Does Voodoo Flossing Actually Do Anything? (A Review of the Research)

[@HoopersBeta]

Help us create the LARGEST ONLINE LIBRARY OF FREE TRAINING AND REHAB INFORMATION FOR CLIMBERS by liking this video :)

[@blahblah-ss4yk]

Could you create your own study on the subject? With the number of subscribers you have, it should be possible to do a more in-depth study on the subject?

[@user-yo6xb6ud6d]

I love that you're ultimately teaching how to interpret and think critically of various research. I feel better equipped to read and understand these sorts of studies now!

[@HoopersBeta]

Thanks for sharing! Happy you feel that way about our research vids :)

[@emilferent23]

I love these inconclusive videos. I know people want a certain answer but this is equally valuable! Thanks!

[@takedown6470]

I've been using flossing for about 2 years and it has been beneficial to me. I usually squat 2 to 3 times a week. I am 58 years young. I had knee pain while squatting. After flossing on a regular basis for several weeks, my knee pain went away. I now can squat below parallel with more weight with no pain at all. It help my son ankle, a high jumper/wrestler I train and a pro skateboarder I gave the information too. I think what helps out with the flossing is the actually stretching that is done with the flossing . You develop better range of motion.

[@justpassingthrough3410]

how do you use it? How often?

[@jayterra2060]

Hey thanks for sharing. Still feeling good. ? Also wanting to know how many times a week/day you floss. Thanks

[@takedown6470]

@@jayterra2060 , I use to floss every time I workout my legs. I no longer have to floss. My knees feel great. I feel like I reverse my aging process.

[@jayterra2060]

@@takedown6470 that’s great to hear. Keep up the great work and thanks for the follow up

[@suevanvuuren]

Brilliant video, thank you. I have personally found that flossing my feet or ankles have been great. Huge relief when they are tired or stiff and will continue to do so.

[@KongGooksu]

Bjj practitioner here. I've twisted 2 of my fingers some time ago and been having swollen fingers for about a month, and it wasn't getting better until I tried voodoo flossing. Maybe it was about time it was going to recover by itself, but I'm pretty sure that the flossing did some help in reducing the swell as well as ROM recovery. Worth a try!

[@TheMegaMrMe]

I like this format. People just are unaware of how bad a lot of "studies" are

[@austinrey91]

Great video! Thanks for the content. I'm a PT student and use your videos and write-ups a lot to increase my rehab knowledge for climbing related injuries. I have been prescribed flossing for my fingers by two PTs to treat chronic capsulitis in my PIP joints. Seems the thinking is that compression with ROM to the finger will help to reduce swelling and potentially speed up recovery with the increased blood flow after removing the wrap. Can't say for sure if it's helped or not but flossing along with several other treatments has decreased my capsulitis over the period of several months.

[@HoopersBeta]

Thanks for sharing! Glad you've found our videos to be useful in your pursuit of knowledge! Sorry to hear of the capsulitis but happy to hear that you are making some progress. A similar but less aggressive method would be to use coban tape + ROM.

[@kimnarakingkim6138]

Thanks for making this video! I try to use flossing to increase bloodflow to my fingers, in the hope that it increase the revmovel of waste product produced after training and the oxygen the blood carries to the fingers. Other then using the floss band for the "intended purpose" i use it around the ankle during resistance training, doing ankle circle and so on. So great to hear someone look through the data so far, would love to see some more detail researche in the future. Keep up the good work.

[@pieturnsmeon]

Incredible video. Well researched, informative, best of all applicable! Thanks for doing this!

[@HoopersBeta]

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it

[@syntaxcaptain]

I couldn't stop looking at that red tape flapping in the background. Great critique on the research notes.

[@whitemakesright2177]

Why do researchers waste their time with these tiny, short-term studies? There are thousands of them and they're basically useless. Wouldn't it be better to pool their resources and actually perform quality research with large sample sizes and longer durations? I guess that's too much to ask.

