The Dirtbag Left

[@hootsyoutube]

Hey guys, I made a joke in this video that I regret. I say that the body of Keffals work boils down to "a racist waste of time". It was mean-spirited and wrong. Keffals has done some good work. She's raised a lot of money for trans charities. I don't have to agree with everything she's done or said to admit that and it was unfair of me to characterize her that way. It was also hypocritical of me to be so petty and insulting about someone in the same video where I'd go on to recommend we maybe keep those kind of comments to ourselves. I apologize. I'm actively working on pruning my inner dirtbag. I hope we can move forward and all try to be a bit kinder. ❤🌹

[@rosemulet]

Nah I"m trans, but your critisms on her are completely fair, she makes a bunch of content which calls other trans people predators, and has said lots of "edgy" a.k.a. slurs and other ignorant horrible things with no remourse. Try to correct her, and she'll mock you and respond with hostility.

[@John_The_Ratman]

rose you literally defended a trans woman being raped. the trans woman she called a predator raped someone.

[@RadioZonde]

Eh, ive already unsubbed from this channel. Keffals recent stream reminded me that this channel existed. Its pretty bad to not actually do any research into the people you speak poorly of and then get sad because everyone has seen this video as a "hit piece". Theres a reason for that, you have not viewed any of it with an unbiased look on top of not doing any research either to game the algorithm or (insert a reason here). There was better ways of doing this without contradicting your suggestion of "keeping it in the private chats" while you publicly drag them.

[@bulletsandbracelets4140]

Respect for this. Just remember, and maybe remind those you defend and point out in the video, that we don't have to tear down other communities in order to build ourselves up. It's okay to let other spaces exist. I still think there's a lot of dishonesty in this video, but that always comes down to perspective, so I hope you haven't gotten too much ridiculous outcry for it. There's a meaningful difference between "harassment" and "criticism" - online, sometimes they can feel like the same thing, but they aren't. People who engage with keffals and Vaush often do so dishonestly, using their disagreements to find common ground with other creators, and launching themselves into a large group of noteable creators in the process. I'm not going to say that's 100% what happened with those you reference, but I do know - if a bunch of people showed up in keffals' twitter replies, calling her out for being racist, you wouldn't call it harassment. You would call it criticism and trying to drive her to change and be better. Why is it different when the audiences of other creators disagree? And why is it the fault of those audiences, and those creators, when people like Professor Flowers and Rosalyn choose to engage with these creators and audiences? I think there's a middle ground here that these videos always miss. You can criticize the worst elements of a creator's audience without criticizing the creator. You can allow those of us who cope via humor, the women in Vaush's community who don't mind his jokes, the space to do that. You don't have to tear down our movement - you can run your own alongside and we can meet on all the common ground we do have. There's more of it than not. I'm just tired of being told I'm not on the "left" because I appreciate honesty and don't entirely agree with a small subset of popular minority essayists on an even smaller subset of issues. It's cool you at least apologized for the joke and owned up to some of the criticism you received. I respect people who can do that when it's warranted, and grow and move forward from it. I think the better move is what you said - just ignore the spaces you disagree with and focus on the changes we can make. KZbin would be a better place for it.

[@hootsyoutube]

@@bulletsandbracelets4140 Hey, thanks for the thoughtful response. You gave me some interesting things to think about. I have seen some replies to Keffals in the past that have been awful and I wince a little bit at thinking I've added to that dogpile, even if those particular replies weren't people from my audience. Similarly, I'm sure Vaush hates that his name is constantly trending more than the rest of us do. I sincerely wish that both of them would get better about some things, but being rude to them isn't really a convincing strategy. This video wasn't about them - I recognize that I've brought this upon myself for mentioning their names, but people describing this video as a "hit piece" has been frustrating to say the least, when they weren't even remotely the focus - and I honestly didn't even really think before firing a couple strays in their direction. I am proud of the main ideas I put forth in the video. I think being an ethical dirtbag is a bit of a tightrope walk and we should all be conscious of that if that's the public persona we choose to adopt. But heading into 2024, I'm probably going to avoid commenting on other creators in the leftist space.

[@bbrbbr-on2gd]

"Be vicious to systems, and kind to individuals." - Michael Brooks

[@MiniatureMashUp]

I loved Michael but he was brutal to individuals who championed oppressive systems.

[@Head_Turnah]

He was so funny, man. I miss him.

[@alladinedge]

Rip Michael a real one for sure

[@wywy74]

❤

[@englishlit0171]

Rest in power

[@JohnBainbridge0]

The Marie Antoinette hate reminds me of all the MTG memes. Greene is out there spouting the most mockable nonsense imaginable, but the half the memes just call her ugly. People are also fat-shaming Trump, while he's out there being the silliest fascist in our modern surreality. I'm all for weaponized sarcasm against hilariously horrible people, but not when it comes with bigoted baggage from last century.

[@Jinuku]

Not mocking MTG for her looks is hard mode as she literally looks exactly like her behavior, a shit flinging simian

[@TAOBIAF]

"weaponized sacrasm" some of us are genuinely sarcastic all the time using sarcasm as rhetoric is cringe

[@xBINARYGODx]

how is bigoted that some memes about trump are fat based or some memes regarding MTG are about the lack of attractiveness? can you even show thats most memes? Maybe you can, but no one actually wants you to do that to yourself.

[@archvaldor]

@@TAOBIAF "some of us are genuinely sarcastic all the time" Or "British" , as we call ourselves.

[@pauliohimmel3878]

I’m with you except I think fat shaming Trump is acceptable because he fat shames and, like, doesn’t think he’s fat, I don’t think. It’s not a hill I’m trying to die on though, just a thought.

[@samtheanthro]

I do feel that pull sometimes to say the mean awful highschool level insult about some politician or media figure you don't like. And I have given into it at times, but I also have stared into that abyss and seen the atmosphere quickly dissolve into bigotry/slurs/outright death threats. One of the things that really annoyed me about peoples mockery of Donald Trump is how a lot of them had to go on and on about how fat he was and how many cheeseburgers he ate. And as a fat woman if I ever said "hey can we talk about his awful policies and not be anti-fat?" I was called a wokescold or a fun ruiner. It can be fun at times to be a little dirt baggy, or to say something kind of not pc when I'm being bitchy in a group chat, but at the end of the day I think it takes way more effort and bravery to be sincere and heartfelt about a topic than apathetic and sarcastic

[@LettaLeeJoy]

I definitely feel this. Especially the bit about focusing in on Trump's weight instead of his policies. I've seen a lot of people, even on the left, resort to body shaming when it's targeted at some awful person. It's happened enough where I'll point out that resorting to body shaming in any form- making fun of weight, hair loss, height, etcetera- centers someone's appearance as the offense instead of the things they actually stand for. And therefore attacks people with specific body types instead of the individual with harmful ideas. And they'll respond with this self righteous "I do lots to support ex minority group, I think I deserve to blow off steam." As if checking the right boxes and supporting the right things gives them currency to engage in what's arguably just another form of bigotry. Trump wasn't bad because he's "fat". Trump is bad because of what he's done and wants to do. And I think focusing in on something like weight is ultimately just a form of avoidance.

[@walterk9916]

i feel it more to point out a hypocrisy. trump followers will easily tease a woman for her body while their portly demagogue waddles around unopposed.

[@TrashHeapCustodian]

Same thing with everyone saying Trump and Putin are/were gay for each other Ok folks what's the actual punchline here, cuz it sure seems like the core of your joke isn't "trump sucks" but "it's funny to imagine he is gay because I think being gay is a thing to be mocked" Just call him a fascist dipshit, it's more accurate and doesn't have any collateral damage to marginalized groups! Easy!

[@richardsawicki8521]

Is it still O.K. to mock him for his "Sphagetti/Badger-nest" hair-style or his lumpy noggin when it blows off or his "*tiny* HANDS" or must we consider all the INNOCENT😇 "Bone-Headed" and/or "Diminutive Digeted" that COULD be "caught in the crossfire" and become "Collateral Damage" to our "Barbed Tongues"👅? (and WHAT ABOUT those "Barbed-Tongued?" Sometimes they just CAN'T help themselves and, perhaps 🤷 were BORN THAT WAY !)🤔 I myself AM (self-admittedly) "Barbed-Tongued" and have been fat for about 10 years AS WELL (with the excuse of a back injury that limits my mobility and "emotional eating" MAYBE?) after about 40 "lean years" but I ALSO spent my first 10 or so as a fat kid so I CAN sympathise with the hurt feelings involved in being the butt of "cruel jokes" etc. BUT...GIVEN THE CHOICE - I'd be "in shape" and am NOT "bugged" by whatever some "fat-shaming" FOOL has to say! Suggesting the developement of a "thicker-skin" is most likeley the LAST thing a fat person needs but maybe some "philosophical distance" and the spirit of "giving as good as you get" might be more useful than WALLOWING IN SELF PITY?

[@3zzzTyle]

@@LettaLeeJoyMoral Licensing 101

[@vanirie434]

I also want to add CJ the X to the suggested KZbinrs. I don't know how to explain how CJ makes me feel except. Everything all the time all at once :D

[@ivymuncher]

that bitch (endearing) just makes you feel like ajakdjjabnkdjhbngrkfjnrkhjewnhweiruweriuwerjkfdsvijkewrfdsiukjewrsdfiukjewrdsfiukjewrsjdfksdfa;lkjdsf;kljasdf;lkjasdf;lkjadsjfk;lasd;flkjasdfj

[@kruth_hi]

Love cj the x! I think they’re making a new video sometime in december. The quote money isn’t value, value is value has been bouncing around in my head since i watched the cj video with it

[@PosthumousAddress]

Yes! CJ the X!

