Hornby TT vs. OO Scale | What Are The Important Differences?

[@bbej2016]

Now compare TT120 to N gauge.

[@SamsTrains]

That'd be good!

[@danshobbies13]

Then do N gauge to Z scale.

[@bbej2016]

@@danshobbies13 then z and t gauge

[@1471SirFrederickBanbury]

@@danshobbies13 only if he shows z gauge live steam

[@chrismorgan200]

@@bbej2016 then T and ant gauge

[@lukewolsey]

If I was starting now, I would be very interested in TT. It seems to have the benefits of both N and 00, without the drawbacks of each.

[@SamsTrains]

Yep - it's very compelling isn't it? Just needs a broader selection and then it'd be a real competitor! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@ShukakuTheCrazy1]

Same, especially since I have an interest in British locos, growing up with thomas and whatnot. It seems the perfect size

[@Michaelgoestofrance]

Always interesting to compare the two. In my case, TT has seen me return to British outline modelling (mainly a Continental HO and N scale modeller). I'm really happy with it and am pleased that there is now a correct scale/gauge ratio. It really suits my needs perfectly so, in that effect, I'm one of Hornby's supposed target modellers.

[@EpicSpeed5222]

As much as TT may be cheaper first hand direct from Hornby. 00 gauge because it's been around for many years, so there are many different second-hand models and cheaper options to buy from, such as other brands and different quality levels.

[@MrJoeyWheeler]

And that is a crucial difference that makes 00 superior. You can't compete with something that's so firmly established that you can grab new stuff for it at a car boot sale.

[@1471SirFrederickBanbury]

its not cheaper if you buy 2nd hand, where budget 00/EM/P4 becomes super easy and is still quite fun in its own way.

[@lindaoffenbach]

Intriguing comparison. Another advantage of TT is that modellers have since been enabled to mix British with continental should they so wish. We certainly would love to but the scale difference of OO and H0 can lead to odd visual appearances. If locos are very large or small enough, the difference of scale doesn't show too much. TT however opens up both markets. Cheerio.

[@andrewstewart-wright4131]

Sam another great video. As a recent convert to TT I will be sticking with it and hopefully a few others manufacturers will join Hornby in the TT revolution. Remember this has only been going 2 years and I do wonder what the delevelopments might be within the next 5/10 years! Will we see coaches with opening doors or even automatically opening doors! Who can tell what the future will bring! I have a feeling that TT in the longer run will probably save Hornby. Cheers, Andy

[@JerseyBill-x9r]

Very interesting comparison but I did think going in how predictable the outcome would be. I was surprised at how little difference there was between the two A1's. Great video, Jersey Bill

[@TankEngineFan5]

Me and my dad actually just recently learned about TT scale. When I first saw it I thought it was N scale, until I saw the sign above it at the train Chilliwack Train Show it was at. It was then seen again by the same people at the Vancouver Train Expo on the 2nd.

[@johnbradshaw5900]

The elephant in the room of the video is size. If you don't have a lot of space TT may allow you to do something with mainline trains which look realistic and which have a bit more presence than N. That's a huge advantage, a deciding factor, for people that just don't have space to have the layout they'd like in OO but which may be achievable in TT. I think a much more meaningful comparison would be TT v N as I suspect they are the two competing scales.

[@stuartaaron613]

If I were to start a new scale for the British model train market it would be HO scale. There are already huge numbers of accessories, such as buildings, vehicles, figures, and scenery. A correct British HO layout could invite equipment to visit from non-British railways, such as mainland Europe and North America. Also, they could run on the same track as OO, so they could even run on legacy OO layouts, and the track would be the correct gauge for the models.

[@SamsTrains]

Yeah it's a very interesting thought isn't it? I think it'd be a scary prospect for a manufacturer to introduce something so close to the scale almost everyone models... yet not quite that scale... knowing they'd possibly sell much more if they were OO... if the switch could be made by everyone it'd be awesome... but I wonder how many Brits want to tear up their OO layouts?? Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@thomasfrancis5747]

Problem is that Jouef/Playcraft, Lima and Fleischmann have tried it and failed. Marklin offer a HO Flying Scotsman - at a price.

[@1471SirFrederickBanbury]

the problem is that with how tight the tolerances are on British locomotives, there would still be a tone of compromises, just like with TT120, and its much easier to make new track and increase gauge than to redo splashers. A universal adoption of EM would be nice though.

[@stormbowman7148]

@@1471SirFrederickBanbury The tolerance on British locos is not an issue anymore. They can build them perfectly fine in H0. Tolerances are a problem of times long gone.

[@1471SirFrederickBanbury]

@@stormbowman7148 considering that most US locos are distorted to be able to run around silly tight curves, and it was considered an impressive feat that a Gresley pacific could just squeeze around a 5 chain curve (5ft radius in 00) in Kings Cross yards at 5 mph, I'm going to have to disagree. Have you seen most of the locomotives in Britain with splashers, or most outside cylinder locos with

[@zanegracie39]

I'd go OO if i had the room, for a small space, i'd definately go TT, each scale have there advantages and disadvantages, with OO i'd expect above than average performance due to the fact that the scale is larger and can take larger motors, whereas with TT you're kind of limited due to its smallness, a good video Sam, and you've been honest in your review. Thumbs up.

