How A New York Times Reporter Scammed Hundreds of Musicians

[@BennJordan]

Update: This is all being called a "troll campaign" by Ian. If you were an artist/troll who got contacted by Ian/Synesthesia Media, or wrote on the project, please spare a moment to fill out this form I made: forms.gle/d2CAtWSZHNpehgyB6

[@activistarts7722]

Thanks for fighting for artists Benn! ✊

[@elianmusic7452]

Youre incredible Benn, thank you

[@atomictraveller]

...and now he's got 1000x the attention west papua will ever get these people have been slaughtered for sixty years

[@Windiguana]

It absolutely isn't a troll campaign though.

[@_B.C_]

Are you 100% sure he won the awards he won? Or is there also a possibility he’s just someone who changed his name to someone famous he might have looked like to help further his con. Might be time for you to hire a PI.

[@ZonkerRoberts]

I teach photography and digital design at a university near Boston and when time at the end of semester permits, I often do a class specifically on scams directed at artists. One thing I stress to students is this: "If someone thinks your art is good enough to use but not good enough to pay for that's an insult, not a compliment".

[@LeeHawkinsPhoto]

As a photographer myself, I would suggest that this _needs_ to be part of the class and not just something that gets tacked on if there’s time. It’s great when students learn from others’ experience on the business side, and not just on the practical side. Most artists don’t see themselves as business people, but that’s where many of them end up, and it seems like any university program worth its salt should require that it’s graduates understand how these things work so that their skills aren’t just limited to the art they have learned.

[@jennhoff03]

That is SO well-said! I am constantly getting asked to do shoots in exchange for "exposure" AKA them posting it on their instagram page. Um, no.

[@RealHomeRecording]

​@@jennhoff03 right? If someone is not even interested in coughing up say 20 bucks they are scum.

[@dddebz]

It’s so hard to convince some artists that their work is worth actual money. I also believe that our data should be making us some of the revenue generated by hosting platforms when they’ve sold our info without notice to us each time as a product. But I digress. :)

[@KTPDAILY]

Day One --- "class specifically on scams directed at artists" -- All Will Benefit

[@ltr94]

Only just seeing this now - I was one of the 462 artists... I thought something was up. But when you don't have management or if you can't afford lawyers it's really difficult to know if something's not right. Thanks for shining light on this!

[@SR-ih1be]

This is a class-action lawsuit. These contracts are 100% bad-faith, and a judge would lawfully void them. In any case, Ian's reputation should rightfully go down in flames, since what he did is despicable.

[@hydra4370]

alternatively he could literally go down in flames for doing something this abhorrent

[@chrisdher65]

@@hydra4370 the NYT will protect their own. Look at CNN not reporting on the chomo’s working there. Project Veritas is doing the heavy lifting there

[@jamescollier3]

all that does is make lawyers rich

[@_PatrickO]

@@chrisdher65 Project veritas are republican pedos. They only attack certain pedos based on politics, not because they are pedos. If a pedo has to be a democrat to be bad, that should scare you. In reallity, all pedos are bad regardless of their politics. Plus okeefe has been caught lying multiple times and again, all based on his bullshit perception of politics.

[@SMAAAASHTV]

@@jamescollier3 it's not about making anyone rich. It's about releasing the artists from a bad faith contract, so they can retain the rights of their own music.

[@agitat0r]

Benn, this is citizen journalism on a high level. You're obviously a man of character and heart. Massive respect. (And by the way, Terra Firma has been on my main electronic list for a decade. I had no idea that was you! Now i know. I'll spin it even more now :)

[@Drunkenvalley]

This contract sounds increasingly unconscionable. 1. A company is alleged to be the third party, but... they're not. 2. This company is supposed to have obligations, but... they don't. 3. While performing none of the promised duties, it rakes in a cartoonishly large, overwhelming amount of money. Y'all need to sue his ass.

[@iggysixx]

That contract has more red flags than ink on the page. I was lucky to have a friend that managed bands professionally, when negotiating my own band's contract. He walked me through each point to explain to me 'what it actually meant', so that I didn't accidentally give away the master rights for nothing in return, and that the Artist (us) could decide the type of music they made (and that the label had no say in it). The tricky part about this whole situation is that... The story this journalist had is kind of similar to when you're talking to a serious label that actually DOES invest, and DOES make things happen for you. We made sure WE were in touch with the agency that did the album promotion run (to cut some red tape). The label also helped get us onto a reputable booking agency (while we retained the right to book shows ourselves) Crucially (for all the new artists), you need to have any promises in writing. Crucially #2: the period the label is licensed to distribute your recording (and any other period mentioned in the contract) should be limited (not 'indefinitely'). (That includes the use of the logo / bandname / your likeness, and the withholding of any funds to be distributed after costs have been recouped). Crucially #3: have it written down WHEN the label will do certain things. (For instance; 'album release within 1 year after receiving the master, or the agreement becomes invalid, (and you are - for all intents and purposes - free to release it elsewhere)' As THE most simple rule: Anything that's not written in the contract is NOT part of your agreement. Anything you agree to in the contract IS part of the agreement. Any rights you give away; Any undefined periods; Your creative decisions (does the label have a say in those?); The different rates of royalties for pressed media (CDs, etc), digital (sales / streams), and maybe publishing. (If there is something in there you don't like... Tough shit: You signed it = you legally agreed to it). Do your due diligence before signing anything. These days you can find examples and explanations of what certain contractual terms mean on the wonderful world wide internets. When in doubt, ask a lawyer to look at it. It might cost you something, but knowing what you sign is important. Last tip: "in perpetuity" means FOREVER.

[@Seanyy]

I mistakenly signed this contract but obviously was waiting to see how future releases unfolded before submitting an EP. Was already planning on cancelling on this before seeing this video. Really happy I found this video. Thank you so, so much for sharing this brotha!

