryTactics]

You're welcome! If you didn't catch part 1, here it is: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bV7PaWaOlrl_ndk . Also, part 2: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rIuXeJeVn7B8mcU

[@michaelsommers2356]

_Dispatcher_ (1958) was AH's first railroad game, followed by _C&O/B&O_ in 1969.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Yes, but my point with Rail Baron was that it started the train game genre in some ways - Dispatcher and C&O/B&O never sold very well, and didn't really kickstart the genre

[@simply4est]

Thanks, probably my favorite games are from that era!

[@LegendaryTactics]

There are some greats!

[@texasnutmegger3296]

Spent hours playing Third Reich and Victory in the Pacific, fond memories of a bygone age.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Nice! Both great, classic games!

[@yoohoo909]

Had quite a few AH board games in my time.! Fun times, imagination! Social interaction with real people!

[@LegendaryTactics]

That's great! What was your favorite?

[@yoohoo909]

@@LegendaryTactics 'Squad leader' and it's add-ons Not sure if AH made it but also enjoyed 'Iron Men, Wooden ships'.

[@NoEnemiesHere]

KUDOS!! That was fantastic! Great work!!!!

[@LegendaryTactics]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@e-4airman124]

thank you great times indeed😘

[@LegendaryTactics]

Yes! Thank you for watching!

[@JustanOlGuy]

I no longer have my collection, cause life, so thanks fer tha heartache. lol.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Sorry to hear that, but at least you can enjoy some nostalgia with these videos!

[@vinnartaigh2076]

Same

[@grimdesaye6534]

Hi, thank you for showing this Great Game company. They were Awsome games. I knew John Hill a very intelligent fellow:) God Bless

[@LegendaryTactics]

Nice! That would be neat to have known him. Thanks for watching! If you hadn't seen the next part of that series yet, here is the link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/inTMgpaYrdF3qZosi=2LWwzSRohroi9Cj3

[@shootytheturtle]

This was great, I really enjoyed watching this. Avalon Hill was the best and made so many memorable games with high quality components. Lookng forward to the next episode, keep 'em coming please!

[@LegendaryTactics]

Will do! Glad you're enjoying them!

[@nanorider426]

Very good video. But you forgot to mention the 2021 version of Russian Campaign by Compass Games.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Oh yes, it looks like I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out!

[@nanorider426]

@@LegendaryTactics Not at all. I look forward to the next chapter. 😃

[@xerxes8632]

Great video, took me down memory lane. I had a lot of those games back in the day.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Awesome! Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching!

[@Shauma_llama]

Mr. President, by 3M, is another one of those games I played so often that the cards became so worn they're getting difficult to read.

[@LegendaryTactics]

That's a good sign! I don't think that game came over in the Avalon Hill purchase - must have been out of print by then

[@mwt3579]

My wife and I play Acquire regularly with our adult sons. The smack talking surrounding the game is as much fun as the game itself. We may be poor losers but we are even worse winners. 🙂

[@LegendaryTactics]

Ha ha, that is how memories are made!

[@mikebrewer5758]

I was a huge AV player. SL was even used as a training tool when I was in the Marine Corps. Doe's anyone has any information as to if or when a PC app. might be released. That would be an amazing step into the 21st century.

[@LegendaryTactics]

I don't know of any immediate plans to convert Squad Leader directly to a digital app. There are some games out there that purport to recreate the experience like Steel Panthers and Close Combat. But ultimately, for anyone who would do it, it would be a labor of love, and not a great money-making venture...

[@BobK58]

Have you tried the old Campaign Series games? Closest thing to SL I've found.

[@Mariner311]

Steel Panthers was about as close as it got on the PC.

[@_rma901]

This is great.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Thank you for saying so, and for watching!

[@wehosrmthink7510]

Thank you! Excellent documentary!

[@LegendaryTactics]

Thank you for the kind words! And for watching!

[@russkinter3000]

I had "1914" and loved it, but both my friends and my dad found it too hard.

