Is the West in Decline? C. Miller-Idriss, Y. Varoufakis, and K. Kisin. The 2024 Holberg Debate.

[@LeonJaeggi-wx4uc]

If you have ever asked why we are losing everything that was once our normal. You only have to notice how all the criminals from academia have everything wrong and the one man who lived his whole life in our real world has everything right. Problem is; the academics are the ones teaching.

[@leakybean501]

🎯🎯

[@justanothernick3984]

What makes the academics criminal? Is it all the resources they have? Or the power in state politics? No, it's the knowledge. To make it better for everyone. Somehow, this isn't a noble goal for isolationists. They haven't been corrupted by wealth or power but the ones with said wealth and power are sour that they aren't seen as the "good guys" as well. Here is a secret; you can't have both. Especially if the gaps are widening.

[@GeeAmo907]

Thought the same. Our academics couldn't be more wrong about every issue brought up!!

[@justanothernick3984]

@@GeeAmo907 Help me out a bit. Tell me what they are so wrong about?

[@samupon_a_star8258]

Go Konstantin!🙌🏽👏🏽 Thank you for being the voice of reason & truth amongst ignoramus's who are clueless to reality.

[@shyman3000]

🤣There is no reason or truth in anything he said you dolt. He looks like a clown sharing space with Yanis here. His whole point of view is rooted in lightweight youtuber discourse around cancel culture, while Yanis is talking about economic and political realities. Grow a brain.

[@Llooktook]

As someone on the moderate left, it infuriates me that they still don't see the damage, Identity or woke politics has done. Their inability to acknowledged let alone deal with the blatant progressive illiberalism and dogmatism has only emboldened those with extreme positions. Whilst directly undermining the very real need to reduce inequality and deal with climate change.

[@sakariaskoivisto1471]

Agree. Varoufakis makes a point about it in his recent book on technofeudalism though.

[@carjaune6793]

Clinton said Bernie wasn't as far left as she was because "punishing banks doesn't cure racism". It was all a shiny object strategy from the beginning...

[@sakariaskoivisto1471]

This is proof of the fact that the identity and woke nonsense has replaced class struggle, sending voters in the arms of the right.​@@carjaune6793

[@tzakman8697]

Because woke politics don't exist it is a fantasy term the right has invented to be right with no apologies.

[@anopinionatedlaymanappears9052]

Yes the liberal left are obsessed with identity politics but not any left with class based politics

[@maynardgent6708]

I feel sorry for Cynthia Miller-Idriss, she is clearly out of her depth and making up the numbers.

[@lovelettertothewest]

THE PRAGMATIC THINKER Unlike the other participants, Konstantin is able to take our human weaknesses into account in his analyses. His unadulterated view of reality, and his acceptance of our human condition (coupled with a sharp intellect) makes his arguments so powerful.

[@leebrown6702]

Konstantin is brilliant and hits the nail on the head every time. How he keeps his head with the nonsense pedaling from the others is impressive.

[@pmatthewroy]

Hardly.

[@sweetcell8767]

His views on Ukraine are sound at best. When he starts waffling on about American history, American foreign policy, Trump and the American polity he is one of the most ignorant motherf$&kers one would ever hope encounter. He’s just another two bob podcaster with far too much to say for himself.

[@Victoria-Enzula]

Constantin is wrong

[@samupon_a_star8258]

​@@Victoria-EnzulaNo you're wrong

[@hunterseufert8066]

I don't understand how Yanis can be so enamored with the Indian society with their iconic caste system or the Arab society which by and large still hasn't figured out women's rights.

[@seag1492]

There are some blindspots there for sure.

[@sakariaskoivisto1471]

I dont read him as enamoured of these cultures though.

[@anopinionatedlaymanappears9052]

Except the West didn't "figure it out" they were rights fought for by the oppressed not given buy the ruling class. The conditions in those societies are obviously different and not a monolith like your suggestion of "Arab society". The West has yet to demonstrate it's "superiority" in any way other than militarism. Is it a wonder they don't adopt our culture with all the damage the West has done?

[@intlprofs1]

Yuo

[@bealzy]

He's a flog, easy.

[@grnzrn]

1:08:00 "The Indians had an industrial revolution before Britain..." Mkay.

[@aftdel]

Tells you all you need to know about his agenda and dishonesty.

[@BuntFencer]

I think he misspoke. He must have been referring to India's industrial output prior to the industrial revolution in Europe. India was producing about 25% of the world's industrial output up until 1750 making it the most important manufacturing center in international trade. Then Britain took over India and brought it down to 2% in by 1900. India was systematically deindustrialized under the British. Source: www.tcd.ie/Economics/staff/orourkek/Istanbul/JGWGEHNIndianDeind.pdf

[@grnzrn]

@@aftdel I agree. Israel "pulverized" all the hospitals in Gaza. Genocide in Gaza. Islam saved Europe from the dark age. All those claims are so blatently wrong. But he's not pandering to people that have access to google and a funtioning brain. The greeks invented a word for people like that: Demagogue.

[@Dehmigaahd]

First speaker: So much activism cloaked in anguish over other activists, both of which are reactionary and unanalytical.

[@nikko.lottsahcocc6917]

Typical woman huh lol

[@emilianosintarias7337]

while i oppose her entire view, Kisin is a far bigger activist. in many ways she represents the status quo

[@TheWhitehiker]

@@emilianosintarias7337 No, Kisin wins against the two ideologues.

[@rachelbrogniet2292]

She is elitist and delusional

[@emilianosintarias7337]

@@TheWhitehiker what does winning or losing have to do with whether he is an activist?

[@runeespe]

I love how the confident academic's conclusion is to recognize the higher educated people are the problem with misinformation and that they need to reduce their confidence. A conclusion she unapologetically delivers after 2 hours of spewing unsubstantiated "facts" with nothing to back it up, while accusing everyone else of being a conspiracy theorist. It simply doesn't get better.

[@kiwigrunt330]

Yup. Right wing conspiracy theorists 'making up' what the left have been writing books about for decades.

[@miyojewoltsnasonth2159]

Starts at 2:33 *Edit:* Debate itself begins at 10:20/10:54 following introductory remarks and introductions.

[@AB-zv6dz]

I thought Varoufakis faded into total obscurity but here he is, his morale compass is still just as broken in 2024 as it has been his entire life. He cannot tell the difference between a masked terrorist with an AK47 aiming at your head and Elon Musk trying to build reusable rockets to advance humanity. According to Varoufakis, he will get back to you on which is "better"

[@kjerstiwesteng4460]

Do explain further how these rockets will advance humanity?

[@emilianosintarias7337]

total distortion of his views. he is very much pro-big project, he just thinks the same system that makes only oligarchies able to innovate, is the one that produces so many new masked armed men and vice versa

[@cg000gc]

Kisin is honest and realistic. What that Cynthia is doing there, how much stupidity she can propagate?

[@Prometheus100110]

Im american and black. Kisin is right about the discrimination agaisnt asians, whites and any group that is is as in power. The lady on the panel is an activist. Europeans love this activist type and anyone that says europeans are bad is like honey to their ears.

[@denneysteve3994]

Blimey, sweeping claims supporting sweeping claims, none of which are supported by evidence or knowledge… No wonder you’re a Triggerlobotomy fan.

[@joiedevie3901]

Really, have you done some survey to know what Europeans like to hear? Share the statistics, please. Otherwise, try to make a solid argument. "Discrimination against any group that is in power"--really? Does that crazy statement even make sense to YOU?

[@Prometheus100110]

@joiedevie3901 joie de vie, Tu es Francis/e? I have been in enough european countries and have enough european friends to guess what the majority of Europeans like to hear. I've lived in several Europeans countries for a combined 20+ years. The U.K. may no longer be part of the EU but it's almost a failed state. You know what's happening to Germany. France might follow soon. It's a lack of courage, a sort of cowardice masquerading as kindness, harmlessness or some kinda of virtue. Your forefathers built a house and never taught you how to protect it.

