How Bad Are Brawl's Low Tiers?

[@ZachHonest]

If you want early content! Videos always upload there first and you get access to the Honest Content Discord! www.patreon.com/honestcontent

[@NintendoTV64]

Brawl's low tiers are so bad, they're absolutely hilarious and a complete joy to play as. It's really fun discovering just how butchered these characters were in Brawl compared to literally every other game in the series and trying to find viable strategies for each of them.

[@Thatguyyoudontknow594]

The captain is a sin though like damn hes ass

[@yean4573]

ike is considered one of the most fun characters in the game despite being pretty bad (i'm not biased as an ike main 100%).

[@SomniaCE]

The nice thing I can say about Brawl bottom tiers is that they at least function fully. A lot of Melee low tiers are there primarily due to being unfinished, buggy or were intentionally kneecapped

[@Aflay1]

A lot funnier now compared to back in the day, when many thought this would be the final installment in the franchise. Before we knew Project M and Project Plus would overhaul the game entirely.

[@jambott5520]

​@@SomniaCE Kinda? Game and watch, yeah. Not having a functional shield, and not being able to l cancel aerials definitely fuck the character. However, he would probably not be above mid tier. The only one you could point to for intentionally being kneecapped is pichu, but having a joke character is not bad game design. A lot of the lower tier characters are victims of game design not accounting for competitive play, not bugs n shit. Obviously bugs play a big factor, the game is a hot mess, but it is overstated how much glitches lead to characters being low tier. Roy, game & watch, those are probably the only victims to that. I think part of the issue is that the game was not built with any sort of knowledge for how fucking fast the game was gonna end up, so slow characters get fucked. Along with that, I highly doubt Nintendo understood just how important recovery would be. If Ness had a half decent he would be bumped from bottom tier to a mid tier at minimum. As for being unfinished, low tiers benefit just as often as they suffer from that. Links neutral air is a monstrosity, Roy's up special can ohko light characters on some stages because of the fucky way it's made,

[@StanleySophana]

Fun fact: every Melee veteran's jump squat (minus Bowser and Zelda) was increased by 1 frame.

[@stuffenjoyer6677]

😭

[@Wizzkidwas]

Sakurai loves having pink puffballs as top tiers in one game and then nerfing them 6 feet under in the next

[@SortaNonymous]

And also having them never get close to relevance again. Yes, it does sting as a Jigglypuff fan and especially a Kirby superfan (although honestly I'd take Kirby being bad enough to make Brawl Ganondorf look like Brawl Meta Knight if it meant we'd have any halfway decent Kirby representation post-2006, aka when the series actually got really good)

[@GameFreak839]

Correction on the Bowser segment because he actually IS better in Brawl than he was in Melee: Bowser has a lot of janky grab release combos, setups and hard reads into kills he can do on most of the cast, so he does at least have a niche in that regard. It doesn't really do as much for him as some would want, but that does put him above his Melee incarnation IMO Plus there's the fact that Flying Slam has no landing lag and refreshes his double jump if he's already used it, so his mobility is actually...alright. Doesn't make up for his ground mobility, but at least he has that too

[@BrawlCentral]

Nice explanation.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Yeah Melee Bowser is way, way worse. Melee Bowser literally has get up attack, and the "don't play stupid" Fair. That's it. That's all he has. Technically he has up b out of shield, but it doesn't do anything, and doesn't really improve his position long term. Brawl Bowser has good throws and grab release, his F-smash having 2 hits makes it more punishing to shields, basically all his attacks are some combination of more reliable or harder hitting, and Flying Slam gave him something to do on reaction. He's not GOOD, he's still old school Bowser at heart, he struggles to do much effectively, but when he IS working, he actually has some mojo, and his worst attributes are considerably better. Also flame breath actually works, and flameguarding is kind of okay.

[@kingkongs1399]

Grab release kill confirm, Bowsercide Cancel, airdodge to upb on the ground was really good, Amazing Oos options and really good killing power. He was bad but he still had more tools then portrayed here

[@sykkamorre4779]

He’s even one of the few characters with legitimate shield break setups, thanks to bowser bomb’s bonkers shield damage and wide hit box. Correct spacing would hit all options for some characters meaning it is “perfect block or instantly die”. Brawl bowser was a fun boy.

[@DevelonLP]

Bowser air dodge spam and air side b were really fun You would also get your double jump back if you used side b close to ground and side B auto canceled. When i played bowser in smash4 in the beginning i was still doing side b expecting it to auto cancel. Bowser was bad but he was schmoving in the air.

