HOTD: Official Podcast: S2 Ep. 8: Ryan Condal on the Season Two Finale

Jason and Greta break down the season two finale. They are joined again by showrunner Ryan Condal to discuss that surprising reunion on Dragonstone and whether or not any of our characters can escape their fates.

[@Divine_Chareka]

My GOAT Ramin Djawadi delivered once again with his music in this episode. I got actual goosebumps when the score kicked in towards the end of the episode.

[@ochaocha779]

Same!

[@AnthonyPi1999]

I think the score is out tomorrow or this coming Friday! 🎉

[@buffalosoldier2623]

Omg that was so awesome the season was worth it for that amazing moment!! I will remember it forever!

[@Divine_Chareka]

​@@AnthonyPi1999 it is already here!

[@SonderDAzeX]

Ramin Djawadi is THE PRIncE THAT WAS PROMISED

[@Shubh_RKO]

The only one who was super happy in season finale was Caraxes after seeing his crush Syrax and his homie Seasmoke. He was like "Good to see u guys. Harrenhall has me creeped out

[@-trisld-]

And pork!!! 🎉😂

[@cijishippley]

lolol

[@yylfordt6125]

I often forget the Dreamfire & Silverwing are literally the mothers of all the dragons 😂 & that's not only are most of the dragons siblings, but several has definitely fucked each other hahaha

[@SonderDAzeX]

He might've been jealous that Syrax was with her ex-boo

[@thedarkknight2221]

Abubakar Salim FUCKING KILLED IT as Alyn in his speech to Lord Corlys. As someone whose own father abandoned me and my mother I know exactly where he’s coming from. And like him I would rather “decline any offers of help” from him.

[@qbpumas12]

Go to therapy, let go…

[@thedarkknight2221]

@@qbpumas12 already did, and it lead me to be happy by moving past that dipshit. And I can be angry with him without letting that anger hold me back, because I can compartmentalize.

[@drsavage3262]

If you love Abu then you should check out "Raised by Wolves" if you haven't already. It's a trippy show but totally unique and worth the watch! Cheers

[@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δ]

-clears throat- I said whooooooo -voice cracks- oooo baby. Bae, I love you. You're my everything.

[@rebeccao8895]

❤ For me it’s my mother. I feel exactly where you’re coming from. I had to forgive her for the sake of my mental health but we’re not in touch. As my 51st birthday approaches I know I’m a better human being without her in my life. Sending positive vibes your way, dear.

[@yikelu]

Criston Cole's speech actually blew me away. Positively Shakespearean.

[@dirtyduck10]

Emo Cole we all going to die

[@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δ]

​@@dirtyduck10I am loving Criston this season.

[@marceloperez7350]

Bro what ? 🤣 fkn lame

[@DavidAlvarado-jb6oq]

HE IS A LAME CARACTER

[@birinderwarraich1179]

Yeah but that shit does not make any sense for a kingsgaurd to openly say he fucked the queen and other oath breaking shit.

[@TihetrisWeathersby]

Ser Alfred broome betrayaling Rhaenyra only for Daemon to bend the knee was hilarious

[@DyeHard79]

See Ser Alfred Slink away with that shady back slide as Daemon kneeled he's up to something BAD!

[@ac2244]

You copied this comment from someone else. Copy cat.

[@TihetrisWeathersby]

@@ac2244 from who?

[@ceciarchi4674]

Book Daemon would have has his head

[@yylfordt6125]

Then for him to slowly start walking away during the middle of Daemon's speech 😂

[@purgejmi]

I am so dissapointed. All of the build up and none of the payoff. We gotta wait two years to see it. Why were there only 8 episodes this season but 10 in season one? Those two episodes should have been ths giant battle and the wrap up in episode 10 of season 2.

[@zarinaromanets7290]

Presumably the writers strike affected what they could pull off well this season, so they're probably wanting to do the battles justice and put it in the next season now that the writers are back.

[@purgejmi]

@zarinaromanets7290 That sounds like bs to me. They couldn't have gotten any lore masters or anyone who could do battles? Seems more likely to me that now that HBO has a game if thrones replacement show they want to stretch it as much as they possibly can. It wouldn't surprise me if we saw the battle that should have been in episode 9 of season 2 in episode 7/8 or 6/8 of season 3 to stretch it out as much as possible to get as many seasons as possible from this relatively short book story.

[@zarinaromanets7290]

@purgejmi Oh I agree that they're stretching the books, I don't think they were planning this much filler in the first season. I really hope it doesn't derail like The Witcher, but they are having Martin be lead writer on this so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

[@Onlytalents001]

@@purgejmi 4 seasons is not that much. Your complaints are, “i want dragon battles, i want a big fight” Wtf this is? Marvel? How many big battles GOT had? We have one in season 2, then none until season 4. Like, are y all fried in the head? GOT season 7 is full of battles, so does season 8. Season 7 was the start of the decay. Because they rushed to the point all characters been destroyed. The pacing of this show is very good. They can make 10 seasons for this show. I like seeing westerosi world on tv. People like you destroy the experience for all of us. With your nerdy ass books. Can you people stop yapping for a second?