[@ericpeters0n]

I live in LA. I worked in the music industry for many years. Never, ever give part with a copyright solely for "promotion" or "exposure". It's always a scam.

[@ericpeters0n]

p.s. He knew it was a scam. 462 artists...?

[@juggyno7990]

Yea that’s a big no no 👍🏽

[@2fathomsdeeper]

Same as being a photographer. Never give out any camera RAW file! EVER! That file is your proof of copyright.

[@PhatPazzo]

@@2fathomsdeeper But that sucks, as the customer with photo interest I would definitely want the RAW file. Isn’t there a better way to handle this?

[@joeshmoe7967]

@@PhatPazzo You go back to the photog and pay the fee for the 'new' image. In the old studio and wedding days, you as client never got the negatives, why should this be any different? I supposed for the right price, I might part with a neg or a RAW, it would depend on the gig. In the case of 2fathoms, I think he is referring to publishing, where the magazine etc, 'just wants the RAW to ensure the best quality for publication'. In that case it is NO NO a 1000x NO.

[@dollemore]

Great piece. You were fair and more objective than I would have been, considering how you were personally impacted!

[@jamescollier3]

yeah. then he lost his mind and kinda apologized at the end lol

[@KingofCrusher]

@@jamescollier3 Probably because he's a genuinely good dude, and also in case he gets involved at some point legally it'd probably be kinda bad to have a video where he just calls the dude a total piece of shit however justified.

[@jamescollier3]

@@KingofCrusher doubt the caving would be shown in court. lol.

[@KingofCrusher]

@@jamescollier3 yeah but you know, probably best to just stick to the facts and maybe he was genuinely a fan of the guy before this all went down.

[@Spyd77]

Fair? You mean "Too nice", right?

[@prsjackal]

This needs to be referred to the DOJ…. Seriously. Given this was done online using emails that seem to be cut/paste and targeted to several artists, this could be classified as spear phishing. Imagine the number of artists who didn’t respond to his emails?

[@wilfdarr]

Could fall under internet fraud?

[@NoPe-rx5nb]

Exactly! Not to mention anyone who feels comfortable doing this on their own (ie not bc their job said to or whatever) has basically got to be a committed manipulator/liar/scammer.

[@josephlieberman3027]

Even the Postmaster General as it is Mail Fraud by the letter of the law, any point in this scheme he caused the United States Mail to be used at all in any way

[@orlock20]

He didn't create the scheme, he borrowed it. A group of creators of the scheme are people behind photography contests. All entries become property of the people running the contest. One could get hundreds or thousands of professionally done photos for free. Those photos can then be used for things such as calendars, advertisements and photo albums.

[@SalemikTUBE]

This is exactly why I refuse every year to contribute a photo for the company calendar. There is nothing in it for me and I'd be steaming if I saw the image on a card or calendar in a store.

[@a_changedworld]

Mate, they do this with design students every year - packaging and industrial design, graphic and web design awards promoting "student innovation".

[@drrenard1277]

@@a_changedworld the university did that to me but left the creative Commons mark on it. Oups.

[@jonbongjovi1869]

ANYTHING that involves MONEY / POWER / FAME / SEX is super-corrupt and has been for 100 years. Time to BURN THEIR MANSIONS DOWN.

[@AFAndersen]

Basically what Facebook is doing as well...

[@RedMeansRecording]

1000 words asking you to work for exposure smh

[@nachshonrorick]

Hey, don’t forget this included that dope “Ian Urbina Ocean Sounds sample pack” + exposure. 😜

[@JktuUekmw]

@@nachshonrorick if only he'd think of also throwing in a midi chord pack, he'd be a billionaire by now

[@MilesAwayOfficial]

😂😂

[@Timecop1983]

Wow, i absolutely had no idea it was a scam! He contacted me too in July 2019 with that exact same email! Luckily i was on tour and didn't have the time to do work for him, but we emailed back and forth a few times and i was very interested in the project (mainly because it was by the NYT and he was backed by so many great artists and outlets). I'm so happy i didn't end up working with him, but sad to see so many people were scammed by this dude. He seemed legit (in the beginning at least).

[@electrosonicnebula]

How could you have suspected it really with such a tight sales pitch. The amazing part of this story is how he managed to con some pretty bright people, and a lot of them.

[@tokoyo]

Me too…wasn’t on tour tho 😂

[@jedrooney4302]

yo its the legend himself, Im a huge fan man...

[@Mark-kt5mh]

You and Lazerhawk.... Absolute legends!

[@cakenbolls442]

Man I really love your synth pop-ish stuff!!!!

[@danpatterson8009]

When I worked at IBM we used to get pitches from other companies who seemed eager to collaborate with us but went silent when it came time to talk numbers and sign a contract. They just wanted to tell third parties that IBM was "involved" in their project.

[@ccav01]

Whenever they offer exposure as your compensation ask them who did the engraving for the $1 bill. I can't think of a more distributed and recognizable work and I'd guess less than a handful of people know who it was.

[@Audioscribe]

Urbina reached out to me a year ago and I passed after seeing the agreement. I had no idea it was this massive. Thank you for exposing this scam for what it is

[@CollegeMusic]

This is crazy. Thank you for shedding light onto this and for telling your story.

[@trentivor.]

exactly.. jesus christ.

[@alison_synths]

I also fell for it because of the deceiving emails. I thought there would only be about a dozen artists involved and i also remember seeing your name and thinking it must be legit. After talking to other artists, I realized what was going on and exited the contract. I re-released the song i made as my own after removing all Ian's recordings I had sampled. Great video, thank you for talking about it 🙏

[@RosentwigMusic]

Thank god you saved me from this.

[@alison_synths]

@@RosentwigMusic 😎🙌

[@DarkOperative]

I'm trying to find the original email, but he absolutely reached out to us to try to get This Will Destroy You on board. We looked at it and ultimately determined that something wasn't right about the business side. Thank you for the deep dive, per usual.

