History of the Morrison-Knudsen TE70-4S ~ SP's Bizarre U25B Rebuilds (Obscure Offerings Ep. 14)

In 1978, MK Rail rebuild a quartet of Southern Pacific U25B locomotives with Sulzer prime movers, with their new designation being TE70-4S. In this video we go over the history of these little-known engines.
(Image Credits):
Chuck Schwesinger (Flickr)
Graig Garver (Flickr)
Craig Walker (RR Picture Archives)
Dan Haneckow (Flickr)
Deane Motis (Flickr)
Gene McKinley
John C. Benson
John Hepp (Flickr)
Ken Lankshear (Flickr)
Kevin Cavanaugh (Flickr)
Kim Piersol (RR Picture Archives)
Peter Arnold
Roger Puta
Ron Hawkins (RR Picture Archives)
Steven Vincent (RR Picture Archives)
Tom Gildersleeve
WPZephyrFan (Train Board forums)
(Information Sources):
American Rails
espee.railfan.net/te_70-4s.html
www.trainorders.com/discussio...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-K_TE7...
www.ssloan.net/trains/sp/7000....

[@rottenroads1982]

I didn’t know these existed until I saw your video.

[@UrMomsChauffer]

It's amazing that you know about Septa and their schedule issues. Instant subscriber

[@Slim_Slid]

Morrison Knudsen originally leased out or used retired units from other railroads for construction projects. Later they decided to become a contractor rebuild program for any railroads. The partnership and experiments with Sulzer Bros were such flops that MKR decided to discontinue the attempts and was partnered with Caterpillar for awhile whom already was involved in the locomotive market for some time. Aside from these U25B's/TE70-4S's there also was a GP9 rebuild that MKR completed. It was a Union Pacific unit that was repowered with a Sulzer 6ASL prime mover. This was when Union Pacific,Southern Pacific,and ATSF were still interested in the MKR/Sulzer campaign trying to search for more efficient alternatives opposed to EMD prime movers. Most of it was upcoming because of EPA regulations becoming stricter. The GP9/TE50-4S rebuild,which was classified as a demonstrator,roamed around on several class one railroads and even found itself on some shortlines. Nobody was interested in the unit and MKR returned it back to their facility to use as a shop switcher. The 6ASL was reportedly more reliable than the 8ASL's in the TE70-4S's but none of the units were up to proficient operating conditions here in the United States which is part of why the testbed units were discontinued. The last MKR/Sulzer rebuilds that were done were 10 SD45's from Union Pacific and ATSF which didn't last very long either and most units were rebuilt again with factory 20V645E7's. Even the SD45,SD45-2,and SD40-2 testbed rebuilds as SDCAT's from ATSF,CNW,and Burlington Northern lasted longer than those.

[@jsgaming3248]

interesting locomotive rebuilds And a Good (Great) Locomotive is being ruined by a stupid rebuild. also Another forgotten & unusual locomotives like Morrison-Knudsen MK5000C and Emd GP8,10,11,16. Nice History video.

[@DFWRailVideos]

The UP had a history of buying up ex-Demonstrators because they were cheaper. They bought a LOT of them, including SD24s, GP20s, SD45s, etc. Yes, the Frisco never made it to San Francisco, California, only going as far as about Fort Worth, Texas. A town in Texas north of Dallas was named "Frisco" after the railroad.

[@markjohnson4924]

TE-704S means Tractive Effort 70,000 lbs, 4 driving axles, Sulzer engine.

[@alexvaughn7345]

Yes its true. Frisco never made it San Francisco or California. It only went as far as texas.

[@mikehawk2003]

U25Bs were easily the most despised locomotives on the Southern Pacific by far from crew experiences. The same goes to other GE products built before the 90's.

[@wilfred8326]

😂 maybe..... The Alco C415? Although those weren't Frankensteins.... just a poor design.... Why couldn't Alco keep doing what they were w/the T-6 and S-6 but boost the Horsepower to Compete w/EMD's SW1200 + SW1500, I mean MLW did with the M420TR (Switcher-Transfer Version of M420)

[@mikehawk2003]

@@wilfred8326 If the C415s were spread out over a larger area rather than the LA Basin, definitely. ALCO really couldn't catch themselves a break in those times. I'm not sure why ALCO did what they did, really did their fractured reputation in.

