How can DIRECTORS be clueless about THEIR OWN movies sound?!!

[@TDC5]

it feels like we're at that point where music releases should do what movies do and say "based on a true voice"

[@Andrei-sg7lu]

Movie voices have never been real. People re-record entire lines of dialogue in post. Many movie musicals had actors lip syncing 80 years ago. Mr. Pegasus is just making crap up for clicks.

[@comic4relief]

​Usually the sound and picture are made separately, sure, but mainly because filming an elaborate scene, getting a good sound, and performing the music all simultaneously is all but impossible.

[@robtapp6400]

@@Andrei-sg7lu I think you are misunderstanding the point of this, he is not making stuff up. He is responding to requests to check the audio because of the director's statement that what the audience hears is what was recorded on-set. When he compares it to older movies, when he says "live" it is more that the voices were natural and not pitch corrected, because obviously the technology did not exist. It has nothing to do with whether it was recorded on-set or in-studio, it is all about the pitch correction. Maybe for Wicked the audience does hear the performance that was recorded on-set, but it has been pitch-corrected, which often sounds flat, almost lifeless, as it takes out what people perceive as emotion in the voices. It is hard to hear emotion, which is often expressed in the variations of the voices, when those variations have been removed.

[@glamgal7106]

@Andrei-sg7lu That is true. Fil has done videos of performers who have pre-recorded. But you heard their NATURAL voices, not voices manipulated via pitch correction--that's a HUGE difference. How is he making up c*** for clicks? Explain!

[@totakoke]

@@Andrei-sg7lu pre-recording vocals and later lip syncing to them on tape is not the same thing as an edited and pitch corrected studio recording being marketed as a live performance.

[@fleshtonegolem]

When people can't hear pitch correction, I often remind myself of how I couldn't hear compression before I used compressors in mixing. Once you use the tools you can NEVER unhear the artifacts it introduces. Pitch correcting Harmonies is so common and SO OBVIOUS.

[@digital0785]

while yes i agree you can hear compression it's SIGNIFICANTLY less jarring then hard corrections maybe it's just me like i can tell compression is happening just like i can always tell when ADR is done in movies .. but it doesn't make me go YIKES unless it's terribly bad any pitch correction where they dont adjust the humanize slider up in melodyne are straight painful to me. you dont need it to be 100% corrected you can move the pitch but leave the voicing but that not what they're doing. heck nudging it so one of the harmonies are pushed sharp or flat but still CLOSE will make it sound better then -------------------------------------------------------- there is so much in pitch correction software they're obviously not making use of .. because it's obvious it's not auto tune so it's just lazy because a TINY bit more work makes it sound substantially better dissonance adds emotional tension use it to your advantage

[@ScottResnickMD]

That's such a good point.

[@jjakes5589]

Why do so many songs have compression during mixing?

[@ilangayouthdanceco.3621]

It is horrible! It is freaky, I was going to watch the movie. I think I just changed my mind.

[@marcwilliams9824]

​@@jjakes5589Compression is used because it's difficult to sing/play certain instruments at exactly the same volume throughout a song. Compression makes the naturally recorded but much quieter bits louder and the much louder bits quieter.

[@cindi1313]

The live vocal at 14:00 and then the before and after pitch correction of them singing together was one of the most dramatic demonstrations of what you lose with pitch correction for me. They are both fabulous singers and sounded great together. The pitch corrected version sounds so much thinner, it's like there is almost nothing there. It just seems so obviously worse to me, I can't imagine why they would do it.

[@BeatGoat]

@14:00, the sound in that video is recorded from afar, so the mic is picking up all the room acoustics, creating a "fuller" sound. The actual film equipment would be placed and configured to retain as little of the natural reverb as possible, so that the various takes would be easier to edit together and manipulate in post. It's the same for dialogue. (Compare a recording of your voice made while standing a few meters away from your phone to a recording of you speaking directly into the phone's mic - you'll hear what I mean.)

[@darkprose]

Yes, you're right. You are right.

[@chrissymoss514]

We don't want/need plastic, inorganic, "perfect" vocals. We desperately WANT/NEED true emotional, goosebump causing, genuine vocals. Another "eye-opening" video. Thank you Fil 😊 ❤❤❤❤❤

[@elizabethmiller7291]

Indeed!

[@richarddoan9172]

Or plastic, inorganic, "perfect" faces.

[@endlessstudent3512]

Well, considering how people are going through the roof in the videos about wicked and how they bawled their eyes out and how hauting and touching the singing is, I would say, it seems the correction does not keep people from loving it.

[@balanceis_key]

​@@endlessstudent3512 Sure, but that's because the sound engineers were pitch correcting singers who are already world-class in their fields, so it's still relatively minimal. However, if they were to know what they could have had in terms of live vocals, I'm sure they'd be like all of us here who could hear the editing. Just lots of peculiar choices made here and in the soundtrack.

[@sblumenstein6688]

My ex was an excellent musician and singer with perfect pitch. He always complained about Linda Ronstadt and other “emotional” singers. I think although he had the chops, he kind of missed the whole point.

[@PeterNiallLancaster]

As a professional sound engineer I’m surprised at how heavy handedly the pitch correction is being applied. One of the great things about pitch correction is that it can be used without the audience being able to hear its use. Snapping notes to the lines is just lazy and sounds very obvious. What I and many other engineers do is use our ears. We listen to a vocal. Spot the notes that are audibly too far in pitch from where they should be and gradually move them towards the correct pitch and stop when they sound right, not when they are over a line. Also we don’t flatten the whole note, we keep it as it was sung, with a bit of overshoot/undershoot at the start and a slight lift/drop at the end. That way it sounds natural. I appreciate that obvious pitch correction is how current vocals sound and is almost certainly what the record company insisted on, not the film director, but it is unnecessary and to me sounds like the sound engineers don’t know what they are doing, which is almost certainly not the case. They will be doing what they have been told to do.

[@slartibartfast1268]

To do manual pitch correction the way you describe is very time consuming, so of course they tend not to do it that wwy. Time is money. We must all kowtow to the greed of the corporate CEOs. That greed is killing everything beautiful in the world.

[@carolb3774]

Well, please listen to Katrina Velarde from the Philippines sing perfectly and without auto tune and you will be amazed. She is what a great singer sounds like.

[@macmachine]

​@carolb3774 I have perfect pitch. It is a kind of curse. Everybody...,,,, sings slightly off key to varying degrees so listening can be a mixed bag.

[@balanceis_key]

This is the most likely reason. There are too many odd choices in the soundtrack that make the songs worse that top notch sound engineers would not willingly do.

[@joshwilliams7692]

You're part of the problem. If you don't like the take, rerecord it.

[@KAZAM707]

Just to clarify for some people: singing live and unedited are not the same thing in this context. The vocals were edited in many ways (comping down to the syllable, reverb, pitch adjustment etc). When they say singing live, it means they utilized singing takes from the actual set in their workflow. This is confirmed by watching several long videos with the many people who worked on sound and music in the film. The director who speaks passionately about the live singing is not necessarily even sure where the editors used the live vocals and where they didn't. He just knows what he saw on set as well as the tremendous effort it took to record vocals live on set, and lastly he knows the discussions had about aiming to use the live vocal wherever possible.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

Regardless of how the musical is made and how many of the vocals were recorded live on set or in a studio, the most important thing is that the vocals are not pitch corrected. Is that too much to ask of a musical or of any non-"musical" movie where singing plays a big role?

[@KAZAM707]

@elizabethmiller7291 in some of the behind the scenes (incl some from this video), you can hear unedited singing. Sometimes it sounds great and sometimes, it definitely needs a push in the right direction. I do think they went too far tho.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

@@KAZAM707 I guess I'm what they call a purist or something because I'll argue 'til the cows come home that a great singer's vocal NEVER needs that kind of push.

[@KAZAM707]

@@elizabethmiller7291 I appreciate that take

[@alemobra5747]

@@elizabethmiller7291 literally every single musical movie in the last decade has been pitch corrected, its industry standard, its seriously not that deep

[@hazellorena4940]

Wow. Having now heard the unedited version of the “Defying Gravity” duet I am truly gutted that the audio was pitch corrected. That short clip was absolutely gorgeous. Why on earth did it have to be tampered with 😞

[@randomcommenter7343]

I hope at the Oscars (which I feel like is major enough they may still autotune the live feed), other award shows, or just in general we get to hear GENUINE live renditions of some of the songs that got so heavily pitch corrected. Cynthia and Ariana both have lovely voices and before I even watched this vid, hearing the pitch correction in the soundtrack was eating away at me. I mean, it's to be expected from a major movie musical, it's just unfortunate.

