How Bullets Work in Pistols and Revolvers

[@Chetterz]

Awesome video. I got so much more than I expected when I started watching. This channel is a diamond in the sea of gun channels.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Chet Lee - I'm glad, Chet. What this video goes into is the basis of the way our guns work best shooting the bullets. But you'll still hear all kinds of things. For many years, Colt Single Action Army revolvers had oversized cylinder throats. This would be poison from barrel leading, but folks in the past seldom shot more than a cylinder or two of ammo at a time. The guns shot fine - so they swore by oversized throats to this day. My Virginian Dragoon with big cylinder throats shoots well for about a dozen shots, then the barrel leading and fouling degrade quickly. My Ruger Super Blackhawks with properly set up throats and bullets .001-.002" bigger shoot 200 rounds of cast, and the last round is spot on accurate. But the Virginian may outshoot the Ruger for the first few shots. That happened on a video I did. Auto pistols and rifles are cut and dried - use cast bullets .001" bigger than groove diameter and you are golden. Revolvers are a whole different and complex world. There's much more to revolver accuracy than what this video brings out, but what is in this video forms the basis from which all other accuracy factors begin. Those factors include - squareness of breechface, cylinder consistency, cylinder alignment and squareness to frame, barrel alignment (are these blueprinted?) to frame and cylinder, timing, lockup, flashgap, forcing cone angle and quality, any bad barrel constrictions, quality of barrel and rifling, presence of pre-existing fouling or leading, quality of the barrel crown, quality of ammunition, and lastly - the skill of the shooter - you may hear some of this elsewhere, but not all. Therefore you won't hear all of this anywhere else, but filter this from your own knowledge, and you will see it makes all the sense in the world. The beauty is that there is so much territory in the shooting sports to cover - the material is fresh, endless and inexhaustible. Best to ya, FC Steve

[@Chetterz]

FortuneCookie45LC I always thought of revolvers as less complicated and simpler devices than autoloaders. However I'm learning to appreciate the workmanship and thought that goes into revolvers. You're such a treasure trove of information. Of course I like shooting but it's so interesting to learn how things work and the history and evolution of guns. Obviously I'm still going back and watching a lot of your older videos. Please keep on posting.

[@terrystover7365]

I missed this video but glad I watched it. I can happily say I studied this subject years ago and am in agreement with all you've said. I learned a long time ago, if you want to know something steer away from what you hear from just anyone and delve into the subject with research from reliable sources. Thanks for all you do.

[@russf6572]

As a test, I opened my Ruger GP100 .357 and inserted two bullets into the nose of the cylinder. The factory Winchester X 145gr silvertip went in easily (with a _very_ slight amount of space) My 'lead' SWC 158gr. (.358 sized) didn't fit anything except the narrowed down tip. Forcing cone? Factory load went in to the brass. Hard Cast went in almost to the lube ring. *I would have never known there was a difference without this video. Thank you!*

[@12floz67]

Being very new to casting lead for my new model super Blackhawk I’ve been purging on these types of videos. Let me just say this his the most comprehensive one I’ve seen. I think I finally understand it. Thank you!🍻

[@5jjt]

I immediately checked my 9mm pistol barrels and both measured 0.030" under the size of the bullet. Maybe that's ok, or I need better calipers. When the calipers were on the actual rifling, instead of in the grooves, my barrels measured 0.010" undersized as compared to bullet diameter. I also determined that the wall thickness of the 9mm casing is 0.010". Excellent video. Thanks for the presentation.

[@Brian4563bt]

I watched this twice, and I finally understand the best method to size my cast bullets for revolvers. Thanks FC!

