The Turbulent Life And Tragic End Of The Last Plantagenet | Margaret Pole

[@lfgifu296]

Istg executing a 67 year old woman, one who had looked after your daughter, is a different level of cruelty. Henry really was a monster, more than a “man of his time”

[@DarthDread-oh2ne]

Hi friend. Are you excited for history calling’s video tomorrow ? And guess what ? I was watching A documentary series about the silent era of Hollywood.

[@lfgifu296]

@@DarthDread-oh2ne Hello :) Why I’m excited as ever :)) interesting about the documentary! What’s its name?

[@DarthDread-oh2ne]

Hollywood: A American celebration of Silent film.

[@DarthDread-oh2ne]

The documentary series is old, it has interviews from some of the people who were part of the era.

[@lilacgirl-z8w]

Margaret's children escaped henry viii evil.

[@onagaali2024]

For Henry VIII to have his elder maternal 67 year old cousin executed and without trial or accusations, who looked after his daughter is notoriously heinous and unjust. Lady Margaret Pole deserved to live out her days in peace and dignity.

[@suziemartin3587]

Yes

[@onagaali2024]

@@LKMNOP Right, Edward Earl of Warwick was the cousin of Henry VII's wife, Elizabeth of York.

[@Geeronimo99]

Wealth and power monsters makes. Lawrence follow suite. Nothing changes.

[@Geeronimo99]

Lawyers ..

[@Butterflypegasus40]

The more comments I read about him and glean whatever knowledge the other commentators give makes me despise Henry viii more.

[@areiaaphrodite]

It melted my heart hearing how, even after Mary was declared illegitimate and sent away from court to live with Elizabeth and her household; Margaret was willing to work for free and cover all expenses for Mary in order for them to stay together. You can tell Margaret really loved Mary and probably saw her as her own daughter. After being barred from seeing Katherine, Mary definitely needed a kind, loving mother figure. RIP to Margaret's gentle soul ❤

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

That really got to me - it wouldn't have cost him anything, and I think it really does show what kind of character Henry VIII was. On the upside, as you say, it at least it shows the lovely relationship between Mary and Margaret.

[@ladyagnes7781]

Mary also needed to have backing of a Catholic as most of the faithful believers around her were being executed. Margaret stood up for her faith & for the frightened teen for whom she cared. I hope the Church finds it possible to complete the final step & cannonize her.

[@FrankTropea-u6q]

It really is terrible that Margaret was so horrible how she was killed, literary butchered to death. I wonder are there any descendants left ? Margaret did have a son and daughter who survived.

[@file13whereareyou]

England has had some very dark figures in history. Their punishmenrs

[@FrankTropea-u6q]

I really have personally prayed for all the victims of the Bloody Tower of London, especially the two young Princes in the Tower as they were just children when they were murdered, that these poor,murdered souls find eternal rest now in Jesus in Heaven and cease their haunting the Tower. I hope it works. Please everyone pray for these poor,tragic souls that they find eternal rest in heaven.

[@bellydancerkristen]

This poor woman was failed by every single man with any so-called power/authority over her. What a disgusting time to be a woman during this time and in this region on earth.

[@lilacgirl-z8w]

I never knew george wanted to marry Mary of burgundy.

[@lefantomer]

@@lilacgirl-z8w Is anyone really surprised at anything George wanted to do?

[@bradleyrocks618]

Don’t get it twisted, women didn’t have power but they certainly held influence and many had lots of money. Margaret Beaufort is a great example and her son become king. Peasants were treated bad all around but women did well in higher society. It wasn’t easy obviously but they did their thing a lot

[@lefantomer]

@@bradleyrocks618 Her son was a piece of power-mad trash just as she was. They brought down a king who actually cared about being able to provide some justice for his subjects as he clearly stated in his initial refusal of Parliament's petition to him. But all you can blather about is how "strong" these thugs were, how much money and "influence" that rhymes with witch Beaufort had accumulated to push her rat-face political hack of a son onto the throne. They prevailed because of people like you, and I would not be proud of it.

[@FloridaManVal]

@@bradleyrocks618now you have voting rights and your number one issue is being able to murder babies. Progress.

[@overcomerbtboj]

I just can’t get the picture out of my mind of this elderly old lady going to the scaffold - it was cruel and brutal and inexcusable of henry

[@lefantomer]

A lot of things were brutal and inexcusable of Henry, not to say the murder of two defenseless young wives. But then, he was so... colorful!! and many tend to forget, evade, or excuse what a p.o.s. he was.

[@overcomerbtboj]

@@lefantomer henry makes me glad that the days of absolute monarchy are over

[@Geeronimo99]

I bet the poor man who had to do it didn't want to.

[@oreo12ification]

It’s amazing to learn how poorly most all people surrounding Henry VIII were treated by him. The problem wasn’t them… it was HIM!! I definitely think he was severely mentally ill! Even today, I’m not sure he could be successfully treated… so crazy, so wrong, so sad❤❤❤

[@KimberlyPatton-x1n]

I think she was 67,which was elderly for the time.

[@samanthasandefer4995]

So awful and sad. Henry the 8th was a nasty, paranoid tyrant. Such a horrible shame for such a kind and noble lady to be treated thus and to suffer such a painful end. Thank you for remembering her and telling her story!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it! ☺

[@TransKidRevolution]

VIII

[@taniesha64]

It's crazy because his mother was so pleasant and nice.

[@edpe64]

We should be careful of judging late medieval behaviour with modern eyes. We need to remember that the King or Queen regnant was an absolute monarch apart from paying little lip service to Magna Carta. Protecting your dynasty and your rule was the most important task for a monarch. Henry VIII was short on male children to carry on the Tudor dynasty. Also he had radically changed the status of the Catholic faith in England and Wales. Margaret Pole was a lightening rod for Catholics wishing to usurp Henry's rule as she had a claim to the throne. We live in very different times. And yes executing an elderly woman was not a compassionate move but MP showed herself to be bright and astute. Combined with a claim to the throne and healthy children she was a danger.