[@dfkfgjfg]

Is it really that hard to just Google something in 2024?? They had to cut the last two episodes because of budget reasons. They didn't want to. They also apparently weren't affected by the writer's strike because they'd already finished writing and the writers didn't need to be on set, only producers

[@-trisld-]

Very pleased with the spiritual nuances being developed with Helaena, Daemon, Alys

[@Kiki-ps8lu]

I understand Martin's frustration. Except for Aegon, Otto and Gwayne, I don't feel like caring about any of these characters anymore. Alicent is not recognizable at all. Rhaenyra needs 7 episodes to actually do something. Daemon was dreaming the whole season. Corlys was stuck at that one dock. Deaths had no impact save for one or two episodes (compare this to Aemma and Viserys in season 1!), dead rat catchers were more important than poor Jaeherys, Corlys forgave Rhaenys' death quickly. ... what happened? :(

[@LuMoRo34]

Now we just need GRRM understanding ours........

[@monicad99]

@@LuMoRo34 ahaaaaa, ryan condal being all like “you kill our baby, we kill yours” type of thing. a hero of the people, of th smallfolk…. i actually think i did like this episode though. also, i feel like this was a season where they were trying many new technical things. also, maybe saving for the next one, where all the major battles will happen (i suppose). it was an intermediary season, ultimately. and sometimes, you’ve got to have those, too.

[@suddenimpulse030]

Martin who complimented multiple characters being written better than in his own book for this very season earlier on his blog? that one? yes he has issues with the dragons understandable.

[@fidalf99]

I hear you but the ratcatchers being more important than an innocent Jaeherys was kinda the point about what kind of person Otto is.

[@Kiki-ps8lu]

@@suddenimpulse030 He does not intend to show up to the writers' meeting for season 3 and complained about television writers not caring about the source material, thinking they know better than the author of the book. I don't think you see the massive red flag here.

[@hay6s]

Ryan's part starts at 46:23

[@MattyCamachio]

Yeah mf needs to explain himself, he’s butchering characters

[@FrutiCharles]

@@MattyCamachio lmao you book purists are so annoying

[@MattyCamachio]

@@FrutiCharles never read the book nerd

[@georgerrtolkien801]

Thank you bröthrr

[@JayJay-de5jv]

Thanks

[@r.beeeee]

“The city is yours, Princess. But you will not hold it long. The rats play when the cat is gone, but my son Aemond will return with fire and blood.” They killed Alicent and Aemond's relationship, she was the only one who defended him when he lost his eye. Not even Viserys did (he forced Aemond to look at him with his remaining eye). #justiceforjaehaerys

[@scarlettmorgan2938]

Prince Regent Aemond just recently expressed his desire for his grandfather, Otto Hightower, to become a reinstated Acting Hand during King Aegon’s convalescence, when Lord Larys Strong unsuccessfully attempted to nominate himself for the position. Likewise, Dowager Queen Alicent had also quizzed Sir Gwayne about Otto being incommunicado. So yes, Otto was out of sight, but he certainly was never out of Green Team mind as the Podcasters’ mistakenly imply. Larys could also certainly be responsible for Otto’s imprisonment.

[@CraigKostelecky]

It seems clear that Condal and his team were greatly restricted by budget cuts from HBO/WBD. I fully believe they had this season planned for 10 episodes with the two events they strongly hinted at this episode as the epic conclusion to this season. Of course Condal would not say anything like this publicly as he wants to remain on board to finish the story. Let's just hope that Warner Bros. Discovery will give them the necessary resources to make the rest of this series.

[@sigil5772]

Look, I think we need to talk about Alicent: she's lost her grandson, hideously; her dad has been banished; she's had to flee from smallfolk rioting; her second son has shown himself a cold-hearted psycho; she's been ignored at and kicked off the small council; she's tried to deal with her guilt over and has split up with Cole; her eldest boy has been a useless wastrel who's now crippled and horribly burnt and turns out not to be the Aegon Viserys was talking about and set every mistake she's made in motion; and yet, after all of that, she turns up to Dragonstone after sneaking out of KL and taking a secret sea-voyage _with her hair looking like she just spent $500 in the most high-class salon in the world_ - maybe her decision to just accept her fate whatever the cost has been good for her health.

[@justinpyke1756]

Ryan's underlining of season 2 as the march to war in a feudal setting was so fantastic. I appreciated it as a military historian. The finale was an excellent blend of payoffs, mainly with characters, and setup for the war to come. I've seen a lot of people mad they didn't get another giant battle, not understanding that without this setup it wouldn't have been satisfying in the slightest. Also seemingly forgetting that the season finales of GoT almost never had giant events, they were mostly about wrapping up after the penultimate episode's payoff fiesta and setting up for the next season. The push for cheap and fast gratification is a significant part of what drove season 7-8 of GoT into the dumpster. It took multiple seasons for many major GoT pay-offs to happen - four seasons from the first mention of a "king beyond the wall" before there was a spectacular battle, four seasons for Joffery's death, three seasons for the end of Rob Stark's arc, etc.

[@DavidAlvarado-jb6oq]

DO NOT COMPARE SHOWS, PLEASE

[@vanadium6021]

I loved the finale too - until the credits rolled. The buildup is great yes, but if they had one more episode they could've easily had one or two major events/battles take place (without spoiling the books). I was expecting one of them to occur right at the end too! HBO should not have cut the season down to 8 episodes, and it's unlucky they did so right before the writers strike.

[@hal-fi8mo]

I agree that the season makes perfect sense as a need for the practical leadup, but I think what let everyone down is that they didn't sell the season as the march to war during press junkets and such. They made it seem like it would be the start of the war, "Rhaenyra has war in her eyes" in the finale of season 1 and such. And to be fair we did get some stuff, B&C, Rook's Rest, the dragonseeds. But people were expecting more big clashes, so I understand why they felt that there wasn't "payoff".