[@domdollahyt]

It’s funny to me that none of Brawl’s newcomers were in the bottom tier lol

[@dashieprodx]

I mean, Ivysaur is generally considered even worse than Ganondorf, but being a part of Poketrainer it's not ways counted

[@domdollahyt]

@@dashieprodx Squirtle saved his ass lmao

[@Straw_Breaker]

@@dashieprodxI didn’t know that, imagine going from being THAT bad to being one of the best characters in Ultimate

[@Right_Bumper]

While not being bottom tier, Sonic was pretty bad in Brawl

[@markymark443]

because they were new so the devs didn't have the opportunity to nerf them before the competitive community took advantage of their broken movesets lol

[@Haispawner]

Real shame Brawl had the *rawest* sound effects of all Smash games period. Like every hit had so much OMPFH behind it.

[@MILDMONSTER1234]

And that’s why project m is so good

[@anothenblue2630]

Only Ike really hits that spot. I prefer 64 SFX otherwise. Such a shame Ike got gutted in the next two games and they even took his Great Aether.

[@morphstarchangeling8024]

God I miss Ike's forward air from brawl. It hit like a truck with the sound effects to match.

[@raphaelsorel6907]

@@anothenblue2630No, Brawl trounced those sound effects and you know it.

[@anothenblue2630]

@@raphaelsorel6907 only for Ike, the rest is awfully flat and you know it.

[@freeformfunposting]

Even with MK & ICs removed, the distance between the top tiers and bottom tiers is so much larger in Brawl than in any other game seemingly

[@tannerthunell6228]

FLUDD may have been useless but it had the coolest feature of staying on Mario’s back for a little bit making him look cooler. It’s a shame they would nerf that feature later.

[@swisserty]

Wild thet if he wore it upside on his front the fludd attachment would be spraying his weewee… remember that? Discovering that water pressure in the shower or tub as a young boy, tanner? Now mastered with technology and strapped to you, wow

[@toxic_shr00m]

​@@swisserty??????????

[@swisserty]

@@toxic_shr00m remember that toxic shroom? Discovering the water pressure on the wee wee? Now imagine technology perfected

[@newhandlesaredumb]

​@@swisserty My brain ain't braining

[@PaypsAgain]

​@@swisserty Can you not talk about piss? You just sound creepy af

[@CalculusMan]

But the big question is this: who is worse: Brawl Ganondorf or Melee Bowser?

[@ZachHonest]

lmao

[@SiMgUrL1721]

Who is a worse Low Tier character between Luigi in Smash 64 vs Mario in Brawl? I bet that Mario is definitely a much worse Low Tier character than Luigi is, by far.

[@mae_lia]

brawl ganon easy, it's not close

[@Pwrplus5]

@@SiMgUrL1721 every 64 character is capable of nonsense combos because the game doesn't have DI and has insane hitstun, so Luigi can do relatively far more than any Brawl low or even mid tier could dream

[@brennantmi5063]

Brawl Ivysaur

[@demolitiongod64]

9:03 This jerky feeling comes from the fact that falcon dive goes less distance if you use it from the opposite direction that falcon is facing. (This limitation is also present in sm4sh while it's not in melee or ultimate.)

[@plabcentral630]

I love where your content sits. Competitive history but where anybody, vet or casual can enjoy.

[@soupsmaryo]

It's so funny to me how Nintendo's best characters are so bad in their own crossover fighting game

[@SiMgUrL1721]

I'm just angry on how Mario is considered to be one of the worst fighters in Brawl. Yes. I get it that he was NEVER even remotely meant to excel in the ability department in the first place. Especially since he was ALMOST considered to be a Low Tier character in Smash 64 and Melee (especially in Smash 64) back then as well. However, this is just proof that goes to show that Sakurai is clearly NOT giving him the respect that he actually deserves as Nintendo's mascot. Sure. His character abilities may be a bit below average at times, but he doesn't deserve to be a Low/Bottom tier character at the same exact time in ANY Smash game as well.

[@BlueCat98]

@@SiMgUrL1721 And then Sm4sh and (to a slightly lesser extent) Ultimate came along... 😂😂😄😄

[@SiMgUrL1721]

@@BlueCat98 I guess that it's pretty difficult for Mario to consistently be a good character in Smash since he's been considered to be an all-around balanced character, for the most part (except for Brawl where he was underbalanced). I think that the only reason why he's pretty good in Smash 4 and and Ultimate is because that Sakurai has finally fixed up his below average character abilities that he originally had in the first three Smash titles back then. Although his character abilities have gradually gotten worse over time in Melee and Brawl since Sakurai kept on nerfing his KO Power and Recovery in both games for some strange reason.

