HONG10 (Korea) vs ISSEI (Japan) | R16 Korea 2012 World Finals Bboy solo | Quarter Final

[@ZYPaindition]

I like how both are beast at halos, but Issei is really dominating winning r16 twice and winning seven to smoke at IBE 2013 not to only consider he is only 16. Props to Hong 10 too, the ground power legend.

[@oribabiro]

What you guys don't understand is that musicality doesn't contrast with powermoves at all. And "Dynamics" in this battle pretty much means power. Issei had musicality in his powermoves.

[@MagalhaeszGusta]

Hong 10 ,mesmo perdendo, continua sendo foda !!

[@readthispleaseify]

2 on hong 10s first set? wtf?

[@zackjames09]

i really like the system, im sure in the future it will still improves and develops. Bboying is becoming more like a sport. Maybe one day Olympics will have bboy competitions :)

[@dannzzie]

I beg to differ, Hong 10 is totally in the flow of the music, what i see is his footwork and groundwork is sync with the music in the 1st round , his footwork kept "the same tempo as the music" ; If you were saying hes NOT on beat in the second round, then please tune up your speaker's volume, and listen to the bongo beat behind the music. I respect judge's decision, but I don't think musicality cause Hong 10 lose. Peace.

[@LinLinIsMyFeyt]

wow! love to see hong10 in the cypher once again. i thought it will take like, 2 years again. say, i don't know how this was judged but, hong10 killed the beat on 1:08 and fyi judges, 1:17 aint no crush. solid round 1 for hong10 imo. i think he did enough to win. no props to issei though. i just love watching hong10 vids period. hope to see more before he finally retires.

[@therealsidewaysgaming]

i watched that little clip where hong 10 tried to recover from a crash at the end no matter how many times i look at it it will always look like a crash to me ... and i was actually rooting for hong 10

[@snixsnipe]

born really needs to get his personal bias out of the way it's obvious he was underscoring hong10

[@sugoicrew]

You just got to the point. Issei's job was crazy difficult and technical, but I really can't see how his originality and foundation overpassed hong 10's one. The kid is gonna be a mad beast, but I honestly don't think he shoulda won this battle here. Props to both, specially to Hong10, it sure has been rough to him...

[@Quintennc]

Can't blame issei for hong10's lost , blame the judges lol . They just both did they're thing

[@wangchungman14]

i agree, i think sometimes ppl forget that hong 10 doesn't do power moves not because he can't but because he has moved beyond it, everyone can do those powermoves and he knows that but no one can do his moves i.e. hong 10 freezes

[@andyjohnson9402]

love to see the constant progresion in bboys. in 04 and 05 Cico and junior did straight power moves and won. Lilou came along and stepped it up with fresh moves. now we are getting complete Bboys like Lil g, born, and machine who have bee in the game for a while but push the envelope. Beat eaters who can powermove to the beat with clean foot work and originaitly.

[@Sey_Builds2]

Yeah 2005-2006 is my favorite Hong 10 as well lol. But the only problem with that Hong 10 back then was that he ran out of moves in just about EVERY battle he was in and ended up repeating the same halo freeze variations. At least this new Hong 10 has a way larger pool of new moves. I don't think he lost muscle (maybe he did). I just think he wanted to change his style.

[@MrExpression1000]

If you turn the music off you'll see a guy killing it at that foundation and another guy doing power moves.

[@R16KOREA]

How is the system flawed? The system itself doesn't magically select the right full winner, the judges do. What the system does, is provide transparency to see what the judges are looking at, and if they are doing a good job. So the system is doing what its supposed, the only problem is that some people in the community isn't, which is looking at the judges scores, agreeing or dissagreeing... and respecting the judges, the events, and all the hard work put in.

[@TheNaz1996]

I think hong 10 did good in this battle, a lot of people said that last few years hong 10 hasnt been doing so good but i think 2012 was a sign that he was coming back

[@mitismee]

2013 he was the 2 times bcone champion

[@jshank21]

its not just musicality that comes into play but its foundation mainly (which includes musicality) and character....born is the foundation judge.

[@douglasgomes6947]

Beautiful inspiring congratulations dispute.

[@MMStringbean]

Hey R16 Crew! How would you counter bboys/bgirls who do excessively long rounds to, essentially, "cover all their bases?" Like cats who do a bunch of power and a bunch of footwork, etc all in one round to get good scores on all the categories?

[@dopeboyzzz659]

ok issei had some foundation so he got a 3 however hong 10 did deserve more than a 2 for foundation you have to admit. dynamics isnt just power, there are 7 components to dynamics: balance, complexity, energy, flexibility, risk, speed and strength. i believe hong 10 showed the same amount of dynamics as issei its about the hardness of the moves not the impressiveness. also battle is just about effort, its also about outdoing your opponent which hong 10 did amazingly in his first set

[@danchi001]

Both so fluid in their movements!