[@jennasevack5109]

While they’re not exactly super high quality, the scientific process often starts with these smaller studies that essentially serve as pilot project for more in depth studies. The quality of the research reflects where the process is at in terms of interest and time. For flossing it seems there is some interest (not huge amounts) and the research is relatively new. As time goes on and if interest increases, then we will see more extensive studies

[@spartin215]

I have been flossing for 10 years and it does work. After climbing, it helps not being pumped and it helps with recovery. I also do not get sore if I floss. I would want to see more research on it. A good one is if you floss after getting pumped in climbing and the results. Also soreness the day after for people who flossed and people who did not floss

[@boxalarmtrading]

I’m recovering from an Achilles tear that required surgery. During my rehab I’ve added flossing to my dorsiflexion stretches to help restore my ankle mobility. It has definitely made a positive difference in my opinion.

[@PizzaHomie]

Just started flossing today after several weeks of no improvement on my elbow pain. Found your channel looking for any evidence of efficacy. Excellent breakdown of what's out there! I'll write my personal findings after a few days here.

[@HoopersBeta]

Hope our videos help resolve your discomfort!

[@eigojiyouzu]

how did it go? i just started for my golfers elbow

[@mateverest8823]

Yeah, how’d you go?

[@PizzaHomie]

@@mateverest8823 Didn't seem to work. But it didn't hurt it at all either. So if there was any improvement, it was very slight and unnoticeable. I think it's still worth a try since it's cheap, fast, easy and with no risk of it worsening from flossing.

[@BodyworksPrime]

I've had recurring elbow medial epicondilitis if I do too much elbow flexion training volume in the gym. I've tried recovering it with and without flossing. Anecdotally my recovery from medical epicondilitis seems to be about twice as fast with flossing. However, I've have a recurring wrist injury also, it doesn't seem to do anything to speed up the recovery of that. From my experience, flossing efficacy for injuries seems to depend on the specific injury.

[@HoopersBeta]

Just to be thorough I would also check out our video on the ulnar nerve to see if that's playing a role at all. Thanks for commenting / sharing your experience!

[@dadude002]

I have used it successfully to unpump a flash pump or loosen up tight forearms on successive days of climbing, rather than as a injury rehab tool

[@gtjac]

From experience flossing 2-3x weekly I have noticed significant relief in Achilles, calf, and knee pain. Much like foam rolling, this modality helps me to relieve perceived pain and relax. This also means that I am more likely to stretch which I always do when flossing. 10/10 would recommend from personal experience because it costs $20 on Amazon. I haven’t read everything but from personal experience its effects are inconclusive at best. Ngl I like the way it feels.

[@dimitrisloterek6043]

It's so weird that so many studies with low quality are done. Even 83 participants is still super low. And there would be definitely enough people interested in sport and science to find enough participants. Let's take social networks like FB or yt instead of showing me ads about stuff can't afford anyway, they could help finding participants. Or give pros more free time, let's say one month without competition and in this month, research about what's the best ways to train on different levels and so on is done. Again the interest would be there and everybody would profit of it; more high quality research, better ways to train and higher qualities of the competitions... But ofc as long as one can earn money with more games and more ads that's what will come...

[@zacharylaschober]

Always amazed at the ability of people to convince themselves of massive benefits from unfounded contextual changes. We see more recent athletes in the world cups wearing those ridiculous carbonized titanium patches, and I know plenty of folks in the gym who swear by flossing but haven’t fixed the majority of pain causing problems sporadic session intensities and volumes and arrangements…

[@HoopersBeta]

You're correct, there is a tendency for people to resort to a modalities rather than address errors in their training methods, etc. Always a good idea to fix the fundamentals (sleep, hydration, nutrition, tracking training, etc).

[@flealr92]

Im currently flossing my finger (a2 pulley injury), and it does feel like it helps. Im thinking like a deep tissue massage and concentric work, while supporting the pulley.

[@paulgaras2606]

A good control would be athletes who don’t know what flossing is. So you floss one set and wrap the other sets arm in something non compressive.

[@duncanbowtell2607]

Love your content and I don’t even climb (well, I used to, sort of).

[@Type_-ov5nq]

Very well done video thanks!

[@patinador_con_clave]

While dancing I suffered a muscle tear in my calf muscle, the well-known "whiplash". Then a paracommando trainer told me to try flossing. I could no longer walk without pain. After three days of flossing I was able to walk normally again with some minor pain. After two weeks I felt nothing anymore. An incredulous physio recently told me that it was probably not a muscle tear, while the ultrasound certainly showed that I had that. I did the flossing three times a day with only 2 minutes of flossing each session.