[@tmgthemariogamer3676]

​@@SiMgUrL1721 Smash 4 Mario was a monster in the right hands. Same for Ultimate

[@SiMgUrL1721]

@@tmgthemariogamer3676 I already acknowledged that Mario is pretty good in Smash 4 and Ultimate. However, I think it's just because that Sakurai has finally fixed up his average to below average character abilities that he previously had in the first three Smash titles. Sakurai just found a way to make Mario a good character in Smash for the first time while he still retains his all-around balanced stats just like he did in Smash 64 and Melee back then.

[@mandalorianhunter1]

I wouldn't even call them low tiers, just call them bottom tier

[@BirdieSenpai]

I feel like Brawl extracted all its major buffs from veterans and gave them to newcomers. Almost all veterans either got worse (Puff, Ganon, Falcon) or stayed about the same (Bowser, Marth Falco, Zelda), with very few exceptions (Kirby, Pikachu, Ice Climbers). Most of the returning Melee cast placed similarly in tier list to how they did in Melee or dropped significantly, whereas newcomers largely dominated the higher tiers.

[@honathan2135]

Ics did not stay the same they went from like mid high tier to top 2 in the game

[@BirdieSenpai]

@@honathan2135 Oops, meant to put them with Kirby; thanks for catching that.

[@flydrop8822]

I think Brawl devs simply did not care about any balancing at all, they simply threw random numbers that "felt" right for each character and fixed some jank from Melee (while introducing a lot of new jank unintendly) and never cared to test any character on a high level play setting. Brawl was meant exclusively as a casual fun party game where it didn't matter how good you were. With that being said, Brawl has one of the best additions to the roster, best maps, and by far the best campaign mode of any other smash game, so despite it's overwhelming flaws in competitive it succeded in bring a very fun and content-full game (unlike smash 4, in my opinion).

[@DuyuCoyote]

Retired melee Ganon main, guide writer, tourney goer and tourney hoster here. Brawl Ganon ended my career almost immediately-I had time to write the first ganon guide for brawl, and that was the last guide I wrote for ganon. Sakurai just bled the character dry of anything that could be fun. Even in the current game I would trade some power for some of his old melee speed.

[@vreschen939]

Out of curiosity, what did the guide actually consist of?

[@DuyuCoyote]

@@vreschen939 Been too many years to remember and it didn't get saved after all the moves i've made in life. if it were anything like the giant melee guide I wrote for ganon it would have combo's, movement tips, safe options, and those little gems like glitching out your wizards foot on ground to get a tool that hits ahead and behind you. I along with two other people released guides for characters the day brawl was released. Good memories doing that work atleast.

[@BrokenG-String]

"History repeats itself" "History repeats itself" "History repeats itself"

[@honathan2135]

You forgot to mention that bowsers side b has zero landing lag in the air and he gets his double jump back when you use it close to the ground which buffs his mobility He also has grab release follow ups on most of the cast and he can chaingrab grab release some characters

[@ph1lny3]

Yeah, he was talking about lack of jank yet Bowser has a guaranteed ftilt from grab release on nearly every character, and he has a walking ground release CG on several. Iirc his air release stuff was pretty good too. His upB oos is still a really good option, especially since aggro pressure/frame advantage on block got nerfed. It's still very commital, but still made his punish game very solid. If anything, on paper he actually had some good jank compared to most. The biggest problem is the cast that matters the most out-janks him hard. My Bowser friend main had to deal with people counterpicking D3 and invalidating him without them really even needing to put much time in learning the D3 infinite. And he's terrible against MK, ICs, and Diddy for other reasons.

[@sorafowler4497]

Hi there, please dont take this to be mean or a hate comment cuz its definitely not intended to be, but I wanted to mention that when talking about KO power and strength of moves, it would help the viewer see the percentage of the character getting hit, so we have more context of how good or bad the KO power is. Otherwise, amazing video! ❤

[@kendukin9725]

It'd also help if, in brawl, he didn't spam the move to show how "weak" it is. Brawl's stalling is the most extreme in the series, so it'd be more accurate to show a fresh move barely killing at high% than to spam knee on ROB and visibly see it do less knockback despite the percent raising.

[@demolitiongod64]

@@kendukin9725 To add on to that, Ganon dair still kills very early, and is probably a better move in brawl due to being auto cancellable on short hop, and meteor canceling being much weaker. Brawl ganon has some other decent/good moves but auto cancel dair is what prevents him from being completely unplayable lmao.

[@sbsb7352]

@@demolitiongod64 "Its a better move in Brawl" Ummmm LOL No. The move could KO at 60% on center stage in Melee LOL

[@demolitiongod64]

@@sbsb7352 No it couldn't, maybe to jigglypuff on yoshi's story. Regardless, being able to short hop auto cancel the move is huge.