[@MilesAwayOfficial]

Absolutely crazy to hear this was a scam. I was reached out to about this as well. The timing never worked out with my schedule at that time otherwise I would have likely been scammed as well. Benn you are an absolute champ for artists everywhere, don’t stop doing what you are doing!

[@schmoyoho]

Men will become a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist, invent a new type of audio journalism, and open a web of shell companies simply to avoid going to therapy

[@aristideregnier4883]

You should see what women will do. (Look at New Zealand). The phrase "The path to hell is paved with good intentions"

[@DemagogueBibleStudy]

@@aristideregnier4883 wtf are you talking about

[@jaksida300]

@@DemagogueBibleStudy Crying about COVID restrictions I imagine, or just that a woman in high government position exists.

[@schmoyoho]

@@DemagogueBibleStudy big godwin's law energy

[@TokyoXtreme]

@@aristideregnier4883 Based.

[@allyourgardeningneeds]

Benn, I just want to commend you not only for tackling such issues with a lot of professionalism, but also for offering some way for the perpetrator to get things right -- to the point where you would also get involved to lessen the harm done. That was the case with Behringer as well. You bring no ego, no click-baiting, no empty higher ground; you explicit very clearly what's wrong and go the extra mile to turn the situation around. You have my admiration as a musician, a creator, a public voice, and a human being. Even as a tiny, minuscule artist, I feel represented. All the best to you, and thank you so much.

[@brendansmith]

What happened with Behringer? I'd been wondering what happened with them.

[@krazykeywizard]

That behringer video was incredibly well done, 100% agree.

[@AdamS-nd5hi]

deff. a reporter certainly wouldnt give someone else the same benefit of the doubt

[@WeAreAllAstronauts]

Couldn’t agree more. Well said.

[@novadeviator]

+1

[@thecaveofthedead]

Bravo for negotiating the legal minefields necessary to expose this.

[@Rhythmattica]

It truly is something not to ignore... This would've been draining .. from the moment of realisation, to this, walking , not running, as a messenger.

[@raygordonteacheschess5501]

Lawers "negotiate the legal minefields" is he one?

[@timarivobatis1182]

navigate?

[@OptimusSatanas]

@@raygordonteacheschess5501 Lawyers act on behalf of their client's wishes, do they not? Way to be a pedantic blowhard BTW.

[@DavidDiMuzio]

Great meeting you at NAMM. What a crazy story. It's too bad that schemes like this are all over the place in the entertainment industry.

[@Goldfishlive]

OMG we received this too! Basically he is just doing what all record labels have been doing for years and years and years with generally similair results just every now and then they actually luck out and get a hit...

[@davegraham716]

Lol... yeah that is actually pretty true a lot of the time, especially in an Era when there are little to zero recording & (physical or digital) media production costs involved.... which leaves a label doing very very little beyond maybe a small bit of marketing.. if your lucky

[@LevithePoet]

Wow. Yeah I spent a ton of time on emails / phone with Ian. I got my whole team involved. In the end, we didn’t end up taking the project, but weeks of excitement / stress / etc went into the conversations. I literally think I still have his Spotify playlist that he sent for inspiration still saved on my Spotify. So crazy. It’s weird - the mix of emotion arising now for having felt flattered by something “bigger” than any opportunity we’d had before… and now seeing this. Glad we couldn’t take it on, I guess. Heart’s out to so many other artists in the same (or wa worse) boat. Thanks for sharing, Benn.

[@philipmarsh3522]

This is utterly mind boggling. I had a “business” some time ago where I provided samples of local band’s music to venue (bar) owners to connect the two together and helped the artists with a fairly standardized contract and some basic tax advice. I charged artists the whopping total of nothing to do this. Basically, I wanted to hear better music when I went out. They had no money and could barely afford gas to get to gigs. It pisses me off that this guy would do this to creatives when he has a good job and no real need to exploit people. Seething right now.

[@uncanny6819]

Wow fuck yeah. You are a cool dude and thank you for your service. Signed, working class musician who cannot afford gas or knows how to do contracts or taxes.

[@joeshmoe7967]

Cool! I have always wanted to do something to move some bands along. I am just not a sales guy or promoter guy, just can't talk to strangers in the right way. If I am really behind something I comer across as crazy (at least I think so) best I can do is offer discounts on merch as I print apparel for a living. You set an example of what good people can do. I am also a wannabe musician and appreciate what you tried to accomplish. - Cheers

[@jayh6227]

You should collab with Benn.

[@57thorns]

In a fair world, the venue owners should have paid you for the service of finding those bands and making sure everything was covered. I know of one band that wrote their own songs, they would take a gig for next to nothing, then report the performance to STIM (Swedish composers association) and get a decent amount of money that way. Unfair from them, and I guess they never played the same venue twice. I like your idea better. The bad news is that once you are a member of STIM, they own the rights to your music,. not you, and you will never be able to perform a song pro bono, or release it to public domain if you wanted to. (Except 70 years after you die.)

[@ts4gv]

that sounds awesome

[@JamesonNathanJones]

Benn, thank you for doing this. After I read the agreement they sent me, I couldn’t believe so many amazing artists were signing on. I still find it rather ironic that a writer who’s work is all about literal piracy on the high seas seems quite alright stealing from an already embattled group of creatives. Mind boggling.

[@bojacknorseman9009]

What if he was literally just studying them for tips? “Hmm, I too know of vulnerable populations looking to improve their lives. I smell a business venture!”

[@patpagano]

so it's a meta joke you say about being an actual modern pirate

[@bluesdealer]

Typical NYT hypocrisy. This is why journalists deserve less respect

[@aschnt-983]

​@@bluesdealer no, they deserve a purge. There still are pretty good ones but in a sea full of sh1t. Who's work is ethical, who's not. Who's able to report impartial news, who's not, ... Bad journalism is a threat to society, as well as bad politics and corruption. I mean, not calling for anything here but if we were 200y back. I'd be outside helping some heads rolling, for the sake of gen to come. Its a fight greater than us as a person. Unfortunately in a society so focused on ego, it won't happen. People are afraid.

