How Christians Just Make Stuff up About Hell

[@Neceros]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:00 🕊️ *Introduction to the topic of hell and personal experiences with family posting about it on social media.* - Discussion on how some family members use vivid imagery to depict hell and share it online. - Emphasis on the absence of factual reasons to believe in hell. 01:22 🔥 *Critique of Mike Winger's approach to justifying hell and his use of hypothetical possibilities.* - Mike Winger's attempt to justify hell by inventing hypothetical scenarios is highlighted. - Criticism of addressing the topic of torturing people without expressing concern for its moral implications. - Mention of Winger's approach of making up things about hell. 02:34 📖 *Examination of the claim that not everyone gets the same punishment in hell.* - Mike Winger's reference to Bible verses discussing different levels of punishment for individuals. - Reflection on the surprising aspect of diverse punishments contradicting the traditional Christian doctrine of uniform eternal torment. - Recognition of the impact on core Christian doctrines due to variations in hell punishments. 05:08 🔄 *Exploration of the idea of sinning in hell and the concept of eternal crimes.* - Mike Winger's argument that people can continue sinning in hell is addressed. - Critique of the notion that individuals can maintain sinful thoughts while being eternally tormented. - Reflection on the inconsistency and lack of curiosity in Mike Winger's approach to understanding human behavior in hell. 07:28 ⏰ *Discussion on whether people stop sinning in hell and evaluation of the duration of hell.* - Reflection on the assumption that individuals cease to sin once in hell. - Criticism of the idea that the length of hell is static and questioning the basis for such assumptions. - Highlighting the lack of clarity and inconsistency in biblical descriptions of hell's nature and duration. 09:34 😇 *Examination of the claim that individuals become holier in hell.* - Critique of Mike Winger's argument that people do not become holy in hell. - Expressing skepticism about the feasibility of individuals being conscious and committing sins while being tormented. - Reflection on the lack of thought given to the practical aspects of the argument. 12:50 🌐 *Questioning the assumption of hell as a static experience and exploring alternative perspectives.* - Mike Winger's exploration of the static nature of hell is questioned. - Emphasis on the need to avoid making assumptions about hell based on incomplete or inconsistent biblical descriptions. - Critique of Mike Winger's wavering stance on making assumptions. 15:37 💬 *Discussion on the severity of sin and the perception of its gravity.* - Mike Winger's argument that sin is worse than people realize is examined. - Reflection on biblical examples of individuals not realizing the gravity of their sins. - Skepticism regarding the interpretive nature of biblical narratives about sin. 18:25 🤔 *Reflection on the Prophet Jeremiah's account of people not recognizing the severity of their sins.* - Mike Winger's use of Jeremiah 6:15 to illustrate people's lack of awareness of the severity of sin. - Suggestion that the Prophet's frustration might be rooted in personal motives rather than divine revelation. - Acknowledgment of the uncertainty and inconsistency in biblical descriptions of sin and its consequences. 18:52 🔍 *Understanding Punishment in Christianity* - Punishment in Christianity serves to strip away calluses and reveal the severity of sin. - Calluses can develop from repetitive guilt-inducing behavior that may not be inherently wrong. - Two reasons for calluses: actions wrongly labeled as sinful and rationalizing harm to others. 26:18 🤔 *Hell as Consequence, Not Just Punishment* - Hell can be viewed as a consequence, linked to punishment but not solely punitive. - Analogy: Divorce as a consequence for severe, unrepentant behavior. - Critique: Analogies to divorce lack relevance to God's relationship with humans. 30:30 🤷‍♂️ *Uncertainties and Open Questions about Hell* - Acknowledgment that there are aspects about hell that are not fully known. - Mention of the possibility of annihilationism or conditional immortality. - Expresses discomfort with the idea of willfully keeping someone alive for the purpose of hurting them. 34:18 🚫 *Rejecting God's Judgment* - People in hell, in some sense, may not want God or heaven's fullness. - Suggests that the rejection of God's judgment is a personal choice. - Raises questions about determining someone's eternal posture based on their actions on Earth. 35:41 🙏 *Trusting God's Judgment Despite Uncertainty* - Encourages individuals to trust God's judgment even if they feel uncertain or uncomfortable. - Implies that appreciation for hell will come in the future. - Critique: Relies on the idea that understanding will come after death without providing clarity. 36:22 🤯 *The Mystery of Hell and the Call for Trust* - Admits there are things he does not know about hell. - Raises the possibility of annihilationism or conditional immortality. - Expresses discomfort with the unclear descriptions of hell in the Bible. 37:04 🤔 *The Evasive Appeal to Future Understanding* - Proposes that uncertainty about hell will be clarified after death. - Suggests that Christians should trust God's plan even if they find aspects uncomfortable. - Critique: Offers an evasive approach to difficult questions without providing substantive answers. Made with HARPA AI

[@slaydog5102]

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[@DarkMatter2525]

Fun fact: Mike Winger's shirt in this video is in reference to a line repeatedly spoken by Wallace Shawn in the movie "The Princess Bride". Wallace Shawn is a self-described socialist and atheist. He is married to a family member of mine, and that entire side of my family is composed of fairly aggressive atheists. I'm claiming Mike Winger's shirt as DarkMatter2525 merch.

[@whitemountainapache3297]

Thou needest to get right with GOD before thy die in thy sins thou foulest of sinners! Pssssssst! Only joking.

[@PeteysPonderings1220]

Hey I really enjoy your work. Keep up the great content!

[@Redington931]

Not to mention how ironic it is for him to wear it. All of his points were logically inconceivable!

[@TroyWilcox-c2p]

Hey what's up, like your Jeffery and God videos.

[@maxamahnken7325]

I am not an atheist. To no ever burning hell.

[@MamaMOB]

Anyone notice that Christians never push the biblical version of heaven? Because the idea of worshiping a being and doing nothing else for the rest of eternity sounds like hell.

[@cplus14]

I always thought that when I went to church! Imagine spending a billion years telling someone how great they are and still having infinite years to go. At least burning would let you FEEL something. Jesus

[@MatecaCorp]

Even when I was a good little fundie kid I thought heaven would be boring as hell (pun intended)

[@Justmonika6969]

It's funny because when I was a kid I was taught by my fundie parents that heaven is a paradise where you can do whatever tf you want. Now that I think about it as an adult, I realized that I was lied to, especially when you start to consider what they mean by "anything goes". So you're saying that if I got to heaven I could just...murder and r*pe everyone I desire? See the problem here? If you managed to get into heaven, assuming it existed and worked like this, it'd be easily the most immoral place ironically.

[@DivineInferno]

Christians bow to a false god. There mere fact of boring to fake religions would make the Lord Christ shut. You cannot find God inside a church! -Jesus Christ

[@bottomthor]

when i broke my ankle it took a few hours to get it set bc room availability and i remember how much it hurt- and honestly, very little else. and that was just a few hours. eternal torture would not leave room to *sin* in deed or thought if its painful enough, and if it is painful enough, then i guarantee you the sufferer will be angry at the tormenter (aka, god) which is a sin

[@tom-kz9pb]

The kinds of people who are gleeful at the thought of other people being in hell, are the very kinds of people who would belong there, themselves, if it were real.

[@Prelude-vs5vi]

I agree, except for me & my reasons. I want these Mike Winger types to taste their own medicine.

[@marcdc6809]

it sounds a bit like a kind of coveting, they gleefully look forward to see others suffer, definitely not in line with the christian directive to be forgiving...

[@afly-np6mf]

“The bliss of the elect in heaven would not be perfect unless they were able to look across the abyss and enjoy the agonies of their brethren in eternal fire.” -Pope Gregory I Not a bible quote or anything but I'd have a hard time being convinced that it's not how a lot of at least evangelical christians feel. Pretty sick if you ask me.

[@bigburrito308]

Yeah I will link the video if I can find it but it was basically a portrayal of what God would actually be like when you get to Heaven. At the end of the day he was heavily criticizing the christians for the box that they put everybody into and how they damned everybody to tell when they never got a word from God to verify any of it and about how they are emotionally reactive and all that 😂

[@_Mr.Black_]

Eternal hell as a concept is just sickening to me. If our reality contains such a thing, then reality should not exist. Nothingness is preferable to an existence that includes unending pain. Disgusting.

[@drlegendre]

"Eight Facts.. ok, well Things I'm Going to Say.." I literally burst out laughing at this. Finally, the sort of real, genuine honesty we've been needing for so very long!

[@paulgemme6056]

The only reason one is punished is because of unbelief. Read your bible: John 3:18 King James Version 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

[@lavieenrose5954]

@@paulgemme6056 I don’t have a Bible 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@paulgemme6056]

@@lavieenrose5954 Get a good King James version. The Word is more powerful than a two-edged sword.

[@JacksonPhixesPhones]

As a counselor and licensed clinician, if someone told me that they were fantasizing about people who don't think like them being tortured ETERNALLY in the most horrific ways imaginable, I would seriously consider 1013'ing that person since they might be an imminent risk to themselves or others. Think about it, would we accept this sort of thought process as normal from anyone else? Why do Christians get a pass? We have a 'duty to warn' if someone is making threats of violence, and what is the threat of hell if not a threat of violence? If we fail to report, and something happens, we can lose our license. It boggles the mind.

[@pansepot1490]

I recently saw a meme which said roughly “if the threat of hell is the only thing that prevents you from r*aping, looting and killing, you are not a good person, you are psychopath on a leash” And there’s Christians who claim no problem that they would kill their child if god asked them like he did Abraham.