[@JacqueScherrer]

Thank you for making this video. I’m a direct descendant of Margaret through her son, Henry. She is my 15th great grandmother. It’s crazy how the whole family was just slaughtered. 😢 The story of Margaret’s death makes me sad every time I hear it. It’s just evidence of how paranoid Henry VIII had become.

[@maryromero5709]

Hello... I'm also direct granddaughter Thur her daughter .....to this day there is a lot of great grand childens .....so she is alive in all of us and she is one of my favorite ancestors....grandmother.. I hope that I will go back to London.... I want to put a white rose for her and red roses for the family members that was put to death at the tower

[@JacqueScherrer]

@@maryromero5709 hello cousin (though incredibly distant). Margaret is one of my very favorite’s too. She was beatified as a martyr by the Catholic Church, and while I’m not Catholic, I recognize her annual feast day, May 28th. I also hope to visit her resting place and the Tower Green one day to place flowers. I’m American and it’s not so easy to just pop over there. I’m related, in some way, to most of the people whose name is on the plaque on Tower Green, put to death on the scaffold, including Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard who are both my 1st cousins 16 times removed. It was overwhelming to stumble upon these historical characters in my family tree and through the journey, I learned far more about English history than I ever thought I would’ve known. It’s all so fascinating.

[@alisonbrowning9620]

i love discovering aristocratic ancestors, my more recent ancestors were working class people but i found Arundell, Breton dukes and Sir Peter young, tutr to King James 1st of England and 6th of Scotland. One of my Arundell ancestors was beheaded at the tower, sir Thomas, brother to my 13th great grandfather sir john. I love family history and it brings them alive. it is tragic what happened to Margaret and her brother.

[@areiaaphrodite]

*Henry VIII

[@JacqueScherrer]

⁠@@areiaaphroditethanks. I knew that. I must not have hit the “V” hard enough to take and didn’t notice before committing my comment. Typo on my part. Thanks for pointing it out.

[@marcietorrence5361]

You make it to age 67 against the odds, and then a nutjob at the helm executes you, unfair!

[@laurag7295]

Henry was having to leave the country, and had to clear out the possible people who could have any sort of claim to the throne, nothing personal, just business.

[@Goodiesfanful]

Poor Margaret Pole is best remembered for her horribly botched execution. Even for those brutal times it was horrifying.

[@karengilliland2439]

Yes, it was horrible. I have read that she was an old, scared woman, and was trying to get away from the block, the executioner was inexperienced, and it took 11 blows to finally sever her head from her body. Very botched and cruel execution for a woman who had done nothing wrong except be one of the last Plantagenets.

[@lefantomer]

@@karengilliland2439 Typical of the Tudors -- the darlings of the "bad Hollywood" brand of Brit monarchy.

[@christyhollis7909]

You have Margaret pole beautifully done. I wish for others could have her hard tragic life explained as well as you just did. I didn't understand her younger years until now but she had sadness and hope and end in horrific way. Thank you for this woman that was the last plantagenets

[@lilacgirl-z8w]

Her soul is at peace so let's be thankful.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Aww, thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed the video. 😊 Margaret really did start out with so much going for her in life, and she really tried to keep fighting while keeping her dignity and kindness, and she met a horrible end just because of her bloodline.

[@alty5214]

Yet another reason to despise Henry VIII.

[@janina8559]

Her story would make a great miniseries! I could see people not knowing about her shocked by the ending. She had quite a turbulent life.

[@tuikkur.5655]

Three Margarets of this era, I've always been fascinated about: Margaret Beaufort, Margaret Pole and Margaret Tudor.❤🥰 Thank you for this excellent video of Lady Margaret Pole who lived so gracefully and died a death she most certainly did not deserve. I would also like to point out how much I enjoy listening to you. English is not my native language, but you make it easy to understand for me. I didn't have any trouble at all to keep up. I didn't even have to use subtitles! I'm definitely going to look into your channel more closely soon. Thank you and greetings from Finland! ❤

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Oh, wow, thank you so much! I'm so glad you enjoyed the video. ☺

[@helpinyerdasellavon]

Great video on Margaret Pole, the best I've seen on this historical figure. Love how your work is always well documented and beautifully done with high quality format. You're channel is by far my favourite 💕👑

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Aww, thank you so much! ☺That means a lot. I really wanted to do a lot of research on Margaret Pole as I think she's such an unknown figure in some ways, even though her death is so famous.

[@BeeKool__113]

I would also like to add that I am really glad that Margaret was there with Mary(later Queen Mary)Tudor during a very difficult time in her young life. At least for some time Margaret was with Mary before Henry removed her of her charge of caring for her young royal cousin. I always felt deep sympathy for Mary Tudor who would later be known as Bloody Mary. I often think what her life could have been or how things might have turned out differently for her had Mary been shown more compassion and love. By no means am I excusing Queen Mary I of the atrocities that were later committed in her name during her reign. From my readings about Mary I, I can't help feeling sorry for her sad life but I often see her kinswoman, the Contess of Salisbury as a strong influence and beacon of light in her life during some turbulent times. I think Mary could have gone on to be far worse if it had not been for that matriarchal guidance in her formative years by Maggy Pole. That's just my thoughts about Mary I and the Contess of Salisbury.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

No, I totally agree! If Mary hadn't been denied a mother figure of any kind, she might have been softer in years to come. I think her later actions were exacerbated by not being able to publicly blame her father, either, from the fact he was anointed king, to the fact it was 'your father is in charge' in the 16th century.

[@AnnaGoldberg-f4t]

The best thing Edward the Fourth did in his reign was get rid of George, Duke of Clarence. Richard of Glousceter did take good care of Margaret and her brother, the Earl of Warwick.