[@jamiemcnally4851]

A polished turd is still a turd

[@dbackscott]

You pay Ian a lot of deference at the end of your video, and I think that was a mistake. If someone is willing to be so brazenly dishonest in one area of their lives, then they are typically willing to be dishonest in all areas of their lives, in my opinion. I will now regard anything written by Ian Urbina as suspicious and untrustworthy.

[@CommercialForest]

That was my first thought, too. But suspect he did that to bolster the legitimacy of his critique (I.e., it’s objective, not sour grapes)

[@dbackscott]

@@CommercialForest fair enough

[@marcuslawson-composer2892]

Nah he just took the high road.

[@taylorhorner1065]

Greed hiding behind a cloak of fake altruism. It's running rampant in the west.

[@borisyeltsin6606]

I think he really meant it too, ian urbina has produced some of the most important journalistic works covering human rights in the past two decades. The idea that he would do this is absurd. Fortunately he has not profited off the music monetarily, but this whole event has left me stunned

[@ponyforhire]

Synesthesis Media has issued an apology ending with on December 7th "We hand you back your music and you're free to publish elsewhere on your own" You did it Benn

[@rdizzy1]

Apology isn't good enough, they owe many people quite a bit of money.

[@oscarfogelstrommusic]

Yup. Did it roughly one year ago. Didn’t feel great when I realized there were 350 other albums out there already… keep us posted! Thinking about how I can get my tracks "back". Haven’t received a statement or a penny yet

[@exerciserelax8719]

I hope you and the other artists get justice! Based on what was presented in this video, you were completely misled and taken advantage of.

[@katem3]

Audacity must be on sale 'cause this Urbina guy has fucking loads of it

[@Message2Bears]

😭

[@Masterball777]

No Audacity is still a free download. (Ok ill see myself out for the bad joke)

[@unwoman]

@@Masterball777 I came here to make sure someone made this reply ahaha

[@wrmusic8736]

@@Masterball777 not only it's free - it's also open source - so anyone can have audacity of his own!

[@jackallenproductions]

@@unwoman yeah, samesies, and we thought we were so original & cool.

[@michaelcoutts9470]

I will be honest. This calls into question the integrity of his journalism.

[@bluesdealer]

At this point? I mean, mainstream journalism had zero integrity left long before this point. It’s been that way for quite a while.

[@Sethiol73]

If this is the first time a "journalist" at the NYT has made you think to draw into question their integrity, you haven't been paying attention.

[@Nick_Lamb]

Just working at the NYT is questionable.

[@nathanieledwards7150]

Pretty sure this is a Norm Macdonald-esque type joke right?

[@patrickhall6627]

@@nathanieledwards7150 Hey, quit stealing my moves!

[@AntoinneBarnes]

Benn. you came across my youtube randomly. but i was totally wrapped up in your story. thank you for the information and education on this type of scam. most of all you have gained a new fan because of how you wrapped up the video!!! Mad love and respect to you my friend!! merry Christmas!!!

[@homuraakemi493]

It's always surreal to remember you're sharing this existence with literal actual sociopaths

[@noahleach7690]

and theyre vastly overrepresented in positions of power

[@jevinday]

For real. I'm constantly racked by guilt from random things that pop up in my head that I did years ago without even meaning to. How do people go out and do it on purpose and be fine with it?

[@TheStarBlack]

​@@jevindayempathy isn't evenly distributed through the population. And a lack of empathy gives a person so many more opportunities to amass wealth and power by exploiting others.

[@WeAreAllAstronauts]

I was contacted by Urbina back in May 2019 to be involved. Luckily I was busy with other projects... what a crazy scam. Inviting 20 artists is one thing, but hundreds is so obviously profiteering. Thanks for doing the video!

[@WeAreAllAstronauts]

...and the email was identical :/

[@WeAreAllAstronauts]

I've also emailed him and his "assistant" back to inform them of this video and pass on my hope that they can make things right. Hat tip for still recommending Urbina's writing at the end.

[@WeAreAllAstronauts]

@eanfran Haha, I knew I should've googled that before writing it!

[@Erameld]

So glad I bailed on this project when they refused to provide an estimate or sample calculation in regards to their "recoupable costs". They've refused to be transparent about the money from the very beginning, all while describing themselves as a charity. Very disappointing, and if Ian Urbina is interested in maintaining any sense of integrity, they should return 100% of the streaming royalties and rights to the original creators, and issue both public and private apologies to all involved. Shameful

[@Sekaitunes]

I got contacted and really was about to go ahead and make the music for him. I even signed the contract. I was even handed a deadline afterwards, and I was very stoked. After hearing about all of this fuckery, I got legitimately sad for a while. Thanks for shedding light on this, it covered it super extensively

[@ulime]

Ohhh my boi Sekai :(

[@TheAsdsdswww]

I just read a couple of articles about this... the truth is that no publication seems to have the time or the will to spend a good deal of time and brains, they let Urbina get away with loose ends and inconsistencies.... but you put your time, brain and energy into this, thank you for that

[@MarcusSchmahl]

Oh my god... Urbina contacted me too in 2019 and I signed, because his ideas were "amazing" (Netflix series with my music, other big artist names signed already, big compilations, a lot of press features and so on!). In the end I added 5 songs to his library and got royalty statements with "zero" money since the day my songs got released. I asked why it is like this, but the answer was standard blah blah ("your music isn't running well...", etc.). Now I'm reading press coverage of Benns video and I am upset! I am a musician working for the industry for over 30 years. This is an absolutely terrible story in my life as a musician and artist. :(

[@alison_synths]

They would also make an artwork and a promo video for each artist that you had to post and promote on social media. The thing is that they made the artists pay for the artwork and video without them knowing. They would take the money directly from your own 50% cut, that's why people had negative balances

[@exerciserelax8719]

It's disgusting how artists get exploited so much.