[@cageman301]

Did Born have some kind of beef with Hong 10? What the hell was that about?

[@karakarakon]

It could be an essential,But sometimes bboy without foot work(less footwork) win.In BC ONE 2006,The End got 4th Place with his amazing Powermoves(few footwork ). Blue got 2nd Place at the BC ONE Asia qualifier(he didn't show footwork much)

[@BBoyWize]

Thank you!

[@therealsidewaysgaming]

@Heheh274 if thats part of the move then he needs to clean it up cause if you think about this and im not alone in saying this ... it looked like he crashed so SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE

[@rodionlee2533]

Hong 10 is so sick! Though Issei is great too - 15 years old and flying already.Respect to both bboys!

[@speggy_merball]

Yo in the categories that are judged, does 'Musicality' fall under foundation or Execution?

[@Paxpictures]

i think that crashs don't belong to the foundation categorie ,but to the execution. in my opinion hong10 also should get more foundation scores.

[@bboyheadrush]

1:00 why the hell did issei gain the musicallity?

[@newflavorteam]

Hm... so you are telling me that foundation is some kind of foundational moves ?

[@vvietmaw]

notice hong 10 got 2 foudation 2 round(it'should be 3,4) but when he was clashing at the end he got 4 for exeucution where's standard?

[@BBoyWize]

Yo Zeonbboy we know that Bboy Born been dancing 4 like 20 years. He started out doing powermoves. I'm probably one of the biggest Bboy Physicx and Born fans, but I prefer hong 10 any day. Let me get to the subject. Something went wrong with born judging system or he change his ways during crew battles competitions. Have you notices that he stop giving away 4-5 and only give 0-3s. I think born got into trouble with R16 . Please respond kindly and show some love for all bboys including RocZ

[@3DirtyKid3]

did not know a CC can give you a 3 on music and a post can get u a 2 on music. nice.......

[@JasonLee-te9cw]

LMFAO @ Born. He's a great bboy and a great rocker, but he's a horrible judge. 2 for Hong 10's musicality when he hit the beat with a freeze just like Issei... really?

[@selecta6]

The music symbol isn't really for musicality. It actually represents foundation.

[@zeeshansajid353]

+Allen Doan even if it was about foundation....hong 10 was miles ahead of him in foundation

[@Bboy2Soff]

Hong 10 should have gotten 5 on dynamics for both rounds, they were amazing, they judged issei correctly. . .except for his 2nd round foundation, should have been less then a three, he didn't do any footwork, not power foundation, like windmill/flare/airtrack . . . but yet hong 10 clearly does steps in his set, and still get less than 3. and if it's about listening to the music, Hong 10's first set should have been at least a 4. Born is such an inspiration, but I think that judging was wack.

[@SECHSACHT_bei_Nacht]

Best 1on1 battle in this R16!

[@RichardNunes07]

Quando assisti essa batalha pela primeira vez achei que o Issei realmente tinha vencido, mas assistindo hoje eu sinceramente NÃO FAÇO A MENOR IDEIA de como os jurados não deram a vitória ao Hong 10... O primeiro round chegou a ser desproporcional!

[@justahyundai]

Did Issei bite Arex or was it the other way round

[@xK3rune]

This is the problem with R16, each category has a few subcategories. We don't know if a judge is considering ALL of them or some, and we don't know which if only some. For FOUNDATION a judge may consider cleanliness in foundational moves, how much confidence they show in their rocking, variation, gestures, musicality, etc. IE: Profo Won in R16 NA gave out A LOT of 1-3s, if I had to guess, he gave bboys like Kid David's round a good score.

[@mikelangelohenrique9566]

muito bom!

[@MarreOfficial]

i dont know about this judging system man...First round i would clearly give to hong 10 or at least give him a 3 in musicality, he got a 2 even tho he did great in it...

[@Paul180]

Mauritz Strömblad The music symbol isn't really for musicality. It actually represents foundation.

[@MarreOfficial]

what is foundation?

[@Paul180]

Mauritz Strömblad Foundation is the basic structure of this dance. Without understanding the basics, basic movements, basic steps, rhythm concepts, musicality. You cant create or develop a style.

