My friend watches Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Ultimate Edition) for the FIRST time || DCEU

[@HoldenHardman]

Make sure to check out Matt's behind the scenes here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3KYeml3h5mbn6c

[@Mr.Hollywood001]

Yo ya should react to the Amazing Spider-Man 2 movie pleae

[@bergerboy5507]

You do you Holden your jokes are funny and don’t you let anyone tell you different

[@joshuadownes9449]

Love ya Holden dw it’s okay

[@alexslusher16]

I was gonna say "Did they watch the Ultimate Edition?" then I saw it said Ultimate Edition in the title. Honestly, I recently watched Batman v Superman Dawn of Justice Ultimate Edition, I really enjoyed it more than the Theatrical Edition. I haven't seen the film since I saw it in theaters back in 2016.

[@scottelement]

So MFW not doing the remaining Wandavision episodes? Or?

[@theblackarrow1373]

"If there is even a 1% chance that Matt doesn't like this movie, we have to take it as an absolute certainty" - Ben Affleck (probably)

[@gammawolf3]

"Tell me... do you nitpick?"

[@JTtheMid]

@@gammawolf3 SAVE...JENNA...

[@evan9902]

“Jen... WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME!” - Holden

[@Tyler_W]

That's existential risk philosophy for you.

[@putalover4519]

Mean let's be honest. Bvs is a terrible film.

[@SandShark350]

What Jeremy said was spot on, the Martha scene was misinterpreted by a lot of people. First of all no one's ever accused Batman of being mentally sound or emotionally sound rather. He is still and always will be traumatized by what happened to his parents. In that moment hearing his mother's name that he clearly still dreams about, it shook him and broke through. And then he realized Superman wasn't begging for his life, he was begging for his mother's, didn't care if he died at that point, he just wanted his mom to be saved. Batman realized this is not just some alien, he was humanized.

[@stijnvandenheuvel8117]

But Batman talks about his parents less then five minutes before this happens

[@mullaoslo]

@@stijnvandenheuvel8117 regardless when supes say you must save Martha (he says this because he's not trying to save his own life by saying save my mom) batman loses it because he thinks the alien is mocking him ... Also remember he still has his foot on supes neck so that's probably why he doesn't elaborate when batman loses it.. When he makes the connection that he has a human mom that he's willing to give it all for he INSTANTLY knows this guy is not just some alien.. He has a life here... Remember the only reason batman wants him dead is because there may be a 1% he may turn evil but learning about his mom he know knows superman would never willingly turn or earth aka his home.. So now he instantly becomes someone he wants to help rather than kill (

[@the_ZAMURAI]

@@stijnvandenheuvel8117 yes, in rage. That’s the point.

[@drherak]

I think that scene would've been saved if they also had a flashback to when the Flash said to find Lois. Then watch Batman put the 2+2 together.

[@The-Batman]

@@stijnvandenheuvel8117 What's your point?

[@mullaoslo]

I'm glad the Snyder Cut is getting more People to give BvS a second chance

[@paladindarc]

BvS still sucks tho, and the only reason is they rushed the death of Superman, he had one movie and was killed in the next movie... and they teased the returned of Superman in the end of the same movie... lmao

[@bombasticgamin8447]

@@paladindarc Nope. BvS is great.

[@ProfeFut]

@@paladindarc your opinion is wrong. BvS is great especially the extended version

[@mullaoslo]

@@paladindarc why do people who don't like BvS say it suck like it's an objective fact.. 5 years later and still love analysing the movie.. It has so many layers

[@LuthandoDlomo]

@@paladindarc yeah good point, while i liked BvS the death of Superman did feel rushed but from what i understood back then is that it was planned for the Justice League to assemble without him to bring a certain kind of gravitas to all the other characters. Other people not understanding that felt disappointed because of that. Elements Snyder includes always tie in later and he gives everything thought, so i watched that knowing JL would be character driven (his cut, not the theatrical) and when you watch it you'll see what i mean.

[@DenverFilms]

People never seem to understand Batman in this movie. He is an old Batman, he is tormented from what he has gone through and everything he has lost during his career as the Batman. At this point in time he has essentially lost all hope for humanity and only becomes the Batman to take out criminals instead of bringing them to justice. That is why he has gone against his no kill rule. By the end of the movie we see that Superman’s death restores Bruce’s hope and respect for humanity and changes his perspective on being a hero. This is clearly shown in his final monologue “Men are still good, we fight, we kill, we betray one another, but we can rebuild we can do better, we will. We have to.” I wish people gave Ben Affleck’s Batman the respect it deserves.

[@DenverFilms]

I also want to address the Martha “issue” . Yes, this is Bruce now seeing superman as more of a human and acknowledging that he has a family and a mom, but the main reason that he decides to team up with superman is because he realizes that by killing superman in that moment, he is essentially becoming the man that killed his parents when he was a kid, and THAT is what Batman has always sworn that he would never become and that is why he snapped out of it so quickly, because for the first time, he saw himself in superman.

[@LuthandoDlomo]

You sir, are a man of culture for being able to see the deeper psychology underlying Batman and the Martha scene, many viewers didn't see the depth being portrayed... i believe this is because many have forgotten movies (film as a whole) are art, not entertainment. All art-forms require you to see everything as a whole, the complexities and details and everything except it's face value. Batman's character and the Martha scene only fall short at face value. Dope comment though bro and i really dig your perspective.

[@Jptm26]

Really interesting analisys man, congrats. 👏 I still think they could have made their reason for being friends a bit better and it didn't have to be in this movie, if the story was a bit different. To me, the problem with this Batman is that people tell you he's been doing this for years and that he's lost a lot, but they never showed it to you, so when you see Batman killing like crazy, despite you being told why he does it, they never took the time to show you. There should have been 1 or 2 Batman movies showing him lose everything and getting tired, so that when we got to this point, we would understand his motivations better

[@thomasjohnson1885]

@@LuthandoDlomo Bruh you could just think it wasn't executed well. To have Bruce kind of quickly go from "I'm gonna kill you" to "I make you a promise". It kind of focuses too much on the Martha part and not the mother part

[@John_Frost28]

No one cares about this shitty movie.

[@JimmyXWolvie]

"Batman looks THICK" -Matt...from Matt lane fitness

[@buffnipz]

Matt Lane thickness

[@willscruton2631]

@@buffnipz you beat me to it

[@chasedunagan]

Jenna's back. All is right with the world again.

[@swissbeats2k]

She's fine!

[@Crescentknight8189]

It’s like watching the Flash without Caitlin.

[@sammiegamer7456]

Lol ok.

[@saulturner3567]

YAYYYY!!!

[@fps8786]

Did she got sick?

[@NeoSe7ens]

Literally the only theatrical Batman that hasn't killed is Batman & Robin.

[@MiladAlamir]

Christian Bale's Batman technically didn't kill anyone, the closest he got was not saving Raa's Al Ghul and saving Gordon's kid

[@d0g3king]

@@MiladAlamir didn’t he blow up the whole ninja thing and killed a lot of people including two face?

[@kartikadewi3270]

@@d0g3king Yep. Bruce Even killed his best friend Harvey

[@d0g3king]

@@kartikadewi3270 yea

[@agentbertmacklin9880]

@@d0g3king he killed two face because he was about to shoot a child and technically he was attempting to save the child not kill two face

[@whofactchecksthefactcheckers]

I dont think batman changed his mind because both their moms were named Martha but because Bruce knew exactly how Clark felt in that moment and he had a chance to save Martha this time

[@mattsell2361]

He also realized he became the thing that killed his parents he realized he is now the murderer who will be responsible for taking someone’s parents away and he became Batman to stop those people which is why he freaked out

[@Cam09Sean1]

@@mattsell2361I think another reason is he realized there is a zero percent chance Superman would turn evil because he had a human mother and he was begging to save her and didn’t care if he died, and Batman realized Supes was willing to die for a human and realized Supes is also human and not some alien who might turn evil.

[@DannyTanimoto]

I can't be mad at Matt here. This is one of those times where the movie really isn't friendly to people who aren't steeped in DC. Love this movie, but I get where he's coming from

[@officialflikz]

Specially Matt doesn't really enjoy big loud plane cgi fights, they're usually all over the place and take all sense of realism out of the equation

[@Neyodip]

@@Wlof25 watch the Snyder cut on March 18th only on HBOmax

[@utefanivan]

Completely see what you’re saying here. And wholeheartedly agree.

[@JJSMJ]

@@Wlof25 except that is earned after hours and hours and hours of character development. This movie is hot garbage

[@itzsamic]

@@Wlof25 He never specified character development solely within endgame. The MCU characters HAVE HAD hours and hours of development, tony stark and cap especially

[@trevormink6001]

Imagine people wanting holden to stop talking in his own videos lol. Keep doing you, man. Edit: wow, y'all. Thanks for the likes. Also, I watch holdens movie reactions and reviews BECAUSE it's holden. I just thought it was weird that people watch someone's content, but can have such a negative reaction to his videos that he has to address it. Have a great day everyone!