[@dionnehemphill469]

This whole video sounds deranged. This man is a sound engineer evaluating the statements of performing artists. Their language about how the singing was captured seem imprecise, according to the guy. Not a bold faced lie. I am truly sorry if there are any fans out there that naively think you can take a tape recorder, capture people singing, dancing, and moving about and splice that directly onto a piece of film - unfiltered, but have it sound like the million dollar blockbuster that it is. Of course, there is a TON of engineering that goes into recording- even if you're not manipulating the voice. There's no AI in Wicked. We know those girls can sing. The best take may have had a wobble in it, whatever... You have to sync up volume, tempo, background noise, etc I'm not sure what "aha" this guy THINKS he's uncovering- but this HE sounds like he's rage farming to me 🙄🙄🙄

[@purrgundy]

​@@dionnehemphill469What are you on about? He is not ranting about mixing or mastering; of course, the voices must be clear and evenly mixed with the music and the dialogues, as it would be the case with any movie. Fil is simply pointing out that the sound engineers of Wicked have tempered with the audio in a way that corrected the singers' pitch when, in reality, it wasn't necessary to do so, since the girls are already great vocalists. They did it because it is the standard of the modern music industry. But while it sounds "perfect" technically, it lacks the emotion of a live performance, which it could've had, since the director insisted on marketing the film as a "live vocal shooting" in the trailer.

[@johnlow810]

@@dionnehemphill469 Honestly, your comment sounds deranged. I'm a sound engineer and agree with everything he says here. He didn't mention AI at all, you clearly were not listening

[@elizabethmiller7291]

@@johnlow810 I wouldn't say 'deranged' but I don't think he understands all that pitch-"correcting" a great voice entails. It sounds like a lot of people put pitch correction in the same class as vocal effects and editing in general, along with mixing and the rest of it. That's because they don't understand how different pitch correction is from all of that other stuff in that it actually changes a voice rather than enhances it. Indeed, in the case of a great singer's voice, it actually makes that great voice less great. That lack of awareness and understanding explains how they can be satisfied that they are hearing the best of what those great voices in this movie had to offer. On the other hand, those of us who understand what pitch correction does to a great singer's voice lament the fact that, as good as voices may sound after pitch correction, we are missing out on hearing the BEST voices because we are not being allowed to hear them. Something has to give!

[@yankees4551]

I'm weeping for this movie. I autotuned my weeping to make it acceptable....

[@JR-tr1df]

🤣

[@nostromo7928]

Nice! 😂

[@e.kjaergaard9435]

I have pitch corrected mine 😭

[@loqueestamal3465]

I wrote this reply but then I didn't like how it sounded so I autotuned it.

[@willsmith8586]

I pitch corrected your autotune, you know it's the industry standard now.

[@Caity438]

The worst of this to me is that I can hear the pitch correction clicking on every time the 2 singers harmonise. But the engineers have slapped the pitches on to equal temperament, which sounds OUT OF TUNE compared to talented natural singers harmonising according to the actual frequencies and relative harmonics in their voices. Equal temperament is a sort of compromise solution to the problem of Western scales that sound best when the notes are in slightly different positions depending on what key you are in. The beauty of singers and other instruments without fixed pitch is that they AREN'T restricted by that and it is one of the reasons a capella singing gives you goosebumps. What the Wicked sound team has done is pull the singers from being ACTUALLY in tune with each other, (and that is not just musically but emotionally really important in the context of a musical about their relationship!!) and instead made them sound like a keyboard set to "female voice".

[@rickyhils]

Exactly. Equal temperament has major thirds sounding a bit sharp (out of tune) and minor thirds a bit flat (also out of tune). Good singers would not sing like that.

[@magnoliaskogen]

Thank you!!! It's so sad we don't get to hear the actual harmonies. Ariana and Cynthia have talked so much in interviews about the magic of their blended voices and how they are able to deeply listen to each other while singing which is what makes the harmony so magical, and then the producers completely stripped that magic out. It's depressing

[@alemobra5747]

how would they pitch correct 2 singers at a time tho? i dont know any person who would use polyphonic pitch correction on a track cuz it sounds horrible...

[@Caity438]

@alemobra5747 I don't know the technical stuff but you can hear the artificiality in the video and see the result. I assume they just have the singers on separate tracks and pitch correction them then put them together, similar to "a capella" groups that Fil has covered in the past. Edit to say it does sound horrible...

[@anngulliver5964]

I agree with t'is post

[@louisrios5546]

When you watch the movie (which we did and really enjoyed), you'll notice that every song is made up of a montage of scenes. Like, during the first line of a verse, the actors will be shown singing in a bedroom, but for the next line they'll be singing outdoors, then for the third line they're in a classroom, and so on. That's certainly normal for movie musicals, and those scenes were probably recorded days apart from each other. But apart from the question of pitch correction, it's hard to believe that the filmmakers were able to record a consistent quality/clarity of live vocals in all of those different locations. Surely, there was some ADR done to make all those scenes sound consistent.

[@laurenm3148]

B i n g o

[@chaos.corner]

"Ariana has a fantastic voice" "Yeah, but I've got a computer"

[@fairylips1904]

Doesn't change the fact that Ariana has a fantastic voice.

[@spookeymo]

@@fairylips1904 it was not their point at all

[@MichaelJamesWood]

@@fairylips1904 Ariana does have a fantastic voice and maybe someday we'll get to hear it.

[@chaos.corner]

@@fairylips1904 That's the point. Some mouth breather thinks he can produce something better because he bought some software.

[@paulburke9198]

@@chaos.corner THAT'S IT , "can't let all the money( "I've" spent go to waste ,and look how clever it make me seem) . Because I refuse to support the assholes in the industry , I don't get to catch what "could be" a fine film . .

[@victoria2944]

The final track was obviously edited, you can hear it at times. It’s such a shame because both artists have amazing voices and they didn’t need to be corrected.

[@katiemcteague]

Agreed. Both of those artists are so talented that to alter their performance is a crime. Especially if it's done without their knowledge or permission.

[@eb1900]

The entire movie honestly it was so distracting, so digital, so robotic sounding. So perplexing because these women really obviously don’t need it whatsoever

[@KamiFoxMusic]

People are too used to these pitch corrections that I think they well struggle to listen to songs that’s don’t have it unless you listen to live performances where you can see the difference

[@Attmay]

This is why I despise this process. It drags good singers down to the level of bad ones.

[@alemobra5747]

there were some spots where they didnt pitch correct them, especially when they sang together in defying gravity, there was a bit of dissonance between them, naturally, and people attacked them online for sounding "bad"

[@MrDooteronomy]

This is a great video. When I first saw the "Loathing, unadulterated loathing" clip online, I heard that pitch-correct stamp on it and wondered why no one was talking about it. I was like, am I losing my mind? This is obviously computerized. But as others have commented, if you haven't worked with pitch-correct technology, it's maybe not obvious when you're hearing it. Thanks for confirming that I am not insane.

[@elliotcohen6652]

I am not a musician and have never worked in a music studio. But I have watched and listened to Fil's analyses. When I watched Wicked in the cinema, the pitch correction really grated on my ears. It was excessive and obvious to me. I'm glad (not really, I'm sad, but you know what I mean) to find I wasn't imagining it.

[@carrieorsel1340]

Cynthia had a fit over someone editing the movie poster...I hope ahe would have a fit over this as well.

[@stealthis]

Maybe she already did which and the poster incident didn't just come out of the blue.

[@kittycat8222]

She would only attack a rando lay person never a powerful producer or hired studio editor. Like she did.

[@BlessYourHeart254]

“No one’s ever gotten this powerhouse before.” Uh, hello, Judy Garland!!!

[@ilangayouthdanceco.3621]

Absolutely.

[@chrisperyagh]

@@ilangayouthdanceco.3621 It's as though the original film doesn't exist!

[@politcallycorrect5816]

listen to what he actually said. "no one has ever seen this powerhouse like this"

[@rjenyawd]

​@@chrisperyagh... Judy Garland died 26 years before the Wicked book was even written. She was not in "the original." This movie is not a "The Wizard of Oz" remake.

[@chrisperyagh]

@@rjenyawd I never said it was and besides, you should direct your reply to the original comment I'm replying to.

[@crunchyfrog63]

So, right after I watched this video, an ad came on for a movie coming out about Bob Dylan. In addition to Bob, they've got someone playing Johnny Cash and Joan Baez. The ad was going on and on about how all the musical performances were live, using the technology of the time, and totally authentic. All I could think, watching this, was "I bet it was pitch corrected." Looking forward to Fil's analysis of that.

[@TheGreatAtario]

I feel like pitch-"corrected" Dylan And Cash would sound so incredibly weird that even laymen could hear it

[@robertyeagermusic]

@@TheGreatAtario I noticed that Timothee’s voice was pitch corrected when I heard those first two songs that were released from the movie. It sounded a lot like Bob Dylan, but weirdly autotuned. I have no idea why they might’ve done that, since it seems quite counterproductive.

[@ExitSiign]

Oof thanks for validating my feelings. The people I saw the movie with couldn't understand why I was frustrated. Their voices sound sooo good in background of the trailer compared to the edited version/movie release.

[@alemobra5747]

they sounded great in the movie, there wasnt a dry eye in the theatre after defying gravity, every single musical in the last decade has used pitch correction, heck, even the broadway recordings, you all are just clueless about the industry if you think this was gonna be any different

[@arowace498]

​@alemobra5747 bro, you're under every comment whining. Go outside. Not everyone has to agree with you.