[@sbsb7352]

@@demolitiongod64 "No it couldn't" then proceeds to say it could LOL

[@ahmadkazan5473]

Reminder that sonic was seen as a bottom 5 character at the first brawl tier list.

[@mm3shadowman982]

Poor Twilight Princess, all three of its characters are in F tier

[@Bruce-906]

R.I.P Douglas Jay Falcon

[@UltraNurture]

Link also got a slightly different side special in Brawl being the Gale Boomerang from Twilight Princess. From what I remember the windbox wasn't great in this game.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Yeah Gale Boomerang was pretty inconsistent, which was pretty terrible, and probably net worse than the melee version. It got MUCH better in 4

[@nahor88]

@@aprinnyonbreak1290 Gale Boomerang could actually HELP opponents recover... which is extra insulting when you consider how bad Link's recovery is. He didn't even mention how they shortened his grapple recovery, and took away the mechanic of characters being able to grapple any part of the stage. He does have the benefit of zair having low landing lag, which is the only thing that kept him SOMEWHAT viable, primarily by Izaw.

[@stuffenjoyer6677]

It wasn’t even helpful to the one actually playing the Link who threw the boomerang.

[@yobin3711]

I still don't know what the fuck is going on with Bowser's dash in melee and brawl. What is he doing he looks like he's bugged out

[@mattb6522]

Yeah, I'm glad they gave Bowser an actual dash animation in Smash 4 and Ultimate. His dash in Melee and Brawl looks really stupid.

[@bluedistortions]

Considering they had 13 months to make melee, I think they ran out of time and had to cut some corners.

[@stuffenjoyer6677]

It took 13 years to give Bowser a good running animation. THERE WAS TWO GAMES BETWEEN MELEE AND SMASH 4.

[@Countdownsmiles]

I mean, you'd know better than me since i haven't played brawl in 10+ years. But mario's flud doesn't actually seem to have bad pushback in that clip, seems reasonable

[@ACobalt]

True, but the problem isn’t how far FLUDD pushes opponents back, the problem is that it’s so laggy. By the time you finished pushing them back with all your charge, they can just walk back in to where they were, making the move really useless. It’s bad at gimping recoveries too cause it’s Brawl, where everyone comes back from everything.

[@Countdownsmiles]

@@ACobalt i didn't say it was good, in the video he says it has bad push back and that's what i'm talking about

[@honathan2135]

That is more Luigi's traction being low and not fludd

[@Countdownsmiles]

@@honathan2135 OH that's misleading as hell lol, i would've used a character with more traction if i wanted to demonstrate how bad the pushback is

[@honathan2135]

@@Countdownsmiles yeah

[@X-kam2087]

The creator of this game really hates the legend of Zelda

[@camharkness]

Zelda may be low tier, but that wont stop me from playing her every time i play brawl and melee.

[@tankster27]

I'll still use her to this day. I don't care how bad she is.

[@camharkness]

​@@tankster27I would still use her in ultimate, but they added in sora and I haven't played anyone else since lmao

[@glauciarochelle]

the running animation of zelda is much like she is slippery

[@vKarto86]

Ivysaur is a lucky dude! He's worse than most (if not all) characters in the video, and yet, being part of Pokemon Trainer saved him from being here.

[@XsyrusX12345]

The Brawl Low tiers are so damn bad, that even my friends and me felt it, and we are complete casuals.

[@LilypadOW]

I remember some of these characters videos. It’s almost as if history is repeating itself!

[@projectz358]

I shall never forget when i got a double knee off stage in brawl in doubles. Good times.

[@yeyeKubrom-nr3rl]

The quality improved quite a lot keep it up💯

[@Rain0327]

Captain Falcon being a low tier in any Smash game should be a crime. The fact that there was even a period where he was considered the worst character in the game really speaks volumes on how hard Brawl fucked him over.

[@malcolmbringuez1579]

I feel so bad for these characters

[@ronaldeugenebarrowman8798]

Brawl Ganondorf is really a joke in this game

[@stuffenjoyer6677]

Just like Little Mac’s aerials.

[@ronaldeugenebarrowman8798]

Yea true I kinda forgot about little Mac aerials since I don't really play as him that much

[@lousy7580]

“It’s almost like history repeating itself” being repeated like history repeating itself

[@troykv96]

The few times I had decided to return to Brawl to check the game, I can't help, but feel like the game is in slow motion, probably it doesn't help that outside of good Newcomers and Pikachu, everyone else feels back to use xD. At least I get a bit of joy using Ganondorf because Flame Choke is so funny.