[@joiedevie3901]

@@Prometheus100110 Clearly you have not lived in Europe long enough to know how to spell "Français/e" or that using "tu" with someone other than a close friend or family is not done. You offer nothing but anecdotal opinions that are no more reliable than your knowledge of French orthography or grammar.

[@navsegda78]

There seems to be a clear pattern among those who believe the climate is changing, view capitalism as inherently flawed, dismiss anti-Israel or antisemitic sentiments as acceptable, and fully embrace globalization. A bold man with a thick Greek accent perfectly embodies these ideas.

[@seandrew7837]

There a collective name for that group of people: They’re called ‘The Left’ You’re welcome.

[@halvorslemmen1]

Kisin - like many journalists, politicians and academics in the West - does not take into account the descriptive reality for an increasingly larger proportion of people in the world, namely the fact that the US carries out covert operations with often catastrophic consequences. During the Cold War alone, the US carried out 70 regime changes. The majority of them were about overthrowing left-wing, democratic, forces and installing authoritarian regimes. Because it fits better with neoliberal/capitalist ideology, as Varoufakis explained. I completely agree with Varoufakis. This is also the reason, I believe, that large parts of the world's population are quite tired of the US-led rules-based order.

[@sakariaskoivisto1471]

But..but.. Kisin says the West is better and that if they dont do it someone else will, and the West has superior values.

[@lomotil3370]

@@sakariaskoivisto1471 Kisin is correct.

[@sakariaskoivisto1471]

@@lomotil3370 About what? His point on meritocracy fails, Yanis proved him wrong with a simple example from the classroom. Are you referring to his point on race and immigrants? This is a stupid point as well, and anyone educated in political history knows that too.

[@MikeMike-cc4jk]

From the Ukraine, and Israel, it has become clear what agenda, and what sponsors Konstantine is trying to serve. Neocon-neocon-neocon. After Ukraine he repeated word for word the wildest Ukrainian propaganda (how Russians have no toilets) and neocon hawkish propaganda, after Israel he became shapiriest than Ben Shapiro, and it became clear where this “trigonometry” channel got its legs, or from which structures Konstantin decided to tie up his career and beg for funding.

[@Lordofthewhyz]

@@sakariaskoivisto1471you aren’t listening. Meritocracy should be the end goal and we should strive for it. If we can create hiring systems that are blind to sex, race etc as much as possible, then we will employ the best person because the colour of your skin does not actually correlate with anything worthwhile. I could be in favour of some prioritisation of marginalised groups in cases where candidates score the same otherwise. Our desperate desire to end social inequality so that we can feel better about our culture means we put in overly simplistic values and ideas that result in a different form of discrimination. Stop pissing all over your imperfect culture a bit and you might feel more settled

[@ShrekThePimp]

Wow. The woman arguing for woke DEI is crazy. Do we want the best qualified person regardless of color or gender.....

[@eriklarsson3188]

Regardless of race or s3x. Gnder? Social construct. 72+ and counting.

[@satanshantverkare]

The amount of propaganda pouring out of cynthia at the beginning was simply diguisting. Yanis needs to learn how to shut the hell up and listen. Besides from that i really enjoyed this debate.

[@RGurhan-dz9op]

I salute Yanis Varoufakis. He has a talent to point out painful subject that most intellectuals avoid. Amazing human 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@lamrof]

ሰውየው በዙሪያው ከአለው ነባር የምሁራን ጩኸው ባሻገር እውነታን የማግኘት ችሎታ አለው።

[@davidhowse884]

Is there a discussion to be had comparing multinational and multipolar? I would like to consider the UN getting rid of the Security Council, and instead creating a Legal Council, which looks at conflicts and potential conflicts from the perspective of international law, and presents this to the General Assembly.

[@lamrof]

የርስዎ አስተያየት አሁን የአለውን ዓለም አቀፍ የወንጀል ፍርድ ቤት አቅም አዳብሮ ብያኔው ሁሉ በተባበሩት ዓለም መንግስታት ሥር ተፈጻሚነት እንዲኖረው ማድረግ ይመስላል። አለመታደል ሆኖ ይህ ፍርድ ቤት ታሪኩ ጉድፍ ያለበት ነው። እርስዎ እንዳሉት አሁን ያለው የደህነነት ምክር ቤት በአለበት ሁኔታ መቀጠል አይችልም።

[@davidhowse884]

@@lamrof Something like that. If anything is "flawed", that should be addressed. Yes I agree that the Security Council should be representative of the world, however it is inherently flawed in a hegemonic rather than legal approach to international conflict. If the Security Council had India, representatives of Africa South America as permanent members Russia still would have invaded Ukraine in breach of the UN Charter, India still would have looked at the matter of as one of economic opportunism and bought cheap oil, so the the reason d'être of the UN to prevent the scourge of war, would not have been enforced. My view, if the world is ever to avoid major wars and resulting catastrophes such as famines, it should move the paradigm from power relations to legal interpretations, with the power being the collective will of the world's sovereign countries. I know this will not happen any time soon, but eventually, some century, it must happen if the world wants to avoid war. All nations should be regarded equally under international law. "What is right" replacing "might is right", in my opinion. Einstein, early 1900s, I think suggested something along similar lines, if humanity is to achieve a peaceful world.

[@adellekonrad7375]

I may be wrong, but Constantine tends to see the world from the perspective of isolationism. The world is interconnected and what affects Britain's, your beloved Land affects the rest of the world to an extend. We need to grow past this hyper-individualistic mindset because it's a self-destructive prison. The Prisoner's dilemma needs to reside in the heads of mankind. I may seem bias, but how couldn't I like Yanis. He is the only celebrity I truly adore! He is a rare gem.

[@shyman3000]

Konstantin should not even be in the same room with Yanis. Yanis is a philosopher. Kisin is a dime a dozen comedian with very basic ethnocentric opinions. I'm actually shocked and disappointed that Yanis is on stage with such a lightweight.

[@azizpatel]

I must give Konstantin due that although he's not a professor, the points he makes, not only in this debate, but at so many other forums, and also on his Triggernometry podcast, puts the "professors" to shame. He makes such profound and appropriate critiques of these professors. As for Yanis, he as a through and through Lefty. He lists genuine facts, however the conclusions that he tries to draw from them I just totally ludicrous. Ultimately, he adds no value to the debates he participates in. As for Cynthia, she also came across as very much Left leaning. I was not impressed by her.

[@ruthokelley5833]

Great debate…I appreciate the ideas brought up that need to be contemplated. Thanks…

[@lamrof]

እንዲህ ያሉ ገንቢ ዝግጅቶን ማግኘት ይቻላል በማህበራዊ መገናኛዎች ነገር ግን በጥንቃቄ መምረጥ ያስፈልጋል።

[@lomotil3370]

Kisin demolished the academics. How embarrassing for them.

[@sakariaskoivisto1471]

He did? Can you elaborate?

[@ansa336]

A pig just flow over my window!

[@larryparis925]

You are being sarcastic. I get it.

[@andreselectrico]

I do not see how he demolished them.

[@emilianosintarias7337]

not really. he is a better and more practiced speaker and salesman, and he takes advantage of their humility and nuance. probably none of Yanis platform promotes affirmative action or DEI,. but he simply objects to simplified dogmatic criticism and he does not want to pander like kisin does. of course, that is his fault, but that is why talk show hosts will beat profs at these kind of contests. that said, i don't think anyone was really good here, though the feminist lady was t worst.

[@DimaD_61]

Thanks Konstantin for trying to drag academics from the virtual reality they are leaving with. Just as a remark. China economic expansion to Africa and South America is not a conquer by a war, but result is similar.

[@karagi101]

She’s such a liar. I know current students in University who have no choice and must take Woke courses unrelated to their fields. Courses such as Black and Aboriginal studies. Courses that talk about the colonialism of the West, trans issues, the patriarchy, intersectionality, etc… There’s full scale indoctrination happening but to her, it obviously doesn’t count as indoctrination since it aligns with her mindset.

[@AllieRogers-mq1kf]

I really enjoyed this. Well done. More debates will improve society.

