HOBBY NIGHTMARES! HATED PLAYERS, INNAPROPRIATE ADVANCES, PAINTING WARHAMMER AT THE AIRPORT

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[@kaceeiacovone7840]

Strategems are the worst thing to happen to 40k since Matt Ward

[@MrLeviathan40k]

Completely get you on the topic of strategems. Really liking the Horus Heresy "Reactions". Everyone has the same two reactions for the movement, shooting and assault phase and one specifiy for your army/legion. Seven reactions overall. Nice.

[@thegreyknight1092]

I always use like 3-4 stratagems (bonus damage, healing, warlord buff, wildcard that i pick based on opponent).

[@DINONERD27]

First time I’ve actually caught one of these as it started

[@predator0319]

I agree on stratagems. I have a friend who when we would play he'd complain that my stratagems need a "Cooldown" or need to "Cost More" to use. But yet he uses all the Stratagems for his army that can be Gotcha Moments. I play Death Guard and yes we have a few Stratagems that can overkill or act as a gotcha but I choose those that allow me to hit harder or tank more. One time I said "Alright, let's try this" and I popped one of my stratagems that can shred through an enemy unit in melee (Haze Of Corruption, Basically acts as a Damage Spillover, but excess damage acts like Mortals without Mortals), and proceeded to use it on 2 units and they cut through his front line. He got mad and I said "I can do it again, I've been FARMING my CP

[@grisch4329]

That Captain Weekend story resonated with me so much. It's exactly why I just don't play at a store anymore. There are tons of stores around me, but every single freaking time I've tried to get in a pickup game it's been miserable. Every time I naively decide to give it another shot, I get some idiot who thinks it'll be funny to bring their unpainted, meta-tweaked, tournament winning, speedrun, no-hax, leafblower, netlist bullsh1t army to stomp on the new guy who's asking for a chilled narrative game. Literally even when you tell people you're not competitive and your army isn't competitive, they will STILL agree to a chilled game, and then bring their sweaty, try-hard list. I don't know what kind of satisfaction these people get out of doing this, but there seem to be a ton of them in the hobby. They're the reason I don't play at shops/clubs anymore and I'd rather wait months without gaming until one of my new-dad buddies gets a slot open to play at one of our houses.

[@gholamdapantaloonsniffer8218]

Literally had this on the weekend at my local club I play at. The Tau player was 200+ points over 2k without any upgrades (I'm new to the hobby and so didn't realise till I built his list at home) and also had the most meta Tau list with 2 hammerheads, Longstrike, Devilfish, 2x crisis commanders, 6 crisis battlesuits, 1x stealth suits, 2x kroot hounds, 1x kroot karnivores, 1x fire team, shadowsun and 2x riptides.

[@Grimangell135]

I have a friend who is a tourney player. They are a great friend, but they cannot play fluffy lists because of they are always in a competitive headspace. We've tried multiple times, but never ever ends well cause of how they play. Great human being and I love them, but cannot play fluffy games.

[@spoongebubbles9380]

I'm almost a year into the hobby now so maybe I haven't experienced enough feel bad moments but personally I love narrative games and I think stratagems make fun twists like a peak in an action scene, especially if I don't know about it. I had my 10 necron warriors make an 10 inch charge into some tau in cover to tie them up, when the tau turn came up they turned their shotguns into pistols and killed all 10! I was surprised but it was a fun twist in my eyes, after all this is war and some shenanigans seem fitting, I can see the thousand son warlord with smug eyes through their helm as the sister's flames were redirected by warp powers. Gotchas still tell fun stories, unless it's matched play they add flavor. Love the videos!

[@JachymorDota]

You can't reasonably expect every player to know 30-something stratagems for every faction plus whatever subfaction gets which extra bonus rules while locking said knowledge behind 30$+ books for each faction and subfaction. Make players choose 3 of them before the game, disclose them and we are golden.

[@mharpold128]

Looking back from 10th I can see why they drastically trimmed strategems

[@JamesPa]

thank you Northern , after 8 hours of airbrushing that was very relaxing !