[@joezzeff]

Idk what it is but is the last background song that plays during ganondorf's song zeldas lullaby from OoT remade with the FF7 soundfont? Or am i off completely?

[@bigmanliam]

Whats that saxophone song in the background when you talking about samus? Its so heat

[@Freeraining-og7uh]

They nerfed a lot of characters too much

[@smugs7921]

I am glad this man has the tastes to use Persona 3 music absolutely slaps

[@svgatk]

fr

[@cancerouscorndog6425]

3:20 as a huge binding of isaac fan I had no idea what the rest of that song sounded like 😭

[@Ninjakurl7]

brawl ledge 13:35

[@williamcaine5446]

When I saw this I thought "Captain Falcon seems pretty close to his melee counterpart, speed wise, I don't know what this video is saying." but then I realized I was watching it on 1.5x speed.

[@cutieincosplay]

Poor Ganon, he has been low tier for so long 😿

[@nicofire31]

Zelda being one of the only 2 fighters in smash history to be low tier in every one of their appearances:

[@justasimplemanworkinghiswa1569]

​@@nicofire31whose the other one

[@nicofire31]

@@justasimplemanworkinghiswa1569 Mii Swordfighter

[@terence7009]

nintendo's just like every other company, they haven't figured out the balance between speed and power that works.

[@stuffenjoyer6677]

Imagine Zelda’s pain.

[@slamkam07]

Who cares brawl is such a painfully slow and shitty game that when people say "brawl" in the modern day they're talking about brawlhalla. Brawl felt like absolute garbage to play, especially since it came after melee.

[@PurpleFreezerPage]

Oh baby you can just sense this channel's gonna grow

[@cdgui267]

Sakurai must hate ganondorf and zelda so much, perma bad characters

[@KIRB881]

Weird how Falcon is an f tier considering how good he was in all smash games.

[@ZachHonest]

he had a mid-life crisis its okay tho he bounced back!

[@tankster27]

The only thing this has convinced me to do was to improve with the low tiers. Not sure if it's worse dropping my mid tier main for this... Taking a look at the list I could have sworn that at least 2 characters have some sort of special techniques...guess i need to get back to studying instead of wasting time on Ultimate

[@Valstrax420]

"History repeats itself" but not as much as you do.

[@tylerbradley2785]

what’s the name of the song during samus’ section?

[@definitelydoctorproctor]

Brawl is the first of two times they would ruin the joke of “Zelda’s best move is down b because you get to play sheik”

[@Usta357]

I don't see the point of using Samus with her armor in this game she is sluggish and her hitting power doesn't complement her lackluster speed. I like playing Zero Suit because her speed and combo possibilities are nice due to her speed and grabs who complement the low power range as you can camp some slow characters and mid-speed builds. Her A-UP kick is probably her best move at doing K-Os from memory.

[@chaosjakeatron]

I wish it got better treatment as that power suit was from Zero Mission but without the Gravity Suit which is my favorite design.

[@meta4knight]

Really cool editing style with the white shadow!

[@cappycap8144]

God simply looking at samus made me realize how uber floaty this game was

[@jeremy2797]

At least brawl blessed/cursed us with Mario’s photorealistic denim overalls

[@Valstrax420]

History repeats itself sure but not as much as you do.

[@thelunchking4069]

I played through subspace emissary And only now i find out Mario was a bad character? I should have used Wario or META KNIGHT for the rest of the campaign

[@jasegaming6616]

Same, he is actually super good in the solo modes

[@lrodshrek6086]

Subspace emissary actually has completely different balancing than the base game. Most characters were made way stronger, I think Ivysaur is very good in subspace despite being trash in the base game.

[@Ree301]

The thing that made Ganon unusable was his up B had ZERO hitstun. Meaning you could get him off stage, tank his up B, and mash your characters best aerial to kill him 100% of the time.

[@maneruloquendero]

0:53 I was today years old when I learned FLUDD can do ghost hits

[@fra8nk]

I love watching basement nerds talk about unimportant videogames

[@thethreekings9120]

Bloodyknite sure does make Ganondorf work in Brawl though. Lol.