[@DavidAlvarado-jb6oq]

disagree, great storytelling captivates you, keeps you entertained, keeps you wanting for more. that didnt happen this season

[@ZWoof-rk8fl]

Each and every time that Jason or Greta laughs hysterically at things that are not funny whatsoever, I imagine in my mind every listener to the podcast not laughing at all. I sincerely hope they will stop doing this for S3. It ruins an otherwise interesting discussion.

[@dustin2207]

they are cringe

[@Cunnysmythe]

Jason especially is painful to listen to They were right to change his co-host, maybe he won't be around next season

[@farakhhanif]

I am pretty sure that Alicent asked Otto to go to Highgarden and talk with the Tyrells. I am assuming that he has been captured by House Beesbury whos lord was murdered at the small council meeting by Criston Cole when he refused to go along with the rest of the council's plan to put Aegon on the throne. They have been openly rebelling against House Hightower in the reach.

[@emilys4281]

Good point. When the podcasters proposed Otto was being held by Lady Jane in the Eyrie I thought, wouldn't he have been held in one of the sky cells, not in a dungeon? Because he looked to be in a dark dungeon cell.

[@jpking0]

That’s exactly what my prediction is. I’m thinking he’s been captured by Beesbury supporters, and possibly they mix his rescue with Daemon’s battle victory on Tessarion, or Daemon rescues him in some fashion and gets knighted by Otto.

[@MsSecretPoet]

This season finale is like being edged over and over and over again and just as you’re sure it’s time… they tell you to wait 2 more years of nothing at all to then be able to finish. Ugh 😤

[@LamonShyne]

It’s not nothing at all tho. We’re literally getting another show in between

[@shravansujith4307]

It reminds me of Attack on Titan S4 phase. They keep edging us with fewer and fewer eps each year. Like S4 part 1 , Part 2 , Part 3 part 1 like fu*k ?? 😂

[@brookswilliams5239]

Well yeah but then imagine the climax when you finally are able to 😅😅

[@Silveralways1]

Is it possible that Daemon sees the back of Dany with her dragons, and interpreted it as Rhaenyra.

[@lucidmemory4146]

For sure.

[@omgzfuup]

Or another descendant

[@nyxstalgia]

I am kind of disappointed with the season finale. A few really great conversations happened but it was overall uneventful and felt like an hour long trailer / set up for season 3

[@suddenimpulse030]

ridiculous notion

[@rsync9490]

I agree and not ridiculous at all. Seemed like an episode 8 of a 10 episode season. I mean if it came off of the rush of a great episode 7, then it would be a fine season finale but episode 7 was all right not great.

[@askyeyv7039]

@@rsync9490 exactly, it feels like a proper set up for episode 9 / 10 which were meant to be battle of gullet. Then they just moved those for s3 and kept ep8 the same as it was meant to be. Ridiculous

[@ader701220]

Well... they did this all 7 seasons of GOT every finale feels like a trailer

[@nyxstalgia]

@@ader701220 i have to disagree, from all of the trailer-esque finales this one was the most uneventful. dont get me wrong still good, but left us feeling "thats it?"

[@monie3558]

RIP Nettles, your were the most interesting dragonrider from the dance despite the writers trying to spit on you RIP Rhaena, you would’ve loved having normal screentime and the storyline you deserved which is your own

[@T0FFII]

"RIP Rhaena" yes the character who's now getting a dragon an will clearly have a much bigger influence going forward. Do me a favor on Nettles, literally simpin over a side character.

[@Goldenaerrows]

⁠@@T0FFIIif Nettles is so unimportant than why are you claiming Rhaena is getting “bigger influence”😂😂 Rhaena is a unique character also because she hatches her dragon Morning and is the only Targaryen riding a dragon after the dance. It’s been taken from her to whitewash Rhaenyra calling Nettles a creature becusee Daemon cared about the girl and now their story is ruined. You have to get over it that we will point it out and Nettles is always a fan fave.

[@Seven_Kingdoms77]

@@T0FFII You must be kidding, no fan would respond like this when the show is spitting on what made Rhaena so pivotal because in the end she has the last dragon Morning, Nettles was essential during the Dance of the Dragons and was apart of multiple battles riding on Sheepstealer, while also having a romantic relationship with Daemon. She’s far from a side character, get it correct love.

[@monie3558]

@@T0FFII Ah yes Rhaena’s bigger influence where they stripped away every written for her in Fire & Blood so they can……give her 2 minutes of screentime in this entire season and erase Nettles who we all were waiting to see

[@CilyOnTheRun]

@@monie3558 We don't get Nettles, we don't get Morning. Crimes have been committed by the writing team. This is fanfiction at this point.

[@CilyOnTheRun]

RIP Alicent. You were a great character in season 1.

[@mr.duanesharpe]

Loved both of em in season 1. Now they are just mannequins with emotions.

[@suddenimpulse030]

Yeah they are making her a fantastic character. Sad you illiterates can't see it.