[@alemobra5747]

@ its just funny how naive yall are lmfao, its insane how you expected a hollywood movie to not be pitch corrected, and this one was of the musicals that was the least pitch corrected, there are moments where they were clearly pitchy

[@arowace498]

@alemobra5747 no one said that. Thank you for your strawman and your lack of a life. But you can have both back.

[@arowace498]

@alemobra5747 no one said that. Thank you for your strawman and your lack of a life. But you can have both back.

[@agorgedslug]

There's a reason why virtual instruments had to incorporate a feature called 'round robin'. It means that a repeated note has several different versions that when players on the same instrument play unison notes they don't buzz together and create identical harmonics that grate on each other horribly. When two singers are identically 'calibrated' the exact same unattractive voice buzzing/clashing happens. The variations in pitch between the singers is what (would have) made them sound extraordinary. What a ridiculous shame.

[@geminijinxies7258]

Yeah! I totally hear the shrill MIDI SoundFont problem but with singing voices.

[@ChanahAngelicaKamen]

That is so brilliant to know, I've always wondered what the purpose of the round robin was. The one issue I have with some virtual instruments however is that there's often a wild different in the velocity of a note when an instrument has a round robin. It can be a drag to have to go in and manually bring down the velocity on the notes that unfortunately stick out badly. But absolutely makes sense what the feature is there for.

[@StratsRUs]

I've only seen Round Robin in older Samplers

[@alemobra5747]

why did they sound pitchy in 15:28 if they were autotuned? how would they even autotune them together?

[@Caity438]

​@alemobra5747 they sound pitchy because of the effect I was mentioning in my comment which you r3plied to where equal temperament tends to sound out of tune when applied to voices because singers harmonizing will naturally use just intonation. You can see when Fil analysis the same passage that they are perfectly "in tune" but it sounds bad. One assumes they record the singers separately, they have individual mics on set.

[@universalassociates6857]

Maybe the director’s statement that the performers were singing live on set is true (i.e. not miming to a prerecorded track.) But the part about the audience watching the film would hear exactly what was sung, is incorrect.

[@AlexeBriand2002]

some bits here and there are different in the movie than what’s on the soundtrack, so it’s not entirely incorrect.

[@hotdog1214]

I think that's the fairest way to express it yes. 👍👍

[@Bertwinters]

Came here to say this. I don't think they led people to believe that ALL the singing in the movie was recorded live on set. It's that they actually sung on set while filming, to make things feel more natural, rather than miming on set like many other musicals would do. Does not surprise me one bit that they pitch corrected the audio...all kinds of audio editing is done after the effect on films. This is somebody misinterpreting what the director/producer was saying.

[@markblanch2905]

So funny, Chipmunks is exactly what i thought Then, your pause.....and I was wondering what you were thinking, then, out it came, the C word!! 😅😅😅

[@erinmcgrathejm4985]

Fil, I remember that when they released the Hugh Jackman version of Les Miserable, it also was supposed to be live singing. Have you analyzed that one, and was there pitch correction there? I know that Russel Crowe got some flack for it, wondering about Hugh, Anne, Amanda (who all have a level of singing talent) as well as Eddie and others were handled.

[@LeviClay]

Ill preface this by saying, I love Wicked, the show and the film. I knew that was a false statement before I even watched the film. That's not how filming works. They do take after take, different camera shots. Hell, in What Is This Feeling the camera cuts between different SETS. It's laughable that they'd film a take, and the director would say "flawless vocal take, but the dialogue wasn't there and I didn't like your facial reaction.... but we'll just keep it because the vocal was great" It's sad what companies will do in order to market a film, and sadder how easily people eat it up.

[@damaracarpenter8316]

I knew as well... the point about What Is This Feeling is the best part explaining the logistic problem of this claim lol! Also Dancing through Life! That was an incredibly intricate and athletic scene for almost everyone involved so in what universe would it be possible for it to be done live?? I'm GLAD it wasn't done live because it's a movie not a stage show.

[@thefirst9500]

I've hardly ever seen any live singing in a movie at all. Maybe that Doors one with Val Kilmer? He was actually good at it too. Otherwise, you can always hear the switch to a produced track. I just saw an excerpt of the new Bob Dylan movie where he's in a room with a guitar, which is the sound of the room at first, but as soon as he starts singing the switch to a studio recorded track is evident. Always grates on me a bit, I would actually enjoy hearing them sing, though I understand it's not always feasible, especially with the ones who aren't pro-singers.

[@marczakian3511]

Several things to say here. Firstly they can use multiple cameras on one take. Secondly the singing can still be live, and cut together., and I don’t think anyone would claim it was one and done as that would be a concert rather than a movie. What they didn’t do is record all the singing separately and then mime it all on set, which is how a lot of musicals used to be filmed. The Wizard of Oz for example. Modern sound engineering and filming equipment has made it possible to use live singing on set. The pitch correction would have been the post production sound engineers. Possible that a film director might not be familiar with this as it’s not part of the movie world.

[@johnrussell5245]

There's a misunderstanding here. Filming a musical scene like this usually starts with a 'master' (wide) shot from which the scene's sound track is taken. The additional vision-only shots from different angles, and close-ups, are then edited over the master shot without changing the audio. This approach ensures a perfect uncut sound track, only the vision has the cuts. How do I know this? I had 40 years as a director before retiring. As for the 'digital interference' with the singing-my guess is this is done by the sound engineer without the director or producer's knowledge.

[@alemobra5747]

i dont think its completely false tho, they did film a lot of the vocals live, doenst mean they dont process it, heck, theres processing in the dialogue too

[@s.p.581]

So, I´m a non professionell musician with more than 20 years of practice singing in choirs and playing in wind orchestras. Then I would start writing little instrumental quartets, checking the notes I´d put down with the midi-player of the software I was using. And it never sounded nice. - One very good conductor taught the orchestra that the instruments who were playing the third in a chord had to rather aim for a lower pitch while the ones playing the fifth had to aim higher (if I remember this correctly). And the overall sound of the orchestra would be amazing. I think there´s nothing more perfect than the human ear. Ensemble musicians listen to each other and accordingly the solo singer adjusts his singing to the sound of the accompaniment or the sound he or she hears around her. This is why it´s so important for the musicians on stage to hear each other. - Thank you for your analysis videos 🙂

[@jamieson.]

FINALLY SOMEONE UNDERSTANDS AND PUT INTO WORDS HOW I WAS FEELING. Thank you

[@josh6871]

Wings draws the curtain back on the Great and Powerful Biz. Just read an interview with the sound mixer who went to great lengths to record "live". Only for these incredible voices to be churned into synthetic mush that made my ears bleed. Thank you so, so much for this one.

[@smurf902]

Exactly. And that correction wasn't done by him live, it's done afterwards, making it totally ridiculous to have recorded live on set to begin with. In the end it's pitch corrected up the whazoo, which is exactly the same product you'd have if it was overdubbed in the studio.

[@janleonard3101]

I hope Cynthia and Ariana will perform "Defying Gravity" live at some point. I was so excited when Cynthia was cast because of how incredible she was in "The Color Purple." If anyone wants to hear her actually singing live, watch the audience recorded video of "I'm Here" and the Today show performance of "The Color Purple." Both women deserved so much better than what was done to their voices in this movie.

[@cuppycakey5013]

Was it ACTUALLY live though?

[@WagnersChild]

@@cuppycakey5013yes dummy it was a broadway musical..

[@jenniferhiemstra5228]

But that is different still to a live raw vocal recording. A bootleg video is entirely ambient, which is different sound than a live vocal being recorded to a mic.

[@fizzychizzy]

@@cuppycakey5013 YES.

[@cuppycakey5013]

@@WagnersChild I’ve never seen it so how would I know, and I’m doubting most “live” vocals, so you’re the dummy.

[@Britney_Xposed]

It wasn’t all live. The audio engineer talked about blending the studio vocals with the live on set vocals. And Idina Menzel posted her recording session for her part of the movie. The audio engineers and producers told the truth. The rest of them did it. There’s a ton of interviews on KZbin

[@fromchomleystreet]

If they pitch corrected the studio-recorded vocals, where they can sing with no distractions, do as many takes as they like, and assemble composite takes, then they definitely pitch-corrected anything that was recorded “live” (ie on set) while they were simultaneously acting and dancing.

[@Rik77]

It's a shame they pitch corrected though. They didn't need to, especially a studio recording. Post production doesn't have to mean pitch correction.

[@Rik77]

​​@@fromchomleystreetto be fair, in a studio each singer would be recorded separately which means they would have to be pitch corrected to blend the vocals together. They wouldn't be singing together unfortunately, in wizard of oz they would be recorded singing together and do wouldn't need pitch correcting anyway.