[@Slim_Slid]

Most variables from the Universal Series in general had certain teething problems and weren't that great. It was a surprise to see GE units many years ago still be in usage after fifteen or more years. The only units that were usable to an extent were the U30C's,U33C's,and U36C's which were heavy pullers and good at yanking a serious consist. Many of these units just like the later C30-7's and C36-7's were mostly used as helpers and for coal trains,espiecally Southern Pacific and Burlington Northern. There wasn't that many of the higher rated units because alot of the railroads in those years were trying to avoid extra mainteance and expenses. Basically the horsepower rating of the EMD 40 series (3,000 HP) was the acceptable limitation for any and all units that the railroads wanted. The tractive effort of those units was almost comparable to that of the GP40-2's & SD40-2's minus throttle response and reliability. Other than that,yes many personnel hated these units and alot of them were famous for throwing piston rods or turbocharger failures. The most complaints about them were how the cabs were cramped and narrow compared to EMD or even ALCO units,espiecally the doors.

[@danhoyland142]

Pronounced “ kin newd son” . It’s ok your not from the states. I subscribed, Nice job.

[@DC4260Productions]

I always thought the 'k' was silent, like how it is in 'knight'.

[@ryandavis7593]

@@DC4260Productions As a former employee of the subsequent Motive Power Wabtec I can vouch for the is post. All of the old heads still said it as the company name. It is K newd son. That being said, we really cannot fault you for not having the distinctive American pronunciation of this name.

[@anb7408]

These pieces of rebuilt crap were so bad that one of them suffered a massive failure on their very first run. A bit embarrassing for M-K when a locomotive can't even survive its first trip! A harbinger of their future sad and short lives.

[@TheTheratfarmer]

Ge, alco or emd? Emd has the best engine. I've seen cat v-16's break a piston rod on the test stand. Alco's, know nothing about them, EMD is the best. Why did cat buy emd and what is out there now (2024)?

[@Slim_Slid]

EMD was almost down and out when General Motors sold them and Greenbriar Berkshire only became their parent company to cut down costs as much as possible. Caterpillar bought Progress Rail which actually owned EMD at the time when originally EMD was their subsidiary. That's how that all happened. EMD had been slowly going downhill for many years after the GP40-2's & SD40-2's were discontinued. It first started with the GP50's & SD50's which had their 645F3's stressed to the breaking point on power. The GP49's weren't that bad but Alaska Railroad was the only one to make orders for these units. GE began to dominate the market starting with the variables of their -8 series mainly because of technological advancements such as mircoprocessors and wheel slippage prevention which EMD couldn't provide. Not to mention stronger traction motors and better gearing. EMD only remained on the market because of the simplicity and reliability of their 645 and 710 series prime movers while GE units were known for a long time to cause fires. The real deal that inevitably made EMD cease production was stricter emissions regulations because two stroke emits higher carbon footprint opposed to four stroke like GE and ALCO. ALCO units weren't bad but also weren't easy to find and/or have parts resources for and repair. Obvious as to why many ALCO units over the years were rebuilt with EMD prime movers. GE bought ALCO right after bankruptcy and also obtained production rights for the RVBL design from Cooper Bessemer which became the GE 7FDL's. The very first units to have them were the GE 70T switchers such as the FWL-6T's that were actually built by Cooper Bessemer. EMD's last mistake while still under GM were the SD90MAC-H's which suffered immensely from multiple mechanical and electronic failures just like the SD9043MAC's. While under Greenbriar Berkshire,it was the same electronic problems as the SD90MAC's that occured with the SD70ACE's. CAT/PRLX once becoming EMD's parent company have done rebuilds and experiments which all have failed such as the PR43C's for Norfolk Southern which were SD50's and SD60's. The worst units are the SD70ACE-T4's which is ironic because they based them on the SD90MAC's but while taking the 265H from the SD89MX prototype and rebuilding it as the 1010J. The problem is large and powerful Caterpillar engines don't work in heavy four axled or six axled units. Caterpillar however has been involved in rebuilds for many years. Like the S4's/CS-9's from GTW with 3512B's,TC10/GP9's from Norfolk Southern,and SD45's,SD45-2's,and SD40-2's/SDCAT's from CNW,ATSF,and Burlington Northern. Those were about the only successful rebuilds done with what little was done. The D1700's in the GE 44T's-80T's worked well too and then there was the 3508B's for the Whitcombs/Baldwin RS-4-TC-1A's for the Army and USAF which originally used D397's. The first and biggest failures with using Caterpillar prime movers in units were the MK5000C's from Morrison Knudsen with 3612B's that were leased out to Southern Pacific and Union Pacific. BC Rail was interested until the program and company completely shut down and eventually GE took over. Their road switchers like the MK1500's-MK3500's were reliable though. GE units in modern times are actually becoming more reliable,easier to repair and diagnose,and more rebuild programs are starting to show up thanks to Wabtec now owning GE's part in production. For the last forty years at least most EMD units will get retired and put in storage or get sold off,not many rebuilds are done anymore for class one railroads that is. EMD units are still out there in thousands for shortlines and industrial usage.