OJ Simpson (Part 1)

[@hootsyoutube]

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[@Amira_Phoenix]

Your top for this video is gorgeous 😍

[@DarkEntries]

My (blonde hair, blue eyed) mother dated OJ in the late 70's when he played for the Bills. He was abusive toward her too. She said that his teammates warned her not to aggravate him because he had an explosive temper. Everyone knew.

[@hootsyoutube]

WHAT

[@DarkEntries]

@@hootsyoutube Yes. It's been a "joke" in my family that she has TERRIBLE taste in men and it did not stop with him. The cycle continues :\

[@catus-cactus]

Proof? 😊

[@pacingandmuttering5106]

@@catus-cactus Are you asking that because it is a reasonable expectation for a personal anecdote in a youtube comment, or because you reflexively disbelieve any discussion of abuse?

[@DarkEntries]

@@pacingandmuttering5106 How am I supposed to provide this proof in a yt comments section anyway? I've talked about it for years on twitter and in my personal life. It's not like I have an anon account on here. I'm clearly a real-person.

[@RussellCHall]

To paraphrase Chris Rock, if OJ was poor we wouldn't call him OJ we'd call him Orenthal the wife killing bus driver!

[@asmrtpop2676]

To paraphrase Chris Rock: watchoo want a cookie!?

[@martymcflown3707]

The fact that someone could have photographic evidence, diaries, witnesses, sometimes medical or therapy records of abuse and if the abuser is well-liked enough the victim STILL won't be believed is just nauseating. If Nicole had come out with this publicly before her death, would she have been supported? Or would she have gone through what so many others have when under the scrutiny of the public?

[@five_6_seven_8]

Look at amber heard. We already know how people would have reacted had she been public before

[@Owesomasaurus]

It was the 90s. Look at what happened to Anita Hill. No shot Nicole would have been believed.

[@thesocialnerd]

This is such a good point. Even if she did come out with all the evidence, there STILL would have been a narrative around her being "the other woman" or the times she might have hit him too. People would STILL look for reasons to not believe her.

[@EmoBearRights]

​@@five_6_seven_8Thing is is there evidence Depp was abusive before. Sometimes people just bring at the worst in each other. I believe in Me Too but it seems like you're told you must believe Heard or be a bad feminist but must you? I mean women can be shitty people too, they can lie and be vindictive towards their exes. I think it's just human nature that someone who is from any group can suck - OJ is proof of that. The mistake the black community at the time made was that if admitted he sucked they were disowning all of the other black guys who were legit victims of police discrimination - I get why they did it but it still blowed they did it. We need to be careful we're not doing the same with Amber Heard - one woman can be a shitty person it doesn't invalidate the abuse of others.

[@martymcflown3707]

@@five_6_seven_8 This was exactly what I was thinking. Like we saw this all play out before and it could have ended the same way for Amber, yet she's still treated like a joke.

[@marymac3572]

I am consistently shocked by how many people knew about the abuse. Not just in Nicole's case, but almost any time someone is murdered by their intimate partner.

[@mxpants4884]

I've supported three friends through some stages of leaving abusers that were very nearly lethal. After a couple of hopelessly naive attempts to help someone when I was younger I changed the way I thought about what kind of help I could offer. Instead of trying to extract the victim, I shifted my goal to not getting isolated from the victim by the abuser... and being a compassionate witness. Abusers tend to interpret any discomfort as an attack on them, and in creating an abusive relationship pattern they recruit the victim as a defender. They respond to being rejected like it's an existential threat, and the process of setting up an abusive relationship recruits the victim to that battle. So if he's in the room I let him be the center of attention and I avoid topics and comments that might make him insecure. When I can talk to the victim alone, I'll spell out what I'm doing and why I'm concerned (in person - don't count on anything in writing to stay private). I'll say that the whole reason we have a word for abuse is that by the time you're getting hurt they've made it very difficult to leave. I say that I hope that I'm wrong about the situation. I make some basic predictions about the future. I warn about the odds of deadly violence being highest when a victim is trying to leave. I tell her that it's normal to go back, and that I don't want her to be embarrassed to keep in touch if she does. Obviously I don't say all that in one conversation. What I don't do is demonize the abuser. I focus on the distinction of "as much as he feels love for you, love isn't just a feeling, it's actions and it's practice... and he's really bad at those parts".

[@moondoggie92]

This is how I've learned to approach people in abusive situations too (also after naive attempts focused solely on getting the victim out and then getting frustrated/not understanding when they wouldn't leave). Thank you for articulating this perspective for others who might not realize there are other ways to help.

[@mewmew6158]

Very important.

[@angiep2229]

Your 3rd line here nails it. If you're pushing them to leave, they'll often have to cut you off for their own safety, because the abuser is likely to know about it and demand it. Being supportive and being around is the best you can do. Also another thing that makes it hard is another experience that's basically universal. Abuser is not always like that. They can be really loving. In the beginning that's the case, and the bad times can seem like a fluke. Even when it becomes a pattern, there's also often a sort of apology phase where they are very doting on the victim. This pattern is really effective gas-lighting and adds on a great deal of guilt that the victim will feel as well. The first time my abusive ex boyfriend hit me, after he realized what he'd been angry about had been a misunderstanding, he was so kind and insisted on taking me out and buying me ice cream. I was "lucky" that my really bad, abusive relationship occurred when I was in high school. So I wasn't living with him, wasn't financially dependent, or legally tied to him through marriage. I'm so glad for all of this.