[@one23johnson]

You should reach out the NYT to write this as a guest OpEd

[@MozTS]

Like they had anti war oped during the iraq war? NYT are frauds

[@SpencerMMusic]

@@MozTS ??? how is this related ???

[@dorkle9085]

@@SpencerMMusic Yeah what the hell

[@ModernDevotion]

@@SpencerMMusic capital protects its own unfortunately.

[@exerciserelax8719]

Now that would be interesting!

[@MichaelGilboe]

Wow. Blown away by the scope of the scam and your amazing scope of coverage. And is a great reminder that even people aware of and on the lookout for scams can still be hoodwinked. There were a couple times I came close to being involved with some compelling project or other that seemed on the up and up, even as I am wary myself.

[@nicolasgeijo1785]

Benn. Your work is incredible. Thanks for doing the legwork and daring to create content of this quality. I can't wait to see how this plays out.

[@thequietfoundation]

Beautiful, cogent, and fair reporting of this horrible behavior. I am outraged, and very sympathetic and supportive of your case.

[@cloudstalkin]

I'm a tiny pebble in the music world. But this video Benn is a real eye opener. Thanks for making this. Real investigating and just honesty. 5*

[@DamienSlingsby]

Damn Benn, can you PLEASE do a video on contracts in the music industry? I feel like you could do an amazing job of educating us all about the contents of standard and written contracts in the music industry - I'm really sorry shit like this happens to musicians, but I'm really glad there are people like you who can be so succinct and honest about it. Thank you.

[@thomasmeluch8643]

Thank you so much for this ; I contributed to the project based on a trusted friend's recommendation, and because of that ignored a lot of red flags -- when they had the nerve to ask me to do the Chomsky project after never paying a penny for the OO tracks I laughed aloud. What a brilliant and horrible scheme, well and fairly explained.

[@GODHATESADOPTION]

Never touch anything with the name chomsky... pseudo intellectualism is bad

[@imoldgreggboosh3467]

@@GODHATESADOPTION Never touch anything with the name dolan . . . pseudo knowitallism is bad

[@GODHATESADOPTION]

@@imoldgreggboosh3467 good luck with that mo mo hugely popular name hold your breath lol

[@GODHATESADOPTION]

@@imoldgreggboosh3467 butthurt someone called out chomsky? Lol

[@swannvictor1388]

As a Brit, I have to say, the American legal system is amazing: notoriously litigious as a society, yet a crook can get away with this crap completely scott-free! quite incredible.

[@kruksog]

The whole thing is rigged for already well-off white people to make more money. It's disgusting.

[@hhiippiittyy]

They like their legal system to be like their healthcare system and school system, and really just the entire system. Pay to win.

[@Nick_Lamb]

@@kruksog Less about race than money by a long shot. Also, random question: Do you consider ethnic jews to be white?

[@Nick_Lamb]

Yes, as opposed to the U.K. where nothing like this could nor has ever happen.

[@SuperSmashDolls]

Your legal system isn't particularly all that different from ours - after all, where do you think we got it from? France? The only difference I can think of is that you have a copyright small claims court, and we didn't up until very recently. But unless you somehow made lawyers cost a tenth of what they do here, while still having the same level of legal competency in their given jurisdictions, you're still going to have the same problems with access-to-justice and pay-to-play that we do. Especially with copyright, which is one of the most fact-intensive and expensive to litigate forms of law you can possibly write. Also, all of this was done within the bounds of copyright law, which is very harmonized as it is. Actually fixing scam licensing deals like this would require either radical transparency in copyright licensing, and/or imposing a price floor on it. Neither of which are things that the creative industries in question actually want to see happen. I also don't see any jurisdiction in which panhandling for creative works is illegal or verbal promises are treated as overriding written contracts.

[@JesseBourretGheysen]

Wow, this is crazy! Hope a good resolution is found. Good on you for putting in all the leg work on this Benn.

[@Nightmoore]

God, I love this channel. It's so refreshing to see a fellow musician actually sticking up for his peers and calling out this kind of bullshit.

[@SteveLinGuitar]

Incredible video. I’m a professional classical guitarist and I was mentored to say no to gigs that promised exposure and promotion. This message needs to continue getting out there because every generation of musicians will need to learn and relearn this lesson. Thank you!

[@3xceIIent]

I feel like promotion and exposure could actually be okay in some circumstances. Certainly not when they write a clause in the contract saying they don't even have to do it though. And even then of course an artist should still make money on top of it. I just mean to say that some promotion and exposure could help too. Maybe this arrangement doesn't actually exist though, which I suppose is why its so scummy.

[@dallascowboys75006]

Dude - you have a fascinating life and your a natural storyteller - your videos are as intriguing as any fancy doc on the tv. And thank you for sharing all the cool, wild and crazy stories (in addition to all the helpful music making videos, studio building videos that I use and o ya, all the fucking cool music) and allowing me to sit comphy and secure in my suburban, upper middle class bubble and live vicariously through your current and past experiences.

[@bricelory9534]

Thank you for this! I appreciate your ending statement that a promise of exposure is at best an insult - it's also entirely self-congratulatory, that the reward for you as an artist is getting Mr. Big Name to recognize you. And that's a load of bull. Being paid for your work doesn't sully the art, it is a clear and straightforward way to show the value people have for it. A good reminder too to be skeptical of "too good to be true" opportunities and try to work through the contracts you enter.

