Horus Heresy 12: A THOUSAND SONS by Graham McNeill | Warhammer Book Club

[@hoyer]

Emperor: Magnus, you have 1 rule to obey, don’t use the warp. Magnus: instructions unclear, better use the warp to inform dad.

[@miramanga]

😂

[@PsychoticFruitfly]

Lorgar- "right away, God" E- "stop calling me God! it ain't respectable." Lorgar- "sorry God..."

[@hoyer]

@@PsychoticFruitfly everything was going great, the Logar found religion.

[@happyharibo1330]

Was it use or not use the Warp, Dad? It was use the Warp, right?

[@brya9681]

Emperor: don't use magic, ignore the fact that I'm the only person more magical than you and I refuse to give you a reason to not use magic.

[@bdablader95]

This was the book that pulled me into the heresy series a few years ago. The culture of Prospero is just incredible. By the time you're a ⅓rd in, Tizca feels like a real place. The way the astartes are so kind to human civilians and their subtle fall from grace was just masterful. Genuinely a top 3 Heresy book.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

Same with me. I read and enjoyed the first 3-4 HH novels just fine, then jumped to this... and read the entire extended Heresy because of being fully hooked!

[@davidjohnson-rj7op]

I think the Thousand Sons and Prospro Burns are top tear if not the best in the HH

[@glandhound]

I don't think it was very nice of the Astartes to torture that one remembrancer to make sure her death was the most pain filled last minutes anyone ever had.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@glandhound that wasn't what happened. They did let her die in agony yes, but it was in a desperate attempt to gain knowledge and insight to save the entire planet. They did something terrible yes. But not without reason.

[@joshmorales770]

"Stop looking at shards and don't let demons up you..." is just good life advice in general.

[@Michael_Raymond]

The hard cut after “I’m desperately single” made me lose my coffee, I need to know what was redacted by Imperial Censors 😂

[@luckywallace]

Definitely some type of heresy.

[@StickWithTrigger]

Makes you wonder how the one into warhammer is not the one thats desperately single here lol

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

38:40 Mira, humming the Dambusters theme: ‘it’s Police Academy.’ 😂❤

[@miramanga]

IT WAS THIS BIT! kzbin.info/www/bejne/oIPbmIuwoMR_ZtUsi=JNsCBYUWRGG6jsCT&t=75

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

@@miramanga no 😂 it’s pretty similar though! ❤

[@KonetPrime]

also the "I can't wait for Ahriman to get this whole flesh-change thing sorted" from Mira - oof.

[@briochepanda]

All is dust.

[@briochepanda]

Can't wait for Mira to realise why it says "All is dust" on the book.

[@6dragondaddy913]

Russ produces the noise of a moist large cat...

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

She has heard about the Rubric now

[@glandhound]

wet leopard growl for the win

[@Michael-hr4tl]

My understanding on "Magnus did nothing wrong." Magnus was told to do nothing and he did it wrong.

[@georgwilliamfriedrichhegel5744]

I always thought that the Emperor was in a hurry to do the crusade because he wanted to get ahead of all the other civilizations. Sorta like a rush strategy.

[@stevepirie8130]

Love the fact Graham tied in Tzeentch and how crafty the Chaos God is. It could turn out the entirety of the Emperor’s journey to the throne was teased and manipulated by the God long before unifying Earth.

[@MoonlightKingfisher]

You're onto something, take a look at the imperial aquilla

[@glandhound]

The biggest chunk of the Emperor's power was stolen from the four during the dark age of technology. He was already the strongest human psyker, then went to Molech and became the being known as the Emperor... long before unifying Terra. Surprisingly another McNeill novel, Vengeful Spirit describes Horus' journey on that same quest.

[@MrMgdavey]

Each Primarch is a caricature of the Emperor. Magnus, who made a deal with the warp to save his 'sons' and whose hubris in the face of the warp brought everything crashing down.... he's a little E.

[@glandhound]

Yes, sons are often like the father.

[@nickmullen2830]

It will be a sad day when you guys finish these. I really enjoy these reviews guys please dont stop. Thanks for your hard work.

[@alphshift7857]

it'll eventually stop when 40k stops producing books, or loving GW products become the "socially unacceptable thing to do"

[@BoringAngler]

As a lazy fan who reads a few 30k books here and there, I want them to skip ahead to the Siege of Terra books. Though whenever they discuss Ollanius Pious and the duel on the Vengeful Spirit will be great.