[@mayhem2648]

​@@suddenimpulse030 iliterates? You prob didnt touch Fire and Blood lol if you think that this writing is fantastic

[@longling194]

​@@suddenimpulse030 Condom ruined her

[@torelarsenn]

@@suddenimpulse030 Oh please, she is the worst and most inconsistent character ever written in this universe. She litterally forces Aegon to usurp Rhaenyra, tries to brainwash him to hating her, and then causes him to burn down and then does a 180 degree turn and joins team Rhaenyra and throws Aegon under the bus in the process. What the fck is this? If they will have this silly fanfiction: they should atleast have Alicent confess that she forced Aegon to usurp the throne and for Rhaenyra to take her head for her crimes instead of her poor broken son.

[@mavi_yt]

Imagine if this whole team and production made shows about actual history. I would have been paying attention in my history classes all along... So invested in this imaginary world I read every book, watch every show that comes out and have been listening to all your podcast -by the way, great work you guys. Can't wait for what's to come.

[@bonka_mann]

Yikes

[@henri191]

"There will be no mercy, we fight for our queen" - what a pleasure, he's back, the man, Daemon 😂

[@Seven_Kingdoms77]

I guess Ryan Condal is going to say Nettles never existed in the book like WTH why remove her??

[@-trisld-]

How do you know nettles never happens? Maybe rhaena meets her or something...I have no idea but with this gig anything can happen

[@jpstapylton]

They haven't removed Nettles I think they've just replaced her with Rhaena I'm guessing she will find sheepstealer and finally get herself a dragon ❤

[@chrisretzlaff2895]

Not that I know, but I'm hoping, that because we didn't see her on Sheepstealer, that Nettles could make an appearance at the beginning of season 3. She just seems to be an important character with important interactions

[@skanam05]

I think after watching the backlash of not having nettles and giving her storyline to rhaena they might bring her next season. Who knows they must have shot rhaena claiming and mounting on sheepstealer but edited out last min. bcoz of this. Bcoz it felt weird she struggling to find the dragon since 2 episodes and ending it just watching him horridly and not showing us how she claimed a wild dragon. They wont keep that for next season they will directly show her flying with him if nettles is really not coming even after so much uproar from fans.

[@WarrenEBB]

I'd wager that instead of exploring Nettles as lowborn badass mistress, and a form of Daemon betraying Rhaenyra - they are going to explore Daemon supporting his daughter Rhaena as she struggles to assert herself as more than a weak nothing that everyone always assumed of her.

[@mydreaminorbit9297]

Team Greens motivation is to simply not die at this point. As an audience member the miscommunication that led to the weakest motivation for Team Greens claims. Shows it's ugly head this episode. The inbalance is so skewed to one side that it really is uninteresting. I love how Rhaenera was like, yeah Alicent do you realize you make no sense during that last conversation between them.

[@Ivbo]

Yeah, I don’t understand why they made the entire green claim about a misunderstanding between Alicent and Viserys…the whole point of the green claim is that Aegon is the first born son of the King, it has nothing to do with Viserys’ wishes. Aegon has a very strong claim to the throne (possibly the strongest claim) that’s why the war happens, it’s tradition and precedence vs a dead King’s favouritism. This season they have Aemond of all people use the word “usurped” when talking about Alicent crowning Aegon…like what? In what world would anyone on the green side consider themselves usurpers, when the whole point of their cause is that they believe themselves to be the rightful heirs to the throne. It’s becoming painfully obvious that the writers of this show don’t really understand the story, or if they do they’re refusing to be fair and honest about it.

[@mydreaminorbit9297]

@@Ivbo I agree, they needed to double down on Otto and his reasons for the crown. Everyone on Team Green should have been steadfast about this claim. Instead they tried to keep Alicent relevant for as long as possible with this misunderstanding. It not only made little sense but made Alicents character appear crazy. I'm not a book reader so I don't know how the story goes in the book. However the show really fumbled the ball in setting up both sides in a compelling way by the end of this season. Aemond is running around like a headless chicken, Cole is ready to die, Alicent wants to run away, Otto is in prison, Aegon has ran away, Haelena knows the ending. The Green side is completely dismantled.

[@Morfe02]

Im from another country and even I can see how they bad writing this Alicent wants to surrender the City by COMMAND the guards emmm she knows all the goldencloaks work for Daemon ? Or the fact they free dragonseeds into boats ? Or the fact they Will surrender ANYWAYS because the Blacks have 3 dragons going to the City You can't argue that, UNLESS his Brother is the Lord Command as the books but stil the same result if Alicent say something or NOT They try to sell her as a BIG PLAYER and is just Cersei but dumber

[@zarinaromanets7290]

My takeaway from the scene where she tells the council what she thought she heard was that they were gonna do this coup all along, they're so schem-ey they probably thought she made it up to sound like she's on board with it. Otto has been the one pulling strings to set his blood on the throne since the first, I don't think he'd stop if Alicent told him otherwise. It's more to do with her feeling justified in joining her dad's plans and the 'heart at conflict with itself' as Martin says he likes to write about.

[@Δ-Δ-Δ-Δ]

​@@mydreaminorbit9297In the book, Rhaenyra's claim rests on the fact her father chose her as heiress. Aegon's claim rests on him being the oldest son. Sons coming before daughters in the succession of most of Westeros. Aemond and Alicent take the mantle in the book at this point, while Aegon heals. When Aemond goes to The Riverlands, it's Alicent herself who holds sh¡t together. She's super into crowning Aegon in the book. She remains a Green till the end.