[@evanwise7131]

I worked as an I house composer at a music production house in LA at the beginning of my career. The company got started by paying tv production companies tens of thousands of dollars to get the work then they’d offer them the publishing. I was on a mediocre salary and was able to collect 25% of my writers share. The owner of the company claimed 75% of all the music written for ascap while the other owner claimed 75% of the writers for BMI. I haven’t worked for the company since 2014 but they still make $250,000 off my music each year and the productions companies are collecting all the publishing. I’ve spoken to lawyers about reverting my writers share back to me but they say the contracts are pretty solid and I did agree to it. It’s also in ascap rules that one cannot claim writers share on music in which they had no hand in writing. Funny though because ascap gives this company awards every year for violating their own rules. Pay to play at its finest.

[@AndrewSouthworth]

Wow I got the same email from this guy! Its almost word for word identical haha. I replied to it and asked for more info, he replied back basically explaining there was zero pay and you were working for exposure AND he was taking 50%, so I ghosted him. Sad to hear anyone fell for his scam. It would be one thing if there was no up front payment but you kept 100% of royalties, but wanting 50% for doing essentially nothing AND adding yourself as a credited artist is insane. This is even lower than those sketchy playlist labels you see online nowadays.

[@HotelPools]

He contacted me a year or so back to write him a song for him documentary. If I was more naive and hadn’t been through music biz bullshit already I may have done it. Huge red flag when he brought up Universal Music and owning the masters..Good on you for posting this.

[@HotelPools]

Sorry Warner music. Still. Never do that.

[@joeshmoe7967]

@@HotelPools Universal, Warner...what's the diff...they all sleep in the same bed with the same motives. Record companies seem like the ones who started the whole 'you will own nothing, and be happy'. A band sells a million copies (or even 2m) and hasn't made a single penny? Rule #1, don't sign any contract that you don't 100% understand. Sad that the industry is so dirty. I have dabbled forever, and still want to do something, but haven't figured a path yet. - Cheers

[@CharlieRiceMusic]

Your final comment at 19:14 is one of the most important statements all artists should remember! I'd love to have it on a plaque hanging in my studio. (Of course, I'd send you a check.) Another excellent in-depth video. I hate scammers!

[@difflocktwo]

People are disposable. If you won't do it, they will find someone who will.

[@einglert]

Based on perhaps shared experiences I want to agree this life is full of takers and makers; and, yet also want to push back a little and say that cynicism masquerading as common sense may be the death of risk-taking creativity. You and I contribute a unique vision and are therefore not disposable. Cheers!

[@LeeHawkinsPhoto]

@@difflocktwo but if we educate more and more people on these scams, eventually the scammers will have too hard a time scamming and try something else. Like seriously, why is it we require 4 years of English classes in high school and general electives in college but we require ZERO practical financial and legal training when the first thing most kids do at 18 is sign a whole bunch of contracts that pretty much all doom them to financial servitude for years and years of their life to get what in return? I’d really like it if kids actually understood how the system worked and knew how to spot a basic scam a whole lot better than they do now...because society is just pumping itself full of ripe new marks the way it works here in the US.

[@DuShaneTony]

Very solid video and information. This is the best example of how to approach these conflicts. I've seen similar ones in Hollywood, and as artists we can get a little grumpy and short sighted in our reactions..I mean MY reactions to similar things in the past. So, thank you.

[@louibeans]

Kudos to you for uncovering this and staying so level-headed and respectful in this video. I'm only commenting to give this more oomph for the YT algorithm. I hope those artists will get an apology and compensation!

[@Standard.Candle]

I know these deep dives aren't the crux of this channel, but I always love them. Sounds like you could teach some lessons to that jagoff about journalism. Your patient research, clear explanations, and compelling storytelling are simply wonderful to behold. And your demeanour teaches us all restraint, which is hard to believe you can portray so well considering how close to home this story is.

[@justbighills.6135]

Not the way i´d hoped to see myself back in a Benn Jordan video( I can see my EP in the artists involved part lol). But thank you for cleaing this up. When he reached out to me he actually used your name in the mail as artists who are involved, in order to get people excited to join I guess. I remember asking many times about what artists will be involved, and they just not wanting to tell me because the "roster wasn't finalised yet" lol

[@aristideregnier4883]

Jesus christ you people are scammed easy as fuck

[@justbighills.6135]

@@aristideregnier4883 thanks :)

[@user-ym4yt9bo2u]

dang I loved your tapping cover of fireflies from a few years back, interesting coincidence to see your name in the comments here. the deception is so scummy but def gonna check out some of your original music now

[@wearenonsens]

Haha wtf, thanks for diving deep into this Benn! As an artist on the Outlaw Ocean project we hope somebody enjoyed our "Silver Clouds" EP at least, even though we now feel it is made of a scam. We were blinded by the opportunity to do something good for charity. Haven't read a book since high school and Ian was able to make us dive into his book. Felt kinda nice to read again, and it was a good and informative book, lol.

[@Hiram27]

You were surprisingly objective and even gave an olive branch opportunity at the end. Good video and information.

[@digitalconsciousness]

With the contract, I was saying in my head "well, it seems like because of the contract, he's in the green as far as legality goes" but then you mentioned that he's parading around as a non-profit without actually being a non-profit. That's really bad. For him.

[@LukeTruanMusic]

Wow! This is so unethical for Ian to construct a contract and a media company to clearly steal the IP and royalties from so many musicians. I'm glad I took the time to watch your video. Thank you for taking the time to make it. You have saved so many from wasting time working with Ian on any projects!

[@BNLNRD]

Ha, I actually saw his name pop up here and there with some local artists and wondered "huh, what's that about...?" What a story! I second the notion NYT should publish an article (your article?) about this!

[@kalibduarte536]

Benn, you are an amazing human being. Thank you for all your support for the music maker community.

[@peterlahti7267]

My wife is an artist/designer. I´ve seen it: "this will be BIG, you will get great PR" blah blah blah. Disappointed with all these journalists who promote their own career and nothing else (yes, of course there are honest ones - I personally know a couple, but too many of them are just in it for the money). I know how much heart, soul & struggle artists and musicians put into it. I checked you out on Spotify and I like it. I will start listening to you regularly, for what its worth.

