How a lighter improves my groups

[@onedudesopinion6197]

I played with this for a couple of days and it really made a big difference in my accuracy. My shot placement was inconsistent and often up and to the left by about 5 inches away from where I was aiming. The lighter trick tightened that up. I’m a novice archer at best and have never had formal lessons but this improved my shot for sure. Thank you for the content brother!

[@pp2021]

One of the best tutorial lessons this year. Sounds simple, just need to try it and see the massive difference. Thanks John.

[@hogwildbowhunter]

I have been around Archery a long time this tip is new to me and I have to give it a try! This is very much a unique twist on how I teach the bow hand in the shot process.

[@Terpedup925]

This really does work. I’ve tried it and my groups were way better. Don’t hate on John just try it before you judge it.

[@dazofthemoo1531]

Im new here and so far all I've seen is gratitude for this fella. No hate. Seems like a great site, with a great bunch following. ❤

[@Terpedup925]

@@dazofthemoo1531 yea there’s a lot of haters out there that for some reason they don’t like John. I don’t know why. He seems super genuine and generous

[@dazofthemoo1531]

@@Terpedup925 Hmm, Armchair experts with nothing better to do, i suppose. Well so far, I like what I see. It's just gone 9am here in Sydney, and I'm gunna try out his trick today. Enjoy your day mate. Keep 'em tight!

[@dalehill6127]

​@@dazofthemoo1531 So you tried John's technique, how did it go?

[@mash4fun]

Saw this video a month ago and started to do this and over the last month my groups have improved dramatically.... thanks John

[@adublbeatz8656]

Man!!! Thank you. For some reason, I torque more at distances pass 20 yards. I got out in the yard for this evening shots and tried this technique. It worked for me. Of course, I'll keep doing it, to train the brain and grip, but yeah, I could see the difference. Glad I saw this before I started waling my bow back....

[@ytk4048]

I didn’t use the lighter but envisioned as if it was there my groups went from 3 inches to piling my arrows on top of each other insane honestly thank you another thing that helped me was keeping my pin on target even after releasing I use to move my bow to the right to see where my arrow was landing as soon as I hit the trigger which was causing my arrows to go right again thanks!

[@TadFlaugh]

So simple, yet very complex. Well done.

[@GCSimons]

That’s a great tool to get the grip right, thank you. However, I took the picture as you suggested and realized immediately I didn’t nearly have the Dudley guns featured in this vid 😢

[@joshualott8439]

The lighter in my right hand brought my arrow from a fifty cent piece to a quarter this helped a lot. Thank you

[@MikeJones-vb1me]

I recently learned that I torque my bow a lot. This video came at the perfect time!

[@toothlessarcher]

Thanks for the tip. Grip is something I have struggled quite a bit with especially as i've up'd the poundage over the last 2 years (55 when starting up to 70 now). That consistency is hard.

[@ChrisBusinsky]

I really never knew what was right and wrong until I saw this either. 🤯

[@Shurmash]

I anchor underneath my chin. Aligns everything from the broadhead tip to the release. Dramatically improves accuracy and virtually eliminates left-right axis play. Release is flat under my chin ready to be fired either index or thumb. No turning the the release upside down torquing the D loop or misaligning the bow string.

[@JerrBearTactical]

Archery tip of the decade ... that's genius, Brother 🏹👊🇺🇸

[@JohnEasterling-e7b]

Biggest problem most people have is punching the release. A lot of them look like a cobra striking. Leading to or from target panic.

[@willc3384]

Great advice John!! I will give it a try. You have a knack for clearly and simply explaining things. I have a question. Is there anything wrong with letting a finger or two rest on the front of the riser for stability when you are in a cross wind and the bow is getting buffeted around?

[@Terpedup925]

@@willc3384 I don’t think there is anything wrong with it. I do that but I make sure I don’t put any pressure on the grip with the 2 fingers.

[@ВладимирПрименко-о5б]

There are 2 ways to either control the torc by twisting intentionally to the right or left each time, or leave your hand as it suits you in the hope that it will always be so. Instead of a lighter, you can bend 2 or even 3 fingers, but this does not solve the problem of a torc anyway it will be. Over time, it becomes constant no matter which way and you just have to adjust the bow to this torc. Something like this.

