How can God be all good if most people go to hell - Theodicy by G. W. Leibniz (Summary+Review)

[@Ed.Andrade_]

Great review. I would love for channels like yours to exist in Portuguese, in my country few people speak English fluently. I feel privileged to be able to speak English and have access to such good content. Watching from Brazil 🇧🇷

[@BiblicalBookworm]

Let us pray that God calls such Portuguese channels into exitence! 🙏

[@Ed.Andrade_]

@@BiblicalBookworm Yes, there are excellent channels with great priests and scholars. Brazil is the country with the largest number of Catholics in the world and we have great scholars on the subject but I miss a channel exclusively dedicated to reviews that has as much quality as your channel.

[@BiblicalBookworm]

@@Ed.Andrade_ hmmm I see. The thing is that reviewing Catholic/Christian books is very very niche (even in English) so its understandable that this doesn't exist in other languages 😕

[@Ed.Andrade_]

@@BiblicalBookworm Yes, thank you for your dedication in making the reviews. They are very good and I'm sure they can help a lot of people. God bless you 🙏🏻

[@BiblicalBookworm]

@@Ed.Andrade_ thank you! God bless you too!

[@hephaestusfortarier249]

I love Leibniz, the child prodigy polymath like Blaise Pascal. I have always had an interest in the topic of geniuses. One many don’t know who was a Christian was a man named Leonhard Euler, imo the greatest mathematician to ever live. He wrote “A defense of the revelation against the objections of freethinkers.” These great minds who were no doubt child prodigy and genius had faith in Christ, which strengthens my faith.

[@hephaestusfortarier249]

scholarlycommons.pacific.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?filename=0&article=1091&context=euler-works&type=additional

[@BiblicalBookworm]

I've been also always fascinated by geniuses! I didn't know that Euler was a Christian, thanks for sharing!

[@hephaestusfortarier249]

@@BiblicalBookworm scholarlycommons.pacific.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?filename=0&article=1091&context=euler-works&type=additional

[@shinywarm6906]

Imagine you were a natural philosopher living in 1708. You want to understand combustion and oxidation. You start from some basic premises. Premise 1: We know that phlogiston exists. Premise 2. We know it is released when anything burns or oxidises. Conclusion: Therefore everything that combusts or oxidises must release phlogiston. To your consternation, however, you find that many substances actually *gain* weight when they burn. And that combustion soon ceases when it takes place in an enclosed space. You now have a choice. You can either come up with elaborate hypotheses to defend your syllogism - for instance, that air has only a limited capacity to absorb phlogiston. Or you question your premises, accept that phlogiston does not exist, and go on to discover oxygen.

[@pepetono72]

Great book review Elizabeth, thank you for sharing God bless you 🙏

[@BiblicalBookworm]

Glad you liked it, God bless you too Mr. Alvarez!

[@pepetono72]

@@BiblicalBookworm Thank you Elizabeth 😊

[@El-Rad]

Great job Elisabeth, fantastic video as usual, I hope your Lent is going well and God bless you!

[@BiblicalBookworm]

I happy you liked it! God bless you too!

[@El-Rad]

Id love another video on the deductions of the other attributes of God, go for it Elisabeth you're great.

[@pelawren]

Thank You for digging the insights for us😄 Kindly consider re-writing the book in a structured fashion and complementing it with insights from the other books you have read

[@BiblicalBookworm]

You're welcome! 😄 We'll see, maybe someone else wants to volunteer, right now I'm really happy that I finished the book because I didn't enjoy the reading experience too much hahahah

[@pelawren]

@@BiblicalBookworm 🤣

[@sakanablesakanable]

Your consistency is commendable!

[@BiblicalBookworm]

Thank you!

[@AlgyPug]

Makes one thankful that it is unlikely that such a God exists.

[@cardboardcapeii4286]

He does exist 100%

[@davidkupiec]

Unfortunately, if you believe in the gospel, then he does exist. And has a right to send us to hell for our wickedness if we reject his grace.

[@AlgyPug]

@@davidkupiec Fortunately, I don't believe in the gospel. Jesus is reported as saying that he would return while some his disciples were still alive. However, 2000 years later, we are still waiting. Furthermore, Hell - and Heaven - appear to be fictional. I see no evidence to sugges that the universe is a moral obstacle course presided over by a cosmic Kim Jong Un.

[@marajevomanash]

Engineering 101 for Creator: You do not limit your display of superior engineering prowess and your ability to devise solutions to humanly impossible engineering problems just because morality gets in the way. Before you begin, you keep your original morality locked and preserved in a safe location. You design a robust closed system that does not change its original properties no matter what happens.