[@josephchristianson3001]

I used to think prices in Australia were bad compared to the £99 - £129 Hornby sets, hence I bought them for the locomotives, rolling stock and track. Things have changed. When I see DC locomotives priced at £200, the highly detailed Australian HO models have become bargains @ ~£170 for DC and ~£220 for DCC fitted models with dual speakers, particularly when DCC equipped models with dual speakers come into the equation. Auscision offer multiple models in different liveries, all with 5 pole skew wound motors with double fly-wheels at this price. And let's not forget the £20 pound discount on pre-orders...

[@davidstrains4910]

Decent video here Sam, I got to see some TT scale at the last show I was at which was the Leeds Model Railway Show, last weekend (Saturday 26th October) it wasn’t hornbys TT though, it was Triangs old 3mm TT, overall when it comes to hornbys I think they are doing well, while I’m not collecting it myself seeing those that are the models are very good, quite amazing how they are getting all the detailed in a smaller scale.

[@bcoldgoalie]

I used to model HO many years ago. I got back into modeling this year, partially due to Sam's Trains, and I went with N scale. Space is a factor and the N scale looks really good and realistic in a smaller space. TT hasn't got as much available for North American type railways. Interesting comparison between HO and TT Sam! 👍

[@speleokeir]

Another good video Sam and useful for anyone getting into the hobby and looking at the pros and cons of different gauges, or people down sizing their homes and thinking of swapping from OO to TT. PROS OF TT FOR BUYERS: - it takes up less space so is more practical if you have limited room and let's you have a more extensive layout in the same space. - It's also a bit more affordable, except for wagons where the extensive secondhand market for OO means you can build a rake for considerably less. -As a nice bonus it's to scale too. cons: - a far smaller range of products in TT at present, though it's growing quickly,. - a limited second hand market. - being a pick more fiddly, though not as bad as N gauge. Altogether a good compromise between OO and N and gives people more choice which is always a good thing. PROS FOR HORNBY: The elderly age profile of modellers and those passing on not being replaced by the same number of younger modellers means Hornby needs to try and expand their customer base. TT allows Hornby to try and do this in two ways: 1) It potentially has a much bigger market as TT is popular in Europe, the US and Japan whereas as OO is chiefly a GB thing, plus a few ex pats in places like Australia and North America. 2) it's an attempt to get newcomers into the hobby who have been put off by lack of space, plus it's a bit more affordable. How successful it's been at this I'm not sure. Other advantages of TT for Hornby. - A near monopoly in the UK. - A limited secondhand market for the moment. In OO I suspect Hornby loses far more potential buyers to the secondhand market than rival manufacturers.

[@nedimar5696]

Why would you expect for the cost to be proportional to the scale? That doesn't really make sense.

[@oriontaylor]

Of course proportion should come into effect. Or do you think 1/G scale models should cost the same as N scale?

[@SamsTrains]

I don't expect them to be proportional - I did say that. I think smaller models should be cheaper though, as from a customer's perspective you get less for your money. They say N costs more because they're sold in smaller numbers, and that's true, but that doesn't make the deal any better for the customer... I think better prices would attract more modelers and bring growth... then capacities could be increased! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@drshrempy352]

Design, tooling, assembly, inspection, logistics etc all cost the same no matter what. A bit less material and packaging is really the only saving.

[@That1Redhead28]

I don’t think the replies sensed your sarcasm

[@Decrepit_biker]

​​​​@@SamsTrains the cost of material is actually one of the smaller costs in manufacturing in many cases. The difference in plastic costs between a TT A3 and one in 00 would be a few pence. Same with the other materials. There might be a couple of £ difference between the two in material costs over all. The labour to facilitate production will me much the same. Cycle times for the manufacture of individual parts might be slightly less for an N or TT gauge component, but production runs will be shorter, therefore your machine will have more set up time in-between production runs. Depending on loading procedures you'll loose more fr your cycle time too as machine is standing idle wile somone loads and or unloads it. As an engineer from a production background (with experience in estimation and quotation of work all be it in the oil industry) I know how much machine time you can lose with break down and set up of tooling and part loading. This can make a small item MORE expensive than a similar larger part in some cases. Add to that the fact assembly times likely won't differ greatly, (again I know this from experience, smaller components take people longer to put together) and shipping costs will be much the same per container (yes that same shipping cost will be divided more ways with a smaller component) I am not surprised the difference between TT and OO price point isn't that much. It is often difficult for a customer to understand that the tiny object isn't necessarily much or even ANY cheaper. I guess that you don't have any experience of large scale manufacturing at all, and that's OK but be aware its a lot more complicated that you're portraying. There is obviously more to consider such as marketing and how you actually create a price point for an item (which isn't probably how most think you might do) which change things beyond just the pure manufacturing costs, but I do get why you might look at one wagon say compared to another and go "well it's only half the size so why is it the same price?" I will caveat this with saying I do feel that some manufacturers have higher price points than I think is fair, but the reasons aren't primarily material costs as you seem to be keen to blame. It's primarily business and financial factors that drive up pricing, the desire to maximise profit, and to provide dividends to the shareholders if its a public company. Not that Hornby is doing well in that department with losses most years since 2012...