[@bigdaveyeo350]

othe rtgan armour of contempt I nearly always forget to use strategems 😅😅

[@doctordoubledakka3939]

"3 stratagems, simple as"

[@captainweekend5276]

I've taken your advice to heart and I'm going to sit out the campaign this week and do some cursed city with friends instead, depending on how I feel I might sit the rest out as it's only got a couple weeks before it moves over to 40k anyway. Also whilst not discussed I think it's also likely I'm just not a fan of small games, I play 40k at a minimum of 1k, and the AoS campaign is limited to 750 which I feel has a tendency to make things wonky. Also I think you may have been just a little harsh on the other guys lol, like the nurgle player was a bit of an oddball but he was pretty fun to play against and wouldn't mind a rematch with him. Same goes with the manager, he literally cobbled his list together just before we were starting, but at the same time he does know StD pretty well. I know it does sound kind of one sided which is something I tried to avoid, but when I play against people I haven't before I do try to be the best I can be, but I think when telling a story from your perspective it's almost impossible to be completely impartial. Also sorry if the story dragged a bit, I wasn't sure how long it would take to read out when I wrote it, I have a few leaner stories I could send in, including some that I know I was maybe a bit of a nightmare for other people in retrospect, nothing that hasn't been already resolved between friends though.

[@northernexile]

I think you've made the right decision, nothing wrong with just stepping away and actually doing something that is fun for a change :) Free time is precious after all, why waste it getting bummed out?

[@WatoReinhardt]

It did sound really unfair, a path to glory should be super fun where you bring lists that are not over powered and instead you are telling stories. Can I ask how many heroes the std players had? And how many times did they summon horsemen or marauders ? Because it should only be 1 Per hero per game. You have to spend a cp to do it and you change your general each turn and that general can do it once per game. I hope you get a better experience soon mate AoS can be wonderful but it is frustrating when people play like this.

[@benjamindixon5630]

I like strategems but i dont use a whole lot of them. And usually I tell people that I can do something if they make that move.

[@DungusDingus]

If you're fighting an army you should always ask to see there list and read their stratagems.

[@northernexile]

Yeah but with the sheer amount of stratagems in the game you will likely be there for 2 hours reading before actually rolling any dice. That's not a well balanced or elegant game.

[@bopaintsminis]

Without stratagems armies like the imperial guard have nothing. They have no abilities in their data sheets. It's stratagems or nothing. And making the guard, already a shit-tier army, pay for warlord traits and relics will only keep them at the bottom.

[@cameronwixcey9692]

40k forgetting rules is a common thing. Having to remind my opponent about the core rules of their army. I don't like winning because I feel my opponent has forgotten his basic rules (e.g reroll wound for Ulthwe). I also think the same when I remember things like metachendrils.

[@bboyrickoshea]

"Was you clicking your fingers at the same time?" that line had me crying! hahaha brilliant! 😅

[@darko-man8549]

I like *reactionary* stratagems that let me do something ON TOP of what you are doing. But not “hahah you can’t do that”

[@JohnPC00]

As a Fantasy player I dont have any experience with Stratagems, but I do like the idea of them. I can see The Old World having something like that, but hopefully it's limited to making your guys stronger and less with fucking over your opponent. Suddenly being immune to attacks is not very interesting.

[@radamanthus]

The current state of 40k drove me to Kill Team. It’s not perfect but it’s much much better.

[@adammackanin1109]

I could Def do without strategems. I feel like it's yugioh with all these damn trap cards.

[@auricg7102]

I was fully on the writer's side the moment he said, "Might as well be playing matched play." Even when I'm in a power gamer headspace I hate gotcha ruleshammer either way. I enjoy stratagems, but going down to 3-4 in the core, 3 in a codex, then warlord traits and relics would be way better.

[@JRHawker12]

As a magic the gathering player, strategiums seem like a regular experience against a blue player. 😆

[@JanitorScruffy]

Heywoah turned me on to collecting and painting Age of Sigmar too, wild to hear someone else mention him, he's kind of a small channel, his army video is super entertaining.

[@gilbertzzz7110]

4:04 -I did not hit her... i did naaaht! Oh, hi Mark

[@norsewind8686]

The problem I have with stratagems is that they're turning previous unit abilities into one shot strategies for units which I'm not personally a fan of. For instance, deathmarks from necrons, they were a sweet unit before with their abilities but when you remove their abilities and now have to pay a CP for those abilities it just clutters up the game IMO.

[@mordenthex8554]

Strategy cards were taken out of 2nd edition for a reason. shit like this. Virus grenade and Vortex grenade comes to mind. lol :\

[@NornQueenKya]

Well be happy then, they're nerfing CP hard

[@AllThingsCubey]

Only pre-game CP. As you regen it twice as fast, stratagem spamming will be just as prevalent as before. All they have done is damage list building for many struggling armies.