[@Abdu572]

This tip improved accuracy I cant believe I was obssessed with arrow type and bow tuning Now I shoot different arrow all same accuracy

[@byronm7234]

Thank you for the recommendation. I will give this a try!

[@codycreager4428]

Using the lower stabilizer mounts makes it even more stable 👌

[@CryptoHuntinDad]

I know he's at home shooting at new Mach 33.... he couldn't stand not shooting his bow

[@smokythebear9711]

I was struggling with geouos today. Just got back from shooting with a different grip and huge instant difference

[@nunyabidness9578]

“Don’t cross the lifeline”. I like it.

[@juliusjames5577]

Dang it Dudley! My shooting improved but I took up smoking again. Thanks…..

[@Stickbow1980]

The main downside to more let-off is we're getting into the area of how much of a technological advantage do we need over a wild animal. I absolutely live to hunt , but in today's world we're walking a fine line of having so much of a technological advantage when does it start to affect the " fair chase" aspect these animals deserve.

[@iamsecond3625]

Great tip!

[@BassWhoopinFishingTeam]

Wooden dowel rods work great too! And there is no risk of fire lol home depot sells them in a ton of different diameters

[@sargoii]

Great video, and great idea. What kind of release do you use?

[@MicPrime]

Must try it.

[@WesternNyBigfoot]

By using a horizontal 1 pin. It alleviates shot anxiety try it

[@gowithabow]

excellent topic and video. gotta get that bow hand right!

[@jerrynelson2216]

My left and right is fine, struggling more with up and down

[@Truthwalk777]

65% 4-hunting & target 💪🏾✅🔨💙💰🏹🎯💯

[@jamesstockton3777]

Holy shizzzz.....I just tried it today and I've got to say I was skeptical but it does work

[@ShorrockPaul]

Small hands an AA battery works pretty well too..

[@benspeedschannel888]

I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently, I don’t understand why there isn’t a grip system with a ball and socket that illuminates torque 🤷

[@royleerobinson5]

Did you come to Colorado Tac? I seen the stand setup.

[@ryanjordan3131]

Makes sense to me.

[@Y0ursTru1y]

My problem is with up and down pressure changing I think. Some days my shots are all low.

[@danielplantz2957]

Probably not. Probably just subconsciously trying to bring your pin down below the target so you can see the target

[@novarocker247]

I’m just just getting into modern bows from instinctive recurve and a very low let-off Hoyt from the early 90s. I’m having to relearn a lot. I’m having the issue of when I take the tension out of the bow, I’m not as accurate. If I hold the pin until impact the arrow drops on the pin. I feel the bow is accurate. I’m not as accurate.

[@Farmersforever1993]

Good lesson and Dudley Rockin the new Boobie sight. Hopefully we’ll be getting Knock Versions sometime.

[@phillipcooper1637]

I'm gonna try this

[@trevorjohnson7440]

Im a simple man, john makes a video, I hit the like button before the video even starts lol

[@WoodsandWater72]

That bow, the color guhhh.... Just looks so bad a$$ I love it. I wish I could test shoot this bow but they don't sell em at my archery shop 😢 NOCK ON!!

[@MrContemplation]

I was told not to grip the bow at all until after the release. I shoot decent groups but an I doing it incorrectly?

[@MrGagliano2413]

@Nockonarchery what let off are you shooting? Do you change your let off for TAC and or hunting or do you shoot the same let off all the time?

[@jolookstothestars6358]

Would you say the pushing tension and the pulling tension should help with aiming? I'm definitely good to try this thanks, I'll show my son as well.👍🏹

[@Corewood_TJP]