[@trentonbaird8956]

Ian’s face when he sees Mira’s enthusiasm for Ahriman to fix the flesh-change is delicious!!

[@trentonbaird8956]

And his restraint is monumental!!!

[@ArbitorIan]

Hey, their flesh doesn't change any more, so I guess it was a success!

[@WellenInspektor]

The "X did nothing wrong" meme started as X=Hitler. Famously, 4chan made sure that this phrase was the most voted for choice in an online poll to name a new flavor of Mountain Dew. For all values of X it is most often used ironically but the internet is gonna internet.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

While that might be true (would not surprise me in the least) that does not mean that "Magnus did nothing wrong" is nazi propaganda. It is not true either, He did do wrong. With the best of intentions and with some decent excuses... but wrong nonetheless.

[@Segmented]

Another example is "Griffith did nothing wrong" from Berserk.

[@WellenInspektor]

@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen I'm not saying it's Nazi propoganda, just explaining the origin of the phrase. I'm not even sure how sincere the 4chan version (x=hitler) was for most of the people who used it. Irony is very difficult to express clearly, and nearly impossible to express in print or as a meme. I feel any original meaning or malice that may have existed has been washed away by time and frequent use.

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

@@WellenInspektor yeah sorry. Reading my comment does kinda indicate that I thought you said that. That wasn't my intention.

[@weirdslime262]

@@WellenInspektor It was originally a classic example of 4chan's Schrodinger irony. Depending on the responses they got and the room they were in, the person stating that was 100% serious or 100% unserious. Whichever side got the more favourable response was correct, in other words, nihilist and noncommital bullshit. Another recent example of this would be the trend towards calling things "based", which has also since escaped into the mainstream.

[@tomb020780]

Just finished this book, there have been some good ones but I think this is one of the best so far! The depth of the tragedy is impressive - arrogance and hubris. I didn't really grok just how huge Magnus' mistake was, until Ian went over it here...worse in absolute terms than Horus, because the Emperor was always playing for the flush hand by getting the Webway working for humanity. For me, the real clincher moment in the book was the description of the instant in which the Emperor realises it's Magnus, and Magnus realises what he's done...it gives a real sense of the Emperor's shame in failing to be a good father to a bright and unloved child, who made a violent attempt to break through (at end of the day he just wanted to just wanted to talk to his father) has such destructive consequences. Thanks Ian and Mira for helping fill in the shading of the bigger picture! Please read/edit faster, so I can keep reading them as your videos come out, it's a really lovely way to work through the series 😊

[@russodoni5331]

The Emperor: I think we should ban magic and religion completely. Also, I'm making 20 super-beings and one of them is should be designed to be the greatest magician ever and another one will designed to be the best priest ever. Malcador: Sure, whatevs, can't see any problems with that plan.

[@IainDoc15]

Don't forget "The Emperor: I think we should make a legion entirely made up of mages then ban magic (while continuing to openly practice magic myself), what could go wrong?"

[@AnderGdeT]

Also, please don't call me a god. Gods don't exist. BTW, my armies will be called "angels of death", and one of my super-being sons will be a literal winged angel. Byeeeee

[@Nukefandango]

The Emperor: I can't explain the Warp because simply knowing about Chaos will corrupt people The Interex: Nah, actually we understand Chaos, the threat it represents, and we have survived old night that way The Emperor: Horus please destroy them all for me

[@FlippingC]

Malcador: But you're making them all women right? Emperor: I want sons!

[@happyharibo1330]

Valdor: werrrre DOOOMED!

[@Jez-Hunt]

Ian is trying to sell Mira for tea!!

[@happyharibo1330]

The Cad!

[@miramanga]

@@happyharibo1330 The Caddy!

[@merci_ann]

Bastard Scale Update! Lucius: 27 Fabius: "blown up the scale"/contested by Ian Erebus: 12 Othe Weirdmake: 9 Bequa: 9 Fulgrim: 8.5 Kelbor Hal: 8.5 Terran colonizers of Caliban: 8 Wsoric the Demon: 8 The Lion: (9/6) 7.5 Remaire: 7 Leman Russ: 7 Brynngar Sturmdreng: 7 Julius EC: 6 Khorneban Machine: 6 Koriel Zeth: 6 Zadkiel: 5.5 Marius EC: 5.5 Magnus The Red: 4 Solomon EC: 3 Unification Wars Emperor: 3 Everyone else in Descent of Angels: 3 Valdor: 1 Iacton Cruze: 1 Thanks for remembering to specify the numbers! Love you guys!❤

[@IainDoc15]

So I'm frustrated that Magnus is above the Emperor, but I love that the space wolf psyker is above Fulgrim and a literal demon

[@miramanga]

😂❤

[@6dragondaddy913]

I have a feeling Erebus is going to climb the ranks some more as he logs more appearances...