[@TristanEckerson]

I never comment on youtube videos, but this time I couldn't help myself. Ian contacted me about this project. I did some research, read through the contract, shot a few emails back and forth, and then said no thanks. He was a little aggressive in asking me why I was going to pass, which I thought was weird. But unfortunately in this country there is nothing illegal or really "scammy" about this. It's just a really crappy, exploitative project that he convinced tons of musicians to get involved with. And the truly sad part is that after years of working in the "music industry", I have encountered tons of people that offer me crappy, exploitative projects pretty similar to this. Honestly, your entire video pretty much described the majority of the record labels I have been approached by over the past few years. That's pretty much the business model of "net labels". You do all the work, we take ownership of your work, we do absolutely nothing to promote your work and still make way more money than you- rinse and repeat. Oh yeah, and we own your work forever and can do whatever we want with it, without asking you for permission. My only advice when being approached by music industry folks, or weirdos like Ian Urbina, is to do your research, and always keep this in mind: They don't care about you! They are a business, and business is always about profit! You are their means to profit, and they will take as much from you as they can and control it as much as possible, and give you as little as they can get away with in return. That's essentially the definition of American Capitalism, right? So if you are going to sign your art over to anyone, always make sure that the sacrifice is going to be worth it, and that it's going to benefit you enough to justify giving up your work to someone else. Anyway, very well made video. And I felt very vindicated watching it, because I remember at the time, after I passed on this project, being really upset about what a sleaze this Ian Urbina fellow was, and how ridiculous this project was for the musicians that put there time and work into it.

[@QueMusiQ]

Dude, still lawyer up. I don’t care if other companies ARE suing him already, this is a class action suit waiting to happen. He’ll clearly settle, and fast.

[@jamescollier3]

only lawyers get money in class action lawsuits

[@MK-ge2mh]

It's not large enough for class-action.

[@commodoresixfour7478]

@@jamescollier3 Good lawyers deserve it. Sometimes it's more about the principle than the money, also a good lawyer will give you a lot of entertainment value.

[@commodoresixfour7478]

Also He will be forced to settle, otherwise he will be deposed. Forced to tell the truth.

[@brookeg5979]

@@MK-ge2mh Class action can move forward with as few as 20 people. There are at least 462 (as stated in the video), and maybe many more as he continues to send out the emails and now has the new Chomsky version of the same scam.

[@brendanlewis326]

I want to believe that this is all some sort of misunderstanding. Then we find out the "record company" is his wife. That's a scam. He knew what he was doing. He purposely left out key details when speaking to these artists.

[@TokyoXtreme]

Maybe we can ask Urbina to do some investigative journalism into this story.

[@Simon-xi7lb]

I wonder if he's a fact-checker?

[@plinn2112]

This is one of the most engaging videos I've seen in a while. Kudos to you for shining a light on this bad behavior! It's one of the oldest scams in the book against artists (free creative services in exchange for exposure), just in a very unique modern format. And it's not like Ian just got carried away one time - this was a massive, sustained, deliberate effort.

[@fatherWolt]

The only thing more criminal than what this dude did is that this story hasn't hit the headlines! I am floored by this whole situation and cannot believe he's been getting away with it for as long as he was. Hope the lawyers make quick work of this :)

[@KantiDono]

I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, until it was revealed that the LLC he was 'working with' had been founded by him. That's 100% a scam.

[@thisismaplesyrup]

Thank you so much for doing this. I almost fell for it as he approached me a couple months ago. Everything about the offer seemed sketchy but I thought "hey he's a Pulitzer winner and he writes for a very established media so it should probably be okay". Funny how your mind then suddenly transforms otherwise a very fishy inquiry into something decent, as if his accolades have something to do with this offer. Again, thank you sincerely. Glad I didn't sign anything.

[@Windiguana]

As a fellow musician I feel for you and everyone else who was taken advantage of by this man and his wife. I was a Times subscriber, but that just changed. I refuse to support this exploitative crap, even indirectly. I made sure to let the Times know why in their "reason for cancelation" field.

[@GuyRicheyGibbons]

I appreciated the grace offered at the end. As someone who recently felt hurt by someone I worked with closely, it's not an easy step to take to offer grace and mercy when wrongs have been committed. Keep creating, Benn. Thank you.

[@Yokai.Wakukhan]

The chronology is so logical it's so coherent. You got the gifts of an angel my dude. This translation of information is nothing short of awe inspiring, yet casual. Green flaaaag. And DAMN what a rip off!

[@ethai1]

Putting the whole scam thing aside (which I had no idea about, so thank you for telling us about it!) I'd like to take a moment to appreciate the way you present your videos. Many youtubers today rely on quick, fast hyper cuts every 2 seconds, yell with fake excitement, use clickbait titles and so on. If they don't do that, then they use annoyingly sarcastic language in their videos. After watching some of your videos, including this one, you're one of the few youtubers I've encountered that actually takes the viewers seriously and talk to them in an intelligent way. Thank you for this. Subbed.

[@Septimius]

Thanks for being a consistent voice of reason for musicians. You're extremely level-headed, and I respect how you fight to improve the conditions of musicians and the music industry. Thank you.

[@DietmarEugen]

Input magazine reports on this:

[@thatcarlchick7655]

Yeah, the title of this video is misleading; it should say "How a Former New York Times Reporter...". He started the scamming after leaving the NYT; they shouldn't be tarred with the brush he deserves.

[@agentvx8320]

"So, there is no upfront money." So, there is no upfront music.

[@difflocktwo]

Easy when you are established. These days you can't even get a job after graduating. You need work experience to get work so it's impossible to get work.