[@snark4748]

The only pushback I'd have with the group chat thing is when it can become a very toxic positive feedback loop. Unless you have someone willing to call you out for going too far (which I am noticing few people do), people tend to feel justified in getting nastier with their vents. Personally, during the whole happy times of 2020, I realized how stupidly judgmental I was getting of super minor things that barely affected me. It was only by distancing myself from my usual groups for a lil bit was where I realized how much of a high school romcom bully I was being. Idk, point is, get you a friend who will wholeheartedly call you a moron and then give you a kiss on the forehead afterwards.

[@sourgreendolly7685]

Yes exactly! I think I went high school romcom during 2020 but I'm also used to not leaving home so my reaction was at least partially from a different place. I think seeing the breakdown all over, just really hit me but I've been ignoring that the fact that I'm used to what drives most people a bit nuts and that's probably not good for me as a human-ish thing lol It was cathartic but it snowballed into an unhealthy habit. edit: I should mention my closest friends live similar lives in the sense of being used to staying home and isolated so the positive feedback loop had an external factor for me too.

[@Whitepawprint]

I agree! I completely get where she's coming from on a personal level, it is certainly good for most people not to get involved in online dogpiles generally. I'm not sure it's the best advice for youtubers or content creators though - not that I'm a PR expert or anything. It's certainly not unheard of for DMs or group chat messages to be leaked, even years later when people fall out, and I don't think people tend to give that stuff a pass just because "it was in a group chat". Especially if the topic is an internet dogpile, I imagine you're more likely to have those chats with your content creator friends who understand your joke enough to laugh at it. Even without it being an echo chamber, what if you're TOO messy in your group chats? It kind of relies on you having friends who you CAN make those kinds of jokes with, annnddd that you're making them an appropriate amount, OR that they're willing to tell you to tone it down, annnddd that you're willing/able to take that feedback on board. It's... a lot I guess I don't have a better easy solution for people and I definitely think getting more offline and fostering friendships is broadly good. Buuuuuuttt it's not exactly straight forward, or the right solution for everyone

[@cafesoftie]

Ive also been part of a toxic abusive feedback loop. Avoid toxic y'all. There's plenty of ppl to be friends with!

[@ab8817]

group chat is a bad strategy. this is basically trying to control any criticism or ridicule. she frames it as a "safe space" for your friends, but really is a safe space of anyone who might become a target of criticism. its just a lot of hand wringing about not fully wanting to control your behavior, but just segregate it. kind of a lot of thinking to arrive at basically the same place.

[@hover2go]

​@@ab8817💯 this. There's a dark segment of the left that treats it like a social club. We're here to improve ourselves and the world around us, not circle the wagons around our friends.

[@ThatDangDad]

Really great video. I'm like you - lately i've been really confronting this mean streak in me. I have a nasty little a-hole inside me and it's a lot of work to tamp down that little scamp. My goal in 2024 is to redouble my efforts to build bridges and extend more grace and to be less instantly dismissive of annoying people. I hope other people take your video as an inspiration to do likewise.

[@owenpepper2512]

Came to recommend @ThatDangDad here, and he's already shown why I did ❤

[@literaterose6731]

@@owenpepper2512 I know, right? I did recommend him anyway! And if you read this, Phil, your work always moves and inspires me, for lots of reasons-but most of all because your capacity for empathy and ethical integrity are readily apparent in all of it. Thank you!

[@StuartAtkinson4467]

As a increasingly proud dirtbag left having consumed all the "non dirtbag" videos because I watch both sides being mean is not a harm. This particular overly produced drama video (with a few historical references hamfistedly crammed in around to justify the drama) and many others increasingly solidify my position. More than that though unlike people making these arguments I would direct these "leftists" to do some direct action. Maybe talk to a manual labour worker, someone in an economically deprived area.. like just once. Because what is being classified here is so middle class close to Karen style drivel that it would classify most of the people leftists should be championing as "dirtbag" the irony of such a smug holier than though attitude wrapping itself up as "leftism" is insane. Being mean is not a harm, being mean can be legitimately funny for goodness sake leftism and direct action can include VIOLENCE. If you want to be less mean then fine good for you but this "It's not Liberal civility politics I swear" crap is so annoying because.... It is! Tone policing the "vibe" of leftist rather than their substance IS a problem in a way mean comments NEVER CAN BE!

[@laurelgardner]

​@@StuartAtkinson4467 "Being mean doesn't harm anyone" is definitely the most shit-for-brains take I've seen today.

[@sourgreendolly7685]

⁠​⁠@@StuartAtkinson4467"Mean is not harm" sounds like the way my middle school handled bullying. Those harmed via friendly fire aren't bringing it up to police tone, they're bringing it up as comrades expecting them to care about not harming them. I'm not saying it doesn't go to far, to be clear. I think overall we're in agreement but this is something I've been thinking about a lot lately and I think pretending it's not harmful because we're laughing is refusing to take action within ourselves. There's a balance with that too as people can end up using that as their reason for it not being harmful and don't give people room to grow or get nitpick. It becomes a feedback loop and it's causing problems. tldr; A lot of us, regardless of type of leftist could stand to remember that catharsis can be addictive and it's getting holier than thou through reactionary behavior from a fair chunk of us. We feel a bit better in the moment and the harm stops mattering as much. Apathy isn't helpful on any level in any direction; we need to be mindful of that sort of harm just as much as we need to give people some grace to grow. We need to be more aware of our own responses rather than going to what feels right in that very moment when it comes to callouts and jokes. And/or go [back] to therapy. I'm sure a lot of us need to do that too. It's emotionally exhausting to us all to say the least.

[@Dr_Slash]

Came for videos on The Mummy, stayed for your commie content. The Cummy Pipeline is real.

[@hootsyoutube]

THE CUMMY PIPELINE JGFIJFGDFHDSFSDAF

[@neddles33]

I both hate this and am laughing

[@dliap98]

this comment absolutely floored me

[@searchingfororion]

After hearing the Gandhi episode - which nearly ended me - I realized I knew where to find cummies. (Thanks to an old job - Bachelorette parties are weird). If I could afford things y'all would have had a super weird gift in the mail.

[@HashFace253]

Bro

[@victoriajankowski1197]

I think some people forget there's a difference between refusing to conform to the affects of 'polite society' and purposely seeking to be offensive for the shock value of it are not the same thing.

[@Alex-ph5ir]

Yes! This such a perfect summation of the distinction that many people either miss, or purposely obscure because they want to be able to say crappy (often bigoted) things with impunity.

[@TheReaverOfDarkness]

I think it's not simply that people forget, but rather that there is a massive all-out slander campaign designed to conflate the two. I think without said campaign, they wouldn't even appear similar.

[@michaelmcintyre4690]

Another really good podcast is 5-4. Young, smart, leftist lawyers ripping a new hole in the Supreme Court every week. Not a trace of irony in their incandescent anger.

[@literaterose6731]

Yes, love them! Excellent recommendation 👍🏽

[@SECONDQUEST]

Great rec!

[@the_exegete]

Oh wow, thanks for posting this. Last I looked they were putting out a podcast whenever without a schedule. Love those guys, glad to know there's lots more slop in the trough.

[@elephantshell3617]

One of the hosts there Peter Samshari has another podcast “If Books Could Kill” that reviews terrible airport books (think The Secret). It’s one of my favorite current podcasts and so funny.

[@aliu292]

I really like Your Wrong About

[@Personal_Chizo]

What I get out of this is that I should just listen to The Adam Friedland Show every single day.

[@MrTooEarnestOnline]

Yeah. Same. Love cumtown, fuck the redscare

[@bisexualmajima]

Exactly. Also I'm gay.

[@rubberlover666]

Just had a discussion about this with a friend this past weekend regarding a mutual friend who, in the past few years, reinvented their personality from "non-existent" to "the most PC woke scold of the right's fevered imagination", and how we both had to mute them on all socials because, while we agree 100% with their points of view, it was getting harder and harder to not just say some wild shit at them because they are just that annoying. But we agreed that we'd much rather deal with a million people like that than a polite advocate of genocide.

[@dinosaysrawr]

In a pinch, I absolutely agree! And, while we're playing "Would You Rather," in that same vein, I'd much rather deal with a true-blue ally who is a bit salty or rough around the edges than the person who presents outwardly as nice, civil, and woke and says all the right things while being duplicitous, vindictive, callous, hateful, and mean. Some of the nastiest people I've known have been absolute masters at HR-speak, woke-speak, and/or spiritual lingo!

[@TheYpurias]

Kind of the opposite of what the video's about.

[@loneshine]

@@dinosaysrawri also think this video was well-intentioned but deeply off-base. Like, maybe she just didn’t have time to do the homework so she copied from the class wokescold.

[@laurelgardner]

@@loneshine why are you replying here? You comment has nothing to do with the one above.

[@dinosaysrawr]

@@loneshine , it's what most people do and have done on this topic! Also, just in general, ragging on identified people disliked or disavowed by your group is how you show your in-group membership and loyalty. Streamers and their fans do it, essayists and their fans do it, liberals do it, Leftists do it, conservatives do it, birds do it, bees do it, and even educated fleas do it! But, credit where it's due, it's been a while since I've seen any Breadtubers or their fans cite or make criticisms based on the compilation of out-of-context Vaush clips compiled by that one Neo-Nazi.