[@bragoen]

I like the subtle nod at the TRANSLATED Voynich manuscript. While we have no idea what any of it means

[@MrTyp00n]

Except the Voynich manuscript was cracked during the 70's, it's a manual for making Venetian Glass. (Admittedly it's never been translated, but the illustrations in it give it away as they're patterns found on Venetian Glass.)

[@bragoen]

@@MrTyp00n We're still only guessing from the pictures, we haven't translated any part of it

[@glandhound]

@@MrTyp00nOnly thing cracked here is you. The Voynich manuscript has illustrations of castles, plants, humans and weird organs... you might be thinking about something else. Also, how the hell is it a manual for anything when no one has been able to translate it?

[@MrTyp00n]

@@glandhound Yer, and they're are patterns found in Venetian Glass, although the weird organs aren't organs, they're just geometric patterns for glass decoration. Seriously, go to Venice and ask any Venetian glassmaker and they'll produce a book just like it that's even written in it's own weird language so that only their workshop knows how to produce that particular type of glass and pattern. If you're really lucky they'll produce one written in "Angelic" (ie Alchamaic) script.

[@karlarden6260]

The real world Council of Nicaea is still pronounced as Nikaea, 30k ironically gets closer to the OG pronunciation than English does

[@Mugdorna]

Greek name with a hard C I assume?

[@thomassaxon8254]

​@Mugdorna yes. Even in English as opposed to French loan words it's always a K sound too.

[@redpandapizza8514]

The Emperor only sent Russ to bring Magnus in to stand trial, but Horus (who Russ believed to be still loyal ) manipulated him into trying to kill Magnus

[@wMAILBOXiuse]

I find it cute when Ian starts going into detail you lock in with concentration, I wonder if I have a lock in face when I'm listening to lore as I sleep.

[@Thurban]

Mira's the best! And the earliest book club videos are what got me to start reading the HH series, and A Thousand Sons turned out to be one of my favorites! I felt like Magnus' story was so tragic! He was loyal to the end but still failed so horribly. What a great book! I've been looking forward to you guys getting to this one for ages! So fun. :)

[@etiennegarant7545]

Little bit of history/geography regarding the name of the council city of "Nicea", its just the Latin name of an originally Greek city called "Nikaia", referring to the Greek goddess of victory Nike (same as the brand). The city of Nice in southern France was also originally a Greek colony of the same name. Wonderful video I love that book and the XVth legion!

[@admiral_darkbar4389]

12:01 Mira dropping the Aquila. respect.

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

Russ vs Magnus - an epic rap battle: Russ: ‘Maggie messed up big now I’m coming to see ya, When the Wolf King arrives you’re Edict like Nikea! Your research took you in a wyrd direction, The only thing worse than your judgement is your depth perception! So don’t cry to Tzeentch when we bolt round, Vlka Fenryka here to take you down, You can fool with the warp but it won’t make you strong, Dad said chill out but you ‘did nothing’ wrong! So don’t bother pleading I’ll just leave you on Red, The Emperor’s executioner will cut your thread!’ Magnus: ‘You can’t see I’m loyal? You furry fool, We’re both being played, you’re just Horus’ tool, ‘Rune priest’ is a rebrand, they’re librarians, But you can’t understand, you barbarian! Most of your bros wish you’d never been found, Hounds like you should be put in the pound, Crimson King gonna send ya to doggy heaven, And just where are primarchs number two and eleven?’ Russ: ‘Crimson king? More like crimson cringe, brah! Reading books instead of murder binge? Nah! Now your planet’s gonna burn, Prospero, Cos you just wouldn’t learn, you won’t prosper, bro! We’re all up in your face cos melee is our best range, Could kill you ourselves or just wait for the flesh-change, Your buildings are ‘mid despite pushing the boat out, don’t need no ‘great ocean’ we’ll just tear your throat out! Silence you with some Sisters but first with my flow, Also brought some Custodes to put a tag on your toe, Your sorcerous dabblin’ done gone too far, Now the Russ is breaking back turnin’ Tizca to char!’ Magnus: ‘You’re scared of psykers? got a thousand, son, You’ll be howling off home by the time I’m done, Call yourself Vlka? Well I’m gonna bilk ya, Come at the king and your blood gon’ be spilt brah! Council of Nikaea? Cancel your trip, you’re tired, I’ll roast a Leman meringue with some Tzeentchian fire! Throw my book at you from my silver tower, Better bark off now before you feel my power! Corvidae, Pyrae, and Athenaen Pavoni, Raptora all smashing your grey’uns! We’re gonna pack you off to Terra with your tail between your legs, Pelt you with our magic til Valdor begs! So fangs for the memories, leash those wulfen, Can’t beat us in battle so just go fetch this ball hun!’