[@alemobra5747]

they said that about the soundtrack, cynthia and ariana's vocals were live, the sound engineer, simon, confirmed they didnt even step in the studio for recording for the movie

[@zonaldzuck1859]

This is so funny it’s like he’s reading a polygraph for live singing

[@RealGriz]

Until and unless artists refuse to allow this to happen to their performances and/or audiences refuse to listen to these performances and/or laws are passed to ensure that we are notified that what we will hear is not a true live performance, nothing will change.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

And, I think people just need to hear the argument, over and over again, what it is that they are missing out on, what they are being deprived of, what they are not being allowed to hear. Even if they see the performance - Wicked, in this case - and they feel like it sounded great they need to be made to realize that as good as it may have sounded to them, the unedited voices of great singers would have sounded much, much better! How do we drill this into peoples' heads? I don't know. Fil is certainly doing his part and when he announces the details of his side project next year, then we will all have our work cut out for us! :)

[@deviantmultimedia9497]

What I think happened was, the on-set performances were probably great but the executive producer for the musical content of the movie did not have the balls to ship the movie with pitch imperfections in it. Keep in mind, NOBODY has had the guts to do that yet. There have been countless albums, Netflix specials, KZbin channels, etc, in the last 20 years that have claimed to be live and unedited, but none of them (that's 0% ZERO PERCENT) have actually been untouched in terms of pitch. This has undeniably had a significant effect on the public's expectations of what recorded live vocals should sound like as well as the amount of human error they are willing to tolerate. But how much of an effect has it had? Exactly how much pitch discrepancy will the public tolerate? That's the thing-nobody knows! It's not quantifiable until someone actually releases *_real_* live, unedited vocals. Until then, the question claws at the back of every producer's mind until they start thinking. _"Am I really going to be the first to take the plunge? What if the public has become too accustomed to pitch correction and this translates as utter garbage. Not this one. I can't take that risk on this release, it's too important. The next one. I'll for sure do it next time."_ (if you can't already tell I'm speaking from experience here)

[@TheGoldenpk]

The fact that some of you need this video, even given that these two women are two of our greatest singers, said a lot. Whatever "tuning " was done, in NO WAY takes from just how truly talented these two women are. Shame on some of you for looking for something to criticize🙄

[@Mhantrax]

This isn't criticizing the singers....

[@TheDame]

While I fully agree with your analysis and professional breakdown: singing live doesn’t mean not autotuned. We know now that 90 percent of arenas stage shows are using autotune on even live mics. When I lay in bed at night and listen to this soundtrack, you can literally hear the compression of the rooms they are singing in. It’s definitely them singing live. The post production was just heavy but it doesn’t reduce what they did on set. Live vocals are never captured on set anymore and I understood that to be Mr.Chu’s point. Great video though.

[@anabelanguyen1748]

In attend stages this is normal. For Broadway, pitch correction is never used.

[@TheDame]

@ yeah but this isn’t broadway. Cinema operates under different parameters for live audio.

[@anabelanguyen1748]

Yes but you’re talking about arenas, I just don’t see where that applies here. I also think them singing on set was a bad idea, those sets were not made to amplify sound. I think that’s one of the reasons for so much vocal editing in the first place. Wish they had recorded it in a theater, similar to how professional stage recordings are done

[@TheDame]

@@anabelanguyen1748 so I actually work a theater job for a living. I’m a stage manager. While I would have loved that, I just think it would have physically restricted the look of the film. And to me the movie sounds fine. I don’t get all the fuss. Listen to the abysmal soundtrack that is Beauty and The Beast with Emma Watson then tell me Wicked is poorly edited…Emma sounded like a dang Robot. 🤖

[@BrofUJu]

Thank you. It is definitely heavy handed at points, but this is just kind of par for the course and the world we live in. I don't love it, but I'm not outraged, lol

[@lobaetoile8440]

The singers did sing live on the set, then the vocals were edited. They didn't hide this fact, I mean, I'm pretty sure Ariana said she went through the recording of their vocals (hers and Cynthia's at least) and edited them herself (although there may have been another recording engineer or producer doing an overview or changing details after her). In another hand, I don’t know of any film that doesn't need both visual and audio editing, and color correction (not even small indie onew). Also from what I understand, the movie sets were huge and the size, shape and materials of the room must affect the sounds in general picked by the machines... I know there are special microphones that cancel the sound of wind, for example, but I don’t know the variables of every set, or how the differences in the audio of eacb set could make the viewers experience distracting and take them out of the story, if they were totally untouched post-production. The fact the dance choreographies were complex and had stunts is also a factor, not to mention Cynthia sang Defying Gravity while "flying around" with a harness and she even had to adjust/change her usual vocal technique (mostly her breathing technique) in order to be able to sing while suspended and restrained. Long story short: I would never had expected a musical under these conditions to not be edited. I don’t even know of any non-musical film that doesn't have any audio editing. I think they tried their best to make a musical while introducing new innovations, it's an extremely ambitious project. I personally thought the main actresses were able to act and sing in a way that was nuanced, passionate and inpressive. To be completely sincere, although I do usually prefer more raw vocals over heavily autotuned ones, I think having unrealistic expectations and nitpicking to this degree comes across bitter, petty and disingenous, and it makes the experience as an expectator much less entertaining. I am frankly excited to see live performances of these songs by the cast, I think it would be delightful.

[@mithramusic5909]

Many of the vocals were captured on set. That's what I understood by "live". Being pitch-corrected doesn't surprise or disprove anything for me. Some of the vocals were captured on-set rather than in a studio, dubbed. I think that's great, and comes through

[@kelownatechkid]

Yup. Soundtrack was recorded before the movie, they sung on set and made different changes, then afterwards additional dubbing and editing was performed. All very boring standard stuff

[@mithramusic5909]

@kelownatechkid and much of the vocal was done with a live piano accompaniment into small ear pieces. Imagine trying to pre-record then lipsynch during the intro of I'm Not That Girl, for example

[@coatza86]

Many many many people are so naive with this kind of stuff. A movie like that would definitely not use the sound coming from the boom mic and lav mics on the released product. Yes, they sang live while shooting but to 1. Get the live body language and expression; 2. Use all of that audio as a guide when coming to the studio. The music is 100% produced and re-recorded. Singers were in a booth. Vocals sound clean with no background noise whatsoever-RX is not a magic wand and can’t clean everything. 90-95% percent of every sound in movies is added in post-production: music, dialogue (ADR), foley, SFX, crowd noise, ambience noise, wind, EVERYTHING

[@amos.rand_vfx]

I always took the statement that it's recorded live to just mean it was not lip synced. I'm fine with a little pitch correction tbh.

[@tj2375]

17:00 the original wizard of oz doesn't have the songs as recorded on set. They aren't pitch corrected obviously, but the songs were recorded separately in a studio.

[@kiroolioneaver8532]

This claim started with 2012's "Les Mis" (where they'd allegedly have earpieces in the actor's ears and play a piano to their voice). They apparently brought in the guy that did that film for "Wicked" but they also admitted that vocals were recorded pre-production (same with the new Bob Dylan flick). Watching it, I got the feeling that they probably cut and pasted live and pre-recorded vocals (this is particularly true for songs like "What Is This Feeling?" which take place during montages).

[@slchld.]

I mean yeah. This is common for scenes where singing is required but the actor is moving or doing something. It would sound bad if they didn’t pre record their vocals and use those vocals over the scene.

[@fromchomleystreet]

My guess is that the big, upbeat production numbers with lots of Chorus performers and choreography are all pre-recorded, but some of the more intimate duets and solos - where you’d really notice lip-syncing and where there’s more room for spontaneous expression - were recorded on set. I’m sure they had the opportunity to go back in the studio later and “drop in” to certain bits and replace them with a new vocal sung to match the vision as well, if there were particular bits they weren’t happy with.

[@biosparkles9442]

The Les Mis vocals also, for the most part, sounded terrible because the actors were constantly exhausted and dehydrated for the sake of the aesthetic. Les Mis was basically a 101 class on how not to do live vocals in a movie musical.

[@bethm2004]

@@biosparkles9442Yeah, Sideways did a whole thing about it.

[@Arnica_Burdock]

While I recognize that the pitch editing in the final product unfortunately strips out some of the emotion and connection, I want to acknowledge that the reason Jon M. Chu (the director and the main voice you hear speaking in this clip) says it was so important for the actors to sing live was because this gave them the freedom to be fully present as their characters in each take, following the emotion and tone in each moment, rather than being bound to the timing of a pre-recorded track. This aspect, affecting their scene timing and vocal timbre and dynamics carries over despite the editing.

[@sytonicflux]

2:10 it was once described to me that pitch is like a sheet of paper being held out flat, there's the light side and the dark side, as a singer it's your choice which side you want to be on. But the implication being that perfect pitch is not really achievable and in trying to hit it you will drift flat, this is a perfect example of how to approach this dilemma and Ariana has decided to always try to be on the light side.

[@enlightenedchuffer]

“Not all heroes wear capes.”

[@LiveTilliDie]

Both wings of pegasus and Luigi need capes

[@elizabethmiller7291]

@@LiveTilliDie The latter needs to be in jail for the rest of his life. Please don't compare him to someone like Fil.

[@TombCat]

PHIL is no hero. He's a one trick hack.

[@laurenm3148]

0:41 "I don't know if it was on Broadway." lol. yeah. it was. it's where it originated, ha

[@fallenshallrise]

The directors know. These filmmakers are so desperate that even these "behind the scenes" trailers have as much post-production and CGI as the actual film. Remember the "no CGI" Barbie movie or how Tom Cruise promised "no CGI on the jets" to promote Top Gun Maverick, a movie with over 2000 effect shots. Hollywood is full of liars who will say ANYTHING to sell a movie.