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Brian4563bt - Thanks for taking the time to post comment. Here we are in the year 2016, and there is still huge misunderstanding on this - I've read stuff from some very well known writers telling us all manner of stuff. And other shooters have come to accept the "drop your cast bullets through your cylinders, and if they don't drop through - ream the cylinder" or the old "slug your revolver barrel so you'll know what size cast bullets to use". Problem is that there are all kinds of measurements out there, but the principle of obturation and properly set up revolvers is still the same. That's what must be understood. Some of the weirdest revolver setups still shoot well with jacketed bullets clouding the understanding. Best to ya, FC

[@walterpalmer2749]

Well, somehow I’ve missed this video, but it’s never too late to say it’s a good one. Thanks F.C.

[@Tdream8]

Thanks for this video and the others such as the 45 Colt and Ruger 357/9MM conversion discussion around this whole topic of obturation, cylinder chamber throat size, and barrel groves among other things. This helps with some of the discussion around the 45 cylinder chamber throat sizing issues for some 45 colt Ruger Blackhawks as I am contemplating getting a Blackhawk Bisley in 45 colt.

[@gk.spinoza]

Thankyou very much Mr fortunecookie45LC!!! You are very good at explaining all these firearms related subjects! Over the past year I have bought myself a few pre-1898 rimfire revolvers that I am hand reloading customized rimfire cartridges to shoot with them, and videos such as this one have been quite helpful in increasing my understanding of how to make them function properly.

[@danbraun3780]

I think I got it figured out. Obturation just means sealing. Cases expand to seal the chamber and bullets compress to fill the cylinder throat and barrel. Both of these processes are obturation.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Dan Braun - That's the whole kit and kaboodle in a nutshell... Have a great day, FC

[@oldscout7]

GREAT, GREAT, GREAT video and information! Thanks, again!!!

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

oldscout7 Your comments are much appreciated...Best Regards

[@charlesfrazier2908]

Thanks. Lots of good information. I'll have to watch this one again.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Charles Frazier I took a chance on this being a long video - hard to shorten this one...Have a great day

[@charlesfrazier2908]

Some topics take longer to explain.

[@FatManLeather]

This is some great information, gives me a few things to look at. Bullet science, gotta love it.

[@mr.zafner8295]

You know, I wasn't going to click on this when it came up in my feed. I mean I know how guns work. But then I saw it was this guy, and I was like well, I bet he says something worth hearing.

[@dowdawg9165]

That was one great video Mr. Cookie!!! Thank you for taking time to explain the correct functions of handguns!!! Keep the knowledge flowing there are so many who need instruction!!

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

dowdawg The term obturation systems applied to handguns is not widely distributed. Have a great day

[@freedomle4022]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Using it now, after learning the hard way.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Freedom Le - We’ve all had occasion to learn the hard way. Even when we hear new stuff that makes sense along with all the other stuff we get, we need to validate for ourselves until we can accept the information. And that is a good way to be - scientists often repeat experiments to settle for themselves what is reliable. Best to ya, FC Steve

[@JohnSmith-kg5dv]

Fantastic explanation and hopefully it will cut down on all the false information floating around the firearm community. You my friend are excellent at what you do. Thanks you so very much. Best regards,John

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

John Smith - Funny, I posted reply, but it's gone...so I'm reposting -- Appreciate your kind words, John. Revolvers are quirky indeed. My Virginian Dragoon has monstrous .436" cylinder throats and shoots regular .430" cast bullet horribly. But it shoots .429" jacketed bullets well. This would cause a shooter to conclude that big throats and drop through bullets would be the way to go. But .429" cylinder throats would result in .430 cast bullets shooting clean and well along with those .429" jacketed. My M29 S & W has .432" cylinder throats and the gas blow by fouls the forcing cone after a dozen shots that impedes the cylinder rotation. Yet it shoots jacketed 240 grain 429s to ring the foot diameter gong at 250 yards 5 out of 6 shots regularly. Good shootin' to ya, John... FC Steve

[@bananastickman2]

Great informative video. Ive been shooting for years and ya learn something everyday.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

FreedomPrepper Appreciate your comments - Best Regards to you

[@CharlesMartellus]

Another great video from the Hot Lead Zone! Thanks for putting this together.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Charles Martellus Thanks for your comments, Charles... You have a great day

[@goldwingnut1954]

You are a natural born teacher anyway, but T H I S !! is good stuff. As much as I cast and reload, your explanation was still a revelation. I wish I'd seen this a long time ago. Thank you for posting it!

