House of the Dragon episode 1 about AB0RTI0N? NO, they are WRONG!

[@ShieldWife]

When I was in labor with my first daughter, there were some complications and we had to have a Caesarian. Fortunately, it went fine and my baby survived and I had very few side effects. That scene reminded me how lucky I am to have access to modern medicine. If I lived in the Middle Ages or Westeros, I would have wanted to have the Caesarian anyway - because there is no reason that my baby would have to die too. Especially if the stability of the kingdom depended on it. I don’t see how it had anything to do with abortion. I actually really liked the king and queen. I liked what the queen said about birth being a woman’s form of battle - because it really is. Women being mothers are as important to a nation as soldiers defending the borders.

[@blueeyed5074]

Exactly. Without you giving birth....there would be nothing to defend. So in a sense giving life is a little more important.

[@methosimortal]

it does have to do with abortion in a very limited sense. Aemma wasn't allowed to make the choice you said you would have made. She wasn't asked, consulted or even informed of what was going to happen to her. Essentially her agency over her own body was taken away from her. And that is linked to abortion and the reversal of Roe vs Wade.

[@KillerChickn]

@@methosimortal Reversal of Roe v Wade simply put the power of choice back in state hands and not federal. It has nothing to do with this.

[@methosimortal]

@@KillerChickn I'm not here to debate Roe vs Wade. What I'm saying is You could link this to the issue of abortion through the argument of a woman's autonomy over her own body.

[@OppositeOfNinja]

I am not here to comment on your very relevant response. All I want to do is admire your awesome username

[@wufwuf3865]

Those people rob mothers who risk their lives for their children of heroism and instead victimise them. Is giving your life for something you believe in comsidered an act of weakness by them? What's going on in their heads?

[@Mozers05]

What goes in their mind is to destroy the concept of a family. You usually start that by destroying genders then its function.

[@theninjacalledbasilisk7770]

I know right? It is so ridiculous. 🥺

[@JohnMiller-zr8pl]

While you're not hurting others with your believes (mostly peaceful beheadings and the like), yes. A mother's love goes beyond belief, something just a mother carrying and raising her child could feel.

[@AlexSDU]

@@JohnMiller-zr8pl To whom do you are referring that remark?

[@ViridisAmbrosia]

Oh please women don't want to be perpetually pregnant. She died for a system of male power that doesn't recognize her as a person or care about her, that made her own husband her enemy. It's not heroism to sacrifice ourselves so men can carry on with a brutal system of power that dismembers the poor as so called justice. She died because they indeed can't accept female rulers, so women are forced into a hell of being constantly pregnant which will eventually mean their death and no one will even give them the choice. It's sick. They have to start their lives as a womb for men at 14. Wow. And get this, it's a womb for men to perpetuate themselves! For they don't want female babies because females aren't people! So after all that risking her life to produce babies constantly, sadly the royal womb pops out a girl. Patriarchy is like, it's worthless, AGAIN! Sire, there's the pressing matter of your heir would you please knock up your wife again? Why is the royal womb empty? Once the royal womb has perished you just get another one, so it's not a problem. Just cut her open like a melon and bleed her out once she can't continue anymore. And honestly I can't stand this. She's complaining about how hard this is getting for her in the episode, she says she can't do it anymore. It's the sort of situation in which were she free she would have chosen to stop having babies years ago because it's too hard on her (she's not young anymore). But because she isn't free and she's not considered a person her health doesn't matter, only that she pop out as many babies as possible before she's used up. She was murdered right on screen not even told the situation, not even given that dignity, as she fought and screamed no. But no it's not a victim, she chose this obviously as she fought against it and said no and screamed and looked at her husband as a man she doesn't recognize for she never believed he would betray her like that. She didn't know that she's not a person, that the cynical statement she made about being a royal womb, was simply the truth. That was all she ever was to any of them. And she dies in horror with no support, even her husband ends as her killer rather than protector, in a system designed to kill people like her. And it's funny because will he kill me is a question women have to consider to this day in choosing a partner for women are most likely to be murdered by the men in their lives. But this westeros patriarchy means that even when they have the choice they can't choose wisely because it doesn't matter if he's a good man, he's a puppet on strings for the patriarchy and the patriarchy sees women as only reproduction machines, so it can turn any good man against his wife at any time, or turn her against herself. They're all plugged in. Republicans in US have said they want to go after contraceptives as well. They literally want to force us to be pregnant and of course since we aren't people it doesn't matter that we use contraceptives also for reasons of healthcare, because our health doesn't matter. 10 year old girls are supposed to carry their rape baby even though 10 is too young for a girl to safely give birth. They are trying to kill us literally and it's happening now.

[@manchild3437]

From what I've seen in promos and stuff, Miguel Sapochnik seems to have an agenda, but Ryan Condal, the other showrunner, has George's work's best interests at heart. Ryan Condal is the one George talked to years ago to get this show on air, so hopefully he'll see it to its end and preserve the good storytelling we saw in the first episode. Fingers crossed.

[@LordKeram]

How curious that he is the guy who directed most of the season 8 episodes...

[@Aikurisu]

@@LordKeram Oh, this show is gonna be great... for channels that are going to profit from its impending terribleness. What were they thinking keeping Mig Sputnik around?

[@nightking0130]

Yeah Miguel sapochnik is like praised for directing some of the best episodes. My ass. Took me a bit to realize that hyper edited quick cut garbage action scenes are his style. What a style to be using shaky cam and give the audience a seizure.

[@LordKeram]

@@nightking0130 Also shot the long night so dark it was unwatchable for most people on their TV's...

[@fd502]

@@nightking0130 I bet he’s got a clawback in his contract and they have to keep him on. Those are surprisingly common these days.

[@octav1600]

To be fair, she screamed and said no repeatedly while the ghouls were ripping her womb apart. It was clearly a GOT moment, and it was a hard decision, however she was never in agreement with her being ripped apart. This is why it's great, as GOT was in the first seasons. Characters doing SHIT decisions then having to live with them.

[@rafraf893]

Wow...the queen had a funny way of showing she was okay with the decision the King was making...

[@ibidaxiuero]

"Are they willing to risk all of that just to send a political message?" Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Marvel Universe, DC Universe... They absolutely will.

[@darklorddysart]

“Risk it all” 😂

[@darklorddysart]

@@ChristianAuditore14 well it’s all been there from the start.

[@Marinealver]

More like it is all made to be sacrificed.

[@skywatcheradept]

In Episode 1 Westeros lore is stronk. No matter what some creators of the show say in the media (political lip service?) Episode 1 of HotD is a brilliant adaptation of Martin's Fire & Blood book. Episode 1 is worth watching no matter how good or bad the whole season would end.

[@crawlingchaos2811]

Tbh marvela and DC movies tend to be safer than the shows i think. Star Wars has been a cash grab for a long time now

[@firewolf2930]

my wife and I also had this discussion before labor. I didn't want to think about it but she knew it could happen and she wanted her desires known and followed. She was adamant about prioritizing our little girl over herself. I am so thankful for the fact that labor never got to that point. I don't know if I could have made that decision without her guidance or how someone goes on or is whole again after having to make that call. What an awful situation and whatever the decision is it is not right or wrong it just is.

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

Hmm. Then you get butchered on the table 🥰

[@benjaminodonnell258]

The part that really outraged me was whose choice it was. That the decision about what to do with her own body wasn't hers, but her husband's. In other words, it shouldn't have been the King's choice it should have been hers.

[@-droid-j7-225]

Congratulations you understood the message. Her body, her choice.

[@benjaminodonnell258]

@@-droid-j7-225 exactly!

[@TheOriginal_Unaleska]

Why is everyone ignoring the fact that she is a dead woman? Her choice is inconsequential at that point. She was also delirious and would not be able to make the choice consciously. It's like you can void a contract if you prove that you were not in the right state of mind. Her choice is void when she's going to die, but the child can live. Do you think it changes because it's the modern day? No. You can also have your partner make the choice for you if you're not in the position to do so. Remember, she IS going to die, no matter what. The King had no choice but to prioritise the child who had a chance to live over the wife who was going to die. This isn't a situation you can apply to the modern day because this is a king and queen when it actually meant something, and having a male hier was important. And if everyone knew what happened in abortion clinics, you might think twice in thinking it's okay. It's horrible. "Her" body "her" choice? What about the father? What about taking responsibility for unprotected sex? What of the child who is further along in the pregnancy to actually feel pain? (The excuse of not feeling pain is so that they want to make themselves feel better for killing a baby. Their conscious clear). What about the doctors who quit their jobs because of the horrors they've seen, the reactions they see. The physical and emotional scars left behind? Abortion is an absolutely inhuman thing. It truly is. And females need to take more responsibility over their body, not give it away like a used blow-up doll. And I am saying this as a FEMALE before you start spouting your nonsense. Nor am I religious, so you can't attack me from that angle either.

