The Lancastrian Mistress Who Became A Royal Wife | Katherine Swynford | Wars of the Roses

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thanks for watching! 😊What are your thoughts on Katherine Swynford? Was she simply out to get what she could, or was this a real romance? (And yes, I still have a sore throat! 😂)

[@bohemiansusan2897]

I think that it was both. Women back then didn't have a lot of options and many became paramours out of necessity. In that time people didn't marry for love. It was a way to forward the interests of the self and family.

[@diannelavoie5385]

Hope your throat improves. Mine is sore as well.

[@lightningbug276]

I agree with “both”.

[@kathleenstoin671]

I think she and John had a real love for each other, but she undoubtedly benefited financially from their relationship. That was mainly because they had children, and John wanted to have his children live well and educated well.

[@whitney1348]

I think it was true love. Alison Weir wrote a great book about them. He married her soon after Constance died and he had the Pope declare their marriage and children legitimate. He also had the blessing of the King. Every English Monarch to the current King Charles III descend from Katherine and John.

[@williethomas5116]

The idea of a royal Duke marrying his penniless mistress in order to give 4 illegitimate children a name must have been scandalous. It took courage to do that. He must have really loved her.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

It definitely was scandalous, you're right! (A modern parallel is perhaps that of Charles and Camilla, although of course there's no children to make legitimate, unless you believe that one unlikely guy in the US). As you say, he would have been expected to make a third marriage for politics, not love, anyway, but to marry his mistress was unheard of. While I do think the driving force of the decision was probably to legitimise their children - and by all accounts, the pair were loving, capable parents - Katherine and John both knew how the news of their marriage would be taken.

[@williethomas5116]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople Especially considering how much time he spent fighting for the Spanish crown in the name is his second wife. Then their daughter married her cousin to unify the warring factions. It had to be seen as a slap in the face to Constance and their daughter Catherine, who was born during this period. But she named her son John II after him.

[@wcfheadshots240]

​@williethomas5116 - I doubt the wife saw it as a slap in the face as marriages were political alliances - not love. Husband's took mistresses out of desire.

[@joechang8696]

somehow, I think the people who took it most scandalously were the ones who lost their bid for an advantageous marriage, while those with no stake in the game thought: Oh, what a lovely couple.

[@williethomas5116]

@@joechang8696 I think that is a very modern lens you are looking through. I agree from my perspective today of course he loved this woman and had 4 children with her. He deserved his chance to be happy. But from the perspective of the people at the time at best he created his Prince and heir with Blanche. But at the time when marriage of Princes was about foreign alliances and skirting/securing land back into the royal family. This man spent decades trying to claim the Castilian crown because of his marriage to Constance. But I don't think it could have worked out better for everyone in the end. He was progressive and deserves kudos for his forward thinking.

[@flutelady101]

I grew up reading Katherine, as it was my mothers favorite book--which became mine. I remember my mom dragging us to Kennilworth castle on a family vaction when I was 11!. So, what a wonderful surprise to find out that John of G. and Katherine are my great-grandparents 16 times removed! Total shock---we are related on my father's side. What fun :)

[@rosemaryfranzese317]

Katherine must have been a very warm and loveable person to have inspired such loyalty and love from so many people who could have had reasons to dislike her

[@historyismyplayground1827]

This is a fabulous story! People who don’t like history are missing out on soooo much….

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Right? History has everything - drama, romance, war, mystery, comedy, etc. 😄

[@historyismyplayground1827]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople and it’s TRUE!!!

[@kathleenstoin671]

I liked Alison Weir's book, Mistress of the Monarchy. Weir skillfully wove together many public records to help us understand her life. I'd recommend it.

[@vickyingramnymann8543]

Anya Setons Katherine was the best Historical Novel ever. No one else can touch it.

[@rebeccaorman1823]

​@@vickyingramnymann8543it's important to remember that a historical novel is just that a novel. While it may have some history in it a lot of it is completely made up.

[@mikeg2306]

The most consequential affair in English History, as Katherine was the great great grandmother of Henry VII.

[@BobJohnson648]

Ranks right up there with Katherine of Valois marrying Owen Tudor.

