Jane Seymour Reason For Marriage: Blessing or a Curse?

[@Kaylee-Renee]

Henry liked Jane because she was quite and kept her mouth shut. His first wife was strong and his second was passionate and even though that's what he loved about them it's also what he hated when he didn't get what he wanted from them. The only reason Jane is immortalised is because she was lucky enough to birth a son and die before she could fall from favour.

[@HistoryRoadshow]

I'm not sure if Jane would have fell from favour! She complimented Henry unlike his other wives. To the point where he was buried beside her, which I think say's a lot about how Henry really felt about her. Thanks for watching Kaylee 😊

[@susanlove9303]

I wonder if he would have had so much admiration for her if she birthed a daughter instead of a son. I doubt he wouldn't have held off marrying another woman if she did.

[@HistoryRoadshow]

It's a very good point you make Susan. History does tend to say that for once Henry actually loved Jane. We'll never know. Thanks 😊

[@lisamorrison214]

@@HistoryRoadshow her only way that she “complimented ” Henry was her son.

[@briandelaney9710]

That’s not true. Jane spoke up and interceded for the Lady Mary and for the monasteries. She had core Catholic beliefs and kept to them

[@ShallowApple22]

Anne pretty much set the precedent on how to bag a king and JANE literally played Anne at her own game. And Anne could do nothing but watch in horror the same as Catherine had had to do previously.

[@HistoryRoadshow]

Fear seems to be a contributory reason all Henry's ladies succumbed too. How could they say no? Thanks for watching 😊

[@Shane-Flanagan]

Yes Jane and the Seymours played a similar game but slightly different as Jane played the role of innocent, quiet, humble.

[@wednesdayschild3627]

@@HistoryRoadshow thank you for show.

[@chykim1]

Great point 💕

[@chykim1]

@@Shane-Flanagan she learned from Anne's mistakes.

[@TheKingsofFrance]

I wonder if they even had a say in the matter. Weren’t all marriages arranged by ambitious fathers and uncles, who hoped the marriage of the girls would advance their own position at court ? Women were a commodity back then, something to trade with... nothing more, nothing less. I feel sorry for each of the six wives of Henry...

[@HistoryRoadshow]

It was certainly a male dominated world back then. I mentioned to someone the other day it's only 100 years ago that women got the vote in the UK. So not a lot changed in 400 years to that point. You make a valid point! 😊

[@Shane-Flanagan]

Yep. Women didn't have a choice. Those who defied their families and married for love like Mary Boleyn were shut out of the family. The Boleyns, Howards and Seymours were definitely power hungry. The brother of Anne of Cleves sorted her match, she had no say. Catherine Parr was a widow but caught Henry's eye and had to marry him as he wanted a mature woman to care for him and his children

[@carinafourie9119]

I think they had 3 choices: mistress to be discarded, withdraw to a nunnery or “virtuous refusal like Anne and Jane did”. But once Henry was interested in a woman, all other men would back off. Mistresses were conveniently “married off” as soon as he was done with them.

[@Shane-Flanagan]

@@carinafourie9119 Well yes there were those three choices, none of which were pleasant and sometimes the choice was already made for them and they had to obey.

[@lisamorrison214]

I’m sure the only Queen that actually was in love with Henry was Katharine of Aragon.

[@Shane-Flanagan]

It's fair to say that anyone who got involved with Henry romantic or otherwise was cursed. Maybe Henry did truly feel something for Jane. Maybe her gentle personality reminded him of his dear mother. I think Henry saw her as easy to control and different from his previous wives who were far more intelligent and dominant in mind, opinion and spirit. She was someone who wouldn't ask questions, get involved in his business and not fight back. He was desparate for an heir, if Jane failed in her duty, she would have been gone as quick as she came. She gave him what he wanted at cost of her life and that is why he cherished her memory so much. It's hard to believe he was capable of love. She does deserve credit for helping piece a broken family back together. She didn't have to do so which says a lot about her character. We all know how begrudging and petty Henry could be. Because of Jane efforts, Mary and Elizabeth could come to Court more and have some sort of a relationship with their father in the absence of their mothers. I like to think Catherine Parr carried on where Jane left off in this regard. She was an excellent stepmother. The only blessing really is that Jane got her name in the history books. If it wasn't for her involvement with Henry, she'd only be a footnote in history. BTW you did a better job on this video compared to others in regards to images, scenes and animations etc. They were very appropriate for the time. Modern day dramatisations were kept to a minimum. 😄👍😺