[@EarthBenderCharlie]

In regards to the comments about the King’s Wife wanting to have the baby the whole way through, you’re missing the fact that this was the 5th time the couple tried to birth an heir and that this would be her final attempt. She was done. She was tired. But she went through it all with a “stiff upper lip” because that was her duty. That was her battlefield. When she refers to her womb as a “royal womb” I think it’s clear she’s communicating some lack of agency in a sense that, whether she wants to give birth or not, she has to serve her purpose, the same way a soldier must go to war, whether he wants to fight or not. I’m not arguing the queen was completely robbed of any choice because I’m sure each attempt to procreate was 100% consensual on both parts but the element of duty does raise the question of how much choice did she REALLY have, especially given the society they live in.

[@LuxLoser]

Shad, I think you may be misinterpreting Sapochnik’s words to be more extreme than they are. I saw “Viserys did this” and “she’s forced to be a vessel” in that Viserys pressured Aemma into having more children despite numerous miscarriages and stillbirths. He pressured her rather than accept Daemon as his heir or make Rhaenyra his heir. She was clearly expressing hesitance to keep trying for a boy in the bath scene, and puts her foot down that this will be her last pregnancy. So the mistake wasn’t in the birthing scene, it was in pressuring her to risk another pregnancy. Sapochik comments about a choice over her body are less defensible. However, I think in principle that, to some extent, they should have let her have some input, at the least explaining that it’s to save the baby, or even telling her that she is going to die regardless. Just a matter of showing care for her. Just so she doesn’t have to die thinking Viserys was having her butchered. But as a separate alleviation of worry: Sapochnik only acts as a director for a couple episodes, and he isn’t a Writer for ANY episodes. It’s always the other showrunner Ryan Condal and GRRM with a third writer. And Condal was handpicked by GRRM for this show.

[@methosimortal]

also you could interpret it as Viserys made a choice to have his wife die in extreme agony in order to save a baby that ended up dying anyway. it doesn't matter whether he made that choice for the right reasons or that there weren't other options. at the end of the day, it's the choice he made and that's bound to haunt him.

[@Bayard1503]

Actually multiple writers.

[@LuxLoser]

@@methosimortal He is also cursed by hindsight. Looking back, he could have just left it to the gods, and perhaps Aemma could have lived, and at least would have died in less agony. At worst they both die, as happened with the c-section anyways. He couldn't have known that in the moment, and did the best he could, but from Viserys' perspective, he made the "wrong" choice.

[@-droid-j7-225]

"She should have given the ability to give some input"??? How the fuck isn’t it entirely her choice if she dies or not??? How is it okey that a husband can kill off his wife just because it might save the baby???

[@LuxLoser]

@@-droid-j7-225 She was dead regardless. That's what the show tells us. It wasn't "Aemma dies OR the baby dies." It was "Aemma and the baby die on their own OR we directly kill Aemma and maybe save the baby." Aemma was dying. Period. Full Stop. No saving her. She should have had the choice for HOW she dies, yes, though Shad has a strong point that it's unrealistic that Aemma and Viserys NEVER once talked about what to do if there was a complication given her 5 prior tumultuous pregnancies.

[@joesmutz9287]

In the medical field, if a patent is unable to give consent, than there is something called "implied consent" Basically, if they can't respond, then a medical professional is legally required to assume that they want to be saved

[@mybawzarerichie]

They weren't trying to save her though, and she actively said no.

[@h.plovecraft6691]

@@mybawzarerichie she was practically dead already

[@apollohateshisdayjob9606]

That is also assuming their life is the only one in the balance. There is also something called "triage" where you prioritize saving the life that has the highest probability of survival. The maester had said that the Only option they had to save the child was the procedure, otherwise it was in the hands of the gods. Because they were out of options. There was no procedure they knew that could save the mother (which means both die) but they Did know a procedure that had a chance to save the child. And it Did! The child may have died after, but it wasn't a still birth, there were just other complications they couldn't deal with. There was NO option presented that could have given the choice to prioritize saving the mother

[@tatuvarvemaa5314]

@@h.plovecraft6691 To be fair, that doesent mean much to her saying ”no” to the procedure.

[@hawkeye5955]

In such situations, there's power of attorney for medical decisions. It is a legal document that allows a person to designate a representative to make medical decisions if the person is incapacitated.

[@ToqTheWise]

This is also the problem with transposing modern politics and ethics onto a historical setting. Even if there was a 100% chance Aemma would have survived a feet-first delivery, I still would have gone with the Caesarian. This is because the security of the realm and the future of the seven kingdoms depends on the life of that child. Viserys knows about the Song of Ice and Fire, he knows what might be at stake if he can't hold the realm together. He knows that if he fails to produce an heir, the realm will fall into a succession crisis. As part of his kingly duties, and her duties as his queen, the realm must be put first.

[@DemonicAkumi]

I wonder why it needed a reupload, but as I said last time... if they want to say this is a talk about abortion DURING childbirth... that's disturbing. Now they're literally like "Even after 9 months? KILL IT!"

[@INIMICVS_MALLEVS]

what do you mean by now? former VA governor explained the left's stance awhile ago when he said deliver the child, make it comfortable, and then the mother can decide if she wants to keep it.

[@summer7603]

9 states passed bills allowing abortion and have no safeguards against abuse, technically allowing abortions up to birth. So its not unrealistic thinking anymore.

[@thebaron2277]

I don't get how this connects to abortion because the baby is being born and the Queen knows it has to. Now if the queen didn't want the baby and was trying to get rid of it and the king was trying to stop her that would be a different story

[@anonperson3972]

There are even people campaigning for after birth abortion ie infanticide. There's some fucked up, selfish people on this earth :/ ...

[@Jon.A.Scholt]

"After birth abortion" claims have been debunked so many times that people claiming they are true are a) misinformed and haven't actually looked at the laws or b) are willfully spreading misinformation for their own agenda

[@FebbieG]

Just started the video, and I have to say that there's a lot of misconception about breech birth out in the world. It is a variation of normal, and not nearly as dangerous as people tend to think now adays. Part of why it almost universally leads to cesarean in developed countries is because of lack of training about how to deliver breech.

[@Ruimas28]

The big problem is how much understanding the people in the show have about it and what training do they have to do it properly. Because...if they do not know how to do it properly, then it becomes dangerous for sure. Even because any manipulation would be dangerous due to lack of proper procedures. The risk of infections due to poor manipulation procedures would be huge. At a time when they would not have anything to use against infections on someone who would be weak from labour. If there is a lack of know how....many things can and will become dangerous.

[@agonsfitness7308]

Thank you for illustrating to me that my decision to wait until the end of s1 to decide whether or not to watch is justified.

[@Aikurisu]

I have a feeling it's going to provide GREAT content for channels looking to profit from its doom.

[@summer7603]

Yep same. Heck I'll wait till the entire thing ends after hearing those classic progressive talking points.

[@diegonatan6301]

27:45 I think you give too much credit to the feminist pro-abortion side, well, most normal people will discuss when the life begins, but the people that push for ever wider abortion rights don't care when the life begins, they care only about the wishes of the mother. ShortFatOtaku has a good video about this, and he shows that the left can't define when the human life starts because to them it is alive if the mother says that it is alive and it is not alive if the mother says it isn't. You can see that they hate when the aborted childreen receive a proper burial, because that humanises the aborted child and so to them it is a violence against the mother's wishes.

[@gazlator]

Tradition claims that it was during reign the second king of Rome, Numa Pompilius, that (in the case of Patrician births) a law was passed that every attempt should be made to extract the baby from the mother in childbirth, if the life of the baby was in jeopardy - the mother already being near death or dead already. Such a procedure necessarily resulted in the death of the mother anyway. It was this law which Julius Caesar revived as the Lex Caesarea.

[@Ibian666]

Doesn't matter. People will, and have, interpret it as men bad wahmens oppressed. And I bet that was intended.

[@bcluett1697]

It happens with anything remotely historical it seems. No thought to the order of things having to be practical in any way. It's hard for some people to imagine their "fix" for the worlds problems doesn't just work out or hasn't been actually tried before they thought of it.