[@PamelaSage-hg6ru]

You was actually the ancestress of both Houses of the Wars of the Roses. Her daughter Joan Beaufort was the ancestress of the House of York, including Edward IV and Richard III and Henry VIIIs mother Elizabeth of York through her marriage into the Neville family. Her descendants also married into the Stuart line, so she was the ancestress of the Stuart successors to the Tudors. She was the ancestress of all the factions over the succeeding centuries and is ancestress through multiple lines of descent to every member of the House of Windsor.

[@tricivenola8164]

THANK YOU for this. Hardly anyone does videos on either John of Gaunt or Katherine Swynford, for all that between them they were the ancestors of all the royalty of Europe and several American presidents as well. A very well-researched and compassionate look at a woman who was vilified and then swept under the royal rugs of subsequent generations. Of course we've all read Anya Seton's novel, true in spirit if not in actuality, and Alison Weir's more factual bio, but i've searched in vain for more on KZbin. Thanks again.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

You're welcome, I'm glad you enjoyed it! 😊 As you say, it's amazing how few books/videos/films there are on either Katherine or John, considering how their relationship was the root for so many royal and noble families.

[@sherrylelee8274]

Katherine was one of my 17th Gt Grandmothers ❤

[@lynds2424]

I read Anya Setons book as a 15 year girl in the early nineties. So glad to you’ve put together this wonderful video!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it! 😊 I remember reading it a long time ago, and although it's not historically accurate at all, really, I remember the lavish descriptions in Seton's were absolutely delicious.

[@cherylk.2474]

I read this book at about the same age, and still have the book. I read it again in my twenties. I'm going to retire soon, and reading it again is something I anticipate with pleasure. It remains a favorite. I wonder if I'll cry again like I dad as a young woman? Probably, once a romantic tear-baby, always a romantic tear-baby!

[@lynds2424]

@@cherylk.2474 I was able the purchase the very book I read at the school book sale before I graduated and I reread it sometimes too. It’s one of my childhood treasures!

[@f.drachenfels4503]

I‘ve read this nice book several times too.

[@luminyam6145]

I did too at about the same age, I loved that book!

[@cathybaggott2873]

I read that Katherine's mother died and her father requested that Queen Philippa take his daughters under her care and protection while he returned to Hainault to claim his estates. They were raised by John of Gaunt's mother the Queen, in the royal household, and even if they were raised to serve, they would have had more courtly manners than most of the nobility

[@janetmiles9306]

I think it was an enduring love match. Having watched your documentary, I hadn’t realised how much a part of the royal family she was in her early years and subsequently became to John’s first wife’s children. Naturally Kathryn would have become accustomed to luxury lifestyle and who can blame her for wanting to make sure she provided for her children. To be buried with his first wife would be to ensure people were aware his children to her had the first claim on the throne.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Absolutely agree - I find it odd when some of these women get tarred with things like 'gold-digger', especially in a time when women couldn't just go and get a job. Wanting a better life for her children was understandable, but as you say, I also believe Katherine and John were genuinely in love.

[@susanmorgan8833]

I have been fascinated by Katherine Swynford for years, beginning with reading the book 'Katherine' by Anya Seton. Any further mentions of the pair I've found do seem to point to their relationship as truly being based on love.

[@cherylk.2474]

I first read this book when I was 16, and I have loved it ever since. I might read it again, as I have recently retired and have a bit more free time. Thank you for reminding me of this beautiful book.

[@patriciaryan7066]

Just finished reading Anya Seton's book - again! I read it first about 40 years ago and enjoy a re-read every 10 years or so. Well researched and very well written. A really enjoyable read - I strongly recommend it.

[@katevc.official]

This should be a movie

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I would love to see a movie about Katherine Swynford. Alternatively, I'd love to have a go if someone gives me the budget! 🤣

[@jimmmmy41]

Who has read Anya Seton's historical novel, Katherine? Good read.

[@diannelavoie5385]

Yes. Very enjoyable .

[@tracymcardle1236]

Love that book one first novels I read about that period❤

[@annett9878]

Really love that book.

[@ShauneScott]

Loved it! Was the beginning of my lifelong interest in the British monarchy.