[@davidlappleby]

As others have pointed out, George was older than Richard. George Duke of Clarence was born 1449. Richard of Gloucester was born in 1452.

[@matthewmirabella9226]

That is correct. George was born in 1449. Richard (1452) was younger than George.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

I made an error in recording, and have fixed it now! (At least once KZbin has finished processing the changes). I'm only human and sometimes I make a silly error without thinking about it! My script said his 'other brother' as it's supposed to, and my brain added 'older' without thinking about it. Thank you for noticing it. 😊

[@conniecondra4535]

You are correct. However, since George had been killed, Richard should have inherited the crown, not Edward IV’s son.

[@davidlappleby]

@@conniecondra4535 That is true but not relevant to the point I and others were making.

[@Sannahmusic]

How terrible to die in such a way, especially for an obviously innocent lady!

[@sheryldalton8965]

Heny's royal bloodline was so sketchy he wanted to erase the Plantagenet's. Since his offspring didn't reproduce his bloodline didn't last long. He was a monster.

[@susanlett9632]

He had plantagenet blood in him his mother was a plantagenet he was insane

[@janerogers2101]

"Behind every great fortune is a great crime." This is was truer then than it is today. The people at the top are monsters. H8 was worse than most.

[@English_Dawn]

So tragic. She deserved better. 🙏

[@Philip-bk2dm]

Fascinating. Beautiful graphics. Many thanks.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it! 😊 The graphics get more stressful every time I do Tudors, as Midjourney does not appreciate the intricacies of a Gable Hood headdress, and instead turns all the women into fancy nuns! 😆

[@deborahbrottmiller2948]

He couldn’t get Reginald so had to settle for Margaret.

[@BeeKool__113]

Right?! I always thought Henry was such an @$$ for many things but this one of his worst actions. Such a coward to go after an elderly woman who I am sure he truly knew was innocent. And, she was his kinswoman too!! Poor Margaret deserved much much better than she received through all her trials in life and then her tragic end.

[@RavenIdril2966]

I'm glad other share my sentiments.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Oh, absolutely! I'm sure that Henry thought by killing Margaret off it might spur Reginald to do something hasty as well, or at least break him in some way. It's telling that neither happened, due to a lot of factors.

[@joebertdaineramos7835]

Very true..

[@crocodiledundee8685]

I have a video request for you. Domitia Longina Corbulo, daughter of one of Rome’s greatest generals who was executed by Nero who then became the wife & empress to the paranoid & cruel Emperor Domitian, the youngest son of Vespasian who was later assassinated with Domitia, allegedly, being one of the conspirators. Its a fascinating story of political intrigue like something out of Game of Thrones that I reckon you’ll enjoy researching.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Oooh, I haven't done anything Roman yet - good shout! I've also thought Domitia's story was such a fascinating one, especially how she ended up Empress. I will definitely be putting her on the list for a (soon-ish) video! 😊

[@williethomas5116]

Margaret was older than brother Edward, Earl of Warwick.

[@crayzeedayzee]

Henry VIII was a complete abomination and clearly narcissistic! His father wasn't great either! Clearly if Richard III had survived, then Margaret would clearly have had a better life! That poor lady brave to the very end!💞💞

[@TransKidRevolution]

Ah yes Richard, the guy that had his own nephews murdered. Great guy🙄

[@janerogers2101]

There is no way to know this. Being descended from the Duke of Clarence actually gave her line the better claim to the throne than those descended from York. There is no safe place to land in a family as dangerously and psychopathically violent as her own.

[@yehuditcollins6783]

​@festina_lente7655 Never proved. If he wanted to despatch the boys, they could have died a "natural death". That would have allowed Richard to show the bodies, and prove their death conclusively. The one who had most to lose if the boys were still alive, was the usurper Henry Tudor. He had no real claim to the throne. He did have a dreadful mother, who had access to the boys. Read a bit more about it. Nothing was said about the death of the Princes during Richard's life time. O ly after his brutal death did the Tudors make the claim of murder. Not saying he didn't do it, but it's not likely.

[@RavenIdril2966]

Margaret's bloodline is still alive.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

It certainly is! The term 'The Last Plantagenet' is used to mean the last erson descended from the main line who had that name at birth, usually. There are still a small amount of people who have that surname, but they are not direct line descendents.

[@maryromero5709]

Yes...so true....but my branch ends with me. I'm the last.ty

[@cammyrubin2512]

Though there are direct descendants (my ancestors) that moved to North America that changed their surname from Plantagenet to Plant. They left England because they did not like the current king at that time. I have my family traced back generations before War of the Roses, Margaret was certainly not the last of us, we are still very much alive today. The lady who created this video does not have all her facts researched properly.

[@cammyrubin2512]

No Mary, you are not the last Plantagenet - you have many distant cousins, myself included.

[@cattattack1293]

Same, hello cousins~

[@brylcreemy]

She might have been better off as the Duchess of Milan. Courtiers during Tudor rule had to walk a very careful line that could snap at any moment.

[@annasmall3901]

They say Henry’s personality changed drastically after the jousting injury. It’s blamed on how he coldly executed Anne and Katharine Howard. Could have been brain damage.

[@bec9696]

As someone who unfortunately has a permanent spinal injury, I can say from pre-injury to now that I have little tolerance, can be irrational for nothing, and the smallest things can set me off. I was a mum with young kids, climbing trees, bouncing on trampolines and nearly finishing my teaching degree. My kids even had recoders (the noisy things). I was fun! Sadly, now, some days, honestly, more than not, I cringe when they're giggling, and normal household noise makes my nerves feel like fire. I often think about how Henry's personality changed, and it most probably was the injury and constant pain. I struggle mentally and emotionally with two, let alone a whole reign!

[@sherryd3299]

That theory has been debunked. If you look at the dates you'll know Henry VIII was executing his courtiers before he had the jousting accident.