[@BadgerCommander]

That's all good advice. In the two times I was friends with people being abused I made it clear that I would always be their friend, no matter what the abuser said. When one friend called me up to say we couldn't hang out because their abuser didn't trust me, I told them I was sad about that, but that I understood they were being forced to make a choice and that I would be there if they ever need me. They cited that phone call as one of the things that made them finally dump the abuser

[@picahudsoniaunflocked5426]

@@angiep2229 I talked to a friend about our experiences with this recently & we were both the outcasts of our original families, which made us more vulnerable, then we had a similar explanation for why we stayed longer than we should've known to --- you don't recognize this is cyclical; they convince you in the aftermath that the crisis was a thing that was solved, it's better now, moving ahead will be better. Lovebombing/apologies hide that it's an illusion of progress; you think you're moving forward but you're cyclical.

[@allpeachesaredelicious]

There's something about Dworkin's writing, and the emphasis put on, "she must've been the loneliest woman in the world" that makes my heart ache. I hope her soul is at peace.

[@nathanjasper512]

IDK, She may be right but I still kinda don't like putting words in the mouth of the dead. Maybe she was happy and this Ahole took it from her. Like she said, "we don't know she can't tell us."

[@xeno_dork]

The first seconds of this video caught me off guard. Why is Dworkin considered “problematic”? I’ve known of her, but just don’t know enough.

[@TheHyruleFool]

@@xeno_dork She was a SWERF and TERF before either of those terms existed. All around terrible fauxmenist who gets a pass from cis people for criticising the porn industry.

[@clsisman]

She is commonly misunderstood as saying that all PIV intercourse between a man and a woman is r**e because of the power imbalance. She also identified as a lesbian despite never having or pursuing a relationship with a woman. For these reasons she is considered problematic. I don’t agree with either of these but even I think she was wrong as hell about some stuff.

[@dalm1504]

@@xeno_dork her thoughts on trans women and sex work are quite regressive. There is a lot of her stuff worth reading though.

[@maggiedk]

God, that intro gave me chills. I hope Nicole is at peace. Now let's piss on OJ's grave.

[@demetriam2408]

Yet another gender neutral bathroom

[@MadameCorgi]

Ron too

[@coldwar45]

I don't care for Dworkin at all, but god damn what she wrote was powerful.

[@EricaCalman]

Not even worth the effort to piss on, put flowers on Nicole's instead.

[@gabrielbruce1977]

Orenthal James "gender neutral bathroom" Simpson

[@Dippedinsilver1974]

I can only imagine what life what like for Nicole Brown. When your with someone as violent as O.J. Simpson, it can be impossible to leave. I survived an extremely abusive relationship, and I knew it would end with my death. I also kept photos of my injuries along with a secret journal detailing what he had done to me locked in a safe. He made sure I knew he would kill me if I tried to leave. I only got of it because he went to jail on drug charges, and I got the hell out of there. I was lucky, but so many women aren’t. It heartbreaking hearing what he did to her. I hope O.J. is getting his ass kicked relentlessly in hell.

[@Li_Tobler]

I hope you're on a path of healing, I'm so happy for you that you were able to get free

[@viviansventures]

I'm sorry you went through a relationship that bad and only got out due to luck... we live in an awful world where predators can do whatever they want and get away with it, no matter what vile thing it is... and abusive husbands bad enough to kill someone usually do many vile things before the victim can get away, if they can

[@mollywantshugs5944]

I really want to recommend Ayn Rand. She wasn’t as monstrous as OJ, but she sucked in ways that are funny to talk about

[@CasualFox12495]

Would love this!

[@yurifairy2969]

she's an absolutely loathsome person but in some ways I actually kinda pity her

[@OverAnalyst]

I really want to recommend Ayn Rand: NOOOO EWW FK NO! For this podcast where we can happily sht on her: YAAAY YES of course (sorry, Pavlovian response to that name)

[@saiyamoru]

Moderately irrelevant but I was given the middle name 'Ayn' in her honor and I remember even as a child trying to read her books and being appalled by the pure and whole-hearted advocacy for selfishness. It kind of makes sense when you account for her upbringing but that just makes her a perfect example of someone who 'broke' during their childhood and went their whole life without healing.

[@nikolasslead6582]

respect the dead has an episode on her already its really good!

[@anthropomorphisis]

I think it's important too to realize that she lived in an age before the digital media boom. Storing a physical photo somewhere where he could have found it would have been dangerous. Abusers will always destroy evidence of their abuse and punish their victim for documenting it. I personally am glad for the cloud upload my abuser wasn't aware of because he wasn't tech savvy enough. I'd look at that picture time and time again to remind myself to leave.

[@anthropomorphisis]

The punishment for documenting it in my journal was enough.

[@anthropomorphisis]

Kind of liveblogging this but like... the baby is 7 lbs, but what about the actual pounds of fluid, placenta, fluid retention, breast tissue increases, milk production, and fat stores for baby's health?? This man should have never been a father, or even a person.

[@manderly33]

@@anthropomorphisis And he already had two kids!! Like clearly he knew zero things about Marguerite’s pregnancies.

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

​@@manderly33 Or it was just an excuse. Because abusers love excuses (don't ask me how I know, I don't have time to trauma dump today).

[@Coffeeisnecessarynowpepper]

You make it sound like they're cave. People and she had to hide a rock carvin a closet.

[@rudetuesday]

I have complicated feelings about Andrea Dworkin's work, but she was right about how Nicole was perceived in the wider culture. The conversation about Intimate Partner Violence has shifted a bit, and can always move more. Thank you for talking so warmly about Nicole and her friends.

[@averyeml]

Yeah highlighting the “you’re all crying for her because she’s dead but if she was alive to report it you wouldn’t believe her” energy is a big one that I don’t think about often simply because that isn’t how it ended up working out. Things still suck for victims of abuse nowadays but god they used to suck just SO much harder.