[@harlemknight120]

Waited 8 episodes for this season to get started, and I am still waiting. 😏

[@thundernuggies1980]

And so our watch begins 🫡

[@Seetha-Golden]

More like our watch ended. This finale sucks! This season sucks! They made us wait for two years for this??? 😡

[@Little_Vampiregirl]

@@Seetha-Golden never did they spend the whole 2 years for these few boring and bad written episodes. I don't get what took so long.

[@weaks7390]

Okay, i rewatched the episode. It was good. IM just pissed off i gotta wait 2 years. I guess that means the writers did a good job? Time will tell.

[@the600squad6]

It’s a good episode, wish they just had season 3 and 4 already out, it wouldn’t have been review bombed like this 😭

[@constitutionalcarrot3720]

Any way Daemon may have interpreted seeing Dany in his vision as Rhaenyra? Since Daemon left, Rhaenyra has hatched 3 new dragon riders…

[@Sleepycollegestudent]

I was thinking that too. However, bloodraven might be purposefully misleading him into believing the long night is right around the corner. That’s why he’s willing to throw himself behind Rhaenyra.

[@fy4b230]

Episode was fine, kinda weak for a season finale without a big penultimate episode preceding it. That ending montage kinda pissed me off because it literally had all 3 battles people were theorizing on which one would end this season. Fiahfeed, Gullet and Kings Landing. All season people have been trying to figure which of those 3 would be the finale and we got none, but all the set up for all 3 in a montage. Ugh. Beginning of season 3 gonna be kinda crazy and cost a boatload of money….however 2 year wait now.

[@jackson857]

45:54 Ormund is Otto's nephew, not his brother. His brother was Hobert and he died sometime during season 1.

[@jdh5224]

We're onto you, Ryan Condal!

[@fightronin3753]

Fun and informative podcast!!!! Keep up the great work!!!!

[@FionasTeaParty]

I have thoroughly enjoyed this podcast this season. I especially love Jason’s episode overviews, they are hilarious! The overview of the previous episode and this one is just GOLD! Excellent work, Jason, Greta, and team. I can’t wait until the next season.

[@aaronhall5715]

Loved my mondays of Season 2 then the podcast and all the BTS pieces. I'll miss it until season 3. Can't wait.

[@mr.nobody5653]

The first half of the season I was locked in. But then it started to drag and give us nothing new. Last episode was ALL buildup with no payoff and waiting 2 years for the payoff is upsetting and insulting

[@eljeferaider]

I liked the season. Except for killing sunfyre and not showing dreamfyre in the finale or more of sheepstealer being claimed or not.

[@drewgotta4104]

Sunfyre is not dead

[@umiboibozu]

@@drewgotta4104 we can only hope...

[@yasmingirl17]

The opening of the show hints at Sunfyre not being dead. There’s a lot of black blood that comes out of Meleys’ body, but a small pool of red blood comes out of Sunfyre

[@Little_Vampiregirl]

they should've given us proper scenes with Sheepstealer and Daemons daughter, not the mud wrestling or Rhaenyra and Alicent meeting that was completely illogical anyway. Bad writing..

[@ShadAndrettiTV]

Season 2 was a disappointment they better deliver S3

[@dawsonlucas369]

Ser Cristin Cole had the best scene in the whole episode it was vulnerable, thought provoking, and depressing

[@madgodprince]

Anyone else remember in S1E9 when Alicent placed herself between Meleys and Aegon? No? Good cause Alicent doesn't either.

[@88happiness]

Nothing happens next week...😅

[@PlanetRoss365]

So... Same as the last eight weeks...

[@piouskafui1441]

And so our watch begins 😢😢

[@maxwiidanen7281]

@@piouskafui1441your watch* im reading the book and putting this story behind me

[@melindaburns980]

Looking forward to season 3 .

[@melindaburns980]

We need to see Rhaenyra's son Ageon take the throne and eventually Rhaenyra's other Son Viserys takes the Throne.

[@kevinhart8339]

So proud of netw3rk ... from Ask the Maester to the Official Podcast. Well earned and deserved.

[@superpael]

You know what no one will say after this episode? "Wow that was satisfying."

[@nadiavillar]

Ryan Condell is the only one that “felt fun” to include Tayland Lanister irrelevant 10-minutes-sequence in a finale🙄

[@Little_Vampiregirl]

yes, the scenes were just time wasting bullshit. Same with another meeting between Rhaenyra and Alicent no one asked for. The problem here was not the budget, rather the not so talented authors. Season 2 was a desaster most of the time.

[@kurtgoldstein3254]

So what was the point in all of this then? Worst last season episode ever.

[@clintbarton2376]

I love how their energy is trying to make this season finale sounds like an exciting episode 😂😂

[@the600squad6]

Was a great episode, just cannot be a finale for building up to a war like that so it was disappointing in that regard

[@Al-ji4gd]

@@the600squad6 It was a crap episode.