[@ysm7522]

Fr he’s been doing this for while people should be used to now

[@darcenex14]

We’ve finally reached a series he doesn’t definitively praise so it’s weird listening to him spoil and/or talk bad before during and after.

[@jamisonlynch6437]

Exactly, you don’t like him talking then just don’t watch.

[@_SomeGuyOnline]

"If Holden talks at all, how will his friends understand that this is the greatest movie ever and that Zack Snyder is a GENIUS??" - Someone, probably.

[@ISavant]

imagine not talking shit during a DC film.

[@z1205]

Theatrical cut was garbage. Ultimate Edition is AMAZING.

[@anirudhmenon4234]

Nah, it's just longer garbage.

[@nicholaslemosdecarvalho5328]

I couldn't enjoy the theatrical version, but I thought the extended version was actually fine

[@pnut3844able]

Both were garbage

[@jasonsjustbetter2037]

@@pnut3844able no.

[@pnut3844able]

@@jasonsjustbetter2037 yes

[@SwiftlySkating]

Trying to explain BVS to casuals....damn near impossible

[@jimmy2k4o]

Like explained time

[@1940Joker]

Here I am to confirm it, I have a lot of experience in that. But despite that, it doesn't bother me to keep explaining BvS to those who don't understand it.

[@ChyeahWill]

I understand it all and the movie still sucks lmao.

[@abelsanchez2070]

Part of why its not that good of a movie

[@Shythalia]

Hmm, I wonder what Jen will think about "Captain America: Civil War" since she said she doesn't like heroes fighting against each other.

[@sammiegamer7456]

We’ll see lol.

[@brewcityjesus]

It's marvel so she'll probably love it

[@barbaramcgee8933]

@@brewcityjesus It's done well, so she'll probably like it.

[@Drybones2015]

@@barbaramcgee8933 If by well done you mean Cap was being selfish and Stark was being petty.

[@pawepetek7294]

@@Drybones2015 how was Cap selfish? In Winter Soldier Cap saw how governments can be corrupted so he knew the safest hands were their own. Did you even watch the film? And if you refer to the whole Bucky/Winter Soldier being his friend and that's why he was on his side and it making him selfish then you must be kidding me lmao why would Cap want his best friend to get killed because of something he didn't want to do and was forced to do?

[@alexmaverick6647]

One thing I never noticed is that Lex Luthor is referred to by the guard at the end as “prisoner AC 231940.” And the character was first introduced in Action Comics issue 23 in the year 1940.

[@SWTobito0702]

That is amazing. Those are the details in CBMs that I will always love.

[@Rubix9595RG]

Those tiny details are always dope as F

[@jimmy2k4o]

The way the guard emphasised the badge rumber brought your attention to it. It remember thinking must be detective comics issuesz. Couldn’t remember it’s ordinal name of action movies.

[@nate8604]

You have a good eye.

[@Chuck_EL]

@@SWTobito0702 I understand what Zack Snyder was doing with Lex Luthor (this is the actual Lex) he's always been a Jr , Smallville the tv show just called him Lionel to give a difference Love how vicious Ben's Batman is, he's always been ruthless in the comics

[@tonyflorez1146]

You can definitely get away with skipping Suicide squad for now , it seems like the Joker only exist in the knightmare scenes of ZSJL, but I am very against skipping WW. Diana has the strongest characterization in the DCEU plus skipping the introduction of the Amazons completely destroys any weight their scenes might have.

[@DS9Sisko]

The audience reaction to "the Two Martha's scene" has always bothered me. A lot of people think that scene is BvS's "jump the shark" moment and has been a major joke ever since. Even Snyder himself has recently succumbed to the joke (because a) at this point what can be done about it? and b) his vindication has been the $70 million that WB has thrown his way to make his version of JL, so why not?). But here's the thing: Snyder sets up that Martha moment from the VERY FIRST SEGMENT and threads it all the way through until that moment. It's not a "convenient" plot coincidence at all. In fact, this is the primary character motivation for Bruce/Batman's psychology and his actions in BvS. Let's quickly revisit: In almost every version of the comics, the murder of Thomas & Martha Wayne is the touchstone event that leads to Bruce Wayne becoming Batman. Throughout, the details have changed: their killer was either a nameless thug, Matches Malone, Joe Chill, Jack Napier, or Jack Napier. The family was coming from a theater performance, an opera, "The Grey Ghost" or "The Mark of Zorro." So depending on the multiverse version of things, changes aren't new. In BvS, Snyder keeps all of the classic details the same: the Waynes leave The Mark of Zorro, and they are mugged and shot in front of Bruce with Thomas being the first victim and Martha second as the mugger snatches her pearls. It is here that Snyder makes a pivotal change: in almost every version of the Batman origin story, Bruce idolizes or is the most deeply affected by his father's death. But in BvS, Snyder deeply shifts the perspective in a way that is easy to miss but in front of us from the very beginning: Bruce's deepest grief and fixation are focused on Martha. The evidence is in both the theatrical cut and the ultimate edition: when the Wayne's are killed, there is an extensive focus on her confrontation with the mugger and the shot of her pearls falling; Thomas's last word is "Martha"; when Bruce comes to the aid of the little girl in the wake of the Superman/Zod fight he doesn't ask her where her parents are but specifically the location of her mother (and when he sees she's been killed, his anger toward Superman grows deeper); one of Bruce's nightmares involves a massive bat breaking through Martha's name plaque at her tomb; when Bruce visits the Wayne tomb for real at Wayne Manor prior to his confrontation with Superman the camera angle is such that we see both his parent's names but the perspective has Martha's name larger and closer to the camera. So it's really clear by the time Batman is ready to kill Superman that when Superman says "Save Martha" and Bruce starts freaking out, the groundwork has been laid. It's not a mere coincidence both of their mothers have the same name (as they have had in the comics, tv shows, and movies for decades), but Snyder found a new spin on it that he threaded throughout the movie. Batman and Superman don't become insta-buddies because their mothers share the same name; Batman is snapped out of his spiral by being reminded of what led him to his actions in the first place. There was no cheating, no shortcut, no jump the shark moment. Snyder simply changed the perspective, but it went over a lot of folks' heads. I've always found it as weird as the complaint/criticism that people claim they "didn't know why Superman and Batman are fighting" when it's set up in Man of Steel and literally recapped from that movie and explored in-depth before the showdown in BvS. It's quite literally all there.

[@jaiminsharma]

True.... But I also think it would be much better if Zack starts to give those upcoming plot twists a little more depth so that people could get hold of it....like in ZSJL... Flash reversed time almost 2 times... Yet some people can't get it...

[@sirfriendzone1228]

"We're criminals, Alfred. We've always been criminals." Bruce Wayne My favorite line in any comic book film not named Deadpool.

[@gabrielp9646]

What a terrible line... There are some good lines in this movie, that´s not one of them.

[@stijnvandenheuvel8117]

@@gabrielp9646 I like it. It's definitely not as high up, but it's probably one of the better lines in the movie for me.

[@JimmyXWolvie]

@@gabrielp9646 I respect your opinion, but just want to point out that because this version of batman is pulled from the Dark Knight Returns comic, that line in the movie was part of the translation from page to screen.

[@habitsrabbit]

@@gabrielp9646 bruh it's from the comics.. I'm sure you'd think it was a great line if you read it in the comics. And I'm sure you only think it's terrible because it's in BvS.

[@gabrielp9646]

@@JimmyXWolvie This movie is almost the opposite of the Dark Knight Returns Comic... In the comic Batman doesn´t kill (in fact, the final act of the Joker is killing himself, to ruin Batman´s reputation...) in this movie he´s ruining his reputation on his own. In the comic Batman and Superman HATE fighting each other (in fact, Superman stops fighting when he sees Bruce is having health issues with his x-ray vision), in the movie they both act like pseudo-villains. In the movie Batman is old and broken, and he can´t barely fight anymore, in the movie he´s a brute. In the comic Batman literally spends decades and a fortune researching for a way to neutralize Superman (without killing him), in the movie, Batman beats Superman´s ass with kryptonite dust. In the comics, Batman says "of course we´re criminals" in front of a formal committee, that´s accusing him of acting out of the law, here he says it to Alfred, in the intimacy of their home.

[@rickyricardo2280]

The way he snapped “that’s Jeremy Irons my guy” 😂😂

[@newdarkfilms5918]

I’m sorry but if you think Martha is the reason they are friends, you completely missed the point. It wasn’t about their mothers having the same name, it’s the moment Bruce realises that the alien whom he’s planning to murder, is not only loved by a mother, but he realises that Clark is more human than he is. It’s not about the name, the name was just a catalyst, it’s a moment of self realisation for Bruce that not only was he wrong, but he has lost who he was. That’s why he’s branding people, no qualms about killing. And remember, Keaton’s Batman also killed. He burned someone alive with the Batmobile, he planted a bomb on someone and smiled about it. As for Batman with a gun, it’s a nightmare future where Darkseid has succeeded in taking over the Earth and Superman is his general. Look at the Omega sign on the ground when Bruce is watching the burning city. If you’re up against the universe’s most powerful dictator, of course you’re gonna need firepower. These points you have are ore nitpicking and that’s why I hate when people criticise the movie for the wrong reason.