[@yesthisislevi.]

what I notice is the desire of angry straight men to first possess and then destroy beauty. to first convince a beautiful young smart woman to be with you and then break her confidence and make her dependent on you must feel like a double win because in his mind an 'ugly' woman would be too easy to get. every time he beats her and she does not leave must have boosted his ego to the heavens.

[@Siathuan]

This. Imagine being so selfish and insecure that, rather than a partner to share your life with, someone you can trust with your weaknesses and who will tell you when they think you're wrong... They'd rather have a victim; a housekeeper and punching bag with "benefits." And it frustrates me beyond words that people still doubt feminism, still reject therapy and psychology...

[@Li_Tobler]

@@Siathuan that's because they imply (often times difficult) changes, challenges and growth. And humans are notorious of gravitating towards path of absolute least resistance :\ Saying this as an ex feminism-hater and mocker. It's honestly a miracle how I've changed, because besides a couple of girlfriends, my views were completely endorsed by everyone around me. ESPECIALLY men, of course lol

[@manderly33]

A little tidbit/correction about “If I Did It”: the Goldman family sued Simpson in civil court after the verdict in the criminal case AND WON. OJ dodged payment for years, which is partially why he moved from Cali, but in 2007, a Florida bankruptcy court awarded the rights to the book* to the Goldman family in partial satisfaction of the civil judgment. *That* is when the foreward and the afterward (by Dominick Dunne) was added. And the rights were available because the original publisher, Harper Collins, cancelled the book after a *massive* backlash to the book when it was announced. People thought OJ was trying to profit off the deaths. He said he was doing it to give his kids “their legacy,” which . . . yikes on bikes.

[@mxpants4884]

Thanks, I wondered how that happened.

[@bizzyslivovitz7306]

I read that 400,000 copies were pulped. Judith Regan was fired (the editor at Harper Collins). Then "If I Did It: Confessions of the Killer" was released the same day as the robbery, September 7, 2007. Has "The Ron Goldman Foundation for Justice" and "Commentary by the Goldman Family" on the cover so people don't think O.J. is profiting. The important thing is if that individual wanted to do something for his kids, he would have not let the Rockingham house go to foreclosure. He bought it in 1977 for $650,000. After the murder trial, he abused his neighbors who were demonstrating to get him out of Brentwood as "squatters" and proudly said he had been living there for nearly 20 years. The house sold in 1997, at a bank auction, for 2.6M. Then it was resold for 4M. The developer -- I guess this is yet another person who wanted the limelight -- hopped aboard a bulldozer and started the demolition. If you want to do something for your kids, you hang onto real estate.

[@sillyd0g]

the goldman family also redid the cover art for the book so that the "if" in "if i did it" is much smaller than the "i did it" part because they wanted to emphasize that he definitely did do that shit. im not sure if they still print it like that or not but i hope so

[@donnaimanbrown]

Retaliating against abuse is not abuse. There’d be no retaliation without the initial offense. Like only a world founded on the systematic subjugation of people could ever act like the reverse is true. 😩

[@luthientinuviel3883]

Right. My mom was emotionally abused for years and she didn't just take it, she argued back and simply told my stepdad the truth, but he twisted her words and gaslit her into thinking she was equally at fault.

[@donnaimanbrown]

It’s really vile and people get away with it on such a big scale. I know that playbook too well.

[@idiot_rat]

Big if true

[@ZijnShayatanica]

People want to claim it's an abused person's responsibility to "turn the other cheek" & "don't stoop down to their level". Meanwhile they're fine when governments sanction g3n°c!des because one small minority did A Bad Thing.

[@ayarcy5303]

So I was born in 1994 to a teen mom and survivor of domestic violence. Hearing this story knowing the context that my mom was pregnant with me and was still recovering from her own abusive relationship with my biological father at the time this was in the media... I'm gonna call my mom and tell her I love her now.

[@lenini056]

If anything, the American Crime Story “The People v. O.J. Simpson” episodes deserve a lot of credit for exposing the true story of how a biased court system, a loyal fanbase, and a sensationalized news media helped a wealthy celebrity get away with literal murder.

[@Li_Tobler]

Wealthy MALE celebrity. I feel like that's to be specified as even more of an upper hand, because women (unless _exceptionally_ attractive) still don't get away with as much. Thoughts?

[@gusgablaw7375]

'Oooh, this one is still kinda warm, I like that.' -The worm

[@searchingfororion]

Caelan's impression of useless cops is the most Canadian I've ever heard them sound.

[@voidify3]

a genuine “eh?” slipped out in the first 5 minutes lol

[@searchingfororion]

@@voidify3 I know, that cracked me. I've never heard them do that before. Haha.

[@taylorg2320]

Knowing that the Kardashians' late father was OJ's lawyer on this case makes me wonder how much he contributed to the way that all of his daughters keep ending up in abusive relationships themselves; like Khloe, who can't seem to emotionally escape the guy who cheated on her while she was pregnant twice, also Kim with Kanye, and Kourtney with Scott who used to have emotionally violent drunken outbursts. Knowing the mysoginy that was involved in OJ's defense against Nicole, the victim blaming, the way her emotional entrapment was constantly used against her to prove that she "wasn't being abused", how much of these values did that lawyer instill into his own daughters? I can't help but feel like some of those thoughts of "it can't be abusive if I WANT to go back" must have stuck with them in order for them to have ALL ended up in long term abusive relationships.

[@МакарошкиСПюрешкой]

Or maybe he actually didn't believe in this stuff and only believed in making money which influenced his daughters to become obsessed with obtaining capital

[@taylorg2320]

​@@МакарошкиСПюрешкой please don't misunderstand me as defending the Kardashians in any way, I have absolutely no love for them. I have a friend who watches them so I happen to know these details of their lives but I have a lot of hate for their greed and for everything they stand for and represent. But one thing that I will say is that they were making plenty of money on their own without needing the men that they stayed with for many, many years. I'd say that Kim became more relevant and liked than Kanye well into their marriage but she still stuck it out with him as long as his mental illness allowed. I've just noticed a weird pattern of these otherwise incredibly narcissistic women sticking it out with insane men with nothing to offer under really abusive dynamics, and I just always thought it was strange that all three of the daughters (the other two are half sisters) of this particular lawyer ended up like that. Just something to think on.