[@ParametricPromethean]

A multipolar world would only be worth having if the other non western players offered something worth bringing to the table, otherwise it is just Great Power conflict again. I don't see Russia, China, Saudi or any of the others having an interest in fixing climate change, and their driving ideologies bring values that are even worse than ours. What we need is an America that reconnects with the enlightenment values of its Western heritage, instead of this bizarre direction it has taken under both Trumpism and Wokeism. Contrary to what Konstantin said, we are in decline exactly because we focused too much on baking the pie rather than how to distribute it fairly. It is the existence of billionaires that created our environmental, housing affordability and demographic crises. Tax them out of existence, and recirculate that money back into the economy doing the things which correct the problems.

[@bb4726-h5e]

Varoufakis is what happens when a man relinquishes reason and logic and critical thinking skills as core, guiding principles.

[@emilianosintarias7337]

how so

[@pmatthewroy]

@@emilianosintarias7337 Kisin did not deserve to be on the stage with Varoufakis.

[@intlprofs1]

One of many such debates where the title does not get enough time, specifically.

[@arraiacc]

Starts at: 2:38

[@benjm1185]

at 41:00 mins Yanis tells us about governmental welfare for banks coinciding with austerity imposed on innocent people post-GFC, culminating in ferocious eye contact with Camera One at (imo) the best rhetorical point of the debate. Talent!

[@johnsimpson8893]

Varoufakis keeps talking about genocide. There has been genocide and taking of other people's land for thousands of years. He seems to be unaware of the scientific revolution and the enlightenment, from which it came to be realised that genocide was bad.

[@shyman3000]

This is pure dribble. The west did not invent morality and ethics. This one of those fairytales you learned in kindergarten and still believe in.

[@markarmage3776]

I'm sorry, you simpletons do realize that this modern time is not the same time as thousands of years ago, correct?

[@shyman3000]

@@markarmage3776 Spoken like a true illiterate. 🤣

[@johnsimpson8893]

@@markarmage3776 Genocides continue to this day Rwanda, China, Burma... Non European empires came and went throughout history, until the age of European expansion began about 500 years ago. Non European empires existed for centuries along side these European empires, eg Mughal, Ottoman. The Ottoman empire only ended in 1918. This is only because they sided with the Germans during the 1st World War. Europeans did nothing that non-Europeans did. It's just we did it better. But the the benefits derived from this, we would never have come to think of imperialism as bad.

[@johnsimpson8893]

@@markarmage3776 You have an extremely poor knowledge of history.

[@Shalien333]

That's LIFE. Has it Ever Been Fair and Equitable for All?? NO!! And It may Never BE!!??

[@thomasseptimius]

Miller-Idriss was useless and brought nothing. This should just have been Kisin and Yanis battling it out. Kisin is obviously correct but at least Yanis was about to create a somehow personal take on things.

[@sakariaskoivisto1471]

Kisin? A youtuber and writer. In my opinion he brought even less than Cynthia. He doesnt have enough knowledge to qualify to debate here. You could see the frustrations in Varoufakis having to endure that.

[@carjaune6793]

Kisin a loser KZbinr riding tHeLeFtHAsgONeToOFaR grift for all it's worth, until it comes on his face

[@moneypennysloverboy]

Kisin is a child. Very dangerous child with big platform poisoning discourse. He should stick to interviewing.

[@thomasseptimius]

@@sakariaskoivisto1471 Disagree. The debate was about culture he has a very good take on culture even though I don't agree with him on everything. Yanis is just fundamentally wrong in everything he claims and I have yet to hear any actual coherent takes from Cynthia. She was an NPC i could hear her opinions by listening to any TDS infected on the left.

[@sakariaskoivisto1471]

​@@thomasseptimius He does not have a good take on culture, and the reason for that is that he simply lacks historical knowledge. He knows where we are, but not how we came here. His ideas are: "west is better than the rest because of technological advantage and therefore we deserve hegemony". Basically, because the situation being as it is justifies it. He infers from what is to what should be. My position, and many others, is that we should stop ruining the economie of other countries and instead allow them the human right of prosperity. But whenever there is a democratic attempt somewhere, The US makes sure to prevent it. Some of his points are valid, free speech, etc. Anyone could state those. You really must be an expert to say that Yanis is fundamentally wrong. To make a bold statement like that, atleast provide some substance to your claim.

[@traviseubanks7556]

Still havent heard a single argument about state boards of elections changing voting rules without going through their legislatures first.

[@mzaran2995]

Varoufakis is the classic example of white liberal guilt. Defined by self-blame and self-hatred, he strikes me as the sort of man who could get punched in the face over and over and apologise for it. If men like this lead Greece, I weep for her future. And of what little future she has left.

[@akserver1]

You hit the nail on the head, my firend.

[@sakariaskoivisto1471]

@@mzaran2995 nowhere was there an expression of guilt for being white. He is stating the hypocrisy of the West. If people like him led countries, amoral and greedy bankers who poison society would go to jail. He is a friend of the working glass.

[@ghostagee5232]

Guilt and blame can be objective. Takes a real man to accept that.

[@markarmage3776]

Buddy, you are modern example of ignorant individual, go back to school and leave us sane people be, you're outmatched. 85% of global population versus the pigs and the criminals. You're on the side of the pigs, btw

[@markarmage3776]

You need a better education, buddy.

[@zhigengfan8114]

Christianity and faith are vital elements of west. Ignoring that is not a good start of discussion

[@larryparis925]

Secularism and Humanism are important. The monotheistic belief systems are based on intolerance, and have nothing but mythology to offer.

[@-tom-8720]

​@larryparis925 your own dismissal of the monotheistic beliefs shows the intolerance of humanism and secularism. It's just plain conceited to dismiss Christianity

[@larryparis925]

@@-tom-8720 Uh, no. The mythology and superficial content of Christian beliefs are irrelevant to today’s world, where the importance lies in the rights of humans - not the dictatorial demands of a fake god. We need to further human rights, women’s rights, and Indigenous rights, and create better social and ecological conditions for future generations.

[@oldspammer]

I saw a video last night on KZbin while logged onto my laptop. It was about identical twins and a sniffer dog for search and rescue being able to easily tell the identicals apart by their distinct scents. The German shepherd could meet with a large room full of people who were not to be tract and for searched or not and the dog could remember all their distinct scents. And I still was thinking that identicals would have the same smells, but apparently, we are each different in measurable, distinguishable ways.

[@myla6135]

Good for you. Of course we are individual and different. Why would you think genetics determines how you smell Smell likely depends more on what you eat! And other environmental factors. Genetically humankind is 99.5% the same. That's why we are considered to be part of the same species. Environment plays a huge part in each individuals development which starts with the genes you inherit but then environment (which includes what you eat) goes on to impact those genes (mutations) or to affect you via other ways: eg culture, schooling, religion, playing sport, overeating, taking drugs etc etc. It's far more complicated than that simple Darwin stuff you or I may have picked up at school. Although Darwin was a genius he is just not taught well except to those specialists like geneticists, certain biologists and evolutionists. I'm no expert but I have read one or two serious books on the subject and managed to retain some of the knowledge I picked up.