[@EntwistleOx]

Agree, catharsis for bruce

[@pinkspider28]

This comment!!! 💖

[@SpaceAlley]

He didnt think Superman was loved by his mother, while he dragged him on the floor talking about how he bets Supermans parents told him he would be a savior/great?

[@newdarkfilms5918]

@@SpaceAlley you’re charged with adrenaline, you’ve plotted the death of someone you think is going to destroy the world. You think that passing comment is going to resonate with Batman? He’s on a full kill rage. That’s why he yells and gets angry when Clark says Martha, because he thinks it’s a trick. And when Lois tells him who she is, it becomes much more personal, it snaps him out of his Kill rage, and then the realisation hits him. He does have a mother, he does have someone who loves him, he’s more human than himself,

[@SpaceAlley]

@@newdarkfilms5918 How does Superman even survive inhaling kryptonite gas into his lungs and blood stream?

[@TheDarkAdventure]

"Adding characters in a movie without backstory isn't good story telling" "This isn't because I like Marvel" Sir, nearly every movie you've ever watched introduces several characters to tell the story. Not every film needs 75 prequels and spinoffs. Marvel has smoothed your brain completely if you honestly believe that. "Basic storytelling" is telling a story in one shot and not requiring film DLC to understand it. As Scorsese says, "That's not cinema".

[@thomasschreiner527]

Thank you.

[@parkerboy795]

True, but the way the film introduced the characters here wasn't as good as it could have been. Namely, it feel unnecessary.

[@TheDarkAdventure]

@@muhammadh.6394 come on man, any film without prequels for every single main character is trash. Pulp Fiction, Shawshank, you name it. All garbage lol

[@TheDarkAdventure]

@@parkerboy795 Aquaman, Cyborg, and the Flash cameos do feel unnecessary until the end when the theme is coming together with different kinds of people. That and a setup for the next film. This was supposed to be a 5 film arc but ..... 🥲 that was the past.

[@The-Batman]

Here here

[@jernigan007]

Warehouse scene: BEST BATMAN FIGHT EVER

[@Kronical69420]

Yup. As much as hate this movie, best Batman fight scene. Watching the Nolan Batman fights with his elbows is just brutal.

[@Lowkenn_Edits]

@@Kronical69420 movie was amazing idk what u talking about

[@gabrielp9646]

Also, one of the only 2 good scenes in this movie.

[@stijnvandenheuvel8117]

@@Lowkenn_Edits It's not. It's entertaining, I like it, but it's not good.

[@Kronical69420]

@@Lowkenn_Edits Taste is subjective. If you enjoyed it awesome. However if it was shown in film school the subject would be "what not to do"

[@gammawolf3]

Holden constantly makes comments when he's watching the MCU movies with Jen too He isn't "just a MCU fanboy hating on DC" when he's doing that

[@anouar3194]

Because hè has already seen the mcu movies like 20 times over and over.

[@FredMaverik]

The DCEU movies fucking suck though meanwhile Marvel is amazing.

[@americasteam2112]

It’s because Snyder fanboys can’t handle when people criticize the movies.

[@zjm6931]

@@FredMaverik that just makes the mcu amazing? Do you know the other media dc has, comics? Animation? Check those out before being calling marvel amazing lmao.

[@ISavant]

DCEU fans are notoriously unable to handle any semblance of joy or fun, that's why they like shit like these movies.

[@Prinzmetal49]

I tear up every time I see Superman die in this movie. And today I teared up for the first time at the Martha scene. This movie gets better every time.

[@catlife9497]

I'm rewatching all these dc movies now and honestly they're actually pretty good.

[@cameroontube3180]

Jen : “Hero vs Hero..... I didn’t like that” Yeah about that.... 😅

[@MiscEightySeven]

Lmao

[@the_notorious_one4018]

It's different for marvel though they setted that up greatly

[@trevorphilips9065]

@@the_notorious_one4018 Yeah but here it was more of a them becoming The League where in the MCU it was the opposite

[@cameroontube3180]

@@the_notorious_one4018 that is very true. Civil war is great!

[@Rhodair]

aye MCU's wasn't so contrived and certainly helps to be well executed

[@TitanLRV]

This is for people who wonder why Batman kils and is as brutal as he is in this movie : The thing about Batman killing is that, that was supposed to be part of his character arc through Snyder's 5 film DCEU plan. It's not because Snyder doesn't get Batman. He knows that Batman doesn't kill or use guns. But he wanted to explore the scenario of : What if Batman did kill and use guns and he ended up redeeming himself at the end? At the beginning of BvS, Batman is an old tired and hopeless shell of his former self. He has now succumbed to his dark side. During his life time, he has seen countless of people he cared about turn evil and countless of loved ones die like his parents or like Robin. He has become so traumatized by the events that have happened in his life that he has lost the hope that he once had that there is still good in people and in humanity in general. So now, he has become an alcoholic and a drug addict who hooks up with women when he is not being Batman. And when he is Batman, he doesn't directly murder people in cold blood but now he has become so careless that he doesn't care anymore if people get killed due to his actions. After directly witnessing the destruction and the death caused by Superman, he is convinced that he needs to stop that extraterrestrial being no matter the cost. Bruce is not aware that Superman grew up on Earth with human parents who loved him, cared for him and raised him. For all he knows is that a god powered alien is bringing destruction to Earth even though his intentions might be good. After his Nightmare of the apocalyptic timeline where Darkseid is now ruling the Earth and Superman has succumbed to the anti-life equation, he is now absolutely convinced that he needs to kill that extraterrestrial being before the time comes when he turns on humanity thus destroying everything he loves and cares about. During the infamous Martha scene, Bruce now realizes that Superman, in his last moments, pleads for Batman to save his mother instead of his own life. This makes him realize that Clark actually has loved ones who care about him and that he is much more than just a god powered extraterrestrial being. He realizes that he is perhaps more human than himself. In shock, Bruce realizes how far he has gone where he was now about to directly murder someone in cold blood by impaling him with a spear. And then, after seeing Superman sacrifice himself to save the planet where people were despising him and making him seem like an evil demonic being, he now sees his former self in Superman's actions by remembering how honorable his former self used to be. This convinces him that he needs to turn back to his old ways where he would rather capture someone and let justice do it's thing than to torture and murder people. That's why he says at the end of BvS when talking about Clark : ''I failed him in life. I won't fail him in death.'' Now, from here on, Bruce's character was progressively suppose to change in each upcoming movie until he would eventually turn back into being the Batman that we all know and love. And he was finally suppose to sacrifice himself at the end of Justice League 3 to save the faith of humanity thus completing his character arc that started with BvS. I feel that it's a little unfair how people kept shitting on Batman breaking his no-killing rule in BvS while all of the previous Batman movies show him murdering people and yet nobody complains about that. Yes BvS is flawed but it is nowhere near as terrible as people like to say it is and it is simply false that Zack Snyder doesn't understand Batman. His interpretation of Batman might not be your cup of tea, but that is not a valid reason for people to shit all over him and to ridicule his fandom for enjoying his work. People love saying that his fans are toxic but to be honest, the people mocking Zack Snyder and his fans aren't any better at all.

[@TitanLRV]

@@muhammadh.6394 thanks!

[@colinclevenger5540]

Finally, someone who understands the Martha scene 🙌🏻🙌🏻

[@TitanLRV]

@@colinclevenger5540 fuck yeah! I find it ironic how people completely misinterpret the Martha scene and then they go on and complain about how stupid it was 🤦🏽‍♂️ Like wtf you didn't even understand it! Why would Zack make it so that Batman stops wanting to murder Supes because their mom has the same name? That makes no sense! 😂😂😂

[@drojaszrojas7911]

Didn’t he say Batman could be raped?

[@TitanLRV]

@@drojaszrojas7911 Not at all. You are completely misinterpreting what he actually said. Basically during an interview, the interviewer was asking him questions about if he thought that the Dark Knight Trilogy was as dark as people said that it was. Because a lot of people, at the time, were saying that those movies were really dark. So then he was basically saying that in his opinion, they were darker than the previous Batman movies that were released, but when you look at them in an objective way, they are not really dark at all. Then he said in a sarcastic or ironic way that to him, a really really dark Batman movie, would be something where like Batman is in prison getting raped. But he said it in a sarcastic kind of way. But all of his haters are taking that out of context and making it seem like if he said that he wants to direct a movie where Batman gets raped in prison which is of course not true. And this is why context is important and people shouldn't be taking stuff out of context because you lose the meaning behind things.

[@nickpiccolo9106]

Jen: "I dont like heroes fighting.." Me: *worries about her watching Civil War when the time comes...*

[@jgreen2015]

2 major differences 1) that antagonism is built up and makes sense 2) civil war is good

[@cauaviniciusguedes2004]

@@jgreen2015 well about that...stupid friedly battle.