[@Blueeyesthewarrior]

@@МакарошкиСПюрешкой Por que, no los dos?

[@Bowie_8]

​@@МакарошкиСПюрешкой Maybe both

[@elenamilin7445]

This was very moving and sad; I dunno when Hoots talked about Faye Resnick trying to do hypnotherapy to try to remember every detail of her last conversation with Nicole, I was like, there’s something very sad and also beautiful about that. How much she loved Nicole. It sounds like she wanted to try to hold the last piece of her friend who was gone in this horrible way, and I’m so sorry for both of them.

[@chasewr118]

Wake up babe, Owl Lady has blessed us with another masterpiece

[@20000dino]

Who's the cute guy in your profile pic?

[@cerebratt2752]

💯

[@femmefuntime]

Eda Clawthorne dropped a masterpiece? /j

[@karolynnecrook3885]

I didn't know my name until kindergarten. My whole family always called me Kate or Katie, which is notably not a nickname for my real name: Karolynne. My parents decided on a weird compromise and let me live a lie.

[@kkimsey5866]

🤣. Yeah, it's not really that unusual. Names are weird and kids are learning a lot of stuff 🤷

[@ayarcy5303]

Stories like this is why I insisted my daughter (who goes by her nickname near exclusively) could recite her full legal name by like two

[@superpheemy]

I never heard the name "Orenthal James" until Judge Ito read the name when reciting the charges against him in court.

[@GabyGeorge1996]

I keep thinking his name was short for Orange Juice

[@josephconnolly4262]

Junji Ito was his judge?

[@TMJW]

“We will ruin your night but we don’t want to trigger your PTSD” is maybe the greatest logline for these times Living through the OJ Trial was one of the most brain breaking experiences imaginable, glad y’all are helping do the work to keep his legacy forever tarnished

[@fakeusername92]

Advice/idea for aupporting someone who is in an abusive relationship, while also accepting that relationship and maintaining your own relationship with that person that is not entirely about their abuser/caretaking: talk to them about, validate, tell them it's not okay etc etc, then *tell them you'll check in about it in X months." Someone close to me was in an abusive relationship for many years and I really struggled with empathy burnout around hearing about their abuse and knowing they weren't going to leave. They did finally leave, but if I had done the above (instead of yanking support by randomly not engaging in the topic when I got burned out every year or so) I think it would've been way better for me and them.

[@starophie]

in twenty-one days, it will have been thirty years since her murder. i believe he was too scared to live to see that anniversary come. may he rot forever.

[@mrbubbies_]

Of course he met her at 18 when he was pushing 30 ugh

[@yurifairy2969]

the pathetic manchild classic

[@PlutosAsleep]

i just turned 18. like literally may 25. i don’t understand how any 30 year old has ANYTHING in common with someone my age? you’ve lived almost double the time i have, what does a 25-30 year old woman not have or can’t give you that a 18 year old CHILD. because yes i will recognize im still a child. Can? absolutely nothing but naivety and inexperience.

[@FuzzyGecko]

​@@PlutosAsleepI think that's the point. Wanted the power

[@Mshi-]

W Oj

[@JTonyArts]

Hearing you guys describe football, and sports in general, and make sense of it, is like listening to the 5 blind guys describe the elephant, and I’m totally here for it!

[@ZijnShayatanica]

Lmaooooooo that is the best description of it.

[@Lynsey17]

1:04:15 Not to get too dark, but this is absolutely something you are encouraged to do if you are in an abusive situation. One of the best things you can do is keep a record of incidents & dates to support ongoing abuse accusations. Sad, but true.

[@motorcitymangababe]

Something that stands out to me in all of this, considering her going back to him- i wonder if she was just feeling defeated. If the cops barely do anything and hes a peeping tom on all her attempts to start a new relationships... Her choices are OJ as a husband or being alone with oj as a stalker.

[@adamgreene187]

But Hoots, he spend years looking for the real killers! How could he have done that if he did it? No way he would have lied to us, right? Just because he did a few hundred times doesn't mean he will this time! Also, hurts agreeing with Dworkin, but this was a fantastic essay

[@Owesomasaurus]

Hunting for the real killers not that difficult if you see them in the mirror every morning.

[@snowballeffect7812]

This podcast has big Charon energy. Absolutely stygian vibes.

[@ronanodonovan3673]

Hoots, Caelan, and Mandy as Statler & Waldorf, watching Anubis weigh the hearts of the dead and periodically shouting "the suspense is killing me!"

[@docjoe86]

22:18 May people who died from AIDS were directly killed by cancer. AIDS increases your likelihood of getting many types of cancer, with Kaposi’s Sarcoma being the most well known type.

[@PlutosAsleep]

Yes and bone cancers are extremely likely, aswell as pancreatic which gets undiagnosed for so long and is SO deadly.

[@angiep2229]

Thank you, Caelan, for your comment about facial expressions. Autistic people (such as me) often have facial expressions that don't seem to match the situation at hand (according to neurotypicals). And I definitely have a resting bitch face going on.

[@thedevicebook]

I honestly wish the term "resting bitch face" didn't exist. It's just a way for others to judge someone's character based on appearances rather than actions. And as you've mentioned, neurotypicals are likely to misread the faces of neurodivergent people. I honeslty find neurotypical people so confusing because they really do seem to believe social cues are universal when it seems so obvious to me that everyone is using a different playbook.