[@NWRJ_WStudios]

Although TT is a very interesting scale Sam, I would probably stick with OO. Cheers Jasper & Willow

[@andrewmurton8379]

Having like many been collecting and running OO for many years and as such having everything from old Hornby, Lima and even a Triang or two I recently tried TT and on the whole I’m very impressed, the biggest issue I’ve found with TT is with the class 50 and 43 where the drive shafts are to weak and as such pop out too easily whilst running. The drive shaft issue has now been fixed by the aftermarket suppliers.

[@joeyborrowdale3286]

The TT Engines Look really cool and cute. They have a lot of detail for being very small. Great video, Sam!

[@stuartjohnellis]

perhaps a little unfair comparing the first ever model launched by Hornby in tt against the oo 'equivalent' which is on its twentieth upgrade. i would have thought the difference in price would mainly be down to shipping costs; you can fit twice as many tt models in a container.

[@koenraadprincen7212]

Indeed, the latest steam locomotives in TT-scale also have a 5-pole motor and a metal body (Princess Coronation class). Sam even did a video review on it (june 17th, 2024)!

[@speleokeir]

Agreed. And the biggest cost by far is labour which is the same for both scales. Hornby also intially gave a significant 15% discount for club members to help launch the product. TT wagons though are over priced IMO compared to OO where there are loads of second hand stock available for much less.

[@SamsTrains]

I don't think it was unfair - the TT model was produced recently, and while upgraded, the OO model dates back ages, with no mechanical upgrades that I know of. I chose locos that had the broadest appeal - the A1 is an important model!! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@koenraadprincen7212]

@@SamsTrains Yes, but you could have at least mentioned it, especially the 5-pole motor. (All next TT-scale models will probably have 5-pole motors).

[@AndrewJowett40106]

Fascinated by this video - thank you for making it. We have noticed that the choice of model engine has come up in this video and others recently - would be really helpful if you could compare and contrast the different engines (3-pole, 5-pole, coreless and even some older ones like ringfield) to show how they work and what their different strengths are. Also interested in knowing which ones tend to last the longest or need more maintenance in your experience.

[@JB-ud6vm]

Your observations are fair enough and I think I agree with the summary, but looking at it from a general point of view, TT is just an option for model size, the rest of the differences are secondary, if you got a small amount of space for a layout, you just can't fit 00 or H0 in there, TT or N would be the answer for that. If TT is allowed to mature a bit as a scale in the UK, there should be plenty of etched 3rd party accessories and details you could add to engines if you care about detail. Also the models do pretty much look like 00/H0 if viewed by eye anyway. Nice video as always!

[@SamsTrains]

Yeah true - but the model size is very surface level... I wanted to dive deeper and look at the other differences that are maybe harder to spot! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@hughoconnor9172]

If space is that much of an issue, then one could always go for Z gauge!

[@timbo66]

I really don`t get the hate for Hornby doing TT120, if it brings in new modellers, who cares? I`m an N gauge man, I`m dipping a toe into 009, I`d like to do O gauge and have a garden railway. I can`t so I do what I have the space and budget for.

[@Cape_Cod_Steve]

👍 👍 Probably too much of a hassle, but a split screen when comparing items would be neat . Great vid Thx .

[@caw25sha]

On a few other recent videos he's done a sliding screen which was interesting.

[@Cape_Cod_Steve]

👍​@@caw25sha

[@MrFrosty1966]

Isn't one of the main reasons for choosing TT or N guage the physical size? A complex layout only requires a fraction of the space of a comparable OO one.

[@a2020vision_official]

I would hazard a guess that the reason Hornby are so against coreless motors, it would be because of their HM2000 controllers being feedback controllers, and coreless motors not always playing well with feedback controllers. They probably have some level of product cross-compatibility requirements and any designers who would ask for a coreless motor have been beaten down enough times after asking to give up on it. That's my guess based on my own product engineering experience; unfortunately I don't know much about that coreless / feedback interaction since my engineering degrees aren't in electrical.

[@The_Hump]

I have an educational project for kids where I try showing some basic aspects of physics, like mass, weight, energy and such. I'm building a (transportable!) hump for this purpose, and I had to chose a scale. I've chosen TT after a lot of testing. I needed the smallest possible layout but with cars that can roll consistently. I don't rly care about modelling real rolling stock, or era, but good mechanics and crawling are important. Tillig's current engines and cars fit the purpose just great. It's all analogue and I'm VERY satisfied with Gaugemaster's U-series controllers. The layout is 75% complete, keep tuned ^^

[@Taggart00]

Will you be comparing TT to N scale?