[@NornQueenKya]

@@AllThingsCubey and cp for relics and wl traits. As for twice as fast... kind of. Getting the cp in your op turn is obnoxious for some armies, considering how fast you drain it and immedietly need the 2

[@AllThingsCubey]

@@NornQueenKya However it's spun, it doesn't do a damn thing to balance the game or address stratagem use beyond big turn 1 combos which are rare if the game has enough terrain. All they've really done is hurt armies which didn't need hurting.

[@Dan-bv3mf]

Strategems are for meta gamers and make the game more needlesly convoluted.

[@MechbossBoogie]

Honestly, I'm at a point with the game that the near constant rules changes make it feel like I'm playing more expensive Yugioh. Finally get comfortable in my casual play and come to find out they changed another rule and I have to re-tool my army. Starting to wonder if I should just stop playing games at all.

[@bopaintsminis]

The AoS campaign player is in the same position as 99% of imperial giard players in 40k. You can play fluffy fun games, or you can play a shit-tier army on the competetive scene. First Rule of Hobbying applies. Plenty of people like to play cutthroat competetive games. Go find them. Otherwise enjoy the hobby your way.

[@viorp5267]

I think there is a balance. Like on one hand if you don't enjoy playing don't force yourself, on the other if you just don't enjoy playing because you're loosing then that's no good imo. If every time you loose you quit you never let the other person have their moment

[@Dohyden2]

This is a classic psychological weapon used a lot by women. You tell them no and because they are embarrassed, or they have something else going on in their head they decide to try and turn it around and make you look like the bad guy. Instead of just dropping it and moving on.

[@Dohyden2]

Polyamory isn't necessarily cheating. But when one person says no then yeah, it's definitely cheating. Just because Britany thinks love is free, open and fluid (and maybe that's how she expresses love) does not mean you have to subscribe to that opinion. Also was this Britany woman planning for you to start a polyamorous relationship without telling your wife? hmmmmm?

[@autumnlotus6250]

The issue is that core abilities of a unit have been shifted into strategem. So removing them would mean effectively deleting a bunch of unit abilities. Making many units dumbed down and less interesting

[@dekai7992]

Agreed. Which means they should've never been divorced from their unit profile. Put those rules back in there, and design them in a way that's (inter)active instead of prohibitive and disruptive.

[@brassviking486]

So were stratagems meant to condense wargear special rules and add a tactical element? As an outsider they seem to add random buffs and gotchas. Also untargetable for a flamer? That's annoying. We've come a long way from the older rules where they cut through cover.

[@Deppy40]

Slaanesh was op when it was released, but after that, it became the bottom joke army. Points increases and abilities changes crippled the army to no end. Still, it's my favorite army and I have a lot of fun playing with friends. But the way the army got screwed by GW is very on theme with it :p

[@Dohyden2]

"Not that my community would dox you" unfortunately you aren't the determiner of that, there is no way to control who is watching your videos. So thank you for being mindful of people's personal information.

[@gavinkennedy5813]

As a death guard player I agree that stratagem suck next to non of them are useful, the only ones I like are the one that makes bolters plague weapons and the one for auto explosion

[@kylewells6871]

??? Regain wounds on daemon engines (great for the drone with fleshmower), turn 3 grenades into pistol 6 that auto hit while engaged, add 6" to a units plague weapons, 6" heroic intervention with drones, mortarions anvil letting any unit in your army heroic intervention for 1cp, blight bombardment for 2cp when LoV is on the field, bring up to 7 poxwalkers back once a game per unit, flash outbreak is useful when you take an additional contagion (gloaming bloat or the droning), there lots of really useful strats.

[@oldgrognard7662]

I've been around the game a long time but, full disclosure, I played a lot during 2cd-5th (still paint, etc and try to keep up with the rules craziness even today. Lol!). Even back then, the top 3 worst times I've had in 40K were with tournament players. One of those was disqualified over blatant list cheating. The army he was using was one I also owned but I wasn't using in the tournament, so I knew the Codex of the army well. He was using elites as troops and was also about 200 points over the tourney list max points-wise. All this was found out because I called him out on it quietly and he freaked out in a loud fashion. Store Owner investigated his heated response and he got DQ'd when the owner saw what was going on. I left the tournament too, just to keep the number of players easy to manage with just the manager there to run it. Honestly, I haven't played in a tournament since and this occured in about 2001 or 2002. The other two bad times were against tournament players who couldn't play a fluffy or fun game while playing with the large group of garage gamers we had, as they were always in a "win at all costs" mode (with all the negatives you can think of that go with that but t least they weren't blatantly cheating like the first guy I mentioned).