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

goldwingnut1954 Very gracious comment, and it is much appreciated - Have a great day

[@terrysmith3051]

good job. good info.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Terry Smith Thanks to Terry Smith for the good word...Good day to you, sir!!

[@warpigsbustedknucklegarage3683]

Again an informative video FC. I had no idea there was that much difference. I don't cast so its always been buy the box of 500 that says .44 and off to the bench.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Jeff Thomas Thanks for commenting - Yes, that's what we do - buy the correct ammunition and trust the factory does well by us...In the past, revolvers were all over the place. Some had undersized chamber throats smaller than the barrel diameter (that is extremely horrible setup). That's when you heard of shooters solving the problem by reaming open their chamber throats - the danger is some shooters who do not have undersized chamber throats thinking that is a the way to improve accuracy. If they measure first and know the revolver system, they won't do that unless it is called for. Then you have oversized chamber throats (disaster). Not discussed was the importance of lockup, timing, and presence of any barrel constrictions affects on accuracy. Have a great day

[@steveshooter9010]

I appreciate your videos and the wonderful sharing of knowledge! Thanks!

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Steve Shooter - Thanks for taking the time to post comment...we've seen barrels groove diameters to be very close to the chamber throats as well as smaller. But if the barrel groove diameters are bigger than the chamber throats, that revolver is badly set up. Also, the practice of enlarging our chamber throats so bullets drop through easily usually yield horrible shooting with cast bullets...but jacketed bullets can shoot in those well. Cast bullet shooters would do well to have the bullets .001" bigger than groove diameter on autopistols and rifles and .001-.002" bigger than chamber throats on revolvers...Good shootin' to ya, FC

[@e.kent.d9561]

Very interesting and well explained. The picture is a work of art too.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

E.Kent.D Thanks for taking the time to comment ... much appreciated. Have a great day

[@bfritz5792]

Well done FortuneCookie thank you for the great information

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

bfritz5792 Your comments are greatly appreciated. Have a great day

[@nickl1682]

Cookie Wow . Just pull the trigger . I'll never just think of this as a normal operation . Wouldn't it be nice to see this in slow motion. You bring a totally different look into the operation of the fire arm . Thanks

[@captainpegs0740]

I wish I knew this 20 years ago! Thanks, FC!

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Captainpegs07 - Sorry for the lateness of this reply, but Google did not post your comment in my inbox for me to see...Thaks for your comments... FC

[@ambismagee3207]

Great vid!

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Ambis Magee Thanks for your comment, and have a great day!!

[@pr4runner]

Very informative and well presented. Thank you for making this detailed video.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

pr4runner Appreciate you taking the time to post...always good to hear from pr4runner..!!

[@1717jbs]

Outstanding! Enjoyed this immensly. Thanks.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

1717jbs And Best Regards to 1717jbs!!

[@danoneill2846]

Thanks !

[@dhlwood]

Love your videos.I have a Taurus 44m 4 inch and have been reloading 240 grain lswc sized to .429 I load mag and special velocities.My loads a shoot well i get about 1 1/4 groups at 25 yards.I just purchased some acme powder coated that say .430 and was wondering if that might improve the accuracy or so i need to resize them to .429 i will have to buy sizing dies.What do you think.THANKS DAVID

[@jim88252]

One thing is for sure this aint your first rodeo. Thanks for the great video!