[@LisaBeergutHolst]

10:53 Can't believe they didn't go with "Sailor Marx"

[@WanderWoman120]

Adding to the podcast recs with Some More News/Even More News. Also any project Robert Evans does is worth a listen!

[@ryouhonoo5]

Don’t fall for Robert Evans’s shtick, dude is a fed.

[@jakestrider3565]

What makes him a fed? (I am genuinely curious/feel like I missed something)

[@ahlishaholloway233]

I am a longtime fan of Robert Evans work, and all of his stuff seems worlds apart from the useful Breadtube/ Streamer nonsense. I suspect that's because he's a journalist at heart, and has pretty extensive experience on the front lines of the issues he talks about.

[@SaxtonFail]

​​@@jakestrider3565he's said in the past that he's worked with feds before, I think giving them info to help spot nazis online. And YMMV on how questionable/fed connected Bellingcat is, but he's done work for them before

[@roydykens7376]

Robert Evans was invented by Langley to combat the rising popularity of Brace Brace "Racial Jake" Belden who did the very un PC thing and went and killed Isis guys with a machine gun instead of crying about a broken finger and making a boring ass podcast about smoking cigarettes with border cops in Rojava.

[@katiek2615]

I thought this was an announcement of an abusive asshole leaving and I was SO WORRIED for her safety for a second

[@Wexdarn]

Oooooh can see what you mean

[@softwaifu]

SAME

[@winterzealot]

lmao

[@funkie1221]

I was about to comment that. Language is funny

[@zowzow6640]

Same

[@katieboucher7994]

I absolutely love the content Ro Ramdin puts out! She has a bit where when introducing people she roasts them, getting out all that dirtbag leftist energy. The rest of the video is spent very thoughtfully and artistically fleshing out her arguments, with sincere critique and clear goals or questions:)

[@LittleHerdaz]

Ro is so amazing, she always makes me cry with laughter or cheer when she is in that mode and I love it ❤

[@nuntiuslibera]

Ro is the best recommendation here. She's clever enough to make me rewatch whole sections of videos for things i missed n sincere enough to draw out deep introspection regularly.

[@transsexual_computer_faery]

she's not a dirtbag. her roasts are sharp as hell. not "X is mentally ill and ugly"

[@tubulartom666]

I think Ro is an amazing video maker. They are clearly extremely creative and express it well. I haven’t seen their videos in a while but I think that’s just my recommended page lacking. Anyway, do you think criticizing and hating on a person before sharing that persons POV is poisoning the well? Do you think it would be more good faith to crap ok them after sharing the persons opinions?

[@goldensloth7]

yesss

[@iamjustkiwi]

Here on youtube the "well theres your problem" podcast is 2 leftist guys and a gal who are genuinely very caring talking about engineering disasters and sometimes other stuff. Theres a good bit of black humour but generally they are pro humanity and not super cynical. For podcasts there's trashfuture where they discuss...why the future is trash? They cover all kinds of topics like shitty startups, bad government policy, world events and other random stuff. Both of those podcasts have frequent cool guests ranging from fellow comedians to professionals in their fields and everything in between, and they also have overlap in one of their hosts.

[@maisieavis2712]

I've learned over time that using vulgarity to package your beliefs is a tightrope that most people aren't equipped to walk. It can wash away the messaging. It's kinda like when people swear all the time to be shocking or edgy, but like, is it shocking if that's the norm you're presenting? The intention becomes diluted. Leftist ideology as a core surrounded by a coating of vulgarity becomes a core of vulgarity surrounded by a coating of leftist ideology. Fantastic video btw, you're just a lil hoot but you're a fantastic lil hoot

[@SECONDQUEST]

I swear all the time mostly because I've done the bad thing and replaced "uh" with "fukk"

[@menschgebliebenergossenpar9213]

Thats a pretty long sentence for telling us that you have no bite. If the right threatens you with a rifle, you gonna try to talk them out of puttin hol3s in ya?

[@ladyweirdo6035]

I feel like it's super dependant on the audience listening.

[@CuriousKey]

@@menschgebliebenergossenpar9213 Being vulgar isn't the same as fighting, or having "bite". You're literally equating talk with walk here in the most direct, blunt manner possible.

[@calvinware7957]

​@@menschgebliebenergossenpar9213lmao bro how you speak is not a reflection of if someone is armed or not. I can be kind and give my right wing neighbor a bowl to eat when their hungry and yet still draw on them if they pull a rifle on me.

[@Frenzywonder]

"The part of me that is mean and sardonic is probably never going to be fully excised, but she can be pruned and tamed." This one hits close 💀

[@c.andrew3944]

I HATE INTROSPECTION. I HATE INTROSPECTION. I HATE INTROSPECTION.

[@StuartAtkinson4467]

​@@c.andrew3944Introspection = Good Purity testing = Bad Puritanicalism = Shows literally zero overlap with the lower classes Virtue signalling = NOODLES

[@transsexual_computer_faery]

moood

[@sourgreendolly7685]

@@c.andrew3944hey now! INTRO means inside voice 🤫😂

[@beethovenjunkie]

As a messy bitch from a messy town, it's always hard for me to choose kindness over a funny dunk, but I think your point about leftism being about building a better world for everyone is incredibly important to keep in mind. Also, like, being an adult is about building up a tolerance for annoying people in my opinion. Also also, your make-up was incredible, as always.

[@StuartAtkinson4467]

As someone who is invested in substance over friend groups and who has actually lived in areas affected by right wing economics some people are dicks and will always remain so they still need rights and actually *gets close to whisper* the most intense manual labour low class people quite enjoy offensive jokes and are pissed off by the middle class prissy left acting like they've ever experienced suffering of any kind.

[@matthiasmccormack3213]

I am genuinely so impressed by your Twitter apology to Keffals. Genuinely can’t think of another creator who would’ve apologized about that

[@nixandthem]

I feel that it's particularly important and useful to examine the distinction between forms of vulgarity based on what it is pushing back on: it is a very different thing to behave in a way that offends an established and potentially harmful social system or set of norms, versus to, for example, deliberately flaunt requests to be kind to someone who is struggling, just to be edgy. I can't imagine any reasonable argument for taking seriously the hand-wringing of those who are deeply invested in a given status quo of society simply because it's how things are or how things are 'supposed to be done', but insensitivity can also cause very real harm. The issue with vulgarity must be framed with reference to what or who stands to be harmed, and how. I can certainly respect a degree of nuance in the grey area between the extremes I mentioned. People who abuse significant power and/or privilege, or in some cases other people who go out of their way to make choices which cause harm themselves, can be more justifiably handled with vulgar and insensitive responses. Bigots don't deserve respect and consideration past a point-- not always, anyway, not as an expectation. It's just also worth recognizing who the real targets end up being, depending how that's approached-- attacking 45 for being fat actually mostly being an insult to fat people, for example. But vulgarity itself can be a powerful tool for change. Normalization of vulgarity is a normalization of the questioning of the established social order and way of things, which is the first step to realizing things can change and become better, that the rules we live by are, in many cases, arbitrary and oppressive. So let's be vulgar, friends, and do so with love and irreverent, messy, yet thoughtful rebellion in our hearts. Thanks for this video. Yours is an important voice in this conversation. Thanks for helping me confront reductive expectations of civility while tempering impulses toward thoughtlessness. Cheers. -N

[@Zeathian]

*Recommends KiraChat aka BadBunny* You were on the verge of greatness. You were so close !

[@theycallmemagic]

Im in love with Big (and little) Joels content, sincere thoughtful in ways that go beyond what we see most of the time and so delightfully funny.

[@transsexual_computer_faery]

i find him to be quite rude. such as mocking people for being bald.

[@hipsterbrigadier9428]

@@transsexual_computer_faery I’m balding and whatever, it’s fine 😂

[@ConvincingPeople]

Shoutout to It Could Happen Here, a five-days-a-week anarchist current events podcast hosted by many of the folks responsible for Behind the Bastards among other things, which manages to walk the line between compassionate sincerity and profane pitch-black humour seemingly effortlessly. The shitposter energy is off the charts, particularly with Garrison Davis.

[@JMOP1715]

Hell yeah!!!

[@jospinner1183]

Seconded. Black humor and compassion are absolutely not mutually exclusive.

[@amazin7006]

@@jospinner1183 anarchist and compassion definitely are though

[@jospinner1183]

@@amazin7006 What the heck are you even talking about? Why would anarchism be mutually exclusive with compassion? Have you ever _met_ an anarchist?

[@amazin7006]

​@@jospinner1183 You cannot be compassionate when you want a world with no order. That is antithetical to the goals of any compassionate person. Also I don't want to meet any anarchist ,they are all smelly basement dwellers

[@Jinuku]

Hasanabi seems to exist in a hyperposition of being both incredibly sincere and patient with his audience and also an absolute dirtbag shitposter

[@vitaminwater9662]

That's why people think when he makes a hyperbolic joke that he's actually being sincere. He's in a weird situation lol

[@porcelaingiant2965]

omg Hasan is sooooooo boring to watch

[@alexgallagher4594]

Hasan is a fucking tankie lol

[@thalesanastacio760]

Calling Hasanabi patient and sincere must be the most ironic shit i've seen be said about him in a while.