[@henryrodenberger4389]

The AoS pricks seem like noob hunters. My experience with Slannesh players is they have to wait for their opponent to overextend and hammer them. Id like to see if that Slaves player survive anyone who has a more complete grasp on the rules. @CaptainWeekend read ur battletome and look for synergies that seem fun. Once I had learned how units worked together, you can really capitalize on it and keep games much closer even with non-meta armies. Oh and if someone shows up with the stormcast dragon riders, just dont play!

[@fl1bble]

I have grown to hate stratagems, they are little more than "gotcha"s. They're awful and do not work as intended, they also are not created equal, currently the world eater stratagems suck compared to something like one of the current ork stratagems that lets them fight on death. If stratagems were just 'universal' like the core stratagems and very minor, then it wouldn't be much of a problem. But some of them are just obsurdly broken.

[@roguedm6523]

To the AoS player. You need to make a friend who plays the game and play them to build your confidence with it. More than half of the actions your opponents are taking aren't considered toxic behavior. It's part of the game to use your abilities. I don't know if path to glory has different expectations on player conduct but it sounded like you were up against your average awkward nerds, not toxic players.

[@Eschatonin6666]

North, what do you think of stratagems that can only be used on units that have a piece of wargear associated with being able to use said stratagem on them? Ie: Counterfire Defense System in 9th Tau

[@DzikiWaclaw]

I hate powergamers and stratagems. I got into this hobby to relax and have a nice epic fluffy battles with plastic soldiers. I don't care about researching what the hell can every army that I play against do because with stratagems it's hard for me to even keep track of what my own army can do. I had countless situations like the guy that was denied that flamer shot into exalted sorcerer. That said I think that everyone should be able to play how they want to and if you want to pull a sneaky stratagem you absolutely can. There are no rules that say that you must disclose everything to your opponent. What bugs me more is the type of player that uses every possible loophole in rules and gamey "tactics" to his advantage. Like my friend who plays necrons and stretches his massive squads of necron warriors to hold objective and be in cover at the same time and just takes saves on the guys in cover. Or when he puts back his ressurected warriors on the table in a way that they are closer to where he wants to move next. I also think that stratagems should either be taken out of the game completely or just make like 5 universal ones for every army.

[@Backstabmacro]

Counter point to stratagems: you have to pick a maximum of six during list building. This includes the core rule book strats. Your opponent knows exactly what you’re aiming for in the game and can play around it.

[@learntooilpaint]

But that would still rely on you knowing all of them for that army unless you disclose them at the start.

[@mattcarper9853]

The players in the second story sound like 1st gen Warmachine players. I never met worse people.

[@x4natos]

Todays stories read like they could've been avoided by proper balancing and rules.

[@northernexile]

Don’t say that! I’d be out if a job 😂

[@T0mm3n]

@@northernexile Relax, we both know its never gonna happen lol

[@DesiusDoesStuff]

So in the first story the guy made a stupid tactical decision, but tries to take the moral high ground after not asking for a take-back. He then cries that his opponent used a game mechanic against him. Surely a lowly sister of battle using a flamer against a mighty sorcerer is breaking the thousand sons players immersion? I don't see the problem here. Should you not charge an opponents unit because it "breaks the narrative of the game", or not shoot them? I don't get it, sorry.

[@AllThingsCubey]

Yeah when they referred to asking to take back a charge after the overwatch wrecked them (because it's frickin AP-2 flamers) as "meta gaming" or "taking a competitive edge" I lost it. No. Begging for an opponent to let you undo your own stupid gameplay after you got punished for it is not being "meta." It's asking to cheat, and it's pathetic. Some sympathetic opponents may offer such a takeback but you should have more dignity than to even ponder asking them for it. I repeat, you're asking them if you can cheat after making a mistake.

[@brainairtc17]

I don't like most stratagems, but Re-roll and Overwatch are stratagems. We need to reduce how many we can bring to a game not counting Re-roll and Overwatch.

[@moodyminis9896]

I totally get your stance on interrupting strategems especially ones that completely negate stuff. How ever other ones i definitely enjoy (I play tau so I use alot of them to boost dmg and movement shenanigans). So my "vote" goes fuck interrupting and completely negating strategems other ones are a ok in my book.

[@t-rex_tion9612]

Within 10mins, its no wonder you don't like yugioh. You can have just as long of a combo on their turn as your own, if not longer. Add negates, and floodgates in for REAL oppression 😂

[@AllThingsCubey]

Ask enemy gotchas or learn them. Stratagems are a game mechanic. Just because you don't like them doesn't make others using them rude/ unsporting. Hiding what you can do from an opponent is ungentlemanly, absolutely. However, if they told you their gotchas before the game or turn, etc, then it's not a problem. In the first story, Sisters player made a stupid turn 1 charge and then had the gall to even consider asking to take it back. They then seemingly didn't know about a pretty common Thousand Sons strat, despite saying they had been playing against each other multiple times before that. Frankly both are at fault. He should have known the Sorcerer could do that, but the opponent should have reminded him if it was clear he had forgotten about it.