[@wet-read]

Penn Jillette has said that he understands and appreciates believers who, given their beliefs, strive to save others from the fate they believe is imminent for them if they don't convert. I look at it differently. I think that, because there is zero empirical evidence outside of first person accounts taken to be of Hell or the afterlife more broadly, them saying this is little better than a threat and a hideous insult.

[@JakeStrange66]

I've actually wondered about that in the past, but I'm not a counselor or anything. I don't even have any education in psychiatry... My girlfriend does though. I wonder what she thinks about this. 🤔

[@JakeStrange66]

​​@@pansepot1490I recently saw a video clip of Eric Hovind (Kent Hovind's son; & it is probably an older video, but I just recently saw it) saying someone asked him if the fear of eternal punishment is the only thing keeping him from doing awful things to people. & He actually said "yes!" I'm paraphrasing, but he said "if I knew for certain, or truly believed there was no god, they better make sure the jail can hold me in." It's kinda scary that there are people like that & that's literally the ONLY reason they're not doing the worst things imaginable to other people.

[@tina-g4h]

I'm not a religious person , but I was raised Catholic. People don't just make things up about hell. It's taught to us because there are many passages in the bible about it, such as : In the eschatological discourse of Matthew 25:31-46, Jesus says that, when the Son of Man comes in his glory, he will separate people from one another as a shepherd separates sheep from goats, and will consign to everlasting fire those who failed to aid "the least of his brothers". This separation is stark, with no explicit provision made for fine gradations of merit or guilt:[20] Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me. ...whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. - Matthew 25:41-43 (NIV)

[@LittleBitVic]

The body I have tortures itself with chronic pain due to a congenital chronic illness of mine, and in the years before I found better treatment and medication to prevent pain escalation, I was racked with so much back and joint pain that I'd contract into a fetal position and groan/cry/scream depending on the duration. Going to the ER, I couldn't register my surroundings or respond to anyone speaking to me, only yell in pain. I would've done anything to get it to stop, but I also couldn't think or react to anything but the pain. That Mike can even entertain the _concept_ that someone in excruciating pain could do anything besides suffer in agony is astounding to me. What's truly abhorrent is how he thinks _torture_ is a solution to anything at all! Torture doesn't teach you a moral lesson; you don't truly understand why something is unacceptable. It teaches *fear.* But, changing behavior isn't the goal of hell, apparently. Just abject punishment. If Christianity's doctrine is to be believed, you'd be receiving this eternity of egregious cruelty for merely requiring sufficient evidence before believing in something you nor anyone else has seen before. Sure, sounds reasonable.

[@nightshade7240]

Sounds like Mike has never suffered from any kind of substantially debilitating pain.

[@Prelude-vs5vi]

I disagree on the last point. I think if Mike experienced it, it would be good. It would teach him loss to care for others.

[@ibrahimalharbi3358]

Staying there forever, as long as the heavens and the earth will endure, except what your Lord wills.1 Surely your Lord does what He intends." Deny God is optional! Deny creator is madness! Who don't know or misleading about his creator never go to Hell for just luck of facts (Ramadan Mabark)

[@LittleBitVic]

@ibrahimalharbi3358 That was a bit nonsensical, but I think you're essentially upset about denying your god despite the conversation not focusing on that at all. If you have substantial evidence of any magical or supernatural force that can't be demonstrated by natural processes, by all means, I'll listen. As of now, you might as well be claiming we're the product of unicorn dust and quoting a book that says unicorns exist, denying unicorns is wrong, and the unicorn will be angry if you don't believe in it. I'm sorry this upsets you, but that's not a reason to believe in anything. You could justify any claim with your methods. However, if you expect me to go so far as to _worship_ anything that tortures anyone, that's a step too far. Even if you could prove the existence of a unicorn, the best I can do is recognize its existence. I have not and will not worship anything. All I can give is my respect once one has earned it.

[@ibrahimalharbi3358]

@@LittleBitVic I'm sorry if things seem unclear. Personally, I don't mind if you believe or not! But I have a friend who would cry if he found out someone died without acknowledging Allah. Like my hero: Dr. Abdul Rahman Al Sumait kzbin.info/www/bejne/oYLMYnyZqbaqia8 Finally, do as you wish; it's your life, not mine. Sincerely, Your friend

[@joshuaj791]

Wanted to add something to the “punishment shows you bad your actions were” idea. Even if we grant that that’s a function of punishment, the idea of hell removes any functional outcome from it. In other words, we punish someone to demonstrate the severity of their actions to them, in the hopes that they will change their behavior in the future. Why else? But if their punishment is eternal conscious torment, then they have no opportunity to change their behavior. The motivation behind the punishment is gone.

[@MatecaCorp]

As with most things authoritarian fundamentalists preach, the cruelty is the point.

[@serpentinious7745]

And since it's not actually shown to others it doesn't act as an effective deterrent for them either.

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

Can you be punished in hell for the crime of anger at God for creating hell in the first place?

[@robertmiller9735]

@@MatecaCorp Well, coercion-in life, by humans-is the point. But yeah, they really seem to like cruelty.

[@seamonster936]

Historically that was not the motivation of punishment. The idea of punishment as reforming is recent and contemporaneous with the Enlightenment and Industrial Revolution. The motivation was control and deterrence. During the Bloody Code in Britain families would have a nice day out and picnic in front of the scaffold and local authorities arranged for school trips. This is the purpose of hell: ‘Look what happens when you don’t believe.’.

[@al4nmcintyre]

"You know how my beliefs have seemed really wacky and unjustified to you in the past? Hold my beer and watch this..." --Mike Winger

[@DoloresLehmann]

And also "Look at this long list of wild assumptions - but we shouldn't jump too quickly to assumptions..."

[@litew8]

Umm don’t you mean “hold my root beer”?

[@calvin1559]

Eternal torture is literally the most evil thing imaginable

[@pjj.1318]

I agree! … Hell doesn’t exist or is burning at the present time.

[@WonderlustThing]

Hell is earth.

[@WonderlustThing]

Because there’s no escape from this crazy place

[@pjj.1318]

@@WonderlustThing At the end of time, after a final judgment; the earth will be purified by fire.

[@ibrahimalharbi3358]

staying there forever, as long as the heavens and the earth will endure, except what your Lord wills.1 Surely your Lord does what He intends. Deny God is optional! Deny creator is madness! Who don't know or misleading about his creator never go to Hell for just luck of facts!

[@PadraigG8]

Also fun fact: Christian Universalists and Annihilationist apparently refer to believers in the Eternal Conscious Torment Hell as "Infernalists" which I think we should all start doing.

[@timothy8428]

Infernalists sounds like something from Warhammer.

[@TheBronzeDog]

Feels adjacent to one thing I sometimes say: "What's the difference between a fire and brimstone preacher and a diabolist? ...That's not a joke. I really don't see a difference." Infernalism strikes me as the assumption that God has already lost the war between good and evil, and is just fighting for the last scraps of humanity.

[@Awakened_Mucacha]

I see no point in differentiating. It's all mind-numbingly silly. That, and they each always get to blame that "other" group for the problems of their cultist activities. They always try to shift away and other people in their own cult, to seem like the perfectly sane ones.

[@nerowolfe5175]

As a Christian Universalist, I approve this message.

[@chazzilla8919]

​@@timothy8428 Infernalist battle pack coming in 12th edition

[@EatHoneyBeeHappy]

Mike has clearly never been tortured, or read anything about torture before, because one of the first things you learn about torture is that people are willing to think or say literally anything to make the torture stop.

[@dylans0630]

The Ignorance and lack of empathy is very unsettling

[@mistercomment1622]

@@dylans0630 But typical for those guys.

[@dylans0630]

@@mistercomment1622 so it would appear 🤕

[@PaddySnuffles]

People have this misconception that torture makes you honest when all it really does is make people desperate.

[@dylans0630]

@@PaddySnuffles and Mike appears to be one of those people

[@LogicAndReason2025]

When people threaten me with their fave hell, I ask them: "What if there really is a god, and she loves skeptics and doubters, and really hates groveling sycophants?" We can make stuff-up too.

[@mattmorehouse9685]

It is made up bullshit all the way down!

[@YEY0806]

The funny thing is that they will ignore the content you just said and be super pissed that you referred to God as a woman, coming from the "We respect women because of religion" people 😂

[@marcdc6809]

I'm imagining George Carlin will be there in heaven with new material.

[@ColinWrubleski-eq5sh]

​@@marcdc6809: Tertullian was likely correct, and Carlin right now is quite possibly suffering the painful consequences for the irreverent mockery with which he earned his applause and cheers while alive...

[@NoodleKeeper]

​@@ColinWrubleski-eq5shCarlin spit nothing but facts, and if a God punished him for being brutally honest, then that God sucks, and I want nothing to do with them.

[@maddyjean]

divorce is a punishment? that’s the point of view that an abusive spouse would have.

[@DawnDavidson]

Indeed it is. The parallels between abuse and religion are unsettling, and hard to unsee, once seen.

[@AngryReptileKeeper]

@@DawnDavidson This. It's like religions (certainly the Abrahamic ones, can't comment on the others) adopted their whole script right out of the abuser's playbook.

[@ps.2]

Errrr? Did Winger say that? All I noticed was that he mentioned divorce while discussing a *consequence,* as distinct from a *punishment.* Is that objectionable to you? I mean, it seems fair enough to me.