[@-trisld-]

When they don't deal well with character arcs ppl bitch (got s8) yet here in hotd s2, they clear up and set up everything .... very ready to go for s3....and ppl bitch. I think s3 is going to be very intense and ppl will eat have to eat their hats. It would have been bad to not have a gestalt on who was what-ing where why with whom for the coming s3/4. Lots of stuff happens next, as book readers know. (There's an idea...read the books). It's nothing simple... laying the groundwork, allocating the money, logistics for all departments for the battles, dragon stuff, character arcs etc of the next 2 seasons is a monumental task. Those who've read the book know this. The show has to be a unified sweep of events for ppl who haven't read the books. It must be emotionally cohesive, not just flashy and gory. Im glad they're dragging it out, setting the stage. Don't assume anything. We have become spoiled, now that technology has advanced to where so much can be achieved... with striking results. It's very very captivating. That is our new appetite. But remember, just cuz it looks fantastic and is doable doesn't mean it's easy. This shit is extremely involved...both technically and logistically. I don't want our discourse to be spoiled by ppl who enjoyed being negative about got s8. Especially in the US, negativity had too big an airing (not just GOT, but everything got divisive for years) and all the assholes loved it. Enjoy our impossible but miraculously present dragon world. Watch 'house that dragons built'. Be truly aware of what all these incredibly talented people do! Every dept. ..... amazing beautiful shit. And hold on to your socks, cuz based on what I know from the books, s3 will be worth the wait. (Btw have they confirmed it will be 2y? I'm not so sure about that)

[@thelizardsdorule2023]

>I think s3 is going to very intense and ppl will have to eat their hats In TWO YEARS!.. Every season of GoT 1-6 had 10 episodes, and way more happened every episode. 8 episodes wasn't enough for Season 7 of Game of Thrones, and its definitely not enough for House of the Dragon. Legitimately look at what happened over these past 8 weeks with an objective lens, _very little_ actually took place, and the season finale was more like a mid-season episode than like a season finale. No one would be complaining if there were 2 more episodes left in the season

[@madelynngrace5323]

ryan thanks so much for doing exactly what d&d did! making the show separate from the books. you had one job to go into more depth within this already beautifully written story. this is not your story to ruin.

[@DyeHard79]

Like the Variety Review said i was obsessively looking at the time- is 30 min enough time for a battle? Well thers still 20 min left, 10, 8, 4 min is enough right?....Fuck! But Goddamn i loved every second!

[@deborahhomer3106]

Tyland had his true Tyrion moment. 😅

[@GeowulfX]

There are Targaryens on both sides that have acted no differently from Ulf. Be ready to hold a beer.

[@jenniferkelly3941]

Love your work! Well done! 👍

[@Althorr]

Blue balls finale 😂😂

[@JuanBahiaBlanca]

DEFINITELY IS NOT EASY TASK TO PUT ICE AND FIRE UNIVERSE IN A TV SHOW... IT WILL NEVER BE THE SAME 😢

[@toxicmasculinity78]

Them justifying their fanfiction Alicent throwing Aegon under the bus just proves to me that the inmates are running the asylum.

[@T0FFII]

Season 3 gonna be epiiiiccccc

[@DavidAlvarado-jb6oq]

great storytelling captivates you, keeps you entertained, keeps you wanting for more. that didnt happen this season

[@fraliexb]

44:00 Otto was supposed to visit Highgarden (suggested by the Dowager Queen), so maybe the Tyrell's have Otto?

[@DyeHard79]

@@fraliexb what if he never left kings landing? I kinda felt like Larys kidnapped him and is transporting him to Essos lol

[@melindaburns980]

I think the Starks have Otto Treasonous Hightower

[@melindaburns980]

Team Emma Darcy Team Black

[@val-xz]

The prophecy cheapens the show and most characters because everything must be about the prophecy to tie the show to GOT and Dany. Why can't this show be its own thing? People loved the characters and would be interested in the show without seeing the White walkers whose end was very underwhelming in the original show. What's the point? And Team green is not even a team anymore, they are completely ruined. Many people loved their dynamics, myself included, and now there is practically nothing exciting in the show for us. People stop watching and won't be returning for the next season. And maybe the numbers of team Green are not big, but it's still 10-20% according to the polls, so why reject part of your audience like that? It was supposed to be a civil war for the throne where both sides do bad things, not the saviors of the world vs the evil. And my god, why is Ryan Condal saying that "everybody wanted to see Rhaenyra and Alicent's meeting so we had to find a way", when lots of people dont even like their relationship which drag the show down and ruin the characters? They had to make Aemond the worst for this meeting to happen, well done, I guess. Aemond's was so interesting last season and many people wanted to see him, but Ryan Condal didn't care.

[@wKFaded]

bro the whole story of a song of ice of fire is built on prophecy since aegons conquest all the way to dany and jon in the main story. Knight of the seven kingdoms is going to connect all 3 shows through prophecy. Obv GRRM has been in the writers room helping these 2 seasons come along. I think you are the one who doesnt understand.

[@hmm_1228]

@@wKFaded GRRM is credited in every episode of HoTD but he's not there writing it. He literally wrote a blog post about how show writers are pretentious know-it-alls who think they can do better than the source material, but actually make it 100x worse. Why would he write such a post if he's in the writer's room "helping these 2 seasons come along" as you say? And the prophecy does take away from what the Dance really is: a succession crisis and dragon civil war. And must it always connect back to GoT? Why can't it stand on its own merit? It's a really interesting story already as most succession crises are, so why must it piggyback on a show that ended in a fart? Really shows to me that Ryan Condal, Sarah Hess and others are just not confident with the way they're adapting the show, which is utter bollocks since the characters' fates have been set in stone, they just have to fill in the gaps.