[@oldspammer]

​@@myla6135 Do you know much math regarding joint probability theory? Well, there have been fraternal and identical twin and triplet studies separated at birth and not knowing that the others existed and being raised by strangers. Some of these identical twins/triplets study participants had extremely unusual but lots of behaviors, clothing style preferences, gestures, accessories, etc, in common. The likelihood of this all being a coincidence is extremely unlikely. There are various commentators about these results that basically say that unless you are talking about depriving them of vitamins, nutrients, and so on for the nurture aspect of things that would damage their brain health and possibly their sanity, that their genes seem to be governing how their brains work to govern their strange but numerous behaviors. There are two age old sayings that "the apple does not fall far from the tree," and "the sins of the father shall be visited upon his sons and daughters." This implies that the biological parents determine their offspring's general approach to problem solving and therefore most behaviors. For all we know, some behaviors may skip a generation because many kids want to rebel against how their parents behaved with them, but when the pendulum swings the opposite direction and the children of the children might again act in ways similar to their grandparents, but latest speculation is just me taking wild positing of theories. What I seem to see is that majority populations are being attacked for being baselessly bigoted against an influx of new people from strange cultures, and ethnic backgrounds where the problem solving tool kits may be extremely different so that a one size fits all approach might not work very well so that one's local talent pool has to work with something that they can easily use in their everyday life, and not something that shall not match up with ways that they do things back from whence they came. An old lady named Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt said that school children were being taken on school outings where they would visit the rich side of town and the poor trailer park side of town. The children would be challenged by the teacher by asking them what kind of food do you think that each sort of town's person would be having for breakfast? The thing was that the teacher never explained to the children that the rich side of town had people who had multiple doctorate degrees and invented innovative products and services, formed corporations that employed many tens of thousands of people from the other parts of town. The teachers were trying to imply that the two sets of people were exactly equal in every respect, but that there were unfair, unequal outcomes between the two. This, Iserbyt explained, was a way to instill the idea that were it not for some bigotry, or luck, or whatever, that each person should have equal outcomes. It was a way to instill in the children that there should be some kind of class warfare to "make things have equal outcomes." Again, the competency of the rich people was HUGE, and that of the poor people was tiny, yet this was never explained to the children who would start to think that Marxism was the only cool way to make things right. In a video during the Bork hearings, Thomas Sowell talks with Sen. Joseph R. Biden to explain to him that less than one percent of black people are able to complete an education at a very elite university such as Harvard, and that they would be better off attempting their education at a less demanding educational institution. The people who cruise right through an education at Harvard with no difficulties at all are NOT ethnic Europeans, but Northern Asians, and genius level Ashkenazi Jews from geographic areas where they had traveled within the last few centuries who have innate huge intelligence. Many chess grandmasters have huge IQ and have memorized all the popular opening moves and counteracting defenses. Reference bobby Fischer chess games An AI told me that there are various places where the populations there have extremely small vocabularies of only about two thousand words. The implications of the implications of having such a small vocabulary are HUGE and numerous that would make it impossible for them to succeed in a highly technologically advanced civilization. The AI said that the average IQ of some places is in the mid 40s, and I could not believe it so I had to fact check what the AI had told me. Low and behold, the AI was not lying to me. The ways and extent to how certain people are capable of thinking is very diverse so that a one size fits all solution for anything is just not going to work and that is why globalist international Utopian communism was just NOT going to work, and likely in very advanced cultures would tend to cause all the smart people to be victimized by making everyone else look really bad. For example, the video that I just watched was incomprehensible to me because I don't like memorizing lots of biochemical facts, molecules, purposes, and whatnot, so did not know how to interpret the video on KZbin entitled, " Top Brain Surgeon Instantly Banned After Revealing This!" uploaded by Video Advice

[@oldspammer]

@@myla6135 my reply to you was auto magically removed. Apparently, automated comment moderation is an application of AI where wokeness, political correctness, and hiding of unpopular to the left points of view are strongly enforced instantly. Years ago I researched the history of political correctness and found that Michael Hoshkinson had posted some KZbin videos about the Frankfurt School institute for social research or whatever it was. It imposes a toxic, baselessly bigoted ideology that advances that radicalism should be promoted that attacks Christianity traditions thousands of years old with ideas that curtail the nuclear family and the having of any offspring by promoting fringe sexual desires and practices. One form of Hegelian dialect involves the intersectionality or demographic differentiation to form power dynamic groups where one group are baselessly demonized as the oppressor group who victimize another group called the oppressed. Post WW2. a biased telephone survey was concocted out of a California University that presumed that different groups of religion practitioners were baselessly bigoted against some promoted perpetual religion victim group. The Frankfurt School was promoting Marxism, and so had to demonstrate somehow that their presumptions were accurate. The follow-up to the biased study was a large report in the form of a book. That book was entitled Authoritarian Personality and was funded by a small group out of NYC who had extremely deep financial pockets. There was a video out that talked about the influence of people on world history, and that section of the longer documentary after a few years was removed from KZbin for violating ever-changing community guidelines to eliminate Christian or conservative opinions. I seem to favor the theory that like the ancient Egyptian pharaohs saying that their leaders became gods after a while, the same thing exactly started to happen in Rome with the emperors there. With all these leaders becoming gods, this meant that these religions were basically pagan poly theistic in nature so various monotheistic religions attacked both the ideas and the citizenry of places who had multiple gods, so much so that innocent people minding their own business farming and having families of their own were mercilessly attacked and killed in so-called uprisings against the Roman and Greek people. In Cyprus alone 240 thousand innocent men, women, children, infants were eliminated by a small handful of people using the most torturous methods imaginable. For example, saws that would spin and cut a living person in half starting at their groin and working its way through their torso to their heads. This so-called uprising was called a war, but it was being fought by eliminating the poor and innocent working class people. It turns out that all sorts of vast territories surrounding Rome had this exact same kind of genocide being played out. Eventually, after decades, it seems, the key perpetrators were caught and severely punished, but quite a bit too late to save those already slaughtered by these very bigoted people who were claiming that they were at the top of the victimhood Olympics when that was a giant nonsense malarkey. You have no doubt heard of reparations for there ever been slavery? Well, reparations cannot be given to anyone if the perpetrators eliminate every single one of their victims in a brutal, bigoted way leaving no survivors whatsoever so that no reparations need ever be paid. Wikipedia has an article about the various places attacked by this handful of perpetrators. It is curious that none of my school classes taught me any of this history, yet it can be fact-checked easily.

[@oldspammer]

@@myla6135 every reply of mine here has been ai censored.

[@myla6135]

@@oldspammer I can see this reply, and obviously your original comment. You beat the ai! 😊 The YT algos/ai do/es seem to work very hard. It's set too narrowly and without a proper grasp of how language is used in practice. Now don't get me started on the philosophy of language ..... another of my interests. ☺

[@hemlock527]

Make critical thinking mandatory in primary and secondary schooling

[@aidanaldrich7795]

I can't believe Yanis denied observable and factual realities of society today

[@AlexK.Arrixen]

What a lovely clash of the mindsets!

[@dabay200]

Prof. Varoufakis is absolutely correct. The western hypocrisy is just totally disgusting

[@scarba]

As is his own hypocrisy. Whilst Greek people couldn’t get any cash from their banks to eat, he was sunning himself by his pool at his luxury holiday home on a private island next to his daughter of the richest industrialist of Greece. His ego is his main problem. Ask a Greek person. He is universally disliked as a narcissist in his homeland. Have you seen the photos of him and his wife in Paris Match?

[@juan.zabala]

This was nice to watch. Still nobody seems to build upon the other's beat arguments but they were decent to one another in spite of the pearl clutching around the Palestinians.

[@marionreynolds7080]

Greed and self obsession are the predominant goals of the west. As a baby boomer I lived through this development and predictably I find it obscene. Two words which never enter the discussion are decency and humility. On the contrary we are now all exhorted to worship at the altar of Elon Musk a cultural shift which I’m convinced would have emerged with or without Musk’s involvement in Twitter.

[@seag1492]

This must be primarily directed to the US. It hits home, but only just slightly living in Norway.

[@thomasseptimius]

This is an absurd take. The west have liberated more people from opression than it has ever opressed. More people are out of poverty because of ideas from the west. There is a direct causal relationship between the freedom and wealth enjoyed by the citizens of any country and whether they adhere to western culture.

[@LinoLagoful]

The woman at the introduction: “ All you see and saw and you are confirming with your own open eyes… is not true, is just your paranoia and conspiracy theories… so please don’t get upset” 😂😂

[@markslist1542]

Trump has openly said he's not messing with abortion rights.....that is up to congress, not the executive branch.

[@satanshantverkare]

The left does not care what trump really says or means. They think they got this conspiracy figured out.

[@thaismendes9977]

Yanis keeps interrupting and speaking non-stop over Konstabtin, it's insufferable

[@elektra1968]

Konstantin wants to build a world based on what his family has been through. There are millions of families who have been oppressed by various systems-ask the Vietnamese, for example. Individual experiences cannot be the foundation for a better world, Konstantin

[@stellarozhinsky8746]

No, but it is a good reason to start thinking, why communism does not work.