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Jim White Appreciate you taking the time to comment...Best :Regards to you

[@ecleveland1]

Great video, full of very useful information. I think we need to start referring to as you Professor FortuneCookie45LC.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

ecleveland1 That's very kind of you, but there is much great information out there on KZbin to call anyone a professor. It's kind of nasty for all us shooters out there to know that our 38s are really 36s and turn out to be 34s - just nasty!! But we aren't going to let that get us down, are we? We are going to enjoy them just the way they are....(still nasty though!)

[@ieatkittenswspicymustard5089]

Good video. Makes me understand how Desert Eagles are available that shoot 44 mag and 41 mag.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Ieatkittenswspicy Mustard The thing about auto pistols is the bullets emerge at full caliber - advantage when shooting Bullseye competition where cutting a line gets you an extra point - the 45ACP rules in Bullseye competition - you heard it here first...Best Regards

[@ardmoremooney4222]

I just took the cylinder out of my Ruger single 10 and put a 22 lr in backwards. It went in all the way no problem. I also put it in both ends of the barrel which seemed fine.

[@mannys9130]

You probably have a combo of oversized cylinder throats and undersized ammo. .22 LR ammo is made in bulk. It's quick and dirty, unless you pay for premium match ammo. Lots of variation exists with rimfire throats and bores, and it actually pays to do some measuring. FC has a video about slugging a .22LR bore or cylinder to determine the diameter of it. Your next step would be to measure several brands of .22LR cartridges to find a projectile that's properly sized to shoot well out of your gun. Since .22LR is a heeled bullet design, it's very easy to measure their diameter. You just put a caliper/micrometer on the flat bearing surface which is just above the case crimp. No bullet pulling required. :) Most people of course, don't really care this much. They buy cheap bulk, plink, and then just deal with any leading that is left afterward (unless it's just ridiculous, which causes them to just switch brands).

[@toycollector2611]

Can you please expand on the power factor and recoil spring relationship you mention in the first couple of minutes.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

toy collector - When we were making major power in our 45 ACP 1911s, we had to switch out the factory recoil spring to the 18.5 pound springs. That allowed me to run 4.8 - 5 grains of BE powder with the 200 grain H & G cast SWC. Plus installation of recoil buffers to cushion the bashing in the slide cycles. Our 1911s ran fine and durable. Good shootin' to ya, FC Steve

[@toycollector2611]

Thanks FC!

[@mytmousemalibu]

Another critical fit issue on a cap n' ball is that exact snug fit you get and want when you seat that ball and it shaves a ring of lead off, that tight seal is protection against a dangerous chain-fire! Its a good idea to put a smear of lube/tallow over the loaded chambers. Extra insurance from a chain-fire and the lube gets blown down the bore keeping you fouling soft. BTW, Excellent video Fortune Cookie!

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

mytmousemalibu Thanks for filling the omissions with your comment. I remember seeing in the movie Gettysburg, Colonel Chamberlain at the Little Round Top defending the Union flank with his 1860 Colt - and when he was firing it, you could clearly see the whitish plug of animal fat lube smeared into his chamber throats - That lube hid the specter of the deadly lead 44 cal ball hiding therein...750,000 fatalities in the Civil War - chilling... Best to ya

[@453421abcdefg12345]

mytmousemalibu, Please be aware that chainfire is caused by flashover at the nipple end of the cylinder, unless the ball is so loosely fitted it has gaps around it, or the cylinder mouth is badly pitted (as a lot of originals are ),if you have a ring of lead on loading the charge will only ignite by loose fitting caps, some designs even have a substantial "fence" between nipples to prevent this, but on firing, badly fitting caps often move back off the nipple and expose you to the dreaded chainfire. Take care!

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Englishman French Thanks for chiming in with this information....good for all black powder shooters to consider....Have a great day

[@walterpalmer2749]

F.C., your guns are in immaculate condition cleaned with a caring hand. Nice to see. If they’re potential life savers in defense of family, you’d better take care of them for that, hopefully never, time of need.