[@vitaminwater9662]

@@thalesanastacio760 you haven't seen more than a couple "bad" clips of him guaranteed based on the channels you follow, you would probably like hasan if you didnt just go along with the groupthink about him

[@Fenikagegami]

The idea that ThoughtSlime isn’t irony poisoned is wild to me. I’m a fan of ThoughtSlime, loved their “Know Your Fasc” series. Mildred’s vid on ADHD was phenomenal and helped my wife understand me. That’s why I’m sad to say, Mildred’s videos have really fallen off for me. The sincerity has just eroded to the point that it’s hard to figure out what they’re saying at times. The video on Art was so infuriatingly condescending at some points I had to stop are start a few times before I was able to get to the sincerity in the vid that saved it for me. And any time Mildred talks about men’s issues, the condescension they drown their videos in makes it damn near impossible for anyone to grant them the frankly massive amount of charity they need to believe they aren’t openly mocking men for their problems. Which is ThoughtSlime’s biggest problem with their modern content, you have to be extremely familiar with Mildred’s content to decipher what’s a joke and what isn’t. And honestly, given how way more of the Men issues videos are spent being condescending, I have to come to the conclusion that at best, Mildred doesn’t find Men’s issue worthy of their attention. Like they seem to think they are a back-burner issue rather than, you know, the material conditions that drive men towards violence and the Far-Right in the first place.

[@aquatictrotsky1067]

A quick note that I share to call-in rather than call-out, as a lot of people do this without understanding the implications of it: when you say that you consider "empathy the default state of humanity", I encourage you to replace "empathy" with "compassion" in that statement. People use the terms interchangeably, but they're different: "compassion" is what refers to the ability to think and/or act with consideration for the needs of others, whereas empathy refers to either: 1) the involuntary reaction of feeling certain emotions in response to someone else's emotions (emotional empathy), or 2) the ability to understand what another person is most likely thinking or feeling in a given situation without needing to be explicitly told (cognitive empathy, or as it's sometime referred to: "mindreading"). Lacking either (or both) forms of empathy doesn't preclude a person from being able to act compassionately (nor does the lack of either/both necessarily mean that someone doesn't care about other people's feelings, just that they may need additional support in order to understand those feelings), and the conflation leads to a lot of neurodivergent people (e.g. those with ASPD or alexithymia) being unjustly demonized. t. your friendly neighborhood autist

[@asocksual4910]

Yes, thank you!! Very well said

[@btarczy5067]

My view of the dirtbag/„tenderqueer“* struggle is that we should be gentle wherever we can and especially with those who need it but maintain the edge for when it’s needed as well. Not everyone needs to be edgy or excel on the attack but some do. Being at least a bit edgy is a kind of emotional self-defense but yeah, it’s important not to lose one’s values in defensiveness. *Not my intention to attack anyone, just the word I‘ve seen most commonly used in this context

[@StuartAtkinson4467]

Got to say a nice comment I'll try but I'm currently raging at this topic for its: 1) Misrepresenting the imagined not even false dichotomy 2) Having grown up in an economically deprived/manual Labour area the alienation of EVERYONE that prissy leftism is supposed to support is annoying as fuck 3) This video barely toys with an argument and makes strawmen of the people referenced 4) The Prof Flowers "oppressed groups should be able to ethnically cleanse" debauchery is especially tone deaf to bring up as Israel is using that exact premise to mask their ethnonationalism. 5) Some people just aren't gentle, in fact some people have it ground out of them by life and jokes are not just "Being edgy" it's who they are there is no harm 6) More and more "dirtbag" as a term is being used directly in the Liberal way of civility politics to shut down the same stuff and as an elitist bar to people who aren't presentable you can see it with the style over substance of overly produced video essays that are rather than focusing substance with examples are referencing people and drama and hamfistedly cramming topics in afterwards

[@btarczy5067]

@@StuartAtkinson4467 I agree with much of what you’re saying but in the end decided against going with a confrontational comment. Vaush and Keffals in particular are misrepresented a lot and sanitized, purist leftism clearly doesn’t work out. Maybe I’m just tired of having this discussion. The Professor Flowers thing is so infantilizing that it makes me a bit sick, to be honest. So many people just don’t seem to care at all about what she said while presenting themselves as the alliest of allies. What I’d like to add to my point about being gentle, kind, whatever… What I sometimes see is people being coddled and to me that is abuse. Making someone depend on your validation is not kindness, quite the opposite. Felt like that point was missing the most in my comment.

[@c.andrew3944]

I have to remind myself, "Be kind to individuals, be ruthless to systems." as the late great Michael Brooks said. That applies to people within institutions/systems, too. Be kind to your shithead boss, save every email, and focus on destroying them with union power, mediation, and other HR legalese. Arguably, that's more effective but less fun. I dunno, knowing that you gained power as a worker while keeping your hands and mind clean shows others looking in that communism is actualy made up of good people trying to fix shit not just wannabe comedians. Do the work. Then tell the jokes.

[@c.andrew3944]

And like, to be clear, I learned this through failure and making people feel bad and learning when to hold your tongue - it's natural and it hurts to reflect on thy own cringe but that's why you gotta be kind to people.

[@BoboftheOldeWays]

This. The thing that frustrates me the most about the streamers vs essayists cycle is the lack of a systemic analysis. From both ends, it always deteriorates into a referendum on the character of individuals & a focus on accountability, rather than any strategies for fighting the algorithms driving all this.

[@nuntiuslibera]

That Michael Brooks bit is probably the quote/the idea that comes up most often when im talking with people about political efficacy. u make a lot of sense here

[@Wiklina616]

Kira chats? AKA Bad Bunny? WHAT? The person that said she would throw up at the sight of black/bisexual man? Yes, great recommendation.

[@mikeyahl7363]

I've been arguing the same point for hours in this comment section. It's bewildering to me how people like Kira/Bunny can be on record doing objectively sussy stuff, but somehow stay big in the Leftie sphere while creators like Vaush, Xanderhal, Keffals, & Shark get sh¡t on for calling out that exact problem.

[@Wiklina616]

@@mikeyahl7363 And let’s not forget DJ Muel. Also it would maybe good to point out that „women start apologizing challenge” quote, while really easy to be taken out of context, in context was tweeted at JK Rowling. So, despite the quote itself being stupid, shouldn’t we also take it as an example of taking down a peg an objectively bad billionaire that uses her unlimited resources to make bad impact on lives of trans people? I swear I sometimes think that leftists are more concerned with optics of being nice and respectful instead of pointing out wrongs in the world.

[@mikeyahl7363]

@@Wiklina616 You are *EXACTLY* spot on.

[@thornwych]

He didn't actually tweet it at her though, she found it because she was searching her own name

[@mikeyahl7363]

@@thornwych Another good point.

[@miisskaylaa]

Is recommending Cool Zone Media projects too dirtbag-y? I really enjoy the It Could Happen Here Pod for break downs of current and past events. Especially when Andrewism has a segment. Cool People Who Do Cool Stuff is also great. In Bed With The Right is another podcast I think is fantastic and I don't remember that being dirtybag-y at all. OH! and You're Wrong About is just *chef's kiss* cant wait to give all these other pod recommendations a listen :)

[@literaterose6731]

Big yes! I somehow managed to miss In Bed with the Right (gonna fix that posthaste), but I looooove all the others you mentioned. Cool People is especially apt to the theme of this video!

[@rebirthoflegend4797]

Would probably recommend Know Your Enemy as a sincere left podcast. Matt Bruenig's content is also really good, although he doesn't update his youtube too much. He's currently representing some Louder with Crowder employee for labor violations and retaliation, which is funny AF.

[@chairmanmeow958]

I had a feeling this was satire, my suspicion was confirmed when at the end you described KiraChats as “very good” and “kind”.

[@errrkt]

only trouble is she also recommended LumieRue and Lucidfox who are both actually very good and kind.

[@chairmanmeow958]

True, Lucidfox and Lumi are both very kind people with content that is worth checking out for sure. @@errrkt

[@jefferyjones8399]

I highly recommend Zoe Bee for a sincere KZbinr who is on the left but isn’t exclusively about leftist politics

[@ianmcleary6822]

Her Andrew Tate video is hot garbage, trying to analyze books he’d “written” that even the comments proved were ghost written was mega cringe.

[@taanwallbanks9841]

​@@ianmcleary6822the point is a Tate fan wouldn't know that and probably also wouldn't really care, since the words are Andrew Tate approved. Analyzing the content of the books is definitely more productive

[@cambriakilgannon12]

When all you think about is how people are bad, you start to see the worst in everyone.

[@KaiDelmare]

i had to go to church when i went to catholic school and i enjoyed it because lunch was usually after and it was during class time so it meant i could eat disgusting wafers instead of learning addition and subtraction. great video.

[@the1truejoe178]

I find that contrapoints is a “thoughtful intellectual” who really wants to be a leftist dirtbag, but just keeps the grungy edgy comedy to twitter.

[@PoeticPoppa]

I too appreciate the rough, yet classy M O U T H F E E L of Contrapoints.

[@notmychairnotmyproblem]

If only she would move past her beef with JK Rowling. That got stale really fast.

[@ladygrey4113]

Ehh she’s more a centrist, that wants to be seen as a dirtbag intellectual.

[@Emilio1985]

@@notmychairnotmyproblem Kind of weird to reduce that to "beef" when Joanne is actively trying to eliminate people like Natalie.

