How can DIRECTORS be clueless about THEIR OWN movies sound?!!

[@TDC5]

it feels like we're at that point where music releases should do what movies do and say "based on a true voice"

[@yankees4551]

I'm weeping for this movie. I autotuned my weeping to make it acceptable....

[@noneoyfb3569]

😂

[@JR-tr1df]

🤣

[@nostromo7928]

Nice! 😂

[@e.kjaergaard9435]

I have pitch corrected mine 😭

[@loqueestamal3465]

I wrote this reply but then I didn't like how it sounded so I autotuned it.

[@chrissymoss514]

We don't want/need plastic, inorganic, "perfect" vocals. We desperately WANT/NEED true emotional, goosebump causing, genuine vocals. Another "eye-opening" video. Thank you Fil 😊 ❤❤❤❤❤

[@elizabethmiller7291]

Indeed!

[@richarddoan9172]

Or plastic, inorganic, "perfect" faces.

[@endlessstudent3512]

Well, considering how people are going through the roof in the videos about wicked and how they bawled their eyes out and how hauting and touching the singing is, I would say, it seems the correction does not keep people from loving it.

[@fleshtonegolem]

When people can't hear pitch correction, I often remind myself of how I couldn't hear compression before I used compressors in mixing. Once you use the tools you can NEVER unhear the artifacts it introduces. Pitch correcting Harmonies is so common and SO OBVIOUS.

[@digital0785]

while yes i agree you can hear compression it's SIGNIFICANTLY less jarring then hard corrections maybe it's just me like i can tell compression is happening just like i can always tell when ADR is done in movies .. but it doesn't make me go YIKES unless it's terribly bad any pitch correction where they dont adjust the humanize slider up in melodyne are straight painful to me. you dont need it to be 100% corrected you can move the pitch but leave the voicing but that not what they're doing. heck nudging it so one of the harmonies are pushed sharp or flat but still CLOSE will make it sound better then -------------------------------------------------------- there is so much in pitch correction software they're obviously not making use of .. because it's obvious it's not auto tune so it's just lazy because a TINY bit more work makes it sound substantially better dissonance adds emotional tension use it to your advantage

[@ScottResnickMD]

That's such a good point.

[@jjakes5589]

Why do so many songs have compression during mixing?

[@ilangayouthdanceco.3621]

It is horrible! It is freaky, I was going to watch the movie. I think I just changed my mind.

[@marcwilliams9824]

​@@jjakes5589Compression is used because it's difficult to sing/play certain instruments at exactly the same volume throughout a song. Compression makes the naturally recorded but much quieter bits louder and the much louder bits quieter.

[@chaos.corner]

"Ariana has a fantastic voice" "Yeah, but I've got a computer"

[@Caity438]

The worst of this to me is that I can hear the pitch correction clicking on every time the 2 singers harmonise. But the engineers have slapped the pitches on to equal temperament, which sounds OUT OF TUNE compared to talented natural singers harmonising according to the actual frequencies and relative harmonics in their voices. Equal temperament is a sort of compromise solution to the problem of Western scales that sound best when the notes are in slightly different positions depending on what key you are in. The beauty of singers and other instruments without fixed pitch is that they AREN'T restricted by that and it is one of the reasons a capella singing gives you goosebumps. What the Wicked sound team has done is pull the singers from being ACTUALLY in tune with each other, (and that is not just musically but emotionally really important in the context of a musical about their relationship!!) and instead made them sound like a keyboard set to "female voice".

[@rickyhils]

Exactly. Equal temperament has major thirds sounding a bit sharp (out of tune) and minor thirds a bit flat (also out of tune). Good singers would not sing like that.

[@magnoliaskogen]

Thank you!!! It's so sad we don't get to hear the actual harmonies. Ariana and Cynthia have talked so much in interviews about the magic of their blended voices and how they are able to deeply listen to each other while singing which is what makes the harmony so magical, and then the producers completely stripped that magic out. It's depressing

[@alemobra5747]

how would they pitch correct 2 singers at a time tho? i dont know any person who would use polyphonic pitch correction on a track cuz it sounds horrible...

[@Caity438]

@alemobra5747 I don't know the technical stuff but you can hear the artificiality in the video and see the result. I assume they just have the singers on separate tracks and pitch correction them then put them together, similar to "a capella" groups that Fil has covered in the past. Edit to say it does sound horrible...

[@cindi1313]

The live vocal at 14:00 and then the before and after pitch correction of them singing together was one of the most dramatic demonstrations of what you lose with pitch correction for me. They are both fabulous singers and sounded great together. The pitch corrected version sounds so much thinner, it's like there is almost nothing there. It just seems so obviously worse to me, I can't imagine why they would do it.

[@victoria2944]

The final track was obviously edited, you can hear it at times. It’s such a shame because both artists have amazing voices and they didn’t need to be corrected.

[@katiemcteague]

Agreed. Both of those artists are so talented that to alter their performance is a crime. Especially if it's done without their knowledge or permission.

[@eb1900]

The entire movie honestly it was so distracting, so digital, so robotic sounding. So perplexing because these women really obviously don’t need it whatsoever

[@KamiFoxMusic]

People are too used to these pitch corrections that I think they well struggle to listen to songs that’s don’t have it unless you listen to live performances where you can see the difference

[@Attmay]

This is why I despise this process. It drags good singers down to the level of bad ones.

[@alemobra5747]

there were some spots where they didnt pitch correct them, especially when they sang together in defying gravity, there was a bit of dissonance between them, naturally, and people attacked them online for sounding "bad"

[@ExitSiign]

Oof thanks for validating my feelings. The people I saw the movie with couldn't understand why I was frustrated. Their voices sound sooo good in background of the trailer compared to the edited version/movie release.

[@Dr.Dawson]

Not clueless, they just think we are all morons.

[@crunchyfrog63]

So, right after I watched this video, an ad came on for a movie coming out about Bob Dylan. In addition to Bob, they've got someone playing Johnny Cash and Joan Baez. The ad was going on and on about how all the musical performances were live, using the technology of the time, and totally authentic. All I could think, watching this, was "I bet it was pitch corrected." Looking forward to Fil's analysis of that.