[@annett9878]

Same here 😀

[@kathyjaneburke2798]

One of the greatest love stories of the ages.

[@LawrencePuchala-z4n]

It is good to remember that British monarchs have been descende from Katherine since 1485 and that kings of Scotland were descended even earlier (these becamekings ofthe UK after 1603.

[@tinapeters5725]

Thank you for this, Anya Seton's novel piqued my interest many years ago, The House of Beaufort is an excellent source of information.,I am pleased that you have pinpointed the importance of Katherine Swynford, who has often been overlooked by may 💐

[@paulaisomura4894]

Seton’s book was and still is one of my favorite novels.

[@PatriciaStott-iw5lh]

I have many times !!!for a time I was captivated by this book about this lady ,I have visited Kettlethorpe an erie place an amazing tale I love history but this tale remains my best read ! I recommend the book .

[@hell8255]

So excited to watch this. I've been so intrigued by Katherine Swynford since reading Anya Seaton's book. I wish that we knew more about her though, she unknowingly started arguably the most famous and historically researched royal house in England. Nobody at the time would have ever guessed that would happen due to her children being born illegitimate. Obviously we know they were legitimised later but still.... The amount of people that had to die for the Tudors to come about is a lot, the end of the war of the roses was wild. Fortunes wheel was always turning.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

As you say, it's annoying how little evidence we have of her, but it is interesting pulling together the little scraps and working out her beginnings. As you say, she was one of the progenitors of the Tudor line, and the Stuart line (as well as her descendants going into many other royal houses across Europe), but no one while she was alive would have thought to write down much about her. Later, when Henry VII decided an epitaph should be written for her tomb, he extolled her as 'extraordinarily beautiful and feminine', as he couldn't really say anything about virtue! Therefore much of what we do know comes from later efforts by the Tudor dynasty to play up her good parts, and as a result there is knowledge missing about her.

[@naomidoudera359]

Read Alison Weirbook

[@KayeTalbot]

Me too... reading Anya Seaton's book resulted in a lifelong love of English history . When I finally went to UK I followed the story via places and castles mentioned. Kenilworth is still my favourtite place .

[@patriciarossman8653]

I inhaled Seton's book. Started around 10:15 one morning, and ended about 4:45 the next morning. I've probably read it 30 times in the last 50 years. It's a gentle way for people to become interested in history.

[@patriciarossman8653]

Anyone here been to Kettlethorpe?

[@rosaliegolding5549]

Two books on Kathryn one of the most important characters of our Medieval History introducing the Tudors are Anya Seaton and Alison Weir both a good read 🤷‍♀️

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I've got them both in my description (along with others)! 😊

[@dulciemidwinter1925]

I have them both. I find Alison Weir more factual than Anya Setons book but just as enjoyable, and because of them, I made the trip to Lincoln Cathedral. It is so beautiful and well worth the visit.

[@laurelnotley9541]

Yes, it was a real romance. I can't imagine the kingdom's wealthiest man staying with his baby mama for that long, then going back after the coast was clear and a supposed two year break, then marrying her after the royal wretch, the second wife, finally was pushing up daisies. Plus, all his children liked each other and they were all raised together by Katheryn. He remembered his love match with Blanche, and wanted another one, when he finally had the chance again in his old age. Of course I'm going to hope for that. I'm one of their descendants, along with several other million of us.

[@nancybradford8514]

Wow, that was wonderful! I didn't know anything about her other than her ties to John of Gaunt, loved it 🎉, thank you 😊❤

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

You're welcome! I'm glad you enjoyed the video. 😊 Katherine is definitely an elusive figure in the history books, especially considering she was the ancestor for so many royal houses in Europe.

[@veronicasimmonds4157]

I've read Katherine by Anya Seton the best historical novel I've ever read 3 tmes

[@helpinyerdasellavon]

Loved to know about this lady, women back then didn't have rights as we know today. You're a wonderful narrator, impeccable work. Thank you so much 🤍

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you very much! I'm glad you enjoyed it. 😊 And you're right in that women in the medieval period really didn't have any rights, but noble women (including those who married into the nobility like Katherine) were at least able to turn things to their advantage through dowries and the idea a widow could inherit for herself.