[@tenraxhelin]

I always think that these Hollywood studios have a Social Media department that have directors, producers, actors, writers say crap after the fact so the get the feel good social credit even if it wasn't the original intent

[@snipertheladiesman]

When as a head writer or director of a show... you bring up a 1 sided political side but the evidence in the show shows the opposite side... it is a huge red flag and can easily understand that it could push ppl who would watch the show away as well as me, who has no interest in game of thrones in general, it pushes me further away from watching something. But hollywoke believes that promoting "THE MESSAGE" in everything is good.

[@IGotMonkeysInMyGrill]

They are trying to push the idea that abortion up until or even after birth is right, but also that men shouldn't ever be the ones to make such a decision. With this episode, they want to portray the suffering of both Viserys and his wife as stemming from 'the Patriarchy' and it's cruel social tyranny over women. They want to show that both men and women suffer because of it. That is the message they want to convey. It is 100% woke.

[@molsy1768]

No, its making a reference to history, we're doctors would often have to choose between saving a child or saving the mother.

[@mayhemivory5730]

uhm, no? nobody is making such a claim. because that would be nonsensical. Definition: abortion - the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks of pregnancy. after birth it wouldnt be an abortion; the mother isnt even pregnant at that point. and neither does anyone want or need an abortion just before giving birth. you can usually tell if the child will make it after 20 weeks. can tell if it will have defects both mentally or physically. abortions happen in the first 28 weeks. the pregnancy lasts about 40 weeks. you are just talking nonsense. abortion is a basic right, and often even a necessity. the parents should talk about it like fucking adults; and the last say needs to be with the mother for obvious reasons. theres a million reasons to have an abortion; and not one to not. that aside, the scene is either not about abortion or doing a shit job at „pushing the idea“.

[@IGotMonkeysInMyGrill]

@@molsy1768 It's being used to push a narrative that Sapochnik and others have admitted to. If they admit to doing something, it's probably what they're really doing.

[@buckduane1991]

I’ll say it again, since it seems the video was removed and re-uploaded. The same logic used to say “that’s not a human life, it’s just a clump of cells, eliminate it at any point” is the same sick in the head, delusional BS as the N.A.Z.I.s used to say “Jews aren’t people, just less evolved monkeys, eliminate them”, and it takes all kinds of mental gymnastics for someone to justify it to themselves. We know from the fact that when N.A.Z.I.s were caught even 50+ years after making their escape from Europe to avoid answering for their crimes (the “Butcher of Lyon”, for instance) not only were they unrepentant of their actions and vowed to do the same thing again if given the chance, they acted indignant and tried to play victim when brought to justice, saying “they just need to forget and move on, all I did was kill animals, not humans”, the point being: nothing anyone can do or say would ever change their minds as they justified murder to themselves… sadly, it seems to be only as likely to make a N.A.Z.I. see the truth that murder is murder as a pro-abortion fanatic see that murder is murder. The show runner needs to get the boot, end of story. By God’s design: A mother’s instinct is to preserve her unborn child at any cost… to go the other way to the point of justifying, unabashed, the taking that life to the point of it being a point of pride? even to the point of being in labor as this show runner is trying to suggest? Sick. Just absolutely SICK in the head. It’s no different than the logic behind the Holocaust, which lets be honest: has no sense or logic behind it except in the sick, sick mind that finds ways to justify it. Those who afterwards come to terms with what they’ve done, my heart goes out to them… those who see taking an unborn life as a mark of pride and push it with the zeal of Mengela, Barbi, or the other butchers who did to the Jews as is now being done to the unborn? Same sick, senseless, heartless self-justification… same false logic and disregard for the truth.

[@TrueKingRp]

My personal thoughts on abortion is allow the woman to decide and that doctor should ensure the woman wants the baby and that they know what she wants to do if someone goes wrong

[@ZChronicNebula]

The anticipation of each episode every week is the best part! The speculation! Binging has ruined the fun of waiting!

[@koleary1798]

Hmm, I think you're reaching a bit here Shad. In the book, Viserys is considered to be a good man but a weak king, a peacetime ruler that hasn't had to deal with difficult decisions or the ramifications of those decisions. As the plot of the show will essentially pivot in no small part on more decisions he would go on to make, I view this scene as more foreshadowing for his character. Face to face with the bloody ramifications of his choices.

[@Madmax45247]

Only reason the show runners did it that way was because they took it straight out of the book. Hollywood writers are only capable of making compelling and well done shows when they copy directly from someone with actual talent.

[@danieldeclue1466]

As long as they copy directly from the book the entire way through I think we good😂

[@AscendantStoic]

Of course KZbin must maintain the iron curtain of propaganda, still..my decision to boycott the show still stands and is justified more now, showrunners are blatantly racist and misandrists, not interested in whatever they make.

[@nampot1191]

Regarding the queen's headspace during the scene, the Maester even gives the line "We've given her as much milk of the poppy as we can", a drug which we can safely assume affects decision making, as enough of it causes the patient to lose consciousness and multiple Characters in GoT have flat out refused it in the past because they wanted to keep their wits about them. So whoever is subverting "the message" here is doing a really great job and I hope they stick around.

[@dagazrune6453]

And this article is the example of why I will not be watching this show until it is completed. People in the comment section replied to my statement with questions and here you are with a video that perfectly represents my point.

[@ShiningDarknes]

I think you are being overly critical of a very minor sentence. It isn't saying he made the wrong choice, it is saying he decided to save the baby and the baby ended up dead a day later anyway so he _could_ have saved his wife instead. "he can never take back" seems to suggest that this moment will be a driving force later. Like even though it isn't his fault, he will regret that "decision" later and blame himself (which is a reasonable assumption since many people blame themselves for things that they can't do anything about).

[@barstar888]

After watching 5 episodes to this stage it seems more plausible that you guys were reading waaaaayyyyy to much into the show runners words than what he intended, lol. Seems like a great, well written, well acted show to this point 🤷

[@creightonc8147]

I don’t understand how it was about abortion. They both wanted the baby, she was full term, in labor. Complications occurred, and the King was given two options, let them both die, or try and save the baby. That’s it, that’s what was given. In our world they could of easily dealt with this situation. Sorry we have to do a c section, we need plasma, numb the region, numb the mom, let’s get some imaging. Ummm yeah we are slightly more advanced than them. The allegory doesn’t work for our world and our level of medicine and technology. The claim doesn’t work cause it’s never brought up. You have two choices given let them both die, or save the baby. That’s all the king is given. FYI to all the activists. Martin hates Allegory, he hates it, doesn’t do it. ASOIF wasn’t about global warming, and this episode wasn’t about abortion, in fact it looks like it is specifically written to avoid the subject. 2 very specific options are given and neither involve abortion, nor is it mentioned or hinted at. This is grasping at straws, the left always trying to claim everything is about their belief system.

[@ferniek5000]

In my opinion, the primary wrong Viscerys did to his wife, was not consulting her on the matter. He could have explained things to her with love and gotten her input into the decision. Instead she was held down and cut open against her will. That was wrong.

[@Kriosaivak]

I wouldn’t say they’re vilifying him. Even if it’s really the only choice that makes sense, he still had to actively make a choice that undoubtedly killed his wife, and he has to live with knowing that. I mean, in the behind the scenes ( kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3OYiHmJhrqCrpI ) they specifically state that it’s a terrible position for Viserys, that his wife will die either way, but he knows it’s his duty to put forth a male heir for the good of the realm. That’s pretty much a direct quote from one of the show runners. It’s incredibly clear that he’s not supposed to be presented as some sort of villain. Sorry, but it really seems like you’re jumping at shadows dude.

[@bendoe5863]

It is also the queens duty to birth the next king.

[@rafaelbalsan4512]

Agreed

[@vitoraugusto9596]

They can be jumping at shadows, but you can really blame the guys fort that? More and more series bow to ideology and with all of that we easily get skeptical of Hollywood.

[@jones1171]

Thank you for re-uploading Shad. KZbin censorship is ridiculous. We appreciate you guys doing these reviews and discussions. It's amazing to me how crazy the woke crowd is and how far they will go to push their political agenda. It's absolutely disgusting how they can turn such a wholesome and difficult story like this one into something evil and corrupt

[@rockytopbritt]

If they can keep the pandering outside the show itself I'm down with them spewing all the BS they want. If they stay on the track this pilot established I think we will be good. I just hope they don't derail.