[@maddyjean]

@@ps.2if you buy his logic that hell is merely a consequence of sin, then i suppose you would also get tricked by his fake logic that hell isn’t somehow a horrific punishment

[@paulgemme6056]

@@DawnDavidson Religion will save no one. This evil world is about to see chaos, evil, sin like it has never seen in history before. God/Jesus Christ/Holy Spirit offers the free gift of God to all those who believe (have faith). No religion needed. Just faith, faith plus nothing. Jesus Christ (the truth) tells us we are sinners in need of God's grace and mercy that's why this evil world, atheists and the devil hate him because he shines his light and reveals who man really is. If a man says he has never done wrong/sinned he is a liar, and the truth (Jesus Christ) is not in him. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

[@monsterguyx]

I find one of the more disturbing implications of Mike's divorce metaphor is that he seems to think that the point of divorce is to serve as a "punishment" for one spouse by the other.

[@dylans0630]

I think he said his parents were divorced. I think it was Mike. But if so, that might explain it

[@julietfischer5056]

Far too many divorces turn into tit-for-tat contests rather than splitting for the best interests of all involved. Makes me wonder what his (if he had one) was like.

[@Finckelstein]

My 10 bucks are on him believing it's a punishment for the husband.

[@dinamosflams]

if psychoaphy was an institution it would be religion

[@gupdoo3]

9:59 "sure, every inch of your body may be on fire, but you didn't have to have such a crummy attitude about it" is just 90% of "be thankful to God in all situations" platitudes

[@renkol123]

Well how is God supposed to enjoy it if you're being a buzzkill?

[@paulgemme6056]

@@renkol123 No true born-again believer would ever glee in the fact that souls go to hell. If they did, they would not share the truth, the gospel truth. The reason why we share the gospel truth is so that all souls will be saved. The only reason one is punished is because of unbelief. Read your bible: John 3:18 King James Version 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

[@MatecaCorp]

Even when I was a good fundie kid I never wanted to go to heaven, I just didn’t want to go to hell. Heaven sounded boring and impractical, and I figured any benefits would be ruined by the knowledge that most of my extended family would be eternally tortured. I never really thought about heaven and hell very much, as even back then heaven seemed so absurd and hell so inconsistent.

[@pansepot1490]

In the Catholic environment where I grew up there was no hell scaremongering so I never really thought about heaven or hell. If anything I was just scared of death, like little Jane Eyre. And what is hell? Can you tell me that?” “A pit full of fire.” “And should you like to fall into that pit, and to be burning there for ever?” “No, sir.” “What must you do to avoid it?” I deliberated a moment; my answer, when it did come, was objectionable: “I must keep in good health, and not die.” ― Charlotte Bronte, Jane Eyre

[@yoshigottagun]

I had a very similar experience. I remember one day, towards the end of my faith, sitting on a bench at an amusement park. I was literally paralyzed in fear, not because of the rides I had been on, but because of a thought that had came to me while I was there. "How many people here right now are going to be in hell?" I'm from a very small town so such a large crowd was foreign to me. I think that combined with the adrenaline rush of the rides triggered this reaction in me. It was one of the most horrifying moments of my life, as I couldn't help but imagine in gruesome detail every single person around me suffering unimaginable torture. I wanted so badly to save them, but I knew that nothing I or anyone else could do would stop the vast majority of people from facing such a fate. No excuse I could think of could justify such an extreme evil. Should I be in heaven, the knowledge of so many people experiencing so much pain would be enough to drive me mad.

[@megzasaurusrex]

My dad is religious and got mad that both my sister and I don't want to go to heaven. We said the same thing as you. And I also said I'm exhausted. I don't want to exist anymore. And his argument was that I'd be happy and have everything I wanted. I said that sounds boring and if it makes me happy than God changed who I am as a person and turned me into an ignorant oblivious person who just is content no matter what. Why would I want that?

[@chrisphinney8475]

All The cool people will be in hell

[@arspsychologia4401]

A lot of people misunderstand it, and then they teach that misunderstanding to others. It just gets worse with each schism, and it's sad.

[@martinnyberg71]

I’ve never been religious, so I have such a hard time wrapping my head around this compulsion these people have to “believe” in, *_and_* just sitting there and casually and confidently asserting that they “know” things about completely *_inconceivable_* things. He’s even wearing the t-shirt! Why would you even *_want_* to? 🙄

[@benroberts2222]

I think it's best explained as religious beliefs being credences rather than fact-based beliefs the rest of us are used to. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qoHWkmiKZtR2b5I

[@Justmonika6969]

I was raised religious in a fundamentalist Christian family and I can tell you that it is basically fear that keeps them in line. The biggest fear is the fear of going against the grain. Since religion is so normalized in society and part of tradition, it makes those who are religious the norm and thus its too scary for people to not follow it so they often just stick with it and in turn, they end up getting swept up believing some of the crazy shit in it because they want to prove their purity to God and not go to hell.

[@TheMilitantMazdakite]

Yeah, as a former Athiest turned Zoroastrian, I can see where you are coming from, and it is something I found attractive about Zoroastrianism. (The Zoroastrian God judges your afterlife based on your actions, not your beliefs)

[@pansepot1490]

⁠@@TheMilitantMazdakite the god of Catholics does the same. Judges on actions. It’s protestants that picked a line out of Paul and built a whole theology based on salvation through faith alone.

[@MichaelMcLean-fr7ml]

​@@benroberts2222That is just another way to say. I have no evidence, but I'm willing to accept this as a fact with no evidence to Back it up.😂

[@Tarotlynx]

I admit, I was shocked when I was in college and realized that much of what was 'known' about Hell wasn't from the bible at all, but from books like Dante's Inferno.

[@arc-michaelr9580]

honestly, I thought he was going to start drawing from Dante's Inferno midway through.

[@Skeptical_Numbat]

​@arc-michaelr9580 Not to mention epic poems like John Milton's Paradise Lost & Paradise Regained, which expounds on the background character of Satan (including "The War in Heaven" in visceral detail), adds him to Eden as a snake, implies that Adam & Eve were fucking like rabbits before the fall (but in innocence - WTF that means), makes "The Fall of Man" mostly Eve's fault (after Satan uses manipulative rhetoric), but turns Adam's part into a more noble sacrifice (in a clumsy attemp to get him off the hook). So much modern dogma comes from non-Biblical fiction sources, which are then shoe-horned to fit with the earlier narrative in a post hoc fashion (in the best practice of Christian Apologists everywhere attempting to square the circle to have this shit make any sense at all).

[@MargaretEibl]

The Holy Bible is very explicit about hell. It was made for the devil and fallen angels. It was never made for man, but as man continues to follow differeng cults, dabble in Hinduism. I might add that for years Himdu's have been coming to the Lord in their droves, leaving behind all those fslse teachings. Those will go to hell. It is better to put your hand to the plough and to live a life of service to our beloved Lord Jesus. Turning back, you are not fit for the kingdom of God.

[@Tarotlynx]

@@MargaretEibl And if god were worthwhile, worth following, why would he sit back and allow that to happen? He wouldn't sent people to Hell (no, they don't send themselves, he sends them) unless he were more evil than Hitler and relished their suffering. Even your bible is clear what a cruel and amoral monster god is. People might be turning from Hinduism, but that has more to do with a lack of evidence for the Hindu religion than any validity of Christianity (for which there is also no evidence).

[@andrewdowns3673]

The greatest work of fanfiction since Plato's Atlantis and the Christian Bible.

[@zugabdu1]

This is what i find so frustrating about apologists - they keep making analogies to human behavior to explain what God does, and none of those analogies work because an all powerful, all knowing being does not have the same interests, needs, vulnerabilities, or psychology that a human would.

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

They really need to stay away from human analogies. If a human acted like God, we would think he was one of the worst humans ever to have existed.

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

@@RealHumanUser Anyone who doesn't agree goes to hell. That's good right?

[@TheBronzeDog]

It's especially bad when they try to depict their god as a particularly petty human who just happens to have superpowers.

[@morardesign2647]

Great point.

[@arspsychologia4401]

As a Christian, I would generally agree. Many of these people are simply not saying Christian things, and you can look to writings from the early Church and say "yeah no you're wrong and here's why". I would highly recommend looking into some of those, especially Saint John Chrysostom, who had a lot of things to say about abuse of authority. I hope God blesses you in your search for truth ☦

[@usmagrad87]

The lack of empathy he has people burning in hell is deeply disturbing.

[@eyeswideopenapril]

Yes, feel that too 😢

[@JohanA-uh1yg]

because he knows it is made up. 😄

[@DoloresLehmann]

As Alan Watts once said: "I people really believed in hell, they would be running down the streets screaming in horror."

[@andyf4292]

there was one of the early church loonies who said that seeing the tormented in hell was one of the pleasures of heaven... that guy probably tortured animals

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

It's part of being a narcissist to have no empathy.

[@nathanpose8607]

I am fortunate that the fear of hell was never a big part of how I was raised.

[@ricoyochanan]

That's Satan's grand strategy: Luk_12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

[@RumpyxD]

​@@ricoyochanankys pls

[@abcd7613]

@@ricoyochananoh come on… he’s too old for your fear mongering. Give it a rest.

[@dereknoto6555]

@@ricoyochanan Snore. Tell me, are there other hells and other religions with primitive threats like that that don't affect you either? When the Muslims insist, with all of their being, that you are doomed, eternally, to anguish in the fires of Jahannam, does it scare you into submission? or do you genuinely just laugh them off as desperate psychos? So, why the absolute FUCK do you think that it would work for anyone who doesn't already believe in your specific pet theory? That you think you don't come across the same way?

[@NegativeProcess]

​@ricoyochanan you're on a video breaking down how ridiculous you sound yet you ignore it and continue on? How dense are you? How indoctrinated are you? You're pushing people away from your cult by saying this and I do not think Jesus wants that 🤔

[@gatorboymike]

Multiple Christians have told me that there's a big-screen TV in Heaven with a continuous live feed of everyone suffering in Hell, and that watching that TV is the #1 thing to do in Heaven, and they intend to spend a lot of time parked in front of it when they get there. Because something objective moral values something or whatever.