[@v-1nce]

hoots, the skeleton hand heart top is badass! extremely ready to get unhinged for the next couple of hours

[@sherikrupp]

Trauma literally affects the memory center in your brain. Through cortisol production caused by the stress response, you can have physical deterioration of the entorhinal cortex/hippocampus. It does the same thing to your prefrontal cortex which is why you notice so many symptoms similar to ADHD in people with long histories of trauma. OJ was a monster.

[@PlutosAsleep]

33:04 33 deaths can sound like NOTHING to us these days. But that’s 33 HUMAN BEINGS with lives and families and friends and lovers and children and pets, and jobs and cars and homes they never got to go back to. That’s 33 people who will never see another birthday, christmas, achievement, promotion, or another DAY. That is not nothing, that is EVERYTHING.

[@Silvermoon424]

Just started watching so idk if you cover this (or will cover it in Part 2), but there's this really bizarre tv special OJ did where he would prank people. It's called Juiced and from what I've heard every person he pranked is visibly uncomfortable and nervous when they realize who he is. I think he enjoyed his notoriety.

[@literaterose6731]

So…I had to stop for a bit, in part because some of the discussion hit a little hard, and made me flinch. Upfront: I’m a survivor of multiple abusive relationships, including life-threatening situations. I’ve also worked (volunteer) with DV organizations and survivors. My main concern is the really common framing of why people “don’t just leave” as connected to some kind of emotional attachment or repression. Yes, that can and does happen, often as a part of the reason, but it’s important to remember that it’s generally much more complex-and much more rational-than that, as well. First and foremost, those familiar with intimate violence issues have known for decades that the most dangerous time to a victim is during or after leaving-and the survivors themselves absolutely know this. What happened to Nicole is textbook in that regard: she was killed well after she left O.J., *not* while she was still with him. Additionally, it’s not uncommon for abusers to maintain financial control, even in wealthier families, limiting the partner’s ability to get away. There is usually some degree of physical or psychological isolation, often threats of various sorts (for example, that if the abused tries to leave, they’ll lose their children, have authorities convinced they’re delusional, be accused of crimes, etc). Many things like this make leaving fraught, difficult, terrifying or even near impossible. Add in physical violence, especially where there is a significant power imbalance (where the abuser is famous, or has some kind of institutional power, etc), and there might be nothing irrational or emotional at all about staying until a safe(r) exit can be found. I’m really glad you’re tackling this one, but I was so anxious about this part of the story (that you do a stellar job retelling, honest, I’m not bagging on you guys, love everything you do!) that I haven’t been able to finish until I wrote this. I know it’s too long for a lot of people (sorry!), but I hope it helps a tiny bit with understanding when encountering these situations for folks who find themselves asking that age-old question who do manage to get through this novella! Nicole and Ronald were murdered on my youngest child’s 6th birthday. I remember the trial vividly, and the gut-punch (sorry…) of the verdict as a survivor both past and ongoing at the time. It made a lot of us think twice about trying to get out, I can tell you.

[@lark613]

Thank you for saying this.

[@paulv8773]

It's sad that it's 3 decades later and the stuff said about Amber Heard recently is basically the exact same as what was said about Nicole Brown Simpson back then.

[@saiyamoru]

I understand where you're coming from but frankly I don't think their situations are comparable.

[@manderly33]

@@saiyamoruThey absolufuckinglutely are. You say that because you don’t believe her and you don’t want to believe you got snowed by a hard-court press propaganda campaign into siding with an abusive move star.

[@saiyamoru]

​@@manderly33 A) Amber isn't deceased, so I don't think they're comparable simply due to the sheer severity/consequences of the abuse and the length of time it was endured in Nicole's case, and B) Heard was believed by the mass majority until the point of the second trial, so the comparison also doesn't work because she was given an immense amount of support and sympathy originally. Amber, a celebrity, told her own story, had it published internationally, and was generally believed - then she was questioned and had her reputation destroyed through the ensuing litigation. Nicole's experience was almost the polar opposite - she, a housewife with no autonomous star power, was never given the opportunity to tell her side, her abuse was immediately questioned as soon as its existence was established, and ultimately she has been vindicated in the eye of the general public.

[@manderly33]

@@saiyamoru a) What the fuck. What the fuck. What the fuck. Do you hear yourself? Amber would have to be DEAD before you think her case was “comparable”?? Why does someone have to be abused for a really long time before you think it’s “serious”?? What is wrong with you? B) No, she was not “generally believed until the second half of the trial,” tf? You are either misremembering or mischaracterizing what happened. She didn’t “tell her story”; she didn’t say anything publicly about it until she published the op ed that got her sued, and even then she did not mention his name. Johnny Depp literally paid for bots to stan him and crap on Amber. He had actual real-life stans working overtime to push his innocence in the press and online. People were mad she divorced him, and mad that she took out a restraining order because of the abuse. It affected her career and her public image, long before he sued her. At trial, Simpson and Depp both claimed that their wives were the ones who were actually abusive. The Simpson case was criminal and the Depp trial was civil, but they were both a circus, and they both fucking raked the abused women in question over the coals. Depp and Heard got together when she was half his age. Sound familiar?

[@searchingfororion]

​@@saiyamoruThank you very much for pointing this out the way you did. Although I personally have opinions regarding the topic brought up (yet I *also* feel this was not the time nor place), I could not have worded a better reply than what you did here. Regardless of one's opinion on the most recent case it doesn't change the facts of the *actual* subject at hand; You illustrated perfectly the *massive* contrast between the two. I also want to add that I remember the trial *actually* being discussed in this episode and, quite frankly, despite the media blitz surrounding it (and seemingly everyone having a *very* strong stance even before opening arguments started and even as it unfolded people created their own narratives about why every latest update 'proved' their position); I don't ever remember anyone anyone even saying Nichole's *name.* It was O.J's trial - occasionally regarding his "ex-wife" - even in later media. Not only was she never able to platform her voice regarding her experiences, but even in death (and the decades after) she was only referred to as a proximity *event* and/or item in the mans life.