[@rickster6755]

Zelda is an interesting one, since many of her moves were actually better in Brawl vs the later Smash games, despite her being terrible. Examples being... - Fsmash has 10 less frames of endlag in Brawl, and is much safer to use. However, it connects poorly - Dsmash is faster (frame 4 vs 5), has more range, is significantly stronger, and has leg intangibility - Upsmash is significantly better than all other games. It is almost twice as large, and has 7 frames less endlag. It also hits on frame 6 instead of 9, and does more damage - Dtilt is also debatably stronger in Brawl. It does more damage, has a trip chance, and can true combo into itself multiple times until the opponent SDIs away. It also combod into Dsmash, which was much stronger back then - Fair and Bair have smaller sweetspots, but have about half the endlag. Brawl was the last game that allowed Zelda to do 2 lightning kicks in one short hop (since smash 4, you can do one kick but it won't autocancel from a short hop). This nerf was felt very badly in the Zelda community when Smash 4 came out - Din's Fire had a ridiculously huge hitbox, although it was not very strong. It was also very easy to dodge with Brawl's mechanics Zelda actually received a hefty amount of nerfs going into Smash 4, which was quite funny for all of us to see. It was really the Brawl engine + meta that totally screwed her over. I will say though that Brawl Zelda's moveset still isn't very cohesive even if the individual moves are superior. Smash 4 made her flow much better, and Ultimate rounded her out some more to where she's actually an alright character now.

[@ExtremeSarge]

I still wanna know exactly what brawl bowser is doing in that dash animation.

[@ZachHonest]

Slip n sliding

[@mae_lia]

same shit melee bowser is doing, drugs

[@ExtremeSarge]

@@ZachHonest that must be one hell of a slip n slide if sparks are coming out

[@nsbathome]

His best

[@xh3llodanx]

Man i loved the grittiness aesthetic brawl had i also do miss tp zelda she was so badass (even if she sucked)

[@dangit69420]

the worst move in brawl is sheik's down special. it's so bad sheik herself drops 2 tiers after using it.

[@mafyboy0420]

Ganon CAN side-b chain grab by combing side-b and down- tilt and this can comfirm into down-smash or F smash( hitbox/hurtbox dependant tho)

[@CRXII]

Song at 13:20

[@FriedFlem]

Play persona 3 reload, changes your life. song name is "Changing Seasons -reload-" the one used in the vid is the og version

[@Nora-dl2vu]

OMG NEW HONEST CONTENT VIDEO

[@justinsan2559]

Omg!

[@SuperSaiyanMoses]

sakurai made the whole triforce bad

[@CorrinNohr]

I think Sakurai just had a phase where he hated Zelda characters, I wish they were good, but Link, Zelda, & Ganondorf are still bad in Ultimate

[@mattb6522]

Link isn't bad in Ultimate. He is at worst a mid-tier.

[@CorrinNohr]

@@mattb6522 I think Link is just kind of too slow to do much, which is why I think he’s bad, but he has some combo potential with his bomb & boomerang

[@Randallroks]

There's a very simple reason as to why the low tiers in Brawl would seem worse than Melee's low tiers. Brawl's high tiers are beyond godlike. Melee's high tiers are simply functional, have some neat little tricks to take advantage of and make the most out of the high speed environment. There is more to this if you look at it in another way. By far Melee's low tiers are the worst characters in all of smash history, simply because they're dysfunctional, and terrible on top of that. You gotta accept more than half of your moves won't even work right. In comparison Brawl's low tiers actually are functional, playable, but in comparison to the high tiers they have to compete with, its like rock vs polished diamond. They're simply too good. So when you really look into it, trying to play a low tier vs high tier in melee is possible, they're basically the same, one simply doesn't work well vs the other. But in Brawl's case a low tier is just a guaranteed loss at a glance. There's simply no reason to pick a low tier for how bullshit the top tiers are in Brawl. With all the above mentioned, you'll come to realize exactly why the play rate of low tiers in Brawl is significantly less than Melee's, not because the low tier are worse than Melee's low tiers, but because the high tiers are simply too good in Brawl.

[@castillorc]

Sakurai really be hating on Zelda characters, like damn, just until ultimate there is a decent top tier. And as a Link main, I’m a bit tired of being bodied on an uphill battle, every character has some cheese to win an advantage but not Link, just pure and undeniable skill.

[@stayhumble-.-]

take a shot after everytime double down is said

[@BrawlCentral]

Honestly, this video wasn't all that great, feel like it's the same as with your other Brawl related content in that you didn't do your research properly and are only scratching the surface on your arguments on why x move or x property/characteristic is bad, some of the explanations didn't make a lot of sense. This happens with your 64 and Ultimate content too, so my advice (at least for now) would be to stick to melee or P+ content. Open invitation to hit up our community if you ever need help in doing your Brawl research, it would at the least up the accuracy in comparison to the process you're currently following.

[@tobin2.0]

Found the Brawl Low Tier main

[@BrawlCentral]

@@tobin2.0 nah Brawl low tiers are pretty bad, but the reasons for why they are bad don't really mesh with a lot of the arguments that are being made in this vid.

[@sbsb7352]

gotta disagree, I personally have never played Brawl ever, so this info is completely new to me. I think really depends on your level in the community, if you've played Brawl for years its probably nothing new to you. but for someone like me who doesn't plan on picking it up, this is fine tbh.