[@franciscowalker5104]

Dear Elizabeth Vielen Dank

[@robertmontoya8915]

Sounds like a bang. You were very clever in this video I noticed Elisabeth. I enjoyed this.

[@BiblicalBookworm]

Thank you!

[@SimonDaumMusic]

I think there are several issues to the topic. First of all, what is hell? The concept of hell as we define it today is not even found in the Old Testament, and Jesus himself teaches three different versions of hell in three places that cant be harmonized together.. That means, there is room for speculation on how things will eventually and everlastinly turn out. We see and know excactly where and how the concept of hell evolved, and once we see that, we dont just see the Christian view being heavily influenced by other nations, even pagans, but we also see how it evolved over time amongst the Christians themselves. Second, God himself promised that it is HIS desire for "ALL to be saved". If literally most of mankind will end up in hell, God either lacks the power, the desire, or both to keep his promises. But if we are to believe in Gods promise, then the thing we have to accept is that God literally is not a respecter of persons. If therefore people are born into an environment without any access to God, or to little children not being baptized, having them end up in hell would all mean God is not capable to keep his promises. Third, if we allow ourselves to let the experiences of NDEs into our existence, then we see that there are some people that are told there is a hell, but the majority is explained there is no hell. Fourth, the question needs to be asked, how can God, being perfect himself, create mere human fathers and mothers that would not rather end up in hell themselves, if that could spare their own children from hell. If mere humans are capable to sacrifice all they are and have to spare their children from death. Can it really be that mere humans are in posession of greater forgiveness, greater sefllessness than God himself? Fifth, how much love and devotion can arise out of the idea of a hell? How can people truly love someone or something that threatens them if they dont bing forth that love? I see this all over with my kids. When they do stuff I dont want them to do, being loud, being angry, never really causes any good. On the other hand, always remainig calm, kind and as Paul describes charity, brings the greatest, most sincere and lasting change and effect. It seems that concepts such as hell are great tools to controle people, but they hardly bring people unto Christ for the right reasons. Sixth, how come God doesnt live up to his own standart then? In the Bible we read that what will triumph over Gods judgements (hell) is the amount of mercy we bring forth. How merciful we are, will be how merciful we will be treated.. If we are to believe this, how can people end up in hell if all others brought forth mercy towards the one being sent to hell? How come God would ignore all that and even worse, himself lack that kind of mercy he requires from us? I think Jesus thaught some vital lessons, so also with the good Samaritan.. Though he lacked faith, though he didnt get the scriptures right, though he worshipped God in the false manner, Jesus still considered him to be good, because of his sincere mercy and charity.. Its the Bible itself that also teaches that eventually, even hell will be thrown in that pit to be destroyed. I guess my point is, yes, we better live Christlike lifes, but not because mayby there is a hell, or because we are sure there is a hell.. How sincere can that kind of love and devotion be? But if we choose to follow Christ, then simply because we have been touched by the divine, and not because we fear punishment. Personally, after all I have studied about the Bible, do I not believe we have a clear concept on hell. Rather do we see how the concept is heavily infleuenced by secular and manmade reasons. Jesus was right, as below, so above. If we dont want to end up in hell on the other side, lets create heaven right here right now. Too many people waste their time pondering, fearing and thinking about things thy dont even know are real.. What matters, I guess, is literally the here and now, since that will be our tomorrow.

[@markgallemore8856]

Imagine God is perfect. God is the essence of perfection that God cannot lack. In this scenario, the gods described could not be perfect if there was any lacking.. for those who assert that the God that they believe in is perfect with that God created us he didn’t have us therefore, under this scenario couldn’t have been perfect.

[@markbrown6978]

Hope beyond Hell by Gerry Beauchemin very helpful

[@BiblicalBookworm]

Thank you for the recommendation!

[@Dannydreadlord]

Does this youtube creator represent an average Christian? Watching a couple of videos from this creator, I am convinced that she (or her type of a theist) is the future of theists in this world. People using certain aspects of our modern understanding of how things work to bolster their faith (completly ignoring objections to their flawed proces). It is unfortunate that this is the limit to our species as a whole and education has very limited scope to improve critical thinking in our species.

[@BiblicalBookworm]

Which objections am I ignoring? Either way, this video is simply a summary of the book "Theodicy" from 1710. So the arguments presented in the video are not modern.

[@Dannydreadlord]

@@BiblicalBookworm Well for starters, lets talk about "a good god creating the best possible world". Has the Mathmetician-Philosopher considerd all the possibilities of the best possible worlds, I can think of one possibility (this is not my original idea, I borrowed it from a youtuber named Tjump. I would suggest you to go through some of his discussions with theists & philosophers on different subjects) a best possible world contender would be a world where "Involuntry imposition on will of a being (any being) is not permitted, even God is not allowed to impose his will on any beings without the express approval from the being".