[@cal30m1]

How much efficiency is lost with the blast that occurs around the cylinder/barrel gap? What would be an exact comparison of muzzle velocity comparing say a 45acp fired from a revolver compared to firing from a 1911? I don’t mean exact same barrel length cause a 5” 45acp revolver travels farther than a 5” m1911 in total travel before it leaves the barrel. The revolver has the travel in the cylinder before entrance into the barrel, giving it just a little bit of a head start. I do not have two pistols of the same cartridge with the same overall travel, but perhaps a 45acp Commander and a M1917 revolver with a 5” barrel would be a fair test?

[@HammeringHank100]

Hi Steve, I have to say, "This is the best video you have made." Please make a video showing how to cast a bullet for a barrel that is larger then the cylinder. If that is possible. Hank

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

HammeringHank100 That is the most terrible setup there is...The only answer to that is to ream out the chamber throats to get the proper setup - but that might put the bullets out of any reasonable range. Best solution is to send the gun back to the factory reporting the horrible barrel cylinder setup - they will know what to do - namely change out the barrel, ream the throats or combo of both...Have a great day to the HammeringHank100!! Thanks for the comment...

[@davidtaylor5007]

Just curious on your thoughts of 44 Special in a .44 Mag. 1/8" difference in case length and I'd think as soon as the bullet releases from the crimp it'd be in the throat of the cylinder and very little gasses could make it around the bullet in that short hop. I wonder what the differences in velocity and accuracy might be between identical loads with Magnum brass vs. Special brass might be? Everything the same but lead vs. jacketed might make for a good Part 2. I enjoy your videos.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

David Taylor This has always been a point of contention - to say that the "jump" causes less accuracy sounds good but doesn't always pan out. There are some guns that shoot lights out and have a long "jump" (like Colt Pythons with 38 special ammo, or my Davis Custom with 38 ammo). And others with minimal jump that are not accurate - this video points out a lot of factors that explain that. Well set up revolvers are like fine musical instruments. And the factor that is in favor of the 38 Spl or 44 Spl in longer chamber guns is the better filling of the powder space allows consistent burn, whereas a case not filled well with powder causes inconsistent burn from powder positioning. Much more standard of deviation errors than from bullet "jump". That this contention is still going on without settlement shows the tremendous variance amongst loads and guns and powders that make final conclusions difficult to compile. If I did a little study, between magnum and special brass vs bullets, the results would be interesting but not even close to being conclusive... Best Regards to ya

[@85waspnest]

Excellent !!!

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

85waspnest :)

[@85waspnest]

FortuneCookie45LC Request - I'd like to see you make a video about reloading and shooting .357 Magnum using Hodgdons 777 BP substitute, preferably using a lever action.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

85waspnest Triple 7 is some fine powder for use in modern muzzleloaders especially the pellets...If I was going to load bp, I'd use the real stuff or Pyrodex. I know some shooters who load bp cartridges for 45 Colt, but not 357. I've been tempted, but over the last 44 years, I have never personally used any black powder. Fun to watch at the range, though - even when grass fires start in front of the shooting stations!! I don't want to deal with black powder with the clean up and the brass cases being attacked by the residues...I'd rather shoot a lot of rounds and have a gun with a lot of excessive fouling...Sorry - still no black powder for me until further notice... Best Regards

[@85waspnest]

FortuneCookie45LC Fair comment :-) I've heard of a few shooters using 20 grains (by volume) of 777 FFG in 357 rather than BP & Pyrodex due to 1/ A little more umph, 2/ Easier gun & brass clean up with water only 3/ Less fouling & corrosion due to it being sulphur free. Hodgdons recommend FFG (not FFFG) in cartridges, no air space, no more than 1/10 inch compression, or none at all. Cast bullets need wider or deeper lube grooves than smokeless ones to accommodate a suitable BP lube such as a 50/50 mixture of beeswax & lamb tallow to keep the fouling soft. Maybe one day you'll try it out for fun :-).