[@RealGriz]

Until and unless artists refuse to allow this to happen to their performances and/or audiences refuse to listen to these performances and/or laws are passed to ensure that we are notified that what we will hear is not a true live performance, nothing will change.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

And, I think people just need to hear the argument, over and over again, what it is that they are missing out on, what they are being deprived of, what they are not being allowed to hear. Even if they see the performance - Wicked, in this case - and they feel like it sounded great they need to be made to realize that as good as it may have sounded to them, the unedited voices of great singers would have sounded much, much better! How do we drill this into peoples' heads? I don't know. Fil is certainly doing his part and when he announces the details of his side project next year, then we will all have our work cut out for us! :)

[@just_passing_through]

I’m absolutely sure that both of them were singing, live on set… Because that’s the best way to look as though you are singing live. That does not mean that the singing that was done live on set is the same vocal that ended up on the soundtrack, or in the movie theatre. They are basically lip syncing, but the vocalising while they’re doing it, but they went into the studio and record the songs before they went on, sent to mine to they pre-recorded vocals. Having said that, there’s no way to record a top quality vocal performance on a sound stage. The vocals are always recorded in a sound studio, and overdubbed onto the video footage. Virtually nothing new here. Dialogue wise in a movie is recorded on set. There are problems with microphone placement and acoustics and background noise. Almost everything is over dubbed, including the dialogue, so I can imagine how hard it is to actually record singing on set. It just doesn’t happen.

[@greywaren621]

This.

[@slchld.]

They did live takes but ultimately things will get edited and there’ll be parts where they’re lip syncing due to movement and etc

[@fromchomleystreet]

I have no doubt that they’re telling the truth about that bit - that some of the raw vocal tracks that were later digitally pitch corrected, particularly on the more intimate, emotional solos and duets, were recorded on set. There’s no fundamental difference between capturing a high-fidelity recording of spoken dialogue and capturing a high-fidelity recording of singing. Where you can do one, you can do the other. And if you can do both in the same place, at the same time, with the same microphone, the transition between one and the other is going to sound considerably more natural and less jarring than it does in most musicals. Lip-syncing to pre-recorded tracks was the traditional way to shoot movie musicals, because, despite the fact that it’s never going to be 100% convincing, it’s a much easier and more efficient way to churn out a musical. It also wasn’t possible to do it any other way before the advent of wireless in-ear monitors, because you need a clean track with JUST the vocal on it, but the singer needs to hear the accompaniment. With modern technology it IS possible, and offers the advantage that the actor isn’t restricted by having to slavishly match their on-set performance to a vocal recording they made months ago, before they’d had the opportunity to understand the character’s emotional situation as deeply as they typically do by the time they get around to actually shooting the scene the song is in. It also avoids that tell-tale “switch”, between the sound of a vocal recorded in the space we’re looking at and one recorded in a sound-proofed vocal booth, that you always get in classic musicals every time the character moves from speaking dialogue to singing. At least in theory, it offers the opportunity to capture a much fresher, more “authentic” and more emotionally engaged performance. Lip-syncing is also really hard to pull off convincingly, especially when you’re in an unforgiving closeup and the vocal performance you previously recorded has any degree of rubato in it. Certain recent musicals have made a point of doing it this way, in particular the recent “Les Miserable” movie with Hugh Jackman, where some poor guy had to sit in an adjacent room and play piano every time they did a take, which the actor alone could hear on set. It wasn’t a prerecorded backing track so that the actor had the freedom to play with the tempo, and the pianist followed their lead. Then an orchestra conductor at a later date had the task of matching an orchestra’s timing to the piano and voice. A lot of complications, but at the end of the day you get a performance that would simply be impossible doing it the old way because it would require lip-syncing precision of a super-human level. Of course, the fact that they record the raw vocal “live” on set does not mean they don’t avail themselves of every production trick in the book once that vocal gets put into a sound engineer’s DAW, including pitch-correcting it up the wazoo. The existence of these tools is another thing that makes “live” recording in movie musicals more feasible than it was. Where once a producer would get a “perfect” recording in a studio and then the actor didn’t have to worry about hitting notes accurately while also focusing on acting, dancing, and hitting their mark, now they have the opportunity to construct the “perfect” take retrospectively, meaning the actor STILL doesn’t have to worry too much about hitting notes accurately while they are also focusing on those other things, because they know it can all be “fixed” later.

[@L1623VP]

"Having said that, there’s no way to record a top quality vocal performance on a sound stage. The vocals are always recorded in a sound studio, and overdubbed onto the video footage." No so. I've seen many movie musicals over decades, and they all have that same artificial quality where the voice doesn't seem fully embodied by the actor/singer precisely because they're not singing with live-full voice at the time of filming...except for the film of Les Miserables about ten years ago. The director made the choice to have all his actors give a live, full-voice performance during the actual filming, and that's the performance that's heard in the final film. That's the only musical film I've ever seen where the singing feels true and authentic because it is. It's a very different experience that adds so much more emotion to the film. It's why Anne Hathaway's I Dreamed a Dream was so gripping because she's really singing live during the filming, unlike the cast of Wicked and all other musicals on film. I don't even like Les Miserables, and I was moved by the musical performances, particularly most of the solos, because the vocals were truly live on film which gives such a different experience. You can hear the difference, so it is certainly possible to record actors signing live on a sound stage for the finished film. All the Les Miserables actors talked about singing live on the set and how they each had hidden ear pieces through which they were hearing a pianist play the accompaniment to which they sang. It was the full orchestra that was added later to the soundtrack, but NOT the voices. The voices you hear in the film are the exact performances the actors gave during filming. It's the only time that's ever been done in a movie musical, and the effect was powerful. The director said from the beginning that he wanted full-voice, live, on-film vocal performances and it was a fantastic decision.

[@KAZAM707]

Please do some more research on this. They painstakingly recorded live vocals on set where feasible (and sometimes not) going to extreme lengths. That said, you are correct that the end result was an amalgamation of pre records, live on set vocals, and ADR sessions all edited. You can hear the vocals are not "top quality." They also recorded in studio with a regular condenser mic AND lav mics positioned based on costumes for each song so that when they use studio takes, it would sound more seamless.