[@habitsrabbit]

@@cauaviniciusguedes2004 "stupid friedly battle" ...wut?

[@spideyy6863]

@@jgreen2015 nope the climax of Civil War was really stupid

[@TheDaks27]

@@spideyy6863 I know just realized it's the same plot of BVS, villan with a grudge masterminds a scenario so that superheroes fight each other

[@paiwastonsaid7848]

Batman v Superman - Martha Argument: Batman does not spare Superman because their mother’s share the same name. Batman has spent 18 months obsessing over killing this alien who can destroy Earth. It isn’t until Superman uses the name that the alien becomes humanized. At first Batman becomes even more enraged because he thinks it’s another trick. But once he realizes it’s Clarks mother’s name he begins to understand that maybe they’re not so different. He never considered the evil alien had a human mother or let alone would be willing to die for her. Bruce couldn’t save his mother. No matter how many goons Batman brands, he was a helpless kid when she was killed just like Clark is now. He’ll never be able to bring his Martha back. Now he has an opportunity for redemption. It literally has nothing to do with their mother’s having the same name, that was just the spark (that you can see snapping Bruce out of his kill-rage) that showed him Superman wasn’t pure evil. With potentially his last breath he asked his killer to save someone else. There’s no argument. It’s not confusing. It’s not grasping at straws. It’s in the narrative. It’s the entire reason we were shown the murder of the Wayne one more time. This moment goes down as one of the biggest problems amongst the dissenters, when it’s actually one of the most emotionally stirring and theme appropriate scenes if you’re paying attention. And the reason he decided to team up with Superman is because he’s finally able to listen to logic now that the kill-rage is gone.

[@The-Batman]

Well said!

[@paiwastonsaid7848]

@@The-Batman Appreciate it!

[@nijel1943]

Did you just copy cinemawins?

[@Sergio-bh7cu]

Batman's "one rule" in the Nolan movies was never that he would not kill. It's that he would not become an executioner. At the end of each Nolan film he (kind of) kills one of the villains, with varying degrees of culpability. In Batman Begins he simply chooses not to save Ras Al Ghul, so he isn't really responsible for his death. But in the Dark Knight he does push Harvey Dent off a rooftop which kills him in the fall. And in TDKR he shoots at Talia's vehicle causing her to crash and die as a result. I suppose you could play semantics and say he wasn't directly trying to kill them, but he does cause them to die.

[@KevinLopez-dm2tb]

This will go over their heads (Holden’s especially as he said so himself in this video he holds the TDK trilogy in highest regards which is understandable and pretty sure everyone can agree on but he uses that particular iteration of Batman as the standard because of the moral code thing and people forget Batman in the early comics did use guns. Every live action take on Batman has killed someone in some form of fashion but Holden or Jeremy don’t seem to bring it up) because not a lot of people bring this up

[@SuperSanity1]

Batman has killed in pretty much every movie that's widely loved. Also, he's definitely responsible for Ra's death. Who destroyed the train controls?

[@manmadetunao2597]

Well in the dark knight trilogy it’s more indirectly and never what Bruce wants Killing someone is different then murdering someone Batman in this movie was straight murdering people

[@vishall8246]

@@KevinLopez-dm2tb same with superman. Superman 2 superman break's a human Zods hand then throws him in some ditch. There was a scene of zod being taken away but that was deleted so it's not canon. Also if Donner wanted to show zod being alive why didn't he use the scene in the Donner cut. It's clear he wanted to show viewers that after superman throws him in the ditch he dies. A human falling in some ditch in the damn fortress wouldn't survive. And I don't even think it's a small Ditch.

[@PizzaHutCEO]

There’s a big difference between being forced to kill and just indiscriminately killing, much less with a GUN. That’s not Batman.

[@josepablolanderosbuenrrost2945]

Holden back then: ah yes, three movies in one 12 minute video Holden now: you know what? Give BvS an hour long video

[@ransleyhaines5638]

Don’t forget whenever Batman kills someone in this movie, it’s always in self defense after they fire at him first. Same with the grenade guy. It’s like a cop shooting back in self defense

[@HeatKingMedia]

Everyone complains about Batman killing people but Superman liternally smashed that Warlord through the wall at the beginning lol.

[@SpaceAlley]

Superman is trash in this movie too

[@LautaroMarchioliLeonelWM]

Superman punched through the walls with his fist, he didn't smashed the Warlord through the walls. That Warlord is alive. Superman literally says in the next scene that he didn't killed anybody in Africa.

[@mattsell2361]

@@SpaceAlley Superman is amazing in this movie

[@SpaceAlley]

@@mattsell2361 he barely even spoke

[@Bxyxox]

@@mattsell2361 lmao he’s nothing close to being amazing. Henry’s acting is subpar but atleast he has the look

[@jamesburgess2k]

Funny that Jen mentioned Gone Girl, because after watching that movie, that made me fully comfortable with Ben Affleck being Batman. Or at least assured that he'll give a good performance

[@zombierepublican]

In surprised they didn’t all praise Batman, he was one of the few things people liked, and was well reviews for

[@ThatBlakeCampbell]

@@zombierepublican because he’s too one dimensional. Affleck is fine/pretty good, but all does is be angry Batman in this movie.

[@JimmyXWolvie]

"That's how it starts sir. The FEVER. the RAGE. The feeling of...POWERLESSNESS. That turns good men...CRUEL." -Alfred Pennyworth

[@The-Batman]

He sums up what Bruce is going through in one sentence but a lot of people didn't click.

[@elriatonvaquero6212]

Lmao

[@NightwingRock]

The amount of Snyder hate in these comments depresses me. Yes some of the people in our community are toxic, that doesn’t represent all of us

[@tyskyis4020]

This movie doesn’t understand Batman The Martha scene doesn’t work if Batman is a killer. He stops attacking Superman because he sees the human element of him. He sees that Superman is a person. But why does he stop when he sees the human part of him, when he literally guns down people right after that. There is no growth there, all that does is make him like Superman slightly more. Holden even brings this up when he says, “wonder if their mothers names were Martha too” I love the cinematography, music, and presentation, but the writing is its biggest flaw.

[@jacobmullender4732]

Batman: doesn’t kill Superman because his Mom’s Name is Martha. Also Batman: blows up a bunch of people in cars just 5 minutes later. Holden: “I wonder if their Mom’s Name is Martha, too?”🤣

[@steezleman7845]

It's not just about his mom name being marth. It's about him realizing that the end of the day superman loves a person just like everyone else meaning it made him more humanized in batman's eyes... Like you can kill me but please save my mother...

[@faustinthomson9697]

@@steezleman7845 no matter how many times we explain to these people, they never even try to understand.. They just want likes..

[@NickKinzel]

@@steezleman7845 That by itself would be a good moment, but when batman murders other countless people that also probably love someone it makes it feel cheap and unbelievable.

[@NickKinzel]

@@boringgaming5110 I don't understand. Its ok to go out and kill criminals? If you did that what would that make you? The reason batman doesn't kill people in the Nolan movies is it reminds him of the man who killed his parents. I don't think the batman from the Nolan movies would ever consider killing random criminals. Also, the entire premise of BvS is that Batman is scared of superman even if he has good intentions, because anybody with that amount of power is dangerous. Like he said in the movie "even if there is a 1%... whatever, we must take it as an absolute certainty". Saying superman "maybe is" innocent is irreverent

[@Rhodair]

@@steezleman7845 People joke about the Martha thing because that's how idiotic the character comes across in that moment. It's not like people don't get what the writers intended, but the script fails at executing it. At the end of the day, Batman realizes Superman has the capacity for love, which humanizes him... problem is, he still goes on to show no compassion for actual humans; he's 0 to 100 the moment someone's in his way.

[@stevenbaker107]

Hi Holden, Jen, Matt, Jeremy, Jenna, Glenn and everyone. How are you all doing? I love and care about and appreciate each and every one of you all. Thank you very much for everything

[@alexslusher16]

LOL, for a second, I though you said "I don't care about and appreciate." but then I saw it said "love and care." LOL.

[@asperger3147]

A minion image, give me your human rights 🤲

[@IP_Films01]

What's up Steven!

[@stevenbaker107]

@@IP_Films01 hi Ip, how are you doing? Not much is going on?

[@stevenbaker107]

@@IP_Films01 not much is up my dear sweet amazing kind-hearted loving friend and brother. How are you doing?