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

85waspnest I just got a bad thought, an a video on this might even be appropriate - suppose instead of the powder shortages getting better, they get worse!! If bp, Pyrodex or Triple 7 was all we could get - maybe I better put away some Triple 7 just in case...right now, bp is fairly available....Have a great day

[@barchetta7559]

didn't s&w model 25 in 45 colt have this problem?

[@mikemull1478]

Hy, M1955. Do you think they knew this information when that pistol was made?

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

mike mull If you are talking about the S&W 1955 Target revolver (a real classic), yes, that information was known. Problem is that back in the earlier days of single action revolvers, chamber throats and barrel diameters were all over the place. Some old SAAs had chamber throats on the huge side and standard bullets were too small. But the fouling and leading were massive with black powder anyway so no one could tell. Once smokeless came along, the need to efficiently use the new more powerful propellants brought on understanding...that was back in 1898 or so... Any revolver since then that wasn't properly set up was the fault of factory quality controls...And autoloading pistols were easy, but there were some occasional bad barrels or autoloader chambers also... Best Regards to ya.

[@CarlDWardJr]

Thank you never knew this.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Carl D Ward Jr It's funny - properly set up revolvers all obturate the same way ever since smokeless powder came along. It did not have to be a mystery...Best Regards to you

[@livincincy4498]

Great detail here to digest. I am guessing 'better' and also newer revolvers have a taper from the front of the case to the end of the barrel. I am curious where the bullet is when it impacts the forcing cone. Is the bullet still in the case and the gasses sealed ? It seems the Bullet Makers focus on the diameter of the bore at the forcing cone per SAAMI and the Revolver Makers size the cylinder the to match SAAMI cylinder dimension. So they make bullets that drop thru the cylinder and be with in SAAMI specification. (Reference SAAMI 45 Colt below, & thanks to Loads Of Bacon for his new 45 Colt ) www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/205.pdf

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

LIVIN CINCY - Actually, one of the things that I really like about Matt's Bullets is that he offers bullets in different sizes...like the 38s are .359" so they will obturate the cylinder throats that are .3575 - 358" the way we want...we really don't want bullets that dropo through the cylinder throats as that means gas will be blowing by the bullet until it hits the forcing cone ans swages into the barrel groove diameter. Until then, leading is happening in the barrel from the gas cutting. If the bullet is .001" bigger than the throats, the bullet seals the cylinder immediately and keeps sealing as the bullet hits the forcing cone while the back of the bullet is still sealing in the cylinder throat...That way obturation is assured all the way to the muzzle. Colt Pythons actually had the bore tapering down by .001" at the muzzle for increased performance. The best revolver set ups get gradually smaller as you move from the cylinder throat to forcing cone to barrel. Big jumps smaller are not invited. Jumps to bigger are definitely not invited. Have a great day, FC

[@livincincy4498]

Matt's is unique in their 38 caliber selections. His other caliber selections seem to follow 'tradition' and not be upsized. Now I have to buy some 38's from Matt's so curiosity does not kill the cat... I also need to get a cat. I still can't figure out how you do the magic trick where you fire a 44 Magnum bullet out of your cylinder and a 41 Magnum bullet flies out the end... If Dirty Harry had tried to explain this the movie would have been extended by 24:57 each time he shot somebody...

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

LIVIN CINCY - It's all in the way a revolver is set up...Principle is to maintain obturation and revolvers are unique. The keys are 1) Cylinder throats - ideally should be .001" under ideal bullet size - so 38 cal bullet ideal is .358 so cylinder throats should be .357 - .3575" 2) Forcing cone - flash gap of .003-.005" and 11 degree cone 3) barrel groove diameter slightly smaller than cylinder throats so .356 - 3565. And other calibers accordingly. My Ruger SRH has barrel groove diameter smaller than it needs to be hence the .414" groove diameter and, as you say, 41 cal bullets being fired. That is the way it is with my gun anyway.... Best to ya, FC

