Thank you very much for this valuable content. We have been practicing Holacracy with 90 people for three years now. 6 months ago we started to experiment with S3 patterns and thus complement our Holacracy practice. So I'm familiar with both Holacracy and S3. Many times in your discourse I totally found myself. I only have formal training in Holacracy (coach-training) and S3 (fundamental practitioner course). But I have read about many other systems (collegial management, La Coca, etc.). We have seen a lot of what James says in the last 3 years and would speak in favor of a pattern-based approach. Much of what Patrick said also corresponds to our experience with the framework approach. I come to the conclusion that we should not be comparing approaches. Because the approaches have proven their worth in various contexts. I would find it much more helpful for my professional practice if we had an instrument at hand BEFORE THE TRANSFORMATION to be able to anticipate which approach in the first let’s say six months would be most promising for this specific context, for this specific culture with its specific past. Wouldn’t that be disruptively cool? 😊 I am looking forward to your next exchange! Michael