[@agorgedslug]

There's a reason why virtual instruments had to incorporate a feature called 'round robin'. It means that a repeated note has several different versions that when players on the same instrument play unison notes they don't buzz together and create identical harmonics that grate on each other horribly. When two singers are identically 'calibrated' the exact same unattractive voice buzzing/clashing happens. The variations in pitch between the singers is what (would have) made them sound extraordinary. What a ridiculous shame.

[@geminijinxies7258]

Yeah! I totally hear the shrill MIDI SoundFont problem but with singing voices.

[@ChanahAngelicaKamen]

That is so brilliant to know, I've always wondered what the purpose of the round robin was. The one issue I have with some virtual instruments however is that there's often a wild different in the velocity of a note when an instrument has a round robin. It can be a drag to have to go in and manually bring down the velocity on the notes that unfortunately stick out badly. But absolutely makes sense what the feature is there for.

[@StratsRUs]

I've only seen Round Robin in older Samplers

[@alemobra5747]

why did they sound pitchy in 15:28 if they were autotuned? how would they even autotune them together?

[@Caity438]

​@alemobra5747 they sound pitchy because of the effect I was mentioning in my comment which you r3plied to where equal temperament tends to sound out of tune when applied to voices because singers harmonizing will naturally use just intonation. You can see when Fil analysis the same passage that they are perfectly "in tune" but it sounds bad. One assumes they record the singers separately, they have individual mics on set.

[@nostromo7928]

Thank you, Fil, for what you're doing with your channel. I think people are just fed up with being lied to and deceived about EVERYTHING, not just music. We know that music has been 'doctored' for decades but when people are being told it isn't being altered and they're charging over a thousand dollars for the best concert seats it pushes people too far. I think we at least want our music to be truthful. Another great video, Fil. Keep it coming. People are listening.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

We want our music to be the best it can be! Which, IF we are talking about great singers (singers whose voices have a naturally high pitch accuracy), means music that is unedited by digital pitch correction and Auto-Tune. If people understood that they are missing out on hearing the best that something can be and they have to settle for something that sounds far less than the best, then we may have better chance of making the changes in the industry that need to be made.

[@Spo-Dee-O-Dee]

@@elizabethmiller7291 Sometimes the "best performance" is one that transcends the capacity of the human body, using the tools of the studio to produce a performance limited only by the imaginative genius of the interpreter.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

@@Spo-Dee-O-Dee Not applicable in the case of vocals, except in the rarest of circumstances...

[@Spo-Dee-O-Dee]

@@elizabethmiller7291 The greatest of singers were not necessarily known for high pitch accuracy. Maria Callas, pitchwise, could be all over the place singing herself into a frenzy, but that was all lost in the intensity of the character portrayal...her rival, Renata Tebaldi, mid-career on was notoriously flat in her upper register, but the sumptuous beauty of her tone overcame the fault. That this does not show up in the official studio recordings is a testament to a willingness to do 90!!! takes of an aria. No budget would allow for that today.

[@fredlyndalu]

Merry Christmas Fin and everyone else. Rock

[@BlessYourHeart254]

“No one’s ever gotten this powerhouse before.” Uh, hello, Judy Garland!!!

[@ilangayouthdanceco.3621]

Absolutely.

[@chrisperyagh]

@@ilangayouthdanceco.3621 It's as though the original film doesn't exist!

[@jamieson.]

FINALLY SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS AND PUT INTO WORDS HOW I WAS FEELING. Thank you

[@KAZAM707]

7:06 you dont inherently lose all of the added emotion because they pitch corrected their vocal. They were either going to use pitch corrected studio vocals or pitch corrected on-set vocals. One of those will be truer to their acting performance.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

Why do they have to pitch-"correct" at all???

[@universalassociates6857]

Maybe the director’s statement that the performers were singing live on set is true (i.e. not miming to a prerecorded track.) But the part about the audience watching the film would hear exactly what was sung, is incorrect.

[@AlexeBriand2002]

some bits here and there are different in the movie than what’s on the soundtrack, so it’s not entirely incorrect.

[@hotdog1214]

I think that's the fairest way to express it yes. 👍👍

[@enlightenedchuffer]

“Not all heroes wear capes.”

[@LiveTilliDie]

Both wings of pegasus and Luigi need capes

[@elizabethmiller7291]

@@LiveTilliDie The latter needs to be in jail for the rest of his life. Please don't compare him to someone like Fil.

[@ddegn]

I've been watching your videos for a couple years now. In the past when you'd say "you can hear it here," I'd think: "He can, but I sure can't." Something happened in this video. I started to hear the pitch correction. I think your story about the Chipmunks was helpful. The pitch corrected voices sounded "cartoony." Thanks for educating us on this topic. Hopefully your message gets out to people who need to hear it.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

We have to help get that message out!

[@L1623VP]

Cartoony is one way to put it. They sound robotic or like a robot voice to me with a sort of metallic "ping" to them.

[@maps_x]

How does Hollywood not know about this guy at this point?

[@elizabethmiller7291]

Just wondering ... have you signed Fil's vocal tuning petition calling for the full disclosure of the use of pitch correction when it is used on a singer's voice? Almost half a million subscribers to this preeminent channel and yet only 10,000 signatures so far??? We have to get that up to the hundreds of thousands before it has a chance of being newsworthy and then Hollywood, and everyone else, will know what and who we know! :)

[@carlnelson8819]

@@elizabethmiller7291Where do I sign?

[@nostromo7928]

I'd like to sign that petition. Where can I find it? Thank you.

[@dillarddillard-p4e]

@@nostromo7928I think the petition is on one of his live videos. I signed it not too long ago.

[@gianmarcogiuli5959]

I was WAITING for this

[@LeviClay]

Ill preface this by saying, I love Wicked, the show and the film. I knew that was a false statement before I even watched the film. That's not how filming works. They do take after take, different camera shots. Hell, in What Is This Feeling the camera cuts between different SETS. It's laughable that they'd film a take, and the director would say "flawless vocal take, but the dialogue wasn't there and I didn't like your facial reaction.... but we'll just keep it because the vocal was great" It's sad what companies will do in order to market a film, and sadder how easily people eat it up.