[@helpinyerdasellavon]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople yes, you're right. Most certainly when they were intelligent and astute besides their education, beauty and charm as this lady was. Thank you.

[@valsmith9542]

Anya Seton’s Book , Kathryn, follows the story of John of Gaunt and Kathryn, I have a copy and have often read it, it’s really interesting,

[@Teddyclaws]

I am descended from John of Gaunt and Katherine Swynford by two different lines, but a huge number of people are descended from them.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

It's still very cool to have them in your ancestry!

[@maryfrump7937]

It is my opinion that even tho many are decendants of Royalty, the fact these people Were the History of Europe. That makes me feel not as "ordinary ", since growing up being told our family was nothing much.

[@locleen]

Me too! Along with about a million others.

[@Teddyclaws]

@@locleen probably several million!

[@darybear0330]

Ive been doing family research and Im descended thru him and katherine twice (they are my 18th great grandparents) and thru gis first wife Blanche and their daughter Elizabeth who is my 19th great grandmother (crazy correlation there). Mary de Bohun, Henry bollingbrooks wife's sister Eleanor and her husband (john of gaunts brother: Thomas of Woodstock) are also my 19th Great Grandparents, so some crazy stuff happening there. Anyway, Hey cousin!!

[@anneliese_vic]

The fact she’s my so many great grandmother 🥰 I adore her

[@GabrielaRoqueCastro]

One of Katherine Swynford's granddaughter's Joan Beaufort became Queen of Scotland wife of James I of Scotland

[@beth7935]

Excellent! Katherine is mostly known for her descendants, her genealogical position in the House of Lancaster, & it's so interesting to hear about her life, & her as a person. Like, I was really surprised when I found out she came from Hainault, which was only fairly recently, & that's a pretty significant fact to be unaware of. I didn't realise she was brought up in the royal court though, & that makes so much more sense: she not only wasn't a "foreigner" like I'd thought, but she knew John & his family, & as you said, was familiar with royal life, & had a similar education- she wasn't just a random commoner working in John's household. Edit: thankyou for the list of sources! I'm horribly tempted by the Beaufort one, particularly cos I've seen an interview with the author & he seems great, but by my rules I'm not allowed to buy any more books cos I haven't finished my "to-read" pile... but ofc my brain's already coming up with justifications for it, lol, & if (when) I give in, ofc I'll use your link.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Is there such a thing as a finished 'to-read' pile, though?... 😂 Don't want to tempt you, but the Beaufort one IS a really good book, lots of detail. And you're right, we all think of Katherine as a foreigner, but she certainly would have been more familiar with the English court - and having said that, the English court at the time still spoke a form of French through Anglo-Norman as well as English, so a confusing mix of everything, I think! She was very lucky to have had the upbringing she did in terms of her social status, and it seems a lot of the royals got on well with her, too, even before she had an affair with John.

[@tinapeters5725]

Hide the new books under the stairs or in a storage cupboard, confessions, from a ' let's hide the book, society, 😂the Beaufort book is excellent,

[@heatherfeather1293]

My many many many times over maternal ancestor

[@gesualdodavenosa8550]

Thank you for this interesting video dedicated to a woman who, with the exception of a few well-documented books (not the romanticized book by Anya Seton which was, however, seemingly well researched) was ignored by history.

[@villainfeatherclover6965]

My last name is Swinford I've been doing a lot of research on my family line and ended up here 😁

[@JM-The_Curious]

Great choice for someone to look at who had such an impact on history. Really interesting. I wish the video was longer though!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Normally, they would be a little longer, but it's school holidays at the moment, so I'm fitting work around my little boy being here! 🤣 I promise they'll go back to longer length in September, haha.

[@AlianorBeaufort]

Seen through the medieval optic: it was beyond being scandalous. Seen through the modern optic: they simply loved each other and their kids. This is how the perspective did change

[@jessrosefawkes2721]

I Dont no a lot about this woman, so really looking forward to watching this video. Thank you very much 😊 x

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

You're welcome, I hope you enjoy it! 😊

[@laurelnotley9541]

All of us who are her descendants, raise your hands!