[@briandesens144]

Awesome video Sam

[@chrismemory4684]

My biggest criticism of many of the TT scale steam locomotives (A1s, A3s and A4s) is that the front bogies are too light; if there's even a slight bump in the track, they tend to bounce and derail quite easily. The exception is the Princess Coronation class, they're absolutely brilliant runners. Otherwise I love my TT layout and locos!

[@pemboart]

Im with you Sam. I expect TT to be slightly cheaper. I do O, OO and TT... And you get 'physically' more as you go up so the price scales

[@little_britain]

I have been quite consistent in my criticism in regard to your views on price. N and O are more costly because of the shorter runs (lower sales volume). The amount of material cost is negligable, and although there are detail differences, details on a smaller model are harder to fit and versa, and somewhat cancel out. Basically, if a tooling costs 300,000, I need to sell a number of models to cover that cost. If I can sell 3000, I want a gross margin of 100. If I am only selling 1000, I would need a gross margin of 300.

[@SamsTrains]

Yeah I think this is partly true, but also the smaller models are much simpler - they have fewer separate parts and fewer features, so that should make them cheaper. Hornby blamed some of their recent price increases partly on increasing material costs - so they're obviously not negligible. There's also the matter of far lower shipping costs for the smaller boxes too - again shipping costs have been blamed for lots of price increases too. So manufacturers are either over-exaggerating material or shipping costs, or they're more significant than you seem to think. It's very true regarding capacity though - fewer sales obviously means higher prices - and this is an issue. From a customer's point of view though, paying the same or sometimes even more for a model in N gauge as opposed to OO is a poor deal - and it is, because you get less for your money. That's why I focus on that in my reviews - my reviews don't care about *why* prices are the way they are, only that they are, and so product A is better value than product B. In other words, it's a big issue... but for the manufacturer... not for the customer... most of them don't care about the woes of the manufacturers, many just want the best value for their money... which is OO. While this trend continues, the likes of N will continue to be a small market. I do wonder whether if manufacturers charged a bit less, while this would admittedly cause them to make less money in the short term, they might grow the nicher scales and profit more in the long term. Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@little_britain]

@@SamsTrains I think you yourself have frequently quoted incredibly cheap parts such as motors available for under £3. Let's say that motor, pickups, plastic mouldings, die cast chassis all cost - what - £20 - and another £10 for the wheelsets, that's 30 quid for components. Out of the £30 for materials, what difference do you think making it N vs. TT vs OO vs O gauge is going to make? Obviously less than £30. Realistically, less than £15 pounds difference. Labour is going to be a wash. Fewer bits, but more demanding to assemble accurately. Shipping - you might be cheaper for smaller - but maybe not if you have an entire container shipped for your order. Then there's that small issue of hundreds of thousands of £ in R&D, Design, tooling and production startup. Frankly, I think the production run costs dwarf all other considerations by a fair margin, whether we like or not.

[@SamsTrains]

We can do all the thought experiments you like, but it’ll only ever amount to speculation. Looking at a real world example, the difference in cost between a Hornby A4 in TT vs OO is £60… so the difference is more substantial than you seem to think.

[@peterwebster3076]

I would like to see a comparison between Hornby railways vs railroad models that would be more interesting for oo modellers

[@SamsTrains]

That could be good - thanks for the suggestion! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@Alpha-oo8]

I imagine one current disadvantage to TT is a limited number of options for scenery supplies. Not that it’s impossible to find, of course, but you definitely won’t have as many options

[@davidhinks8384]

Interesting comparison Sam. I've been OO all my life but I can see the attraction of TT. With today's tooling capabilities there's not so much in it but I agree TT should be a little less than it is based on rrp. Cheers.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks David - yeah it'll be a real contender as soon as there's a bit more available. The recent sales had most of this stuff at a much more reasonable price! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@509brown]

Surprising, thank you!

[@vassbalas]

Thanks for the video! I would preferred if you compared more recent releases as well like the Coronations. Then you could also showcase the 2 year progress of Hornby TT. Still the video was good and I liked it. For the future it could be a good video or two if you compare TT and 00 A1s and Coronations as big steamers, and TT and 00 08s and J50s as 0-6-0s. But the TT vs N is also a good idea. I would like to see a continental TT locomotive review from you as well. I think the best one would be Piko’s Laminatka (item n.: 47540 or 47546). That is quite a new tooling as well. But a Roco loco is also a good choice (item n.: 7380001, 7380002, 7380004, 7380009, 7380012, 7380017). All of them are a bit pricey so it could be off topic, but I think you would like them. And for everybody who is a bit sceptical about TT or don’t understand it: It’s just another scale of model trains, another option to choose from. If you want it, buy it, if you don’t then you buy something else. And what I heard from you (although I live in Hungary), you guys like to have this option as well. So no need to search for deeper meanings or understand the philosophy of TT:120.

