Homosexuality, Marriage, and Islam

Excerpt from a Q&A session: Dr. Khaled Abou El Fadl discusses the issue of homosexual unions between Muslims, looking at the textual evidence, the right to a "habitat" for all humans, and the place of sexuality in society.
Full Q&A session link: • Usuli Institute: Young...
For more, visit www.usuli.org
Also listen to a recent conversation between Dr. Abou El Fadl and Momodou Taal on the podcast "The Malcolm Effect," where Dr. Abou El Fadl discusses the Qur'anic verses on the people of Lut in reference to the topic of homosexuality. Available here:
Spotify:
open.spotify.com/episode/3fyw....
Apple Podcasts:
podcasts.apple.com/podca.../p....
Google Podcasts:
podcasts.google.com/.../a3Vsd....
Player FM:
player.fm/.../ep-80-islam-mus....

[@TheUsuliInstitute]

Also listen to a recent conversation between Dr. Abou El Fadl and Momodou Taal on the podcast "The Malcolm Effect," where Dr. Abou El Fadl discusses the Qur'anic verses on the people of Lut in reference to the topic of homosexuality. Available here: Spotify: open.spotify.com/episode/3fywFNE85QL1sbuqd2klw8... Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/podca.../podcast//id1532417345... Google Podcasts: podcasts.google.com/.../a3VsdHVyYWwucG9kYmVhbi5jb... Player FM: player.fm/.../ep-80-islam-muslims-modernity...

[@noorahamid3376]

Why is this channel not more popular...it's the only muslim channel that actually adds something important and dives into the depths of the significance of belief in God.

[@konstantinosskordos8645]

facts

[@yussepig6629]

At least this is a rare example of a religious scholar who tries to empathise and show good heart. Most are rigid and totally lacking in empathy and think too highly of themselves. His thoughts are interesting.

[@kscherk]

I ended up watching this, since I couldn’t find the Usuli khutbah for today. I pray the Sheikh and his family are healthy and well. I agree with most of this, especially the part about actually having calm, thoughtful dialogue around the issue. I have no patience for the melt downs and dogma on all sides. What I’m wrestling with is the “fetish” argument. I even looked up the definition of a (sexual) fetish, and homosexual desire does not seem to fit it (“fixation on/deriving pleasure from something other than the ‘sexual organs’”). Also, as a Western convert to Islam, I started thinking, what’s inherently wrong with a so-called “fetish” (although I would argue skin should be considered a sexual organ, or at least sensual)? Are fetishes considered haram? I feel like in my mind, in Western culture, the distinction we have made between acceptable, healthy, sexuality is that you act on sexual desire only when it is transparent and mutually consenting. The problem with necrophilia or desiring children or only being satisfied by raping are issues of consent, not merely that they are “deviant.” Even apparently “violent” sex can be mutually consented to, although it seems to be treading on thin ice, but there’s also a fine line between “violence” and passion, with control usually at the root of true violence. So I think that argument does need a lot more discussion. The other side of the argument which was interesting to me was the discussion of sakina. Since I left my husband, I’ve really been savoring living alone and experiencing much more Sakina. According to Islam, is marriage and cohabitation necessary for sakina? That’s not my understanding.

[@ws7641]

Really you influenced my way of thinking with your wise and compassionate words.... God bless you.

[@kscherk]

Also want to highlight the importance of recognizing that homosexuality is not a “disease”. This is in line with current state-of-the-art of psychological science. However, it is important also to note that some of the “desires” and behaviors mentioned here as “fetishes” such as necrophelia are indeed classified as pathological within the DSM. So given that homosexuality has historically been, and I know for a fact, continues to be viewed as such by many Muslim MDs practicing in the U.S., we have to be extremely careful in how we talk about it without contradicting ourselves. As with other Usuli discussions of mental health, we understand that the Sheikh is humbly contributing to the conversation and stimulating discussion, but we should not ignore the experts, being sure to include Muslim psychologists, especially those who are familiar with Frantz Fanon’s contributions.

[@AM-kq6tv]

Very interesting and engaging conversation. However, I think there is an issue with what you say about being private in your sexuality to a certain extent; it’s not a matter of showing overt sex but rather about how you incorporate yourself into the community/Ummah. Example: Let’s say you go to a mosque and celebrating Eid with the community. Let’s say you introduce yourself and you introduce your spouse and you are gay/lesbian (and introduce your spouse whether on purpose or accidentally), unfortunately, from what I have seen, a lot of the ummah would shun you whereas if your partner was introduced and of the opposite sex, no one there would bat an eyelash. Why? Because unfortunately, most associate gay spousal relationships as solely sexual in nature rather than the one you care about and can feel intimate with in non sexual ways as well as sexual ways, like most of the ummah associates with only heterosexual relations. So naturally, LGBT Muslims (and those that care about those LGBT Muslims including myself as a revert) feel hesitant about going to most mosques because this and other reasons.