[@wKFaded]

@@hmm_1228 you have no idea he was talking about HOTD in that blog nobody does because he never actually says HOTD he was talking in general terms. Yes taking nettles out is disappointing but they must have a plan and reason for it we just can't see it now. I give them benefit of the doubt since you can't have every character and every plot line adapted to screen. Considered what fire and blood is they have done a great job in my opinion compared to benioff and Weiss who had 5000 pages of character driven dialog. The acting is on another level compared to let's say wheel of time or rings of power just thank the gods we don't have them show runners

[@jeremyruh5219]

After 2 great episodes, this is a poor episode. 2 years to wait for the new season. Ryan Condal really had an underwhelming effort for this finale

[@ebalona5828]

I could imagine that show this level could be written so bad

[@eagerow1]

Looking forward to waiting 2 years for more off-screen battles and people staring pensively into the distance. Take the L Ryan....dithering is an apt description of what we just watched.

[@isaiahjones9528]

It was not a smart and good choice to gender swap Lohar, regardless of a modern audience's they should have stuck by the book of Fire and Blood. If they wanted a actual woman to act as pirate they could have made Lohar's second in command or first mate a woman. There you go I really feel like they are stepping away from the book.

[@Cunnysmythe]

I do quite like the casting but I think because of certain sensibilities they're forced to make the character female. The actress does a good job of walking the line of the book character, but they squandered it

[@isaiahjones9528]

@@Cunnysmythe I see what your saying I just wish they did better

[@Cunnysmythe]

@@isaiahjones9528 I do agree they should have made the character a man I thought they had before I listened to this podcast

[@Little_Vampiregirl]

@@Cunnysmythe they aren't forced, surely most people would have liked it if they stayed true to the book characters. I bet it was Hess' idea -.-

[@Cunnysmythe]

@@Little_Vampiregirl I say forced as a figure of speech. Nobody's sensibilities forced them to do anything, but you know as progressive showrunners in progressive Hollywood in current day that they would make that kind of choice.

[@gushterell7989]

-There is definitely character evolution if you know to analyze them. Daemon being at Harrenhall definitely evolved his arc and was necessary for his character. As for Rhaena's plot, wtf is she doing? -I hate useless shock value things like Meleys bursting through the floor, Vhagar using stealth and teleportation to kill Meleys. Triarchy fight scene seems added later in the plot development and also useless. Mysaria and Larys don't use ''little birds", how do they spy? In the original GoT this is shown while having dialogue between characters and pushing the plot forward. Melinda Massey is wearing a red cloak just for the trailer to make us think there will be a red priestess in the show. -Cinematography is great, but I miss the vibrant colors of the original first 4 Got seasons. Please more natural vibrant colors while outdoor. -The GoT has so many scenes were multiple things happen: Tywin scolding his children, planning future war moves, great dialogue while writing the letter to the Freys. HoT should have more of this. -I do understand that there was a budgetary limit and had to make do. Writers guild strike might have affected the plot, but for those who don't know, for every Matt Smith or any other actor paid millions, there are thousands of people who work in the background to create shows who barely can make ends meet. Everybody deserves to have a reasonable salary and sustain their family.

[@blissbased]

"Mysaria and Larys don't use ''little birds", how do they spy?" - Of course they do. Kids from the street and servants in the Red Keep. It's made very obvious in at least 3 episodes.

[@rp7251]

Ryan Condal wrote on Rampage and Hercules, pffft . He is not a showrunner. No Miguel Sapochnik? Other writers include someone who wrote on one episode of the Acolyte and the other writer wrote on House MD. WTF?

[@hmm_1228]

Lol that explains a lot

[@callam4336]

literally just saw this after looking at his IMDB and wondering who could fuck this up that badly. I'm not even kidding @HBO, you can pay me dog shit money and I'd do better than this goober

[@Little_Vampiregirl]

it's a bad joke, really. I wonder why they didn't hire good and talented authors, as if they wouldn't get them for such a big show. So sad and frustrating. They write on a Got season 8-level

[@w00t777]

So, Rhaeneyra weeks to travel to Kings Landing to sneak a meeting with Alicent, but Alicent teleports to Dragonstone to meet her? i guess she is also teleporting back, sinxe she asks rhaeneyra to fly there to kings landing in 3 days to take the city. 😅😅😅 their conversation and meeting is also one of the worst television we've seen. 😂 for a mother to suddenly throw both her sons under the bus just tonsave herself 😅

[@user-nv2wt4hi8t]

Dialogue is generally good but the characterisation is becoming baffling and Rhaenyra and, to a lesser degree, Allicent, being relentlessly portrayed as peaceful pacifists after the venom and tension they were shown to brew in season 1 is really starting to become silly. Especially given how cruel and ambitious they are in the books. Whereas in the show, suddenly all the men are the warmongers.

[@w00t777]

one word to sum up the season "lame"

[@Morfe02]

Man why do you think or say "intelligent stuff" when you change or WASH THE DANCE OF DRAGONS isnt the whole point of the war the meaningless of the fight because Aegon AND RHAENYRA are cruel tyrants ? Or the fact is war started because of TWO WOMEN two mothers No no now is because a prophecy and they read bad (Alicent) a prophecy and Daemon/Rhaenyra now they are the GOOD GUYS. Also Alicent wants to kill Aegon why not BAD WRITING i love some changes but making the whole show a fan-trailer of Game of Thrones when the ending HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PROPHECY is beyond ridiculous

[@ukjetsfan654]

Anticipation is half the fun - it’s all very nicely poised …….. for two years lol

[@gandalfdengra5580]

Hire more competent writers and stop wasting our time.

[@Little_Vampiregirl]

they won't, unfortunately.

[@cameronmccollough98]

They should have shown Amond destroying the city in the start of the episode.