[@apollohateshisdayjob9606]

About informed consent in the show, you overlooked a line of dialogue that is Critical in supporting your point! The maester had said something to the extent of "We have given her as much Milk of the Poppy as we can without affecting the baby." Milk of the Poppy is clearly an opiate type pain killer. She isn't just under stress and pain, she is also drugged!! That is clearly not a state in which rational thought or informed consent could take place!

[@skyrimisforthenords8312]

Getting anything produced or anything done at any high level requires kissing rings and donating money to the right people. If they spout some nonsense to Joe bernstein behind the scenes but the show actually stays at the quality episode 1 is, we'll be good. The episode wasn't pro abortion

[@Shadowpack95]

Well the maesters have been shown wanting the Targaryens dead. So lying about other options that might save both could be in line with their actions

[@jwagner4050]

They do a poor job of it then. If the maesters wanted them all dead, they'd have been poisoned at Dragonstone before Aegon was even born. Or finished off after any number of plagues hit, like the Great Spring Sickness. IIRC, at this time, the Archmaester of Gold was a Targaryen, Vaegon. Maester conspiracy. lol. It's not a very good one if that's the case.

[@Blackdeathgaming-yv1kk]

@@jwagner4050 well, if you read fire and blood you'll find out that the faith had a very hard time endorsing the Targaryans. Besides the well known theory of the maester conspiracy the faith has risen up many times against the targaryans. They rose up against aenys, Maegor, aegon the uncrowned. It's only jahaerys that got it all to calm down again.

[@WebSurfer009]

This first episode should be used as a template to express agendas. This way writing quality would remain solid and audiences could enjoy a show even if they disagree with the agenda. Ignored win-win situations like this will continue to create disappointing shows.

[@skoffah3002]

The statements made are very contradictory to the show, this could be a marketing ploy to drum up good press. I mean he also said there would be less sex than GoT and we know that was not the case. Also as stated in a recent podcast, Miguel is the visuals guy, the head director. Whereas, Ryan Condal is the writer and "protector of the lore". Condal also said in the behind the scenes for ep.1 that Viserys had no choice, so their statements contradict one another. As long as Ryan Condal is the primary writer, I think we are safe. I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt until it is shown on screen, despite what is said in the press. Although it does unsettle me a little

[@thebaron2277]

George RR Martin is also involved in writing so him combined with this Ryan guy we should be in for a great show

[@skoffah3002]

@@thebaron2277 I agree

[@thebaron2277]

@@skoffah3002 for all of George's laziness he is still an amazing writer with emence talent

[@skoffah3002]

@@thebaron2277 and he did say recently that he doesn't like allegory, so as he is heavily involved and praises the show, I believe it can be great

[@thebaron2277]

@@skoffah3002 yea. As long as George is involved I have hope. Besides he probably wouldn't let them make it like the rings of power because he seems to care a lot about his world

[@Leo_ofRedKeep]

Wrong reading of the scene here. The maester clearly speaks of a choice to make between sacrificing the mother or "leaving it to the gods". The latter option does not imply certain death of both which is why he calls it a choice, not the only mathematical way of saving the child. So the king does make the choice of securing the child rather than risking both. He is not shown to ask about chances, which any normal man would do, but this is done so the audience can attribute the decision to him. The show pictures a king who consciously sacrifices his wife to a male heir. Addition: what the director said is correct in that the king must live with the uncertainty of what "the gods" would have made of the situation.

[@OGStinkywizzleteats]

In the scene where the queen is in the tub she said something to the affect of not being able to stand losing another baby. She viewed the unborn as children. Prolife based queen.

[@sofiag4976]

and she still did't get a choice on wheter or not she was gonna be butchered

[@miketheninja13]

I liked the first episode, but only being 1 episode in and already talking about real life politics is a major red flag. I heard that this show might only have 4-5 seasons. It's completely possible that we might end up having 1-2 great seasons (used to gather a large audience), followed by 3-5 seasons of them interjecting "their message".

[@molsy1768]

Pretty much every great TV show has a message in it about real life politics. Star trek promoted socialism, star wars opposed fascism etc

[@mybawzarerichie]

They filmed this like 2 years ago lmao, not their fault the material they covered became even more relevant.

[@jackpackage4278]

@@molsy1768 the difference is those movies were created by true artists who would put real-life politics in very subtlety where you actually had to use your brain to make the connection. These idiots today are just so on-the-nose it’s IMPOSSIBLE to not understand what they’re doing. They’re hacks.

[@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623]

@@molsy1768 No they didn't. Lies propagated by the radical fascist left. Star Trek showed us a better future where humanity had risen above our current petty issues. But it's not socialist, as people own property and enjoy actual freedom. There are none of the usual socialist trademarks like a brutal secret police and a complete disregard for individual and human rights. Star Wars is just George Lucas's take on the pulp cinema of the 30's, 40's and 50's. And other influences of classic cinema. It's Flash Gordon meets Kurosawa meets John Ford. The rebels are the typical plucky band of heroes taking on an evil Overlord and his minions. And there is a MASSIVE difference between 'here's an issue where we will allow you, the viewer, to make up your own mind by giving you multiple POV's of equal value', vs. here's THE MESSAGE, you must swallow it or you are a horrible human being! Don't like it? Why, you must be a racist/sexist/transphobe!'

[@molsy1768]

@@jackpackage4278 star trek was not subtle. It was literally set in a socialist utopia. Star wars was literally about toppling an oppressive fascist regime. Those two examples have no sublety.

[@DavidSmith-mt7tb]

My issue is the guy seemed like a pretty decent husband and father otherwise. Even if he's not gonna give the choice to the wife, I don't see why he wouldn't at least tell her what's going on. Why would anyone want their wife to die thinking you just sacrificed her when in reality she was dead anyway? If the Maester was indeed right, that the choices were both die or possibly only the mother dies, I doubt you'd find a mom who would disagree with that decision. I tend to agree that to accomplish the message they want, having him make a choice to increase the chances of survival for the baby vs a low chance of survival for both makes more sense. That actually would be a pretty compelling point and I wouldn't have an issue with that is that type of choice may well be made in this situation.

[@Ruimas28]

Yes! But you need to consider its not easy to tell someone you love they are about to die in a brutal way. You might not be brave enough to say it. You might think it will scare them and its just not going to help with anything. They are about to be brutally scared anyway....them knowing its not going to increase survival and it will not decrease pain. Its a very tricky decision if you should or should not explain things. If you lack time (like depicted), most people would rather use the time to encourage, tell their feelings, generate whatever positivity they can. Which is what you did see in the depicted scene. Its a very realistic behaviour..... Tough yes, you will have people strong enough and blunt enough to just explain what will happen.

[@Blackdeathgaming-yv1kk]

@@Ruimas28 also viserys was known as not really a strong king, so he probably didn't have the guts to say so plus telling the queen would probably at the time (when In great pain etc) freaked her out even more while being on full on drugs.

[@ianpalyo8730]

Watching this episode for the first time I would tend to agree with Shad on this. The show literally gave two options, either they both die or maybe one could be saved. As a husband, the thought of making this choice is horrifying and the idea that a show runner would come along and vilifying a husband who’s been forced to make that choice is frankly disgusting.

[@jeryko87]

He actually didn't have to make a choice. The Queen was awake and lucid. She could have made her own choice in the matter. As i see it they're not vilifying the choice he made but the fact that he took it upon himself to make it instead of offering it to her.

[@lightningpenguin8937]

@@jeryko87 In the end, I don't think neither had a real choice. There is something higher then the King, duty or an expectation. Fail that, and things fall apart. If she said no, and was doom for death. The king would have to go with it anyway, or accept failure of expectation. In the end he still failed, but as what happened. He made the choice that was expected of him.

[@davidgipe997]

@@jeryko87 can lucidity be claimed when in extreme pain and possibly physical shock? Or is this more specifically that the question wasn't asked of the queen?

[@No-Kung-Fu]

@@davidgipe997 It doesn't matter how lucid she is (and u can't possibly judge that anyway) as long as she says NO. And she clearly realized what's about to happen and said NO. So, the question wasn't asked AND she still clearly said NO. What more do you need?

[@davidgipe997]

@@No-Kung-Fu you seem to be under the impression I took a stance instead of just an inquiry given the "what more do you need" closer. That being said lucidity can effect decision making be it through pain, intoxication or other means. However it sounds like from you the answer to my questions was "Doesn't matter" and "Yes" in that the issue is she wasn't consulted. You are correct in that I cannot truly know her state of lucidity, though, by your same token neither can you. In my experience with pain it can render conversation and decision making to short curt answers. Thank you for answering my question.