[@RhosynGwyn]

Just to add Anne got the sword a cleaner kinder death if a death can be kind katherine was by axe because of her actual infedility with culpeper

[@polasingerofficial]

Possibly McLeod syndrome… some historian suggest that he had Kell blood type which can cause miscarriages. Individuals with that blood type can have McLeod syndrome

[@bearonaromp7473]

Henry the VIII was a murderer, adulterer, traitor, philanderer, liar, and capricious, but other than that- hey he was a great guy!

[@starsailor49]

Yes, he also had a Darker side to his character.

[@laurag7295]

​@@starsailor49syphilis can fo that to people!

[@skokian1able]

@@laurag7295especially when combined with a seeming cluster B personality disorder(s).

[@luxste]

​@@laurag7295 Many historians now say that Henry did NOT have syphilis. Either way, it doesn't excuse his horrendous behavior.

[@kimberliepopovich5960]

I always admired Margaret for everything she had to endure. She was a women that loved her children and tried help everyone. She was pious and dedicated to helping make peace. She didn't deserve how she was treated.

[@altinaykor364]

Thank god the way you explained everything was much more comfortable than the version which Philippa Gregory gave us! I felt much more comfort and less disturbed while watching this video, because of knowing at least Margaret did have some peaceful years and strong enough to continue living despite all of tragedies, while through Philippa Gregory's works, it's as if you have entered in order to get depressed! I'm still waiting for you view on William The Silent, do you remember?

[@lfgifu296]

Oh, I have a video request- quite a selfish one given we have the same name and she was Queen of Portugal hehe- Amélie of Orléans, or “Rainha Dona Amélia” of Portugal. She was the last Queen of Portugal (her husband, Carlos I, was assassinated and their son was King for two years but didn’t marry), and a fascinating character, surrounded by rumours, but a very brave woman who suffered much (also, she died in October 25th, the day I was born [different years, ofc] and we do have a lot in common hehe :)

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Not selfish at all! You're one of my bestest supporters on my channel and have been for a long time, you go ahead and make a request! 😊 I will definitely add Amélie of Orléans to my list, she sounds really interesting. Thank you for the recommendation!

[@lfgifu296]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople aww :)) thank you! Tbf though you make it easy to be a supporter🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

[@sablewright8053]

I have to add another comment, if this poor dear woman had absolutely no hatred for Henry VII and Henry VIII after what they did to her and her family, she was a true saint. I couldn't even look at King Henry VII or even be in his presence knowing that he sent one or more of my family members to the executioners block. He sent her brother to the block and she still had to be part of the court and on some level deal with him and his horrifically cruel son Henry VIII when he went paranoid and began trying to slaughter the remander of her family. I shake my head with a sense of sadness 😔 for her.

[@calreed4441]

So many random nobles put to death during this time... I'd have been terrified...

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Same here! I always say I'd have happily been the tavern-keeper's wife. Comfortable enough, everyone likes you because you serve the beer, not in the gutter, but not likely to get a head chopped off either. 😂

[@RonJeffryes]

I love that she named her daughter Ursula, the meaning behind it, is nothing short of FANTASTIC

[@dianacryer]

If I were alive during the medieval, or even the renaissance periods, think I would be happy just being a land owning peasant.

[@TransKidRevolution]

If you were a peasant then you wouldn't have owned land.

[@stephaniezini]

Right, me too. But then probably just for growing herbs and like helping a neighbor out with a stomach ache by giving them some herbs, or helping someone out with their birth and things going well, I'd be gossiped about and accused of being a witch and I'd be burned at the stake! 😂

[@dianacryer]

@@stephaniezini 😆😆😆 Right?

[@shelaghmoore-h4f]

@@dianacryer Wrong. Being a peasant meant you were in effect owned by your lord, You had to work for him, and you could not leave his lands without his permission. You had d to give him part of your crop, or money as tax,. if you were male you would have to fight for him in any conflicts and you could be thrown off your land for the slighest thing. You keep dreaming that Disney fantasy.

[@asha4736]

I can't lay hands on it any more, but I remember reading a study that estimated peasants in the 11th century were about as contented with life as it is possible to be; They had no knowledge of the wider world, and often not much of an inkling into national politicking either; they just had their routines and their families and that was it. No expectations of greatness or a niggling feeling of what could be, just actual life in the moment. I don't know that I wholly believe it, but it definitely makes some sense

[@ladylianhua]

I feel so bad for the entire House of Plantagenet & York, Lady Margaret Pole, Mary Queen of Scotts, Margaret Tudor and Grey Sisters.

[@BeeKool__113]

I just LOVE this channel!! Always such riveting and educational stories. I always had a great admiration for Margaret. She was so resilient. She survived through so much. Such an incredibly strong woman who lived a remarkable life. But met a tragic end. 🤍🌹👑

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you, it's great to have you here! 😊

[@cowsal77]

Margaret Pole, pray for us in our politically troubled times that we may not, once again, be subject to the whims of tyrants and psychopaths...

[@diannelavoie5385]

Amen.

[@lefantomer]

In his reply to being petitioned by Parliament to take the crown, Richard soon to be III, said: "there is more labor and more pains in the government of a kingdom than pleasure or delight, especially to the prince who would use the kingly authority and royal office as it ought to be used." He would know, having by that time a reputation of trying to provide justice for his subjects. The Tudors could not have cared less about that. Yet guess whose reputation has been the sullied over the centuries while Henry VIII and his like are often glamorized. Thanks very much to this series for providing facts and perspective not always found elsewhere!

[@tankgirl6446]

Donald Trump

[@luxste]

​@@tankgirl6446 Glad I'm not the only one who sees the similarities. It's truly terrifying.

[@tankgirl6446]

@@lefantomerim not sure henry 8 was exactly glamorized or his bloody daughter. And Elizabeth was just as bloody as her sister! She just had better PR.