[@maxwilliamsen1873]

Love the honest reviews. I love this movie so much but It’s completely okay for some people not to love it, as long as we all can find something enjoyable and find it to be rewatchable then it’s a win for me

[@tarzangrant123]

It’s so odd to me how the brains of Holden, Matt and the rest his little bunch struggle with the MoS and BvS themes, calling them convoluted and such, but somehow can sit through MCU movies and find deep meanings in them? Like it just alludes my understanding! BvS followed MoS because the opening scenes explain: we’re seeing the Superman vs Zod through the eyes of the Metropolis’ citizens who are collateral damage. One of them being Bruce Wayne, who has become a hardened vigilante who has forgotten his sense of justice and now wants to kill Superman because he sees that person as an alien Lex Luthor’s role is the instigator who fuels the fire of Bruce by sending him constant reminders of how Superman killed so many and Bruce let them die. Luther knows who Bruce and Clark are, that’s why it’s so easy for him to play them against each other. I don’t get why that’s so hard to understand? the “Martha” scene has to do more with Bruce snapping out of his murderous rage, finally seeing that this “alien” he’s been seeing Superman as, is more human than he is, since in moment of incoming death, he’s still pleading with Bruce to save a life that is not his own. I just wrote this entire thing just for someone to comment that “oh it’s not that deep”, “dude it’s a bad film plain and simple”, or “Snyder doesn’t know what he’s doing with these characters” replies

[@Lowkenn_Edits]

exactly

[@essentialreactions8694]

I understand the plot, but I hate Snyder’s take on these characters. I’m not taking away from anyone who likes it, but I didn’t care about these characters and couldn’t relate to the choices they were making. Batman is more like the punisher in this film. My favorite Batman and Superman are the Bruce Timm animated series ones.

[@Lowkenn_Edits]

@@essentialreactions8694 yeah but batman's whole motive is justice through fear. and that's exactly what he did even if he pushed it too far because of his past.

[@tarzangrant123]

@@essentialreactions8694 why didn’t you care about them? Did you need to see them in several solo movies just to build a “connection” with them? I felt connected to Batman because the film shows us that he is a battle worn Dark Knight, one who has seen his robin get killed! Bruce now believes justice is suppose to be as brutal and lethal as possible, which is why he kills without thinking twice, and why he’s so keen on killing Superman since he’s just an “alien” in his eyes. The Batman from the animated series you like was built from Tim Burton’s Batman films, and that Batman killed without any explanation or implied reasoning. Snyder shows us many times during the film why Bruce has become the way he is, with Alfred even saying how much he’s changed, so again I don’t get what more of a connection you needed

[@the_ZAMURAI]

They go into marvel movies wanting to enjoy it and go into DCEU films wanting to hate it, simple

[@eyeinsider]

Watching the Extended Edition is watching the best version this movie, so excellent choice. Thanks for the early sneak peek!!

[@dylanocchino4243]

Holden don’t worry about the the last video. Haters will hate my friends and I rather enjoyed watching you cracking jokes and letting loose. Keep up the great work!!

[@Diego_Frommel]

There is a BIG difference between hate and criticism my guy

[@thefilmpunch]

Ultimate Edition is definitely the way to go with this film, very much enjoyed your guys’ reaction!

[@zombierepublican]

Ignoring the killing, Batfleck is by far the best and most accurate comicbook batman. Intimidating, jaded, combat expert, detective work, Dark, the LOOK. Incredible

[@sunnymango1473]

Matt’s DCEU watch: Man of Steel ✅ Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice ✅ Suicide Squad Wonder Woman Justice League Aquaman Shazam! Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of one Harley Quinn) Wonder Woman 1984 Zack Snyder’s Justice League

[@luckyraygun1607]

I wouldn’t even do the 2017 version I would just wait for the Snydercut version and do the one that was supposed to come out instead of that trash

[@sunnymango1473]

@@luckyraygun1607 100% agree

[@CinemancerFilms]

don’t encourage the Josstice league😭😭

[@passarovoador6662]

@@luckyraygun1607 But Josstice League is canon, not Snyder's :*

[@luckyraygun1607]

@@passarovoador6662 it shouldn’t be tbh it’s shit and who knows if the Snyder one is real successful we might get his 2 and 3 dc can do a multiverse anyways with there

[@garyking1986]

Who else was expecting Prime to be dressed up as Batman or Wonder Woman?

[@obliviousdave562]

“I don’t understand why that was the 2nd movie” exactly lmao

[@patrickbateman8041]

the plan was a 5 movies arc bt Zack Snyder and the heroes solo movies man of steel - bvs - JL 1- JL 2 - JL3 [ and the solo movies] maybe if all of those movies were filmed u ll understand why BVS was the second

[@Yono_A1533]

Because WB forced him to do it, he wanted to do man of steel 2

[@obliviousdave562]

@@patrickbateman8041 doesn’t mean they couldn’t of put a couple more superman or Batman movies before. Would of made me actually give one when superman died.

[@obliviousdave562]

@@Yono_A1533 oh really? That would Of been so much better

[@Dagenspear]

@@Yono_A1533 Did the studio force him to kill Superman?

[@sapfire2288]

“Trying to catch up to the Avengers” “Got it, Didn’t work” LOL Matt it is something a lot of people did say when it came out.

[@Xale42]

Holden-“she cut that car in half!” Sephiroth-“aw, that’s cute.”

[@paytez]

Unpopular Opinion: I love this movie

[@grantimusprimeofficial2732]

I agree

[@rikudoubapeck]

It's pretty popular opinion in the DCEU fanbase

[@shouryabharat6571]

Me too

[@EntwistleOx]

Agree

[@vietnameeseguy]

I’m one of the only people that loved the Martha scene. I’m adopted and the way Superman calls out for his human mother name over his own life hits me so hard. And then if someone said my moms first name I would stop in my tracks and memories of her would rush into my head... Also he says Martha bc Clark knows Bruce is Batman so it would’ve been easy to look up that Bruce parents were killed when he was a child and would be able to look up the parents name. And Clark would’ve been able to understand Bruce became Batman bc of his parents murder and sympathies with him for him losing his birth parents and Jonathan

[@wholelottastairway8]

would you say "Save my Mother" or "Save Martha?" Because saying her name instead of him calling her Mom/Mother undercuts the fact that she's his mother (even though adopted) in the first place, since calling a parent by the first name is considered disrespectful and dissociates the idea of a parent/child relationship. Calling her Martha is more alien. Either way, Batman doesn't know who Clark is referring to when saying Martha, so why say it? Because that was Bruce's dad last words? That's not a reason to have him refer to his mother as Martha whatsoever. Maybe if there was a scene of Clark discovering that that was Bruce's dad's last words, then it would fit. But it doesn't. It's just a contrived scene that was horribly thought out.

[@shaneweasl]

@@wholelottastairway8 I’ll never understand why people think he should have said save my mom. Why would anyone think that’s a good idea for him to say that? Why would that make Batman want to stop and listen to him? All that would do is make him think there’s another alien out there he needs to get rid of and would guarantee that he will NEVER LISTEN TO WHAT SUPERMAN IS DESPERATELY TRYING TO TELL HIM! Saying her name implies he’s talking about a human which is something Batman would more likely to listen to and the coincidence of their moms having the same name got Batman to listen even more than superman most likely thought. There is absolutely nothing objectively wrong with or contrived or horribly thought out about the Martha moment and people just don’t think logically about it beyond their perspective of two humans having that interaction. People that think he should have said save my mom need to sit back and actually think for a second if Batman would have wanted to stop and listen to him if he thought superman was telling him there’s another alien out there instead of a human that’s in serious danger. Literally use some actual common sense. Stop thinking like this is a interaction between two humans couse it’s not! It’s a human that’s gone off the deep end and an alien that literally no one except for Lois knows he was raised by a human mother and not his alien mother. If I was in supermans shoes I would have said save (mothers name) 100 percent couse I want him to know in the extremely short time I’d have before he lowers his spear and kills me that a human needs saving and not an alien. The name makes it obvious it’s a human that’s why he said it. I don’t know why something so obviously simple is so hard for people to understand

[@wholelottastairway8]

@@shaneweasl That was outright one of the top things to never be explained in depth that much with no proper structure, just like the outline of this movie/franchise. The idea is that saying "Save Martha" reminds him of his past, clearly shown in the movie directorial wise, which is what people praise of Snyder, is it not? It's Visual storytelling. It doesn't show anything about what you're saying, nor is your justification for saying you don't understand why he shouldn't have said save my mom instead of save Martha, when the whole turning point is Lois coming out of no where saying "that's his mothers name!" when it would have been much more impactful if it was Clark saying that. At least have a scene of Batman asking who Lois was, and also showing he realizes he and she love each other. 2 The fact that Bruce Wayne doesn't know who Superman is just makes it even more stupid and would have been a little more interesting to see then him do all the detective work with the KGB beast. If only they had better writers, BVS would actually be a good movie, hell, a great movie. Defending shitty writing to a great length with a bad argument doesn't look good and doesn't help Studios make better movies, just makes them turn out more mediocre shit to make money

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

@@wholelottastairway8 Exactly! he should have said "save my mom" but idiot Snyder thought "wait a minute, they have the same name? say the name!" lol contrary to what the OP said, saying her name doesn't make him seem close to her.

[@jgreen2015]

@@shaneweasl why would "martha" make batman stop and listen? :/

[@FlorderreyVello]

Kudos for Jeremy understanding the Martha scene. For me a very strong scene.