[@captainweekend5276]

To be fair on reflection I would totally agree with you if it were a matched or competitive game, but it was a narrative game and giving each other mulligans like that is pretty common within our group if something goes atrociously bad. Also, I would challenge that it was a "stupid move" to charge. For context this was an easy charge on an overextended unit of rubrics that is going to fire on the CS next turn anyway. This is a unit of 10 armed with halberds and the spear of the faithful. On average, the overwatch from the flamers will kill 4.667 models. This means that given this average 5 should make the charge and then given that they're OML hit on 2s and deal about 6.4 damage back to the rubrics. Given that the sisters will receive the damage the next turn anyway, it's worth charging. Calling it a "stupid move" when the dice swung so hard to over double the average damage simply isn't fair since it's not like that niche scenario is worth accounting for in the moment. It's one of those awkward scenarios where was it in hindsight a bad move? Yes. But was it also the best move I could have made at the time? Also yes. But also it is also on me for not giving enough context, I didn't want to drag the whole thing down trying to recall every detail of the match so some things slipped.

[@IdioticSynergy]

Hey Northern mate, you've spelt inappropriate wrong. just letting you know now before the algorithm gets to this video lol

[@whisped8145]

Don't worry, I'm sure GW will get rid of Stratagems in the future. And replace it with magic the gathering like action cards with out of game resource pools and deckbuilding mechanics, like D&D4. It'll be... great.

[@Dohyden2]

Yeah northern, you're talking big talk, but I know you're more polite in real life. It's very hard to tell someone to F-off after you just spent 2 to 4 hours of your life with them. Sharing a hobbie you love even if the experience was bad.

[@britainbetterthanyou]

The AoS guy should stop playing trash like AoS (or 40K for that matter). Those games are DESIGNED for the people who ruined his experience. The rules and supplements encourage this sort of behaviour. If you leave the game thinking "wow, I lost/won but it had nothing to do with real-life tactics" then the game isn't a wargame. GW have turned AoS and 40K into customisable card games / TCGs with models instead of cards. It's designed to be like this.

[@owenharrison7428]

Wow what a downer of a segment. Name calling people you have never met based on one persons one sided story oof.

[@manolisanastasiou6393]

ied laugh if u get kicked out of or cancelled these days from the 40k community for saying @43 14 hahaha

[@danielcolson5654]

If you win 80% of your games, and you generally seek to play narrative games with people, what are you really complaining about stratagems for? Is it because that one game out of five you always lose is because of a stratagem you didn’t know about? Is it because you prefer the way the game was before they were introduced at all? Your stance that it makes you feel like you wasted your game and the last two hours of play during that game seems really flimsy when you also claimed to win four out of five games

[@northernexile]

I was responding to the OP thinking that you may NEED to use stratagems to win games, when you really don't. I just find they slow down the game to a crawl, are made up of 'gotchas' that are not fun to play against and generally suck the fun out of the game. Winning has nothing to do with it - whether stratagems at to the fun of the game is what's important, and they don't for me. I've literally seen 30 minute salvos of Player A doing a strat then B then A then B back and forth denying each other stuff...that's not epic table top battles that's fucking Yugioh or something.

[@Dorneman]

Entirely too many strategems.

[@LalienX]

lol bringing that tournament shit into narrative game is terrible

[@AllThingsCubey]

Using a stratagem is not "tournament shit." It's part of the game.

[@T0mm3n]

@@AllThingsCubey Net and WAAClisting are both "part of the game" but they are still tournament shit.

[@AllThingsCubey]

@@T0mm3n Irrelevant. Using strats is a part of the game whether it's a crusade, tempest of war, open or matched play game. If you take offense to an opponent using stratagems then find another game or agree before the game that you'll both use limited or no strats. You can't just act like another player is scummy for... playing the game normally, because you don't like the game.

[@T0mm3n]

@@AllThingsCubey >You can't just act like another player is scummy for... playing the game normally Actually I think you'll find I can. Save your trapcards and WAAC bullshit for tournament games

[@AllThingsCubey]

@@T0mm3n Sounds like you shouldn't play 40K as you clearly just hate the game as it stands in the current edition. It's only a trap card if you don't learn what opponents can do.