[@grahamdeamer128]

Curious coincidence that you were publishing this video just a day or two after my interest in this poor woman was first piqued upon viewing her Chantry Chapel at Christchurch Priory.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Very good timing! ☺

[@alwina2452]

I have only very recently discovered your channel, and I absolutely love it! I have watched several of your videos, and they are all very good, I find your angle so refreshing, and what a delight to find someone exploring the women of the past in such great depths. I have always found Margaret Pole to be a compelling character, who, as you say, is often sighted for the terrible nature of her death, rather than her many virtues in life, so thank you so much for this video which certainly addresses this. A xx

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you so much, that means a lot! I'm glad you enjoyed the video, and I do try to show as much as I can of someone beyond the few events they are often famous for. 😊

[@pioneercynthia1]

..."threw his toys out of the pram about it." What a great expression! 😂😂😂

[@kaykarahalis829]

Poor Margaret! May she rest in the deepest of peace

[@gonefishing167]

Poor, poor Margaret. She did not have a good life. Her execution is down to Henry’s paranoia, hope it weighed heavily on both his conscience and her sons! Reginald I mean. Mean minded, jealous man that he was. 🙏🙏🙏👵🇦🇺

[@altinaykor364]

I won't call it paranoia anymore after watching this video! for years, despite having her locked up, he was still looking after her and making that prison as comfortable and luxurious as possible for her (it's not exactly a good kind of life, but I guess for the kind of position she was put into, it was best out of all worse) and suddenly out of no where, for no reason at all, he decides to execute her! like, what? where did that came from? made me sure that he really was crazy and not even sure with himself

[@paulinecrabbe7383]

Sadly those evil nutjobs don't have a conscience. Thats how they carry on and sleep at night

[@Geeronimo99]

She was obviously naturally regal. Bad characters don't like that. Admirable lady. Good cast.

[@tankgirl6446]

Karma is real. Only son, died!

[@smithamy1982]

After watching The White Princess, I'm glad I decided to watch this because they portrayed Margaret Pole completely differently. I'm pretty sure they even got her parents incorrect or made it so vague, it was hard to tell. I've had a horrible opinion of her, based solely on the misportrayl of her, which I've never done before but so little information is available about her.

[@gracehaven5459]

I'm really into genealogy and this woman was actually one of my ancestors... at least now I know generational trauma goes Way Way Back....

[@jazminmuro9692]

This was one of the true victims of court corruption but also her test of faith. Margaret Pole was a person who was faced of tragedy and dead loved ones. She did everything she could to keep herself alive and her children safe from starvation, poverty and treason. I think she would had been executed because she was the plantegnet and york only heir around. And people of England already was displeased with king henry the viii if his divorce, beheading his wives and break church of rome.

[@zackhalter9571]

Great video!❤🎉

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed the video, Margaret Pole is a favourite of mine. 😊

[@lfgifu296]

For the question, I am entering Queen consort’s territory👹 How would you order the Plantagenet Queens consort from best to worst? For me, it’d go Eleanor of Aquitaine, she did cause quite the stir during Henry II’s reign, but with sons like that I feel like her help wouldn’t have been needed for it to happen eventually, plus she held things together during Richard and John’s reigns- I can’t but admire her greatly Phillipa of Hainault- all in all what a Queen should be, I feel- not passive but not aggressive, and did an amazing job in raising her kids, especially when it came to a sense of a unified family (even though that sadly didn’t pass down over the generations :’) Eleanor of Castile- was a great patron for many things, loved by her husband, kids and people (plus we got the Eleanor Crosses out of her tehehe) Margaret of Anjou- ok hear me out: she is considered the worst by some, and the cause of the Wars of the Roses, but I believe the two main causes for the Wars were Henry VI’s weak rule (I think he was a kind chap, I do, but not suited for kingship) and the selfishness of Richard, Duke of York, Throw in the ambition of Henry’s advisors and you got yourself a civil war. I think Margaret was what prevented the Yorks from winning it all much sooner, it was her efforts in fighting for her husband and son that continued to press on the Yorks, and I think the Lancastrian cause would’ve died very quickly were it not for her. Nor do I think she was greedy for power for herself- I believe she was fighting for her son and his right to the Crown. She also must’ve had very thick skin, but, in the end, suffered so much, she literally lost everything :( Isabella of France- I like the She-Wolves haha- she was a helpful consort in Edward’s early reign, and, when said reign became unbearable to nearly all, she pushed him out. Now, her regency gig w Mortimer wasn’t good, but her takeover of the throne did nevertheless lead to Edward III taking the throne. I also think she did a great job in raising him. Anne of Bohemia- a calming influence to her husband, grew up in and cultivated a sophisticated court. Catherine of Valois- tbh Idk much about her, but she did spawn the Tudor Dynasty so, kudos to her Eleanor of Provence- it’s getting harder now lol, she was, in part, to blame for the poor finances in her husband’s rule, as he was so very generous😭 but there were other causes for it, and as a person I like her Elizabeth Woodville- I don’t like her very much tbh, and I think she and her family would’ve benefited from collaborating with Richard rather than further antagonising him. Nevertheless, she was an effective consort, ig, and her rags to riches story is fascinating Joan of Navarre- she was unpopular and seen as greedy and overall mean, but Idk how much of that is rumor and how much is fact. She was also accused of plotting against Henry V, but that is questionable at best tbh Isabella of Angoulême- she was little more than a child when John wed her, and I don’t think she is to blame for the sh*tshow that was his reign, but she comes off as haughty to me, and not an easy person to deal with, rather treacherous at times, even? This last one may be a rumour. Now these 3 are the ones we don’t really know much or anything about: Anne Neville- I really wish we had more records of her istg Berengaria of Navarre- I mean she didn’t even set foot in England poor girl had no chance😭 Isabella of Valois- she was 7 to 11 years old💀