[@rogue9230]

I hated that scene but now I fully understand Zack Snyders vision for it

[@stevenfriedman2902]

Honestly I like this take on Batman. He's gotten sick of seeing crime come back again and again after he's retired. Now not only is crime rising by itself but now there are "Gods" that are going around destroying buildings without any legal repercussions or responsibility put against them. He's realizing his previous method of not killing doesn't seem to be working and needs to take things a step even further. He's really becoming mentally unstable and I really find that exciting for a character like Batman. I also like the "Save Martha" scene because of the fact it builds on just how unstable he is because of the fact two simple words that started all this can make him turn in am instant. If you've studied mental instability it actually all makes too much sense

[@groovemoustache]

The "You're letting him kill Martha" is also interesting because, although it is not explicitly told in the movie, it is shown that Bruce Wayne has self-doubt about his new brutal methods, first it's hammered-in by Alfred telling him he's going too far but secondly it's shown through his dream: blood gushing out his mother's grave while a giant bat destroys and emerges from it. He snaps back from trying to kill Superman when he hears "you're letting him kill Martha" because it connects so well with everything that has been happening to Bruce: he is letting the Bat kill the ideologies that the death of his mother represents, he his letting him (the Bat) kill Martha (his sense of justice).

[@chand911]

You can type as long a paragraph as you'd like, you still don't understand the character of Batman.

[@stevenfriedman2902]

@@chand911 You realize there are different iterations of Batman in the comics, right? If not then let me explain. The DC comics have an infinite multiverse and in the comics they show a small percentage of what could happen based on circumstances. There has been some where he even gets Superman's powers and becomes corrupt by them and the Justice League has to fight him to have him get rid of those powers. There's another comic where he becomes the god of knowledge and makes Earth a totalitarian state and he's the dictator of it all. I consider this movie to be one of the many alternate universes where he begins to stray from his original morals which isn't that farfetch considering what the comics have him doing at times

[@arthand7672]

I think it's a great arc for 2/3rds of the movie. I wish it didn't get undone by two words and a flashback

[@Tyler_W]

There's a bit more subtext to the Martha moment. It's not that their mothers have the same names, not in itself anyway. That's just the catalyst that triggered his epiphany. The key to understanding that scene is to look at the beginning intro for Batman. The epiphany is that what Alfred accused of him was correct. He was becoming the very thing he hated. What was he about to do? He was about to murder someone and cause the death of his inmocent mother, and instead of begging for his own life, all Superman cares about is for his mom to be okay, just like what happened to Bruce as a child. He saves Martha because it's a kijd of chance at redemption. He couldn't save his own mother when he was weak and defenseless, but now that he isn't, perhaps he can save someone else's. In a way, it shakes him back to reality, shows him how far he had fallen, and now he wants to redeem himself and his mission statelent, to protect the innocent. The reason this triggers him is because that's what has triggered him throughout the whole movie, failing to save innocent people from dying because his actions or inaction. The name Martha was just the connection that enabled him to empathize amd realize what he was doing was wrong. The Twin Perfect channel has a great breaksown of Batman and Superman's characters in these two movies.

[@Eidlones]

"This thing's been alive for 3 min. We have enough intel to authorize a nuclear strike."

[@ikoandreas5085]

BVs logic

[@rohanasuthkar9543]

*Cough *Avengers. Nuke New York City

[@Eidlones]

@@rohanasuthkar9543 A fight that had been going on for awhile, was made by shadowy leaders (later revealed to be Hydra), and which the heros actively fought against because it was a bad idea.

[@utefanivan]

I love this movie. So much. The entire point of the movie is character growth and change. Batman has gone from morale vigilante to almost an anti hero and then becoming better again after the Superman fight. Idk. I love it.

[@xvor_tex8577]

I totally agree

[@ng5574]

Definitely expecting a “my friend watches Snyder cut” 😎

[@RS-qc4tg]

Is Matt gonna finish WandaVision? I’m really curious to see his thoughts on the big Bi-Gon Jim moments in the last two episodes.

[@julianrodriguez6465]

Yeah they said they were gonna put that on hold since they have scheduling conflicts now and they want to catch up on the DCEU before the Snyder cut comes out so they can watch that together. I’m assuming after that they will resume WandaVision

[@andrewe2057]

Same. I'm way more interested in seeing them finish WandaVision than I am seeing them finish the DCEU

[@qsmusic8994]

well y'all can watch other content creators or just be patient. I like them reacting different things not just marvel all the Time.

[@RS-qc4tg]

@@qsmusic8994 Yeah, I agree. I’m just asking if they still will react to WandaVision.

[@qsmusic8994]

@@RS-qc4tg oh of course they will he said they still have 6 and up left right?

[@randall-king]

I respect Holden for standing by his criticisms of Man of Steel while still apologizing for his over the top commentary. Very level headed.

[@kal-zor-el5801]

One of the best comic book movies ever made. I don't know why some don't like it.

[@austinhowser7838]

Because it’s shit.

[@Pharaohcious]

I like the take on him hearing "Martha" and making that human connection with Superman having a Mom. I also like to remember that Batman has been a certain level of a psych case since he saw his parents murdered. The name triggered him. Just look at Him and Joker's "relationship". Trying to fit The Return of The Dark knight and Doomsday in one movie was a tough Yes...Hans Zimmer is a genius

[@adityan3208]

But he already says to supes " I bet your parents taught you you mean something" so batman knows he has human parents. So that scene still feels dumb to me

[@joshendley]

The whole Martha scene is a rare scene where it’s psychologically realistic but falls flat in execution

[@somedudeontwitterstalkedme3829]

it was neither that is why it failed. It's the very definition of the term "Macguffin", you would have been better off, given the old dude in the building the name Jonathan. And Had Superman as Batman was driving the krypton spear through him slowly to make Superman suffer for all the lives he took in Batman's eyes, Superman then hallucinates cries as he realizes he has failed..... and says "I am sorry I failed you... Jonathan Kent, my Earth father. Now both of them are dealing with not only personal lost, but more recent death and the fact that neither one of them could do anything to save a mentor, who was not their father, but who took on the role, when their real father was no more. That is psychology. the problem with Martha is that Superman never showed, that he cared for his Martha. He let her husband die, he left right after he let him die, to take care of everything on here own (even the fact her adopted son with superpowers who could easily save him, let my husband die, to keep a secret?) Superman brought people over to destroy his childhood home and his hometown, he was a crappy son to his Martha and Batman, he treats women like shit... so, does anyone really believe Batman loves his mommy?

[@tadeocg780]

Couldnt have said it better myself

[@jacobtrimble4329]

A great way to put it.

[@elmichellangelo]

Bro they can't just spoon feed to you the thoughts of batman. You have to use you brain sometime to Know what they are filling.

[@haridaspalleeri6765]

@@elmichellangelo if the majority of people didnt get it, it's not their fault

[@hollyhuntley9350]

"I need a horse" - Holden Hardman 2021

[@julianbalenzano6432]

Is it embarrassing that the first thing that came to mind was Marvels Thor?

[@chaitanyareddy781]

When's the new video coming out?

[@HITMO1408]

Appreciate it that you guys watched it. there are fair amount of arguments that can be made about this film. on that note, you do realize that if superman goes to fight you with intention of killing you, you are dead before you can see him. he has to be restrained. supe only commits half way in.

[@soloRanger537]

I appreciate what you said at the beginning, and thought you took the feedback well. I love to hear everyone's thoughts on the movies, and dont mind comments throughout, but I definitely thought that there was too much talking during emotional/important scenes. Thank you for responding to the community, and handling it well. I also understand that you can do whatever you want on your channel, but listening to feedback means a lot to your supporters.

[@SpiderBatFan]

Yeah that’s 100% what I think on the matter

[@ledestroyer2241]

Jen and Matt: I don’t know what’s going on, I don’t know where I am, all I know, is I must watch.

[@22geb]

man i remember when holden was posting like 4x a week. those was the good days

[@bluestratos1901]

Till just now watching this I never noticed the omega symbol scorched into the earth during the apocalyptic future scene. Man I love this movie.

[@Muddasir11]

Jen: I don’t understand the concept of Good superheroes fighting each other . . . . . . Captain America Civil War :

[@himu6948]

that wasn't a fight to death... 😑😑but this was... 😑

[@scottelement]

She hasn’t gotten that far in the MCU yet.

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

you and the other 48 other geeks are stupid cause she has not seen it

[@Maikigai]

The Martha scene makes perfect sense when you consider that Brice realizes he’s about to kill someone that has a mother and a is “more human” than he is. Also, it wasn’t a natural buildup between them. Bruce and Clark were both being pushed to fight each other from the beginning by Lex. Jeremy gets it! :D

[@ElegantWaster]

The solution there to me would be asking Batman to save his mother instead. Still triggers Batman's trauma, but doesn't rely on a coincidence of both characters mothers having the same name. What if in the world, Martha Kent was called Mary? Does Batman kill Superman?

[@americasteam2112]

Batman talked about Superman’s parents before the Martha scene so he knew Superman was raised with human parents. This line defeats the meaning of the scene.