[@ronanjohnson9718]

Mira: wow, can you paint one of those Howling Banshee Eldar helmets? Ian: Yes, you can! Me, painting Howling Banshees right now: wow! That sounds so cool!

[@jforozco12]

Love this format guys your chemistry makes the book discussion super fun

[@lokewallmo6867]

I was looking forward to them getting to this book. I jumped straight to Prospero Burns after this one and did not regret it. They are very differnt as books. Graham uses Ahrimans POV frequently which gives alot of "inside information" about the Thousand sons and makes them human. Dan does not really do the same in Prospero Burns, giving a totally different vibe. Both books are great though. And as always, there are no good-guys in 30k or 40k!

[@iainclark2959]

One of the best! Looking forward to your covering the partner book Prospero Burns and hearing your impression of a wet leopard growl.

[@Reeveli]

Visions of Heresy is such an influence on the Heresy series that it would make perfect sense the have a look at it in the Book Club.

[@grantkruger3689]

The Police Academy theme playing during the Council of Nikaea would be hilarious, and fitting 😆

[@drezavelt]

Wow, Ian 1:37 good lord. What a start to the book club.

[@d0natr0n47]

My TL;DR summary of A Thousand Son's is: "...and then the Wolves came."

[@maxmagnus377]

Magnus is the epitome of "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

[@IainDoc15]

I feel like this is the book where the reader finds out (if it wasn't obvious in the Last Church story) that the Emperor is just a total asshole. Pretty much every traitor Primarch's fall to Chaos can be entirely blamed on him with the debatable exception of Curze and Perturabo. Also Prospero Burns honestly just made me hate the Space Wolves even more :D

[@kelakogreenaddict1888]

fulgrim?

[@IainDoc15]

@kelakogreenaddict1888 I mean the issue with Fulgrim is linked to the not explaining the idea of the warp to the primarchs. So he starts hearing voices and doesn't think "Something is speaking to me" but instead "My subconscious is weird, I guess I'm actually insane"

[@kelakogreenaddict1888]

@@IainDoc15 fair enough

[@glandhound]

Every legion was told that xenos need to go and that everything xenos is corrupt and needs to be destroyed. It was the point of the crusade. But it was a really sweet sword, such a shame for it to go to waste. It was perfectly fine for Fulgrim to just start using it? Most traitor Primachs think they knew better than the Emperor and instead of following the rules set out to everyone, they started making exceptions and down to hell they went. Military operations require a working command structure and when orders are not followed, that command structure fails and everything else fails with it. The ones in charge do not need to explain their orders and the only thing they expect in return is that those orders are followed.

[@tersecleric2]

Did you know Magnus host his own comedy club every other week on Tuesdays? It’s called The Thousand Puns.

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

Crimson King of Comedy 😂

[@1989eol]

He really has an eye for comedy.

[@andrefelipe7180]

Laughed out loud. Well played sir, well played.

[@paddya3304]

It wasn't very popular. People thought he had a warped sense of humour.

[@tersecleric2]

@@paddya3304 When it first opened it was very popular. Loads of people used to attend, now the only thing in the seats appears to be dust.

[@JersyCityDevil]

19:00 Going through all these references was pretty interesting. I remember that when it came out my favourite reference was the description of Ahriman's reading space, where he often "pondered over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore". Very fitting, considering his Corvidae allegiance.

[@phookaziz3]

A debate about “magnus did nothing wrong” but ignore the beautifully tragic pun. Classic. He was told to sit and do “nothing”, and he literally did that wrong. Even a lazy human can do nothing.