[@HistoryRoadshow]

I think Henry lulled all his wives into a false sense of security. Great points and all valid Shane. Thank you for taking the time to watch and I'm happy to have quelled the modern drama a little for you! 😊

[@annfeeney1662]

@@HistoryRoadshow you mentioned in your post that Henry thought his marriage had been cursed . has anyone considered the curse upon the male heirs of the person (s) responsible for murdering the two princes in the tower? They were the siblings of Henry’s mother Elizabeth of York. Perhaps that is the source of the curse .

[@jenniferschillig3768]

@@annfeeney1662 So Philippa Gregory speculated in her novels...

[@MsJubjubbird]

Henry's first marriage was different. He hadn't realised his power yet and it started as a partnership, with his wife being older and having more experience in governance. Just when people saw it was beneficial to give him ultimate power for their own gain at her expense- when he was older and more experienced- did they the power balance really shift. Anne was one of those who pushed that idea- only to have it backfire on her when she could not be controlled. By the time their marriage was failing Henry was injured, old and an outright dictator. Someone young, pretty and subservient would suit him. Arguing made him feel old.

[@elizabethfrattallone5231]

I had never been told Jane had a miscarriage

[@HistoryRoadshow]

It was a pretty common occurrence back then Elizabeth. Thank you for watching 😊

[@leanie5234]

I had only heard of this once before (and that was earlier today !)

[@melenatorr]

Thank you for this lovely portrait of a woman whose reputation mostly seems to be Wife Number Three Who Gave Birth and Died. In addition to things you mentioned, she was also instrumental in reconciling Mary to Henry and creating a family - something which Catherine Parr was able to build on and which neither Anne of Cleves nor Catherine Howard had a opportunity to try. I would like to take a bit of issue with your statement that Henry loved Jane more fully than either of his previous two. His marriage to Catherine lasted two decades, and for a good portion of that time, the marriage was successful, happy and even playful. Both Catherine and Henry were intelligent and well-read; there was confidence between them, and trust. Jane's marriage lasted about 1.5 years. It's difficult and unfair to all three parties to compare a relationship of 20 years to one of less than 2, but we can say this much: at a similar time in the marriage to Catherine of Aragon, the relationship was healthy, happy and hopeful. Catherine would have pregnant with little Prince Henry, or would have just given birth to him, so the parallel in time between her and Jane is rather striking. Henry always loved fully and whole-heartedly until he didn't. Anne's situation is equally difficult to compare, and the major part of her actual marriage was devoted to trying to give Henry a son, and political stresses affecting the marriage as early as 1534; but the lengths to which Henry went to get her, and strength of his attraction to her for so many years before his marriage to her can't be dismissed, and the love and devotion to her is clearly there. It definitely can't be called a fulfilling or happy love, but that doesn't detract from its strength. It's impossible to say what Jane's marriage to Henry would have been like 20 years down the road. Being more sedate and less politically prominent than Catherine of Aragon, the marriage might have been smoother. On the other hand, her relatives might have made things rocky, the way the Woodvilles did during the reign of Edward IV, and this would definitely affected the relationship between Jane and Henry. And at this point, Henry was used to having a woman by his side who understood politics and who had opinions. He might have felt that vacancy in a wife who preferred to steer clear of intrigues and treaties. Would he have felt confident leaving England in a regency of Jane Seymour? Unknown. I tend to question it.

[@CountessKitten]

I adore your videos! The delivery, the content and the soothing sound of your voice are all amazing! I have a suggestion... I'd like to see you do some videos on The French Crown, specifically Louis The XIV and Versailles. Maybe some Plantagenet videos too! Thanks!

[@HistoryRoadshow]

Noted Duchess, I will of course be working towards other characters from other realms in the future! Thank you for the kind words, have a lovely week 😊

[@blairegardner369]

Loved this video!! Not much is known about Jane and I loved how you told her story!

[@HistoryRoadshow]

Glad you enjoyed it Blaire. Have a great week 😊

[@elizabethspedding1975]

I think all Henry's ladies were treated badly at some point.🥀

[@Shane-Flanagan]

It was definitely more of a curse to get involved with Henry.