[@zachwoosley2212]

Fantastic breakdown of multiple articles! Has academia followed the increased popularity of climbing with more focused research or is the field still lagging behind due to the nicheness of climbing specific biomechanics?

[@HoopersBeta]

Thank you! I think that the research is improving and growing as climbing continues to grow, but it tends to hyperfocus on popular topics. Research with climbing and specific modalities or treatments is still quite lacking.

[@inkwhir]

Great video!! But what about Voodoo flossing on fingers for pulley rehab? I couldn't find any research about it but quite a few climbers are recommending it

[@HoopersBeta]

That is something I had seen come up more recently as well! Unfortunately, there wasn't any specific research I found on it while combing through the research. While the mechanism may be the same / similar, I can't say anything specifically about outcomes (if it would be better with flossing or not) because of the lack of research, and because it's not something I have employed so I don't have any anecdotal advice. Sorry!

[@QuartzCanvas]

this format is awesome, a lot like breaking beta by kris. I'd love more stuff like this.

[@HoopersBeta]

Awesome! Glad you liked it.

[@duncanbowtell2607]

I should also say that I found the lack of a significant test base quite alarming. How are you supposed to really get any meaningful information from a handful of people over 1-2 days?! Why bother when the results cannot be credible.

[@glui2001]

Band flossing has done wonders for me!

[@Perry0823]

Hey Hoop! I have a question regarding a weird sensation I felt in my hand yesterday. I was making a sweet send of this problem and when I pulled on the kinda small but juggy hold in the open handed position I felt a kind of snapping in my hand. It was kinda like stringy Velcro being pulled apart. I stopped climbing and I have no severe symptoms others then a very light pain in the front of my wrist near my palm that honestly just feels like normal soreness from climbing. I have had this happen before and it's always the same kind of way, from pulling on a jug in an open hand grip while the wrist is maybe slightly extended. Obviously you can diagnose anything but just wondering if you had any thoughts on the matter, a video in the past you can refer me to, or maybe this is new content you could make a video on.

[@tito5428]

Voodoo floss is about 1/3 the price of 1 physio session. I just ordered some for my psoas syndrome

[@nolanarcher5123]

I love your approach to analyzing the study quality which makes it all the more cringe when you started hyping ag1. It totally undercuts your rational approach brand.

[@HoopersBeta]

Thanks! We stopped working with AG1 a long time ago

[@zetorux]

11:46 I was waiting for this throughout the whole video haha

[@HoopersBeta]

How'd I do?! lol

[@zetorux]

You SMASHED it!

[@Everheartt]

I’ve seen patients get vascular phlebitis from it. Probably super rare but noting it

[@HoopersBeta]

Oh dang! No fun. I didn't see that come up as a common occurrence in the research I read through (which was a lot! hah) so hopefully it remains a rare occurrence! Thanks for sharing.

[@geraldochi7945]

The best kf video is atg guy. But it's simple, try it and see if it helps-personally just not interested in the typical "we found, but on the other hand" studies.

[@shrodeseva]

Do you have any recommendation on wraps for this? Are you just using the standard resistance bands or something specifically marketed for flossing?

[@HoopersBeta]

The ones I used are specifically marketed for flossing. Flossing bands are a bit thicker and the texture on them is designed to be partially self adhesive so they stay in place better.

[@honorjoy1278]

Contact. #dribhiolulu for immediate help.

[@isaacharris9542]

Hi Dr. Hooper and crew. I have been climbing for around 8 months and want to start training. I climb 3-4 times a week, I am able to flash most v4s and can do v5 and v6s with a little projecting. Should I hangboard as a supplement on my rest days once per week? I have easy access to a gym so I don't want to do this to replace a climbing day but to get "better", General thoughts? Thanks, love the videos

[@DanDavis10]

Not a doctor, but Ive been climbing for 7+ years and training more intensely for 2+ years. I think rest days can be easy to undervalue, especially for somewhat newer climbers. Hangboarding itself can be super safe and definitely helps to improve finger strength, but it doesn't sound like the smartest idea to replace a rest day with a relatively intense finger workout. Especially given that your tendons only have 8 months of training in them it sounds like a recipe for injury. What Id recommend is to treat one of your climbing days more like a workout day if you aren't already. Perhaps after a rest day when your body will be more prepared for an intense session, you could warmup and then start with something strength focused and intense like hangboarding or campus boarding and then do some other climbing specific excersizes that might be more endurance oriented as you might have sapped some of your raw power from the earlier portion but can still get a good enduro workout in. But really try not to ignore the importance of rest days! Your muscles get stronger by breaking down and then repairing to a stronger version of themselves, and if all you do in break them down without letting them fully repair, then you won't be giving them a fighting chance at being as strong as they could be!