[@oriontaylor]

Curious that the 00 Class 08 has some bending going on in the connecting rod between the second and third drivers. Presumably, someone at the factory wasn’t paying that close of attention that Monday morning.

[@SamsTrains]

That's interesting - is it not just slop?? Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@1471SirFrederickBanbury]

its easy enough to tighten the rivet, or just get the much better London Road Models/Brassmasters super fine replacement

[@oriontaylor]

I still don’t understand the point of TT scale, although perhaps that’s largely because I’m 1) an American and 2) primarily an 0 scale modeller. It really doesn’t seem to me that the claimed benefits over H0/00 are really significant enough to warrant a newcomer jumping into what is still (and will probably remain) an almost exclusively proprietary scale.

[@dylanhale7300]

I see the point, namely for elderly people who find N too small but HO too large. I quite like it as a size.

[@Decrepit_biker]

UK homes, especially new builds have very limited room sizes, especiallyas compared to a lot of US homes. It rare to model O in the UK for that reason. A TT scale can fit into a much smaller foot print, due to the Square rule, but it much easier to work in than N gauge. One thing to note the track is accurate in 3mm to the foot TT where as 4mm to the foot OO locos actually run on (3.5mm to the foot) HO track which is not just around 2.33mm (3/32") too narrow but the sleeper size and spacing is completely wrong for OO

[@dom1310df]

@@Decrepit_biker I suppose the advantage, as you allude to, is TT doesn't have decades of baggage and have to content with decisions made a century ago when scale and realism didn't matter (as much). By starting again you can do things better.

[@MrJoeyWheeler]

@@dom1310df But those decisions don't actually matter to begin with. The slight scale innacuracy in 00 only matters to rivet counters, not the majority of 00 customers.

[@Decrepit_biker]

​@@MrJoeyWheeler it is the reason I DONT model in OO .... the track just looks awful once you see it. I am definitely not a rivet counter, not by long shot.

[@Poi_16811]

hey Sam what's the easiest steam locomotive you've worked on ?

[@sunrayuk]

Has the problem with hornby curves been fixed yet?

[@MarkJT1000]

Bearing mind that your A1 Pacific and Class 08 are Hornby's first generation of TT120 locos. The 2nd generation locos now have the better 5 pole motors and Hornby would appear to be changing the motors in the next batch of Class 08 shunters for something better too. The OO models have had the benefit of many years of fine tuning and development and the TT120 models should go the same way given a little time.

[@bensids]

Be interesting to throw some n gauge versions in there too. I used to model n gauge and I think the detail in n gauge is better than tt, but would be interested to see them side by side

[@primaveranz]

For most people (who don't have a large loft for example), OO is about individual locos or unrealistically short trains. TT is about longer trains, more closely-coupled and with the correct track gauge. There are already kits offering upgrades to 5 pole and coreless motors for TT models, so performance will not be so different (especially if using DCC). If you want a more realistic looking "Railway system" TT wins every time in my book. I think Hornby should ditch OO (where there is a lot of competition) and focus on TT in future if it wants to sort out its financial difficulties.

[@jurgenihlau4052]

Where can I buy these kits? THX!

[@thomasfrancis5747]

Shame you didn't show end on views so you can see how OO scale models have too narrow a track width. Can you take a look some time at the Osborns Models TT120 rolling stock and buildings?

[@PaulSmith-pl7fo]

Two apects that you didn't specifically mention (although I suspect long-term viewers already know the answer): 1) presumably, both scales were being run on DC (DCC models would probably crawl better than DC models), and 2) presumably, all models would have been run-in at the time of the comparison.

[@melvyncox3361]

Good video.Well compared and reviewed Sam.

[@henrybest4057]

One thing I noticed that you didn't mention was that the flanges on the TT A1's leading bogie were proportionally much deeper than on the OO A1. Pizza cutter wheels!!

[@SamsTrains]

Yeah - you do seem to get that with the smaller scales - you could maintain proportional wheel flanges, but that would make them much much more sensitive to uneven track... the larger flanges ensure they stay on the track! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@joshuaW5621]

I was just at the new Belfast Grand Central station today.

[@SamsTrains]

Ooh excellent - how was that?? Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@joshuaW5621]

@ it looks pretty cool if I say so myself.

[@TobyRidehalgh]

Weird question, does anyone know if its possible to connect hornby and bachmann track, cuz i just got a bachmann tidmouth sheds for my birthday but i dont know it it will connect with my hornby track

[@johnd8892]

Too see a US makers 1949 TT120 Challenger articulated search for : Leonard Williams TT scale Challenger 1949 TT scale got its biggest commercial start in the US just after the war.