[@HistoryRoadshow]

Tend to agree Shane. Yet the House of Tudor always seems to produce a good story. Thanks for watching 😊

[@HistoryRoadshow]

He wasn't the most caring of men Elizabeth. Have a good evening 😊

[@somyod2u]

Ann of Cleaves did very well out of her ' brush ' with Henry VIII. She didn't have to endure his conjugal rights. After the annulment, he gave her the title of ' Sister ' , property and lands, with no responsibility whatsoever other than to keep her mouth shut. Possibly it was Henry who lost out. She might just have been the one able to give him many healthy male children.

[@Shane-Flanagan]

@@somyod2u But Anne got out of marriage with Henry that's why she did well. She received her houses and lands and didn't have to come to Court often so kept a distance.

[@ambreeniram2268]

I didn't know about the miscarriage. Her death is so tragic, being just 29. Women were subjected to so much pressure for heir, especially Henry's wives. If she had a miscarriage she shouldn't have conceived so soon for the sake of her health. But the expectations were huge and Henry Viii too impatient. Poor girl, lived just 18 months as a queen of England. Thank you for sharing about her.

[@tracys169]

Back then, no one can say 'no' to the King. I mean, even if Jane didn't like Henry, how can she say no? Her family is ambitious and she was like a pawn to them. I sometimes wonder how she really felt about Henry. I'm sure that she's not silly to assume that Henry's affection would remain consistent seeing how he's behaved with his previous two wives and many mistresses. Although her fate might be different, she couldn't just be discarded because she did birth a male heir. Henry probably would just have mistresses instead of other wives if Jane survived. I just found your channel, and I enjoy it very much. Subbing.

[@HistoryRoadshow]

Thanks Tracy, enjoy your weekend 😊

[@franminky7763]

I’m sure if Jane had lived , Henry would have turned against her at some point

[@magenta6754]

Henry VIII was a narcissist and though capable of short term passion, he was not able to love. None of his many relationships and marriages lasted because he couldn’t love or care about the feelings of others. Jane died before he found a reason to tire of her.

[@jacquelinedeigan3913]

Feel so sorry for all these poor ladies. All badly used and victims of the times.

[@alisonmcnamara800]

I still consider Anne as the most successful wife. He chased her, changed the world for her of course he did kill her, however in the end it was Anne's daughter who was the most successful Tudor!

[@AndriaBieberDesigns]

Jane knew what she was doing. She maneuvered herself in that position in order to score her husband. Case in point, she works with Nicholas carew and headed his advice on how to handle Henry.

[@Shane-Flanagan]

Her family too

[@HistoryRoadshow]

She had more going for her than some like to think, clearly ambitious but also skilled in politics. Thanks Andria 😊

[@Shane-Flanagan]

@@HistoryRoadshow Do u think Jane was skilled in politics? She wasn't given much of an education. At least not to the same degree as Catherine and Anne.

[@chykim1]

As if back in those days women had choices, she was placed in henry's eyes as Anne was.

[@Shane-Flanagan]

@@chykim1 Exactly they were pawns and seen by their families as goods for sale

[@emems6620]

So relaxing to listen to

[@HistoryRoadshow]

Glad to hear that! Thank you so much for watching Emica 😊

[@annfeeney1662]

Yes , the story teller ‘s voice is smooth , relaxing .

[@jamieyoho2310]

She would not have died had she been attended by a more lowly midwife. An experienced midwife would have known to remove any trace of the placenta that might be retained. Unfortunately she was attended by male doctors unwilling to touch her.

[@HistoryRoadshow]

We'll never know Jamie, but you make a great point! 😊

[@elizabethfrattallone5231]

Wow really? Why wouldn’t the had the best doc there

[@jamieyoho2310]

@@elizabethfrattallone5231 they did. Kind of. Henry insisted she be attended by HIS best physicians. All male. All inexperienced in childbirth. These are guys that threw bird seed on ppl and opened the window so birds would carry the sickness (birdseed) away. She did stand a chance.

[@franminky7763]

Absolute rubbish , I’m a retired nurse that has actually studied the history of midwifery , You are talking fantasized nonsense !

[@linniem5982]

All of Henry's wives look similar the way the portrait was painted.