[@damaracarpenter8316]

I knew as well... the point about What Is This Feeling is the best part explaining the logistic problem of this claim lol! Also Dancing through Life! That was an incredibly intricate and athletic scene for almost everyone involved so in what universe would it be possible for it to be done live?? I'm GLAD it wasn't done live because it's a movie not a stage show.

[@thefirst9500]

I've hardly ever seen any live singing in a movie at all. Maybe that Doors one with Val Kilmer? He was actually good at it too. Otherwise, you can always hear the switch to a produced track. I just saw an excerpt of the new Bob Dylan movie where he's in a room with a guitar, which is the sound of the room at first, but as soon as he starts singing the switch to a studio recorded track is evident. Always grates on me a bit, I would actually enjoy hearing them sing, though I understand it's not always feasible, especially with the ones who aren't pro-singers.

[@marczakian3511]

Several things to say here. Firstly they can use multiple cameras on one take. Secondly the singing can still be live, and cut together., and I don’t think anyone would claim it was one and done as that would be a concert rather than a movie. What they didn’t do is record all the singing separately and then mime it all on set, which is how a lot of musicals used to be filmed. The Wizard of Oz for example. Modern sound engineering and filming equipment has made it possible to use live singing on set. The pitch correction would have been the post production sound engineers. Possible that a film director might not be familiar with this as it’s not part of the movie world.

[@johnrussell5245]

There's a misunderstanding here. Filming a musical scene like this usually starts with a 'master' (wide) shot from which the scene's sound track is taken. The additional vision-only shots from different angles, and close-ups, are then edited over the master shot without changing the audio. This approach ensures a perfect uncut sound track, only the vision has the cuts. How do I know this? I had 40 years as a director before retiring. As for the 'digital interference' with the singing-my guess is this is done by the sound engineer without the director or producer's knowledge.

[@alemobra5747]

i dont think its completely false tho, they did film a lot of the vocals live, doenst mean they dont process it, heck, theres processing in the dialogue too

[@MGrayl-ib5fo]

9:00 so ironed-out that they start to cancel each other out.

[@ThisGuyDude]

The beautiful thing about your videos is that you point out that either the artists and the producers and directors must be part of the scam, or they are being duped and are ignorant. Which is it? Artists, your silence is deafening.

[@MM62442]

I bet they all sign NDA over this. That's why no one on the inside speaks up.

[@L1623VP]

The producers are probably unaware, but I find it hard to believe that the directors of films don't know this is going on in their own movies.

[@Gradgirl]

@@L1623VPOr the artist themselves. How can they not recognize their natural voices from a produced version of their voices?

[@L1623VP]

@@Gradgirl True. The sound engineers are getting their orders from someone, and the artists aren't complaining about the final product, so it seems they're all in on it. They're getting paid so much money, they don't care.

[@markkinnish1196]

Great update as always Fil

[@JeffTaylor-tr7my]

Oh Fil...you are never too old for the Chipmunks. Teehee

[@kiroolioneaver8532]

This claim started with 2012's "Les Mis" (where they'd allegedly have earpieces in the actor's ears and play a piano to their voice). They apparently brought in the guy that did that film for "Wicked" but they also admitted that vocals were recorded pre-production (same with the new Bob Dylan flick). Watching it, I got the feeling that they probably cut and pasted live and pre-recorded vocals (this is particularly true for songs like "What Is This Feeling?" which take place during montages).

[@slchld.]

I mean yeah. This is common for scenes where singing is required but the actor is moving or doing something. It would sound bad if they didn’t pre record their vocals and use those vocals over the scene.

[@fromchomleystreet]

My guess is that the big, upbeat production numbers with lots of Chorus performers and choreography are all pre-recorded, but some of the more intimate duets and solos - where you’d really notice lip-syncing and where there’s more room for spontaneous expression - were recorded on set. I’m sure they had the opportunity to go back in the studio later and “drop in” to certain bits and replace them with a new vocal sung to match the vision as well, if there were particular bits they weren’t happy with.

[@universalassociates6857]

Need more Chipmunk references. Like need more cowbell.

[@boyonceknowles]

i’m starting to think people may not know what a harmony is 😭 cause yall say it sounds weird everytime two people harmonize lmao

[@veramilton833]

I am not at all surprised that some of these vocals were corrected! Somehow, it seems even worse to do this to a musical! A sad situation this is! Thanks for another great analysis video! 💜

[@Attmay]

What was the point of bringing musicals back if they were just going to be held hostage to all the same bad habits as the rest of the mainstream music industry?

[@alemobra5747]

the original soundtrack of wicked also had pitch correction tho...

[@sytonicflux]

2:10 it was once described to me that pitch is like a sheet of paper being held out flat, there's the light side and the dark side, as a singer it's your choice which side you want to be on. But the implication being that perfect pitch is not really achievable and in trying to hit it you will drift flat, this is a perfect example of how to approach this dilemma and Ariana has decided to always try to be on the light side.

[@rickrickard2788]

Know what I think, Fil? Until the artists begin suing whoever's doing the corrections, claiming "manipulation of performance", or "attempting to deceive audiences"? None of this will ever change. You, me, or anyone else who see's what's going on, can explain until we're blue in the face- but until those behind this mass manipulation are exposed, and feel the pain of legal, financial drain, I don't think they'll ever stop. The time to end this is now, before it get's any further- Hopefully some of these artists will see what you do, and actually realize the harm, and potential future harm, this kind of deception can & will have.

[@teppo9585]

Thing is, the manipulation of raw truth isn´t confined to just music but its all around. It´s intentional. It´s by design. I don´t think we´re at the point you think we are, that its just started and we need to stop it here. It´s been going on for some time and we´re just started realizing it happening in music through Fil´s contributions. But its everywhere, in science, in history. It´s all lies.

[@paulybarr]

I agree with everything you say, but it occurs to me that pitch correction is regarded as the aural equivalent of colour correction, or 'grading', which is a standard part of post- production- ie all ways to give the movie its final 'polish' or whatever. I've not heard cries of outrage about colour grading.