[@LegendaryTactics]

I have a hard copy of 1914 as well - it's a bit hard to get to the table...

[@russkinter3000]

@@LegendaryTactics I still have the game, but I am not sure it has all the pieces. It now resides in a model B1 bomber box.

[@urdude67]

I played Afrika Korps, Diplomacy, Kingmaker, Blitz and Leader, and others I can’t recall. How does one even find game players these days?

[@LegendaryTactics]

I think Boardgamegeek would likely be the best place, aside from social media. That's a great list of games you noted. How would you rank them?

[@urdude67]

@@LegendaryTactics Thanks I will take a look there. Weeell, having memory problems, but my all time favorite was Diplomacy. We formed a solid group of five players in middle school. We could never get to six or seven steady players, because of hurt feelings, and we were probably too nerdy for many of our victims. We're talking early 80s. After that, maybe Kingmaker. I enjoyed the knights crests, the various cards that handed out randomness, and the factions. I don't think I ever found others who liked it as much as I did. I adored Rommel, I fell for his myth as a lad. So I like AK, but I honestly think it's too simple a game. I could win as either side. I was never a one to lose to build up confidence. I had a copy of PA-AK, but I never found a gamer to play that. I was impressed with Blitz/Leader, but I always lost, at least that's what I remember. I bought some games off eBay a while back, but have yet to find someone to play with. I had some military experience as an adult, and I reckon those games captured some reality.

[@psychohist]

You make them. I recently taught Panzerblitz to my 13 and 11 year old sons, and they will play against me whenever I have the time.

[@tharkwarrior]

Good stuff! I would add, having played the first Starship troopers and movie tie-in game they are not related except in being based on the same theme. A version of the Kingmaker rules was also the basis for Samurai: Game of Politics and Warfare in Feudal Japan (1979), I believe. They played very similarly except in Samurai you drew chits instead of cards.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Interesting! I would like to try the movie tie-in sometime! How is it?

[@ronaldbharvey]

Acquire has been republished by Renegade Game Studios and is currently in print

[@LegendaryTactics]

Yes, we hope to grab a copy of it at GENCON 2023 if it is there!

[@lucadonati3338]

Bel video! Complimenti!

[@LegendaryTactics]

Grazie!

[@Sarkus01]

I remember seeing all the AH non-war games in stores and thinking that was really how they supported the war games side. How true that was financially has never been clear to me.

[@LegendaryTactics]

I think it was a mix of both. They certainly had some big hits in wargaming like Afrika Korps and Panzerblitz, and they had games that were big hits that weren't wargames, like Facts in Five.

[@jeffmcarthur5617]

My grandmother had Marble Maze. It was a box with a moveable board that had a maze on it, and you had knobs on two sides that would lower and raise the platform. In doing this, you would move the marble in one direction or another, trying to get it out of the maze. However, I believe that there were other exits as well which were not the correct exit, and if you accidentally sent it out one of those, you lost.

[@LegendaryTactics]

That's good to know! I scoured the internet, but wasn't able to find anything definitive on it.

[@jeffmcarthur5617]

@@LegendaryTactics I'm glad you're doing these videos. It's extremely helpful for me. I'm writing a book about what I call the Entertainment Generation. The Avalon Hill period was the only part I was having difficulty getting details on, so you're providing a wonderful resource.

[@Heathcoatman]

Great series of videos. Do you make your own counters? I notice that when you show examples of Squad Leader, all of your counters are very flat top and bottom, and they have thin black borders around them. My counters are rounded on the edges on top and have a sort of concave square divot on the bottom, no border. The counters in these videos look much better than the ones I have.

[@orbitalair2103]

The Origins Tobruk came in a tan box and iirc were signed by Hal Hock. Tobruk is def a different kind of game from the usual AH style.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Yes, I saw a photo on boardgamegeek of a signed copy. It was a very different design both for AH and wargaming in general

[@codebasher1]

Panzerblitz/panzer leader/Arab Israeli Wars filled so many days during my teenage years in the 70's. Living in a remote town I had no one to play against. Happily decades later I rediscovered them during the mid 2000's and was able to enjoy many games with my teenage son. From that he became a WW2 buuf who like me enjoys many tank/war documentaries. 2]\

[@LegendaryTactics]

I love how the games are being shared with the younger generation, who will hopefully keep these great games alive!