[@owmycheek]

I never thought about the shards potentially being a statue of Tzeentch oh my gooood. Love that idea

[@euansmith3699]

I was there the day Magnus spilt the Emperor's tea. Maybe there needs to be a Terrible Boyfriend Scale. Tzeench is a 9 on the Bastard Scale, of course.

[@phantasmrain]

Excellent video as always, really enjoy them.

[@Brrrammers]

Been looking forward to this episode since I found this series and it doesn’t disappoint. Lovely stuff!

[@SonofSethoitae]

One thing I always thought was odd, or maybe just interesting, is that Fulgrim is one of the people who tips Magnus off about the true nature of the Council. The Emperor's Children famously don't use Librarians, and yet Fulgrim seems pretty firmly in Magnus' corner. The two have a lot in common, really, but this is a strange place for them to be seeing eye to eye, and then not really see that happen again in the heresy.

[@wolf57024]

The best argument I remember for "Magnus did nothing wrong". Was Magnus did nothing, wrong. There were many nothings he could have done, yet chose the worst one. Even if he had gone to the Emperor on a ship by himself and explained what he saw in a vision it would have ended with him on the Solar system ready to help with the war effort.

[@BeepBoop2221]

He could have obeyed the emperors edict to not use sorcery, he only chose to do that because he wanted to be proven right. He could have travelled to terra to warn the emperor.

[@1989eol]

Why did they not just use the eagles???

[@Nukefandango]

Yeaaaah but that wasn't possible, warp travel is definitely not that reliable.

[@glandhound]

My favourite nothing is what happened after breaking that webway. Instead of proactively trying to make amends, maybe meeting the Wolves fleet in orbit, surrendering peacefully... it's way better to hide in your room weeks on end, waiting for that massive fleet to arrive.

[@onebadfriday]

I love that you have a friend who's smart who loves reading. Its fun running the lore for wh40k. Its fun enjoying literature together. Also you get to talk about what you enjoy.

[@joluoto]

The Spacewolves were basically a bunch of assholes as long as Russ was leading them, as soon as Russ was not in the picture anymore they became awesome bros.

[@FoxHound-ut1hu]

It was Russ who taught them to leave the mantle of executioners behind and become protectors

[@rorypercival4398]

This book was my first lore exposure to Warhammer and I love it. I was confused what an Astartes was...I had only heard of space marines.

[@ryanexsus]

I'm up to Fear To Tread, finished Know No Fear, so I'm a little ahead of this series, but I love yalls perspective on the books. Be really interested what yall think of Prospero Burns after this one.

[@glandhound]

Know no Fear is pretty good, it doesn't leave many questions of who are the bad guys. That scene at the Ultramarines & Word Bearers drinking party was rough. A betrayal so bad that the whole warp went bonkers.

[@boop2908]

Miras getting close to one of the best books in the series. Can't wait for that review.

[@justususalplayer1329]

Ah the book about the worst of the primarchs, yet I lovehate this dork so much, that I've been waiting for this episode

[@SonofSethoitae]

Bold words when Mortarion exists

[@justususalplayer1329]

@@SonofSethoitae at least Mortarion has the most humane features of all primarchs: jealousy ,envy and hypocrisy

[@glandhound]

The best primarchs belong to the second and eleventh legion and that's because we know nothing of them.

[@squaddie67]

I genuinely believe Mira is going to flip her opinion on the Space Wolves once she reads Prospero Burns. Absolutely adore that book and the insights about their whole nature.

[@michaelstevens5712]

For me, Magnus is the "sibling who drinks too much" primarch. It's hard to assign blame or guilt to that at lower levels but when that starts to have negative repercussions it's easy to spot where the problem is. There's a cosmic horror in a lot of addiction stories, and especially with prescription drugs; a reasonable person makes a reasonable decision that removes their ability to be reasonable. Nikea is an intervention pretending to be senate hearing but It feels like a trial for Magnus because he doesn't know who he or his legion is without the warp. Big E needed to get them some easy wins doing something new where their temperament and thirst for knowledge are assets. With all their cultural acumen they'd have made incredible first contact parties.

[@nickmullen2830]

Fenris is a death world full of giant fanged beasts and Kraken like sea serpents so it is a wild place, a bit comparable to Caliban but with Ice.

[@martinausterfield8597]

Been waiting for this. Only started reading the books of the back of this channel, but I skipped ahead to this one and then got annoyed when there wasn’t a book club for it. My afternoons fun sorted now.

[@pmc1727]

“Prior to 2000” they have that handy line about other books that would not draw attention or whatnot that covers post 2000 to my reading.