[@williethomas5116]

Actually, Edward IV was a descendant of Lionel Duke of Clarence, John of Gaunt Duke of Lancaster and Edmund Duke of York.

[@MissMentats]

Awww Im 11 hours late! Had a Sunday lunch food coma I just woke up from 😂 Love this 👏never heard of Katherine before!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Haha, got to love a Sunday lunch food coma though! We haven't had one for a while, but I am missing Yorkshire puddings now... And thank you! 😊 To be honest, I hadn't really heard of Katherine either before researching, beyond a name and the fact she was a mistress. There's so little evidence for parts of her life. But then again, there's actually not a huge amount on any of John's wives!

[@AussieBenita]

Thank you, so glad I subbed to you😊 Katherine had an interesting life and yes I believe it was a love match with John. It was a very hard time to be a woman (We have it better now, but not everywhere!) and, rightfully so, she made the best of her positions. For her and her children. You have piqued my curiosity and a phone call to the library for the Anya Seton one is now on the cards for this week. The others will be in my 'to-buy' wish list. I'm sorry about your poor throat and hope it's on the mend soon🌷Cheers

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it! 😊 And you're right, women at the time really did have to do the best they could, and so no one could blame Katherine if she had simply caught John's eye and played on it. But the nice thing is that (allowing for romantic notions, of course) the evidence shows Katherine and John actually cared for one another, and the fact his family seem to have got on well with her points to this, too. And enjoy Anya Seton's book! It's horrifically historically inaccurate, of course, but it's also wonderfully smoochy and lavish! 🤣❤️ And thank you! My throat is almost back to normal now; I had Covid about four weeks ago and the cough lingered for a long time afterwards! 🤢

[@NinjaGrrrl7734]

If old John had just wifed her up a little sooner, there wouldn't have been any war of the roses. I blame John. Cherchez l'homme!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

True, especially as there was a good five years between Blanche of Lancaster's death and Katherine and John's affair! But I suppose at the time he allowed himself to be talked into marrying for politics? That certainly was the main point of marriage back then, at least for the aristocracy. Everyone else was normal LOL.

[@Justshill]

She and John are my 18th GG parents.

[@karengilliland2439]

Hello cousin, they are my 19th Great Grandparents!.

[@HeatherArnoldcrafter]

They're my 20th great grandparents ❤

[@HeatherArnoldcrafter]

I'm also related to Jacquetta of Luxembourg through her daughter Catherine (Kate) Woodville.

[@karengilliland2439]

@@HeatherArnoldcrafter Me too!

[@ivyrose779]

Researchers have said that every living person with English ancestry is a descendant of Edward III.

[@reaganspeth-martinez565]

I would bet that the Duke probably did not "think something of Hugh." He probably wanted to help the beautiful young Katherine.

[@susanyoung5447]

I would like to believe that it was love that bound John and Katherine. I'm a romantic at heart. But I am also a realist. Katherine was probably very pragmatic. She knew that she needed to get everything she could in order to support her family. Which meant her sister too. Like all poets, no matter how talented, he would have been very close penniless.

[@lightningbug276]

I didn’t know anything about her! Thank you! 👑

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

You're welcome, I hope you enjoyed her story! 😊

[@AlannahRyane]

Well Done you explained their complicated history very clearly much appreciated!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it! 😊

[@cmick69]

Katherine and John are my 18x great-grandparents.

[@dulciemidwinter1925]

I have loved that book for 60 years now. I wish they would make a film of it but I think that everyone has their own idea about what the main characters would look like, so it would be difficult to cast. I visited her tomb in Lincoln to place flowers on the tomb , where she lies next to her daughter. Whilst there, I spoke to one of the clergy who voiced doubts as to whether her remains were actually still there as the tombs had been moved slightly from their original position. I was very disappointed but does anyone know if this is true?

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Yup, the tombs were moved, I think during the English Civil War, and just afterwards, the tombs were put in their current position (they used to be side by side). Because the tombs were moved and the canopy was put on in a bit hastily, there were rumours that - as in other places - the remains had been disturbed. But there's actually no evidence for it, and the remains are likely still under the floor, albeit in a slightly different position! 😊

[@sararemy4484]

I picture John looking like the late Rutger Hauer and Katherine looking like the British actress Lily James. So wish a movie would be made based on Katherine by Anya Seton.