[@idek3968]

As a queer Muslim, this really resonated with me - thank you for commenting

[@bookstudies8984]

Spousal relationships will always be seen as sexual; it is what typically differs itself from friendships (which can be very close and intimate too). To expect people not to assume that is sexuality involved in a spousal relationship is I think very problematic, it would lead to all sorts of confusion even among straight people. To engage in sex with the same sex is seen as a sin, so to introduce someone to your same-sex spouse contains an implicit pride for engaging in homosexual sex. This is why people may be uncomfortable, as they don't want to be seen approving homosexual sex (although they may love both of you as people in general). I imagine you may feel very negative regarding my comments, just know I have no ill-will towards you or the LGBT community. I find many of you be delightful and lovely people. You just didn't get much replies to this comment so I thought to chime in my opinion

[@greenlobster9171]

What...?? I always thought that a more absurd justification for same sex marriage cease to exist but I was wrong...! I gotta give it to you 👏

[@Some_Deist]

@@greenlobster9171 You most likely didn’t understand the comment and now had to write something hateful because it hurts your ego so your wrote that bs.

[@batman-sr2px]

That's because it would be haram to bring an lgbt partner to the masjid a holy place where it's condemned just like bringing the opposite sex if they are your girlfriend. They wouldn't have a problem if you say you had that desire. If anything you were able to control it they would be proud of your Iman.

[@iGong]

Mutuality/consensuality is another factor to take into account...

[@zaynab99]

May god always protect my sheikh

[@aesseliss7098]

stay blessed dear

[@thikr11]

As salam alakioum. Im assuming i missed it and wonder if someone can clarify. I understand you are saying its a private matter. What i havent gained is clarification as to whether the act of sex , is it haram or not. I find that the 4 mathabs have declared it a major sin, nit in thought but in action and that outwardly approving of said act because its haram then you are out of the fold of Islam. InshAllah i can be hrlped in understanding this. It really keeps me from fully engaging in Islam rather than a bystander. Jazakhallah khair Shaykh may you and your family be blessed.

[@bookstudies8984]

I'm just a random person, but I believe Khaled does definitely see the act as haram. He is speaking in more practical cases in terms of people who engage in homosexuality from non-Islamic cultures; people who commit it regardless whether it is haram or not. He seems be focused on how to best approach/manage these complex situations as rightly as possible; with mercy and compassion at the forefront rather than rigid discipline. The truth is we all sin, and homosexual sex is just one variety of it. If we were to punish everyone for sinning, we would all go to hell. So we continue striving to walk through life and repenting as we fall. Just because we sin though, doesn't mean we should absolve the ideal of virtue. We should be striving towards it even as we sin, and so it is sensible to still classify acts as haram even if many people do it. I am not perfect and am always committing sin, but knowing it is wrong helps me greatly in the long term than if I were to act if it was okay simply because I am compulsed to it. Peace and blessings to you!

[@k2411871]

Salaam Kate, having sex outside of marriage does not make a murtad (regardless of who)... What he is saying unless you repent you'll have to answer for the deed on judgment day. If however, you goto Islamic Scholars who are gay (which there are a few) you might get a different answer. I personally take the view, loving and being romantic with someone of your own gender is okay but having sex is not, but if they do, they should repent. Yeah, it's hard... and no straight person would understand how hard it is, but unfortunately, that's their test.

[@rakrak-gp5em]

this made me tear up i’ve been looking for so long to someone welling to talk about this. thank you 🤍

[@kscherk]

Also waiting for the discussion of gender and gender identity. Looking forward to a nuanced one.

[@firaasdilmoon6310]

To be honest all I want is to convert to islam and marry my long distance bf from Kuwait and live happily ever after starting a family, but I guess state-marriage is all I can get at the moment

[@Count_Bleck]

Follow your heart but take your head with you, God willing, the two of you will be together. Allah always brings lovers together ❤️

[@lunarsensitive1]

@@Count_Bleck Allah does not always bring lovers together. If He did, no one would be sad.

[@mallorystewart6125]

His position from an Islamic point of view is not clear to me.

[@mks9235]

CocaCola and CocaCola!

[@rabeafaraj1930]

It’s so cute. Every video he has Coke Zero.

[@qoobsmcdoobs1]

We have to be careful that we don't bend our values to suit the current social climate that legitimizes every human desire as long as it's "consensual." Any act that brings humans pleasure will be repeated but that doesn't mean we should encourage it. There are people who are obese and they have food addictions and they also say they "can't help it" and that they've tried therapy and it didn't change anything for them, so now we have to succumb to their weakness around food and say it's healthy to overeat and indulge in high fat foods because it hurts their feelings if we tell them it's wrong and unhealthy to overeat and be sedentary?

[@ArchyP]

What a terrible example this was. And very judgemental of people with this kind of addiction

[@qoobsmcdoobs1]

How can homosexuals accept co-habitation without exercising their sexual desires on each other? It would be basically like 2 friends living together, but no one calls 2 friends of same gender living together gay or lesbian because there is no sexual element to their relationship. Why can't homosexuals live with their own families/parents? why must they cohabitate with a same sex partner? They don't have to live alone.

[@batman-sr2px]

They can live with their own family or parents. No one is stopping them. Cohabitation would be an option for those it's not enough.

[@DarioHaruni]

I've worked with LGBT people and I can tell that for sure sexuality is not black and white. And actually the brain is so neuro-plastic that it can teach itself new patterns out of which it derives pleasure. I believe there's an inherent possibility of being bisexual, and people then take a primary sexuality (straight or gay) based on the way their life goes. If a homosexual person doesn't want to be refrained by the idea that only the same sex will attract them, I think they can achieve that. It is only through liberal propaganda pushed since childhood that people get this fixed idea that they're born with a sexual orientation.