[@Equoris]

I can see why you chose to compare the A1s and the 08s as they both exist in both scales and they have been around for a while, but I think it would've been nice to see a comparison of the Princess Coronation class as the TT version of those seems to be of a higher quality than the A1s (die cast body, 5 pole motor, and nicer details). I just got my Duchess of Atholl (the one you also reviewed), thankfully I didn't have the pony wheel problems with it. Maybe a comparison of one of the larger diesels in both scales (if one exists, I'm not sure I'm not that interested in british diesels) would've rounded out this comparison better too. Personally (and living in central europe) I very likely would've gone with H0, as my choice of scale as there is a massive selection for that scale both in terms of rolling stock and buildings/etc, but the space I have didn't allow for the type of layout I wanted in that scale, 00 would've been even worse for it. Frankly I don't see how many households/flats would have enough room for a decent 00 layout, that's not just a small loop in a corner, and quite honestly I find N scale way too small...that "small difference" between N and TT makes a pretty big difference. Choosing TT also allowed me to mix UK and other rolling stock, which is awesome! Some people in the comments mentioned the lack of scenery supplies for TT, this must just be a thing in the UK as in europe there is a ton of stuff for TT, although a lot less than for H0, latter being the absolutely dominant scale here.

[@davidgapp1457]

How about they make a really good mechanism but sell with a cheap shell at a reasonable knock-down price. At the same time, offer a pre-painted upgrade kit to replace the shell, where you get to assemble the parts yourself. With some additional options such as firebox, detailed gauges etc.. This would make cost effective sense for kids but with an upgrade path to the model-grade version as they mature. That way you can capture a young market, but leave options on the table that promote dexterity and model building at an affordable price? I would personally take pride in knowing I had contributed to building a model.

[@goarmysleepinthemud.]

I think TTVis great. In saying that I am holding out hope that advances in 3D printing will result, eventually, in decent British H0 models.

[@Taggart00]

Do you think hornby are against coreless motors based on your old comments about them? Although i just thought, hornby are probably against coreless motors as their controlers aren't really compatible with them.

[@SamsTrains]

Yep I suspect it’s the latter - their premium DC controllers are feedback, so no good with cordless!

[@blackjockofmangertonpele]

​@@SamsTrainsNo good with cordless? Like a drill, or a geography teacher who's taken off his trousers!!!

[@TheHoveHeretic]

Point of Order at 15'34": "the 08 in real life WAS incredibly slow" .... that should be "IS incredibly slow" as, not counting preserved locos, around 100 "Gronks" are still in harness. There are (at least) two projects in train to update the 08 .... The 08e, a battery conversion by Positive Traction, is currently under test in a Somerset quarry and a conversion of an 08 to hydrogen fuel cell power is being conducted by Vanguardsts (that's Sustainable Transport Solutions btw). These faithful little shunters could be around for many more decades yet!

[@richardlee653]

TT 120 has more consistent wheel and track standards than OO,, which will help track-handling over points. Apart from the obvious scale/gauge discrepancy, OO points have to cope with wheels fine enough to re-gauge as EM, wheels from cheap 60 year old models and everything in between. However, I have a feeling that models of larger locomotives will be a lot more successful generally in TT than smaller locos. I doubt that I will have more than a passing interest in TT until I see how good TT models of my favourite loco class (LBSCR A1/A1X "Terrier") are. Fans of big locomotives and express trains may well find TT suits them well, though.

[@davidgapp1457]

As an old person, I'm not interested in a train that requires a high powered light and magnifying glasses to appreciate. Soooo. OO or bigger please :)

[@joek5882]

Fascinating comparison. I dont have any room for OO scale and im one of those wierd collectors whose train fix must resort to static displays (blasphemy?). Since OO scale will always benefit from a wide variety of unique models, my hope for TT is that we will see the same in time. However, I suppose that Im too much of a niche for that to be an effective business strategy. Hornby is gonna have to rely on what sells the most wont they? 🤔

[@kclassproductions]

Is that Accurascale guard iron still there?

[@JustinFrazier_360]

That's so amazing sam

[@robertlucido3686]

Did you get the package I sent you back in July from the package place or do you still have to do that

[@thestocktonflyer4059]

The second hand market for TT gauge is very small if at all .yet OO gauge is vast . Anyone starting in to the hobby on a budget has got a wider choice in OO than TT . It's OO for me every time. Great video sam 👍

[@SamsTrains]

Yep true - TT has a long way to go before it offers what OO does! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@odenviking]

i think that TT1:220 has some what greater i the print if you compare with OO but there stops the comperison . hornby did a nice print job on both the tt1:220 and the oo steam loco. it all comes to size and how well the details are made. TT and N may be small but the deatils differ on the both scales. TT and N both can have great details but the crisp printing on OO is easier to do but hornby have shown what they can manage in a printing matter on a smaler scale such as TT 1:220. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@AllensTrains]

I was somewhat disappointed with my first TT:120 train set. I don't like the couplings which are showing signs of rust! The wheels barked up against the sole bars on the coaches. The track seems to be the incorrect radius. The loco is okay. Where I think TT would come in useful is if you wanted to reproduce a large Hornby layout from the Track Plans book, but didn't have the space!

[@prusijavi]

I would like to get my first train set... but I'm geniunely unsure between TT and 00, what would you recommend?

[@trevorbellTT120]

I love my TT120 as you can produce a far more interesting layout in the space.