[@shassett79]

Yeah, I don't think I'd ever be able to look at someone the same way after they told me their ambition was to get to heaven and watch torture porn for eternity.

[@antondovydaitis2261]

They're probably fantasizing about it already, possibly to orgasm.

[@СергейМакеев-ж2н]

In the book "Unsong" by Scott Alexander, there's something called "The Broadcast", which is literally a National Geographic broadcast from Hell. And the way it's done, it seems like the Devil wants to show people that the real thing is so much worse than the worst of anyone's expectations. All those things that Mike Winger made up as excuses to make Hell seem less horrible? Nah, it's actually all *exactly the opposite* of what he says. For example, the worst sinners actually get *less* of a punishment, which would incentivize hell-bound criminals to continue sinning more and more, to cause more death, destruction and misery. The apologetic about how people keep sinning eternally and get punished for it? HELL NO! In actuality, demons manipulate people with threats of even more gruesome torture, *forcing* them to do more sinful things! The book does a good job of showing a situation where people know for sure that Hell is for real.

[@markbriten6999]

But since it's utter bollocks who cares​@@СергейМакеев-ж2н

[@Justmonika6969]

I'm sure they revel in the idea that everyone who disagreed with them ever gets to burn for eternity in front of them...and we are expected to believe these are the "moral people", lol.

[@aberrantreptile]

All I’m hearing when people say that you continue sinning in hell, is that god is far too incompetent to prevent the conditions that would allow you to sin, or far too cruel to actually try and help avoid it. It’s such a weak argument.

[@Mkeusquealbby]

There's a quote, not sure by who, that basically says god expects man to render himself sinless when he also couldn't do it

[@AngryReptileKeeper]

Especially when god was the one who knowingly created the conditions that would allow you to sin in the first place.

[@AngryReptileKeeper]

@@Mkeusquealbby Couldn't, or _wouldn't?_ If god is the all-powerful creator of all things like the Abrahamic religions would have us believe, then he's responsible for the existence of evil and sin, despite knowing how it would play out (being all-knowing and whatnot). It sounds like he was perfectly capable of rendering man sinless, but simply unwilling.

[@julietfischer5056]

Also: how the heck can people continue to sin if they're purportedly being punished for sin? Are the adulterers choosing masturbation or gluttony? Are the murderers holding sex orgies?

[@julietfischer5056]

@@AngryReptileKeeper- Have you read the graphic series _Preacher_ by Garth Ennis? God is a total jerk in that.

[@PaddySnuffles]

The concept of Hell has always seemed to me like such an obvious display of trying to frighten people into obedience. It really baffled me as a kid how anyone would fall for it.

[@CH4R10T_TV]

These videos with your face in them are so great, you have such a kind and friendly expression even when you're talking about whatever ideas about hellfire or eternal damnation people are throwing around, you make even really nasty ideas into a nice and approachable conversation.

[@SpacersChoice]

a wild ch4r10t

[@ghrayfahx]

I used to assume the static mask was to disguise a below average appearance. Nope. PoZ is legitimately very attractive.

[@carlgrimeseyepatch27]

I am glad someone is saying this, such a handsome individual!

[@julietfischer5056]

@@ghrayfahx- I figured he was hiding from the crazy people who think God wants unbelievers murdered.

[@bjsimpson4768]

I wondered why he chose to conceal his appearance too. Security from crazy zealots is something that hadn’t occurred to me. It makes sense though. But yes, this is better. Are you listening Viced Rhino? Logicked?

[@stephieboston]

Even as a child, I had trouble rationalizing eternal punishment for temporary sins. I think that's why the theological echo chamber is so important to religious people. If you never get outside your worldview, then it's easier to brainwash yourself and others. I've been deconstructing for a few years now, and I still sometimes get afraid of hell even though I know it's not real. The trauma is so real, and I'm so thankful that my husband helped me pull the kids away from that. I wish people would just treat people the way they want to be treated first. They can worry about the other s*** later.

[@Halfendymion]

That's why churches are so echoey

[@Finckelstein]

As a person with empathy, I have a problem even with temporal torture in hell. What kind of sick person can justify anyone getting tortured in the most gruesome ways? Be it for a day or for eternity, it doesn't matter. People like Mike Winger are absolutely appalling.

[@patrickbarnes9874]

Your assumptions are baseless. There is no theological echo chamber. This should be obvious to anybody who has taken a science class in school. Teaching creationism is banned and teaching evolution is required. Even Catholic schools teach evolution. It is ridiculous to say that religious people aren't exposed to other worldviews.

[@stephieboston]

@@patrickbarnes9874 I'm speaking from observations and experience, not assumptions. In my network of schools were big schools, small country schools and private schools. We met up at Wednesday night services and talked about how everyone's teachers basically said the same thing... "I'm required to the theory of evolution. Remember it's a theory. After the test, please follow your parents' advice on how to deal with this information". Living in the Bible belt, please guess where most of our parents got their guidance from.

[@joshuamoody7729]

yeah, I had a big trouble with that one myself. It’s funny how the people closest to you claim that God is around you, but whatever you’re going through you don’t see him helping or making it better. you tend to get a lonely feeling.

[@iesika7387]

The whole concept of hell is a great example of the missing historical/cultural context of scriptural interpretation that leads to some of the wildest hot-takes in religion. Gehenna is a real place. It's a valley outside Jerusalem where, historically, trash and unclaimed bodies were burned. All the mentions of burning and seperation from god in the old testament are talking about a physical, corporial event here on earth. If you break the laws, your corpse won't get a "proper" and respectful disposition with the funerary rites that comfort your family and "send you to god." Instead, your community will put you in the trash. It's that simple. It's described as a stinky burning trash heap because that is literally what it was. At a pretty young age, learning about the evangelical idea of hell was one of the things that most turned me away from the church I was raised in. If someone holds a gun (loaded with eternal torture) to your head and tells you to worship them or else, that's bad-guy behavior. Christians who want to feel oppressed love to tell stories about people being threatened with harm or torture if they won't change their beliefs. In all those stories (except the biggest one, of course) the one doing the threatening is the villain. If someone in a position of power over us says "bow down and worship and do as I say or else be tortured," we have a moral responsiblility to be better than that guy.

[@daheikkinen]

In my personal hell I will be forced to watch Mike Winger videos for all of eternity

[@momentswithyahya4239]

LMAO!!!!!😂

[@patrickbarnes9874]

and I'll be forced to read your comments.

[@RumpyxD]

​@@patrickbarnes9874mike winger sucker here

[@whysocurious7366]

Wait a minute... people say things that aren’t true??? They can be mistaken/lie!?? But then why does anyone trust their judgement of the truth of English translations of Latin translations of Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic scrolls written by people?

[@88marome]

@jackienatla217 Hahaha

[@justinhart2831]

​@@jackienatla217 we know the Bible is the word of God because it says so. And we know the Bible is telling the truth about being the word of God because it's the word of God.

[@WyattKittle]

@@jackienatla217the bible also depicts god deliberately confusing people on numerous occasions so

[@MichaelMcLean-fr7ml]

​@justinhart2831 The Bible says so is circular reasoning. The Bible is the word of men not of some deity .

[@whysocurious7366]

@@jackienatla217 you should look up Isaiah 45:7. It says “I am the Lord, and there is none else. (7) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.”

[@KWheel_]

"Sure you had every inch of you on fire for the last 2 million years, but you didn't have to have such a bad attitude about it." 😂😂😂

[@hackman669]

We're is the Rebel base...😂

[@Leszek.Rzepecki]

What Christian apologists don't seem to get is that most of us ex-Christians became ex-Christians because we realised it wasn't god telling us anything; it was Christian advocates telling us what they believe, based on their interpretation of the bible, written by other Christian advocates with a living to make. There's no more reason, objectively, to take them seriously than advocates for any other religion.

[@gothboschincarnate3931]

well said.

[@lonesavior]

It reminds me of when I started studying folklore, and got sad when I realized how many key aspects of myths were confirmed to be added way more recently than the original story. Then that got me thinking why I cared what the "legitimate" story was if that was also made up. Its the same with the afterlife. The oldest Hebrew scripture on the afterlife was the morally neutral, death sucks for everyone afterlife before concepts of eternal awards and punishments were added.

[@Leszek.Rzepecki]

@@lonesavior Well, my feeling about the afterlife is I'm pretty glad I won't have one!