[@dustin2207]

100%

[@magicdee]

Imagine being robbed of the bloodiest, deadliest, most loathsome sibling rivalry in Westerosi history and getting a show about two women that worked it out on the remix

[@Nercus31]

I don’t think Ulf would be a problem: just give him 2 hours with Daemon and he will be in line ;-)

[@Sleepycollegestudent]

And as soon as daemon leaves the room?

[@erykado]

Just curious, blood raven, the three eyed raven or whoever works with the weir wood tree sees the past not the future. Damon sees the future. Helena is a dreamer just as many Targaryen’s and can see the future. So was it’s a meshing of both abilities? Dameon seeing the future when the trees keep record of the past is a wired one. Unless Helena connected to that power to show him what he needs to see to make the right choice.

[@LuMoRo34]

The weirwoods can see past, present and future. In the books the Ghost of High Heart could predict the future and her visions were given by the weirwoods.

[@winteriscoming3583]

Maybe someone sending these visions to them from the future(but his present). In his timeline these events already happened. Remember Hold the door.

[@g.c.4824]

The three eyed raven can see past, present and future, it can also send visions to people, why helaena appeared tho? Idk

[@melindaburns980]

Ewan Mitchell does a good job playing the role of the Treasonous Evil Ameond Hightower.

[@dandyguandy]

Fire Sara Hess and Ryan Condal.

[@ShivamMishra13]

Very very undwewhelming finale !!! Expected a lot more quality drama ! Seems that Sara and Ryan are writing their own version of Fire and Blood ! Very underwhelming !!!!!!!

[@isaacm2374]

8 episodes is too short. Focused too much on Rhaenrya and Alicent. Disappointing season

[@-trisld-]

I will give on we other unsolicited point... we will have more fun now til next season if we have open minds and activities

[@tadeuvi]

Alicent betraying the greens was pathetic. Not only that, she agrees to the death of her son. (Aemond and Daeron) would probably need to die as well because this is the purpose of this war. And yet she wants to go away with Raenyra? Compared to the books this is the equivalent of having Ned stark torturing puppies. Such a drastic character change. Alicent probably hates the blacks more than her sons in the books. Her disregard for her progeny in favor of this friendship with Raenyra has gone too far. Bad adaptation

[@humbleopulence]

I defended this entire season's pacing and unnecessary romantic asides so that this finale may redeem it with a killer battle. Would it have gutted you to add twenty minutes to the end with an act 1 of a 3 act battle? You introduced so many pieces to it anyway, why not make use of the wealth of hosts to serve up to each other by beginning the slaughter this season and capping it off with a thematic cliffhanger that represents everything you've been building all season towards?! If this was a penultimate episode, it'd be fine. But this is just unforgivable as a finale. You've not earned this kind of goodwill yet after GoT seasons 7-8, which you are so hellbent on reminding us you're connected to. Shame

[@schizosamurai8840]

The whole Lohar pronouns explanation is incredibly convoluted and unnecessary D and D level of "writing"

[@sogood2bhappy2]

Why does the dragon sigil have 4 legs? does the producer not research enough or they just pretend they know more? well theres 2 canon anyway, the book and the show

[@mr.nobody5653]

I was so hyped that there were 15 minutes left at the end just to find out they filled it with making of content. I feel very much betrayed

[@thet-rexofwallstreet9019]

This show is going DOWNHILL!

[@Little_Vampiregirl]

It already went there

[@melindaburns980]

Team Rhaenyra Team Black Team Emma Darcy

[@melindaburns980]

I hope they do more than 3 seasons .I hope they do

[@puma12345ace]

I feel like Zoro at the end of Thriller Bark if you know what I mean :D

[@frjmrtnbvdr]

I am sorry non book readers, and the "HYPED FANS" but this season is great. This season is saying "FUCK YOU DAVE AND DAN FOR DESTROYING ASOIAF UNIVERSE IN GOT!". HoTD is closer to books than GoT!

[@Al-ji4gd]

No, it isn't. It sucks.

[@melindaburns980]

Team Rhaenyra Team Black

[@melindaburns980]

I hope there are more than 3 seasons of house of the dragon.

[@-trisld-]

Lord Tyrod😂😂😂

[@maxwiidanen7281]

We got a cliff hanger of a cliff hanger. I’m reading the book and spoiling myself. This show is taking itself too serious

[@melindaburns980]

Team. RHAENYRA TEAM BLACK

[@Kaaashhhhhhh]

Ulf, truest of his name

[@melindaburns980]

I hope there be more than just three seasons of house of the dragon

[@Little_Vampiregirl]

since they wanna milk this one book to the max, there will be 4 seasons

[@drangduewel]

I like it a lot because it reminds me of the first seasons of GOT. Everyone was complaining about season 7 and 8 because they rushed it. And now everyone wants the pasting of season 7 and 8 back... I hate this tiktok generation so much...

[@teddyg3364]

I kinda disagree, this was like doing all the groundwork in season 6 for the battle of the bastards, then being like hey you gotta wait for 2 years to see the outcome

[@Little_Vampiregirl]

You don't get it. They want a well written and paced story like GoT season 1-4. Everything was perfect about it, it didn't need many battles or big events. If they hired better writers who would have had a feeling for the right pacing, more knowledge about the lore and the ability to write witty, humorous and intelligent conversations, the viewers would've been satisfied. And to be honest, this season even felt like GoT Seasons 7 and 8 to me cause of the bad writing (don't wanna compare the pacing, but everything else).