[@SamsTrains]

I think objectively OO is the best way to go at the moment, unless you particularly care about the space-saving of TT, and the fact the scale of the wheels and track is more accurate. OO on the other hand has so much more available, a larger second hand market, and many manufacturers making models for it... if Hornby go out of business (and they're struggling badly), that's the biggest producer of TT gone and you could be stranded! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@Rick70567]

TT definitely ! Don't just think about space saving....imagine how much more track you can fit in to the same space as OO. If anything TT will be the saviour of Hornby :)

[@DoubleX8620]

As someone who collects OO and also has an N gauge layout, I still struggle to see the point. Sure, TT is cute, but I think if you really lack space like I am, N gives you more for the small space. I have Japanese N gauge locos by Tomix, Kato and Micro Ace. Lovely locos, but I have a small straight in my display case to run sound fitted locos. OO I think is far superior to TT I think. So much more choice and the second hand market allows for great bargains. Sure, TT may reach the same variety later on, but for now, I will stay with OO and N.

[@thorisrain]

I don't think I've ever heard Sam say that the gearing is too low on a model but I've heard him say the speed is too fast many times. Why don't they do lower gearing on models, especially considering the performance improvements that would result?

[@HerewardTheW]

Great idea for a video, Sam, thank you very much.

[@SamsTrains]

Thank you - glad you liked it!! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@MrMomobot]

How big do these TT models look next to N scale??? That's what I'm curious about. (Edit, whoops, this has been asked before..)

[@bvanbiezen3008]

Piko and Roco has also a TT scale line.

[@glennwoods2462]

Interesting comparison 👏

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks Glenn!

[@casperbacon1423]

I thought the main difference was tt is about a 3rd smaller to its OO Equivalent, but you can pick up A4 in OO gauge for a 3rd less than a TT one😂

[@bluephantom2044]

I no this is nothing related to this video but Sam do you think the bachmann class 03 is an good I am looking for a small shunter that is not an 08 as I'm looking for something different to my brother he has a Hornby 08 thanck you Sam keep up the grate work on the videos

[@SamsTrains]

Yeah it's really good - I think I have a review of one - it's either that or the 04! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@sodor_dan-da-man]

Now here's a comparison to do... The Bachmann and Hornby Thomas ranges of Gordon's and devious diesel compared to TT 08 and A1 lol

[@DavidHart-s6y]

I’m surprised that TT has been brought back !👍

[@SamsTrains]

It was a real surprise!! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@thomasfrancis5747]

Strictly speaking it hasn't. Hornby discussed doing a RTR loco with the 3mm Society (TT100) but it didn't stack up so went to TT120 since slightly smaller and true scale.

[@peternorris6438]

Not sure what choice I would make if starting out but having started with oo gauge many years ago change is not an option, also not sure there are as many accessories for TT interesting though, in many ways such comparisons are irrelevant as you are not comparing like to like

[@justchillin131]

00 and n gauge are my favourites, I have no need for tt and honestly think there's no need for it but that is just my opinion 🙂

[@darreno9874]

With so many scales and gauges to chose from I can't see the point in TT especially when it's possible to have a layout in virtually every scale from S to 16mm in an area of 4 ft by 2 ft or smaller.

[@RichardKuivila1947]

TT WINS ! It comes with more white lint hairs ! . (In OO scale.)

[@Anonymouscloset17]

The 00 A1 is £240 RRP not the £280 stated in the video.

[@ProfPtarmigan]

Throwing a spanner in the works, should Hornby have switched to HO, which is used by the rest of the world (and by Hornby in their continental acquisitions). You can get slightly more train in the space you have and all your old scenics will look ok, even if not perfect. I have no problem with TT120 scale (a much used standard) per se but feel it is a little small for my fingers and eyesight.

[@azuma892]

No Halloween product this year? Sleep tight... The model railway ghosts are gonna get you!

[@SamsTrains]

haha no - working on something for December!!

[@Necrovamp101]

Tis is a good video. However there seems a trend to Compare TT with 00 Gauge especially for it's space saving and price, as that is seen as it's competitor, how ever It should also be compared with N gauge as this is usually seen as the better option for space. Honestly i'm never going to buy anything TT. I have a large 00 Layout that's established and I don't know why I'd bother to buy into a new scale. It seems TT is geared towards running decent sized express trains and not shunting (which is my preferred running option) but the Speed of the 08 just makes that pointless. Also, you missed a chance there to have all of your gauges running, which would be awesome to see. A video comparing all the gauges you have would be good. Do you dare get some z gauge.

[@mgnoodle2589]

Regarding the price. I’d expect cheaper but not by much. Manufacturers Still need to pay for the research and development of the products and all the associated costs

[@RG-Models86]

TT120 has definitely established itself in such a short period of time. I think this time it's here to stay.

[@SamsTrains]

The selection is certainly growing! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@Jimyjames73]

I like OO which I have - but doesn't seem any thing wrong with TT thou...😉🙂🚂🚂🚂

[@Ore152]

Ever such a large gap between loco and tender in TT. Would definitely fail a Health & Safety risk assessment for loco crew!