[@hhhggbg3000]

He’s an absolute monarch. He has authority and control over anyones body that sets foot in Westeros.

[@Rumblestrip]

Since ya mentioned Roe v. Wade, it getting overturned actually didnt make abortion illegal in the states. What it did was, return the decision of abortion in the first trimester back to each individual state to decide if its legal or not. At the issues base, it returns freedom of choice to where it belongs, at a smaller playing field where its easier for an individual to influence on the political stage.

[@FlushedNoob]

Bruh women could decide for themselves when it was federally legal. Now some bozo in the state legislature decides. Sounds like it was taking it away from the individual and giving it to the government.

[@brookdecost940]

The only person who made that argument was kavanaugh, and all the other conservative justices said he was wrong. This argument that our inalienable rights are to be given to us by the state is antithetical to our constitution, and is the same argument that southerns tried to use to literally own other people. The right to privacy or better known as the right to make private, personal, intimate decisions regarding one’s life, or future. Is a inalienable right that is not to be legislated, or codified into law. This is the right that allows people to marry people from another race (interracial marriage) it gives you the right to use contraceptives, sodomy, gay marriage, ect. Justice alito said this was not an attack on our right to privacy (the right to make private, personal, intimate decisions) he said that he believes abortion is special, because it pertains to a possible life. Clarence Thomas said that it only logically follows to just entirely remove the right to make private, personal, intimate decisions, and they should also overturn contraceptives, marriage, ect. Kavanaugh was the only justice who brought out the argument the failed slave owners argument that the state grants people rights. I would really recommend reading our constitution, because our founders were very much against this notion, and the only reason conservatives used this argument is because it would grant them the ability to literally own other people.

[@sentinelva7570]

Wrong. It’s about whether or not the constituent members of each state have decided it is an “inalienable right” or the murder of an unborn child for convenience’s sake. For your kind to force upon us the idea, by law, that it’s not only ok but moral to emulsify a fetus inside the body of an inconvenienced woman is against OUR “right to choose” - and most of the founders would agree with this, being Christian to varying degrees. Don’t like it, go to a state more friendly to your thoughts.

[@Rumblestrip]

These kinds of replies are exactly why i didnt inject my opinion on the subject... Lol y'all can debate the morality of it on your own. Thats the point of this decision being overturned. Killing an unborn child in whatever stage of development is between you and your maker to decide the outcome of your soul. Mines pretty dark as it is, ask my wife. Y'all are proving why i view most of humanity as ill behaved livestock instead of people.

[@judjementine]

the new He-man Series: He-man is horrible for dying and leaving the female characters to suffer with the decision and their grief. House of the Dragon: king is horrible for trying to save their child that results in his wife's death and living to suffer with that decision and his grief. so they're saying there is absolutely nothing a man can do without being a horrible person and in the wrong. what a wonderful message.

[@josegoatkidd7704]

I think Sapochnic's words are just a statement about character developement (like saying that the decission will haunt Viserys from a personal level on the long term) onto which people from all sides of the political spectrum have projected their political views. Also, all sources I have found about this topic are disputable at best. Don't fall into artificially generated conflict and drama.

[@jmartin4396]

As far as the "Choice" to abort for the Queen. Imagine what the backlash would have been in the "let" her make that choice with a child that had come to full term. Just as an aside, "legend" has it that Cleopatra had a successful C-section over 2000 years ago.

[@robo5013]

The C-section part is what I had a problem with. C-sections have been successfully performed for thousands of years, even by peoples w/ stone age technologies. The Maesters are supposed to be so much smarter than anything we had during the actual middle ages (I mean they've taught crows how to be carrier pigeons) they should have been able to pull off a C-section w/out any problem. Oh and I forgot, it's literally why its called a Cesarean section because Julius Caesar made it a law that if the mother died in labor that the doctors had to perform the procedure to see if the baby could be saved. Also the rumor is that Caesar himself was born that way and where he got his name, from the Latin word “caedare,” which means to cut.

[@Bayard1503]

@@robo5013 Actually, the Children of the Forest established the raven communication system, humans just copied it. Anyway... C-Sections have been done for a long time but on dead or on death bad mothers. The chances of surviving were slim all the way up to 19th century. This is the Middle Ages.

[@robo5013]

@@Bayard1503 A christian missionary (who was also a doctor) in the amazon witnessed a successful c-section performed by a 'witch doctor' (the missionary's words) who used banana wine as both an anesthetic and antiseptic and performed the procedure using an obsidian scalpel. It was his second such operation. Both were successful, in that the mother and child survived. This is an example of a person using stone age tech to perform the operation, and the knowledge would have been handed down from generation to generation. Just because western medicine didn't record it before recently doesn't mean that the procedure wasn't successfully used before then. The reason for most postpartum deaths up until recently was the abysmal state of hospital cleanliness, most mothers dying from sepsis after a c-section. New mother mortality rates were high for the same reason. For some reason western europe forgot the lessons of the past concerning sterility in medicine (dark ages, perhaps?). Ignac Semmelweis discovered in the 1860s that if you washed your hands before delivering a baby the chances of a mother surviving went WAY up. If Caesar was born from a c-section, it was done while his mother was alive and she died while he was campaigning in gaul.

[@mikito-kira4269]

Had a random shower thought while watching this, and remembered Fullmetal alchemist brotherhood and a scene that is in that show regarding being in labor and got me thinking you guys should review that show sometime

[@HALberdier17]

They should watch it. There are some things they might not like and probably wouldn't make sense with the time period of the series.

[@Velnar.]

Love that show! The characters and worldbuilding in it are super interesting. (still get a bit trigered that they call the king "führer" though, i get that it is a japanees show, but......they should have gone with a different translation in Europe, aside from that it is an awesome show😂)

[@renzmanzano4010]

@@Velnar. that anime is woke garbage

[@mikito-kira4269]

@@renzmanzano4010 Genuinely curious how FMA is "woke garbage" ?

[@LukSter18998]

@@mikito-kira4269 that’s the last thing i’d hear about it

[@Ben-fk9ey]

From the first comment from Sapochnick I'd interpret that as the king having to live with his decision to push for a male heir and the consequences of that and also maybe to give the go ahead for the caesarean birth which definitely killed his wife whilst he could have left it "up to the gods" as the Maester says. You can see how much it pains him to make that choice especially when his wife realises what's happening and begins screaming in fear. So I think you've really overblown what he said let alone connect it to abortion?

[@danieln6700]

People are reading way to much into it. He finally got the son he wanted at the cost of his son and wife dying. It's not that bad of a scene. The mother was exhausted and couldn't deliver. They had to do something

[@skeletonnoise6178]

Your opinion and his opinion. What you gonna do about it

[@Blanktarn]

The connection to abortion is brought up when we talk about the “choice” that was made for the mother. It is implied by the directors that Viserys I cared more about his potential son than he did about his wife’s life and instead of asking her whether or not she wanted to try to fight it through and potentially (higher) losing the child, he goes ahead and makes the choice for her. The connection is that now, people say a man must never have a choice in the matter of pregnancy and abortion.

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

@@danieln6700 you mean butchering her? I knew most of his audiences were incels but damn dude.

[@TheRichPoorMan]

I'm sorry but the thesis of your argument that "the framing of the show is that the queen wanted the child" isn't accurate to what i saw. There were two early scenes with the queen, one with her daughter and one with the king that show she's going through with this pregnancy because "it's her duty to bear a son", it's what is expected of her and if given the choice she wouldn't be bearing another child. In the later scene she tells the king, "This is the last time... ...i've mourned all the dead children i can". She's clearly tired of going through this and doesn't have much hope for the success of this one. Nearly all comments she makes towards pregnancy paint it in a negative light, "born with a crown... ...birth is unpleasant enough as it is". I think that's where the argument for bodily autonomy comes from, she's going through what duty demands of her as opposed to what would be her choice.

[@J1283-s1k]

What are they talking about? It was about the individual fights, the struggles, the sacrifices men and women have to make in feudal society. The whole point of the pregnancy scene was to attempt to save the child rather than both him and his mother dying together. There was nothing about abortion?