[@theycallmemagic]

Why does nobody talk about the MOUTHFEEL@@PoeticPoppa

[@happygucci5094]

I had to suffer through Michelle Obama’s Neo liberal disingenuousness to see where this is going… the disappointment I feel towards the Obamas hurts in a very unique way. As a 43yo black working class woman - the betrayal I feel towards the Obamas is next level… The Lacrimosa was the perfect choice- I know this is gonna go IN!!!!

[@LoZander]

That sounds awful. I don't know much about the Obamas, other than that people are pretty disillusioned over them. It must have been like watching a hero turn villain. That kind of stuff does hurt in a very specific way

[@happygucci5094]

@@LoZander very much like that. It was the having the hope of everything that they represented in the collective consciousness of racialized people shattered in their siding with the policies and principals of our historic oppressors- however this proves the spurious nature of a monolithic “ Black consciousness” - they were operating within the system- change did NOT come to America. Or to be he global political discourse.😔

[@LoZander]

@@happygucci5094 damn. I see. That sounds awful. I really hope that change comes to America some day soon. I'm not gonna lie, it seems really awful over there sometimes. Not that everywhere else is perfect, ofc. It's likely I'm blind to a lot of issues where I live, as I'm a white guy from the upper-middle class. But I also believe there are people in America who want it to be better and who fight for it. So there is hope.

[@happygucci5094]

@@LoZander we all need some hope right now - I couldn’t agree more. Thank you for your thoughtful and empathetic response. 🙏🏽😊

[@comcat8524]

Jamie Loftus is actually part of an anarchist podcasting group called cool zone media and it's a goldmine of really funny educational leftist content. I REALLY recommend behind the bastards, that podcast practically raised me

[@alecholderfield]

Big points to the algorithm for suggesting this to me. I was having a convo with some friends abt our "dirtbag leftness" and its effectiveness a couple months ago. Lot's of personal reevaluation, and this vid really reinforced a lot of that stuff. 10/10. Stoked to dig into the rest of your work.

[@DrZaius3141]

Don't know about "dirtbag", but I feel sometimes inappropriate language is the appropriate response to convey the stakes. I won't be civil towards bigots when I know that targets of their hatred might be within earshot and would feel perhaps a tiny bit safer knowing that not everyone will appease the hatemongers.

[@Jane-oz7pp]

Nobody said you have to be nice. But dirtbag leftists think using slurs is the same as telling someone they're a moron.

[@StuartAtkinson4467]

Thank you faith restored a little in substance over style. This is a drama video with "argument" loosely jammed around it. If she just supplied the argument (as I was hopeful for in the first half) I was going to go "Finally some potential points". But this is twitter drama made to look like critique just tone policing and liberal civility politics. The Prof Flowers reference is particularly tone deaf as Israel is currently abusing a historically oppressed minority identity in their project for an ethnostate. The exact thing Vaush was arguing against Prof Flowers about as for the Noodles are racist thing..... I mean it's as insane as it sounds just Google the Keffals Noodles shit and look at what it's about. The more this purity testing stuff comes out the more I'm convinced that abandoning all language based considerations is best. In a world of real harms, war and economic suffering mean words is almost dropping off the map for me

[@Darkchipper07]

I found it funny that she praised thought slime, who spread the lie that Xanderhal (a smaller content creator) had a sex cult and to my knowledge has yet to apologize. That's nanners.

[@Skinnybalto]

@@Darkchipper07 also he was only like 19 when thought slime accused him of that, but people never want to talk about how fucked up it was for a man in his thirties to accuse a literal teenager of leading a sex cult. Sometimes the double-standards in the online left really worry me.

[@Darkchipper07]

@@Skinnybalto I forgot about that.... That's crazy.

[@LettaLeeJoy]

So before I even start the video, I just want to say, after the whole James Somerton fiasco, it's really refreshing to come to content creators with integrity. I won't go too into it here, but I was- as a late bloomer queer trying to learn about queerness and atone/heal from my homophobic past- very affected and disappointed by what Somerton did. And it's nice to look around and see content creators like you and Caelan and Mandy and others in the face of that. So thank you for being what I need right now. Ok, actually starting the video now.

[@sarahcristina4656]

Which James Somerton fiasco?

[@emilejetzer7657]

Do you have 4 hours?

[@ninawth]

@@emilejetzer7657 Or even more! Todd in the Shadows released a video that one could see as a sort of addendum to Hbomberguy's. It's called "I Fact-Checked The Worst Video Essayist On KZbin". Where Hbomb focused on plagiarism, Todd focuses on James' outright lies. And it's less than 2 hours long!

[@LettaLeeJoy]

@sarahverissimo1646 The tldr is he's one of the worst plagiarists this site has ever seen and he just got completely exposed.

[@PosthumousAddress]

Also here after the Somerton scandal. The algorithm is in turmoil, good for smaller better creators (munecat is good too)

[@davyhotch]

For Edgier left comedy I do like Trashfuture podcast and Well There's Your Problem. The latter is pretty educational if you can deal with industrial 'accident' descriptions.

[@Archaeologyhat]

Both of these benefit from being at least in theory about something that’s not just current events - even if both have regular current event tangents.

[@mynamehappy]

Also, I know its Chapo adjacent, but I would seriously recommend Matt Christman's solo work. Guy's brain is like a steel trap for history, and he does an interesting job connecting things. He tends to be a bit more thoughtful when he isn't bouncing off of Will and Felix too.

[@christopheraustin643]

Love his Cushvlogs. Matt fully subsuming himself to a politics of love and connection

[@0ptimuscrime]

My man has been in hospital recently. Wishing our large uncle a speedy recovery

[@zoeywitz6884]

Christman is a very smart man. I enjoy his solo streams a lot.

[@zainmudassir2964]

I would but he's hospitalised and may never make content again.

[@mynamehappy]

@@zainmudassir2964 Yeah :( I really hope he recovers. I'm sure he would disagree, but I genuinely think he is one of the greatest Marxist thinkers of our time.

[@gjhartist3685]

Vuash is a pariah, but he does do some good work. Things like rallying viewers to do canvassing for important state elections, and before that he was among the left leaning "debate bros" that helped crush the right's "facts and logic." Leftist KZbin essayists should be able to have nuanced takes on leftist streamers. Vulgarity aside like 90% of their politics overlap. :/

[@nate.draws.things]

The video essayist crowd simply doesn't care. They want to be up on their high horse because some people on the left don't *vibe* with them. It's the same as it's always been - too many people wanna treat the movement like a social club.

[@SkyBlade79]

That's respectability politics for you. Doesn't matter what you say or do: if you say things in a "mean" way then you become irreedemable Vaush should also get some credit for driving a lot of young men to the left in a way that "wokescolds" just can't do. That's real coalition building

[@Skinnybalto]

Between the canvassing and the fundraising for Ukraine he’s done more real world good than most bread-tubers ever will. I can understand why people dislike him, he doesn’t have the most likable personality, but I’ve never seen a hit-piece on him that even TRIES to acknowledge any of the good he’s done

[@Dave102693]

@@Skinnybaltothe left doesn’t even like Ukraine lol

[@nathandrake5544]

@@richardarriaga6271 And now she just complains about "tankies," defends transmedicalists, and lies about people she doesn't like

[@AgJn87]

Waiting for your podcast episode on Kissinger 👀

[@joshua-we9xr]

I used to be a Teenage Dirtbag, but then i grew up and became just a Dirtbag... Baby.

[@lyricbot8513]

come listen to iron maiden maybe (at a concert venue without seats, of course)

[@goldensloth7]

with meeeeee, oooo-ooo-wee-ooo-oo-oo@@lyricbot8513

[@Emilio1985]

I love Ponderful's channel. Never would've considered her adjacent to sh*tposting, though, but I can kinda see it now.

[@deaddomain]

Here because of Caelen, loved this video and I think I found my new channel obsession

[@VultRoos]