[@JOSHUA-hs4zt]

Why not? My mother had the experience to live under Nazism and Communism: What she and Kisin have in common , having lived in the West is to APPRECIATE how free we really are compared to totalitarianism. Yes, you can refer to Vietnam, and I can also refer you to Pol Pot, but that does not change the overall reality.

[@ALesserMagistr8-wq6ej]

Illuminative that the only balanced and sensible guest in this discussion is not an academic.

[@Styx-Lo]

He got tore down point after point. The only thing point he is technically correct on is Isreal, peoples brains stop working with that conflict and recent decisions from Netanyahu not helping. Yanis won the debate hands down.

[@runeespe]

​@@Styx-Lo Yanis bullied the debate, and I think you might be conflating audience cheer with "winning". Constantine was the only dismantling anything in this debate - when he was allowed to make any point.

[@Styx-Lo]

@ no, if you were listening most points were directly addressed by Yanis. I don’t listen to audience appraisal if I did, I wouldn’t be willing to admit Yanis is incorrect about Israel.

[@Styx-Lo]

@@runeespe again, Yanis responded directly to Constantine on each of his points, even eagerly cutting him off. I don’t pay attention to audience appraisal. If I did I wouldn’t be here admitting he was wrong about Israel.

[@D1804-h5c]

"The average western frmale human" What is that? No sensibility, no decency, no consideration for the human , just calculation, just a matrix.. no one reacted to that.. that is the true decline the personal is not political get out of there.

[@salmivec]

A tour de force by Yanis Varoufakis. It’s refreshing to see him systematically and credibly dismantle Konstantin's usual talking points and expose his attempts at revisionist history.

[@thomasseptimius]

he did no such thing. Being morally indignated on behalf of the loosers of the past is nothing but pandering to the emotional side of humanity. That brings us nowhere.

[@RGurhan-dz9op]

​@@thomasseptimiuss happening not in the past, but now today. The Majority of human around the world are been subjugated, multiple nations are experiencing g-dide, which is very profitable on long- term. and there is this habit that the West can't shake, as if their survival depends on g- side to survive. This is common knowledge of the rest of the world. The time of change has come , will the west stand it's ground or evolve.

[@WhizzingFish12]

This first speaker is literally the avatar of the Western elite. She gives literally NO self-criticism to how they and the progressive left (often the same thing) have led to this point.

[@runeespe]

You are conflating "dismantling" with "bullying"

[@shyman3000]

@@thomasseptimius Wait what? 😂My friend, "the losers of the past" are becoming the winners of the future. That's why this talk is happening. Read the title. And read the signs of the world you are living in.

[@astokols]

Not sure how a debate about if the West was in decline turned into a debate on the merits of affirmative action; but even in this debate, the failure to think beyond zero-sum logics to see how we can expand access to education (say actually invest in more universities, reduce tuition cost for all) and instead just argue about how admitting more white/brown/whatever will harm the other group; that paucity of public imagination itself is the root of decline.

[@samroscoe944]

Yes, it baffles me that after all this time; nobody has implemented an "affirmative action" that focuses on circumstances regardless of race or gender that makes an impact before you need to discriminate. Eg: regardless of your sex, race or religion, if you are a child that is facing a failing school and a home that cannot supply you will the necessities to learn and develop, then you get assistance in those areas directly. That means no discrimination of anyone applying for admissions or jobs, because the problems were addressed before children reached that stage of their life. This would produce a better starting point for everyone to then compete in merit. However, your point about investing in universities I would have to disagree with. Simply because it is too late to have meaningful change without discrimination.

[@akpanekpo6025]

And it's entirely deliberate: a highly successful effort by the right to divert attention from the transfer of wealth (and therefore political power) ever upwards, at the expense of the sorts of investments that you suggest (not to mention its impact on democracy itself). And it's precisely because they can't justify it that they resort to "wokeness" as a retort to every argument.

[@samroscoe944]

@@akpanekpo6025 it's got nothing to do with left or right, they are almost all getting rich. In the US the Democrats have way more wealth than the Republicans. It is simply just a view from the right that is focused on everyone "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps" without making sure everyone has a pair of boots and the left has been captured by racism and discrimination to virtue signal, which is considered more honourable than actually helping the people who need it. Both sides have their inadequacy, but to blame it on one side or another is a fools game. Look closer at both sides and you will find it is rotten almost all the way through.

[@zhigengfan8114]

Sorry, I meant Cynthia Miller-Idriss, not the Greek gentleman

[@tbd407]

Kisin is very smart, Yanis is very smart. The difference is Kisin is very sure he's right, which makes him slightly less smart

[@Ely-eo6oq]

Lol and Yanis doesn't?

[@kiwigrunt330]

Unfortunately, KK is getting increasingly arrogant, in direct proportion to the increase in his subscribers.

[@runeespe]

Yanis is not for fit civilized debate. He's a self absorbed bully who claims "everyone should be allowed on stage" but then he actively prevents then speaking. He claims to support free speech, but then sets "a moral line" and says "there are limits". It's embarrassing and cringe to witness. Noam Chomsky is known to have said that if you cannot offer free speech to those you disagree with, you offer no free speech at all. What a bully.

[@markarmage3776]

Oh, did he break your fragile ego? Homie, show some respect and go get a better education, you need it desperately.

[@tbd407]

wrong. Kisin came on like he was going on a Piers Morgan battle. show some respect. Yanis is a very impressive guy

[@Styx-Lo]

My answer to the internet problem is tying real IDs to online identities, but the world isn't ready for that. I don't think people should lose jobs over opinions either. I think people should be exiled to the dark web for extreme beliefs like Nazism, and just like community service, some non-legal form of reeducation (I know how that sounds), but in an approachable open-minded way should determine if you again have a reaching platform. With an educated population this shouldn't be an issue, but this will remain subjective until this traditional and Orwellian dogma is faded out. We can't have an honest "town hall" if everyone's wearing mask.

[@paulchampagne-hx9ob]

Now watch Chomsky debate Foucault and cry.

[@andreselectrico]

Yep.

[@andrewmack2161]

Two academics that appear to live within their 'Academia' bubble. They show once again that academic qualifications don't always make a person intelligent....

[@GeeAmo907]

Greece's finance minister. Why in the hell would we listen to anything this man has to say? Has anyone had a worse outcome at their job?

[@storkorpen]

Yanis' lack of knowledge when it comes to history is rather embarrassing.

[@aftdel]

Completely agreed. India had an Industrial Revolution. I have never ever heard an historian say or write that before.

[@Meg-is5ci]

@@aftdel India is considered to have gone through a period of deindustrialisation when the British East India Company came into the picture around 17th century. In fact prior to 1750, historians believe that India produced about 25 percent of the world’s industrial output at that time. After 1750, and by the mid-nineteenth century, most textile production had shifted to Britain.

[@aftdel]

⁠​⁠@@Meg-is5ci And other historians dispute that number, with GDP per capita estimates much lower. Regardless, neither the Indians nor the ancient Romans (another civilization that some people say came close to an Industrial Revolution) can be said to have accomplished it. It was the Brits.

[@denneysteve3994]

Kisin doesn’t really do history though, does he. It’s all whataboutery to defend the honour of the west based on the false (self-imagined) premise “why should we feel guilty?” Thus framing of guilt (or indeed pride) is childish nonsense. Kisin is interested perpetuating a mythical narrative of the past rather than dealing with evidence based reality (which doesn’t care about your feelings.)

[@peterkelly4567]

​@@Meg-is5ci When Britain industrialized, it increased its global GDP share significantly. India’s share of global GDP didn’t decline because Britain drained its economy, it declined relatively because Britain’s economy grew.

[@joseffoureauxdaelander774]

Konstantin really is the only sane person on that panel

[@joepvandijk7949]

Western civilisation, that would be a good idea, as Gandhi said. I would like to add: European Union, that would really be nice to have (or World Union, for that matter).

[@paulchampagne-hx9ob]

I had to look the cat up, it reminded me of "Fons Elders" and then this debate happened. I must say I am very impressed that Yanis Varoufakis took responsibility for what the west has done. Even though like some of us he didn't have to grow up feeling responsible for the Vietnam war or murder of Oscar Romero.