[@AllenSJ5]

Thanks for this video. It’s crazy that no one has any idea who her mother was-ancestors of the British royal family (among many others) lost to history!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Unfortunately some ladies in history do get put down as 'Mrs InsertHusbandNameHere', which makes it so frustrating to try and find out who they really were!

[@laurabuxton7041]

I think it’s clear that he loved her, probably why he married her soon after Constance’s death. He certainly didn’t have to. Royal Dukes (and Kings) nearly always had mistresses. Given her financial difficulties she could have made waves to obtain “hush money” but she didn’t. I think they loved each other.

[@richardlippincott8881]

Stunning art work! thanks.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you! Although of course, I can only take credit for the prompts - Midjourney does all the hard work.

[@ShadowStray_]

Hey great videos, can you make a video about Hildegard of Bingen if you haven’t already

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

She's definitely on my list, so I will do a video on her at some point! 😊

[@anweshabiswas1483]

Love your videos on wars of the roses ❤❤❤❤❤

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you so much, I'm glad you're enjoying them! 😊 It really is quite fun to delve into the women involved, as they're often mentioned only as supporting actors to the stories of the men.

[@anweshabiswas1483]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople Please make videos on Anne nevile ❤️❤️

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I promise she's definitely on my list! I always feel so sorry for Anne, as there can't be many women who became queen but have so little known about them.

[@MichelleBruce-lo4oc]

Hi, awesome live history video I enjoyed it. How are you doing? I'm doing well. Have a great day see you next video 😊

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Hi Michelle, glad you enjoyed the video! I'm doing well too, thanks for asking. 😊

[@ДжамиляМахметова]

Her lifestory is similar to the story of cinderalla .

[@Jerseyboondocks]

You should be hired to be the narrator for a TV documentary!!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Wow, thank you! That's just made my day. 😊

[@willhovell9019]

This resonates with Charlie boy and the great grandaughter of Alice Keppel the mistress of Bertie the shagger ( later Edward VII). No tampons in those days😂

[@hell8255]

I do think john and Katherine were a true love story, although he wanted to and was buried with his first wife, Blanche of Lancaster, thats the only thing that throws me. He could easily have loved both, Blanche died and obviously he could have fallen in love with Katherine but Blanche was the more politically important wife and his first wife. Some people do think that he only married katherine to legitimise the Beaufort children, shame we will never really know though.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I think John of Gaunt really cared about Blanche of Lancaster, and there's evidence that Katherine and Blanche also got on well as friends (one of Katherine's daughters was named after her). There were a good five years or so between Blanche dying and the affair between Katherine and John beginning, so he certainly didn't betray the memory of his first wife. (His second wife is another matter, of course!) I think he really loved Katherine as well, their affair went on for many years, and there's plenty of evidence he cared for her (such as taking her with him rather than his wife, giving her a large allowance, etc.). As you say, we can never really know, and the truth is probably far more practical than romantic, but I do really think they cared deeply about one another.

[@maureenanglim2927]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople I think that John married Blanche out of ambition -- initially,. She was the only heir of the Duke of Lancaster, who was the richest man in England at the time, or close to it. John probably came to care for Blanche, but it was arguably one of the most advantageous marriages in English history. John got Lancashire, and the biggest palace in London (which sadly burned to the ground). His marriage to Constance was also politically motivated and born of his ambition and nothing more. John looked to gain a throne for himself somewhere in Europe, not caring where or by what means -- and Spain looked the easiest. However, he was destined not to achieve that. I don't think he truly loved Blanche, but protocol dictated that he be buried with the wife of the highest standing and that would have been Blanche, since her wealth far outstripped Constance's. Katherine, however. . . I do believe he loved Katherine. It wasn't advantageous to him, it didn't feed his ambition, it didn't do anything but provide him with more children. Ironically, all of his progeny produced kings and queens. Henry Bolingbroke, Henry VII, Henry VIII, and all the rest of the Tudors; the Portuguese royal house -- his daughter Phillipa married into and Henry the Navigator was his grandson. Catherine became Queen (and Regent) of Castile. As much as Victoria could be called Europe's grandmother, John could very well be called Europe's grandfather, since so many royal houses could be traced to him.