[@buildingblocks8287]

haha... you know about that story of a restaurant asking musicians: "hey, can you play for free in our restaurant. if the people like it, you can come more often. its a great promotion"... and the muscian replied: "We are often hungry. You can come to our appartment and cook for us for free. if we like it, its a good promotion for you and you can come more often" :-)

[@DarkSideofSynth]

@I'm Changing My Name At last someone with a grain of salt. Say no from the get-go. Plenty of opportunities to work for free on your own projects, no need to do charity for non-charity "clients" ;)

[@AndrewSouthworth]

@@SianaGearz Definitely not true for any profession. Engineering graduates typically have jobs lined up prior to graduating starting at $70k per year or more (and that was 5 years ago, its higher now). Many other technical fields are similar. Its definitely a problem for a lot of career paths though, I want to emphasize that, but definitely not all. Its bullshit for sure. I know people that get rejected from entry level jobs because they don't have experience, despite having a masters degree in that field. I know others who do work for free or dirt cheap so they can build up a portfolio or a catalog of experience to land them the first job that pays what they're worth. It seems like the more creative industries are the worst at this. In general musicians and artists always get the most screwed it seems.

[@difflocktwo]

@@AndrewSouthworth Technical/ engineering is the same. Maybe it's easier in the US.

[@OwlVision]

I’m so fucking glad I turned him down when he reached out. Thanks for exposing this because I think a lot of other artist got really confused too when recieving an email from the NYT wanting to collaborate 🙏🖤

[@OwlVision]

Also just filled out you form 👍

[@jenniferthomas]

I am an artist who is part of this project (though as of this morning I requested my contract to be nullified, and my name and track removed from the project). I felt validated by your video, so thank you. To throw in my two cents, I don't think Urbina set out to be deceptive or shady, and his work is very impressive. He is very talented and knowledgeable within his realm of expertise and experience. BUT, I do I think he stepped into a business world (the music industry) that he knew nothing about and got way in over his head. There were many things that were red flags to me, but his clout and reputation was impressive. I'm not an artist who needed this project or the publicity (I have over a half billion streams on Pandora alone, over 100K monthly listeners on Spotify), but I wanted to be part of the intent and purpose. Instead of the multiple tracks originally asked of me (there was absolutely no way I would have done that), I however did agreed to do one simple track. But I did not like how it went down or how artists were not seemingly valued for their free labor, talent, and time. As an artist who also was screwed over by another entity (Pledgemusic) who showed years of solid reputation and cloud and gained artists' trust, it is disheartening to see more artists being taken advantage of. I'm frankly over it. Moving on, moving forward. - JT

[@dwindeyer]

How do you get from being "in way over your head" to skimming the royalties from 600+ artists for the same "project" that never materialises? At some point you have to cut your losses on his reputation and say the dude is bad news.

[@jenniferthomas]

@@dwindeyer totally agree - which is why I decided I could no longer have my name associated with the project. All of the "good intentions" can't make up for what actually happened.

[@forrestgreene1139]

@@dwindeyer Spot on and she didn't really answer it. Please don't make me read her post again.

[@infohnie]

Also received the email on my other artist account. Luckily never got involved. Sickening that there are people like Ian who are scamming creative people. Not sure if it will work, but I reported his Insta as a scam page. The video is amazing Benn, keep up the great work!

[@jimmyfrigginpage]

Absolutely insane. Thank you for the piece - I cannot imagine it was cheap given all the time, effort, and attorney’s fees that likely went in.

[@toefes]

I’m really glad I’ve come across your channel. I’ve watched a lot of your videos and they all feel like passion projects and are very well excecuted. Thanks for sharing this knowledge once again to make future musicians be wary of these types of scams. My band got contacted about a month ago for a special casette release and they also demanded 50% of the rights for promotion and distribution. They got a royal no and a blackmail listing.. x’D

[@vintageandmorelli]

We (My manager and myself) got the same email in June 2019, and since I was touring, and got busy with other projects, we ultimately declined, and luckily dodged a bullet ^^

[@velosurseine]

What an amazing, messed up saga. Thanks for explaining everything so clearly even for us non-musicians. Plus, your objectiveness in giving Ian props for his investigative work is a breath of fresh air in a world full of netizens eager to throw one another under the first bus.

[@kizza2435]

Unbelieveable video Benn. You are essential to giving real insight into the music business and I cannot thank you enough for what you do.

[@AaronWelchMusic]

Stellar video Ben! This hack is an insult to the industry, and anyone who promises paid promotion can damn well promise paid work.

[@Inhake]

Thank you for covering this story. Just a note on the video itself though, it was very hard for me to keep up with the parts where you read the contract legalese, because the text kept scrolling.

[@richardstarr4932]

I would hope that some music industry magazine or newspaper or even something that cares about it would report on this. Your reporting here is worthy of recognition. It would be ironic if you managed to get a Pulitzer out of it. It astounds me that such contracts could be legally permissible. I would love for the FEDS to launch a RICO investigation against this. When he says "an" artist as well as promises the collecting company would expend $50K, that makes me think deviations from that could allow for contracts to be dissolved and the royalties that were essentially stolen to be returned to the artists.

[@Mchannemann]

Another well done video on a difficult topic. Kudos to you and I hope it achieves its goal to prevent further musicians fall for these things and that there is some movement in this case

[@Shmittery]

Well done Benn. I hope your work here saves others from getting sucked into work like this...

[@Pteraptera]

I'm glad I passed over the book. I was mildly annoyed how its title was too close to "The Outlaw Sea" by William Langewiesche, which is an excellent read.

[@enargins]

I'm not familiar with your music, and I've never heard of you before, nor of this project. I only stumbled across this video because of the KZbin algorithm. I just want to say, you have my respect. Glad you made this video. Hope it will help bring justice to people.

[@kirktown2046]

Wow, thanks for calling him out and being honest, Benn. Ian is why we can't have nice things. Not only is our access to music completely gimped by DMCA, but we have swindlers exploiting musicians on the other side.

[@oscarfogelstrommusic]

This video seems to have made an impact! Just got an email from them where they basically back tracked. Let’s see 👍🏻