[@maps_x]

How does Hollywood not know about this guy at this point?

[@elizabethmiller7291]

Just wondering ... have you signed Fil's vocal tuning petition calling for the full disclosure of the use of pitch correction when it is used on a singer's voice? Almost half a million subscribers to this preeminent channel and yet only 10,000 signatures so far??? We have to get that up to the hundreds of thousands before it has a chance of being newsworthy and then Hollywood, and everyone else, will know what and who we know! :)

[@carlnelson8819]

@@elizabethmiller7291Where do I sign?

[@nostromo7928]

I'd like to sign that petition. Where can I find it? Thank you.

[@Heightsomethinghuman]

@@nostromo7928I think the petition is on one of his live videos. I signed it not too long ago.

[@nissemus]

@@elizabethmiller7291 Why don't you tell us where to find this petition, then?

[@ddegn]

I've been watching your videos for a couple years now. In the past when you'd say "you can hear it here," I'd think: "He can, but I sure can't." Something happened in this video. I started to hear the pitch correction. I think your story about the Chipmunks was helpful. The pitch corrected voices sounded "cartoony." Thanks for educating us on this topic. Hopefully your message gets out to people who need to hear it.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

We have to help get that message out!

[@L1623VP]

Cartoony is one way to put it. They sound robotic or like a robot voice to me with a sort of metallic "ping" to them.

[@ranma9823]

Yes! I was so frustrated with Cynthia's Defying Gravity because of it. It could have been so much better. ​@L1623VP

[@ShadedTopaz1]

I think the worst thing about it is that deliberate choices can be made about sliding into notes and being slightly off and dynamics/volume. That's what's so gorgeous about seeing live musical théâtre.

[@tallus45]

when I watched this movie in theaters, the music sounded way better than the released soundtrack. I have a feeling that the music in the actual movie is live singing but the soundtrack is over processed. It could also just be me being in awe for too much of the movie that I just didnt notice, but with how the digital soundtrack cut the slapping of the books in What is this Feeling and also cut out the big pause before Elphaba's iconic war cry, I have a feeling i'm not delusional about this.

[@JeffTaylor-tr7my]

Oh Fil...you are never too old for the Chipmunks. Teehee

[@lakeleaf9]

The worst part about this is that their voices ARE nearly perfect, literally what was the reason to correct anything ?!?

[@nostromo7928]

Thank you, Fil, for what you're doing with your channel. I think people are just fed up with being lied to and deceived about EVERYTHING, not just music. We know that music has been 'doctored' for decades but when people are being told it isn't being altered and they're charging over a thousand dollars for the best concert seats it pushes people too far. I think we at least want our music to be truthful. Another great video, Fil. Keep it coming. People are listening.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

We want our music to be the best it can be! Which, IF we are talking about great singers (singers whose voices have a naturally high pitch accuracy), means music that is unedited by digital pitch correction and Auto-Tune. If people understood that they are missing out on hearing the best that something can be and they have to settle for something that sounds far less than the best, then we may have better chance of making the changes in the industry that need to be made.

[@Spo-Dee-O-Dee]

@@elizabethmiller7291 Sometimes the "best performance" is one that transcends the capacity of the human body, using the tools of the studio to produce a performance limited only by the imaginative genius of the interpreter.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

@@Spo-Dee-O-Dee Not applicable in the case of vocals, except in the rarest of circumstances...

[@Spo-Dee-O-Dee]

@@elizabethmiller7291 The greatest of singers were not necessarily known for high pitch accuracy. Maria Callas, pitchwise, could be all over the place singing herself into a frenzy, but that was all lost in the intensity of the character portrayal...her rival, Renata Tebaldi, mid-career on was notoriously flat in her upper register, but the sumptuous beauty of her tone overcame the fault. That this does not show up in the official studio recordings is a testament to a willingness to do 90!!! takes of an aria. No budget would allow for that today.

[@EeliusAstaroth]

Facts. You don't get the full price of a ticket if you're only doing 1/2 the work you claim to be doing. That means 1/2 off 😆

[@motheroats]

What about comparing this to a recording of the broadway version with Kristen/Idina?

[@damaracarpenter8316]

Love that idea!!

[@magnoliaskogen]

Yes I'd like to see Fil analyze the Broadway original cast recording of Kristin/Idina to see if they were pitch correcting that one

[@ytuser392]

I was about to comment that I would be curious to know if the soundtrack we have on youtube with Idina is also pitch corrected or not

[@alemobra5747]

they def pitch corrected the broadway version, i saw an insider talking about it on reddit and you can clearly hear it in some bits of "popular"

[@alemobra5747]

@@magnoliaskogen they were

[@kimswaden-ward1239]

I think the director is only referring to the fact that the songs were recorded ‘live’ (simultaneously) to the filming on set. This is very rare as usually the tracks are laid down in the studio and the performers lip sync on set. So it doesn’t feel disingenuous to me. That said, it would be better if they had not decided to pitch correct in post.

[@HunterTN]

Art is supposed to be about taking risks. Why they continue to autotune things to avoid those risks and produce uninspiring slop is baffling. Like the average person is going to know the note is slightly sharp or flat?

[@Spo-Dee-O-Dee]

Craft, on the other hand, is about reliably and efficiently producing the product the consumer, whether an elite patron or mass market, desires to purchase.

[@thefirst9500]

Greed stifles art and well, human beings. Maybe it's time to stop putting money about everything else and reestablish some decency. Wouldn't that be nice?

[@EasternStandardTim]

“Every little trait, however small, make my very flesh begin to crawl” Truer words never spoken 😂 Remember when Cynthia freaked out about people editing a poster, well, where’s the freak out over this bs?

[@pedromancenithe3rd]

So the question is WHY does an emotion generating vocal need to be tampered with. Who decides that the vocal has be trashed.

[@andrewposner6703]

As a singer, I am 100% agree with what you are saying about. It would be better if they did not use this type of pitch correcting at least as much as they did. There was one commenter who said that he may use it some if there’s an obvious pitch issue, and I do agree with that too. that being said, I did not interpret the director statement the way that you did. I actually believe that what he was saying is 100% true. To me, he was talking about the acting and how the fact that they used live vocals instead of recording them in a studio allowed for them to have a depth of emotion that you wouldn’t get if they hadn’t been singing live on set. I am really glad that you used the one clip that we have from the actual movie, because I almost don’t listen to the soundtrack so much because it sounds so processed whereas I did not get that feeling watching the movie itself. I also felt that the comment about the concert was from his perspective while directing it not from our perspective as the audience. That being said, I do think we would’ve gotten that more Broadway caliber experience if they had not processed it for pitch as much.

[@Ask-a-lottle]

I feel so vindicated. I was telling my family how the voices sounded a little off, like they're artificially auto-tuned, but nobody noticed. I thought I was just being skeptical, but I guess it's true

[@limelrac]

Preach!!! There was absolutely no reason to pitch correct anything of the Wicked songs... It's just the standard nowadays, everything has to be perfect. But funny enough, it WAS perfect already!! Now it just sounds robotic.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

How do we combat the crazy idea that pitch correction has become the standard because everything has to be "perfect" when pitch correction only destroys a great singer's voice and replaces it with a soulless, lifeless computer-generated voice. Do we have to redefine 'perfect'?

[@JohnPavlovitz]

That's the tragedy, Fil. These singers worked tirelessly to do these vocals live and they deserve to be heard. This pitch correction is a disservice to talented singers who refine their craft.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

Now, if we could get the singers/actors to start an uproar about what has been done to their voices, then we may have something...

[@Spo-Dee-O-Dee]

A singer's job in a film is to deliver the performance that most closely matches the vision of the producer so that the end result is more easily obtained and retains the most naturally sounding character.

[@just_passing_through]

I’m absolutely sure that both of them were singing, live on set… Because that’s the best way to look as though you are singing live. That does not mean that the singing that was done live on set is the same vocal that ended up on the soundtrack, or in the movie theatre. They are basically lip syncing, but the vocalising while they’re doing it, but they went into the studio and record the songs before they went on, sent to mine to they pre-recorded vocals. Having said that, there’s no way to record a top quality vocal performance on a sound stage. The vocals are always recorded in a sound studio, and overdubbed onto the video footage. Virtually nothing new here. Dialogue wise in a movie is recorded on set. There are problems with microphone placement and acoustics and background noise. Almost everything is over dubbed, including the dialogue, so I can imagine how hard it is to actually record singing on set. It just doesn’t happen.

[@greywaren621]

This.

[@slchld.]