[@elsiemon]

Lot of this is resonating with all the stuff we've been told and are learning about Sean Combs for years

[@floraposteschild4184]

There's a comment from Vincent Bugliosi's excellent book about the murder case, Outrage, that sticks in my mind. It goes something like: during the nightly talking head sessions on CNN, FOX and other news outlets, the commentators would call him "O.J." O.J., O.J. this and that. Why are they calling him an endearing nickname? What has he done to deserve it? He's an admitted wife abuser, who's on trial for murder. He's just "Simpson" to me.

[@bizzyslivovitz7306]

Yes, my library doesn't have "Outrage," which is an outrage. I live in a big city and it has about three Simpson trial books, so sic transit gloria mundi. I also didn't want to buy the books, just take them out of the library, because when he died, I wanted once again to try to understand this, but not invest any money, because it's just such a sickening topic. The good book by Bugliosi is "And the Sea Shall Tell." What a story!! Caution: a horror story! Vincent Bugliosi retired as soon as he got all that money from "Helter Skelter" and I'm glad he became a full-time writer, but it's too bad they didn't have a prosecuting attorney as zealous and as willing to dumb it down as he was. "Throw it out the window!" "All the DNA evidence: throw it out the window!" "The Bruno Magli shoe-prints: throw it out the window!" "The expensive Aris Isotoner XL gloves: throw it out the window!" "The sightings of OJ Simpson on Bundy and San Vicente and a white SUV near the Bundy condo: throw it out the window!" "The dark-tracksuit-wearing figure entering the Rockingham house: throw it out the window!" He said the coincidence that O.J. Simpson told the police on June 13th that he just happened to cut himself at the same time the murderer cut himself, and couldn't remember how he cut himself, and was bleeding around the house and in his Bronco, etc., etc. But I don't think that's the reason a jury would say, "Obviously he did it." I think the case is summed up in this "Statements by the jury": From Wikipedia: Geraldo Rivera asked several jurors what their reasonable doubt was concerning the blood drops found next to the bloody footprints near the victims that were photographed hours prior to Simpson's blood being drawn. Those samples were sent to Cellmark for testing, not the LAPD, and were shown to be Simpson's blood with chances of error being 1-in-9.7 billion. In response, juror Carrie Bess said that she thinks the blood belonged to Simpson's children; juror Marsha Rubin-Jackson said that she thinks Simpson's blood was left there next to the bloody footprints prior to the murders happening; and jury foreman Amanda Cooley said that she had no explanation for that incriminating evidence and stated that it did not factor into her decision of reasonable doubt.

[@embert.12]

@@bizzyslivovitz7306I don’t know where you’re from, so I don’t know your library’s exact policies, but you can ask them to get a copy! Also, they may be able to get it for you in an interlibrary loan. Either way, it’s worth asking a librarian about it.

[@Mavisdundundunnnmanston]

Hearing both of you talk about your personal experiences makes me ok to deal with mine. So excited to see ep.2! Hoots, i am also 35 and i look good. You look even better than i do. Your top is also better than anything i own.

[@Soudrah]

I cheered alone in my home reading Part 1 then seeing the run time, hoots vids are always a bit of youtube therapy

[@g.m.9180]

I just finished listening to "your wrong about " podcast's many brilliant episodes on this. You arrive right on point!

[@caraxkins]

IVE WANTED THIS SO BAD. I was literally smiling all day the day OJ died, like hell yeah....this is what the fuck I'm talking about.

[@lupeylycan]

clicking this expecting a normal video and finding out its a podcast with a cohost and everything was such a plot twist (a good one though)

[@paulj.l.9696]

Omg I had no idea he died!! Talk about being the bearer of WONDERFUL news, Hoots!

[@byrrnitdown]

I usually just listen, so forgive me if this is old news, but I love Hoots’ top so much

[@GarethOlson]

I think both buffalo bills are named for the old west historical figure lol

[@SarastistheSerpent]

Yeah Jame Gumb from Silence of the Lambs was nicknamed Buffalo Bill because a cop made a joke that he “skins his humps” (referring to how he flayed his victims for their skin) just like the historical Buffalo Bill supposedly scalped Native Americans.

[@carpevinum8645]

1:00:00 and getting a photo back then you had to take the photo, and then go get someone else to develop it, and then wait, and then go pick it up knowing damn well they've seen it...

[@neonradius]

Six months ago, my mother was killed in a murder-suicide by her abusive ex-husband. His first wife had committed suicide after he harassed her when she tried to leave him (we didn’t know the full story until later, because his friends and family started saying she was mentally ill before, even though she wasn’t). The cops repeatedly called my mother a liar despite having proof he repeatedly violated his restraining order. The detective on her case (who, thanks to it being a small town, I know had just been through a divorce and did not like women) went so far as to accuse her of sleeping around and say “if we believed every crazy ex girlfriend we’d never get any work done”. This was after he broke into our house. Even after her death people always sarcastically ask “Well, she should’ve just bought a gun to defend herself” (which, just to clarify she did have a gun, but guns don’t actually help you that much when someone quietly breaks in at 3am) or call her a slvt for having remarried after her first divorce. As you can imagine, the discussions around OJ’s death have been really hard for me. I just want to remind people that femicide is not an issue of the past. My mom was a middle class white, good-old Midwestern woman who lived in suburbia and even had friends in the legal system. And she couldn’t get justice. She was so sure she’d die that she put her affairs in order. How do you think other people (POC, people in poverty, people from outside America who don’t know how the legal system works) get treated?