[@rickrickard2788]

@@paulybarr And the reason for that? It's not coming from an artists point of view- where the TALENT of an individual is being manipulated, so the product being promised, isn't finding it's way to the viewer. Polishing up color, even making a person look better? Is a type of "fraud", but is not a part of the talent being sold to the public, as "all natural" and "their voices". These artists get paid by the public, because they love their voice, emotion, and all that goes into creating the sound & style only THEY can bring forth. When manipulated by a machine, even a little? It is no longer the person you're hearing, but a parson AND a machine- something that was not there, when you first feel in love with an artist enough, you spent your hard-earned dollars to support them. That's the difference as I see it, and just the simple truth of it all. They seek to obfuscate & manipulate- and this is proven? Because they LIE about what's being done, or at best, lie by OMISSION, which is the very same thing.

[@rickrickard2788]

@@teppo9585 It has been around for a long time, you've got that right. I've been talk/warning of this since I got my first home studio, back in the early 2ks. I even had a YT channel. They shut it down. Took, everything. So I never did it again. I keep hoping they won't bother Fil, and I don't think they will- he's' got it down the right way, and knows now, there are pitfalls that must be avoided- something we were clueless about way back then.

[@DAVID-io9nj]

@@paulybarr At one level, that is true. The difference is the emotional weight most people give to the idea of hearing a "LIVE/REAL" performance versus a manufactured studio music track. If you are told this is "LIVE", that should mean something.

[@streetdrummersinc4387]

Always worth a listen,thanks.

[@alaskabarb8089]

I’m an artist, not a musician, but I watch every one of this guy’s videos. Maybe it’s nostalgia: a late ‘60s-early ‘70s rocker/sound engineer vibe, mixed with, um, Hobbit. Perfect.😎🍄

[@carr0760]

It's especially funny to me that they're still trying to claim that what we are hearing in the movie is live vocals when there has been behind the scenes footage released where we can clearly hear the difference between the actual live vocals and what appears in the movie. Also, in multiple interviews they have discussed the fact that in one scene a bunch of birds who had nested on the set would sing every time Cynthia started to sing and then stop every time she stopped. Do we hear those birds in the movie? No, we don't. That means they edited the sound.

[@marczakian3511]

Unless they put microphones on the birds, you would not hear them.

[@alemobra5747]

maybe cuz they used a lavalier mic on her which wouldnt capture the birds?? simon goes well into detail in this in his post, but yes, the vocals are mostly live, especially the scene youre referencing, that one was definitely live

[@courtneythompson6179]

The take in the behind the scenes might not be the same one they used in the movie

[@carr0760]

@@courtneythompson6179 He said it happened on every single take.

[@carr0760]

@@marczakian3511 They claim they were recording ambient sound, so you most certainly would.

[@jeancan2]

This explains a lot about my reaction to the movie! Thanks

[@MrShagification]

I saw people reacting to this film praising how incredible the REAL HONEST vocals are. And I'm sure they were great, until they messed them up in production. I hope we do get past this era of ultra produced vocal tracks, and just have some pure human voices again soon. Especially for duets... When 2 vocalists are locked perfectly on the grid, exact same pitch to the Hz, it just sounds bad.

[@papergodzilla]

Thanks for the analysis, was eagerly awaiting this one ever since seeing the movie because certain parts sounded really odd. Another thing I recommend everyone to do is to take a look at the soundtrack release of "Popular" on Spotify (or anywhere). Specifically when she sings "popular" right after 1.08, there is a blatant editing oversight (you don't even need good ears to notice this one). I doubt this was in the actual movie... not totally sure because I had to literally plug my ears due to my theater being WAY too loud for some reason. But I think it's just somewhat indicative of the state of the industry right now...

[@Attmay]

Sometimes there are deviations between the soundtrack albums and the actual movies themselves.

[@keithrichardson6836]

They should have got the wizard to banish pitch correction

[@Lilah1754]

Yes, he could do that! 😆

[@HunterTN]

Art is supposed to be about taking risks. Why they continue to autotune things to avoid those risks and produce uninspiring slop is baffling. Like the average person is going to know the note is slightly sharp or flat?

[@Spo-Dee-O-Dee]

Craft, on the other hand, is about reliably and efficiently producing the product the consumer, whether an elite patron or mass market, desires to purchase.

[@thefirst9500]

Greed stifles art and well, human beings. Maybe it's time to stop putting money about everything else and reestablish some decency. Wouldn't that be nice?

[@russshaber8071]

Fil Hendley, Data analyst, musician, Grammy Award Winner (I printed it myself), and a Bagginns. Just to clarify A4 = 440 Hz equal temperament is a frequency measurement system that ensures that every interval between two notes has the same basic harmonic qualities. Back to the show.

[@angelaboncore3132]

Should I be surprised that some of the vocals were digitally corrected? Nope! What a travesty in a musical to alter a great singers voice! Thanks Fil, you revealed yet another blunder by the industry/producer...

[@motheroats]

What about comparing this to a recording of the broadway version with Kristen/Idina?

[@damaracarpenter8316]

Love that idea!!

[@magnoliaskogen]

Yes I'd like to see Fil analyze the Broadway original cast recording of Kristin/Idina to see if they were pitch correcting that one

[@ytuser392]

I was about to comment that I would be curious to know if the soundtrack we have on youtube with Idina is also pitch corrected or not

[@alemobra5747]

they def pitch corrected the broadway version, i saw an insider talking about it on reddit and you can clearly hear it in some bits of "popular"

[@alemobra5747]

@@magnoliaskogen they were

[@chaos.corner]

I'd like to see a detailed spectral analysis on what happens to pitch corrected voices. If the note being sung is rising or falling, it seems to me that constantly pulling it to one line or another *has* to introduce unnatural distortions and that's what's responsible for the robot sounds.

[@fallenshallrise]

The directors know. These filmmakers are so desperate that even these "behind the scenes" trailers have as much post-production and CGI as the actual film. Remember the "no CGI" Barbie movie or how Tom Cruise promised "no CGI on the jets" to promote Top Gun Maverick, a movie with over 2000 effect shots. Hollywood is full of liars who will say ANYTHING to sell a movie.

[@EdConnelly8247]

Thank you Fil. Wow! This will blow up!

[@ddjr6673]

The most annoying thing is that as you say, both Ariana and Cynthia have terrific voices and bundles of talent - in fact even with pitch correction I was particularly impressed by Ariana Grande - I have sung classical live music all my life. Pitch correction removes so much humanity - such a shame - I would love to have heard the ‘real’ thing. Exactly as you say, ‘trust me they would not have needed editing’ SO true.