[@Anghellik9]

One of my favourites. This is the book that made me love the Thousand Sons and despuse the Space Wolves, and Prosperi Burns did little to change that opinion. The Thousand Sons legion were insanely powerful in the Burning of Prospero. They put up a hell of a fight with how high the odds were stacked against them. -Space Wolves legion -Magnus let them get hit with a surprise attack -Tzeentch tries to turn Magnus, he refuses, so Tzeentch says "alright, imma fleshchange them again, then" -Contingent of Custodes -Sisters of silence, their direct countermeasure -Magnus refuses to fight untik literally the last minute -12 titans, plus (according to Lexicanum) 5 Ordo Sinister Psi titans, possibly the most horrendous weapons ever fielded by the Imperium. I have so much more respect for a legion who has an idea for what they're going to do when the war is done, and they can finally lay down their arms. Pity that it will never happen for them

[@glandhound]

Not Magnus for not telling his legion. Not Horus who gave the order to the custodes to destroy the planet and kill Magnus. Not custodes who relayed those orders to the Wolves. It's the space wolves who did everything wrong....

[@philbatchelor9325]

Such a good book. Getting the pov from the space wolves before this, then getting to know the 1k sons and seeing their pov was great.

[@collecter343]

I think this book got me genuinely mad with Magnus deciding his Sons’ fates and actively make it easier for them to get blindsided by the Wolves.

[@nicholaschapman9324]

Cant believe Mira is desperately single, she's adorable! Matchmaking updates in next vid pls

[@Rschaltegger]

Can't wait for Mira to meet...the Kahn...and the White Scars

[@randomacademypilot]

Probably my favorite Horus Heresy book. A tragedy full of hubris.

[@vraska8799]

When i read about the burning of Prospero in A Thousand Sons, i sided with the Thousand Sons. When i read about the burning of Prospero in Prospero Burns, i sided with the Thousand Sons.

[@alanbrooks1200]

To be fair there there is a bit in one of the last few books where Rogal Dorn asks why they weren’t told about the warp and the response he gets is essentially “because it’s your nature that you would’ve tried to comprehend it and inevitably been corrupted”, and that’s to Rogal who is about as grounded and sensible as it’s possible for a Primarch to be. Don’t let your galaxy brained children ponder the warp folks.

[@thomasparker6124]

"Ohthere, stop trying to make 'star-cunning' happen! it's not going to happen!" - Ahirman, probably Also one more down to First Heretic.

[@thomassaxon8254]

It's Nikaea because in Greek the c in Nicaea is always a K. So the Warhammer reference is actually closer than the modern English pronunciation.

[@ArbitorIan]

Interesting! Also, it's quite common for Warhammer words to be like real-world ones but with a few extra letters and slightly different pronunciation

[@thomassaxon8254]

@ArbitorIan it is indeed, but often it's based on real world pronunciation. Often from different languages tbf. Linguistics and Warhammer is a rabbit hole to fall down though.

[@darkora_]

Magnus was told to do nothing and he did that wrong

[@glandhound]

It's sort of surprising that Mira, who is considered the Emperor's biggest fan girl, is very judgemental toward the Space Wolves... does she not realize that the Wolves are the sanctioners of the Emperor himself. They are the old faithful dog who will do everything Mr. E says without question. Whatever Russ does, it's what the Emperor would have wanted. A true Emperor Botherer should understand that Space Wolves can do no wrong.

[@TheExcessus]

One of my favorite Heresy books. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"...

[@CarnageRedemption]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Magnus did nothing wrong. He was told to do nothing, and he did it wrong. Monumentally so. I love his character, he's the pinnacle of arrogance and hubris in 40K for me, and the cornerstone of so many great stories.

[@Empiriarch1945]

Now thinking about it... The Emperor is basically Julius Caesar, Guilliman is Octavian and Horus is Mark Anthony is some way

[@CWright-o6y]

So the Nikaia/Nicaea thing: it's the same name in two transliterations from the Greek alphabet. Nikaia is the best transliteration for use with English and follows the standard conventions, while Nicaea is the ancient Latin version, because Latin didn't have the letter K or use the diphthong "ai". I don't know quite how we ended up with the "nye-see-a" pronunciation, which makes no immediate sense at all, whether from the point of view of ancient or modern Greek pronunciation, Latin pronunciation, or how you would phonetically expect either transliteration to be pronounced in English. My guess, though, is that it comes from the adjective derived from the name, Nicene, which English got to from the Latin Nicaenus. Because of course phonetically that word *would* be most naturally pronounced in English as "nye-seen", and given that the adjective was probably used more often than the name itself (in the context of the Nicene Creed), people may have read that pronunciation back across to the name.