[@doriamurriola7188]

He was very inlove with Blanche, i remember that a poet back then wrote some kind of advice advising John not to mourn Blanche so much, but to continue living with less melancholy, so my educated guess is that 1 and 3 wife were love matches, 2nd wife was political

[@maureenanglim2927]

@@doriamurriola7188 That poet you remember -- was Geoffrey Chaucer, who just happened to be Katherine's brother-in-law, married to her sister Philippa, and who also happened to be in service to John of Gaunt. Chaucer is one of the most famous of English writers, and most famous medieval writers. Rumor has it that he was also in John's spy network, often acting as a diplomat of sorts while gathering whatever information he could for his master.

[@kc8ueu]

I also read Anya Seaton's novel in my teens; I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall and known the true story of Katherine.

[@BobJohnson648]

Henry Beaufort had a daughter he named Joan. She married a Stradling of St. Donats Castle in Glamorgan.

[@crocodiledundee8685]

Katherine is definitely history’s forgotten person to me. Nice video as always. BTW what is your opinion on King John.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you! 😊 She is definitely forgotten, especially for someone whose descendants would go into so many royal houses of Europe. King John I always have mixed feelings about. On the one hand, he really wasn't good as a king, and was a weak ruler as well as having some fairly nasty personality traits. However, he was also a fairly decent administrator, and he did try to hold things together in the face of other events pulling the Angevin empire apart. Losing Normandy and other French lands was a bad move, but there were forces from the other side in France, and it was already falling apart during his brother Richard's reign, as Richard was hardly in England. I probably agree with the majority assessment of John, in that he was a bad king, but like most historical people, I don't think he was all bad, either. His worst traits were likely exacerbated by being the youngest son who was likely to inherit nothing, as well. Just a quick note, since you suggested her to me, but Gwenllian ferch Gruffydd is next Sunday! Thank you so much for the suggestion, she really is an amazing legend and part of Welsh history, but I didn't know anything about her compared to events happening in England and France at the same time. 😊

[@crocodiledundee8685]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople excellent. Fantastic. Splendid. Terrific. I knew she’ll be someone interesting to you. I’ve been hard-pressed finding someone to cover her incredible story. At long last she can gain some much needed recognition.

[@beth7935]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople OMG, I'm so excited to learn about Gwenllian! I've only heard the tiniest bit about her, but she sounds like an amazing character we should know more about. More legendary Welsh people overall! (Continuing petition for Owain Glyndwr, or maybe his daughter Catrin?)

[@geoffreyrose5255]

16th great granny through 1 line. 16th great grand aunt through another.

[@patricialong5767]

what a hot mess was royal descent and the right to hold the throne!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

You're not wrong! And the rules around it could be especially bent if people thought the 'less related' guy would be a better king (or later, queen).

[@taniagarciaduenas8460]

❤(1002) In there years of Otto Charlemagne passed Germany the Holy Roman Empire created by Otto the great coronation in which he was elected by the Eastern Franks before the Saxon emperor Henry (|| It had been a struggle against the state and the church against the empire of Bisenzio 20:24 )

[@BobJohnson648]

Kathryn seems like a saint compared to some medieval women.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

She really does seem pretty well behaved other than being part of an adulterous affair!

[@deborahbrottmiller2948]

Cool

[@DenisePropper]

GOOD FOR HER ❤ 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@animallover6645]

wow what sinners, why they were upset is beyond me, they had affairs those days, though I do get the publics outrage.

[@janiecehamblen933]

I have a book on this and always thought it was just fiction.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

If it's the Anya Seton one, it's based on the real people but is heavily fictional! (It's still a gorgeous book to read, you just have to suspend belief, haha).

[@janiecehamblen933]

Most likely it is. Read it in high school. It was my Dads book, which he then gave to me as an adult.