[@gregjones3565]

I don’t think they were claiming they didn’t tune it - just that by tuning the live vocal while acting, they would get more emotion. That’s what they said - they’d capture the live emotion - rather than a more vanilla overdubbed version.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

That doesn't sound right.

[@universalassociates6857]

Many women may decide not to go out without makeup so they can look their best even when they already have natural beauty. Music and movie producers have evidently decided not to let their artists be heard without putting on pitch correction.

[@Attmay]

This is the musical equivalent of those lip filters that make you look like a bee stung your lips.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

Bad analogy. Make-up is like vocal effects being applied to ENHANCE a vocal. Pitch correction actually CHANGES the vocal as in plastic surgery to change your face.

[@Jesterpec666]

So used to pitch correction on everything. Its depressing. My faith was restored last night when I saw Travis live in Eastbourne. 100% live. Fran forgot the lyrics on one and (after much laughter) the band restarted. Ad libs throughout yet fantastic performance. Wish more bands would take notice.

[@UpintheOaks_1]

Thank you very much! My daughter insisted that pitch correction was not used. I saw the movie after I requested that you check it and I really thought there was no way that was their natural voices. If you see the movie you would know that, with all the cuts, it would be impossible to record it live.

[@lisavargo5882]

Hoping this trend doesn't hit live musicals in the theatre. Going to see Neil Diamond, a beautiful sound in April here in the U.S. and I just hope it is a beautiful sound. I wish we didn't have to question these things.

[@svetlanaandrasova6086]

Not corrected aka not perfect is better cos it reminds us these actors are human just like us. Im sick and tired of autotunes.

[@alemobra5747]

i will say tho, there were some songs where it didnt seem like they uses pitch correction where singers were clearly off pitch, in some bits where cynthia and ariana sang together in defying gravity (which is way harder to autotune two people singing at the same time) so there was quite a bit of dissonance with them together which is a tailsign of not pitch corrected vocals

[@StargirlMusicChannel]

Right on - Fil!!! 💗💗💗

[@bibistaufi2653]

It is always a shame !! Thank you, Phil !!

[@stephengibbons287]

Yes the producers want to be the stars, great vid Fil.

[@kaleighcleveland7897]

That part you said sounded like the chipmunks had given me “take me all the way, Rosanna yeah” hahaha

[@iselliot]

i'm high, granted, but Fil's hair needs it's own spin-off series.

[@Juttutin]

Regrettably, there is going to have to be a court case and a judicial ruling on what exactly 'live' means wrt the line between 'direct analogue' and 'entirely modified' in the context of digital post-processing. Even if the decision is that per-note adjustments to pitch and timing still qualifies as 'live', at least then everyone will know for certain "live" is just a meaningless marketing term. My definition would be that 'live' allows for things analogous to legacy analogue-processing (filters, echos; compression, etc) but definitely NOT any per-note or inter-note specific adjustments. I'm not sure what I think about splicing together a track from multiple live takes… Does that count as "live" on a published recording? Does that change if the audio is released with a live performance video?

[@Spo-Dee-O-Dee]

I believe these matters were litigated years ago. When Milli Vanill was sued it was solely with regard to the recordings. That the settlement included refunds for the concerts was a means of diluting the settlement pool.

[@margaretthomas8899]

Another great one Phill, Showing my age. David Savil, he had a big hit with the Witch Doctor. 1958? By playing around with tape recording, speeding it up, recording his own voice over/ multi tracking at different speeds etc. Neil Sedaka and others were playing around with it at the same time. Later On Jan and Dean, to do with the surfing scene/ Jean Pitney and others used it to advantage. After WW2 it really began when tape recording came in. Les Paul, he likely more than any body is the Godfather of it. It is like you indicate it is the original performers, performance but altering what they did, or what initially happened.

[@richardh3113]

It seems that integrity has gone with the wind.

[@oliverholland7236]

When they said live i never assumed they meant unedited. I just assumed they meant that the vocals were recorded on the set in costume as opposed to in a studio environment. Basically only difference was where they put the mic.

[@davidadams9391]

It means they recorded it live, then corrected it….

[@Goldun-nah]

The problem is they promoted it as “what you’re hearing is raw vocals”.

[@simplyafederalist]

There is a diffrence between editted and pitch corrected. Edits and mixing is fine pitch correction is not.

[@jenniferhiemstra5228]

@@simplyafederalist Even pitch correction, when used properly, is fine. But it's clearly being overused.

[@farrex0]

I hate how pitch corrected voice sounds, it sounds so artificial, uninspiring and bland. My gf wants me to watch this movie with her, but I know I will hate it the whole way through. I saw the trailer and immediately recognized pitch correction. Seeing how they made a trailer to say they kept their live natural voices in the movie and hearing it juxtaposed with obviously pitch corrected voices is almost hilarious. As if you are seeing an SNL sketch.

[@Britney_Xposed]

It wasn’t all live. The audio engineer talked about blending the studio vocals with the live on set vocals. And Idina Menzel posted her recording session for her part of the movie. The audio engineers and producers told the truth. The rest of them did it. There’s a ton of interviews on KZbin

[@fromchomleystreet]

If they pitch corrected the studio-recorded vocals, where they can sing with no distractions, do as many takes as they like, and assemble composite takes, then they definitely pitch-corrected anything that was recorded “live” (ie on set) while they were simultaneously acting and dancing.

[@joshuacoldwater]

I actually worked on these TWO films. These two young women never stepped foot into a studio, that was the point this Director was making. Furthermore he was making the point that the music was recorded live (yes it was produced afterwards), even when they were going through INSANE STUNTS. You are normally spot on, in this case- you couldn’t be further off.

[@MACEASY2]

I think you misunderstood what he is saying - the point is what was done after they had recorded the live vocals on the set.

[@MotherOfSingers1001]

You are affirming exactly what he said, he said it’s such a shame that these girls went through the effort to sing live while acting, and then the idiots behind the curtain over-produced the sound to make them sound unnatural in some areas. Please, please, if you work on films like this, spread the word to not manipulate beautiful voices in production stage.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

Actually, Fil is spot on! And, you agree with him. Something has been lost in translation - maybe go back and listen to the video again and compare what Fil is saying is happening on the trailer vs the movie itself. The people who were on the set when the singing was done - like you, perhaps - had the distinct pleasure of hearing raw and visceral natural vocals. Moviegoers, on the other hand, are getting less than the best!