[@kencusick6311]

My High School war gamers club always had a game of diplomacy going after school.

[@LegendaryTactics]

That's great! I'm sure there were many friendships made and destroyed, as it should be.

[@jpotter2086]

A 1996 release is an "early" PC game? Feeling older all the time LOL

[@LegendaryTactics]

I know the feeling. Like any song released before 1997 is considered to be "classic rock"

[@Zakalwe-01]

My most precious AH game is Arab-Israeli War, a (for then), modern warfare update of Panzer Blitz.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Yes, it is supposed to be great but I have yet to play it... Hopefully soon!

[@lanceash]

Has anyone else noticed that if you play Tactics II by yourself, Red always wins? It's because of the bridges connecting the Red capital to the mainland.

[@LegendaryTactics]

I have not tried that - it would be an interesting thing to test!

[@terry7907]

Great series of videos. Alesia is pronounced ah-lee-sha.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Oh, thank you! I never know where to look these things up, I just have to make my best guess until someone knowledgable like yourself lets me know!

[@davidwilliams7935]

I am pretty sure it was JFK who played Diplomacy and not his son.

[@LegendaryTactics]

Ah, yes, good catch! I'll blame that on my Canadian-ness

[@davidwormell6609]

1978 onwards?

[@LegendaryTactics]

I'm working on it now. Part 4 will be released in a couple of weeks, and then the final chapter a week after that. I'm determined to get the series done by the end of this year! Thank you for your interest, and for watching!

[@davidwormell6609]

@@LegendaryTactics Thanks!

[@sbmicro1896]

Squad Leader ❤

[@LegendaryTactics]

Oh yeah

[@wartable]

Rail Baron was great

[@LegendaryTactics]

I've heard good things, but I haven't had the chance to try it yet! What did you like best about it?

[@robertgreer7223]

I thought they released kingmaker in ‘74 as well

[@stephanvalkyser3186]

Many of the 3M titles (like Contigo, Ploy, Foil and others) never made it into an AH version.

[@LegendaryTactics]

They were in the 1979 catalogue, for example, but they may have been old stock they were selling off and just added their logo

[@stephanvalkyser3186]

@@LegendaryTactics Yes, just old stuff sold off - not even with an AH logo

[@farpointgamingdirect]

Origins needs to get back to it's roots, and back to Baltimore where it all began

[@LegendaryTactics]

That would be neat, although it may be that "you can't go home again..."

[@farpointgamingdirect]

@@LegendaryTactics There is another con started by AH: the World Boardgaming Championships started as AvalonCon; that con is no longer in Baltimore either...

[@blacbraun]

JFK was a Diplomacy fan. Not JFK Jr. (I mean maybe he was too but the former president is who was referred to here)

[@LegendaryTactics]

Yes, I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out!

[@J5460-r8z]

Who the hell is Rictifin?

[@LegendaryTactics]

Ha ha, there goes my crazy Canadian accent agin...

[@J5460-r8z]

@@LegendaryTactics hehe

[@thepun3721]

these videos require one to have bgg open

[@LegendaryTactics]

I suppose, although I try to summarize all the games for you so you don't have to do too much research!

[@thepun3721]

@@LegendaryTactics im not researching, im putting things on my wishlist lol!!!!

[@LegendaryTactics]

Hahahaha, love it

[@suzsam17]

Break thru By 3m

[@LegendaryTactics]

Not sure what you mean?

[@suzsam17]

@@LegendaryTactics Title of a 3M game its a classic

[@EricAlainDufresne]

War at Sea was my first wargame. God damn you AH. I would give your video a thumbs up, if it didn't use so much stock photography / videos that don't have anything to do with the games in question. Otherwise, I enjoy your videos.