To some extend yes, I think so. Ever since I started shooting with mechanical release (appr. 2010-2011), I have shot back tension release. That forces you to have this tension in the holding position. And I also found that rather than pulling the shot of pushing the shot of can do wonders - but you still need some pull also. It can however be tricky to set the back tension release to the exact correct pressure that suits you. Because sometimes you have a liitle more initial pressure, so if it is too light it goes off, as soon as you activate the back tension mode. I think most of the time, I have had it set quite hard, so I have to pull/push relatively much to get the shot off. I find that there is a position during the shot cycle where I aim pretty steady, but in most cases that was not when the shot goes off - I had to push/pull more, what makes me and my sight picture shake a little. But I have shot pretty well shooting back tension release and a few times I tried to shoot triggered, I found that I shoot better in back tension mode. But - it is a bit physically hard to shoot that way, making it a bit difficult to shoot 6-arrow groups, if you don't take the time to it. So Last week I started to see if I CAN shoot without back tension mode - i.e. setting the back tension release (Carter Attraction) to a so light setting that it goes off at pressure on the trigger. But when you shoot this way, you should still have some pressure on the "wall", so that you sight picture don't get too wobly - plus also to be sure that you have more or less the same pressure against the stops / the same draw length (not creeping). In general I found that I shot a tad lower in triggered mode than in back tension mode. But I also found that could more easily shoot 72 arrows with 6-arrow groups, without getting too tired (but you still need to take your time to it with small breaks between the shots). In general I found that my grouping is worse than with back tension, I also found that I got these random very bad shots, that I most often don' have with back tension. But I have to give it a week or two to see if I can get it more consistent, and to see if I like this better than back tension. Because I also hade some quite nice groups - perhaps with one arrow wandering more or less off.

[@megamatt9222]

How do I get a all white bow?

[@MrMuypop]

Man that bow looks like a whale bone! Gnarly!

[@oscarolivares9323]

I just tried this while practicing and it help improved my groups instantly 😄 But now I just broke a nock off an arrow 😨

[@jrhunt414]

I disagree with reflex geometry itself making a bow easier to torque. BH, limb design, and cam design ; and as you said string tension are the factors that create the moment arm length and reactive forces at full draw that resists hand torque about the axis of the grip. Lots of bows with long limbs, traditional limb angle and lots of reflex. These bows resist torque more than a lot of newer past parallel short limbs with very little reflex. Just draw the free body diagram for the grip axis at full draw and you’ll see real quick what resists grip torque statically and what creates larger moment of inertia to resist it dynamically after the string is released.

[@c10chevyguy35]

Makes sense to me. I love my Hoyt Ultratec 2000

[@allanstriber5272]

Dont grip it.... Ya rest in palm when you shoot you want it to drop away... Almost surprise you

[@bearinthewoods3]

Why does he talk so slow ??

[@erikofthedead649]

So others can digest the information he’s giving. Slow your ADD brain down 😂

[@jordansundheim7]

@@erikofthedead649if only i could just slow it down

[@bowhunt9968]

This is NOT a good idea. Good form and consistency is all about muscle memory. Why would you introduce something you are just going to have to ditch later. I am not carrying a lighter with me to the range or 3D course, and I am certainly not going to hunt with one. Your fingers should be more relaxed than what they would need to be to hold a lighter anyway. Just teach proper form to begin with, and don't introduce anything that you need to remember to have with you all the time or something that you have to get used to NOT being there later. Just plain silliness.

[@rockfieldlangley1955]

Jeez. You missed it bud. The lighter makes it so that your fingers can't wrap around the handle, correcting a form problem. I didn't take it that he was suggesting to always use a lighter,LOL! Its a tool. Do you have bad grip form? Try introducing a lighter while practicing to encourage better grip form/mechanics.

[@bowhunt9968]

@rockfieldlangley1955 No, i think you missed my point. I understand the purpose, I'm just saying that is a poor teaching method. What happens when you get used to the lighter being there? Then you have to break the habit and get used to it NOT being there.

[@rockfieldlangley1955]

No, use it as a retraining tool. It's about correcting improper grip. The lighter will prevent you from wrapping your fingers around- preventing the bad habit of death gripping- enabling you to get reps with better/correct form. If you've built the habit of gripping incorrectly then it can be hard to switch off. Like any sports related training, sometimes the only way to retrain is to get a lot of reps with correct form. This is a way to accomplish that. It's about correcting bad form. You were right that learning proper form is better, but that's not realistic, get into anything new and it won't take too long to realize that you built some bad habits, and can improve things.

[@rockfieldlangley1955]

He specifically instructs to lightly wrap around the lighter. This is excellent instruction.

[@bowhunt9968]

@@rockfieldlangley1955 As good as proper instruction that doesn't require any extra props that you have to ditch later?

[@goodvibesteadyblazin]

i can't wait to try this tomorrow !! i have a feeling i have been doing this lol