[@skypangolin8576]

I don't know if you saw my comment on a former video asking for this, but thank you. I love the soundtrack for the movie and I think they did a great job but I felt like something was off and it makes me sad they chose to edit it this way.

[@spellbinders_of_suspense]

This is an epidemic across multiple media formats. To me it’s about authenticity and preserving history. I can’t watch the original Stars Wars as it appeared in theaters unless I dig out a laserdisc bootleg copy. If I watch Star Trek OS on MEtv, it’s the CGI enhanced version not the original as it was first broadcast. Authenticity is a rare commodity now and all forms of media are in dire need of proper preservation and disclosure.

[@lukehb]

Fil, I think you give the producers and directors too much credit when you suggest they don’t know what’s happening here. The problem is, even if they assumed there wouldn’t be this amount of pitch correction - and that’s a big if - they knew with certainty what you are hearing wouldn’t be the “real” and “raw” version they heard on set for one very simple reason - they filmed each scene dozens of times from dozens of angles. Even if they believed the vocals all came from set - which they don’t, there is also studio pick ups that were recorded - it was always going to be a Frankenstein job, as they cut around between takes. And since each take is always going to be a little different, they could be certain you’d sometimes be hearing a vocal that didn’t match the camera angle, or take, (effectively resulting in lip-syncing), and they they would HAVE to process and pitch correct the audio to get the different cuts to match up. They cannot have believed it would be real or raw. I genuinely think the reason we have this mess is precisely BECAUSE they insisted on singing on set. Ironically, if they had recorded the vocals for each song as a single, authentic, live take - as performers on broadway and in the west end do each night - and lip synced to that on set, I think they would have potentially had a much more natural and organic performance than we got because they insisted on trying to record the songs on set.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

Interesting point. But, then again, it would still have been pitch-"corrected", right? So, same stupid end result. And, moviegoers are missing out on the best and having to settle for less because the powers that be decided that we should not be allowed to hear the unedited voices (unedited by pitch correction) of great singers.

[@lukehb]

@ sure, they probably would, but wouldn’t need to, as opposed to the way they did it which pretty much requires it. Short of just filming a stage performance (something like Hamilton), or doing it old Hollywood, with much longer shots, and much fewer takes, probably the only way you could do it without leading to a significant amount of of editing and processing. The main point is, they knew the kind of movie they were making, so couldn’t have believed they could assemble the number of shots they were filming, while also presenting a raw or real representation of what happened on set.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

@@lukehb Well, they made great musical movies before the advent of digital pitch correction so if they wanted to, no matter what kind of movie they were making or how they needed to record the vocals, they didn't have to pitch-"correct" them, is all I'm saying ... and hoping for ... :)

[@lukehb]

@ indeed. It’s very possible. It usually relies on one of two things. Either it uses a prior recording of the song, and lip-syncing as they sung and danced on the set, or else, it was done live, but with very long takes with minimal cuts and limited editing, to preserve the live feel. I love this style, and wish we saw it more today. That said, I also appreciate modern movie making. I’m just sad we’re in a place where they have become so dependent on digital pitch correction, re-recording, etc. as a crutch so they can do the kind of fast paced editing and quick cuts across dozens of takes that go along with it.

[@lukehb]

@@elizabethmiller7291 I’m pretty sure we’re on the same page here. I wish we could go back too.

[@MostlyBuicks]

WAAAYYYYY before autotune and pitch correction, Elvis would get an acetate of the recording session, the sound he APPROVED of. Then those recordings were manipulated for "production parts". Elvis would get those tapes. And it often pissed him off that it did not match the acetates Elvis approved of. And back when Elvis actually cared, he forced RCA to return the production parts to match the acetates he approved of. The recording industry is NOT concerned about reproducing a natural sound. They want to make recordings sound like a product. And whatever the trend is, they adopt that trend industry wide. Now that trend includes pitch correction and lockstep timing. I have ALWAYS preferred dry recordings. But they are very rare.

[@alessandrosmartins]

I'm starting to like when I watch a live performance and I can hear some imperfections. I thought Lara Fabian was loosing ability while aging, now I'm thinking the she is just not using pitch correction like most of the artists. Do Beyoncé and Gaga use pitch correction live?

[@jonathanvince8173]

This is what I hate about producers and people like them is saying they are the best singers in the world. That is impossible as anyone can be the best singer in the world who has a great ear for music and sings their way. So the start has made me angry. The voices are so good and then like you said robot voice happened. I think you are right about the pitch correction the robot voice just happens a lot in it. To me it is heavy because the robot voice happens.

[@giri.goyo_yt]

Send this video to Grande. She will feel sick, cry and then sue the filmmakers and get them to release the pitch corrected version. At least that's how I wish it could pan out...

[@bbtea4803]

it's really not that hard to understand, the vocals in the movie are mostly live from the set. live vocals can be post-processed, which they are since this is a major motion picture. the director is making the distinction that the vocals you hear aren't from the studio booth. there's nothing false about it

[@elizabethmiller7291]

There is very little human about it.

[@janleonard3101]

I hope Cynthia and Ariana will perform "Defying Gravity" live at some point. I was so excited when Cynthia was cast because of how incredible she was in "The Color Purple." If anyone wants to hear her actually singing live, watch the audience recorded video of "I'm Here" and the Today show performance of "The Color Purple." Both women deserved so much better than what was done to their voices in this movie.

[@cuppycakey5013]

Was it ACTUALLY live though?

[@WagnersChild]

@@cuppycakey5013yes dummy it was a broadway musical..

[@jenniferhiemstra5228]

But that is different still to a live raw vocal recording. A bootleg video is entirely ambient, which is different sound than a live vocal being recorded to a mic.

[@k21im]

6:59 that's not true...I definitely cried during the movie... Pitch corrected or not

[@SamBradley424]

Saw it with my mum and even she said “they weren’t singing live though were they” 😆👏

[@annemcbeath120]

Now I can only hear the Chipmunks… thanks Fil 😂😂

[@rmmccarthy1240]

Nice job, Fil.