[@MKempICI]

Under the previous CEO, Richard Plepler, HBO relied on controversy to provide free marketing and attract Emmy nominations. I suspect that Sapochnik absorbed his marketing strategy from Plepler and D&D. The problem is that 2022 is not 2014. This kind of political garbage would have caused an eye-roll in 2014. These days, it causes people to tune out and wall themselves off. If the cast, crew and showrunners can keep their mouths closed about politics, they might just be able to make this work.

[@diegonatan6301]

There is also the possibility that they are paying lip service to that side of the political spectrum. Also, they will say what the department of marketing orders them to say.

[@firewolf2930]

I agree they just spout off hot topic phrases in interviews whether they can justify it or not because they think it will help sell the show... it doesn't

[@moukatelmomo6985]

I do not interprete what Sapochnik (he's also the director of the episode) said about the king like you. It's more like with this situation, for him it's a lose lose outcome whatever his choice, and he has to live with it, which is true Whereas for what the actress said, it's true. The queen is a vessel for childbirth because she is the queen. She has to. The same way the king has to have a queen to produce an heir to the throne

[@jimspetdragons3737]

I only had problems w/ not explaining the situation to the wife adequately and how they butchered her alive with no regard to her as a person, not like some dead animal - at least under the terms discussed in the video. Would have preferred more consent from the wife as most everyone might agree. Also, on a side note: they did not show the baby dying. Maybe he was murdered by his handlers as a possibility for a later reveal. Long shot, but viable. As far as the show goes, I was actually disappointed a bit. Only a few characters were developed beyond a brief introduction. Compare that to GOT's 1st episode, you get a good sense on who many of the characters are, from Jon's wish to join the knight's watch, his background as a bastard, etc. Arya's want to be a warrior, Sansa's desire to marry Jeoffrey, Ned, Catherine, Rob, Jaimie, Cersei, Tyrion, and on and on all in the 1st episode. Here you get to know details like that in 2 or so characters. Some are just hard to figure (a bored princess neglected by daddy. Very little about her as a person. They did a good job on Matt smith and the king. Most everyone else there was only a small taste. (Some don't need too much this early as they aren't important to the episode, granted). (Also, I do understand that developing characters things slowly is a virtue sometimes). Many (most) will disagree w/ me. Don't get me wrong, I like the show, just expected more in the 1st 70 minutes (like GOT).

[@deimantev8641]

The queen declared that it would be her last time of trying to carry out a full pregnancy, because obviously of previous misfortunes in her other pregnancies. Which means she was trying every time because she was obligated as a ''royal womb'' and she even felt the need to apologize for not being able to provide a male heir. Let's say she survived, but the baby was female or stillborn, and as she declared, she wouldn't try to get pregnant anymore, i believe even in medieval times females had their own natural methods/remedies to avoid unwanted pregnancies. That would count as contraception or even as abortion for some.

[@deimantev8641]

I think that scene really was for to show people how cruel it can be when you take away someone's right to their body. It wasn't meant to put the blame on a man in this case Viserys, i personally didn't even have the thought to blame him, just felt sorry for his position. I rather wanted to blame societal norms and traditional agenda towards women.

[@jayclearmen411]

I hear you and i understand. it’s a tremendous decision an one i don’t envy giving to anyone frfr.. rock hard place..Quite frankly if i was in his place i’d get a consort and have her be a surrogate mother after the second failed attempt.. i couldn’t bare having my wife go through 5 fail attempts 1 on its own is bad enough… I just get a surrogate one with her features..or a healthy young a 20 something with wide thick child bearing hips A women that bares a close enough resemblance to her or she could pass for a relation and pay her weight in gold..for a child give her every assurance that her kid would have the best care school money can by.

[@jamesdavey9690]

The only woke show I've ever seen that was truly good was The Dragon Prince on Netflix, and that's only because the relationships were so wholesome, and the villains so compelling, they outweighed the modern talking points. I doubt House of the Dragon will be managing to pull that off.

[@mccrie407]

I think it's clever marketing. Prioritizing writing over agenda while also appealing to the Hollywood elite. (Which they need to do for awards)

[@rtfirefly8092]

There's also another factor to think about. The king just cannot think about his or the Queen's lives it's also about the entire kingdom. They need a male air to have stability in the kingdom or else turmoil will be ensured, which means the people's lives of the kingdom are at stake. we're talking about hundreds or thousands of lives are at stake if this heir is not produced. So the lives of the Queen or the baby is not the only thing at risk here it is the entire population of the kingdom that is at risk. The king made a very hard gamble for the sake of the greater good, unfortunately he lost.

[@rpgkingx3629]

This is why I abide by Death of the Author. The showrunners can say anything about their own work, and in the end of the day, whether you buy into it or not, it doesn’t matter what they say, but what the media they makes say

[@stgibbs86]

I LOVE finding out that shad is actually a good hearted conservative, and not buying into the mainstream establishment cult. THANK YOU SHAD for having COMMON SENSE!

[@Gunleaver]

The problem these people have is that the king chose to sacrifice the queen's life. In the after-interview, they suggested there was no way to save the queen, but in the script, it's phrased as giving the man to make the choice of whether or not to kill the mother to save the child. The queen was clearly not on board. She was objecting and protesting the procedure. and beforehand, when she was in the bath, she explicitly said she did not want to try another pregnancy and was not thrilled about this one. I don't know that she IS supporting of having a kid. The way she talks, she does not see that she had a choice to get pregnant, that she did not want to get pregnant after so many disastrous efforts. She compares it to the battlefield, so saying she has a choice in this is like saying soldiers have a choice about going to war. I also don't see this as deviating from Martin's work. Although in the books, Aemma died giving birth to a child who died a day later, and there is nothing about Viserys making that choice, there is a similar scene elsewhere in "Fire and Blood" in which this story is written too, where a nobleman's wife is having difficulty giving birth and her husband is told to choose whether to save his wife or the baby, and he says "save my son" although it turns out to be a daughter. She is healthy and grows up to marry the king's eldest son, their daughter is on the show as Rhaenys, The Queen That Never Was, but her half-sister, a Targaryen and a daughter of the mother who is killed in the birth, flies in on her dragon to scream at the husband, blaming him for everything, including his bad choice, and for getting her pregnant in the first place, and the narrative supports her position, and treats the husband as selfish and heartless in making that choice. So I rather think that, yes, if they are trying to be faithful to George RR Martin's vision, they ARE depicting the king as the villain. First of all, the king is choosing to impose a pregnancy on his wife in hopes for a son, since he clearly is not satisfied with his daughter who is a more diligent student than she appears. This is in spite of five failed efforts, so she has to be getting on in years as well. The general thrust is that the king cares more about having a son than whether or not it is prudent for his wife to attempt to bear one. While lip service is paid to the point that a female claimant had already been rejected, once it is clear that no son is forthcoming, and his brother has pissed him off (and lacks sons of his own, or any prospect of getting any in his unhappy marriage), the King is just fine ramming his daughter down the throats of the lords. So the clear implication is, he had other options than putting his wife through a difficult and dangerous pregnancy, much less choosing to prioritize the life of the baby over hers, especially given her objections.

[@MarkusBartus]

Good work guys but small correction. Miguel Sapochnik is not a showrunner. He is director for this episode.

[@blackshade1840]

he is both. he is co-showrunner with Ryan Condal. Condal has additional writing duties and he has additional directing duties

[@MarkusBartus]

@@blackshade1840 I have never assumed that. On the IMBD it says Ryan Condal and George Martin. It make sense why they picked him for the first episode since he directed one of the best episodes in GoT.

[@blackshade1840]

@@MarkusBartus well imdb is wrong then. He is co-showrunner. its in all the promo material. just look at the latest behind the scenes episode. under his name is writen: showrunner, executive producer and director. under Condals name is written: showrunner, executive producer and writer. Martin is only involved in an advisory role. he is probably also an executive producer. he is not a showrunner nor will he write any episodes this season. And i know Sapochnik directed all the big battle episodes in GOT. He is directing three episodes this season for HOTD

[@surlyunicorn9461]

Not all wokeness is immediately apparent. Some shows lure you in for a couple of episodes or even an entire season before kicking you square in the acorns.