[@OldManRogers]

Also it's not Arhiman, that's a pronunciation issue, 1k sons are northern - Zeck : that the chief wizard? Bob: "Aye Zeck, 'arry man!"

[@LCliffhanger]

To be fair, the bit about the Emperor taking the time to go talk to a priest in a church, that is before the Primarchs are scattered and he has to rush the Crusade because the Thunder Warriors are still around.

[@DOOMTREADER11]

50:49 Mira its gonna take more than holding hands. Maybe some group singing....

[@rdrizzle69]

Another great video as usual thanks Ian and Mira!

[@Haplo699g]

If Big E pulled his head out of his arse and told Magnus what he planned for him it would have saved a lot of bother. In fact you could say that about most of the traitor primarchs...

[@andyroobrick-a-brack9355]

Magnus in particular may have been designed to he impractically curious, if we assume the Primarchs are reoresentations if the Emperor's personallty traits. Nit keeping Magnus clued in on his projects was idiotic on the Emperor's part, especially since he and Magnus had a genuine love for one another.

[@user-ow1bc4sx2r]

Saved a lot of bother and a lot of brothers

[@Aberinkula9]

Also could have made many of loyalist Primarchs made better decisions (looking at you Ferrus, Lion, Russ, Dorn, even Sanguinius)

[@glandhound]

Instead of telling everyone of what to do and what not to do, expecting them to follow his commands... the Master of Mankind, the supreme leader, the ultimate authority, the dictator and the Emperor of Terra should explain his reasons and motivations to everyone.

[@phatgrizzly3520]

Love this book and hate the Magnus did nothing wrong meme. The book goes so hard on the theme that the thousands sons and Magnus’ fatal flaw is their arrogance. He constantly overestimates his control of the warp and we are shown multiple times that the legion only has a shallow understanding of it. There’s even the obvious garden of Eden/forbidden knowledge reference where Magnus is literally being deceived by a snake. And when told not to use the warp. He doesn’t just use his warp powers to warn big e, he crafts a spell bigger and more grandiose then any other spell he has ever made lol.

[@IainDoc15]

I don't know if my perspective is just warped because I read this after reading Path of the Seer, but all I could think is none of the spells they really use are that impressive? Like, the Eldar casually stop time and communicate telepathically across the galaxy all the time. So when I got to the Emperor complaining that the Thousand Sons make fire occasionally and so magic should be banned it just seemed...strange? Especially since he notably never said that *he* should stop using magic

[@phatgrizzly3520]

@@IainDoc15 to be fair, the eldar are exceptionally psychic, and that contributed to their down fall. It’s their extremely strong connection to the warp that caused their debauchery to fuel the birth of slaanesh. They have crazy mastery of the warp and in turn have to take so many safe guards to protect themselves from it, lest their souls be devoured. It’s not just what the thousand sons were doing that led to the banning of the librarian program. It was communing with the warp in general.

[@IainDoc15]

@@phatgrizzly3520 It kind of just reinforces my point that the issue isn't (just) Magnus, it's that the Emperor never bothered to explain Chaos to any of the Primarchs. The eldar are taught about the dangers of the warp and it's treated as similar to going for a swim (ie be careful of the current and keep track of how far you're swimming)

[@yeoboshong]

Podcasts are still on episode 10 only.

[@joerobinson88]

Hey Ian! Love your channel. If you’re looking for recommendations I would LOVE to see your take on ‘The Last Chancers’. I was fascinated with that omnibus as a young teen. Probably not the best written series in 40K but some super interesting concepts. It’s an especially deep cut too as there’s no audio book so basically nobody knows it well! 😂 thanks again

[@bayushiteishiru6291]

Hello guys! Technical question for you, before I forget: what wireless mics are you using? Rode? Kimafun? You sound really clearly and I would like too when discording halfway around the globe, heh. Yes, it is a repost.

[@TurbosTantrums]

IIRC, Hy-Brasil was a mythical Atlantic island that was supposed to be populated by a matriarchal society of warrior women, the Amazons. When IRL Brazil was discovered, it was named after the myth. I think from the "Unification Era Terra" map floating around, the internet, I think what is now Brazil is "Hy-Brazil" by 30k ... There's a minor Eldar craftworld called Iybraesil which is a matriarchal society and I can only assume is also a reference to that.