[@kenjimaurerfromdisneyland2001]

Can you do a halloween Video Tomorrow?

[@Enzi_Meteori_902]

15:47 the connecting rods seem to bend as it runs

[@oninbridders]

1:47 what you hope, but not you will expect. Still the same amount of labour costs. The Material costs are a very small part of the costs.

[@SamsTrains]

Well one of the major factors Hornby blamed for their price increases was material costs - so that suggests they’re not negligible, but agreed labour costs are more significant. The TT models have fewer separate parts and fewer features, so would expect significantly less labour costs and therefore lower prices - and I’m pleased to see that’s mostly what we get in TT!

[@LarsPW]

I am wondering why the 00-world did not switch do a more decent looking and technically more capable coupling system available since decades. The hooks are really bulky and the receiving frame is nearly as wide as the gauge itself. It makes short coupling impossible and is not accessible for decouplers, not to talk of deferred decoupling. Bachmann has a diesel model capable of electromagnetic decoupling but it seems to be not very reliable as expected. I do not know the situation in other European countries but in Germany Märklin started its electromagnetic "Telex couplers" in 1959 and it does work reliable since then. And since the 1980s all not-legacy couplers are accessible for electromagnetic decouplers deployed between the tracks, some of them decades before. Some have electromagnetic versions for digitally controlled locomotives and other versions offer at least two electrical conductors, compatible with the non-conducting variants of course. All versions can defer decoupling in a sense that they can push the decoupled part of the train back after decoupling. The owners of the Austrian manufacture Roco have more H0 coupling systems than they actually need, so I assume they would be glad to license or sell the intellectual property. So why does 00 is not interested in a state of the art-coupling system? When I reentered the hobby I was intrigued to control all operations remotely without the "hand of god" over my trains.

[@SamsTrains]

Yeah that's a really common point - I think it's because it's hard to break away from the couplings that everything uses... which manufacturer wants to change the status quo? Even a better coupling design would get complaints from those who want to use the old design! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@LarsPW]

@@SamsTrains In Germany couplers had been innovated even before NEM-pockets were everywhere. Today it should be much more easy to serve both. I remember the Trix Express-couplers of my childhood (their then foreign brand was Trix International). There had been decouplers, but they did not work properly because of their vibrations. I was too young then to know about rectifiers and leveling capacitors to convert AC into DC which would have made the decouplers operating smoothly and reliably. We had much fun with our railroad, but we decoupled the waggons manually.

[@1471SirFrederickBanbury]

a lot of people replace the tension locks with sprat and winkles or Alex Jacksons which are far less visible, or with 3/screw links or Dinghams, which are shaped like the real deal. Tension locks are still mainstream only because its almost assumed that many will ditch the worthless obese snowploughs, so why bother changing?

[@1471SirFrederickBanbury]

Hand of God is also not that unrealistic compared to most European H0 couplers, Dinghams would be your choice though, as they look pretty realistic (actually coupling hook shaped), but are automatic

[@jurgenihlau4052]

@@SamsTrains The British are very traditional and I believe that the hook coupling is somehow part of the tradition and you don't want to use anything from the continent ;)

[@OlivierGabin]

Two things that will help TT to take off : price and performances. Not really here with Hornby, hope they will do something on this...

[@SamsTrains]

Yep I'd agree with that - they need both for this to work! Performance is great, but could be better! Prices are slightly lower than OO, but they could be better too... the recent sale prices were awesome and worth every penny! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@andrewverden7965]

I would warm to TT were it not for the track and clumsy looking wheels. The track looks thick and non-scale.

[@richardlee653]

I get the feeling that that tends to be a problem with the smaller scales. British outline O gauge seems to me to have more in common with EM than with OO. (I understand that EM isn't just about the gauge discrepancy, but someone who models in EM could say a lot more on that topic than me.)

[@kellyashfordtrains2642]

Sam, please forgive me for not watching for a few days. My internet connection was turned off, because I was a few days late paying a Vodafone bill. That bill has been paid, I left my router disconnected for one hour, turned it back on and you've got me back. Comparing 00 with TT is interesting. I'd like to see a comparison between 00 and N Gauge.

[@atlasduff4628]

The builder’s plate on the smoke box don’t look anything like as good as each other!

[@SamsTrains]

It's interesting isn't it? In person they both look great to me, but the TT one looks much worse on close up! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@themistakeisintentional-dn5df]

1:03 "Don't talk to me or my son ever again."

[@chompette_]

Ah the return of the orange 08 and it's comedy bendy connecting rods. I'd wager TT costs broadly the same as 00 for the same reason that TT exists at all: Hornby has a monopoly on the scale and can charge whatever their sales department predict will be the best return. If they went for N they'd have to compete with the prices of several other manufacturers.

[@andreworton2132]

What about N

[@SomeGuynamedOtto]

pretty sure this video is gonna be really interesting im guessing one of the difrences is price

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks - hope you enjoy!!