[@sujoyteslesl]

This is so perfectly expressed

[@gothboschincarnate3931]

keep telling your self that....@@Leszek.Rzepecki

[@riluna3695]

You caught me by surprise when you said that Mike was "already off the rails" a few seconds into the video, and I think the fact that it surprised me at all is really illustrative of Hell's biggest threat to humanity: Normalization. I genuinely missed the idea that his entire video was just him trying to make it sound like torturing people is a-okay. And I missed it because I've heard this garbage a hundred times at this point. I'm used to it. It doesn't surprise me anymore. Which means I don't recognize it as the insane "off-the-rails" statement it actually is, anymore. It's bad enough for someone like me, who doesn't believe in hell, to lose my ability to apply empathy to this concept. But when we're talking about people who think that their great and powerful and benevolent and very REAL leader is knowingly harming real people, and they're so used to that concept that they don't even bat an eye anymore? This is the very real damage that a fictional concept can cause. "Of course it's fine for people to be set on fire if they don't think this book is correct in everything that it says, why wouldn't it be? What a strange thing to ask." This isn't even hyperbole, we're GENUINELY at this point. If anything it's an understatement. They really believe this, even if they'd refuse to word it like that. I have no reason at this time to believe that Mike is one of the knowing-liar apologists, and so I don't assume it. But even the best case scenario for him is that he's in so deep at this point that he's completely inured to the insanity of the thing he's defending. He's normalized it so thoroughly that the very idea that God might not be a great person for doing this is LITERALLY unthinkable to him. He straight-up says it, in this video. (I had to fight hard to not make that comment the main point I responded to, but I've already done that on someone else's response to this video) He's jumped straight into the washing machine and is just riding the circular reasoning round and round without a care in the world. It makes him feel safe. Comfortable. Relaxed. Free from the troubling rumble of his thoughts as something in the back of his mind screams at him that it just doesn't make sense, as he tries half a dozen excuses to make the voice shut up and stop bothering him. It can't be that the guy who both commits and commands multiple mass-murders might not be such an upstanding citizen; oh no, it can't be THAT. I guess sinning is just really reeeeally bad, and they just can't help themselves. Yeah, that makes sense. Makes perfect sense.........

[@plattbagarn]

"and they're so used to that concept that they don't even bat an eye anymore?" Even worse, celebrate it. So many of my youtube "discussions" have ended with the other party hoping I suffer really badly down there.

[@riluna3695]

@@plattbagarn Yep. I've seen the glint of excitement in the eyes of several christian youtubers when they talk about unbelievers learning the hard way that hell is a real place. Those ones are the most disgusting of all. The quiet joy at the idea of a person who disagrees with you suffering a fate far, FAR worse than death. They honestly, truly believe people can deserve that for the infinite crime of not being convinced by poorly-structured arguments. It's sickening. Forget Normalization, that's what Demonization looks like. The human mind's terrifying ability to separate an entire subset of the populace, of sentient people, and think of them as less deserving of rights and basic decency than the flies that get in their house and buzz around their heads. And again, there is no hyperbole in this comparison. Flies are annoying, but when's the last time you delighted in the idea of seeing them all torn limb from limb as punishment for the crime of accidentally being near you at dinnertime? Does the very thought make you smile? I imagine some people will say yes, but the vast majority have never felt this. And that's to an insect, not a sentient human being.

[@ob2249]

@@plattbagarn they reIish the th0ught 0f pe0pIe wh0 disagree with them being punished f0rever, a c0ncept n0 0ne can fuIIy c0mprehend, but they s0me h0w "understand"

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

If he ever goes there and thinks this makes God a bad person, then he's already gone too far and it's all over.

[@riluna3695]

@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Yep. Hard to keep up the illusion of "god's so loving and perfect; you should give everything to him" when you can see with your own eyes the atrocities he's claimed to commit. So they're all trained explicitly not to see it, not to DARE think it lest they suffer the same totally-absolutely-just fate. Religion is sick and twisted and I'm tired of it robbing the lives and values of those born and/or manipulated into it.

[@quintinramsey6979]

The thought I had with the aspect of "can you sin in hell after you died" prompted me to ask: "can you sin in HEAVEN after you die?" Like, based on the idea of retaining consciousness after death, and the idea that you are going to be in heaven eternally, wouldn't it be possible to sin in heaven? Apparently Lucifer did, so wouldn't that just make the problem even worse? Its really silly, but if you can't sin in heaven, you are left with the same infinite punishment/reward for finite actions problem. If you can sin in heaven, then how would they be punished? Neither way works...

[@havenofear7033]

Born again believers who trust in Jesus death on the cross as payment for their sin and believe in His resurrection are saved for a purpose...that they would become Holy children of God. We are justified by grace through faith and begin a lifelong journey of being set apart for God's glory. This process is called sanctification. After we are saved, the power of sin no longer dominates us and we can overcome it to a great degree. But only when our soul separates from the body at death do we become glorified- sinless, unable to sin because the sinful body and sinful nature we were born with is cast away. We are given a new glorified body that has no desire to sin. So, sanctification happens in 3 stages- We are separated from the judgment for sin, the power of sin, and the presence of sin.

[@paulgemme6056]

@@attackhelicopter-up3dh This evil world is about to see chaos, evil, sin like it has never seen in history before. God/Jesus Christ/Holy Spirit offers the free gift of God to all those who believe (have faith). No religion needed. Just faith, faith plus nothing. Jesus Christ (the truth) tells us we are sinners in need of God's grace and mercy that's why this evil world, atheists and the devil hate him because he shines his light and reveals who man really is. If a man says he has never done wrong/sinned he is a liar, and the truth (Jesus Christ) is not in him. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

[@hank_says_things]

Nobody makes shit up like a US evangelist. It's like they give themselves license to tell the flock whatever they need to make everybody comfortable, up to and including literally writing Bible fanfic to soften eternal torment.

[@gothboschincarnate3931]

God gives them full permission to make it all. The god in their heads. Donna Douglas referred to it as fan-fiction. she told me i weighed 168 pounds once. 200 years after their blue-eyed Jesus died, well they had forgotten who he was so they had to makes things up. And they gave him super-powers to make the comic book...er, bible more impressive. tho...some things can be accomplished...such as a miracle...like healing overnight and such. but it is exceptionally difficult.

[@patrickbarnes9874]

Not really. This is you making unsubstantiated claims about something you are clearly ignorant of. It's the curse of atheists, so convinced that they are rational and intelligent that they don't recognize that their baseless assertions aren't facts.

[@ibrahimalharbi3358]

"Staying there forever, as long as the heavens and the earth will endure, except what your Lord wills.1 Surely your Lord does what He intends." Deny God is optional! Deny creator is madness! Who don't know or misleading about his creator never go to Hell for just luck of facts (Ramadan Mabark)

[@helios2664]

The more I realize this, the more I come to despise American evangelists/protestants. Other sects of christianity have their issues, but that comes more from the conduct of certain people rather than how they interpret the bible’s theology.

[@paulgemme6056]

@@gothboschincarnate3931 Loving God/Jesus Christ (having faith) has nothing to do with fear, it everything to do with admiration. Knowing that a magnificent Creator God/Jesus Christ loves you enough to die for you and pay the price for your redemption. AMAZING GRACE! No true born-again believer would ever glee in the fact that souls go to hell. If they did, they would not share the truth, the gospel truth. The reason why we share the gospel truth is so that all souls will be saved. The only reason one is punished is because of unbelief. Read your bible: John 3:18 King James Version 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

[@logman8882]

No all loving God would punish anyone for something they didn't know/had no control over.

[@tfordham13]

Well should someone be punished for murder if they never know murder was bad?

[@patrickbarnes9874]

So you don't believe God exists, but you somehow know what God would do. Do you realize how crazy that is?

[@tfordham13]

@patrickbarnes9874 because a alp loving god would be all loving and sending people to hell isn't loving

[@johnmudd6453]

Didn't God make them do it in the first place

[@kryssialbulov2215]

Yahshewa says every human will hear the word of God be4 He does all the lovely things Revelations says He'll do.

[@SilverSixpence888]

If hell were real, you'd think god would have told his chosen people about it.

[@averagefanenjoyer8696]

If they can make stuff up about hell, I can too. Hell is where all the people who hate other people for being gay or trans or a different skin color end up so they can get all the hate burned out of them over the course of a week.

[@Bhoddisatva]

At least a Hell that purifies you of your vices so you can move on as a better person makes more sense than a Hell that you are pointlessly tortured for eternity in.

[@oto_is_dead]

Still more loving than the biblical god

[@johnrangi4830]

​@@oto_is_deadyep

[@atraxisdarkstar]

In the Planescape setting in D&D, your alignment upon death decides which afterlife you're sent to. People who love to fight are sent to an endless arena. People who love nature are sent to a universal garden, etc, etc. So what would be a hell for one group would be heaven for another.

[@CteCrassus]

@@atraxisdarkstar In Forgotten Realms, your afterlife is determined by your patron God, which can vary depending on how nice the god is and/or how much it likes you. If you have no patron to vouch for you however, you end up as living mortar for a magic wall that surrounds the God of Death's domain, which was built by the previous God of Death because he was an evil asshole who believed mortals owe the gods reverence.

[@PadraigG8]

I heard the whole 'sinning in Hell' point from William Lane Craig once. My first thought was 'shouldn't that mean it's theoretically possible to get out of Hell for good behaviour?'

[@Uryvichk]

Yeah, like, what if someone doesn't sin ENOUGH in Hell to remain there? Like they sin in Hell at exactly 99% of the required sinfulness to hit Hell Equilibrium, and after trillions of years, they've technically been punished for all of their sins. What then, God?

[@goldenalt3166]

This apologetic tactically admits that noone in hell ever chooses heaven. How bad must heaven be?

[@jursamaj]

Yes, but in practice nobody does. Of course that's a contradiction, just like saying people freely chose to sin, but nobody will ever choose to not sin at all.

[@francesconicoletti2547]

Or more broadly, what happens at death, from gods point of view, to humans, that his response to our moral choices changes ? God cannot be that interested in our fleshy being it only last for a few decades not eternity like our souls. Bodies are only a source of temptation, most of the sins involve bodies it’s obviously easier to be moral without one and with all of eternity to be body less in perhaps that is the time for god to judge us.

[@PadraigG8]

​@@jursamaj Exactly, if Hell's eternal and most everyone goes there, then sooner or later someone's gonna manage it just on sheer probability.

[@Venaloid]

19:50 - So if you have an abusive parent who punishes you for trivial things... well, maybe those trivial things actually are the worst things in the world! Like not loving that parent! Mike Winger is straight up justifying abuse.