[@Jack-yf9bc]

Like having a human voice! 😅 great vid! Cheers 🍻

[@HistoryRoadshow]

😁 you just killed me Jack. I'll tell the full story when I get community posts! 😀

[@kevinwatkins3170]

Your videos are so fascinating I am definitely going to watch them all.

[@HistoryRoadshow]

Thanks Kevin 😊

[@samanthafordyce5795]

It's true that Jane gave Henry the son he wanted, but it was just one son. Given the infant mortality rate in those days, having just one son was marginal at best. Henry would probably have wanted one more son at least -- the 'spare.' If, as has been suggested by some, Henry had Kell syndrome, it's unlikely there would have been any subsequent children with Jane. And if the son she did bear died while still a child and Henry still alive, Jane would have been under incredibly more pressure to produce a son, something more unlikely than likely with a Kell father. So off Jane would go to the headsman too, on some pretext or other.

[@ivorybluesky]

it was a curse to be anywhere near that king with the exception of Anne of Cleeves.

[@Susieq26754]

Henry was looking for a docile and quiet woman after being with the much opioniated Anne. He just wanted to have a boy. Jane was someone fertile, quiet and obedient.

[@cassandraralph5906]

Jane Seymour was a tragic product of the times, and her family still exists today.

[@katestevens4606]

I agree!

[@chykim1]

Jane was my favorite, she was kind, she reunited henry with his daughters & she gave him a son. Even the courtiers said going from Anne to jane was like going from dark to light💞

[@HistoryRoadshow]

The people never much liked Anne, but Jane was on a different level. Sad story but hope you enjoyed it 😊

[@chykim1]

@@HistoryRoadshow always, thank you❤️

[@Shane-Flanagan]

The people at Court always disliked Anne and just wanted any excuse to slander her. Catherine Parr carried on what Jane started in regards to keeping the family together and nurturing it

[@lindadamisi9302]

I agree

[@jasperhorace7147]

Who knows what Jane’s fate would have been if she had lived. Yes, Jane gave Henry what he most wanted and Henry did worship her memory for doing so, but a living queen was always going to be subject to pressures and intrigues - just look at Catherine Parr. Henry was expert at getting rid of wives and obviously saw nothing wrong in doing so. Would Jane have lasted the distance over time?

[@dianacasey6002]

There would be no waving of union jacks there was no union

[@HistoryRoadshow]

You're right Diana, the clip is used for continuity and gives an impression. Appreciate you watching 😊

[@ceetiguilamoreno2550]

If I understand this correctly from other sources a gentleman of a Kingsburg chamber also includes taking care of them in the restroom. A thing of which they say Diana’s father was also a gentleman of the kings chambers if this is Miss information I’m just gonna keep looking but thank you for the video I’m gonna keep watching Now people hopefully do you remember and should know by now with Amber Lynn at the king side the king is actually rather aged and fat and injured and most likely has a limp from walking. And of course his obsession he has of having a son air to take the drone next since he had made his first daughter a legitimate and then after that Elizabeth a few things had to happen before the girls were made legitimate again or at least allowed back in the court. So by the time Jean comes to Kings wife he’s too old for her but it’s the king... I am however he got her attention by persistence or she legitimately liked him is very much speculation. If people forget how many wives he has there’s always that rhyme It makes you wish that science was advance enough back then medical science course so people could understand and realize that it’s actually all on the man’s shoulders why they keep on having daughters more than sons. Plus of course safe labor‘s safe practices that could save both mother and child a great deal of misfortune

[@reythejediladyviajakku6078]

Jane played favorites as a stepmom. There! I said it!

[@thatonenascarfan1347]

I don’t like Jane at all she called Anne’s daughter Elizabeth mark smeatons basterd I never did like her from the start

[@Shane-Flanagan]

@@thatonenascarfan1347 A bit unfair considering many members of the Court and Henry himself believed Elizabeth was born to Smeaton or one of the other fallen men. Even well into her reign, Elizabeth had to deal with uprisings from those claiming she was illegitimate.

[@elizabethfrattallone5231]

@@Shane-Flanagan I thought they called her illegitimate because her parents marriage was not recognized from the Catholic Church. Elizabeth looked like her father

[@Shane-Flanagan]

@@elizabethfrattallone5231 Yes the Catholic Church never saw Elizabeth as legitimate or her mother Anne as a lawful wife for that matter. It didn't matter to Henry who broke from Rome. After Anne's execution, Henry declared Elizabeth illegitimate in the Church of England and removed her from the Succession. Henry also declared Mary illegitimate when her mother Catherine's marriage was declared unlawful

[@grazielaalmeida8438]

Nah, Katherine of Aragon was his true love.