[@BrawlCentral]

@@sbsb7352 But I'm arguing that it is not fine, because a lot of the information is missing out on certain nuances or just plain misinformation. The fact that nobody knows much about the game is not an excuse to skip doing proper research and to not present truthful/accurate arguments.

[@BrawlCentral]

I should note that this entire thread is not about whether the video is entertaining or not (it clearly is), it's just that the quality of the information presented isn't that high.

[@WreckItRolfe]

As someone who was maining Jigglypuff in Melee by the time Brawl came out, I was very disappointed.

[@miimiiandco]

They turned Link into Mii Swordfighter lol

[@SuperNintendawg]

the worst nerf to Mario was adding the denim texture

[@dingding12321]

My friends and I got good at Melee before Brawl came out ('01-'07), at least as far as old-school Melee went. Shffling, DI and edgeguarding/ledgehopping were second nature to us and we played competitively with each other for hours every weekend. But we mainly used low tiers, mostly because we found them a lot more fun haha. Mario, DK and Link were our go-to picks. When "moving on" to Brawl we naturally stuck with our favorites, thinking they might be a bit better...needless to say we got obliterated by high tiers at local tournaments despite any amount of fundamentals one could have lol. I played Link like it was my birthright for the first year of Brawl's release and remember a grueling match at one of my last local attendances vs a mediocre MK. The venue audibly groaned when I barely lost while people said "he was so close; MK is just so much better than Link" lol. The worst part is, besides MK everyone was constantly dealing with Snake tilt spam, ezbake gimps and stage-wide chaingrabs. It's amazing how blind people were to how miserable of a game Brawl was at the time. I was going through a bit of a rough patch then and was hoping getting good at Brawl would fix things...turns out the stigma for being good at Brawl turned out to be worse than playing it casually lol. If I went back in time I wouldn't swap characters; I just wouldn't play the game! From ample first-hand experience I can say that Brawl is one of if not the worst balanced games in fighting game history, and it isn't even because of the roster lol. Subspace was cool though! I really wish the actual game was even half as polished as SSE haha.

[@esoteric7990]

You mentioned the meme of transforming Zelda into Sheik, but I would've said the same regarding Samus into Zero Suit Samus via taunting the suit off

[@NaanosVEVO]

it’s almost like history repeating itself with how many times i heard that phrase in this video

[@rooklordofmagic]

The looks i get when i tell people that brawl was the game that made me a zelda main

[@SiMgUrL1721]

I'm actually only angry that Mario got severely nerfed in Brawl. Especially since it's just proof that goes to show that Mario never actually gets the respect that he deserves as being Nintendo's mascot. Since Brawl practically exposes on how Mario just simply has below average character abilities from time to time. Heck, Even Luigi wasn't severely nerfed in Brawl since he's considered to be a Low-Mid Tier character instead of him being a Low/Bottom Tier character. Mario definitely got the short end of the stick here especially since Luigi still had great character abilities when he was a Low Tier character in Smash 64 back then at first. For instance, Luigi had the infamous broken Uppercut move in Smash 64 whereas Mario doesn't have any type of broken moves in Brawl at all whatsoever. Basically, Mario was definitely a bad character ability and Tier List wise in Brawl. I hate to be real negative about Mario, but I'm just speaking the truth on how badly that he gets treated.

[@iiMangoLifeii]

I do like the way Zelda's magic sounded in Brawl. It sounds super strong.

[@nkirmath8621]

Yes link has been bad across every smash game except ultimate (not a joke btw) but that hasn't stopped me from stomping my childhood friends with him.

[@RayBcv1030]

Here's how I'd rank the low/bottom tiers 40: Ivysaur (Using Ivysaur Only) 39: Zelda (Using Zelda Only) 38: Ganondorf 37: Captain Falcon 36: Link 35: Jigglypuff 34: Charizard (Using Zard Only) 33: Mario 32: Luigi 31: Bowser 30: Yoshi 29: Samus Yoshi and Luigi are also terrible and def deserve to be here lol

[@justindekoning9988]

I low key loved playing as zelda she was just so bad it was fun. She does have a few absolutely busted attacks (N-air Up, smash down smash) but being Tall slow and floaty just always make it an up hill battle. Doesnt help most oh her other attack are just pretty useless or decent at best

[@PocketHealer21]

Take a shot whenever he says: "Doubled down"

[@LtheOriginal]

Compare the difference between MK and Ganondorf. And then remind yourself Brawl apparently had a balancing team.