[@MarreOfficial]

***** does that mean that u get less point for doing more abstract stuff or i dont really get it

[@Paul180]

Mauritz Strömblad Foundation is always good! It will give you points for doing creative stuff. Check out Bruce Almighty on the redbull bc one 2015. Vs Pocket, Sunni and Alkolil he does such innovative stuff. I mean doing 90's on a redbull can is crazy. Stuff like that have big risks, but give big rewards. If you use basic things like flare windmill airflare it's ok, as long as you put it in a dope combination. Other factors also play a big role. like musicality, flow, originality, execution, style etc. and every judge mostly looks at seperate things. That's why the outcome of some battles is sometimes bullshit haha!

[@RizkyFTW]

does anyone know where i can get the songs from this video?

[@That0therG]

mad respect to both sides Issei's so young it's crazy how good he is

[@sOuPaMaN93]

does that mean that you agree with born's scores throughout the battle?

[@JermRF]

He was musical in his first round. Didn't show a lot of foundational moves though. That's your 2 explained, Hong 10 Fans.

[@erichagen1084]

hong 10 won

[@Orelion]

I'd really want to hear Born's take on his judging. Can Strife.tv hook it up?

[@thucster5]

AWwwwww come on, I love born and everything but whats up with the first set with giving hong 10 a 2.

[@dopeboyzzz659]

Give the system time. Eventually there will be consistency. Even though there is in writing what should be considered for each level in a category. The judge still has to obey those.

[@BboyRice]

yea totally agree with u man i absolutely support the OUR system but this battle suppose to go to hong 10

[@tommyk1347]

I can see a bit of Taisuke in Issei. Regardless, dare to go Halo against Hong 10 is pretty dope.

[@igogewd]

@TrekaXxx listen bboying is not about hitting beats...itsa bout staying on beat...ask alliennes about it...

[@Samir_Zope]

Where does Hong10 mess up?? Everyone's saying he wasn't clean but his sets seemed quite clean to me...

[@JermRF]

It's that and showing musicality mixed in one. Pretty sure that's how it works.

[@mykal26j]

What was up with that 2 for Hong 10 in his first round. His musicality was on point

[@JermRF]

confidence, musical approach, and how he dances. well MY BAD. i'm still learnin this thing too. i still see how he got the 2 though.

[@StaceMyuce]

............ What does stumbling have to do with foundation?

[@d2e32d4]

so you are saying that born and ken swift cant judge ?

[@abdulmalik3304]

ISSEI😉👌

[@richiehawtin87]

WHAt happened with Born and Hong 10 ? :S

[@mmmk189]

I think the foundation category should be split in two: a musicality and a confidence one. Also 5 is not enough to judge it properly, needs to be out of 100 or something, at the moment a decent power set gets 5, then if the next bboy does 10 one-arm airflares in a row he still can only get a 5... For the system as is the scores look ok to me, maybe hong10 should get lower than 4 on his 2nd round though.

[@diseasefire]

Its 2021 and i`ve decided i`ll point out all mistakes one by one - foundation first round hong 10 should be 4/5 issei should be 3 - originality first round hong 10 should be a 5 issei 2/3 - battle first round hong 10 4 and issei should be 3 (those are the rules by the way) - foundation second round hong 10 should be a 4 with issei being 2/3 - originality second round hong 10 should be a 5 and issei should be a 3 - battle second round hong 10 should be 3 and issei also 3 The real results are Foundation: Hong 10 Originality: Hong 10 Dynamics: Issei Execution: Tie Battle: Hong 10 3-1 real winner was Hong 10. The judges to be fired are Bboy Born and bboy Orb

[@Elephant_Thoughts]

Issei came prepared!!! Dope battle~

[@dopeboyzzz659]

there are 3 subcategories in foundation. Musicality, Patterns and Finesse. You need to have at least one of those shown clearly AND confidence to score well on foundation.

[@Ninjalord525]

Wasn't hong10 supposed to be in the army?

[@AirKevin15]

I love this beat, anyone know what it is?

[@Bendudexx]

yes true, he does crash a lot now but 3:02 isnt a crash, its actually supposed to happen

[@josebrandonsantana3249]

maybe there is rivarly between bornd and hong 10... but you have reason... it should be 4 points at least for hong 10 in first set

[@razorbboy]

they were live played so i dunno!

[@ItsJustBreaking]

issei is dope and deserves the win but how did he score 4 in creativity?

[@calvind77able]

it doesnt matter if he CAN, it matters what he showed in the battle. Flashhhjordan didnt say issei COULDNT do footwork, he just said that he didnt show it, although it is an essential

[@BboyZoinks]

Everyone saying Hong 10 didn't have foundation, tell me when did issei do footwork? Only for like 3 seconds

[@tjkasdfuhe]

you guys are forgetting that the category is foundation which INCLUDES musicality...