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Okay, so leaving out Anne Neville, Berengaria of Navarre, and Isabella of Valois, as they get a free pass due to extenuating circumstances; Starting with best: Philippa of Hainault - I have a total soft spot for this lady. Amazing queen, brilliant consort, great mother, and she did it all while being kind, sweet and dignified. I mean, I'm not like that, but I can hope! 🤣 Eleanor of Aquitaine - She was again, a brilliant queen, but she was way more fiery than Philippa of Hainault. I admire that she stuck up for her own lands and autonomy, and I actually think she wouldn't have gone so hard on that had her husband not had a very public affair. And she was definitely the linchpin of the family. Margaret of Anjou - I hear you, trust me! She did make some errors during her queenship, but honestly, she was stuck between a rock and a hard place. The country was falling apart anyway, and then when her husband went into a catatonic state, some Duke decides to butt in and take the throne from her newly born son. She didn't take it lying down, and she fought for her son and husband even when she wasn't popular. Margaret's only real error was that she wasn't political *enough* against those on the opposing side. People were already against her when she arrived because she was French, and she still managed to create her supporters despite this. Isabella of France - probably shouldn't be this far up the list, but honestly, I just want to go back in time and high five her, haha! She put up with a LOT, and really did try to be a good queen about it. When she had the opportunity, she had taken so much crap off her husband that it broke her and she went with the first attractive man who (likely) promised her the fantasy she wanted. Unfortunately, she then goes down a little for being a bad judge of character, and not siding with her son instead of Mortimer when the choice came down to it. Anne of Bohemia - Seems like a kind and popular queen, did a lot to help ordinary people when she could. Sadly didn't live long enough to do more. Catherine of Valois - she was a nice enough person, again, one of those queens who wasn't queen long enough to make an impression in that way. I think she fell in love and married for love, so good for her regardless of her time. Maybe Elizabeth Woodville next? I like some parts of her personality early on in her reign, but then I don't really like the parts that came to light after Edward IV's death. If she and her family KNEW Richard wouldn't get on well with them, now was the time to bury the hatchet and try to come to a compromise. Yes, he went nuclear option too, and that definitely puts him way down any list for me, but Elizabeth didn't even try. Having said that, she was, by all accounts, a capable queen consort, which is more impressive considering she wasn't raised for the role. She's a tricky one as I go back and forth with her. Eleanor of Provence - I agree that she was maybe partly to blame for finances, and partly not. It's difficult as a lot of the sources about her were written by people who didn't like her, so who knows how much is true! She was well-educated and a good patron though, and it mostly seems to have been a Margaret of Anjou situation, where people got annoyed because she was 'foreign' and brought many of her relatives with her. Isabella of Angoulême - Oooh, she is such a tricky one, again. I think she was forced into an 'adult' role far too young, and as a result never really developed into a more mature person before having power in any form. She had a bad temper, and again, that's probably down to immaturity, but she never changed as it often got her what she wanted. As you point out, a lot of the conspiracy stuff surrounding her could probably all be false, and there is so much around both her and John that is likely to be false propaganda, and I admit I've not looked into it deeply enough. But she certainly didn't make anyone's lives easier, and she sounds like a very difficult person to get on with. Eleanor of Castile - Her death left some lovely 'Eleanor crosses' for architecture, and she was a great patron of the arts and culture of England. She was well liked by a number of people, and seems to have a good wife and mother. However, she also profited from a lot of dodgy dealings, including a lot that involved the exploitation of England's Jewish population (including profiting off the hanging of a large number of Jews), and she didn't seem to have an issue with it. Find that very uncomfortable, even for the time she lived in. Joan of Navarre ends up at the bottom of the list, but like all these lists, I don't completely dislike her, either! LOL. She didn't really make an effort to get on with the English people, and she preferred to stick to her Breton entourage. She was described by many sources as being greedy and somewhat selfish, and generally not liked by a lot of people. A good thing in her favour is that was a good mother and stepmother. Yeah, the conspiracy stuff against Henry V is difficult, but not impossible...but also because he took her son, the Duke of Brittany, as a prisoner. If she did plot against the king, it was no doubt stirred by maternal instinct.

[@lfgifu296]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople Yeaaah I was really debating whether to put Eleanor of Aquitaine of Philippa of Hainault first- Eleanor’s feistiness puts her down but her achievements push her up! I agree that Philippa is the ultimate goal as a person!

[@lfgifu296]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople I didn’t know that about Eleanor of Castile! She might go down a couple of spots for that- always great to put Margaret of Anjou up😌😌

[@paulinecrabbe7383]

I'd wager George poisoned her himself, accusing others to throw off suspicion on himself.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Honestly, although there's no proof and I like to deal in certainties, it wouldn't surprise me if that turned out to be true.

[@sonofherne]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople I think George may have been maligned like Richard. He was certainly greedy and fickle but I suspect he really believed Isabel was poisoned. He even accused the Sheriff of Wiltshire who had been close enough to be called a 'friend.' This 'friend' later became a Tudor supporter. Bishop Stillington was gaoled around the same time as George but the reason why was never revealed. I believe he may well have told George what he later told Richard...about Edward's marriage irregularities. No real reason for him to lie--he was NOT rewarded by Richard in any way for that information. Tudor thought Stillington dangerous enough to imprison him in the Tower, despite his old age, and he died there. There were various conflicting rumours about Edward's marriage to EW long before 1483 and knowing his reputation, it would not surprise me if he had married a woman before Elizabeth using the same methods of a secret marriage. Pre-contract is not an engagement as some think...it was regarded as a marriage.

[@johnmichael7570]

The Plantagenets aren't gone. We are here amongst you even to this very day.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Yes, but the term is used to indicate the last of the main line of the family that used the Plantagenet surname. There are a number of people still with that surname, but they usually don't trace back to this particular line of Plantagenets.

[@bethphillips-ware1408]

Yes we are.

[@TransKidRevolution]

John and Beth both think they're Plantagenets😂😂😂

[@Jenifer_G]

Like to know more as my mothers side, by name, Robert DeBourge, half brother of William the Conqueror. But the name went to Ireland and England. Very hard to follow.