[@HistoryRoadshow]

Do you think she was?

[@katestevens4606]

@@HistoryRoadshow I believe she was 😊

[@thxforsharing5679]

Try to read some tudor history books

[@leonieromanes7265]

She was in Henry's youth. He "loved" most of his queens, other than Anne of Cleves.... initially.

[@chewyourmilk]

I don't believe he was capable of real love, however Catherine was his true wife and a class act in my opinion.

[@radfem28]

I feel like she was sexual harassed by Henry but because he was the king she couldn't do something like Anne.

[@reythejediladyviajakku6078]

She was very kind to Mary but to Elizabeth? It’s like she didn’t exist for Jane

[@Shane-Flanagan]

Mary deserved kindness after so much heartache. Jane was very fond of Catherine of Aragon. What makes you think that Jane ignored young Elizabeth?

[@reythejediladyviajakku6078]

@@Shane-Flanagan cuz we don’t get much mention of Jane including Elizabeth in her time as their stepmother. Mary needed the kindness after years of abuse but so did Elizabeth. Her father was so unkind to her after her mother was executed that it was insult to injury and the consideration of her stepmother would have helped. There’s a story about Jane sending jewelry to help her get more clothes but there’s little in the way of documentation of such an act

[@Shane-Flanagan]

@@reythejediladyviajakku6078 We don't know what truly happened. There are a lot of blanks. Jane seemed to have a caring heart so I doubt she neglected Elizabeth even if evidence is scarce. She was risking a lot getting Mary reconciled with Henry so intervening for Elizabeth may have been pushing it especially so soon after Anne's downfall. Yes Elizabeth had a hard time but was too young to know her mother or understand what happened. She was only a teen when Henry died so didn't suffer as many years of neglect and cruelty that Mary did. Mary was heartbroken by the mistreatment of her mother and never forgot it. The savage death of Margaret Pole who also cared for Mary was another blow for Mary too. Catherine Parr carried on where Jane left off. She was a great stepmother to all three children. She took Elizabeth in to her household after Henry's death. Yes Catherine's new husband Seymour tried to sexually take advantage of young Elizabeth but that wasn't Catherine's fault.

[@reythejediladyviajakku6078]

@@Shane-Flanagan that’s true and I do think that the world was much crueler to Mary in so many ways and Jane was walking on hot coals even showing Mary kindness that I like to think that she was being careful. She knew her position wasn’t secure enough yet to risk both girls and I like to think had she survived childbirth, she would have gotten more authority to pay Elizabeth the attention she had risked for Mary

[@MsJubjubbird]

Elizabeth was young then. So kept away from court more. Plus Jane was very much on Team Katherine.

[@deangirl2286]

I wonder when people started to realise the most dangerous job of the time was being his wife ?🤔

[@HistoryRoadshow]

Quite possibly after he first glanced at any of the women at court! 😳

[@jacklynsalleh6033]

I'm not sorry.....I HATE JANE SEYMORE !!!! BZ OF HER HENRY HAD TO KILL ANNE !!! SEE EVEN HER CHILD DONT LIVE LONG...SHE BETRAYED ANNE ...WILLINGLY WAITING TO GET HENRY N WANTED TO BE THE QUEEN BADLY...TOP OF IT SHE DIDNT WIN LONG CZ ELIZABETH ( E1 ) THE BEST QUEEN OF THE TWO....SIBLINGS

[@HistoryRoadshow]

Interesting points Jacklyn, have a great weekend 😊

[@carinafourie9119]

Henry killed Anne because she could not give him a son. If not Jane, it would have been someone else. Jane simply did to Anne what Anne had done to Catherine of Aragon.

[@katestevens4606]

Oh, please, Henry would have killed Anne even if Jane wasn't in the picture. He was done with her and lost his feelings for her. If not Jane it would have been someone else who would be replaced Anne.

[@katestevens4606]

@@carinafourie9119 exactly!!!

[@chewyourmilk]

Love this channel just found it

[@HistoryRoadshow]

Thanks Cecilia, it's very much appreciated 😊