[@chriswest8389]

I’m sure moral philosophers who 2/3s are sceptics, have considered these arguments and found them wanting.

[@darkma1ice]

The way I see it is that without the righteousness, justice, love and truth of God, there can only be misery, pain and suffering. So when Jesus comes back the people that rejected him, he will reject them.

[@BiblicalBookworm]

Beautifully said!

[@johnmonk3381]

what are you talking about?? There are already misery, pain, and suffering all around regardless. Are you blind to all this? The horrors of the gaza and ukraine wars. Atrocities that didn't need to be there yet this "god" allowed it and does absolutely NOTHING! Then all of sudden, when these people die, he gets all interested to want to punish them for their alleged "sins"! If he couldn't be bothered with the living, why the hell would he bother with the dead?? You are just as a hypocrite as this god!

[@simonjohnson3106]

So according to the fewness of the saved theory 98.5% of Japanese people are going to suffer in hell for all eternity?! I can't believe that is true. Btw I really enjoy your channel Elizabeth. Thank you and keep up the good work.🙂👍

[@BiblicalBookworm]

As I mentioned in the video we don't know how many people will be saved, so there is hope the fewness of the saved is wrong. I'm glad you like my channel! 😊

[@leoncaruthers]

Not just Japanese, everyone. It's been a while since I listened to it and had my hope destroyed, but I think he only had 5 out of a hundred practicing Catholics making the cut, and most of them went to Purgatory.

[@BiblicalBookworm]

@@leoncaruthers no reason to stop hoping! With God's grace everything is possible, we just need to humbly ask for it! 🤗

[@leoncaruthers]

@@BiblicalBookworm I've asked for hope many times since I first heard that sermon. Never comes, I just find new reasons for despair.

[@BiblicalBookworm]

@@leoncaruthers I am sorry to hear your experience! Hope doesn't have to be a feeling. The experience of saints with their dark nights of the soul teaches us that sometimes we don't feel any positive feeling regarding God etc. But that doesn't hinder us from becoming saints. Rationally speaking, God loves you and will give you every necessary grace if you only ask for it. You don't have to feel hope, its enough to know that there is no reason to despair🌹

[@gruesomeduck6126]

With the animal suffering section, if all suffering are not to be seen of their imminent significance and hence the hatred towards evil being done by people or happen, then why should there even be a motivation to do good and obey God? Doesn't this do away with not committing evils of any kind? Hence making doing any evil justifiable, if there are supposed to be some unseen, unacknowledgeable greater good that comes out of that evil that we mere humans cannot fathom or comprehend, hence, people can then shatter all bones in the body of a person, then claim that it's part of God's greater plan that they cannot have ever perceived, and that it serves an even greater good hence not only had he need to shatter the other guy's bones, but also truly see to it and commit and believe that the greater plan is yet to come?

[@AnonymousViewer1000]

The first "a" in "acid" and "Adam" are short vowel sound "a"s just as the second "a" in "Adam" is a short "a". Another example would be "hate" has a long "a", but "hat" has a short "a".

[@BiblicalBookworm]

Thank you! I noticed that when editing 🙈 Whenever you find any other mistakes please feel free to tell me!

[@AnonymousViewer1000]

@@BiblicalBookworm Your English is amazing. I love that you are open to feedback. In the future, if you are reviewing a book written in German, it would be nice to hear you quote part of it in German just so that we can get a glimpse of you speaking as you normally do.

[@BiblicalBookworm]

@@AnonymousViewer1000 my voice would probably sound very strange to you in German 😂 The Theodicy was written in French btw (a foreign language for Leibniz). I read it in German

[@AnonymousViewer1000]

@@BiblicalBookworm I agree with the point that you made in your first sentence. We often get to see that effect when an actor is interviewed on television and speaks in his/her real voice and accent which are different from what he/she uses on his television show. I always like to see and appreciate as much as I can of the real person in any role in life for ethical reasons based on Kantian ethics which contribute to my ethical perspective and behaviour as a Christian. Immanuel Kant wrote about the "kingdom of ends" where each person should be regarded and treated as an end in him-/herself and not just as a means to an end. In other words, no person is just a tool that performs a service. Each person, such as all the service people with whom we interact thoughtlessly, is a full person and should be treated as such. This is why I encouraged you to share more about yourself in a previous comment.