[@KAZAM707]

Just to clarify for some people: singing live and unedited are not the same thing in this context. The vocals were edited in many ways (comping down to the syllable, reverb, pitch adjustment etc). When they say singing live, it means they utilized singing takes from the actual set in their workflow. This is confirmed by watching several long videos with the many people who worked on sound and music in the film. The director who speaks passionately about the live singing is not necessarily even sure where the editors used the live vocals and where they didn't. He just knows what he saw on set as well as the tremendous effort it took to record vocals live on set, and lastly he knows the discussions had about aiming to use the live vocal wherever possible.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

Regardless of how the musical is made and how many of the vocals were recorded live on set or in a studio, the most important thing is that the vocals are not pitch corrected. Is that too much to ask of a musical or of any non-"musical" movie where singing plays a big role?

[@KAZAM707]

@elizabethmiller7291 in some of the behind the scenes (incl some from this video), you can hear unedited singing. Sometimes it sounds great and sometimes, it definitely needs a push in the right direction. I do think they went too far tho.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

@@KAZAM707 I guess I'm what they call a purist or something because I'll argue 'til the cows come home that a great singer's vocal NEVER needs that kind of push.

[@pedromancenithe3rd]

So the question is WHY does an emotion generating vocal need to be tampered with. Who decides that the vocal has be trashed.

[@navypinkdesign]

Is it possible that the director meant we would hear what was RECORDED ON SET on the screen rather than songs RECORDED IN A TRADITIONAL STUDIO? In this case, it would NOT be a false statement as you suggest. To me, it sounds like he’s implying “we didn’t put them behind a glass window and put headphones on to sing into a mic.” Nothing more than that. But I appreciate the analysis, just disagree with your criticism and I haven’t even seen the film yet

[@JamieCleaton1]

Fil, let’s hope Universal Pictures overlooks this 😬😬😂

[@knockshinnoch1950]

Another terrific analysis. I find all this gaslighting of fans/music lovers depressing. Within a generation everyone is going to adopt a metallic sounding speaking voice picked up from listening to these fried vocal tracks. We will sound like DALEKS

[@nowster]

The Munchkins in the original Wizard of Oz film were recorded "undercranked" and played back at normal speed, just like the original Chipmunks. The sound recordings were made on film optical soundtrack because magnetic tape hadn't made it to the USA by that point. The munchkin actors were miming to playback. Many DVDs of the film have the original playback tracks amongst their bonus material.

[@Attmay]

A lot of those DVD extras were ported over from the laser disc box set from 1993.

[@patrickjordan2233]

Artifact driven performance...

[@VikingAwayFromHome]

You should definitely take a look at "the wizard and I" and "Dancing through life" from the movie soundtrack. Those are, IMHO, so heavily pitch corrected that it became darn near unwatchable during the movie.

[@magnoliaskogen]

Dancing Through Life is so so so so apparently pitch corrected, it would be hilarious to see Fil analyze it

[@dillarddillard-p4e]

“ sounded like the chipmunks’’ Fil laughing……WOW!

[@afiiik1]

They sound SO MUCH BETTER unisono when they are not corrected. The pitch corrected unisono just sounds like cat claws on a tin roof. 🙄

[@KAZAM707]

5:18 what you repeated is NOT the claim he made.

[@emiliekatrina]

Thanks for explaining why their voices sound so different when not singing together vs when they are singing together. Initially, before I knew there was such a distinct “calibration” thing happening on the harmonies, I thought it was a bad match of voices (that they just sounded too similar to begin with, maybe). Now I know it’s much much more engineered than that. 😢 I can only assume there are non disparagement agreements in place that prevents them from speaking up about it. Especially in such a huge and expensive production.

[@gr8one12]

"Anyway let's move on from the Chipmunks " 😂

[@doctordunc]

I think what you're showing is essentially that sound engineers are increasingly using some pitch correct as a standard tool, alongside reverb and compression, etc. in the sound production of a recorded vocal (they may well be using it on other instruments too). Now obviously all those things change the "dry" vocal and, in some respects, are intended to create an effect closer to hearing the voice in a room, rather than dry over a microphone. (For example, if someone sings slightly flat acoustically in a nice room, in the midst of everything else that's going on most people wouldn't notice, but it can be very noticeable on a recorded vocal, high in the mix. So I suppose it comes down to whether this effect is one effect too far, when it comes to "producing" a vocal sound in the edit. Is this the one that tips it over into being "fake"?

[@snowbunny1343836]

Yes! The chipmunks! 😂

[@x4tash]

It's not just the pitch correction. The difference between the sound quality of Cynthia's vocals in Defying Gravity is drastic. When she sings along with Ariana in that song - you can tell that it's live because there is a lack of high frequencies in their voices (Which makes sence cause the mics are not in front of their mouths). Then all of the sudden when Cynthia gets to that "It's meeee" part - she suddenly gets a studio sound quality of her voice like they placed the mic right in front of her, which is absolutely not possible during the scene shooting process cause they have to hide the mic behind the camera. So I think they either recorded some (or all) songs in the studio and then replaced some live lines with the studio ones. Or they didn't go to the studio and just recorded the same songs separately on set with the mics in front of them (with no acting and moving on set, obviously. Which basically is the same as if it was done in the studio). I didn't listen to all of the songs, but I think same goes for Popular. I don't believe it's possible to get a high quality recording of vocals when Ariana constantly do jumps, turns her head left and right and constantly running throughout the song.

[@ChanahAngelicaKamen]

I'm actually wondering if pitch correcting can be problematic for aspiring singers who listen to crunched down, autotuned voices. Most people tend to mimic what they're hearing if they want to sing in a certain style or like one of their favorite artists. I can't imagine that the prevalence of autotune won't cause people to develop tension or bad technique trying to imitate a sound that isn't even the one that artists are making. I've read people are saying that they didn't do this processing to the vocals in the actual film- then make it make sense if that's true, why do that for the soundtrack, when the unedited vocals sound so lovely?

[@BlackCatMargie]

If they sang it all on set, then it must exist. So, to the directors, please re-release with authentic voices. I loved the movie, and would be so happy to pay to see it again, with real voices.