[@iamaeggmcmuffinboi839]

I would say check out Mew2kings tier list video on brawl. He goes into a good amount of detail on the redeeming qualities of certain bad characters more than here.

[@DevelonLP]

Yeah m2k with salem they explained alot tech even lowtiers have in brawl. There is really alot.

[@sage64thecrystal]

I'm stock that Kirby isn't low tier since a lot of characters managed to be in the low tier. (which hurts to say about Kirby, i'm a Kirby player not a Kirby main.)

[@jahjab1226]

Brawl Kirby is probably one of the best versions of Kirby after 64. He's actually a solid mid tier here. Some of the best buffs he would ever receive is in Brawl.

[@sage64thecrystal]

@@jahjab1226 I don't play smash bros hardcore with people but Kirby has been mid to awful, still is my favorite character to use in smash.

[@HRCFre4k]

As a fan of Ganondorf it's really sad that he is bad in Melee and shit in Brawl, 4 and Ultimate. At least he was fun in Brawl imo, Ganon-Parties (Ganon only games) were pretty fun At least he is Top Tier in Homerun Contest - it's sth ig

[@adrianrenard1262]

Melee was a good mistake, but I really don't understand where the Sakurai praise comes from, he genuinely puts a lot of effort to get rid of the competitive scene, so much that even casuals feel it. I remember conversations about brawl with friends and it always was "the Wii smash is boring, I liked the GC one more". The only reason why smash 4 was somewhat good (By that I mean Cloud late game and Bayonetta end game ruined it) is because people Complained about brawl being so bad. But the end boss of course has to be Ultimate with tons of characters and tons of DLC mechanics, gimmicks that do not belong in the game and that were damaging smash 4, so many in fact that it is outright unfair for the OG characters to not have something like that, it is as silly as melee not giving side b to all characters but a few, image how stupid would that be. I genuinely want a sequel were we have less characters but more slight variations, like instead of 80+ characters 35 to 40 with alternates like an OG Ganon and a Ganon magician or Ganon with sword moveset even all 3, change specific stats, animations, frame data for all 3 besides the moveset and boom you have your new mechanic for the game, and the best eveyone has something not just the new with passives and op paralize moves. My perspective from a competitive player, started as casual, melee kinda gave me the push for competitive, braw started my tournament era, smash 4 as semi-pro, ultimate killed it, everyone but 3 quitted :v... I know it will never happen, next game will be more casual more diluted and with more non balanced mechanics that will only apply to a few characters.

[@emishimaru-sama6449]

It's like Brawl was created with a side of disgust towards smash melee xd

[@AngealHewley0]

why?

[@morphstarchangeling8024]

The only low tier missing in this video is Ivysaur. Not pokemon trainer, specifically Ivysaur. Pokemon trainer in brawl has a terrible mechanic where the pokemon would take super effective damage from types like in the pokemon series. This puts ivysuar at the worst as there are more characters with fire attacks than there are water and grass attacks. The stamina mechanic where pokemon would grow tired thus reducing their kill power doesn't help with ivysuar's already weak kill power. He has a tether recovery making it very easy to edgeguard him by just hogging the ledge. All around if Ivysaur wasn't on Pokemon trainer he'd probably be the worst character in the game.

[@ZachHonest]

Ive done a whole video on Ivysaur

[@cloudshines812]

For someone who plays Smash both Causally and a little Competitively… Brawl was the point where the series became absolute garbage. Unlike the older entries where it was about how skilled you were with a character, Brawl and beyond was about “what character carries the best”. That’s why low tiers are especially noticeable, and top tier characters have a very small learning curve that ultimately carries the player through every game successfully. Ultimate I feel has it worst because everyone is “viable” in that game… yet so many characters just carry and you don’t see any skillful matchups anymore. You can be the world’s greatest Little Mac, yet still get your ass kicked by a rookie Aegis or Steve simply because of their design

[@dcsf1]

There's a reason why these low tiers got buffed in next installments, at least most. I'm also trying to buff them on My Brawl mod, since I care about the problems they have.

[@ResistancePasta]

Could you tell me a bit more about your mod? :D

[@dcsf1]

@@ResistancePasta My mod is named "Super Smash Bros. Brawl - The Fan Patch, and it is a mod made to make Brawl competitive by tweaking gameplay elements and characters for balance.

[@chrisouellet6398]

Can you do this with smash 4 low tiers?

[@ZachHonest]

Subscribe and stay tuned

[@writofassistance]

Brawl was MY GAME growing up and my favorite characters were...Samus, Link and Gannon 😂 I've had new smash players come over to my place bragging how good they are until I whip out Gannon/Link on the old Wii and absolutely stomp them. People think Gannon kills with smash attacks, no, forward tilt is the move to use.