[@Pepsimaaann]

One of the things that took me out of accepting religion was the dissonance in saying that God is all good but then telling all of the completely cruel actions he apparently takes and it's amazing how people don't see that. I talk a lot about my questions about religion with my mom that's still a Christian but more open to criticism and the idea that religion isn't just the bible and what I always come back to is that I wish that people at least were able to acknowledge that the idea of god that they have is not of an all good being but a vengeful one. I like how Greek mythology doesn't make gods perfect beings

[@jursamaj]

From a logical standpoint, christians really screwed themselves when they decided God was perfect. There is just so much about the world (and the bible) that is inconsistent with a perfect being existing.

[@glenliesegang233]

Listen to the evidence which the people who have survived hellish NDE provide. And, how they escaped from the neurologically induced nightmare hallucination which no amount of willpower could awaken them from.

[@deanjustdean7818]

The god of the babble is not a good person. It really is as simple as that. If they really existed, they would be in the bad place right next to Adolf or Pol Pot.

[@arspsychologia4401]

The gods in Greek mythology are created beings, and thus not like the Christian God. What actions did you find to be cruel?

[@Pepsimaaann]

@@arspsychologia4401 the numerous acts of killing children to punish the sins of their parents. Seeing as children are considered pure and without sin it's unnecessarily cruel to take their lives for the sins of someone else. Like in the story of the 10 plagues

[@searchforsecretdoors]

Yep, this new style is definitely working for you! Love it!

[@hunterchristian8372]

I just want to say that I've been subscribed to you for several years and it's so amazing to finally see you unmasked. You're a handsome guy and have a lot of charisma, and showing yourself will only make your channel better!

[@BillGarrett]

I feel like he's got exactly the right name for his preferred apologetic style, because so much of this explanation sounds like he's Winging it

[@DoloresLehmann]

Apart from the fact that being OK with torture in any way is an absolute no-go, I'd like to add the fact that a moral standard based on reward and punishment is the LOWEST form of morality, something that's only considered permissible for beings who are not able to grasp a higher concept. That's why it's usually the method chosen to train animals. The mentality behind it is something like: "You don't have to understand why, just do this thing and you will get a pleasant experience, avoid this other thing or you will get an unpleasant experience." The very notion that the supposedly supreme being in the universe works like this is ridiculous. I'm a Christian, by the way.

[@AngryReptileKeeper]

It's primitive and animalistic, and I have a difficult time reconciling how humans, with our highly-evolved brains, can still cling so ardently to the same base thought process of a squirrel in order to decide how we ought to conduct ourselves among other humans. Are we not supposed to be better than that by now?

[@DoloresLehmann]

@@AngryReptileKeeper Oh, we are. We absolutely are. It's just that our brains have not developped consistently in all functions at the same time. We still have very ancient responses embedded which may have served us well during certain stages of existence, but are unnecessary, inconvenient or outright dangerous now. So, we absolutely developped the capacity to reach higher levels of thought processes, it's just that, for several reasons, not all of us do, at least not in all areas of our lives. We can cling to mutually exclusive concepts at the same time. Like, in this case, believing that torture is a horrible thing (absolutely a progess), and at the same time that a perfect God is justified in using it (absolutely ancient viewpoint). That doesn't make sense, you would think everyone would get that, and yet, they don't. I always say it baffles me how one and the same species can be the most intelligent and yet the most stupid to ever walk the Earth. Oh, and what reptiles do you keep, by the way? Just out of curiosity. I used to breed snakes for a time in my life.

[@tendertende]

Thank you, Papa Zod. That little pep talk at the end really really hit home for me. This topic is something I often struggle with even 6+ years out of Christianity. Fear of hell was ingrained so deeply in me from literal birth and combatting it is tough some days. Thanks for giving us some tools to fight back against those echoing voices in our heads. Here's to building more callouses.

[@jenna2431]

These folks are so enamored by their reveling in "Told you so", but can never account for how heaven's residents will react to friends and family suffering forever.

[@katiacritten9975]

I've been told on more than one occasion that people in heaven are brainwashed to where they'll not care about the suffering of those in hell. Course that's not the language they used but that's the unvarnished version of their thesis

[@adafrost6276]

@@katiacritten9975 Yeah, I grew up in a super conservative church and the gist of it is that you'll pretty much not even be you as your mind and spirit are separate. Most evangelical sects believe in some sort of dualist view where when you go to heaven, you're not really the "physical" self are on Earth but instead you're the "spiritual" self that is pure and of god's image, so you won't have the memories of your existence on Earth and instead of just a devotion to god. Sounds way worse than any hell could be if you ask me, you're not even you as we understand the concept of self at all and instead just a worshiping zombie for all eternity.

[@charmmesilly1000]

The church i grew up in said that god would “open the books” (which from what i remember was a log of everything, anyone has ever done) and show your loved ones exactly what it is you did or didn’t do that kept you out of heaven. After reading this account, your loved ones would be accepting of your fate, believe god is just in his decision, and ultimately lose any sadness that you’re not there. On a side note, the church i grew up in also didn’t believe in an all burning hell where people are tortured forever. They believed the unrighteous would be annihilated by fire and cease to exist. So that interpretation may have also eased some people’s stress of their loved ones not making it.

[@randomusername3873]

I'm more and more convinced that in order to be religious you need to be without emphaty

[@wittykittywoes]

@@katiacritten9975i was just told i wouldn’t be able to remember them and i would be happy without knowing their suffering which. is also an idea alright

[@joshualavender]

The new format works well! Now that I'm seeing your facial expressions rather than over-gesticulation, it's much easier to follow what you're saying. You sound more natural and relaxed. Thanks for coming out from behind the static mask! It's amazing that someone as well-spoken as Mike Winger has constructed such a lot of pretzel logic to wave away God's cruelty in creating Hell. Apart from what he does as an apologist, Mike seems like a reasonable, well-meaning man, and I'd bet in everyday life he's not a bad person at all. It's sad that he's walked so far away from who he might be, if only he didn't feel compelled to defend the indefensible. I recall, as a kid in church, being simultaneously terrified of Hell and deeply disturbed by the idea that Hell was supposed to be divine justice at work. I couldn't put my finger on why it so disturbed me for a long time. Bit by bit, I realized it didn't square with anything else I was told about God. Of course, that didn't keep me from being terrified, even in adulthood. For a lit course in college, I read Jonathan Edwards's sermon "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" - my, didn't that give me the heebie-jeebies for a while!

[@JewelEzra]

I liked Zod but I couldn't watch his other format. I'm really enjoying him now.

[@AdalbertPtak]

Always did, always will. Listening to this, once more shows me how right I was, getting away from Christianity and all religion as a young teenager. Now, that I am 92, I am ever so glad I did it.

[@MrWeezer55]

True Christians (TM) just want to be able to chuckle while they think about us burning forever.

[@thegracklepeck]

Some of them genuinely do. I've met some that bragged about wanting to see people burning forever like it was going to be the best show. I remember being horrified at the very idea.

[@paulgemme6056]

@@thegracklepeck Loving God/Jesus Christ (having faith) has nothing to do with fear, it everything to do with admiration. Knowing that a magnificent Creator God/Jesus Christ loves you enough to die for you and pay the price for your redemption. AMAZING GRACE! No true born-again believer would ever glee in the fact that souls go to hell. If they did, they would not share the truth, the gospel truth. The reason why we share the gospel truth is so that all souls will be saved. The only reason one is punished is because of unbelief. Read your bible: John 3:18 King James Version 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

[@Tralgen]

Hell: An idea made up by others that caused a fair bit of pain to me in my adolescence and early 20's Then I found furries, and things got a lot better. Go figure.

[@shassett79]

Unexpectedly wholesome

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

The Christians would say, it's not about your life being good. In fact, you need to suffer for God.

[@wittykittywoes]

@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessrsome churches actively demonize feeling “good” and say if you leave it will feel amazing but you will go to HELL regardless. Which is mentally really damaging. :)

[@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr]

@@wittykittywoes If you feel good, that's you being selfish.

[@gamd666]

​@@wittykittywoesFeels like some denominations really just push the narrative that you should hate being human and only have emotions/feelings that are positive only if they pertain to god and feel shame of existence the rest of your life outside of the church... making a funny little loop that reinforces the faith over and over because it's playing on human emotion/feelings.

[@sandracraft517]

The callus I developed about Hell was just how culty the whole thing sounded the longer I was away from the church. I listen to people like Winger now and can't believe I even tried to take such things seriously once.

[@blueeyedchippewa8271]

Letting go of the fear of hell was the most freeing thing for me! My great grandma was forcibly converted at a residential school. Hell is the last, and biggest argument they have to control a person. Also - nice to see your face! 😊 It's a good face, Mr. Prophet.

[@antilaw9911]

Exactly why I became atheist. They try to make it about God's love, but the real reason is they fear he'll and punishment

[@AngryReptileKeeper]

"Hell is the last, and biggest argument they have to control a person." Reminds me of a George Orwell quote: "All tyrannies rule through fraud and force, but once the fraud is exposed, they must rely exclusively on force”

[@patrickbarnes9874]

Your experience is your experience. It isn't a universal fact. Just because you weren't able to handle the idea of hell doesn't mean Christians in general use it to control people. Speak for yourself when you're talking about matters you couldn't possibly know. You have no access to the motivations of others so your claim here is an empty assertion and nothing more.

[@The_Other_Ghost]

The best looking youtuber imo. Keep making epic videos as always.