[@-tom-8720]

The younger generation doesn't have to feel responsible for anything that happened in the past

[@paulchampagne-hx9ob]

@@-tom-8720 lol

[@christophalcmeonides8537]

Miller-Idriss is here, the unavoidable, completely predictable, thus boring voice that make us all to think twice before we clic on vids like this.

[@antskilu1354]

95% professors are left ,95% media is left, there is no greex nor Egyptians,they were overrun long ago

[@tokepanduro7302]

Konstantin is intellectually outmatched to the point it is painful to watch. Who thought it would be a good idea to have him speak at the Holberg prize event?

[@tomo_xD]

I thought he did quite well against Vaeoufakis' lies

[@anubistv1154]

Konstantin sees reality in a much more honest way than the other two. They are able to spout their nonsense they’ve studied for decades very well, but he had a common sense well-rounded view that they’re too far down their rabbit holes to see. I suspect you live in a figurative pit as well.

[@manashmahanta77]

Konstantin is just a puppet.

[@joelmanning249]

Not you to the worlds benefit

[@markarmage3776]

@@anubistv1154 Buddy, I think you're confusing simpleton oversimplification with reality. Why don't you go study some actual history and leave sane people be, you're outmatched.

[@shyman3000]

Kisin shouldn't be allowed to breath the same air as Varofakis.

[@kanyindewa9372]

Constatin Kisin is like the only true thinker here. He's right on every topic

[@Steve-iu5hy]

What’s right abt him?

[@richardmackenzie1878]

​​Konstantin is stuck on race because that's his sensational schtick. Varoufakis has a very different idea of western racial history, but his main point is that the problem is the financial system.

[@sakariaskoivisto1471]

Different idea of western racial history, compared to whom?

[@andreselectrico]

I agree.

[@tomo_xD]

He also argued that imperialism is/was only done by the west, which is a bare faced lie

[@RebellionTroll]

Good lord the first speaker is nauseating and painfully out of touch with what us peasants feel and think....

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

*Kisin is a shameless grifter, and shoulnd't be on stage with someone like Yanis*

[@thamnolia]

If you have to ask the question, then, yes.

[@norbertfontaine8524]

The first speaker is a stand-up comedian or.. ?

[@celestialteapot309]

Those chairs are insane

[@Forksake82]

Kisin is very dishonest on a lot of issues but the Palestinian issue takes it to another level. Evil

[@karagi101]

You’re very uninformed and morally confused.

[@peterkelly4567]

Kisin is very honest, but Yanis is wrong. Israel has spent 80 years fending off Islamic aggression. Israel is not committing genocide; by legal definition, they are engaged in war. The IDF has the best combat-to-civilian death ratio of any army in the world. Hamas started this war and deliberately endangers Palestinian civilians to provoke international condemnation of Israel. Nobody is happy that women and children are being killed, but put the blame where it belongs: on Hamas, not Israel, which goes above and beyond to minimize civilian casualties.

[@AndreiSilvester]

​@@peterkelly4567 "The IDF has the best combat-to-civilian death ratio of any army in the world." - this is a lie that has been debunked so many times that it's embarrassing to even talk about it. Konstantin is a liar too.

[@markarmage3776]

@@peterkelly4567 Buddy, you're going to need a better lie. 85% of global population versus you pigs, real tough choice indeed.

[@JOSHUA-hs4zt]

On the contrary, Kisin sees where Yanis' argument goes and steps back to observe how history is revised so that events in history are rejudged and condemned in order to allow for condemnation of Israel . Kisin also later backs off talking about China saying honestly that he has not got the knowledge to express an opinion. That is rare.

[@lamrof]

What a disgusting human being is that Ukrainian Asian guy. His smear of Palestinians as culprits of their death because they can't use tunnels to hide made me sick to my stomach.

[@theinngu5560]

If you actually listen to him beyond your preconceived views, you would come to a very different outlook. Look at his reasons for not sitting on the fence re Israel/Gaza on Triggernometry but if you want to say that you are right, don’t bother and have a nice day.

[@angelswap]

@@theinngu5560 He's got a brilliant mind. Far superior in this talk.

[@gedaliaw]

You clearly did not listen to him. His entire point is that unlike Ukrainians that use underground shelters to hide from Russian missiles, Hamas does not let their people hide in their vast terror tunnel network. For Hamas, civilian causalities is a feature not a bug. This is what Yanis and people like you refuse to understand.

[@lamrof]

@@theinngu5560 መዕራባውያን ዓለምን እንዲረብሹ የሚያደርጋቸው የእኛ ባሕል ይበልጣል የሚለው ስር የሰደደ አመለካከት ነው። እብሪት ውድቀት ናት። ከምዕራባውያን በስተቀር የእኔ ባህል ከሌላው ሁሉ የበለጠ ነው የሚል ህዝብ ሰምቼ አላውቅም። እንዲያውም ከምዕራባውያን የምጠብቀው ትህትናን እና ቁጥብነትን ነበር። ምክንያቱም ለአለፈው 500 ዓመታት የፈጸሙት ነገር እጅግ በጣም አስከፊ ስለነበረ። በእኔ እይታ ይህ የምዕራባውያን ዕብሪት አንገቱ ተቆርጦ የሚንደፋደፍ ዶሮን ያስታውሰኛል።

[@Adomir]

Is Konstantin the ghost writer for the book "Surrounded by idiots"?

[@MeklitMekonnen-t1b]

Socialism remains the best route utopia 😢

[@christalee3643]

Konstantin speaks sense. Always. ♥️

[@anthonytroia1]

Let's play "Who can cram the most words into Konstantin's mouth", shall we?

[@silverfoxcondor46]

"Gish gallop"

[@onepartyroule]

Panda birth rates, btw.

[@lamrof]

ሃሃ ቃላት መኖ

[@GingerDrums]

How can we share facts when the left are promoting epistemological alternatives like "standpoint epistemology", and the right speaks about "alternative facts". Academics are complicit in this for not upholding the principles of reason and rejecting activism that requires philosophical radicalism.

[@zpaunic]

"Every human being, created in the image of God, is endowed with a power akin to that of the Creator-individuality, power to think and to do. The men in whom this power is developed are the men who bear responsibilities, who are leaders in enterprise, and who influence character. It is the work of true education to develop this power, to train the youth to be thinkers, and not mere reflectors of other men's thought. Instead of confining their study to that which men have said or written, let students be directed to the sources of truth, to the vast fields opened for research in nature and revelation. Let them contemplate the great facts of duty and destiny, and the mind will expand and strengthen. Instead of educated weaklings, institutions of learning may send forth men strong to think and to act, men who are masters and not slaves of circumstances, men who possess breadth of mind, clearness of thought, and the courage of their convictions. " EGW

[@danzwku]