They did live takes but ultimately things will get edited and there’ll be parts where they’re lip syncing due to movement and etc

[@fromchomleystreet]

I have no doubt that they’re telling the truth about that bit - that some of the raw vocal tracks that were later digitally pitch corrected, particularly on the more intimate, emotional solos and duets, were recorded on set. There’s no fundamental difference between capturing a high-fidelity recording of spoken dialogue and capturing a high-fidelity recording of singing. Where you can do one, you can do the other. And if you can do both in the same place, at the same time, with the same microphone, the transition between one and the other is going to sound considerably more natural and less jarring than it does in most musicals. Lip-syncing to pre-recorded tracks was the traditional way to shoot movie musicals, because, despite the fact that it’s never going to be 100% convincing, it’s a much easier and more efficient way to churn out a musical. It also wasn’t possible to do it any other way before the advent of wireless in-ear monitors, because you need a clean track with JUST the vocal on it, but the singer needs to hear the accompaniment. With modern technology it IS possible, and offers the advantage that the actor isn’t restricted by having to slavishly match their on-set performance to a vocal recording they made months ago, before they’d had the opportunity to understand the character’s emotional situation as deeply as they typically do by the time they get around to actually shooting the scene the song is in. It also avoids that tell-tale “switch”, between the sound of a vocal recorded in the space we’re looking at and one recorded in a sound-proofed vocal booth, that you always get in classic musicals every time the character moves from speaking dialogue to singing. At least in theory, it offers the opportunity to capture a much fresher, more “authentic” and more emotionally engaged performance. Lip-syncing is also really hard to pull off convincingly, especially when you’re in an unforgiving closeup and the vocal performance you previously recorded has any degree of rubato in it. Certain recent musicals have made a point of doing it this way, in particular the recent “Les Miserable” movie with Hugh Jackman, where some poor guy had to sit in an adjacent room and play piano every time they did a take, which the actor alone could hear on set. It wasn’t a prerecorded backing track so that the actor had the freedom to play with the tempo, and the pianist followed their lead. Then an orchestra conductor at a later date had the task of matching an orchestra’s timing to the piano and voice. A lot of complications, but at the end of the day you get a performance that would simply be impossible doing it the old way because it would require lip-syncing precision of a super-human level. Of course, the fact that they record the raw vocal “live” on set does not mean they don’t avail themselves of every production trick in the book once that vocal gets put into a sound engineer’s DAW, including pitch-correcting it up the wazoo. The existence of these tools is another thing that makes “live” recording in movie musicals more feasible than it was. Where once a producer would get a “perfect” recording in a studio and then the actor didn’t have to worry about hitting notes accurately while also focusing on acting, dancing, and hitting their mark, now they have the opportunity to construct the “perfect” take retrospectively, meaning the actor STILL doesn’t have to worry too much about hitting notes accurately while they are also focusing on those other things, because they know it can all be “fixed” later.

[@L1623VP]

"Having said that, there’s no way to record a top quality vocal performance on a sound stage. The vocals are always recorded in a sound studio, and overdubbed onto the video footage." No so. I've seen many movie musicals over decades, and they all have that same artificial quality where the voice doesn't seem fully embodied by the actor/singer precisely because they're not singing with live-full voice at the time of filming...except for the film of Les Miserables about ten years ago. The director made the choice to have all his actors give a live, full-voice performance during the actual filming, and that's the performance that's heard in the final film. That's the only musical film I've ever seen where the singing feels true and authentic because it is. It's a very different experience that adds so much more emotion to the film. It's why Anne Hathaway's I Dreamed a Dream was so gripping because she's really singing live during the filming, unlike the cast of Wicked and all other musicals on film. I don't even like Les Miserables, and I was moved by the musical performances, particularly most of the solos, because the vocals were truly live on film which gives such a different experience. You can hear the difference, so it is certainly possible to record actors signing live on a sound stage for the finished film. All the Les Miserables actors talked about singing live on the set and how they each had hidden ear pieces through which they were hearing a pianist play the accompaniment to which they sang. It was the full orchestra that was added later to the soundtrack, but NOT the voices. The voices you hear in the film are the exact performances the actors gave during filming. It's the only time that's ever been done in a movie musical, and the effect was powerful. The director said from the beginning that he wanted full-voice, live, on-film vocal performances and it was a fantastic decision.

[@KAZAM707]

Please do some more research on this. They painstakingly recorded live vocals on set where feasible (and sometimes not) going to extreme lengths. That said, you are correct that the end result was an amalgamation of pre records, live on set vocals, and ADR sessions all edited. You can hear the vocals are not "top quality." They also recorded in studio with a regular condenser mic AND lav mics positioned based on costumes for each song so that when they use studio takes, it would sound more seamless.

[@lisajanene]

This BUUUUUGEED me. When they said “live” and went to watch it and it was CLEEEEEEEEAARLY edited to some extent, I was like what the heck is this? Like stop trying to pull one over on your audience, we aren’t stupid. Have a little bit more respect for your audience. The directors knew what was happening to the vocals. I was, indeed, surprised.

[@TheAlsoni]

Why cast amazing singers to make them sound like they can't hold a note without a machine?? I tried watching this movie and couldn't get past the way the harmonies lose all colour when both voices sound the exact same. I wish we could see a version without the pitch correction but I doubt they even have it.

[@ChanahAngelicaKamen]

I'm actually wondering if pitch correcting can be problematic for aspiring singers who listen to crunched down, autotuned voices. Most people tend to mimic what they're hearing if they want to sing in a certain style or like one of their favorite artists. I can't imagine that the prevalence of autotune won't cause people to develop tension or bad technique trying to imitate a sound that isn't even the one that artists are making. I've read people are saying that they didn't do this processing to the vocals in the actual film- then make it make sense if that's true, why do that for the soundtrack, when the unedited vocals sound so lovely?

[@markkinnish1196]

Great update as always Fil

[@reylandvilla6646]

In movies everything is modified and corrected… from audio to video.. maybe live, since shooting is done inside the recording sets so they can control the ambient noise.. compared to filming outside.. but live does not mean the audio (even speaking parts) are not corrected..

[@alemobra5747]

exactly, idk why people expected a movie to not have editing in the vocals

[@kumada84]

Did you ever consider the possibility that the actual problem is actually that people like you think it's acceptable to call things like this "live vocals"? 🤔🤔

[@alemobra5747]

@@kumada84 it is a live vocal, live doesnt mean unedited, every live performance processes vocals to a certain extent, you dont work in the industry do you?

[@MrShagification]

I saw people reacting to this film praising how incredible the REAL HONEST vocals are. And I'm sure they were great, until they messed them up in production. I hope we do get past this era of ultra produced vocal tracks, and just have some pure human voices again soon. Especially for duets... When 2 vocalists are locked perfectly on the grid, exact same pitch to the Hz, it just sounds bad.

[@alemobra5747]

it didnt sound bad, if it did, no one would compliment it, they sounded honest because they were live, live doesnt mean unedited, you still get the exact amount of emoion, pauses and tonality that you had when they recorded the scene, thats what matters.

[@rickrickard2788]

Know what I think, Fil? Until the artists begin suing whoever's doing the corrections, claiming "manipulation of performance", or "attempting to deceive audiences"? None of this will ever change. You, me, or anyone else who see's what's going on, can explain until we're blue in the face- but until those behind this mass manipulation are exposed, and feel the pain of legal, financial drain, I don't think they'll ever stop. The time to end this is now, before it get's any further- Hopefully some of these artists will see what you do, and actually realize the harm, and potential future harm, this kind of deception can & will have.

[@teppo9585]

Thing is, the manipulation of raw truth isn´t confined to just music but its all around. It´s intentional. It´s by design. I don´t think we´re at the point you think we are, that its just started and we need to stop it here. It´s been going on for some time and we´re just started realizing it happening in music through Fil´s contributions. But its everywhere, in science, in history. It´s all lies.

[@paulybarr]

I agree with everything you say, but it occurs to me that pitch correction is regarded as the aural equivalent of colour correction, or 'grading', which is a standard part of post- production- ie all ways to give the movie its final 'polish' or whatever. I've not heard cries of outrage about colour grading.

[@rickrickard2788]

@@paulybarr And the reason for that? It's not coming from an artists point of view- where the TALENT of an individual is being manipulated, so the product being promised, isn't finding it's way to the viewer. Polishing up color, even making a person look better? Is a type of "fraud", but is not a part of the talent being sold to the public, as "all natural" and "their voices". These artists get paid by the public, because they love their voice, emotion, and all that goes into creating the sound & style only THEY can bring forth. When manipulated by a machine, even a little? It is no longer the person you're hearing, but a parson AND a machine- something that was not there, when you first feel in love with an artist enough, you spent your hard-earned dollars to support them. That's the difference as I see it, and just the simple truth of it all. They seek to obfuscate & manipulate- and this is proven? Because they LIE about what's being done, or at best, lie by OMISSION, which is the very same thing.

[@rickrickard2788]

@@teppo9585 It has been around for a long time, you've got that right. I've been talk/warning of this since I got my first home studio, back in the early 2ks. I even had a YT channel. They shut it down. Took, everything. So I never did it again. I keep hoping they won't bother Fil, and I don't think they will- he's' got it down the right way, and knows now, there are pitfalls that must be avoided- something we were clueless about way back then.

[@DAVID-io9nj]

@@paulybarr At one level, that is true. The difference is the emotional weight most people give to the idea of hearing a "LIVE/REAL" performance versus a manufactured studio music track. If you are told this is "LIVE", that should mean something.