[@ElegantWaster]

@@americasteam2112 haven't seen it in a while and couldn't recall that, but then it makes the whole reason of Batman not killing Superman be just because his mother had the same name? Like Holden said, what if one of the mercenaries he kills after mothers name is Martha? It's just a really weird choice.

[@Maikigai]

@@ElegantWaster I think he chose to use her name because I don’t think he knew of Bruce knew he was Clark Kent. “Save my mother!” Doesn’t work if he doesn’t know who that even is. There are multiple levels to this, too. “Martha” sparked an emotional response (PTSD?) in Bruce, so there’s that, then there’s the connection that he is more “human” than alien and then the idea that Clark has to choose his last (dying) words very specifically to ensure that even if Bruce kills him, he can at least take “Martha” and figure it who she is to save her, but Clark probably also used that to beg for his life, “You’re letting them kill Martha!” Akin to saying, “You’re making a mistake!” Sure, there may have been several other ways to have dealt with the situation, but I love how it was done, personally, and I think it works fine.

[@Maikigai]

@@americasteam2112 “Your parents” doesn’t necessarily refer to his earth parents. He could have meant his Kryotonian parents. Either way, it still works fine.

[@tjwilkinson2034]

5 days? 5 days Holden?! Give us the next "my girlfriend watches" video! I'm dyin over here.

[@urlovinphantom943]

Sameeee!

[@Connorcollects94]

Awesome episode Holden. Great takes from everyone, such a squad. I was impressed with how attentive Matt was too. Good job paying attention all the way through and solid input Matt! I've actually never seen this movie but perfect timing as I will be watching the Snyder cut when it drops. Thanks for the content!

[@shitass6963]

The guy that talked to Bruce after his vision was the flash from the future that Bruce dreamed about. He was warning Bruce about superman.

[@amon__7187]

He knows. He just didn't say because he didn't want to spoil it for Matt and Jen

[@SpiderBatFan]

Just want to say thanks to you Holden, for addressing how the last reaction turned out in some areas, most people would just ignore the reception you got so I really appreciate that. Just to say, obviously don’t mind commentary and jokes at some points, just not joking tons and tons of times, thanks again for addressing it

[@minimann15]

yes. My biggest critique about that was he was joking during really important scenes and it took Matt and Jenna out of the movie a little bit

[@joshuagenz5590]

I've realized that when Holden is thinking of what to say, or when he is nervous he touches his mouth/beard region.

[@itstin1969]

Just wait till zack snyders justice league.dont watch the "other one"

[@twisted7202]

The nightmare scene is gonna be expanded upon in Zack Snyder’s Justice League

[@anitabonghit7606]

Gonna be dope

[@jgreen2015]

@@anitabonghit7606 lol! Good one

[@j_islam7869]

@@jgreen2015 yeah, it was a good one, can't wait for it.

[@jokeisajokelol9018]

@@j_islam7869 how’d u find it

[@j_islam7869]

@@jokeisajokelol9018 exciting, amazing, fun and overall interesting, the knightmare scene did want me wanting more from the Zack Snyder's vision. I would totally recommend it if you haven't watched it

[@michaelsmith7094]

I think Jeremy was so right. I think the issue with comic book fans in general is that everyone is so focused on one version or THEIR version of characters. So when they see a Batman who comes from a darker string in the comics and is not the Batman we’ve seen before, killing is okay. The character is still coming from the comics and it’s okay if you say “well I prefer him not to kill”, but don’t say “I don’t like the movie because of that”. Keep it at the movie, stop focusing so much on your idealistic or perfect character that’s your favorite and just focus on the version of the character that’s in front of you. There’s been TOO many Batman’s who are all very similar. I like the harsh and intense Batman. A nice change.

[@MandoEmmm]

I think this is a fake argument, I don't remember people bashing the movie for Batman being a killer. If anything, I remember everyone agreeing that Batman was the best thing about this movie... Frank Miller's Batman is one of the most beloved for a reason.

[@CyberNorth-fc6wi]

@@MandoEmmm are you serious? That’s literally one of the main criticisms people throw at this movie.

[@XavierSJ]

@@MandoEmmm idk, when this movie came out everyone came out bashing the 'batman kills' part. Saying this isnt batman, this batman isnt comic book accurate. look at Hi-Tops films video on it. (And read the comments) Or anyone really who reviews it at the time. (Tho Hi-Top kinda changed a bit from his original opinion) people seem to not read enough comics to understand that this isnt the mainstream batman, but the Frank Miller version

[@marcopolov673]

For as long as this movie is(extended), there’s so little time dedicated to character development. Most of these DCEU movies and definitely all the Snyder ones remind me of the superhero movies of the late 90’s and early 2000’s. A lot of half naked ideas of depth and themes if there’s any at all, just a bunch of spectacle and action.

[@MandoEmmm]

@@XavierSJ I saw Chris Stuckman's review and I remember batman being something everyone agreed was awesome

[@thefenerbahcesk4156]

Logically this movie isn't perfect, but the music, shots, and scenes are amazing. BvS is one of my favorite films of all time.

[@markwebster7435]

Bruce’s return to being good so to speak and to not kill, comes because of superman’s sacrifice. I failed him life, I won’t fail him in death.

[@baron3604]

Jeremy be lookin like a discount Gambit

[@renujankanagaratnam3912]

I did not like the heroes vs heroes ....can’t wait for Jen to watch Captain America Civil War! 😂😂😂

[@EmbassyNerdcore]

Yeah but imagine if Civil War came out before Avengers, like if it went Iron Man, Captain America First Avenger, Civil War, Thor, Avengers. That's what the DCEU felt like.

[@antonioordonez494]

@@EmbassyNerdcore more like Iron Man, Civil War, Thor, Avengers and no captain America movie.

[@Neyodip]

@@EmbassyNerdcore that don’t make sense it’s Similar but it doesn’t work like that. The dceu works like that because it makes sense look at bvs and mos. bvs opening was Superman and Zod fighting in the city and that gave a reason for Bruce to hate him. In (Zack Snyder’s justice league coming this Thursday) it opens up with bvs Superman’s death and how that wakes up the mother boxes and causes darkseid to send Steppenwolf to earth. So the mcu would not make sense in that order because of Continuity.

[@liamerty3523]

a lot of people seem stuck on nolan's heroic view of batman with his code of honor and all, but they also forget that you either die a hero or live long enough to be the villain. And then I have the impression that some expected an epic and fun movie, of course seeing two heroes confront each other is dramatic and unpleasant to watch

[@jayfrancelf]

Again, guys...its not about the fact that Holden doesnt like the DC stuff as much as he likes the Marvel stuff. We were unhappy because we felt like his comments were coloring Matt's first viewing of it.

[@UKpowerunleashed]

Yeah... I agree. IDK how else to phrase it. He never did that in Marvel ones. But suddenly here, he was planting views and laughing at serious points while watching... I was like, really?

[@UKpowerunleashed]

Are people these days deliberately choosing to ignore the things that are right infront of their eyes just to stay in the majority?

[@silverfoxjxt1532]

Adding onto Jeremy he didn’t stop because their moms had the same name he stopped because “God” literally asked his killer with possibly his final moments to save his mom which humanizes him and snaps batman out of his kill rage, when Batman was a kid he couldn’t save his parents but now he has the chance to redeem himself and listen to logic (and yes I did watch the everything great with Batman v Superman)

[@joesladden9914]

Adding to this, it explains why he appears so angry and ruthless in the Warehouse scene. He finally has the opportunity to save the mother that he couldn’t when he was a child, and nothing was going to stop him.

[@ISavant]

you can polish a turd all you like, it doesn't make it any less a garbage justification.

[@silverfoxjxt1532]

@@ISavant no I’m not saying the movie is great, it’s still bad with the pacing and how they tried to cram things in it. I’m just explaining a scene that’s misunderstood

[@johnelmartagbago3764]

But he did stop when he heard the name "Martha", Clark only ask him later when Lois explained that she's Clark's mom. And Bruce literally is the Greatest Detective in DC, and he didnt even know the basic info on Clark? Really? Bruce in the earlier scene even acknowledged Clark has parents when they were fighting. It's all done so poorly.

[@joesladden9914]

@@johnelmartagbago3764 it’s more that Batman is completely clouded thinking superman is this ultimate evil and needs to be destroyed. Seeing him in his weakest moment not asking for his own life to be spared, but instead that of his mother, only served to remind him of his own childhood and the helplessness he felt when his mother died.

[@RubenDReyna]

I was in the monority who believes this movie is the best superhero movie of all time (like, EXTREME minority lol). Having said that, I loved the movie, but it was WAY too convoluted. I understood Zack's vision for this movie the first time I watched it, and the Martha scene hit the spot for me. It gave Superman his humanity back in the eyes of Batman, and I felt that. He snapped out of his blind rage. I was like, wow, that was SO deep. And people were like, "ooh! Ooh! They have the same name! Batman likes Supes now! Bad script!" Lol. But hey, all of the opinions you guys shared were right on point! Thank you for showing some sympathy for the likes of me xD

[@Ilovegirls2486]

I'm with you!!!!