[@HoopersBeta]

Agree with many points Dan makes! Rest days are certainly undervalued (as he mentioned, tissue breaks down and then needs time to build back up, etc). And yes, hangboarding can be safe if you manage the intensity and volume. But agreed, patience and not overtraining will lead to more long term success. Granted, everyone is different and has different tolerances, I wouldn't rush anything yet :)

[@hetistijmen]

If you feel like your finger strength is holding you back go for it, but ease off the climbing a bit, especially fingery stuff. But if your progression is still good (and it sounds like it is) just climb more, outside being my preference. It's more fun than training and you get to practice movement and mental skills as well.

[@getagripjayhoo4190]

bb forums say that voodoo floss 100% helps overuse issues

[@switchfootforever24]

What about voodoo flossing for the fingers, particularly for joint synovitis?

[@HoopersBeta]

Nothing out there in terms of literature that I had found so may have to be an individual or practitioner preference. Hopefully someone does research on that soon!

[@switchfootforever24]

@@HoopersBeta thanks! Anecdotally, it has really helped reduce swelling/inflammation in my PIP joints. Sounds like there is no reason to stop doing this if it's helping me?

[@HoopersBeta]

@@switchfootforever24 correct, especially if it isn't causing other issues such as decreased mobility or pain. Glad it's helping you!

[@mrmonsterhunter808]

@@switchfootforever24 I also find it to help my superficial swelling if anything else. Even if it’s not helping my internal joints it makes my fingers look less nasty.

[@kevedwards]

@@switchfootforever24 how’s your PIP joints? I’ve recently had light swelling and limited mobility so hitting it with everything I’ve got early before it turns into a really problem. Flossing will likely be my next attack along with massage,ROM and Ibuprofen gels.

[@santosvella]

Hooper! If you had to undertake a study within your field of expertise and interest, what would you do?

[@HoopersBeta]

Great question! Honestly there are so many things I would like to study! The effects of BFR on finger strength in climbers as well as it's effect on common finger injuries to see if it expedited the process would be two that quickly comes to mind. Also, validation of tests and measures used by climbers (such as with our newest video on the 9C test) to measure physical barriers / limitations for climbers.

[@santosvella]

@@HoopersBeta it makes me wonder how you can reliably validate these things when much of the input is variable effort and the outcome is often perception of pain.

[@samdunkksu2b129]

i really thought you were just gonna have a bunch of nerdy rambles and just floss for 5 minutes

[@timothyfolds4683]

Might be a dumb question, but can you voodoo floss a S I joint

[@DottAlessandroRosin]

Does exist voodoo flossing only for fingers? more short and thin

[@balbibou]

just use a rice bucket

[@Franksmith-z7w]

Where can you buy the floss

[@HoopersBeta]

You can get it in many places I'm sure. Amazon will have it.

[@nbka8rs]

algogogo

[@HoopersBeta]

long time no algo comment nbka! Where have you been? haha.

[@MarshallSavage]

Stop with the research and do a self trial. It has benefitted my knees a lot, but it’s not a total cure. It stretches the wrapped area somewhat and the has made my pain dissipate for about 4 years.

[@bashizinyabahara8751]

too much leading to nothing. this is not the way if you're asking me. choose a specific detail and then go through all relevant available research. epistemoligy in Ph.th. is too shallow.

[@HoopersBeta]

What specific detail would you suggest (that also has relevant available research)?

[@bashizinyabahara8751]

@@HoopersBeta Keep it practical and relevant: leave research quality as a subject, only pick good /good enough research on a subject and work thay through. in general: Ph Th and research keeps being difficult.

[@bashizinyabahara8751]

@@HoopersBeta idea: do research yourself and try to get entrance in jails. they wouldn't mind too much probably...

[@barryevans6757]

A more relaxed speaking style might get you more likes............