[@emisformaker]

Wait, wait. He began an affair outside his marriage to Marguerite at a place called The Daisy*? What a strange coincidence. *Marguerite is the French word for a kind of daisy.

[@ZijnShayatanica]

It's a "Remus Lupin" level of happenstance, hahahahah

[@loorthedarkelf8353]

1:08:13 point of contention, it looks exactly like she took it herself-- with a polorid self developing camera. What would have been expensive and new when she was that age. I'm an author so of course I think of the most dramatic thing; her asking for a nice camera to take pictures with, him getting mad and hitting her, and then getting the camera for her as part of the honeymoon phase immidiately after the abuse occured-- and she got an idea. The photo was probably spur of the moment, the thing someone does say.... after taking a long shower and weeping the entire time Because You're So Upset And Confused And In Danger that you get an idea to take a photo and send it to the police. Take the photo, have a meltdown because Do I Really Want To Ruin His Life? He's Done So Much Already. Where Will I Live? Will My Family Support Me? What If I End Up Dead In The Street? So hide it somewhere. Keep the evidence and wait for the right moment, secure an exit plan. And then maybe forget because Traumatic Stress does that. It is *so* good at that.

[@JTonyArts]

The ”we’re dead, in predatory, ant to get out we have to make podcasts dragging other dead” is your MST3K storyline.

[@jbone877]

This episode got me swinging my wooden practice sword

[@bernjobi]

HONESTLYYY im currently at work for another 15 minutes and this has me giggling too hard

[@manderly33]

Excellent and macabre callback.

[@faith-by-faith]

I thought this man's name was Orange Juice for the longest time. Anyway, I just woke up, let me actually listen to the pod now.

[@ZijnShayatanica]

I was a confused child, wondering how orange juice was responsible for a woman's untimely demise.

[@mitcharendt2253]

1989 is when spousal rape was made illegal. It's wild

[@raegun]

No one noticing Marguerite being his first wife literally makes her Marge Simpson

[@cindy.5309]

wait, you're right 😭😭

[@R0291-l1l]

I found this channel/podcast thru Caelen and i LOVE the intro song

[@chickengogo1683]

hoots ur cold opens are always SOO FUCKING GOOD

[@faith-by-faith]

Okay, I have listened. I have regrets. I'm also going to play Stardew Valley for a few hours, on my cheaty file. Maybe alternate with crochet because I want to finish this thing for my mom soon. How did you do this? How did you survive the research process? How many hours have you logged in Stardew?

[@TheHyruleFool]

I was really looking forward to this episode, but opening with a quote from Dworkin (who is not just 'problematic' but bad enough she could have her own episode) was like being spat in the face, as a transfeminine person.

[@xeno_dork]

So she was a TERF? That sucks. Was she anything else shitty? Because I’m not super familiar, and have only heard her good quotes cited uncritically, and hadn’t known she was problematic.

[@lark613]

She deserves her own episode

[@glupik1234]

dworkin, as many passed philosophers, has a lot of problematic views, but a lot of actually useful writings, too. foucault is cited by video essayists every other video yet nobody brings up the fact that that guy was pro-p**ophilia

[@lakeberatan1339]

26:56 it's just a little riff but god damn the thought of OJ running around your house at 4am is terrifying.

[@LauraDelColBrown]

This is a great episode! Just one quibble - Nicole Brown Simpson's murder was definitely not the first time there was a public conversation about domestic violence in America. For example, the "battered woman syndrome" defense was successfully used in the 1977 trial of Francine Hughes, who killed her abusive husband by setting fire to his bed. Her story was turned into a book and film, both called The Burning Bed, which were hugely popular and generated a lot of discussion. It's rarely true that people have never talked about something before; it's more common that they've talked about it but not learned anything.

[@paulj.l.9696]

Omg there was a women's golf tournament (why is golf segregated by gender???) outside my street last weekend and I literally said the same thing to my wife, "if you can have a whole pro career and get out of it without a concussion, it's not a real sport" 😂😂 I'm literally Caelan

[@ZijnShayatanica]

Sports are a silly construct that humans created so we can see numbers go up & rank ourselves above other people. I used to share your sentiment, but now I'm Team Everything Can Be A Sport. Competitive waffle toasting, ultimate cat petting, skins VS skins tax filing. If you make up enough rules for an activity & you can quantify some amount of your progress- it is now a sport.

[@loorthedarkelf8353]

I am SO HERE for this video because I was born in 1991. OJ was Recently Old News, so no one would explain it but all the adults in my life were referencing him

[@SunniestAutumn]

The theme tune during the ad breaks is incredibly, ear-drum-shatteringly loud in comparison to the actual podcast. Jumpscares me every time.

[@YukiAndZeroFTW]

4:50 "When I was in the third grade, I thought I was OJ"

[@angiep2229]

So many people have trouble understanding just how difficult it is to leave. Even with how extortionist housing costs are right now, so many people don't seem to understand that's a major factor. My friend lived with her abusive husband for like 7 years before they got their divorce and she was able to move out. I'm also getting divorced (thankfully my husband is a pretty nice person; we just want to go in different directions), but I have no freaking idea how or when or IF I'm going to be able to move out and live on my own. My income alone just isn't enough, and his isn't much by itself either. So, yeah, it's VERY hard to leave, and that's only the housing aspect, when there are so many other factors that complicate things.

[@lark613]

Many people don't realize how expensive it is to be a survivor.

[@picahudsoniaunflocked5426]

Plus people think "if it was that bad, there are services that take care of you". Yeah good luck with those.