[@gearaddictclimber2524]

Been following you for a while. Loving the way your content has changed recently. Recording your face is a wise decision, as I think it makes you more personable, and the non-scripted stuff feels much more natural - you have a rather good speaking voice! Keep it up :)

[@klhaldane]

If part of the purpose of punishment is to make people realise how bad their actions are, there is still no point in inflicting punishment forever after you die. It's not like you can amend your previous behaviours, and even if you did you're still in hell forever.

[@christopherconkright1317]

There’s no hate like Christian love.

[@antondovydaitis2261]

According to the Book of the Sub-Genius, Jehovah is an Alien Who Still Threatens Mankind!

[@christopherconkright1317]

@@antondovydaitis2261 lol true

[@thepubliusproject]

I am so glad you are here. I am so glad you put effort into this. The world is a better place because you are present in it, and willing to engage it. Thank you.

[@mattmorehouse9685]

Thank you Prophet of Zod. You're a better man than god.

[@heiyuall]

Winger isn’t about information. He’s about cruelty as a commodity.

[@ibrahimalharbi3358]

"Staying there forever, as long as the heavens and the earth will endure, except what your Lord wills.1 Surely your Lord does what He intends." Deny God is optional! Deny creator is madness! Who don't know or misleading about his creator never go to Hell for just luck of facts (Ramadan Mabark)

[@martin2289]

The audacious temerity of people like Winger authoritatively pontificating about the "afterlife" never fails to be shocking to those of us who require solid evidence, sound logic, demonstrable facts, and other such basic prerequisites be satisfied prior to committing our meagre supply of "faith" to compound belief in a notion considered to be "true" insofar as it comports with materialistic reality.

[@glenliesegang233]

run to those who had hellish NDEs while clinically dead

[@ob2249]

agreed but he`s d0ing a great j0b, as aII ap0I0gists are, exp0sing h0w fIexibIe m0raIity is the c0re 0f christianity and h0w infantiIe their arguments reaIIy are ap0I0gists seem t0 be 0bIivi0us t0 the damage they d0 t0 the aIready weak credibiIity 0f christians "sch0Iarship" s0 I`m happy f0r him t0 keep sh0wing us h0w disc0nnected fr0m reaIity he is there`s f0rmer christians c0mmenting here h0w his smug n0nsense heIped get them 0ut 0f the faith mike " the " winger is an atheist aIIy

[@r0cketm00se3]

The worst part about it is they aren't even trying to establish their arguments based on facts, it's purely a speculative thing surrounding a couple of vague verses they draw many conclusions from, in addition to the constant use of a parable from Jesus to describe the literal afterlife when even Jesus' own words in surrounding text don't establish a consistent idea of what happens. "This is how it is" is a lot less convincing when you're keenly aware of the (very short) list of verses in the bible that refer to the afterlife. It's so bad in fact that they usually translate death to hell in order to invent more subject matter surrounding it, and to expand upon the source material with which they use to extrapolate and invent this kind of theology. The entire OT has to be this way due to the lack of afterlife belief, and the translation of the word "Sheol" to mean "hell" instead of grave or death. So little information on it, and yet it's what they spend the most time talking about, as if it's more significant than conjecture about how many elves survived the battle of Helm's Deep, or if Luke Skywalker actually had a wife named Mara Jade.

[@julietfischer5056]

There's an original _Twilight Zone_ episode titled _A Nice Place to Visit._ An all-around criminal dies in a shootout and ends up in what he thinks must be Heaven because he always wins at gambling, has all the women he wants, and no police to worry about. Then he gets bored with always winning, with being able to rob banks without being caught, and having any woman he desires. His host, Mister Pip, reveals that he's actually in Hell. I imagine these people meeting Mister Pip, getting the world they think want (personalized for them), and discovering they're in Hell.

[@patrickbarnes9874]

The almost universal tendency of people such as you to be unable to distinguish between the physical and the transcendent makes your condescending attitudes doubly annoying. You appear to think you're intellectually superior while being unaware of fundamentally basic category errors. Asking for material evidence to substantiate claims about a being that exists outside of time and space should be immediately and obviously ludicrous, but I'd say about 99.95% of atheists I've seen make this error consistently.

[@lisaspikes4291]

In the show Supernatural, one of the things Crowley, the King of Hell, uses to torture people is making them wait in line! 🤣 I think that’s pretty funny in a perverse sort of way.

[@taylorjohnson2490]

Lol i think about in AHS: Coven the witches get sent to their hells i guess and one of them is like a popeyes cashier with an infinite, never-ending line of customers

[@macrumpton]

Every DMV office is a minor branch of hell.

[@realrealwarpet]

To be fair, after so much time being tortured, your mind might snap. Rather then pain, it might feel good.

[@youtubestudiosucks978]

Isnt that called mindbreak? That's from hentai

[@realrealwarpet]

@@youtubestudiosucks978 yup. With eternity, its bound to happen

[@88marome]

Subspace

[@DivineInferno]

You are in Hell, as Jesus said. "Life without a God is Hell"

[@youtubestudiosucks978]

@@DivineInferno so jesus is forcing hentai tropes on people who dont believe in him? Dude, that's still rape

[@stevinhenrichs6146]

There is no Hell!!! We go back to dust when we die. Death is simply the end of life.

[@Prelude-vs5vi]

You're full of baloney. Don't talk about stuff you know nothing about.

[@M5arkHunt]

Been following this channel for some time and I love that you went for the "face revealed talking to the camera" format. It suits you really well and I hope you keep at it.

[@DawnDavidson]

As a first time viewer of the channel, I don’t know what you did before, but I like seeing your face and found the segment quite approachable. Plus, I’m a sucker for a neatly trimmed beard. 😂 Thanks for the video. Some excellent thoughts and very clear pointing out how illogical this stuff is.

[@julietfischer5056]

@@DawnDavidson- He used to replace his face with static, or a mask with static-hidden eye-holes.

[@davidsullens]

I really like that you don’t have the static going on here. Not sure if you have been doing this for a while. It makes sharing this with my Christian friends something that they will take with a little more seriousness.

[@mcawesomeytyo3312]

Hell is just an NDE nightmare. It can be avoided by doing 3 simple things, A) not believing in it (We have no reason to fear something that doesn’t exist), B) Prescribed therapy for RTS (Religious Trauma Syndrome) (Ingrained traumatic beliefs and energy blockages are hard to recover from on your own), C) **Most effective** Not giving a f**k (best technique, people who live life to the fullest will see a heavenly NDE). At the end of the day, no one is actually going to hell.

[@goblingunk_]

I love the conclusion you came to at the end and its something I keep going back to as I work through my deconstruction-- that nobody really knows anything about this stuff and they're just talking out of their ass. Just because someone claims to understand the big questions about life, and just because they manipulate you and trigger your fears instilled in childhood, doesn't mean they are right. People lie, and people believe what is convenient for them.

[@mattmorehouse9685]

Indeed! I'm reminded of CS Lewises trilemma, that Jesus must either be a liar, a lunatic or lord (god). Of course Lewis completely botches this when he assumes the people following our possible liar wouldn't lie themselves about how he supposedly died and rose. He assumes that the Bible must be true... because??? That and he ignores that the disciples could be mistaken, spreading a legend they think is true, but that is, in fact, false.

[@leslieyancey5084]

Theists with this kind of mindset tend to be obsessed with how much they sin. I think it’s because so much pleasure is off limits to them that that’s literally all they can think about.

[@patrickbarnes9874]

At least you said "with this kind of mindset" and "I think it's because..." I'm impressed. It's sad that I am impressed, because what you did is simply engage in proper discourse. That should be the norm, but from what I've seen here it's definitely a rare exception. Every other comment on this video I've seen so far has been intellectually illegitimate because every last one of them either takes their reaction to Winger generalizes it to most or all Christians or states their opinions as facts. Many of them do both. It's hard to take atheist claims to be rational seriously when they are incapable in mass numbers of refraining from overgeneralization and distinguishing between fact and opinion.

[@andrewferg8737]

"pleasure is off limits to them that that’s literally all they can think about" --- So you are suggesting that addiction prevents obsession?

[@michaelbeaudoin1518]

I really love your videos, and I appreciate the new format. It’s good to see your face! 😄

[@megzasaurusrex]

You mentioned briefly the things religious people can post on FB. And I wanted to say how much the double standard annoys me. My parents don't mind I have my own view points too much but they do get on to me constantly for sharing them. They tell me I know our family is religious and I'm upsetting them. Yet it's okay for my religious family to post things that would upset me or bash atheists. I just deleted all of them. Because I'm not doing that. But I live in a religious area and everyone acts like I'm suppose to hide I'm atheist or play along. Even at work people leave bibles or religious quotes or talk about it. I'm just over the whole double standard and our feelings mattering less.

[@mattmorehouse9685]

In my experience as an atheist with somewhat religious family members, they aren't very good at consistently following their own rules. That and, like Winger, they make stuff up all the time. My dad said he doesn't believe anyone, except, maybe the genocidal goes to hell. From my knowledge he hasn't read anything in the Bible, but he "believes."

[@fred_derf]

Mike seems awfully gleeful discussing the idea that billions of people will (are?) be tortured forever for something as simple as eating a shrimp or wearing the wrong shirt.

[@AngryReptileKeeper]

Not to mention the countless humans who existed before Christianity was a thing. Not believing is a mortal sin, but there was not Christ or Christianity to believe in at that point. Talk about a catch-22.

[@patrickbarnes9874]

When you engage in this extreme level of strawmanning, you accomplish the opposite of what you intended. The natural reaction to a comment as blatantly fallacious as yours is to assume the original statement is probably accurate if your attempt at debunking it had to resort to bald faced fabrication. I say this even though I think Winger's ideas are absurd. His arguments were poor, but your response was worse.