It's kind of rough, because from my perspective, what you touched on in the beginning scratches at why civility politics can be so suffocating and vile. Civility can be used to hide some of the most despicable shit ever, and it's harder to attack them because that same civility can be used as a manipulative weapon to both misinform people, and as a weapon against genuine criticisms. There's definitely a point where dirtbag politics can also be used to hide vile shit, but in my experience, it's easier to suss them out within the left. For example. Luna Oi. Her politics are bad. I'm not going to attack her character, because that's not important and i don't give a shit unless she's done something truly vile. but damn, does she repeatedly platform misinformation and celebrate anti-leftist groups while trying to frame them as leftist. And then, intentionally malicious or not, because Asian leftists are still not very visible on certain platforms, Luna Oi leans into the idea that she represents a Vietnamese perspective WAY more than she actually does. Again, I can't speak to her intentions, and some of it is also inevitably not her fault. But she leans into it. In that situation, civility politics becomes EXTREMELY DANGEROUS, EVEN SUFFOCATING, to other Vietnamese and Asian leftists. Because now, on top of being Asian and leftist, which is already incredibly tenuous, even dangerous in certain parts of the West, there's now the added burden for people like me to have to undo her bad information. And it cascades, because while Luna Oi is not very visible, there are certain *coughcoughtankiecough* white leftists who can now do the equivalent of "I have a black friend" with Luna Oi, and anytime Luna is criticized, they can use civility politics to ignore the actual arguments and frame it as 'harassing an asian woman'. In this case, dirtbag politics is not helpful because it lends itself to be easily manipulated for those framing. It's one thing that really frustrates me about Vaush. While he's not the most knowledgeable person about Asian leftism compared to people who actually study this shit, he is frustratingly, one of the most knowledgeable ones on the internet left, at least amongst anyone who is visible. It actually pains me to say this, because I do wish it wasn't the case. It's at the very least, embarrassing, that I as an Asian leftist has to watch people like Vaush to stumble in pushing back against oversimplifying Asian political histories over and over again, and still somehow end up being the most conscientious and compassionate leftist doing so by the end of it. Professor Flowers. Feels like a similar goddamn thing, but I am much less educated on that. The Vaush and Flowers debate was incredibly frustrating, and part of it IS because Vaush's brand of dirtbag leftist attitude simply cannot engage in a productive conversation with someone like Professor Flowers. What stood out to me in that debate was that a lot of her ideas clearly came from a very deeply personal and traumatic experience. Experiences that are 100% valid, but also has no place being projected onto topics that are fundamentally separate from her personal issues. She deserves empathy and compassion, but her ideas are not leftist, or she has done a horrible job representing them. That is legitimate criticism. It is not intentionally misunderstanding her to point that out. Civility politics isn't dangerous just because libs do it. There are reasons why it can be so effective in shutting down genuine attempts to critique, and the harmful parts of it can happen in any circle. The problem with dirtbag leftism though is that it also lends itself to be used very easily to actually empower the worst parts of civility politics by creating a villain. The solution is to get a lot more diversity in these internet political types, but until then, there will always be a part of me that is both frustrated by people like Vaush and enormously relieved at the same time. And the relief wins out. When I first immigrated to the U.S., one thing became pretty clear pretty fast. Politically, Chinese people are a tool conservatives like to use without getting any feedback or permission. There are legitimate complex historical traumas that conservative talking heads take from us. They butcher and warp and misrepresent that history in a cultural and political war against both liberalism and leftism while characterizing both as the same thing. But because the mainstream connection between China and communism/leftism is so strong and predominant, there were legitimately huge swathes of leftists who defined themselves by simply going against the main narrative without bringing any curiosity or nuance to it themselves. And let's be honest, it's the leftists, not the liberals, who did this. Just like the right wing, those leftists also treated Chinese Immigrants as less than human by assuming (instead of trying to engage in any honest conversations) that whatever the opposite thing the conservatives say about China and the Chinese state must be true. And because the Chinese state are also big on disinformation, a huge swathe of the online left routinely denied atrocities and human rights violations from places like China. Most didn't even do it maliciously. A few bad actors talked like they knew what they were saying, and acted confident. And people getting into leftism had no reason to not believe it. There were almost no Asian leftists in online circles because why would anyone who had to deal with an entire lifetime of China silencing history take a look at people minimizing the great leap forwards famine and say, 'yeah, I definitely want to do this again and join these people'. And anyone who WOULD say anything immediately got shot down for being racist or pro-colonialist, even though the most vocal people saying that didn't listen to a single Asian leftist their entire life. They were people who both defined themselves in opposition to anything the right said, while also internalized racism against Asian people because again, let's be honest, they probably didn't have a lot of actual Chinese immigrants in their lives. So from the perspective of at least one Chinese American immigrant, both leftists and conservatives saw Asian people as less than human. The few times I went online to look up leftism in U.S. made me feel disgusted and doomer-pilled. Until Vaush. I can't speak to other areas, but at least where Chinese leftism is concerned, he and others like him made the entire online leftist space feel so much safer. Because no one else said any shit that improved things, because it was polite not to. Or they kept it in private group chats. There were few Asian American leftists, so why make any of it public? And that attitude obviously perpetuates the idea for at least someone like me, that American leftism is either racist towards Asians, or/and sees us as no more human than conservatives. It HAD to be a person like Vaush who could possibly make these spaces more tolerable. And he is still frustrating to watch whenever something like a professor flowers or contrapoints situation happens. I'm still shocked and furious he literally sent people to harass contra. Because situations like that actually make it difficult to point at people hiding their awful ideas behind civility politics. tldr, I still don't think the Professor Flowers situation is anyone intentionally misunderstanding black nationalism. She just represented it very poorly. Framing it as a black woman getting harassed is also the definition of toxic civility politics. At the same time, the aesthetic of dirtbag leftism can actually make that worse. But they can get the ball rolling in making leftist spaces actually leftist, instead of stanning colonizers accidentally just to be oppositional to the American Right. So until leftist spaces actually becomes much more diverse, they are doing a lot more good than the polite leftists out there.

[@skippykay599]

Leftist nursing student about to graduate and this is really validating to me. Out in the world while volunteering or at school or work, I have to put up with people with differing political views, bite my tongue, and go about my day. Being part of the dirtbag left online is one thing, but you have to be careful about it when out in the world. I live in a majority conservative area but I volunteer at a botanical garden and will be treating patients in this community. If I were to call shit as I see it like so many leftists do online, it would work directly against both my volunteering and career. As I grew up more I grew out of my dirtbag left phase, mostly because I could do more for my community by moving past it. And ultimately, I think I’ve grown as a leftist for the better because of this.

[@gurkenhamster]

I'd like to recommend "RevLeft Radio". That podcast has been around for quite a while and it's actually not focussed much on humour at all, let alone the dirtbag kind, but offers very engaging and digestible interviews on political theory and history. It's especially good if you're looking for solutions that go beyond "vote for some candidate or something idk", like old Chapo used to and Frost apparently is still stuck in.

[@MutualMischief]

I would also recommend the KZbin channel "Prolekult" in this vein (they also have a podcast, episodes are on their Patreon but they are free). They have a series of shorter (15 - 20 mins) vids in their series "Approaching Marxism" that may be a good starting point. Their doc "A Dying Culture" is probably their best imo, it's three and a half hours long but they have split it down into smaller vids also. From the description: "A Dying Culture: The End of Postmodernity is a feature-length Marxist documentary looking at culture, art, postmodernism, video games, data, social media, the state and war in context of the largest crisis in capitalism's history." www.youtube.com/@Prolekult

[@PC42190]

@@MutualMischiefagree

[@aiden.e.f]

as a fellow former Florida girlie now living in a big city, love your videos and the “respect the dead” podcast 💗you and Caelan Conrad keep me going

[@ofanichan]

I guess you could call me a "dirtbag left" enjoyer of some kind, so while I disagree with your framing of some of the people you mentioned in this video. I'm not gonna talk too much about it, simply cuz I don't feel me doing that will fit the general vibe going on rn. But I will add this, like, it's entertaining. For sure. Us on the left don't have too much content to enjoy, since 95% of the left-leaning content creators are video essayists, so sitting around waiting for a 2 hour video to be released every 4 months is, extremely boring. So sometimes watching streamers can be highly entertaining and keep you up with news you've missed out on. I do suggest it if you are ever bored. I 100% agree with the keep it in the group chat mantra tho, haha. It's always the best option. (Just make sure that the one you're talking about isn't also in the group chat... I have burned myself on that in the past)

[@RusselCS]

my friend group is basically all-online, we met through online gaming and i've maintained this same friend group for almost 15 years it's because of this friend group that i've been able to dodge a lot of social media apps, even if said friend groups are hosted on ephemeral chat apps like skype and now discord (even if discord tries to bill itself as social media, i use it as a group chat engine) regardless, can confirm that venting about controversial topics to close friends can be helpful. sometimes they push back in a way that helps you examine why you feel the way you do about certain topics, other times they offer a shoulder to cry on when shit goes really sour.

[@aaronbcole]

Sad that there is no left in America - both parties pro billionaire, pro war, anti worker

[@ZIEMOWITIUS]

Nobody hates workers more than leftists. The working class in America is largely white, rural, and conservative.

[@archvaldor]

This might be Hoots breakout video.

[@Breadcrochets]

Yes! Don’t forget that the way we’ve learned to mock ppl in the US is soaked in ableism. Don’t comment on appearance, don’t comment on intelligence,don’t comment on mental health

[@calvinware7957]

No I think you can comment on intelligence when it comes to the powerful because they're are some genuinely stupid mother fuckers in positions if power and it removes the mystique created by false senses of meritocracy. We like to believe our law makers are smart or at least represent the above average in intelligence but that's not true. 😊

[@slackershrub8923]

You people really are the death of comedy.

[@Breadcrochets]

@@slackershrub8923 and you reinforce the systems that make it acceptable to allow ppl to die from societal negligence. But at least you get to laugh, god forbid you actually pay attention to the world around you

[@slackershrub8923]

@@Breadcrochets these problems aren't lost on me since I have experienced the pain that comes with the wrong chemical balance and skin pigment. I find plenty of humor in the human experience and it's many highs and lows. You may have your own tastes but don't let that ruin other's tastes.

[@Breadcrochets]

@@slackershrub8923 it’s okay disabled community, you don’t the deserve basic common decency that would literally be the least anyone could do to ease your suffering without actually improving your material conditions, because one person is okay with it and feels inconvenienced

[@shiba-404]

Anyone here wanna talk about Naomi Wu went missing?👀 I've only seen a couple of people talk about that, including Keffals and Rebecca Watson.

[@errrkt]

true

[@fzzyslpprs]

Maybe im crazy but i really like the trillbillies. Definitely fits the dirtbag/disillusioned category but i feel like not entirely off the deep end. Aaron was a really good addition to that show imo.