[@JeffSense]

I'm looking at you 'For all Mankind'

[@MarcusBritish]

@@poppag8281 Because it's a bunch of fanatical ideals pushed by people so removed from reality they need to crowd-control the population in order to subject them to their misguided beliefs. Also, the ways they subject people to wokism is largely manipulative and disingenuous, and often destructive. They're trying to change the world by destroying cultures, victimising people who contribute to society yet disagree with them and alienating communities who just want to live normal lives without being subject to or have their entertainment subjected to political agendas. But wokeness has now crept into every form or entertainment, from kids' books and TV to all adult media, music, etc so that we can no longer enjoy things casually... we're having things forced down out throats without having invited those people to do so who are rewriting history, bastardising works such as Tolkien to produce adaptations that are an afront to the source material, and making it impossible for everyone not to take sides, which is ultimately divisive and destructive. Wokeness is literally a generational thing that has only come about recently and been promoted by activists and corporate heads because it easily lures people in who are unaware that they are being exploited and subjected to one-sided "political correctness" that is so absolute it has taken the form of authoritarianism, which is contrary to their goals - it's like claiming you stand for democracy in one hand while silencing the opposition with the other - wanting to win a race by being the only person in it. Unfortunately, once the likes of Hollywood and their overpaid celebrities get their claws into anything they can promote it's very difficult for society to fight it without being subject to abuse, false accusations, strawman fallacies and harassment instigated by higher-ups using "free speech" as their tool but leaving it to be fought by their less intelligent followers who more likely to engage in toxic social media engagements that drive anti-woke people off of social platforms simply because it threatens they wellbeing or becomes harmful to their mental health. Most people are poor at reading between the lines, spotting red flags or analysing things in-depth to see that they're not being tricked into a way of thinking before they're already convinced of something and by then it's too late, they've fallen into the trap and it takes a lot to reeducate them. Wokeness is an attack on individuality and freedom with a cult following taken up by "do gooders" who are often very toxic, narcissistic or using the woke platform to prop themselves us because they're nothing without a cause, i.e. virtue signalling for the personal popularity gains - many social media celebs have launched themselves off the back of politicized campaigns they don't truly endorse only to fall back into obscurity once their followers find a louder voice paying lip service to their self-congratulatory delusional beliefs. Herds move where the grass is greener and that's why Hollywood is so passive-aggressive towards vocal anti-wokists, because they're afraid of losing their wokist feeding grounds which, in the current climate, keep them afloat.

[@Enigma75614]

@@poppag8281Because it prioritizes the political message over the story.

[@NinjaWolf-ue3si]

man youtube hit me with 9 ads at once. hope you getting your cut shad

[@fenixosilvoron1252]

Just keep in mind, the pro choice feminist type people are making comparisons between the real world and fantasy.

[@Rick-zv3xs]

When the season’s done and I know if it’s good or not, I might watch it. Not going to place my feet on the rug until I know it’s not going to be pulled.

[@Shamrock797]

The guy who made the comments, Miguel Sapochnik, was also the director of the first episode. Perhaps I’m giving the benefit of the doubt, because I like the episode, but I think there are multiple nuanced interpretations of the scene, and he was giving his view. But clearly he made something that transcended his personal viewpoint, which is a good thing. I think. But we’ll see as the show goes on!

[@dimitris470]

If this was about choice, it would completely nullify the Queen's speech about a battlefield. The battlefield is not about choice. It's about sacrifice. Even if you despair. Like the soldiers dying outside.

[@slimbombur7922]

The choice here was either lose them both or lose the mother and save the baby. Unfortunately both choices was "they both dies" so how was this even a choice? And why should the king feel any remorse about the choice he was forced to do. I also don't understand why the king just don't get himself a new wife, which would have been the common thing to do in medival times. He is not to old to impregnate women since he recently did so. No need to panic and name other heirs since he is not dying himself or anything.

[@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623]

We live in a strange age where you pretty much can only safely commit to a series emotionally until it is finished. To avoid the woke bait and switch. And even then the actors, writers and producers can still retroactively ruin it for you by becoming like Mark Hamill on Twittwat. Gone are the days where a series could just decline in quality, but the good stuff remained watchable.

[@Watch_over_us]

Twatter🙂

[@renzmanzano4010]

Wa wa wa

[@lukehearn2712]

Shad, I bring news of new misery for Tolkien's work. Wizards of the Coast has race-swapped Aragorn for their new Magic the gathering middle-earth trading card line. Thought you ought to know if you didn't already.

[@knightofarnor2552]

Bruh, you would have to race swap every Gondorian and Ranger of the North too for that to be logically consistent. Not to mention make Theoden, Eowyn, and Eomer mixed, because Theoden's mother was Gondorian.

[@surlyunicorn9461]

Don’t worry, it’s just Kirk Lazarus. “I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude.”

[@asspennies]

I really fear it'll be a bait and switch. They come out with a nuanced and politically ambiguous episode to get people talking and signing up for a month of HBO, then pull the rug out. I haven't read the books but I have a feeling it will end up with Rhaenyra refusing to have children and it will be framed as "this is the most empowering thing a woman can do"

[@killerkoffee4619]

Rhaenyra has 5 kids lol

[@jayclearmen411]

@@killerkoffee4619 no she doesn’t.

[@CitroChannel]

@@jayclearmen411 In the book, later on in the story, she does. That is presumably what they're talking about.

[@ChristinaStarlight]

Martin is a feminist. The current horrible decision of the Supreme court might have inspired him a bit. So what? I think it is great they try to bring more awareness to this topic. Abortion rights are super important to have less women die during delivery. Without this right more women are forced to sacrifice themselves, even when they dont want to (and that fade is chosen mostly by men).

[@stephenrice2063]

1. My older brother was a breech birth, and both he and Mom survived unscathed. This was in the very early 1960s. 2. At conception, a life (as marked by metabolic processes and the development of physiological systems) begins, and that life is genetically a. distinct from the mother (unless she's carrying her own clone) and b. human. So we're talking about a human life, here. This is why most modern pro-abortion arguments are philosophical and hinge on personhood or bodily autonomy. But when in doubt err on the side of caution, which here means assuming personhood.

[@othannen.]

Might be late for my comment to get any visibility, but I wanted to point out another scene that is related and not discussed, when the queen tells the king that this was going to be her last attempt at having another child because of all the hardship she had with her previous ones that didn't end well. Assuming they didn't have proper ways to prevent pregnancy in a medieval setting (other than abstinence) it could imply she would choose an early abortion in the future if it was an option.

[@othannen.]

@Uhavenoright toask I don't really understand how your message is related to what I wrote, I was just pointing out a relevant scene that wasn't discussed in this video.

[@Namenlos-fo1ek]

There is something really interesting with the Maestar. There are the Maestar Conspiracy theories which are based on a Maestar (I think it was in the fifth book of the series) who said the Maestars are responsible for the Downfall of the dragons. It is theorized that the Maestar were responsible for some deaths. Maybe the Maestars (or Otto Hightower) wanted the Queen dead. If you are interested just watch some Videos in You Tube.

[@Ben-fk9ey]

I think Preston Jacobs did a video on this?

[@OcarinaSapphr-]

If Otto’s somewhat analogous to Baelish, I could well expect he has his own spies among the royal household- hearing the Queen has no desire for another pregnancy, whether successful or not- to Otto, she’s now essentially in the way. It’s pretty obvious he’s been planning for his daughter’s rise since the reign of the Old King in the books...

[@Cwronaga216]

I completely agree with you shad and I completely understand why the king made the choice he did based upon the situation he was in and the information he was given. He was told that he could only save one or risk losing them both and even though saving the wife was The Logical choice because he did have living heirs and there was no guaranteed the child would survive either way he had the societal pressures of everyone around him telling him he needed a male Heir and it's what he had always wanted. And he made this Choice knowing that his wife would not wish to pursue another child. So based on the mindset forced upon him by his kingdom and the information provided from both the physician and his own wife earlier he believed that trying to save the child was the correct course of action even though it was the incorrect one from a logical standpoint and he actually realizes this fact later in the episode when talking to his daughter before naming her as next in line. Because he says he had spent all of this time hoping for a son when he had a worthy air the entire time and he was blinded by his goals and ambitions. So he did make a mistake that he has to live with but as a viewer it's completely understandable as to why he made the decision even if it wasn't the best. Now I personally would have saved the wife because in that situation there was no guarantee the child would survive in any case but at least I would still have my other child and I would still have a living wife unless of course it is what the wife wanted

[@RidleyCinema]

Yeah I was hearing about this after I watched the episode and was watching some reviews. People were saying the King deciding to go through with the C section was an allegory for taking away women's choice. I never got that feeling also there wasnt much of a choice it was laid out that she was gonna die regardless and there may have been an opportunity to save the baby, there is some stuff about female heirs and women holding power or what power they have with their wombs. It's only one episode in and if the creators are trying to push some woke shanagans (I wouldn't be shocked if they were) episode 1 definitely doesnt come across that way. Game of thrones has always had a natural power dynamic and balance of men and women, so seeing women be political and plotting is definitely nothing new for anyone that knows the world. As long as they dont bash men to prop up the women (they might who knows, wouldnt be out of the realm of possibility) then this series looks to have a lot of promise and I'm definitely interested in episode 2 and where all the characters are going. At the moment House of the Dragon seems to be a breath of fresh air in this toxic woke pandering nonsense in just hope it stays that way.