[@karakarakon]

I agree with you.New-gen kids have so much awesome skills nowadays.They're definetly coming to beat old-gen bboys.Vicios Vic,Sunny,Pocket....Now, Issei.They're all TOP bboy level already.

[@bloggerb0y]

what move issei do at 1:56 ?

[@Beanrocka]

Yeah, Issei on the other hand, got two 3s in Foundation which is swag/dancing. I think Issei definitely kept that up in both rounds. He kept the music in the mind and continued to hit the beat with some simple tops, amazing power, and some simple footwork. Nothing extraordinary enough to earn him a 4 but he was indeed average in foundation. I think Hong 10 got a 2 from Born because maybe born just felt that Hong 10 was throwing down sets rather than dancing.

[@Maniac01991]

i think some of the the judges use a cube to make their descision... that is it what it looks like sometime the system is a very good idea but still you have the problem like before that we all cannot understand why hong 10 become a 2 for musicality but was very nice on beat... hmmm the system is on the right way but their must be some changes with the judges maybe

[@Soulfide]

@Soulfide I take that back I watched a few other battles and it's not bad at all just didn't agree with this battle

[@jinruizhang]

the judging was realy good dont get it why many ppl talking. if your opinion were correct and the most precise maybe you were there judging, the judges are there because they know what they are doing.

[@KenlyBabie]

wow the battle result table so nice :X

[@nhoxlovetjeuvy]

what song?

[@brood909]

@Bboy2Soff I agree that Hong10 had more groundwork and also that he did hit the beat several times. However, Hong10 was not ON BEAT. There is a really big difference to hitting a few big beats with blowups and being on beat for the entire round; sure I can do a bunch of floorwork but if it isn't on beat it isn't worth shit. Although he didn't do much footwork, Issei was confident in his steps and made each one count. Issei's power kept the same tempo as the music. this is just one perspective

[@ItsJustBreaking]

r16 was 3 rounds last year, y is it only 2 rounds now -.-

[@supersmashgopher]

it doesn't stand for musciliaty. it stands for foundation. My guess is that he got points off because of the crash at 1:12. and also he wasn't making eye contact at 1:20.

[@bloggerb0y]

first song ?

[@Heheh274]

yeah but the iessi is a powerhead and gets consistent 3s

[@dopeboyzzz659]

i can see what you are saying for foundation but i still think hong 10 haha. i said battle was a tie because hong 10 should have got a 5 for battle first round. he completely outdid issei, answered issei's halos with better halo's and had confidence with it. second round i agree with the judges battle score

[@KRNlegend2]

@R16KOREA My wording was a little bad on that statement but I still feel the system has flaws. My comment about the originality category was more directed towards how Orb judged the competition. About the OUR system, I feel it's wack how Dynamics has its own category while musicality and technique are PARTS of other categories. And the fact that "confidence" is a part of both battle and foundation. I feel the system as currently structured is too favored towards certain types of bboys.

[@ayeexbribri]

I kinda like the old hong10 more D: it seems like nowadays he tries alot of crazy moves and ends up crashing alot of em and it looks like he's rushing. I like the old one where he took his time with all his moves while still being clean and barely crashing a single set

[@GabofFunk]

That means if something is 'fact' then there must be some sort of pre-existing set of rules which there aren't. This is the underlying flaw with this whole system as it is still a matter of opinion. You can't refer to the official bboy rule book to contest a decision made by a judge because it is a matter of how the judge values a particular aspect.

[@NELRUMT]

solo battle winner in japan team battle winner in usa performance winner in korea at least, r-16 is alive on fair

[@KevinNgYoutube]

Hong10 is a legend.

[@TheOneUltimateNinja]

what song is thiss??

[@dopeboyzzz659]

As I said, It has all been done before. Germans were doing this stuff in the 90's. O.U.R systems own rules, says that foundation is 1) confidence, 2) Approach to Music and 3) 1 or more of the 3 original bboy styles. 1 and 2 I would say would be tied but hong 10 showed much more of the original bboy styles, Also the judges are more experienced than me, but they did not stick to the criteria or the system. This system was made to make it a lot easier to see if a judge screws up.

[@karakarakon]

Does that mean you hate old judging system too?Even if issei's foundations were both 1 point...still he win tho 1 vs 3(37- 38).Lil G's less footwork too but he has lots of variations of powermoves.Issei has variations of powermoves too...

[@H20revolution]

agreed. Completely cannot understand how issei did nothing but power but got 3 for foundation and hong10 did footwork and got 2.

[@Killerboot369]

he tapped his foot, not a crsh, and towards the end of the round he body rocked out of a headspin it wasnt a crash. pay attention

[@oribabiro]

Are you German?

[@momentoz]

bboy The Game 2? God the graphics and movements are on point!!!