[@ryouhonoo5]

Trillbillies are good people

[@toppersundquist]

This is the most circuitous way Lord Oculon has turned me onto a new creator (new to me), but glad they did!

[@Th3VG7]

Recommending thoughtslime at the end given the content of the video is certainly something.

[@TheWhite-Rabbit]

Overall, great video! I agree there is a fine line to abrasive, edgy humor and counterproductive rhetoric. However, I'd like to push back a bit on the Professor Flowers bit just because the relevance of her argument is starting to become more problematic given current events. I know that most people aren't going to watch over ten hours of debates, reviews, and redundant analysis videos and admittedly, I find doing the homework emotionally draining too; but we're seeing the consequences of such a position right now in the Israelis-Palestine conflict. At the crux of Professor Flowers (PF) argument was the conflation between a nation and the people within it and the idea of an "original sin". A "colonizer" not only described the soldiers and nation's leaders who started an invasion, but also the descendants of those people even if they are decades or centauries apart. So, some form of blame is passed down between generations despite them having no control over where they were born. Because of this, the descendants of that colonized group are justified in doing harm to the other. In videos after the debate, PF explicitly stated that no amount of retaliatory violence would equal the initial violence done to the colonized people by the colonizer. Combine this with the "original sin" concept and suddenly it becomes justifiable for the descendants of shitty people to bear the brunt of the violence instead of the state being responsible to make amends. Additionally, PF said that while she would not condone wholesale killing, it was up to the colonized people as their "right to self-determination". Ignoring the euphemism, this (as any leftist from post-2016 trauma will say) is a tacit endorsement. As with racism, one cannot distance themselves from the conversation; the opposite of being pro-racism is being anti-racist. Professor Flowers's ideology is one that has been used many times to justify war crimes, it's only cloaked in leftist language to make it more palatable to those who want a moral basis for their anger. To get slightly more personal, I have an aunt in Israel; she's not Jewish or Palestinian, but a Filipino immigrant for the past fifteen years. And it hurts to know that the rhetoric coming from Netanyahu's administration is condoning the displacement and frankly, killing of Palestinians. It also hurts to see the crimes committed by Hamas and see innocent civilians take the blame for a fringe group. Using PF's logic, both the Israeli government and Hamas can twist reality to justify their awful behavior, and in some cases have every right to kill my family. There are plenty of examples to point to about Vaush's skullduggery (for lack of a better word) and you made them in the video. As a pedantic Vaush fan myself, I found them fair. But the implications Professor Flower's ideas aren't something we should be encouraging. P.S. Loved the "If you go low, I'm going to Hell" line, would absolutely buy that if it were on a passive-aggressive mug with a middle finger on the bottom of it.

[@Skinnybalto]

Thank you for saying this, the harm caused by systemic racism can’t be fixed by moving the racism rhetoric to a different group. The road to reparations will be long, difficult, and complicated, and I don’t know what exactly it will look like, but I know it certainly shouldn’t involve forcing people out of their countries in order to form ethno-states. That is not what equality is supposed to be about.

[@etroxzy]

Just wanted to say +1000 points for having such a based IP take!!! I’ve got family in Israel (Jewish) and I can relate heavily.

[@mynamehappy]

I found Chapo in 2018, after Trump had some time to really cook, and they instantly appealed to me. I voted for Bernie in the 2016 primary, and held my nose for Hillary in the general. After she lost I was pretty adrift politically, and Chapo really gave me something to latch on to. Maybe it was all the time I spent on 4chan back when I was in middle school in the late aughts, or maybe I've always just been a bit of a dirtbag with my humor, but it's safe to say I was all in on the dirtbag left. 5 years past now though and I admit I've also been reflecting on it a lot recently, so it's a bit apt you would release this video. I think I've done a good job avoiding total shitposter brain worms, but I admit I've been feeling extremely jaded recently. Even though my work as an urban planner puts me in a position to at least try and fight for some incremental change inside our rotten institutions. I am glad to see I'm not the only one wondering if they should soften up a little, I'll probably always be a bit of an asshole, it's just funny, but maybe checking myself more often would be a good thing for both my mental health and the leftist project.

[@Omegian14]

This whole video is making me flash back hard to a conversation I had in 2017 with another leftist. Teresa May was still Prime Minister and a video was released featuring the 'comedy' character Jonathan Pie calling her a bitch and then defending his use of the word because not calling her that term would be patronising. While 'bitch' is hardly the worst gendered slur, something about this middle class Londoner in a suit using the word made me uncomfy. My friend told me that being a woman didnt exempt May from criticism and I agreed but still felt there was something ugly underlying the language. Pie has since been revealed to be the brainchild of a Brexiteer and i felt somewhat vindicated but was never able to put my finger on what i was feeling back then. This video explores that really well. Great work!

[@holocoffin]

I'd like to recommend the podcasts "rehash" and "srsly wrong" as well as the youtuber "Andrewism"

[@Tre0897]

black male mid twenties- former JRE enthusiast and ~2019 I switched over to Chapo, cum town and more recently digging thru Red Scare archives

[@Starkweather133]

I feel compelled to call you gay for liking cum town, but that’s bad taste

[@etroxzy]

Atta guy

[@austensg9596]

Love that Hoots just poked fun at Contrapoints for being an impulsive tweeter and then served face just like her. And I'm pretty sure that was intentional. Nice move.

[@Ash_W04]

And the fact this video is very Envy-esque with the lacrimosa intro 💀

[@ab8817]

you can call out vulgarity all you want, but we've been down this road before in the mid-2010s. you want to go back on the path to Broad City and Lily Singh, go for it. it was so ineffective that it did more damage than the perceived cuddly good everyone thought it was. you're signing yourself up to be a sitting duck.

[@ultravioletiris6241]

Notice how she herself made crass jokes throughout. It’s “rules for thee and not for me” tone policing

[@The_Hooded_Scribe]

I just found your channel, and I am loving it so far, literally binging through a bunch of videos. I was a little surprised not to see Shoe0nhead mentioned in the recommended list. I realise you said it wasn't an extensive list so I just thought I would give her a shoutout here in the comments. She is hilarious, and despite clearly stating she is a leftist liberal her stances on the way leftists handle things get her so much criticism that many accuse her of being on the right. Anyway Love the content and can't wait to keep watching.

[@jacobvardy]

Kinda surprised to not see 'It Could Happen Here' mentioned in the comments. Its done by the same people who do 'Behind the Bastards'. And also has Jamie Loftus as a regular guest.. I'd strongly recommend 'It's Going Down' if you're after sincerity. But my comment is mainly to appease the youtube algorithm.

[@DNorbs7]

I've never listened to "Red Scare," but I definitely dislike that type of "leftist" who is so irony-poisoned that you can't even tell what they actually believe in. They spend more time dunking on liberals (who probably agree with them on a lot of stuff) than they do condemning the right, and I think overall, their nihilism pushes more people toward fascism than progressivism.

[@benshatpiro83]

‘Behind the Bastards’ is another awesome podcast that Jamie Loftus guests on; it’s a hilarious history podcast hosted by Robert Evans. It tends to focus on a wide array of ‘Bastards’ such as Henry Kissinger, Andrew Tate, and the KKK. hoots would be a super rad guest :)

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

Addicted to BTB! :D discovered it recently.

[@ConvincingPeople]

Came down here to recommend ICHH, actually! But yeah, in particular the episodes Jamie guested on discussing Ragnar Redbeard are some of my favourites.

[@Owesomasaurus]

I feel like BTB walks the line between edge and empathy really well.

[@ryouhonoo5]

Would not recommend BtB at all, Robert Evans is a western chauvinist imperialist and has self-admitted strong ties to the feds. He’s exactly the type of person who infiltrates the left to weaken it from the inside. He may have decent takes on old, Cold War era US foreign policy, but look at any of his takes on modern U.S. foreign policy and it breaks the illusion.

[@EphemeralTao]

BTB is great, as is Some More News (who are frequently guests).

[@thiccrat]

a strong sense of empathy helps me not feel the need to bully, abuse, or harass people for traits that dont harm anyone. I always imagine the pain and suffering of others as though i feel it myself, relating it to my own difficult life and all ive been through as a result of the horrible lack of empathy i see in others. i never want to do to others what theyve done to me. it only makes me part of the problem instead of the solution (peer support, reaching out to show i care, relating to people with my stories..) i have hope all the gross behaviour that repulses me from supposedly "progressive" people will become "cringe" and embarrassing to them as they hopefully mature with age and experiences. true not giving a fuck energy isnt being a piece of shit. being a piece of shit is heavily rewarded, especially online! even monetarily! look at my fellow twitch streamers! true not giving a fuck means wearing your heart on your sleeve and embracing empathy, caring, emotional intelligence, and standing up for the marginalized and vulnerable and even yourself. showing you care has become a massive act of courage when so many people are dying to tear you to shreds for it, because youre "doing it wrong" or are "cringe" or "annoying." okay, so be it. im practicing what i truly believe in and im showing people i care and will always be a source of support and caring in a cold, cruel world that seems extremely proud to hurt each other and themselves with their "idgaf about anyone, even myself" personas. sincerity is vulnerable and powerful at once. Empathy is difficult, painful, and exhausting, but i dont regret it. Im aware its the hard choice in a world rewarding the exact opposite, but it genuinely makes me feel good. being mean feels like acid that eats away at me from the inside. im glad i care. makes me someone i can be proud of. I left behind the bully attitude when i graduated middle school, and i never looked back.