[@fio_lume]

@@ashwhite8610 ah yes, the choice of "you die or you both die". If she really was to die regardless, then it maybe was better not to tell her, as cruel as it sounds. People in the face of death who are still in control of their body, tend to do voilent and irrational things and struggle with all their might to prevent their end from happening. There was no choice, there was only the option of telling her (or not) that she will die, which could've caused all kinds of complications. Very rarely do people let their inevitable death just happen and make true peace with their own mortality, especially when they otherwise seem healthy.

[@metrostatistics9807]

I would just like to point out that there are some people who genuinely believe that you should be able to abort a child AFTER birth..... I'm not joking it's really messed up

[@mayaamis]

the childbirth scene was so hard to watch but this scene was about terrible choice a man had to make, a terrible choice a king had to make, a choice a woman didn't get to make and a reality of what many women went through in the past before modern medicine, it also showed a possible beginning of downfall of a family.... it told so much about these characters and world and it was a great impactful scene. it was not about any ideologies in my opinion, it was just great writing about this brutal world.

[@Smallpotato1965]

Hmm... the ends do not justify the means, and, by your own admission (in rings of power reviews), if you do something 'for the greater good', alarmbells should be ringing. HOWEVER, I've got a Master's in History of Ancient Medicine, and get VERY annoyed when people judge people of the past based on knowledge and opinions of today, let alone use ancient medicinal practices as a stick to beat political points with. And frankly, if there are but two options, one where both mother and child die an agonising death, and the second where the mother dies but the child has a change to live, of course people (fathers and mothers) would choose option two. Because option two is the lesser of two evils. It's the runaway train option, where thing you can choose it wether you switch the lever which controls which track the train will run wild on, and on one track there is only one person that will be run over, but it's someone you know and love, and the other track has five people on it, but you don't know them. Choose. Whatever you will choose, you will feel as if you personally have killed them, which is of course untrue; you cannot control a runaway train, as the King could not control the birth of his baby. He can only choose wether nobody lives or wether one has a change of living. However! While I did not watch the show, it does not sound as if they told the queen what they were going to do, and it would've been nice if - if she was lucid - she had been told that the Maester said that her child could not be delivered and would die in her womb and then she would die a few days later, but that there was a possibility to save the child but it would mean she has a great chance of dying of the procedure. Not so much because of 'a woman's right to choose' but simply to take the fear away, because to be helpless and in pain and then to have some maniac starting to carve in you while you don't know why they are doing this...?! Or give the woman information as you operate. Tell her that her baby is stuck and they are going to get it out. In the queen's no doubt muddled-by-exhaustion-and-pain head this would penetrate as a good idea, because she too wants this child out, out, out! And she too wants the child to live.

[@MsMartinMuses]

So they’re saying if they had brutally slaughtered the baby it would have all been fine? I’m not sure this is the case for abortion they think it is

[@ladybird452]

This is literally what is done in modern medicine. We always choose the mother unless she says otherwise. We try our best to save the baby, but the man doesn't get to decide to murder the woman.

[@rndhoody2634]

@@ladybird452 Murder. yes. Because that's what this catch 22 was.

[@ladybird452]

@@rndhoody2634 yup that's exactly what it was. He murdered his wife so he could have an heir. And no, mediaeval times is not an excuse. Characters in ASOIF do things all that time that were allowed then but are heinous now, and we always judge them by our standards. Viserys is no exception

[@rndhoody2634]

@@ladybird452 Did you not hear the part when she would die even if he did nothing? Would her "murder" have been better if he "murdered" his child too?

[@ladybird452]

@@rndhoody2634 did you hear the part where the maester says choose one or they both die? Not save the baby or they both die. Choose one. They could have attempted a vaginal breech extraction that would put the baby's life at risk but save the mother. He chose the baby. He murdered his wife and what's worse he allowed her to be cut open like an animal without a word of warning. Sound like you need to rewatch the scene

[@sardonically-inclined7645]

NONE of the marketing or articles or interviews around the show did/do it any favours. Some lines took me out of it, but overall, the episode wasn't as bad as I was expecting. Though, we've got time.

[@Arthur-zb9eh]

If the world was full of wrong and right choices then that’d be no choice at all

[@danteaghoulfromspace2996]

in the birth/tourney sequence, i felt like the fight also somehow represented the birth. in the end after a tough opponent (knight cole/birthproblem) there seems to be victory (the baby/Daemon) but it only seems to be as after there is the bitter taste of defeat (Daemon losing/the baby also dying) i really quite liked that

[@mikewaterfield3599]

Moon tea kids, in universe morning after pill. You can’t blame people for being gun shy. From the diversity insert, to the rumblings of feminism I see miles of potential for this series to go balls deep in “the message”. Episode one warranted giving episode two a Chance for me. That said I can’t help but feel like “it’s a trap!”

[@LukSter18998]

moon tea is that like a moon cake

[@mikewaterfield3599]

@@LukSter18998 no, it is like morning after pill. I comes up several times in the books. The crag woman who Rob Stark marries, is given it by her parents to keep her from having a Stark heir. Asha (Yara in the TV series) takes it because she likes getting laid and does not wanna get knocked up.

[@jasoncluchey2067]

Could it be possible, they are making the best show possible and to certain outlets with agendas they just feed them what they want to hear to keep them at bay

[@RizztrainingOrder]

Perhaps, it’s just as likely as they are attempting to ineptly play to the woke crowd.

[@apollohateshisdayjob9606]

Possible, and from one creator probably, but from another, highly unlikely.

[@anonperson3972]

The fact that he is saying "its about abortion" when it's complications during childbirth is really disturbing...

[@koleary1798]

To add to my previous point and take a less charitable view of what comments were said, in this instance even if they are trying to make a political point (you all know which one I'm talking about, I don't want to ef up the comments section so I won't outright say it) personally I'm fine with them doing so. There's a massive difference between yaas Queen girl boss stuff and highlighting the bodily autonomy (or lackthereof) that women must contend with.

[@MrEsphoenix]

Their argument would do abortion a disservice if anything. Most people aren't talking about aborting babies as they're being born, and I think people on both sides would agree that's insane. I can;t imagine that was the intention or they'd have come up with a more realistic argument for abortion in the lore. I think that's them retroactively trying to tack on a message. Basically these days you need to go into things blind and avoid any media involving the actors or directors, as they don't talk about the movie/series, but instead try to sell messages using the media which just adds a sour note to the whole thing. Hopefully this is a case of the series being decent and story coming first and they're just trying to add messages onto it post humorously.

[@robo5013]

I've been saying something similar all along. The scripts were written, the shows filmed, then FX added and edited long before the supreme court overturned Roe v. Wade. Nothing in the show could have possibly been about abortion, they're just trying to make it so now to generate interest in an audience that probably wouldn't be interested in a fantasy show otherwise.

[@MrEsphoenix]

@@robo5013 Doubt they'll be interested in it anyway. We've seen time and time again that movies and series which use a political message as the main hook flop, because the people who care about that message don't stick around for long, and they alienate people who would have been interested in it with shitty story writing.

[@luizgustavosmolarek4440]

Congratulations, you are discussing if the actions of a fictional character are justified, and in doing so, generating engagement, which is what the showrunners wanted when they included this scene. Sad to see Shad turning out to be one of these annoying guys complaining about "politics" and "agendas". Read the fucking books and you will find out GRRM is REALLY into discussing all these subjects you claim to be "woke".

[@MistyMountainPath]

I got it: they're counting on people to not watch the show.

[@Aikurisu]

It's stuff like this that makes me not want to see this show till it's released in full. But that's the story for practically everything released nowadays. Nevermind the horrible last season of GoT. We're in an era where something may have promise, only to become political. Disney content is practically rife with it across the board, while we have something like Westworld start off strong then turn into an bloody mess. Or say, my personal pet peeve and greatest regret watching: Netflix's Volton: Ultimate Defender. Seven SPECTACULAR seasons, ruined by its final 8th.