[@Nikkisavage100]

She was one of my ancestor, my 18th grand ma ! Sad death

[@TransKidRevolution]

No she wasn't.

[@Nikkisavage100]

@@TransKidRevolution yes she was !

[@Nikkisavage100]

@@TransKidRevolution Her son Henry is my ancestor, the daughter oh Henry catherine too, her son Walter Hastings too ....

[@Wisdom-Nuggets-Tid-Bits]

I am a member of the Plantagenet Society as was my mother (RIP). A very worthy society of superb heritage.

[@Jenifer_G]

Like to know more about this society.

[@Wisdom-Nuggets-Tid-Bits]

@@Jenifer_G NHello. So I am a member of a dozen of similar heritage societies like this one. And I can tell you that these ancestorial organizations will want you to have an actual ancestor you can trace back to this royal family. Once you acquire that name of that ancestor, you would then have to have proof of decendency by tracing the ancestry all the way up to yourself. For example, I am a DAR and a DAC (just to name two). And my grandmother and mother had done EXTENSIVE research and traced back family trees back to the Revolutionary War and back to the original 13 colonies of the US - then she traced all the generations up to the present time of her birth. You have to have bonified ancestry trees that are researched and documented. How do you do that? You get marriage records, birth records, divorce records, death records. It is a true maze of beauty. It is a lot more than just getting that DNA test. You have to have real documentation. Those are acquired by libraries that have seasoned genealogy departments, county records, city records, state records, and even federal records. Between my grandmother and mother, it took 60 years of genealogy research to get me where I am today. My mother was a member of 30 such wonderful organizations. I hope this helps.

[@FrankTropea-u6q]

Dear Wisdom Nuggets, Tell me, please - how does one contact The Plantagenant Society? Though I have a largely Italian Heritage, but I have been interested in that dynasty for a long time. According to a reliable gene test I do have an English admixture. And once a rather reliable psychic told my English genetics had a very distant connection to some very distant Plantagenant heritage. This psychic was fairly reliable in his other Info about me. Please tell me how to join that society. No email addresses please as I need a new computer

[@FrankTropea-u6q]

Frank Tropea

[@Wisdom-Nuggets-Tid-Bits]

@@FrankTropea-u6q Hello. So I am a member of a dozen of similar heritage societies like this one. And I can tell you that these ancestorial organizations will want you to have an actual ancestor you can trace back to this royal family. Once you acquire that name of that ancestor, you would then have to have proof of decendency by tracing the ancestry all the way up to yourself. For example, I am a DAR and a DAC (just to name two). And my grandmother and mother had done EXTENSIVE research and traced back family trees back to the Revolutionary War and back to the original 13 colonies of the US - then she traced all the generations up to the present time of her birth. You have to have bonified acestry trees that are researched and documented. How do you do that? You get marriage records, birth records, divorce records, death records. It is a true maze of beauty. It is a lot more than just getting that DNA test. You have to have real documentation. Those are acquired by libraries that have seasoned genealogy departments, county records, city records, state records, and even federal records. Between my grandmother and mother, it took 60 years of genealogy research to get me where I am today. My mother was a member of 30 such wonderful organizations. I hope this helps.

[@joebertdaineramos7835]

Henry the Eyghth was a monster!

[@phillipmoore9012]

Well done. Guilt by association. I have new ancestry lines that run through Henry VII.

[@emptyvoices31]

She's not forgotten. Catholics made her a saint, and she's the patron saint of childbirth and pregnant women. Her story of how her father was executed by his own brother, taken in by Richard III, who blamed Elizabeth Woodville for her father's death and then having to hide her name by being married to someone twice her age and then trying to survive in a Tudor court, wasn't forgotten.

[@digby3618]

😂😂😂 She was beatified, not canonised. She was not made a saint.

[@mousemd]

I see why Henry VIII wanted to make sure Anne had an easy way to go. He hired someone who was skilled

[@ronaldmartin2304]

She was my 11th great grandmother on my Mother’s paternal line.

[@janerogers2101]

11 generations ago would take one back to about 1749, which is 200 years too late for this woman to have been your 11th GGM.

[@FrankTropea-u6q]

I believe the cruel execution of Margaret Pole was a truly an atrocity. I believe that through married daughter there might be descendants in England still. Any royal afficiandoes out there who can know of such things?

[@ransomcoates546]

You’d hardly know from this that she was killed for remaining loyal to the Roman Catholic Church. She was beatified by Pope Leo XIII and is counted as one of the English Martyrs.

[@QwertiusMaximus]

Found out her grandson Henry Pole who was jailed with her stayed in jail after her execution, died possibly of starvation.

[@kittykatz4001]

Samantha Wilcoxson has written an historical fiction novel about Margaret Pole.

[@davidlappleby]

Was Richard the third's son already dead when Richard sent Clarence's children to Sheriff Hutton Castle? If not, Richard and Anne had an heir at that time.

[@RavenIdril2966]

That is a good question.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Apologies, I should have made it a little clearer in that part. Because I wanted to focus on Margaret, I squeezed 10 years into two paragraphs, and should have clarified better! Yes, at first their son was still alive. But by the time Edward was confirmed with the title Earl of Salisbury, their son had sadly passed away. If you're interested, I have done a video on Anne Neville that goes into more detail over those years. 😊

[@beckyringkamp-wells1619]

This poor woman. Henry was an evil man.

[@dkar09]

The picture of the guy is actually the actor that played richard not george

[@michaeldelgiudice1057]

so true of human nature to dwell on the gruesome and not on the worthy.

[@marymary1877]

Blessed Margaret Pole, pray for us.

[@goeegoanna]

Fascinating, thank you.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

My pleasure, I'm glad you enjoyed it! ☺

[@FloridaManVal]

The Tudor’s were a curse on England.