[@averyeml]

Him not knowing his own name until 3rd grade is not even slightly shocking to me, as a teacher. At one school we had a kid enter kindergarten who would not answer to his own name because his family kept him home literally every day of his life before then and just called him “baby.” His name was Xavier, when I left and he was entering 2nd grade he still wasn’t good at pronouncing it and even worse at spelling it. The spelling part’s even more common, I used to write the kids’ first and last names on their book boxes so they could find their seats on the first day (of 3rd/4th grade) and the number of kids who would tell me “well I don’t know how to spell my whole name” when it was LITERALLY SITTING WHERE THEY COULD COPY IT

[@abiylakew3328]

A nearly three hour video that's only part one. What a hoot

[@alexjames7144]

"omg imagine when i die i get featured on the podcast so they can talk about how much of a slay i am" It took me a good few seconds after thinking this whilst they were discussing how hot and athletic OJ was before i remembered the point of the podcast and realised it would in fact not be a slay to end up here ffs

[@crocutamire4909]

When you got to the "Caelan - Disambiguation" segment, I excited shouted/suggested "Cato canine, Cato canine!!" at the TV

[@Riley-uy5pe]

god it's so crushing that there was potential for her to be in a relationship with her best friend. a potential for her to find that happiness in someone who loved and respected her as a person. totally devastating

[@Tacom4ster]

Norm McDonald is smiling

[@ZijnShayatanica]

Norm was a national fucking treasure. Unfortunately, he also reminds me of... The tragedy...

[@rainbowdemon5033]

the part where you talked about having to be careful with speaking to a friend about their partner really resonated with me. I had a friend that was in a relationship with a man that was 30 year olds while she was 18. they even moved in together when she had to move for studying. I had a uneasy feeling about it early on, but non of the adults seemed that bother and most of our friends where supportive. Most of the criticism people made was more focused on her than him, so that also made me hesitant to bring up anything outright. Years later, once she moved out and had a new (age appropriate and kind) boyfriend, I brought it up. She told me, that she was grateful for me telling her, and that she also thinks she wouldn't have received any concerns the right way. Still, I think about that situation a lot. thank you guys

[@shruglifecomedy5709]

Ok Bay Area native here, Potrero hill is a weird neighborhood. The projects still stand, and half of the neighborhood is gentrified, and half isn’t, but it’s still the cheapest place to own a house in sf proper. And even when it wasn’t gentrified, it was never the worst neighborhood

[@symonewest5449]

Hoot's shirt is kind of goth goals

[@Bluezexmas]

I just found this channel yesterday

[@vaguelycelestial]

Just woke up. This is now my whole day.

[@snowballeffect7812]

So happy for you, homie.

[@johnplayer420]

Please rule the world wise owl queen

[@jaynestrange]

I don't know why, but the bit a 1:36:10 about her weight stood out to me. Like, that's just wild that anyone could think 10 pounds is too much to gain during pregnancy? It wouldn't be out of the ordinary for a football player to have a baby that weighs 10 pounds all on their own. Really shows how disconnected he was from the whole process that it didn't occur to him.

[@caitie8921]

Ooh I’ll be checking out the rest of your podcast now.

[@radsaq]

Hello Respect the Dead on hoots' channel, fancy seeing you here 😏 also that top is ❤️‍🔥

[@CynthiaMcG]

Now that Morgan Spurlock has died, I respectfully request an episode on him.

[@spantigre3190]

Fuck. I'm going to have to go back and find those Roy Cohn episodes. And i had plans tonight...

[@maggiemccoy1318]

5:21 I have an uncle William, but my Nana has never called him William, she’s always called him Willy. When he was getting called on in first grade for attendance he didn’t raise his hand, the teacher finally went to the one kid who didn’t raise his hand and said “aren’t you William?” He said “No I’m Willy”

[@Cochinealisthenewwoad]

Six hours of Stardew Valley sounds good to me right now. Sleep? Naaaaahhhhh. I don't like to comment anywhere, really, but I'm especially glad you're doing this podcast together. It's a little easier to cope with friends.

[@ZijnShayatanica]

Your farm waifu choice is top tier. 💕

[@user-ki3qf7mw3m]

🙋 Hey Hoots, would you ever allow LGBT+ survivors of SA/trafficking, cyberstalking, etc. to anonymize and share their stories with you amid the hypocritical 'groomer' conversation? Key word, anonymize, not asking you to represent us in court. ❤

[@redmage5251]

i wouldn't count on the kind of person who'd quote dworkin to do that

[@voidify3]

@@redmage52511st 3 words of the video “Andrea dworkin, _problematic_,” I’m sure if someone else had written a better essay that would have been better for this hoots would have quoted that instead

[@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023]

1:17:42 My Finnish brain re: framing pictures "IKEA!" (Yes, there are framing professionals here, too, and their work often costs an arm and/or a leg, but Ikea is where my AutDHD mind went first.)

[@RamenKitsune]

Pisces sun cancer moon didnt enjoy the attack on my dummy thick behavior.

[@salviapratensia]

It is always wonderful how you two lighten the mood with your banter.

[@LauraisLoading]

andrea dworkin (problematic) took me out

[@nightwingphd8580]

God I wish people would have told me that Potrero Hill was rad and queer when I was growing up there

[@iheartmusic41]

that intro was incredible but i was completely distracted by your top/dress, soooo beautiful.

[@TacticalGamingFool]

Caelans status as iconic is reaffirmed within 1 second on their beutiful face showing up onscreen. Not to overshadow lil hoot ❤ buuut Caelan is my spirit everything 🩷🤍💙

[@EmmaDelamare]

B T Dubs, you do know the name Buffalo Bill comes from a famous cowboy, not silence of the lambs?

[@maybezan8149]

Ily you two. This would have been really hard to make, I cried on the train. Thanks for doing this.