"The European system of transatlantic chattel slavery is widely considered one of the most dehumanizing and cruel forms of slavery in history. Here's a breakdown: Key Factors in Comparison 1. Legal Status Chinese Slavery:Slaves in China often retained some recognition as humans, even if their freedoms were limited. Legal frameworks sometimes regulated their treatment, particularly in later dynasties (e.g., Tang and Song), and some slaves could buy their freedom or rise socially. European Slavery (Transatlantic):African slaves were considered property (chattel), with no legal recognition of their humanity. They could be bought, sold, or killed at the owner’s whim, with no recourse. Generational slavery ensured that even the descendants of slaves were born into bondage. Verdict: Slaves under European systems faced more severe dehumanization due to their complete lack of legal recognition. 2. Racial Dynamics Chinese Slavery:Most slaves were Han Chinese or ethnic minorities from within or near China’s borders. Slavery was not inherently race-based. Ethnic or cultural identity didn’t automatically condemn a group to slavery. For example, a Han Chinese person might fall into slavery due to debt or criminal punishment but could also rise again in society. European Slavery:The transatlantic system was racially driven, targeting Africans specifically. Slavery was justified through racial ideologies that framed Africans as inferior, creating long-term systems of racial oppression even after slavery’s abolition. Verdict: European slavery’s racial stratification added a layer of systemic discrimination that was largely absent in Chinese systems. 3. Work Conditions Chinese Slavery:Slaves could be domestic servants, laborers, or concubines. Domestic slaves often lived with their owners and sometimes received better treatment (akin to indentured servitude). Forced laborers, especially during massive infrastructure projects like the Great Wall, faced harsh conditions with high mortality rates. Household slaves might have lighter duties but could still be abused. European Slavery:Transatlantic slavery primarily used slaves for brutal agricultural labor (e.g., sugar, cotton, tobacco plantations). The work was grueling, with long hours in extreme climates, poor nutrition, and frequent physical abuse. Death rates were high, and slaves were easily replaced due to the scale of the slave trade. Verdict: European plantation slavery involved harsher physical conditions and was more industrialized, resulting in higher mortality and suffering. 4. Freedom and Mobility Chinese Slavery:Some slaves could buy their freedom, be granted freedom, or rise in status due to merit or favor. For example, loyal servants could become trusted aides, and their descendants might integrate into society. European Slavery:Freedom was nearly impossible to attain. Abolition was the primary pathway, but this only came after generations of suffering. Verdict: Chinese slavery allowed more avenues for manumission and upward mobility compared to European chattel slavery. 5. Physical Abuse Chinese Slavery:Physical abuse was present, particularly for forced laborers and concubines, but legal frameworks (especially in the Tang and Song Dynasties) discouraged extreme mistreatment of slaves. Domestic slaves were sometimes treated more like dependents, though this varied widely by household. European Slavery:Physical abuse, torture, and punishment were systematic and unrelenting. Whippings, mutilations, and sexual violence were commonplace. Slaves were viewed as expendable, so their health and well-being were secondary to maximizing profits. Verdict: European slavery was far more violent and physically brutal on a systemic level. Overall Comparison Severity of Treatment: Slaves under the European transatlantic system suffered more extreme conditions overall, including systemic physical abuse, complete dehumanization, and forced labor on a scale unmatched in Chinese history. Avenues for Freedom: Chinese slaves had more opportunities for upward mobility or manumission, unlike their counterparts in European colonies, who were trapped in lifelong servitude. Racial Dynamics: The transatlantic system uniquely racialized slavery, creating lasting legacies of racism and oppression. Conclusion: While both systems were exploitative and inhumane, the European transatlantic slave trade was more brutal, dehumanizing, and racially driven, causing suffering on a scale and with a cruelty that exceeded most forms of Chinese slavery."

[@onepartyroule]

Just out of curiosity, why are you only comparing European enslavement of Africans and Chinese slavery?

[@danzwku]

"The Balance of Scientific and Technological Superiority Between Chinese and Europeans Throughout History The balance of scientific and technological superiority between the Chinese and Europeans shifted throughout history, depending on the era and specific advancements. Here’s a breakdown aligned with the periods discussed earlier, now with a detailed look at each Chinese dynasty prior to the Han Dynasty: --- 1. Pre-Han China vs. Ancient Europe Xia Dynasty (c. 2070-1600 BCE) Chinese Superiority: Though the Xia is semi-legendary, archaeological evidence suggests early advancements in flood control and agriculture. Early metallurgy and urban planning were evident in proto-Chinese settlements. Europe: European Neolithic cultures during this period were transitioning from hunter-gatherer to agricultural societies. While megalithic structures like Stonehenge are notable, Europe lacked the level of organization and technological advancement seen in early China. Verdict: China, under the Xia, had superior practical technologies and social organization. Shang Dynasty (1600-1046 BCE) Chinese Superiority: The Shang mastered bronze metallurgy, creating advanced weapons, tools, and ritual vessels. They developed one of the world’s earliest writing systems (oracle bone script). Urban planning, including fortified cities, was highly sophisticated. Europe: Bronze Age Europeans were advancing in metallurgy and trade, but their technologies did not rival the precision or scale of Shang innovations. Writing systems were absent in most of Europe during this period. Verdict: The Shang Dynasty was technologically superior to contemporary Europe. Zhou Dynasty (1046-256 BCE) Chinese Superiority: The Zhou introduced cast iron, a major leap forward compared to bronze. Innovations in agriculture, such as crop rotation and irrigation, supported population growth. The Zhou period also saw the birth of major Chinese philosophical systems like Confucianism and Taoism, which shaped societal organization. Europe: During the early Zhou period, Europe was still in the Bronze Age, lagging behind China's advancements in metallurgy and agricultural techniques. By the late Zhou period, the Greeks began making strides in abstract sciences (e.g., mathematics, astronomy). Verdict: The Zhou Dynasty outpaced Europe in practical technological and organizational advancements, though Greece began to make progress in theoretical knowledge by the end of this era. Warring States Period (475-221 BCE) Chinese Superiority: This period saw intense innovation in weaponry and military tactics, including crossbows and large-scale infrastructure projects (e.g., early segments of the Great Wall). Advanced water management systems supported agriculture and urbanization. Europe: Greek and Roman advancements during this time included early engineering feats (e.g., aqueducts) and mathematics (e.g., Euclid). However, Europe lacked the level of state-supported technological innovation seen in China. Verdict: During the Warring States Period, China maintained superiority in applied technology, while Europe made strides in theoretical fields. --- 2. Ancient China vs. Ancient Europe (206 BCE-500 CE) Chinese Superiority: The Han Dynasty (206 BCE-220 CE) was a golden age of Chinese science and technology. Key advancements included paper-making, cast iron, advanced agricultural tools, and early seismology. The Chinese pioneered silk production and advanced water engineering (e.g., Dujiangyan Irrigation System). Europe: The Greeks and Romans made remarkable strides in architecture (e.g., aqueducts) and philosophy (e.g., Aristotle, Socrates). However, Roman technologies, while impressive (e.g., concrete, road-building), did not surpass the scope or sophistication of Chinese practical innovations. Verdict: China had superior applied science and technology during this period.

[@danzwku]

3. Early Middle Ages (500-1000 CE) Chinese Superiority: During the Tang Dynasty (618-907 CE), China excelled in medicine, astronomy, and printing (e.g., woodblock printing). The Tang period also saw the early use of gunpowder, though primarily for ceremonial purposes. Europe was in its “Dark Ages,” with much of its scientific progress stagnating after the fall of the Roman Empire. Verdict: China remained significantly ahead in science and technology. --- 4. High Middle Ages and Early Renaissance (1000-1500 CE) Chinese Superiority (1000-1300 CE): The Song Dynasty (960-1279 CE) brought a surge in technological innovation: The first use of movable-type printing. Advanced shipbuilding and navigational tools (e.g., magnetic compass). Gunpowder refined for military applications. The world’s first known mechanical clock. Europe was beginning to recover during the later medieval period but still lagged behind. European Catch-Up (1300-1500 CE): By the late Middle Ages, Europe began to close the gap with the Renaissance. The rediscovery of ancient Greek texts (often via the Islamic world) and innovations like the Gutenberg printing press accelerated progress. Chinese technological diffusion (e.g., gunpowder and printing) reached Europe, spurring advancements. Verdict: China dominated the early part of this era, but by the late medieval period, Europe began to match and surpass Chinese advancements in some areas. --- 5. Early Modern Period (1500-1800 CE) European Superiority: The Scientific Revolution (16th-18th centuries) in Europe marked a turning point. Europe saw breakthroughs in physics (Newton), astronomy (Copernicus, Galileo), and anatomy (Vesalius). The development of the telescope, microscope, and steam engines propelled Europe far ahead in theoretical and applied sciences. Meanwhile, China, under the Ming (1368-1644) and early Qing Dynasties (1644-1912), experienced stagnation in technological innovation due to isolationist policies and a focus on tradition over experimentation. Verdict: Europe overtook China in scientific and technological development, becoming the global leader during this era. --- 6. Industrial Age (1800-1900 CE) European Superiority: The Industrial Revolution solidified Europe’s dominance, with innovations in mechanized production, transportation (railroads, steamships), and communication (telegraph). China, under the late Qing Dynasty, struggled to adapt, as internal conflicts (e.g., Taiping Rebellion) and Western imperialism weakened the country. Attempts at modernization, like the Self-Strengthening Movement, were limited and unable to compete with European industrial might. Verdict: Europe was decisively superior in both science and technology during this period. --- 7. 20th Century and Beyond (1900-Present) 1900-1950s: Europe and the United States led global scientific advancement, particularly in physics (Einstein), chemistry, and medicine. China, weakened by wars and internal strife, lagged significantly. 1950s-1990s: Post-WWII, China began industrializing under Communist rule, but it wasn’t until the 1980s and reforms under Deng Xiaoping that China started catching up. Europe and the U.S. remained leaders in space exploration, computer technology, and modern medicine. 2000s-Present: China has re-emerged as a technological powerhouse, leading in areas like 5G, artificial intelligence, and renewable energy. Europe remains influential but is now often seen as trailing behind the U.S. and China in cutting-edge innovation. Verdict: Europe dominated until the mid-20th century, but modern China is now one of the global leaders in technology.