[@baby.yogurt]

I have to give a shoutout to two more people who I think probably fit the anti dirtbag leftist category on youtube, Fab Socialism and Unpoetic Justice !!! I can't recommend their videos enough. Both insightful as hell, smart, earnest, thoughtful creators who deserve wayyy more recognition (esp Unpoetic Justice, she should have way more subscribers)

[@AutisticNotAlien]

Thank you for providing polititainment & giving hope to this jaded 42-year-old cheerful nihilist limey. (Thanks also to Ponderful/Ember Green for recommending your video). This has become my new favourite quote: “Reject the impulse to simply consume content and retreat into your tailor-made niche of polititainment. Reject the impulse to let the algorithm serve you up a healthy serving of complacency. I think action begins with community, so find community.”

[@chefarik]

Look, you were gonna get my sub here and probably at LEAST a couple pod listens half way through this. The Jamie "Lil' Zam" Loftis shoutout just sealed though. You got a whole fan over here.

[@RuneForumwalker]

18:10 Grew up in Texas, and while most of it was not in a rural area, it's also been in suburbs of one of the three big metro areas (which being suburbs, are decently red). Never took gender studies, not had much experience with universities. I've only been to community college, and the majority of those teachers were probably libertarian. And I'm with you 100%. My continued drift leftward is not just hearing from marginalized people, but reading Marxist theory and the history of socialist projects.

[@kynetx]

Thanks for this. Fuck, I'm tired of ironic hipster politics where only the host(s) have valid opinions. I'm tired of accelerationism and nihilism. I'm so exhausted by the cruelty. Thanks for saying what I've been thinking.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

In an age of aesthetics, sincerity is radical.

[@kynetx]

@@satyasyasatyasya5746 holy hell, that's inspirational.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

@@kynetx so is your handsome face! hahaha But no, thanks ☺😊 I've kinda lived by it for a while now. Its not easy and people don't always react well or treat me kindly but its some kinda praxis, right? :D Its a small act of rebellion against the stink of neoliberalism. Anyways, thanks again and I hope you have a nice day! 🤗 (and sorry for the little bit of thirst - I guess thats my shameless sincerity at work again 😅😂🤣)

[@EphemeralTao]

@@satyasyasatyasya5746 Very well said.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

@@EphemeralTao thanks ^.^

[@Bloodybradmusic]

Dirtbagism was about building a career and a new media hierarchy rather than power - that’s why she worked with Kriss and Texas and was interviewed in Spike Magazine. I think there was a clarity of purpose to dirtbagism but the purpose was “I’d like to get invited to the right parties and have simps” which became more compatible with dimes square Thielings than the DSA

[@Bloodybradmusic]

Anyway I’m gonna apologise to you - I left a comment on your cooking video being so paranoid it wouldn’t mention disability that I couldn’t bare watch it first, but what you say in the middle of this one about different struggles is very lovely and dead on

[@redblaquegolden]

I'm like 3 minutes into this video. Already iconic. Hoots has one of the best channels on this platform.

[@jhtrq1465]

Just discovered your channel, really nice content! Love from France

[@howtocami]

The problem with this video essay is that there is no video essay

[@chadalpha7983]

Wow you parroted your favorite streamer! Learn to think for yourself

[@heavenly2k]

I've been practicing "keep it in the group chat" for a while now and it's validating to hear others push for less public vitriol towards people online

[@P326Star]

This complicates things for me: I love Natalie but agree that she needs to either get better with Twitter or just leave it for good. And having a whole section in her latest video dedicated to her drama with Vaush just really felt beneath her…or at least my perception of her.

[@laurelgardner]

I mean, what else can a creator DO when Vaush targets them, considering his whole damn THING is to horrifically misrepresent people and then sic internet hate mobs on them?

[@notdeadyet41]

@@laurelgardneri love when people lie for no reason when their faves are met with the tiniest bit of criticism

[@Skinnybalto]

@@laurelgardner She was the one who came after Vaush, they were both on good terms before that. There’s a lot you can criticize Vaush for, but you should look into situations carefully before choosing sides, especially when it comes to internet beefs

[@JeskaiEye]

​@@laurelgardnerevidence pending, of course. For ever and ever...

[@jessehammer123]

Yesss, munecat is awesome!

[@FunkMcLovin]

The woman who coined the term Dirtbag Left, Amber A'lee Frost made a memoir about occupy and the Bernie campaign. Worth a read.

[@sebastianking657]

This video illuminated something in me that I grapple with a lot, that being my inner dirtbag. I grew up in a largely conservative household in a fairly conservative town, and while many of the views I hold now are left in nature, I still sometimes get adverse reactions to people and posts like you describe. Understanding those reactions and reflecting on those thoughts really helps me though and it’s nice to a video that describes that inner struggle really well, so thank you

[@DavidXanitos]

I look at this conversation from the perspective of infotainment, I love Lumi and Müncat for their insight, and their videos, but just like having a salad is good for me, I want a damn pizza, I think Clara and Ian are just that, a pizza, a change of pace, and though I may not agree with all 4 about some topics I realize them for who they are, allies in the same space and their over all values seem to align FAR more than they do not. I find that when I’m over indulged in my salad I kinda wana go in for a pizza every now and then, as long as it’s not the only thing we consume, than I think both/ more styles of infotainment are great within the same space. Without variety, it all gets stale.

[@danielwinder6343]

1000% agree

[@christopheraustin643]

Even Chapo has changed in the past few years, I think largely due to Matt Christman's journey through his Cushvlogs where he's been rejecting nihilism and embracing a politics of love

[@ryouhonoo5]

Chapo is still vulgar but they have good political instincts and generally know their shit. Typically have good takes on issues where many other western “left” figures have blind spots, like US foreign policy.

[@zainmudassir2964]

​@@ryouhonoo5although their comment section is painfully liberal especially anti-Russian and actively deny fascist movements in Ukraine

[@ryouhonoo5]

@@zainmudassir2964 dunno anything about Chapo comments sections. I know they disavowed their own subreddit for being annoying. The actual Chapo hosts takes on Ukraine/Russia are good (two fascist adjacent capitalist powers at war with one another, with Ukraine being used as a U.S. proxy to advance US interests at the expense of Ukrainian lives)

[@InaneBlatherPodcast]

I love so much of this but i still honestly cant understand why people take the Vaush "women be quieter challenge" tweet seriously. I dont get it. It's just a dumb throwaway joke tweet

[@pallingtontheshrike6374]

lul i’m new around here but i hate vaush for his rainbow imperialism and obsession with “tankies” also he told hakim to go die to a drone strike so

[@InaneBlatherPodcast]

@@pallingtontheshrike6374 yeah he says dumb stuff for sure (and that's probably why so many people refuse to acknowledge some of his obvious jokes as not being serious). The tankie obsession is def a symptom of being terminally online though lol

[@pallingtontheshrike6374]

@@InaneBlatherPodcast unfortunately what it means is we have an entire gaggle of people coping to hell and back in our neoliberal hellhole but their first response is to blame china and be racist, all while saying they’re “real socialists,” whatever the fuck that means

[@asocksual4910]

Dumb throwaway jokes can't still be misogynistic, and they aren't above criticism

[@InaneBlatherPodcast]

@@asocksual4910 sure, of course! But context is important, too. Dumb throwaway jokes aren't very important and don't define someone, that's all. Just seems like a really silly thing to keep harping on imo

[@LameFox]

I have always been really sketched out by that sort of 'leftist' even before I could think of any reason to be. Kind of a relief to see it being analyzed like this.

[@0ptimuscrime]

Vulgarity is necessary when your life is considered vulgar by the status quo. If your right to exist is at odds with what people consider “polite” then fuck being polite.

[@imaginingdefeat]

I’ve been reading a lot of Jon Stewart retrospectives lately about the slow poison of the “too cool to care” attitude he embodied. I think we have to be super careful about the extent to which we treat politics as absurd, ridiculous, laughable..it’s okay to laugh at what’s happening, especially when that may be the only way you can engage with the world without succumbing to despair, but it’s crucial to emphasize that this circus, while deeply funny, has a real, concrete impact on human lives and warrants more productive action than writing a clever joke. The right doesn’t see how ridiculous they are, and so pointing out this ridiculousness with humorous commentary we praise as “incisive” (👏) really does nothing but entertain those on the left.

[@lizardman7718]

I’m a big Some More News fan

[@TheDaniel9]

Church enjoyer here :D I'm a Lutheran, church is nice. You sing songs (or hymns if you're nasty) about the wonder and awe of an entity so far beyond our imagination that also loves and cares about us individually. There's usually also coffee and donuts, and sometimes a pot-luck. It's a good community of people, a lot of people I consider family I met at church. I met my wife there when we were both kids and grew up together, fell in love, and got married in that church.

[@transsexual_computer_faery]

damn, if god cares about me they must be sick in the head

[@amla2263]

This was great, and such a hopeful, encouraging message (especially because I got here right after listening to the Columbine episode of RtD)

[@maotsebong4869]

Want to shout out the podcast Citations Needed. Solid media and current event analysis from a socialist perspective, but palatable enough for even your average liberal NPR fan. Honestly kinda like socialist NPR so it's great for car rides.

[@JohnathanEnder]

Behind the Bastards is a GREAT podcast.