[@glandhound]

Me being such a bleeding acoustic, I can't let this one go either. Brazil was named after the indigenous tree that had reddish wood, brasil being the portugese word for red. The tree is now known as Brazilwood, then paubrasil (meaning red wood).

[@TurbosTantrums]

@@glandhound i stand corrected

[@Tacsponge]

As a thousand sons fan, I've always been a little uneasy with the potential that "Magnus did nothing wrong" is a reference to Neo-Nazi Holocaust denial. (Who do they think did nothing wrong?) Thanks for the episode, it's been a while since I read the book. The army takes a lot of Love. Painting Ahriman as I listen

[@nickmullen2830]

Ive never heard this line of thought being applied to Neo Nazis anywhere.

[@laurenbastin8849]

Magnus actually appeared as a red wolf to Horus, ironically (cause of Luna wolves)

[@Thetasigmaalpha]

I’m not going to say that Magnus is the very mirror of big E but narcissism thy name is Magnus.

[@adamsharpe1877]

I think that given the depth with which people get to know about the 3 remembrancers, they forget there are MUCH more important things going on for the legion and the Imperium than 3 humans feelings and needs.. Ahriman knows this and tells Lemuel that he doesn't want this. This is much bigger than the lives of 3 remembrancers and they forget they are embroiled within the greater military organization of the Legions.

[@drinksanddice9528]

Someone should date Mira. She seems like a very active and engaged listener, and British accents are fun.

[@earnestwanderer2471]

I’d volunteer for that except I’m about 20 years too old for her. (And yeah, I DO know how old Mira is, which tells you how utterly decrepit I am 🥲)

[@drinksanddice9528]

@earnestwanderer2471 someone should hook her up with Major Kill. She could be the single gal he greets in every video. How do the English feel about Australians? He can be her Magwitch and Ian can be Miss Havisham.

[@Hairy_Phils_Lament]

Enjoying.a fine Prosperan vintage and watching this to see where on the bastard scale Ohthere Wyrdmake lands.

[@glandhound]

One of the worst rune priests!

[@danollerenshaw8410]

Very important not to feed your warp tutelary after midnight

[@ropable]

This book did a superb job of setting up and executing the frustrating tragedy of the Thousand Sons backstory. It also established that the Space Wolves are, canonically, massive dicks.

[@miramanga]

😂

[@shilly39]

As a long time SW fan, this book actually made me feel sorry for the Thousand Scums...I was back to being a dick a couple of minutes later.

[@glandhound]

Magnus, the guy who did everything the exact opposite way of how Emperor wanted is a frustrating tragedy. Russ, who does everything exactly how the Emperor wants is a massive dick. Does this mean the Emperor is a massive dick too?

[@jakewu8268]

@@glandhoundI mean…. Yes?

[@6dragondaddy913]

Growls in wet leopard

[@bragoen]

Can't wait for you both reading Prospero Burns

[@hccdgvvfccdgn993]

This was the first book in the series to get the audio version together with prospero burns.

[@6dragondaddy913]

Tzeentch with the big "just as planned" energy

[@trentonbaird8956]

Wait…did Magnus study sculpture at St Martin’s College!?

[@6dragondaddy913]

Mira REALLY needs to read the story about the Lion stuck in the warp with Nemiel... REALL REALLY needs to read it!

[@jhsimoiv]

Can you continue to add these videos to the book club playlist? I didn't realize you'd put out another book club video.

[@8ball279]

“Platonic Hobby Friends”? Heresy

[@SuperCosmicSpaceMagnet]

I love this series so much! Also I never knew about Mira's charity, neat concept

[@kayosiiii]

I think the whole "Magnus did nothing wrong" thing is stupid. Of course Magnus did wrong, he took part in the great crusade, just like the emperor and everybody else he's a [redacted] war criminal. My personal head cannon is that, Tzeentch was also playing the emperor because he wanted to boost Khorne in the great game. I mean whatever you think of the emperor, it's hard to think how he could have made the galaxy a more welcoming place for Khorne.

[@BoringAngler]

It unfortunately makes a lousy gift if you see these two at a convention, but there's a whole line of "organic/healthy" packaged grocery foods branded as "Cadia." Please no one walk up to Ian or Mira with a frozen gluten free pizza.