[@danzwku]

Overall Summary Xia Dynasty (c. 2070-1600 BCE): China was technologically superior. Shang Dynasty (1600-1046 BCE): China was technologically superior. Western Zhou Dynasty (1046-771 BCE): China was technologically superior. Eastern Zhou Dynasty (771-256 BCE): China was technologically superior. Spring and Autumn Period (770-476 BCE): China was technologically superior. Warring States Period (475-221 BCE): China was technologically superior. Qin Dynasty (221-206 BCE): China was technologically superior. Han Dynasty (206 BCE-220 CE): China was technologically superior. Three Kingdoms Period (220-280 CE): China was technologically superior. Jin Dynasty (266-420 CE): China was technologically superior. Southern and Northern Dynasties (420-589 CE): China was technologically superior. Sui Dynasty (581-618 CE): China was technologically superior. Tang Dynasty (618-907 CE): China was technologically superior. Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms (907-960 CE): China was technologically superior. Song Dynasty (960-1279 CE): China was technologically superior. During the later medieval period (circa 1200-1300 CE), Europe began to catch up due to exposure to Chinese innovations such as gunpowder and the compass. Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368 CE): China was still technologically superior, but Europe continued closing the gap, benefiting from the knowledge transfer during the Mongol Empire's Eurasian influence. Ming Dynasty (1368-1644 CE): China initially maintained technological superiority, but Europe overtook China by the late 15th century, marked by the Renaissance and Scientific Revolution. Qing Dynasty (1644-1912 CE): Europe was technologically superior, particularly after the Industrial Revolution (18th-19th centuries), as China faced stagnation and failed modernization attempts. For approximately 3,470 years up until 1500 CE, China maintained a clear advantage in science and technology, but Europe began to catch up between 1200 and 1500 CE, particularly during the late Song and Yuan Dynasties. 1500-1900 CE: Europe surpassed China, leading the world in scientific innovation during the Renaissance, Scientific Revolution, and Industrial Revolution. 20th Century Onward: Europe and China both regained prominence, with modern China challenging Western dominance in key fields." But Yanis is completely wrong on the PRC 🇨🇳 specifically, their actions, the West/US actions, and their dynamic/relationship, as per usual.

[@danzwku]

@@onepartyroule I was just curious about my own people, people can feel free to compare other regions too

[@zhigengfan8114]

Varoufakis sounds so radical and so arrogant. Cultures that she represents surely will decline

[@emilianosintarias7337]

varoufakis is the bald man

[@PhiloSurfer]

Yanis is a "he". Which woman are you referring to?

[@bluj78]

😂😂😂debating that point in 2024 is hilarious/self indulgent😂😂😂

[@meandme8049]

I like how Konstanti very subtly said that Yanis sucked as finance minister. Good job Konstantin.

[@sspbrazil]

Konstantin doesn’t know shit.

[@DRS659]

yanis mopped the floor with this ambulance chaser eh?

[@karagi101]

Yanis is a great story teller. The problem is he mixes some facts with his own interpretations of history as if everything is fact. He’s very convincing to the uninformed.

[@almiratlic8323]

@@karagi101 Why not back that up with an example?

[@karagi101]

@@almiratlic8323 I’m a Greek… he talks about European countries colonizing other countries. He ignores the 400 years of Ottoman Islamic rule over much of Europe - specifically the Balkans/Greece. Its occupied residents were treated like slaves. Wasn’t Spain colonized by Africans? Everyone colonized back then. China has colonized Tibet. Russia colonized eastern Europe and still holds onto satellite states.

[@DRS659]

@@karagi101 and to the informed too hahaha last time I checked ckomsky was part of the advisory board of DiEM25...must be some story teller to pull over theyes of figures like chomsky, assange, klein, zizek, etc.

[@karagi101]

@ Do these folks in DIEM25 hold the same views on everything? On history, politics, governance, monetary policy, etc? They obviously don’t. They agree on a couple of narrow issues. Just because these people are in DIEM25 as Yanis is doesn’t mean they agree with everything Yanis says and even if they did, it doesn’t make them right.

[@Opensourcetemple1]

i would like to also remind that people also often underestimate the effect of organized crime on the economy, not just in the drugs trade kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZvCanyulJujgZo which requires international coordination and supports regulatory capture, which means the enemies of the west, are not always states. and thus cannot be solved via the national security state of any unitary state.

[@lamrof]

የምዕራባውያን ባህል አሁንም በውስጡ ተወልደው ለሚያድጉት ሁሉ አስተምህሮቱ ክፍፍል፣ ራስ ወዳድነት፣ ነገዳዊ የሀብትና የርስት ክምችት፣ መናናቅ፣ በዘር መዋቀር፣ ወዘተ የሚባሉትን አጥፊ ባሕርያትን ነው። አቶ ያኒስ ቫሮውቫኪስ ይህ ነገር ገብቶታል። በሚያረካ ሁኔታ እውነትን ከሚናገሩ ስዎች አንዱ ነው።

[@gregmurphy8059]

ummm... "Konstantin Kisin is a Sunday Times best-selling author, comedian, satirist, social commentator and host of TRIGGERnometry, a free speech KZbin show and podcast, based on open, fact-based discussion of important and controversial issues." "fact-based discussion" is a very very loose phrase to use for that podcast.

[@darkright3001]

Yanis is always brilliant.

[@RationalistMH]

With all due respect, the Holberg committee is really scraping the bottom of the barrel inviting Konstantin Kissin, an internet comedian turned ‘anti woke warrior’ to face two highly accomplished academics with decades of work behind them. I have no issue with ideological diversity, but is Kissin really the best guy to represent the conservative side of the aisle?

[@Platinho]

oh poor women, n33d m9ore money

[@victormeksin2998]

Браво, Константин!

[@PetreSmith]

😐 For anyone reading the comments to gauge whether this debate is worth their time; it’s not, in my opinion. I dropped off at 1:16:32 - the debate feels disjointed with two barely lukewarm intellectuals going up against a relatively well informed comedian.

[@jimplamondon637]

Kisin was struggling because he was a cannon against pop-guns.

[@montgomeryscot6623]

I miss Christopher Hitchens.

[@duncanmckeown1292]

Sarah Montague! That gets me out of here early. A BBC apparatchik of the highest order.

[@fafolaw]

The UN has not reported that they found rockets in their schools several times in Ukraine, but they have said it about their schools in Gaza. Amensty International (as bad as their reporting is) have not said the Ukrainian military uses hospitals, but they have said that about Hamas. Ukraine never did an Oct 7th-style attack on Russian civilians, Hamas did. Ukraine doesn't have Russian civilian hostages, Hamas does. The Ukranian military doesn't have tunnels all under the country that are exclusively used for the military with zero bunkers for their people, Hamas does in Gaza. The goal of Ukraine is not the destruction of Russia, the goal of Hamas is the destruction of Israel. These are basic facts that Varoufakis doesn't understand and make both situations completly different.

[@AC-nz6np]

Greek dude interrupting and coming from a place of emotion m. I’m glad I’m no longer a leftie buffon