[@spacebook8923]

@@patrickbarnes9874you really think this comment is worse than the sociopathic garbage Mike vomited out his mouth in this video?

[@hannotn]

@@AngryReptileKeeper Don't forget the intellectually impaired, who aren't able to process the understanding of Christianity and therefore can't form the required belief. Into the furnace with you guys, too. When this subject comes up on atheist sites, I'm always impressed at how consistent it is that Christian commenters show real malicious pleasure at the notion of others being punished. A punitive mindset seems so totally ingrained in many (most?) religionists and I wonder whether some are even aware of it themselves and how aberrant and unhealthy it is to view the majority of those you share the planet with as mere fuel for the fires of hell.

[@ob2249]

@@patrickbarnes9874 c0untIess humans did exist bef0re y0ur christ with0ut kn0wIedge 0f him s0 d0 they get 0ff sin free ? its a reas0nabIe questi0n c0untIess humans existed with their 0wn creati0n myths which pre date y0ur invisibIe man st0ry d0 they get retr0 fitted t0 y0ur system ? are there neanderthaI men and w0men in heaven and heII ?

[@noracola5285]

The vindictiveness and cruelty of the horrors of hell are directly proportional to the emotional and intellectual insecurity of the adherent who promotes it. It's the fear response of a narcissistic mind threatened with vulnerability.

[@PourLeCorps]

I saw you in Walmart a couple weeks ago and thought I had recognized you when I saw you, but it was too late, wished I had said hi! Love the videos!

[@Ploskkky]

Delusion gets a new meaning while watching Mike Winger.

[@billyboomstick8657]

“Somewhat coherent excuses” your giving them faaaaaar too much credit there bro 👊 😂

[@codylovescarley90]

"a crummy attitude about it" killed me.

[@lightningfirst689]

That ending is beautiful. Taking Mike's hideous ramblings and actually wringing a positive message out of them. (One that Mike himself definitely wouldn't be down with.)

[@randomusername3873]

The precisation got me 😂

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

I'm as afraid of hell as i am of someone punching me in my Aura

[@EnglishMike]

I'm more likely to be killed by a meteorite falling from space than I am to go to Hell (or any afterlife).

[@gothboschincarnate3931]

whats a punch in the Aura feel like? ive gotten energetically punched...and sometimes peoples auras are thick and fluctuate to the sound of the music they are listening to at the time. but never felt a punch to the aura....hmm...lol....I think i just described a punch to the aura...didn't I...never mind...

[@sbushido5547]

Good lord, that divorce analogy was absolutely terrible. But this guy talking about getting used to "sinning," while half the content I see from is hateful garbage, is a bit...telling. He probably doesn't even consider the harm his beliefs are causing to people anymore. If he ever did.

[@mattmorehouse9685]

He comes off as a grade a scumbag. Then again, I find most Christians creepy, for precisely this reason. When I brought up the whole eternal torture thing to my dad, he blustered "That's what I believe!" I feel like I should take him at his word, but I live in the shithole that is the US of A so most people believe in hell. But my dad says he doesn't believe I'm going to hell.

[@webjunke]

I've been following you for a few years now and I much prefer this format. Thanks for all your content!

[@Jorvalt]

I'm actually surprised that this guy addresses the point of "infinite punishment for a finite crime" and then his reasoning is... completely nonsensical. Like, what? "The level of punishment is still proportional to the sin" so? It's still infinite. It's like a math nerd saying "well there are different kinds of infinity, if you count by whole numbers that's smaller than counting by 0.5 and larger than counting by twos" and?? It's still infinite. If you're tickle tortured for infinity or stabbed with knives for infinity it's still infinite torture no matter how you slice it.

[@jimbob8992]

No, Mike doesn't 'seem' demented. He's a grown adult who is clearly demented.

[@patrickbarnes9874]

I think you're the one who is clearly demented. See, you're not the only one who can make rude comments devoid of all useful content.

[@damianwhite504]

And disturbing with a grin and childish chuckle

[@ChixieMary]

We have free will in hell? In Heaven? How does any of this work after we're dead? All these punishments only work with a live body. Its all pathetically insane. ❤ Ya Zod

[@irrelevant_noob]

Apparently, that was just the narrative quality at the time these stories were forming... ^^

[@gothboschincarnate3931]

Heaven is unlimited and free. Hell is not. Hell is up, 4th spiritual dimension. 5.0 is the border of heaven. 5.1 is a sort of purgatory. a place of reconciliation and healing. 5.2 is low heaven. 5.3 high heaven. 5.4 is gods realm. what else do you want to know?

[@ChixieMary]

@@gothboschincarnate3931 Heaven and hell are fantasy, so I guess you can make up whatever you want. 🤔

[@gothboschincarnate3931]

How do you connect to something that isn't real? Donna Douglas told me i weigh 168 once. Can imagination tell you how much you weigh with accuracy? @@ChixieMary

[@ChixieMary]

@@gothboschincarnate3931 if something isn't real, there's nothing to connect with. Literally. The story is nonsensical.

[@CJandEllie]

I am a Christian but I love hearing all these different opinions. I am not afraid of questions.

[@codybennett5305]

Im really loving the new style of videos

[@MrCanis4]

Anyone who claims to know anything about hell is a liar or a fool or a prankster. BTW, the same goes for heaven.

[@gothboschincarnate3931]

I'm not a prankster... just ask Donna Douglas or Karra.

[@MrCanis4]

@rboland2173 I can agree on this totally. And how can anyone know ANYTHING after your death. NO ONE ever came back from being dead.

[@robtbo]

How desensitized to human suffering do you have to be to literally approve of it. Especially for basic human emotions like lust and anger? If you’re actually that desensitized… how can the threat of torment in Hell even be something to fear? “That’s just what I deserve for getting angry at the guy who murdered my family.” This ties in well with Mindshift’s most recent mini.

[@MichaelMurphy-jc4ek]

I like the face revealed vids. You’ve got such good facial hair. I’m jealous.

[@barrygormley3986]

My favourite interpretation of the doctrine of hell is that this is an elaborate test to see who is truly moral, and the ones that pass are actually those who would reject heaven on the basis that they can’t be happy with the idea of other people suffering for eternity. Granted, this isn’t so much an interpretation as a thought experiment invented by non-believers, but it sure sounds better than any justification Christians have come up.

[@LouLouLion]

Oh Christians have a fix for that! I was told that you won't have any memory of loved ones who went to hell. That was even more devastating to me. What if my kids didn't believe? I'd never known they existed?? Insanity. I can't believe I believed it. 😂

[@nerowolfe5175]

I have wondered: what if the "test" is "Will you run around and hide behind Jesus to save your evil little necks, or will you be a stand-up person and take responsibility for your actions?"

[@AngryReptileKeeper]

My favorite conspiracy theory is that the being the Abrahamic faiths worship as "God" is the real bad guy, and is actually "The Great Deceiver" referred to in the bible.

[@barrygormley3986]

Basically Gnosticism.

[@julietfischer5056]

@@AngryReptileKeeper- Gnosticism and the faith of the Yezidi people.

[@AgcidentallyAgnostic]

I expect I will, in fact, have a crummy attitude after burning for 2 million years. Not to mention, I’ll probably be real hangry.

[@jmi967]

Never thought of it this way. Is God in hell? He’s broken every law he’s ever made after all.

[@hatuletoh]

I'm in a place of doubt...that every single detail I assume about the horrific concepts of an imaginary place are entirely correct. It's called HUMILITY, mofo, and other than perceptiveneness, insight, intelligence, and charisma, humility is my best trait.

[@ColinWrubleski-eq5sh]

"You are modest, and you have plenty to be modest about."

[@markfischer5044]

I love how generous you are to those you are examining!

[@davexmit]

“The victims of that murderer must have done something really bad.”

[@Camerinus]

Mike Winger always seems to be talking to kids rather than adults with some experience in life.

[@utubepunk]

Good observation. I think it stems from his arrogance.

[@Uryvichk]

@@utubepunk I think he's just a grifter and is aiming for the lowest common denominator. Says a lot about his audience that the lowest common denominator has the reasoning skills of actual children, though.

[@kayb9979]

Yes. If pride is the worst sin he has it in buckets.

[@Joe-uk3rg]

Youth group leader vibes

[@JDrocks4ever]

Well it’s not their fault. They’re commanded to have child-like faith

[@Gowalkabout]

The most innocuous and minor sins result in the same infinite torment as the most serious and heinous sins. WTF

[@gabriel-ns-2354]

Apparently god doesn’t give 2 shits about the difference between someone who just hacked someone’s head off in broad daylight for no reason and someone who’s only singular fault in life is not believing he exists.

[@Gowalkabout]

@@gabriel-ns-2354 That’s the cognitive dissonance of Christianity.

[@jmaniak1]

Mike was successful at one thing. Convincing me that he is a sad and horrible person for justifying the atrocities in the Bible.

[@AngryReptileKeeper]

It honestly says a lot about anyone who _wants_ to believe in and worship such a thing.

[@Prelude-vs5vi]

I want Mike Winger to taste his own medicine & I'd have no problem giving it to him.

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

In the comments, let's make up ideas on why vishnu is justified in causing mike winger to be reincarnated as a tape worm. But hey, Let's not make assumptions.

[@irrelevant_noob]

Don't you know?! Vishnu works in mysterious ways, it's not our place to question his decisions... 😏

[@mrjayz94]

If you look into how the concept of hell was developed over time, you will lose the fear of hell. Bart Ehrman is a good place to start.

[@jovankamoga3556]

Its good seeing your face for the first time. I always thought you were around 35! This is amazing