[@AnonymousViewer1000]

In your case, I often wonder how such a holy person is living her life. I look to the lives of other Christians (and not just the great saints) for inspiration. You have probably read Kant in German, lol.

[@gregw74]

If a third of the angels are in hell and they had “perfect insight” into the will of God, I can’t see how the majority of people won’t also be saved, given how deeply imperfect, broken, and veiled our intellect and will is relative to God’s will. Also, how much suffering has been offered up to God, by at least Catholics for sinners and unbelievers and how many countless prayers, rosaries, and novenas have been offered up for this same reason, all in an appeal to Christ’s “infinite mercy”. If less than 1% of humans are saved (based on the math) then either the odds were stacked against us from day one and/or God is not merciful; this if even less than 50% are saved… then the devil has one the fight. Also, the saints aren’t infallible, the Church is, and thus I’m not inclined to believe those who think most will be damned, especially those who feel it’s closer to 99%. If so, this isn’t infinite mercy but cruelty and infinite justice. This is not the hallmark of a loving God but an unmerciful one.

[@BiblicalBookworm]

Yes, saints are fallible so St. Leonard and others could be wrong! However, even if 99% of people went to hell that would not contradict God's goodness as Leibniz explains.

[@gregw74]

@@BiblicalBookworm Right. According to “his” opinion and how “he” understands God’s goodness. There is nothing objective about this understanding of his. Personally, I find this opinion that God can still be considered good even though 99% of humans are in hell to be disgusting and incredibly toxic. This would not be an expression of a good God but one that genuinely doesn’t care about his creation and/or one who held us to a standard that was too high to be met; again, pure justice and no mercy. Such a “god”as this is worthy of our worship, I think not. I guess it’s good we don’t know how many souls are in hell. Also, I realize the path may be wide to hell but that doesn’t mean there isn’t mercy offered to those who may have deserved this end for themselves. After all, Jesus does speak of forgiveness in this age or the age to come. Christ also taught there would be those who are saved despite their ignorance of God’s will. In addition to what I mentioned earlier, it just doesn’t add up for me.

[@davidkupiec]

@gregw74, I am with you. The more I think about this stuff, the more I doubt God's goodness. It sometimes gets to the point that I wish I was never born, or at least God gave me the opportunity to cease existing forever.

[@ayo.p.johnson]

This is great❤

[@BiblicalBookworm]

🙏

[@Scb30476]

Yay another video !!!

[@BiblicalBookworm]

🤗

[@changedlife1904]

Honest question here ? What is church teachings on going to hell on thoughts alone not actions .......

[@davidkupiec]

Thoughts can be sinful, to the point of mortal sin, which would cut us off completely from God's sanctifying grace. "He who has listed within their hearts has already signed". There are also sins for inaction, for example, neglecting your duties in life or rejecting doing God's will, which can also lead to loss of grace.

[@changedlife1904]

@@davidkupiec ok makes total sence actually , thanks , there's so much to our faith , I've heard of "catholic guilt" and as I dive deeper into the faith it gets alot more interesting. And the funny part is what the saints talk about as we progress faithfully is actually visible in the heart .....thanks

[@GovtWatchdog]

I witnessed demonic activity firsthand, though I wasn’t the one who invoked it and would NEVER do so. Nevertheless, I know that almighty God exists because I know with 100% certainty that supernatural evil exists. Demons are real and they are here with us unfortunately. Folks, please take my word for it and never doubt God’s existence. This very scary demonic exposure I witnessed will forever serve as solid proof to me of God’s awesome existence.

[@lorelei1782]

I’m curious if you ever saw a secular therapist or psychiatrist/psychologist over these demonic experiences?

[@BiblicalBookworm]

Anthony De Stefano writes in his book on hell that evil is often the strongest and most visible indicator of the supernatural. Thank you for sharing!

[@GovtWatchdog]

@@lorelei1782 No, but it was my ex-girlfriend’s sister’s boyfriend who caused it to happen. It was just one occurrence that I knew of. I believe he was into sorcery because he somehow knew how to summon the demonic. Very scary but very real, and I NEVER want to experience something like that again. I do, however, consider it a huge blessing from God that He allowed me such undeniable proof, though I’ll admit I was scared to the core. Whenever I feel that my faith is low I always go back to that night and my faith is immediately restored.

[@marajevomanash]

Same here.

[@mpasaa]

All these 'high intellectual arguments' reminds me of the movie NEFARIOUS when the convicted murderer said to the psychiatrist "sometimes smart people have a hard time believing what everybody else already knows".... it's funny how so many people fight so hard to NOT BELIEVE HELL EXISTS it confirms for me the devil is real and this is his greatest lie and trick upon us....