[@livincincy4498]

I have written to Berrys & Xtreme asking about how they came up with 0.357 as their plated bullet diameter for 38/357. SAAMI has 0.359-0030 for cast lead and 0.358-0030 for Jacketed bullets with a cylinder throat of 0.358 going into a 0.355 groove diameter. I also asked Ruger about the throat diameter on my LCR. Berry's & Xtreme's plop thru with nothing stopping them. I realize they are plated and not an FMJ bullet design. But they are just grabbing one side of the cylinder throat and driving into the forcing cone and then trying to align with the barrel center. There must be a reason why they both do this. I may have connected something between my day job and shooting. That 11 degree value used on the forcing cone and on the crown of the barrel is the same value for how a plume of air moves into a room. I am guessing that this is not just a coincidence. The bullet is moving air out of its way... at the natural angle air likes to move. Keep up the good work !

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

LIVIN CINCY - The information you have discovered is the perfect setup for 357/38 revolver. It's kind of like the headspace in our rifles needing ammo to have headspace in concordance. Cylinder throat / forcing cone / groove diameter should have the relationship as outlined. But the bullets need to be properly sized to best merge into that setup. We still hear of recommendations to slug the revolver barrel and then use bullets .001" bigger than groove diameter. If I adhered to that, I'd be looking for .415" bullets for my 44 Mag Ruger Super Red Hawk - absurd. A lot of today's revolvers have big cylinder throats as they are set up for shooting jacketed bullets. This is a bit of a travesty as gun makers know that bullet manufacturers have pretty much standardized on sizes for caliber. If they simply made the cylinder throats the same diameter as jacketed bullets (say .357" for 357/38) and the barrel groove diameters at .355-356", they would have the perfect balance for jacketed and cast bullets also. Our cast bullets do not like overly large cylinder throats. And thanks for digging up that info on that perfect 11 degrees cone angle. Everything I've come across repeatedly mentions 11 degrees being perfect, but never why...Now we have a good why. Best to ya, Carlos FC

[@453421abcdefg12345]

That the obteration of the bullet is important can be seen by looking at early cartridge ammunition, the Colt 45 had a hollow base bullet for this very reason, on ignition, the base of the bullet "bumped up" to fit the chamber cylinder size, so they knew what was required to achieve results. One problem with measuring a lead slug can be in the number of grooves in the barrel, if the number of grooves is even you can measure it this way, but if you have an uneven number of grooves you will need a three anvil micrometer. Interestingly the when loading the percussion type pistol shaves lead from the bullet, this seals the chamber completely, , but the rear of the cylinder with the caps on, will allow flash over and a chainfire, with a clean unpitted cylinder I have never known of a chainfire caused by flashover from the front of the cylinder, this is proven by shooting a pepperbox type pistol, which often chainfires, even though the balls are 4" down the barrels, it flashes over at the nipples, as can be seen in slow motion film.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Englishman French Chain fire from the caps - very interesting - Now that's the kind of information that FC45LC likes - good handy stuff that is not often presented and distributed... Sounds like you should put out a video on this one - Thanks for commenting, Have a great day

[@mannys9130]

Yes, chainfires will make you shit your pants. Tight fitting caps, high quality nipples, and either a good fitting wad or a nice plug of BP lube smeared on top of the bullet are critical for preventing chainfires from both ends. You're absolutely correct.