[@oneandonlyarajivp]

Personally i think the rule of recording is that a single voice get go through without pitch correction acapella because its not going to clash with anything else. So your brain is happy with it the way it is. But once you bring in another singer, then unless they are both flat and sharp at the same points, we'll hear dissonance when one is flat and the other is sharp and it'd be conflicting, especially if they have tracked the vocals separately to each other. Then, the mixing engineer will have a tough time not only mixing elements that were not recorded together, but he will also have to blend the unpitch-corrected vocals and the music that is on pitch already (most of the orchestral elements might have come from plugins and therefore are pitch perfect, the pianos and syths are pitch perfect, the guitars would definitely have been pitch corrected). So, pitch correction is a necessary evil because everything else is also pitch corrected and this breeds more pitch correction and so on. And because that is what we're fed on as consumer of music, our ears are now too used to the pitch perfection and we can easily hear when one voice is not corrected in the sea of pitch perfection. Unfortunately, there is no going back on this as society. We're doomed to everything being perfect. Its a bit similar to what we see, all the faces and skin are corrected, because we are now used to flawlessness. I've mixed here and there for churches and events and the first thing and essential thing you always add in a vocal track is always pitch correction. It is a necessary evil. On the other side, have a group of people sing, record it and dont pitch correct it and then listen to it via headphones and you'll instantly want to turn it off. The vocals will sound often very amateurish and theatrical but not consumer ready and a mess. I dont mean to offend anyone with this statement, its my personal experience and its the trend i can see everywhere. THe only way to beat this perfection-trend is for singers to practice and practice on their art and then for production houses to make a stand and say that they will intentionally not pitch correct things

[@Rik77]

No one pitch corrects a choral recording in classical music. I think what you're describing is the fact we have got so used to ptch correction in some styles of music that people don't like the natural sound and so it has to be edited. I think that's what you mean. Yet classical music is always recorded without pitch correction. And you say you record events in churches etc, in those cases then surely whoever is paying for the recording wants a live sounding performance? It's not a studio performance so why pitch correct it? Definitely something off there. I'm a classical musician and have been in many video recordings of live performances, they aren't meant to be highly polished studio edits, although that said we do often do a few takes here and there so the best bits can be picked. But no pitch correction would be applied, that would sound awful. But maybe you're talking about more pop styles if music?

[@hotdog1214]

As I understand it in the case of Wicked, they both sang on set and were recorded "as live" rather than re-recording later in a studio. So they would have been singing a duet together and one would hope that they would have practiced enough to have their voices in harmony - as any good duo or group should do. They wouldn't have pitch corrected their individual voices in this instance, at least not on the shared songs. I do agree it is an ever increasing cycle that once you start its like a rolling stone (not the band), one starts the trend and the industry feels compelled to continue. I hope it stops though as I'm still of the opinion that its the imperfections in the human voice that make it unique and gives it a quality like no other instrument that is a delight to the human ear. We want to hear the expression and soul of the singer, not a robot.

[@fizzychizzy]

@@hotdog1214 This shows a clip of that happening. They are standing together and singing LIVE together with bang on sound. This is different than What is this Feeling when for sections of it, they are not in the same place singing together. There is a montage of them being in different places but singing, not being directly beside each other...singing over moving furniture and props and dancers clinking silverware and taping books.

[@kaleighcleveland7897]

That part you said sounded like the chipmunks had given me “take me all the way, Rosanna yeah” hahaha

[@navypinkdesign]

Is it possible that the director meant we would hear what was RECORDED ON SET on the screen rather than songs RECORDED IN A TRADITIONAL STUDIO? In this case, it would NOT be a false statement as you suggest. To me, it sounds like he’s implying “we didn’t put them behind a glass window and put headphones on to sing into a mic.” Nothing more than that. But I appreciate the analysis, just disagree with your criticism and I haven’t even seen the film yet

[@gianmarcogiuli5959]

I was WAITING for this

[@tj2375]

6:12 of course they know. This is just the musical version of top gun maverick marketing saying there's no CGI on the film when all the scenes with planes on it are completely CGI. They know audiences are tired of "artificial" so they do these statements. There's no way a film would use something sung on stage. First because it's filmed on takes not continuously. Second because the audio would be unusable with all the machinery noise. They record the songs in a studio and mix it and use that in the film like they always did since there are talking movies!

[@kelownatechkid]

Exactly. Pointless misguided video lol

[@oliverholland7236]

When they said live i never assumed they meant unedited. I just assumed they meant that the vocals were recorded on the set in costume as opposed to in a studio environment. Basically only difference was where they put the mic.

[@davidadams9391]

It means they recorded it live, then corrected it….

[@Goldun-nah]

The problem is they promoted it as “what you’re hearing is raw vocals”.

[@simplyafederalist]

There is a diffrence between editted and pitch corrected. Edits and mixing is fine pitch correction is not.

[@jenniferhiemstra5228]

@@simplyafederalist Even pitch correction, when used properly, is fine. But it's clearly being overused.

[@simplyafederalist]

@@jenniferhiemstra5228 Disagree unless its a stylistic choice that is very on the forefront. You should never due it. Keep doing takes or get people who can actually carry a tune.

[@glamgal7106]

"Let the great singers' voices be heard and unedited"--Amen to your saying that, Fil! Thanks for your informative analysis and thought-provoking analysis. To answer your question: My guess about film directors' cluelessness about how their own movies sound could be for business purposes--obviously, they have to sell their product. I wonder about business arrangements/contracts with music industry sound engineers. If that's the case, let's say "Wicked" was hit with bad reviews about the sound quality. As you pointed out, the director made a false statement about what audiences would hear. Regardless of his hearing abilities, if "Wicked" got the aforementioned bad reviews, can he go to the sound engineer and say, "What happened that 'Wicked' is getting reviews about poor sound quality?" and take his complaint(s) to higher levels, if possible? Or is the director so completely wound up on profits--like the music industry--that he just doesn't care? Therefore, if ignorance is bliss, the director--as well as all involved in the film's money--making machine--are happy not knowing what goes on behind the scenes. These are all guesses on my part, for what they're worth--you DID have me thinking! Many thanks for all you do, Fil. Cheers!

[@russshaber8071]

Fil Hendley, Data analyst, musician, Grammy Award Winner (I printed it myself), and a Bagginns. Just to clarify A4 = 440 Hz equal temperament is a frequency measurement system that ensures that every interval between two notes has the same basic harmonic qualities. Back to the show.

[@spellbinders_of_suspense]

This is an epidemic across multiple media formats. To me it’s about authenticity and preserving history. I can’t watch the original Stars Wars as it appeared in theaters unless I dig out a laserdisc bootleg copy. If I watch Star Trek OS on MEtv, it’s the CGI enhanced version not the original as it was first broadcast. Authenticity is a rare commodity now and all forms of media are in dire need of proper preservation and disclosure.

[@ThisGuyDude]

The beautiful thing about your videos is that you point out that either the artists and the producers and directors must be part of the scam, or they are being duped and are ignorant. Which is it? Artists, your silence is deafening.

[@MM62442]

I bet they all sign NDA over this. That's why no one on the inside speaks up.

[@L1623VP]

The producers are probably unaware, but I find it hard to believe that the directors of films don't know this is going on in their own movies.

[@Gradgirl]

@@L1623VPOr the artist themselves. How can they not recognize their natural voices from a produced version of their voices?

[@L1623VP]

@@Gradgirl True. The sound engineers are getting their orders from someone, and the artists aren't complaining about the final product, so it seems they're all in on it. They're getting paid so much money, they don't care.

[@PeterNiallLancaster]

@@ThisGuyDude I presume it is being dictated by the record companies that release the music. They don't think anything will sell to a young audience unless it sounds modern, which to them means obvious pitch correction.

[@fredlyndalu]

Merry Christmas Fin and everyone else. Rock

[@joeflip2993]

Merry Christmas to you as well✌️🤟🤘

[@fredlyndalu]

@ thank you. Have a great time with your friends and family.

[@ricardomlp]

Merry Christmas from São Paulo, Brazil!

[@fredlyndalu]

@@ricardomlp thanks. Enjoy the holiday. We have 4 inches of snow and I suppose you don’t, lol.

[@alessandrosmartins]

I'm starting to like when I watch a live performance and I can hear some imperfections. I thought Lara Fabian was loosing ability while aging, now I'm thinking the she is just not using pitch correction like most of the artists. Do Beyoncé and Gaga use pitch correction live?

[@MostlyBuicks]

WAAAYYYYY before autotune and pitch correction, Elvis would get an acetate of the recording session, the sound he APPROVED of. Then those recordings were manipulated for "production parts". Elvis would get those tapes. And it often pissed him off that it did not match the acetates Elvis approved of. And back when Elvis actually cared, he forced RCA to return the production parts to match the acetates he approved of. The recording industry is NOT concerned about reproducing a natural sound. They want to make recordings sound like a product. And whatever the trend is, they adopt that trend industry wide. Now that trend includes pitch correction and lockstep timing. I have ALWAYS preferred dry recordings. But they are very rare.