[@efibrilovski6374]

Henry was paranoid in the later years of his life and a man with this kind of power and such illness are a bad combo for anyone who opposes him, she would have been better off staying away from London

[@AnnaGoldberg-f4t]

Margaret Pole, Countess of Salisbury had a really bad dad who had aspirations of wedding with Mary of Burgundy which George, Duke of Clarence wanted to do but Edward the Fourth would not allow it.

[@altinaykor364]

it's heartbreaking that both Margaret and her brother paid the price of sins of their father!

[@Stevenmasonmommy]

Poor Margaret She had a such a hard life. And just as she's getting elderly thinking, she made it through all the craziness Henry Executed her because of someone else. Margaret is one of my favorite people in history. The strength that she had And bravery her whole entire life ❤

[@zackhalter9571]

Thanks!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you so so much, Zack! I'm glad you enjoyed the video. 😊

[@karenthomas1456]

Can I just mention that the very subtle music has been driving me mad because for ages I couldn't figure out where it was coming from. 🤔

[@ginalopez9047]

Jokes on him her bloodline still continues today his sister Margaret her descendants have the throne in today times it’s Henry the eighth fault that his bloodline no longer exists

[@Geeronimo99]

Gossip leads to death where foolish men abound.

[@BlackMarilyn61]

you used the picture of actor portraying Richard from the series when yiu were talking about George

[@rinazilona]

эта женщина пережила столько политических событий, видно была бельмом в глазу Генриха 8, вот он и казнил тетушку

[@saracorda86]

great pictures !! Made by A.I ?😉👌👍

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

A lot of them, yes! I use Midjourney, but I'm still learning to tweak it. 😊

[@suziemartin3587]

Yes you are right. Proof again that henry was an asshole.

[@sarahbritt1234]

Thanks!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Thank you so much! It's very much appreciated. 😊

[@christine3487]

Dearest Great gg grandmother ❤️

[@maryromero5709]

As she is my grand mother too.....18th

[@christine3487]

@@maryromero5709 my 11 th grandmother

[@christine3487]

@@maryromero5709 I'm through Ursala Pole

[@GriffMJ]

... I am a Plantagenet descendent on my Mothers side.

[@TransKidRevolution]

No you're not

[@cathywork2156]

This is my ancestor those were terrible times

[@TransKidRevolution]

No she isn't.

[@chrisruss9861]

They all prayed for the king on the execution block. What masochist s.

[@tonymcneil978]

I thought George was older than Richard.

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

Apologies, he was! I've made an error in the script and not noticed, I'll fix it and make a note.

[@jaimiesalid3141]

He was.

[@hannytierlierblaauw192]

Edward V was taken to the Tower who was then also a royal palace. Every king was crowned from the Tower so it was not that Richard of Gloucester had taken him prisoner but he did wat was normally done when a new king was being crowned.

[@annanardo2358]

Dangerous times they were. Kings and Queens in those days were themselves dangerous to their own kingdoms. The crown stole lands that were not theirs. They murdered left and right and were not held accountable for their actions. The monarchy today cannot allow themselves these oddasities , they would be barred from such as actions as executing whomever they pleased...😠😡😈👿😵

[@amberinthebox4462]

How do u get a last name like that. I want to know the history of that name. Like how did they end up with that name

[@susanlett9632]

Plantagenet? I believe it means bloom or spring bloom. It comes from Latin words. Planta and genista or genesta. I can't remember but I believe it means spring bloom.

[@susancaleca4796]

Feel so bad for her

[@margarita-ks7sw]

Nothing has changed in the world’s political manipulation of events, allegedly!

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

It's funny; the more history you learn about, the more you realise we're all running round in circles!

[@harperoconnor5285]

fascinating story, but I'd prefer historical paintings and landscapes to crappy AI depictions. The eyes and hands around 3:33 are creepy AF. Do better.

[@michaeldelgiudice1057]

did these people look anything like the AI images?

[@HistorysForgottenPeople]

As close as I can get it! I always use the known portraits of historical figures to create from, if they exist. If they don't exist, I create something from the known descriptions of them, again, if they exist. Sometimes there's neither, and I have to do a best guess! Unfortunately, AI still leans towards making most people look like supermodels as there are less photographs on the internet of ordinary people without make-up, etc.

[@michaeldelgiudice1057]

@@HistorysForgottenPeople wish ai would make me look like a supermodel. thanks for the explanation.

[@Queensofafrica8]

I’m a descendent of the Plantagenets through my father’s maternal side( mixed line)

[@TransKidRevolution]

No you're not

[@margarita-ks7sw]

What a mess!

[@crazykitten440]

Hmm, i did consider for a moment joining- i dont quite fit- I'm" Impoverished serf"- just can't afford You!😅

[@johnmortimer1308]

She has descendants I thought

[@maryromero5709]

She does.... I'm one ....she was my 18th great grandmother Thur her daughter.

[@katiemoyer8679]

@@maryromero5709 greetings “cousin”. 👋🏼👋🏼👋🏼

[@johnmortimer1308]

Yeah ! Isn’t Lalla Ward related to her too?

[@Itried20takennames]

Like 5 people on the comments claim to be descendants…

[@katiemoyer8679]

@@Itried20takennames , yep…many generations will typically see expansion of descendant numbers. Descendants of royals and nobility tend to have better documentation of lineages than most families and DNA testing has brought many realizations of ancestors they were not aware of. They also, upon realization of the ancestor, develop interests in the “history” presented. All in all, I’m grateful for the escape from royal court these ancestors did achieve. Plantagenets Live, basically traced thru maternal lineages. Siri says that over 30 million people can trace ancestry to the 102 passengers and the 30 crew on the Mayflower which landed on PlymouthBay in 1620…considerably later…(just to get a scale on descendent population potentials. ).

[@annechildress2721]

May God bless her soul

[@lyndamcmullen5506]

❤❤❤