[@kreaturekars]

Rather than agree or disagree, I will share my experience with this film. Went in very skeptical and was not a fan of bats vs supes, but the movie was great, I actually loved it, which was a 180 to how I felt going in. Was glad to see a different Batman a more worn away about life one, and even the "Martha" scene was not an issue, I always saw it that finally he saw that superman was not just an invincible enemy he could put his anger through but someone who was also human. And it also gave him, Batman a second chance to save Martha, his mother, finally saw the good in superman and maybe saw him as a brother perhaps. Superman also had not chosen to be evil, Batman projected that onto him and realised that, the other villains he kills choose to be evil though. Wonder woman's intro was crazy good and got me pumped for her film 😉 Thanks guys for a great reaction, even if it does not resonate with you like it did with me

[@utefanivan]

It’s not because their moms had the same name. It’s poorly written but the entire point is Batman seeing Superman’s humanity. Realizing he’s an ally.

[@johnnyskinwalker4095]

should have said "save my mom"

[@jimmy2k4o]

@Ricardo Alonso Rojas wait till we see your script.

[@swanpride]

@@jimmy2k4o What for? Nobody needs to proof that the concept of two heroes fighting against each other, because it has been done better in the past (and in the very same year this movie was released). Hell, DC did it better in their animated movies.

[@Dagenspear]

I think that's connected to their moms having the same name.

[@altEFG]

@@johnnyskinwalker4095 Save the mother of an alien? How? Fly to Krypton? Batman doesn't know he has a human family on Earth

[@benjitime7563]

When Holden said I need a horse and looked at Jen 😂 thats the kind of content I come here for lol , never change Holden. Im a bit sad you wont be doing Wonder Woman and Aquaman before Snyder cut, i think it would give the group a better feel for it and enjoy the new Justice League more. Everything else is fine skipping for later, first WW and Aquaman were best of the bunch.

[@RS-qc4tg]

Yes, especially Wonder Woman. Aquaman technically takes place after it though so they can watch that later.

[@ZarathrustaTate]

aquaman is fun i guess, but it’s super tacky.

[@ronin4785]

But not ww84 that movie is no good

[@markmckeever3237]

I'm offended & triggered that Holden DIDN'T joke enough through this video. Ha

[@JaspasOnline]

Nahhhhh how dare heeee😤😤😤

[@vampirethespiderbatgod9740]

Mocking the DCEU fans, lol.

[@nickgardner8594]

43:46 when the dog barked and Holden gave that look. I died😂

[@user-qz9yx3dh4i]

My take on what snap him out when he said Martha was , as a kid Batman couldn’t save his Martha, so this was like Bruce Wayne closure on his guilt not being able to save his mom , just my take

[@rikudoubapeck]

My take as well. I'll add another layer Clark deliberately phrased it so it could resonate with Bruce in a desperate attempt to get Bruce to listen.

[@SandShark350]

I agree, Batman is not exactly emotionally stable and is clearly still traumatized by his hearing his mother's name uttered and such an emotional state cause him to falter. And then he realized this isn't just some alien, he's got a human mother too and he's begging to save her life, not his own. And like Bruce said, most men are good, Batman is good at his core, he's just gotten beat down for 25 years and obviously completely jaded.

[@raunak1147]

Hey, here's what i have to say about batman killing. This movie is about why batman SHOULDN'T kill, the broken guy that he is at the start had changed by the end of the movie, he went from saying; Nothing I did, other than killing superman will matter, criminals are like weeds, no one stays good; To "men are good" as matt pointed out by the end, his faith in humanity had been restored after seeing superman's sacrifice. And to me, that's what superman is about; At the end of the day, superman gave hope to the most hopeless character aka batman. I think there were two moments that batman realized he fucked up. One was the martha scene, it basically told batman that he had become what he set out to fight, he has essentially become that same person who killed 'his martha', and also the fact that superman had a mother too, and at that moment superman, even though being alien, was more human that bruce was. The second one is obviously when superman dies, which is the final push that batman needed; If you've seen the snyder cut batman teaser, you see superman pulling batman out of a dark tunnel into the light, which is essentially what BvS was, batman wasn't a hero in this movie, he was a villain. That's why i didn't mind him killing, the movie was about why he shouldn't kill

[@SpiderBatFan]

THIS, exactly THIS !

[@SpiderGav2099]

This would make sense if the writers and director thought this, I'm more sure they just had him kill cuz why not...

[@raunak1147]

@@SpiderGav2099 not true at all. Watch zack snyder's watch party of BvS If you don't want to watch the whole thing, watch the Martha scene atleast. Tbis is how they intended for it to be interpreted(or close to it, this is how I see it)

[@SpiderBatFan]

Gavin Reyes no Zack and Chris (the writer) did think about this, they both worked very closely when developing the movie. Just like they did with Justice League

[@eliasndeleon]

fr

[@Melanie-vl1fz]

The rule is you can make jokes during MCU movies but only brood during DC ones 😁

[@putalover4519]

That's dumb. It's fun making jokes against these shitty movies.

[@championsgaming1]

@@putalover4519 its a joke that dceu is dark and broody lmfao

[@putalover4519]

@@championsgaming1 I personally thought it was a comedic parody of DC. Remember when Batman became a serial killer and Superman threw Zod at a public building because he threatened his mommy and Batman cried feeling bad he became a villian at the Martha scene and then went back to doing the same thing. Comedy gold.

[@aje8790]

When I watch these DC movies I think,”aren’t movies supposed to be fun?” Shazam and Aqua Man don’t count

[@dharshanramaprabhu8679]

@@aje8790 hmm u havent read watchmen or most dc stuff or seen many movies then to think all movies are supposed to be lighthearted lol

[@uPhillips]

"And I found myself viewing Batman as a villain"... I mean yeah, that's the whole point of the movie! If you really think about it, when Bruce said: "how many good guys are left, how many stayed that way?" he was pretty much (without noticing) talking about himself.

[@richardmuthamia8063]

That guy in the hat knows what the movie is about. Him killing as he's going to save mother though, redemption doesn't happen all at once

[@seanoconnor8178]

It’s more so like this with the Martha Scene and why it changed him so quickly, his whole origin is tied to the death of his parents, and witnessing something that could happen like that again just with Superman was what gave him the change of heart. If you experience a tragedy, you wouldn’t want anyone else to experience that tragedy either. That tragedy was further recognized when they ended up sharing the same mothers name. In which case it sortve reminded him of his first days as Batman and all he’s been fighting for despite the loss. Also zach Snyder recently did an interview talking about how he had and idea to do a Batman stand alone film before this base don the death of Robin and that would explain his shift from vigilantee to killer. Besides, in my own personal opinion it’s best when the hero kills the bad guy in the end.

[@justinlorence8151]

I mean it still doesn't make a lot of sense. Batman's mentality has been if there is a 1% percent chance he could be a threat we have to take it as an absolute certainty. If the connection over their mother's had been built up throughout the whole movie and the save Martha scene was the turning point i would have bought it. Instead Batman goes through his entire character arc in roughly 30seconds. That's the problem, the arc isn't a problem, it's the time it takes to happen. I agree with the killer Batman thing though, Zach did a great job setting up the character and why he is ok with murdering criminals even without the solo movie.

[@angellrodriguezmontes8556]

@@justinlorence8151 Agree, the problem its not the scene but the set up. There would be no need for an explanation or debate if the setup was well done. This would’ve held up if there had been more time dedicated to Batman’s grief instead of just sprinkling a few clues here and there about his past.

[@justinlorence8151]

@@angellrodriguezmontes8556 Not even hints to his grief. I get that he was sad about his mom. It's that the grief for his mom was never shown to be so powerful that it would literally make him change his philosophy about Superman and how powerful he is. Again, if there's a 1% chance he could turn on us we need to take it as an absolute certainty. Why does humanizing Superman remove that 1% chance/ Why does that no longer matter to him.

[@rafaelj8808]

Who cares if you talk during a movie or not. It isn't a big deal idk why people are complaining about it.

[@jm329]

Because then they will miss things because they are distracted.

[@blockwriters5728]

Talking through a movie is super rude. It's why I never do premiere night / week for a film. The self-centered grunts all come out. I either wait until the knuckle draggers disperse, or I go on very inopportune and inconvenient viewing times & dates for the herd, so as to minimize them ruining the viewing experience for the rest of us with manners and home training.

[@44r0n-9]

Personally I absolutely hate it when someone talks next to me while we're watching a movie. But if they're fine with it I couldn't care less

[@rafaelj8808]

@@blockwriters5728 yes i understand that, i am also like that but i mean during this video. He is a KZbinr that is reacting to stuff with his friends, ofc he is going to talk.

[@blockwriters5728]

@@rafaelj8808 I like it better when the dialogues takes place before or after. They did a better job of that on this one. I watch moreso for the visual reaction during the viewing then their auditory queues. I think youtubers who do reaction videos that way have the best approach.

[@bigboychris446]

“Superheroes fighting each other?” Boy her mind will be blown by the MCU later on lol

[@ayushman3359]

I can legit bet she would not even mention it.