[@jadenamber8378]

I think the pop association with Ariana especially conditions us to want to hear her produced this way. What would be interesting is to see you compare the Broadway "Wicked" album vocals to the movie album. Not only are the venues different but so are our expectations in how we want our vocals to sound from when the stage soundtrack was released nearly 20 years ago. And of course calibrating tools have become a lot more sophisticated.

[@itaialter]

Sounds like they had a really good time on set. It's too bad we aren't included in the original fun.

[@nicomakian1290]

Thank you for this analysis! I'm hoping that one day you'll do an analysis of NPR's Tiny Desk series because there have been a ton of artists featured on it and some of them sound too good to be true ;)

[@Crowftzy]

It is really a shame. I would have loved to hear the un-autotuned recorded voices while watching the movie! Because it really DID make the acting soooo much better, that the actresses were able to sing live during filming instead of lipsyncing to their prerecorded voices. Too sad postproduction ruined the real brilliant potential of that huge project. Thanks for the Analysis, Fil, I love your videos and always learn a lot ❤

[@DerClaudius]

I understand it's problematic to claim unedited if its edited.. but you said they sound pitch-perfect in the unedited singing... wouldn't this imply you can't hear the pitch correction? Because afterwards they still sound pitch-perfect.. so where's the harm for such good base material that gets corrected so little that it's not obvious and you need to measure it to even detect it?

[@elizabethmiller7291]

Why would you wish to take away the human elements - expression, uniqueness, personality - of a human voice and mechanically change it into something less than it was? It just makes no sense.

[@denisenoles3159]

​@elizabethmiller7291 But does it mess up the experience for you? Before all of these vocal coach videos, were you sitting around analyzing if a song was pitch corrected? Or are you a vocal coach?

[@elizabethmiller7291]

@@denisenoles3159 Ignorance is bliss. I have discovered just how apt that phrase is since learning about what has been happening over the course of the last quarter century and what has solidly become music industry standard. The point you make here is a very salient one. Yes, this knowledge has definitely messed up the enjoyment and pleasure I would normally take from listening to an official recording or being at an ostensibly live performance or watching a musical. Because, now, I am left wondering about what I am hearing. Am I hearing the best version of a great singer's voice (that is to say, the unedited by digital pitch-"correction" voice) or am I only being allowed to hear a less than best version of a great singer's voice because someone has decided to apply pitch correction and destroy the best version of a great singer's voice. Why should we have to settle for second best when we listen to a great singer's voice? Before I stumbled onto this important channel, I assumed that what I was hearing was the singer's natural, unedited by pitch-correction/Auto-Tune live voice. The problem I wasn't aware of is that regardless of how good it sounded to me, I was nevertheless missing out on hearing the best version if it was pitch-"corrected", even minimally. In other words, I may have been settling for second best without even knowing it! Do you see where I'm coming from?

[@denisenoles3159]

@elizabethmiller7291 I understand where you are coming from. I didn't phrase my questions properly. Before you heard about the pitch correction phenomenon, did it mess up your experience? When you listen to the recordings, do they sound horrible to you? Do you feel like you are listening to garbage? Why bother listening to music if you feel the need to critique incessantly and wonder if it was pitch corrected. That makes no sense to me. I would stop listening to music if I couldn't just enjoy it for what it was considering that these vocal coaches are saying it happens ALL OF THE TIME. We have heard Cynthia and Arianna sing live in many other instances. They both can sing their asses off. The only way the experience would be messed up for me is if I thought someone could really sing, and then I heard them live and realized autotune or some studio wizardry manipulated their voices to sound good. Again, I don't condone the process but I have noticed that people who do not like Cynthia (and other singers) are using these videos to say, "See, she can't sing live. She is overrated." Propaganda at its finest. I am not trying to argue because I understand your perspective. I just see the bigger picture on this one.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

@@denisenoles3159 I think we may be seeing two different 'bigger pictures'. My bottom line is that pitch correction and Auto-Tune live are destructive technologies when applied to the voices of great singers. Because they don't enhance a great singer's voice, they take away some of all of what makes a great singer's voice great in the first place. The questions you are asking aren't the right ones. I would ask what gives a producer or sound engineer the right to say what I am allowed to listen to? Why should real music lovers like me be deprived of hearing the very best? The bigger picture is that if we choose to settle for second best in the music we listen to, then we have lost the fight to save authentic music and real, raw and visceral human vocals from oblivion and we will then live in a heavy-handed pitch-corrected/autotuned world where only computer-generated, robotic-sounding voices - devoid of all of the human personality, uniqueness, expression and emotional storytelling capacity - will be available for our enjoyment and pleasure. That may be just fine for some folks. But, it will be a very sad world for the rest of us.

[@DinkyInky2]

I got into so many arguments with people because I didn't have an emotional connection to the vocals here as opposed to seeing it live in Chicago, or hearing Idina Menzel's Broadway performance soundtrack. They took beautiful vocalists, and corrected all of what made it beautiful out. I just cannot bring myself to see it in the theatre because I am not connecting with the vocals I've heard so far. They defended it because they cannot hear it. You've basically confirmed what I was certain to be happening to cause this. I'd be curious to hear your analysis of the Broadway soundtrack now, because I couldn't detect any corrections, though folks said it did occur in that as well.

[@Juttutin]

Regrettably, there is going to have to be a court case and a judicial ruling on what exactly 'live' means wrt the line between 'direct analogue' and 'entirely modified' in the context of digital post-processing. Even if the decision is that per-note adjustments to pitch and timing still qualifies as 'live', at least then everyone will know for certain "live" is just a meaningless marketing term. My definition would be that 'live' allows for things analogous to legacy analogue-processing (filters, echos; compression, etc) but definitely NOT any per-note or inter-note specific adjustments. I'm not sure what I think about splicing together a track from multiple live takes… Does that count as "live" on a published recording? Does that change if the audio is released with a live performance video?

[@Spo-Dee-O-Dee]

I believe these matters were litigated years ago. When Milli Vanill was sued it was solely with regard to the recordings. That the settlement included refunds for the concerts was a means of diluting the settlement pool.

[@universalassociates6857]

Need more Chipmunk references. Like need more cowbell.

[@keithrichardson6836]

They should have got the wizard to banish pitch correction

[@Lilah1754]

Yes, he could do that! 😆

[@alemobra5747]

pitch correction has been industry standard since the 2000s... why would they banish it for one movie lmfao

[@RainerK.]

The question should actually be whether there is still music being made without any tampering.

[@lisavargo5882]

Hoping this trend doesn't hit live musicals in the theatre. Going to see Neil Diamond, a beautiful sound in April here in the U.S. and I just hope it is a beautiful sound. I wish we didn't have to question these things.

[@rebymunster]

I have a theory that the reason many people say they don’t like musicals it’s because we’ve pitch corrected singers emotion OUT of every song for the last several decades now

[@streetdrummersinc4387]

Always worth a listen,thanks.

[@ladysarah1985]

I could not figure out why I wasn’t crying at songs that have always made me cry. I was truly enjoying the performances, but I couldn’t quite get to the level of emotion that I’m used to. The only part of the whole movie that deeply affected me had no singing whatsoever. It really is a shame.

[@universalassociates6857]

Many women may decide not to go out without makeup so they can look their best even when they already have natural beauty. Music and movie producers have evidently decided not to let their artists be heard without putting on pitch correction.

[@Attmay]

This is the musical equivalent of those lip filters that make you look like a bee stung your lips.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

Bad analogy. Make-up is like vocal effects being applied to ENHANCE a vocal. Pitch correction actually CHANGES the vocal as in plastic surgery to change your face.

[@Rik77]

And that is why we need to demand better, because this is ignorance. They might think its like putting on your best make up, but it isn't, it is ruining a voice. But they'll keep doing it if people don't care, and maybe they don't care.

[@elizabethmiller7291]

@@Rik77 They must be made to care! :)

[@StarSeeker1]

I highly recommend people look up these two singing "There Can Be Miracles" live together (I think it was at the MET gala?) because they truly harmonize and bounce off each other beautifully without any editing

[@macmachine]

Saw it this week and as an old studiophile I was disappointed in the vocals. I know the ladies are phenomenal vocalists but the whole thing sounded flat. Maybe now I know why.

[@boyonceknowles]

i’m starting to think people may not know what a harmony is 😭 cause yall say it sounds weird everytime two people harmonize lmao

[@davidp4864]

Movie musicals sound best when the actors lip sync to their own studio recorded vocals. Les Mis is a perfect example of a live sung fail.

[@michaelgeorgopulos8531]

Now that the movie is out, I can confidently say the spotify release is an entirely different vocal performance than what is played in the movie. Are the vocals still processed? Of course, it's industry standard. But I think their claims of recording on set are entirely turthful and the performances are astounding.

[@ddjr6673]

The most annoying thing is that as you say, both Ariana and Cynthia have terrific voices and bundles of talent - in fact even with pitch correction I was particularly impressed by Ariana Grande - I have sung classical live music all my life. Pitch correction removes so much humanity - such a shame - I would love to have heard the ‘real’ thing. Exactly as you say, ‘trust me they would not have needed editing’ SO true.