[@danbraun3780]

I'm a little confused. You have another video that describes case obturation or expansion to fill the chamber. Now this video describes how the bullet is swaged (compressed) to pass through the chamber and then the barrel... but you're calling this obturation also.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Dan Braun - It is confusing, but simple also. Obturation means sealing a hole or a tube. Something needs to expand to fill out the hole or tube = obturation. In rifles and auto pistols, it's easy - the chamber is sealed by the brass casing (that was the big breakthrough in breech loaders in the first place), then the bullet is .001" bigger than the barrel groove diameter so it seals as soon as it enters the rifling...and stays sealed all the way down the barrel. With revolvers moving chambers into line with the barrel, it's a whole different animal. 1) expanding case seals chamber on firing 2) expanding case releases the bullet 3) gases blow around the bullet until the bullet, if .001" bigger than the cylinder throat, seals the cylinder throat 4) Bullet squeezes down .001" as it exits the cylinder throat maintaining obturation and hits the forcing cone while the back end of the bullet is still sealing the cylinder throat 5) forcing cone swages bullet down to enter the rifling of barrel 6) bullet swages down to fill the groove diameter starting the obturation there before obturation is lost from the bullet totally exiting the cylinder. So you see, in revolvers, there is an obturation chain that is maintained because of the way the revolver is set up. And if set up badly, the chain is broken and leading and poor accuracy can result. Best Regards to ya, FC

[@kep67]

why is it called a .44?

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

kep67 - The gun is chambered for the 44 Rem Magnum cartridge. The 44 is actually from the old .44 heeled bullets of the 44 American cartridge (the bullet was the same diameter as the outside casing) of black powder yore. When Russia came to buy guns, they wanted an inside lubricated bullet so the bullet that wound up inside the 44 case measured .429", not 44 cal = became the 44 Russian. And that led to the 44 Special at the turn of the twentieth century. Then came the longer 44 Mag round in 1955. Sounded much better to say 44 than say 43. Best to ya, FC Steve

[@prebaned]

Agree with everything but your slugging. On the Ruger 44 you measured the lands diameter of the bullet. Of course it's smaller than a bullet because it's the barrels bore diameter what you measured on the slug. You must measure the high spots on the slug which is the barrels grove diameter. It will be what matters and around .429. .414 is the bore diameter of the barrel, not the groove diameter. You measured the slug correctly on the police positive.

[@redsunrrr5208]

great catch,.. it didn't make a lot of sense otherwise

[@peteralexben]

next step for target shooting is , only neck sizing , using the uniform made case once fired in te same revolver. yours peter

[@peteralexben]

FortuneCookie45LC not necessary if the chambers are correct of size .and smooth move the gun ,you feel te rattle of the fully sized cartidge~s in the chambers/cilinder ,this is the proof that de bullets are not in line with the barrel and chamberthroat`s,and with necksizing only they line up. ik do like the way and craftmanship of the you tube movies jou make. yours peter

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

peteralexben I don't recall a lot of work being done on just neck sizing handgun brass - You are onto something here - we can certainly set our sizing dies to neck size to the bullet base only. Why not? Makes a lot of sense. And the rounds did eject in the first place, fireformed cases. But if our chambers are not identical - then problems. I fear most of our chambers are not identical enough - reason we full length size our ammo - to make up for the variance. Easy enough to test, just put fired cases back into the cylinders, if they all feed OK, then neck size ahoy!! I'm going to do a search on neck size handgun reloading...Have a great day...

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

peteralexben Just as I thought - nothing on neck sizing our handgun brass. You are on fresh ground with this...you should do a video... Have a great day

[@peteralexben]

FortuneCookie45LC thx for the answer.

[@brighter22]

now I need to wiki obterate.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

bnighter No need - it just means to seal off. Like the job of the fullback on play Tray left Gap 2, is to fake right and then go left and seal off the right outside linebacker so the running back can break into the secondary... ;) Have a great day

[@farmerdude3578]

Almost all 38/357 revolvers I have owned and own have a throat diameter of 358 or bigger. So why in the world do makers of plated bullets like Berry’s and xtream use 357 die bullets? They shoot terrible? But there 9mm bullets are 356. That’s .001 over the barrel die. They shoot great. I don’t get that.

[@GunFunZS]

I like to shoot at steel, which tends to obturate a .356 bullet to ~0.7"

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

GunFun ZS Ha, ha, ha - GunFun ZS strikes again..!!