[@jeanglendinning1860]

i always thought the surname was pronounced Swineford as her husband Hugh Swyneford had boars heads on his coat of arms

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

It may well have been originally, you make a good point! But I think it's one of those names/words which over time changed the pronunciation slightly - there are a lot of words that would have been said very differently in the 14th century.

[@ludovica8221]

19th great grandmother

[@sgilbert5753]

I am afraid that the Seton novel paints a severely distorted picture of Katherine's character and actions; such that the evidence pertaining to the real Kathrine is not recognizable, nor gleenable, from that fanciful romance novel. Case in point, the real Katherine did not suffer from any evidence of a broken spirit and contrite heart nor did she much suffer from poverty and neglect. The real biographical sketch of Katherine de Roet paints quite a different person and life than the Seton novel will have us believe or assume.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Luckily, I didn't use the Seton novel as a source! I've listed in my books section as it's a fun book to read, provided (as you point out) you take much of it with an enormous pinch of salt. I've very definitely pointed out it's fiction! 😊

[@rosalinda9236]

I don’t understand how did she become having a royal line when she is not royal

[@FishBoneD14]

Because she married a prince and her children were legitimized

[@FishBoneD14]

Though as the video noted legally her descendants could not ascend the throne but it's hard to defend strict legality during a war

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Exactly as FishBoneD14 says, as she married John of Gaunt and their children were later legitimised (and at that time, the paternal line takes precedence) her children were therefore considered royalty through their father. Think like William the Conqueror being royal enough to take a throne for himself, despite his mother being an ordinary person.

[@rosalinda9236]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople But their father was not a king

[@MEAJJEKL]

​@rosalinda9236 True, he was not, but his father was. The descendants of Edward III's sons caused the War of the Roses through their different lines of claim to the throne.

[@parkinsonga3092]

I can trace my ancestry back through the House of Lancaster and Kathryne was one of the better members. One of our ancestors was poor and married a commoner Margaret Stanley for money, provided by the Bishop of Ely her father, and another married Elizabeth Suggett for her money and estate in Virginia unfortunately Elizabeth had to move back to London due to having a baby fathered by a slave and the family since then has Nigerian and North African DNA.

[@jamellfoster6029]

I don't think I could have lived in medieval times as I doubt I would want a political marriage or business contract. I have to marry for love...

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

It's such a weird idea for us now, isn't it? But I think the biggest obstacle is that women simply couldn't choose to live alone unless they became a wealthy widow (and even then they were at the whims of the monarch of the time).

[@gayhendrie84]

Wow a story about Camilla?

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

The paralells are pretty similar! With the exception of the children involved, of course.

[@kathleenstoin671]

​@@HistorysForgottenPeopleAnd as I commented elsewhere, Katherine was said to have been very beautiful, and Camilla is plain as a tree stump.

[@nazlsenay7312]

..😊

[@exzombiequeen2552]

English women eh… all about money😆 As for the guy- well yes, he must have loved her. That’s unusual to this day actually, British marriages seem like business contracts to us (Eastern European immigrants living in the UK), with general rule for poor men: no money no girlfriend🤭

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thankfully I know that's definitely not true, although it may have been in this example! ☺

[@michellethomas7140]

Ugh I get a headache listening to this, I keep going back and forth between here and my genealogy. So many of these surnames are on my genealogy pedigree charts! 🤦🏻‍♀️ Lady Mary Boleyn is my 12X Great Grandmother. Those waters spring forth from way back, Royalty, Nobility! Like I said a headache! Legitimate, Illegitimate…… ? My head spins!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I understand - there have been times where I've muddled people up myself because there are so many with the same name, in the same generation, and then a bunch of distant cousins marry each other...it makes me wonder how anyone at the time kept track! 😂

[@michellethomas7140]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople Right?!! So many familial intermarriages! When I’m looking at my charts, I’m like wait is he married to her, wait is she a daughter or a niece, these people had no idea what they would do to my Anxiety head!

[@bennymoreira1443]

Can we please refrain from using images made by AI? Thank you.

[@amaracrow0501]

Turns out, according to my genealogy she was my ancestor....Kathryn that is.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

That's so cool! It also links you into several lines of royalty, too.