[@BiblicalBookworm]

Very true!

[@JamesDirette]

Yes. Being able to THINK is so nefarious. I feel so sad for every child traumatized (as i was) to fear this heinous view of God. Never feeling safe. Complete and utter abuse.

[@BuddyLee23]

I am one of those rare nontheists who very much believes that we do inhabit the best of all possible worlds.

[@phoenixaz8431]

Silly. Cancer, sex trafficking, drama, wars, hunger, abject poverty, hundreds of MILLIONS of abortions worldwide over decades, roughly one million people commit suicide every year world-wide.

[@phoenixaz8431]

Not saying science can explain God, far from it, but in science, you start with a hypothesis and you try to either validate or invalidate it through a series of experiments. Starting with a predetermined conclusion is *antithetical* to science. We consistently apply that principle in life. If you always assume that everyone you meet is *de facto* a good and well-meaning person, you'll be wrong in a majority of cases. The same should apply to God. If you start with the assumption that he is good, you paint yoursels in a corner and need to come up with absurd rationalizations to explain away *evidence* that he is not good. A god who does not take decisive steps to *maximize* the number of saved and *minimize* the number of damned is NOT good, period. If 90% of students *year in and year out* fail a class, either the subject matter is too difficult and/or the teacher sucks. I don't get how people do not understand that *this* isn't the only possible reality, i.e. God could have set up things very differently. If I see childen with shabby clothes, rotten teeth, who are emaciated and looking dead and miserable, I *KNOW* their father doesn't love them and that in every decision, he chooses himself over his children. Idem with God. If I doubt that God loves me, someone will point to the crucifixion, a one-off event, not eevn donet for me specifically but for BILLIONS. In my example, what if the father had done *one* decisively good thing *once* for his children, would that be enough to conclude that he loves them? It is unfortunate, but God is all about himself. He creates us to be his slaves. If we refuse, he is very gracious, he doesn't punish us on the spot, but he has an eternity of misery prepared for us. If I adopt puppies *expecting* them to be able to do something only 10% will do, do you think I'm good and sane?

[@markgallemore8856]

I’m not gonna grant you any presuppositions. You need to demonstrate every aspect of your claim.. define saved. And then empirically demonstrate how that supposed to work. Claims and assertions aren’t good enough. My book says isn’t good enough.

[@AveMaria1917]

Dear St. Gertrude, I simply ask for her, please ask of God that she goes to heaven 🌹⚕️❤️‍🔥 ... God is so good, you just need to ask

[@BiblicalBookworm]

Amen!

[@mikearchibald744]

Has anybody ever defined 'good'? For example, IF heaven is eternal then the farging horrible things that god does in the OT are 'explainable' by the fact of heaven, much in the same way we could state that scaring a child from playing in traffic 'saves them' in the long run. Its a pretty spurious argument thought, can the OT god in ANY way be thought to be 'good'? HE if farging horrible, NOBODY would 'want' to pray to such a god unless they were terrified, the same way a beaten dog may cling to its owner. But most of that is kind of drunken pointless argumentation. "All good" doesn't even make sense. I want to BE god, I dont' want to 'follow' god or obey him or praise him, screw that. And its god that keeps me from that, so how can that be 'good'? Evil certainly results from choices. There are thoughts we 'just don't know'. How come some of those thoughts are not 'how to do evil'? And the fact that we ALL agree that 'wood' exists and we take it for granted, then it seems odd that 'god' cant be as obvious.

[@cardboardcapeii4286]

I believe what Jesus and St Leonard of Port Maurice said man

[@EliHirsch-sl8cm]

@BiblicalBookworm in my view this insufficient because it is easy to find a better creation then this world. This would be if God didn't make any creation of this world. If you would have 10 children and one would have everlasting eternal pleasure and the nine other would have eternal suffering even if it would be becuase of their sin) you would not have children, so we know the most moral creation would be no world. If there is a world, therefore the God of your description couldn't make it.

[@thegreatgazoo7579]

Interesting how the same person can be smart enough to invent calculus, but stupid enough to make stupid arguments about God. For example, trying to claim that animals do not suffer because they aren't smart enough to be miserable that they are suffering.

[@BiblicalBookworm]

I think he didn't mean not smart enough but he meant that animals don't have a consciousness

[@thegreatgazoo7579]

@@BiblicalBookworm He clearly never owned a dog. Especially not a dog that loved him and was bonded to him.

[@dan_m7774]

God is Good, Man chooses not to be. Suffering brings a good.

[@markgallemore8856]

No, you can’t conclude because the premise is flawed. The fact is that nobody knows and you don’t just get to make up whatever you want. Crap argument.