When Christians Try to Trick You Using Wordplay

[@atomicemerson2733]

As Jordan Peterson has taught us, if you agonize over the definition of every word until nothing can reasonably mean anything, everything you believe for no reason becomes true.

[@shassett79]

What do you mean by "as?" What do you mean by "Jordan?" What do you mean by "Peterson!?"

[@goonerbear8659]

What do you mean by "has?" What do you mean by "taught?" What do you mean by "us?"

[@fukpoeslaw3613]

​@@shassett79what do you mean by "do" *and also* what do you mean by "mean"? Peterson once actually asked: "what do you mean by *do* ?" and then: "what do you mean by *believe* ?

[@utubepunk]

100%! Then he'll just nonchalantly mention the metaphorical substrate or some other nonsense.

[@r.a.boesenberg2958]

...because: Lobster Hierarchies

[@PipRLagenta]

"I played a word game, therefore God." Basic apologetics.

[@vex1669]

I'm seriously annoyed that these tactics work.

[@SlowMotionAtheist000]

All of apologetics.

[@TheSkyGuy77]

It's all so tiresome

[@Simon.the.Likeable]

@@vex1669 "There's a sucker born every minute." These tactics only work when the big hand passes twelve.

[@CorbinB-Rax]

​@@SlowMotionAtheist000 Both of you cap out at 24 years old. The level of strawman it takes to make your comment about your philosophical opposites, is tantamount.. parallel to.. saying "all of Grappling is useless and only for people who can't fight" You couldn't be more willfully incorrect, dishonest, and lazy if you made it a point to. And I'm an anti-theist of the highest order. You're just a disingenuous clown who can't make an argument for even his strongest topics. You or the op. Or you'd never make comments like that.

[@puckerings]

According to his reasoning since rocks and humans were both made by his god, there is no difference between rocks and humans.

[@Llortnerof]

Well, i'm perfectly willing to agree that there is no difference between jimbob and a rock except that jimbob is louder.

[@KianaWolf]

@@Llortnerof An insult to rocks.

[@Llortnerof]

@@KianaWolf Fine, the rock is probaly also smarter.

[@senorbb2150]

Well God did make the man out of clay, so, there's that.

[@tgypoi]

Some people are as dumb as rocks, so there's that.

[@michaelsommers2356]

I don't see the point of arguing against atheism. All he should have to do is introduce us to his god. Theists have got to stop trying to prove atheists wrong; they've got to start demonstrating, by empirical evidence, that they are right.

[@craigsmith1443]

We do, and you don't like that, either.

[@michaelsommers2356]

@@craigsmith1443 -Wjpo- Who are "we", and what do you do? What don't I like? You are being unclear.

[@lastx2534]

@@craigsmith1443 news to me. When was this? Who exactly?

[@randomusername3873]

​@@craigsmith1443would you concede you do a terrible job at it?

[@unkaumanguy1439]

​@craigsmith1443 No, you don't. The fact that you don't understand this is what we don't like.

[@dougt7580]

If your god is so flimsy it needs human propagandists to try to argue it into existence, I don't even care whether or not it actually exists.

[@JustDalton]

That’s why The Almighty Jeff®™ is the true creator of the universe. Never heard of him? Exactly. Checkmate, atheists.

[@chrisose]

I was just getting read to post something on the same lines.

[@flwrpwr5351]

The average person doesn't need literature and religion to prove he exists, yet an all powerful being does?

[@utes5532]

Yeah. Why did God use such flimsy ways to make himself apparent to us? He sent some lanky magician to perform parlor tricks thousands of years ago and inspired some nobodies to write his will into a text, and that's supposed to convince the world? He could literally have magicked indestructible bibles with magic text in them that every reader can comprehend and THIS is how he chooses to communicate?

[@dougt7580]

​@@utes5532People's gods are typically really inefficient, ineffective, and often unsuccessful at accomplishing their supposed goals.

[@EluviumMC]

Jimbob doesn't interact with actual atheists, just straw versions.

[@hailsagan8886]

Jimbob is a sociopath. I feel sorry for his wife

[@cindybidwellglaze7698]

Where did he say he had a wife?

[@duncanidaho8234]

Jimbob never left his Mom’s basement in the developmental sense.

[@dyamonde9555]

the way he is talking, he isn't interacting with anything that can be called a reasonable human.

[@DG-cu1vt]

@@hailsagan8886 Somebody married that? She must be deaf in one ear and can't hear out the other.

[@SapientCephalopod]

If theist didn't have semantics they wouldn't have anything.

[@Finckelstein]

They'd still have their hypocrisy.

[@JustDalton]

And cognitive dissonance…

[@dilanbrinkley3587]

And denial of reality

[@brenta2634]

And fallacies...

[@shassett79]

...and MY axe!!

[@danwhite1198]

William Lane Craig comes to mind. Certain apologists use the "Time Out" process where they know the short attention span of the average Theists and use big sounding words to put them to sleep. When they wake up not having a clue what he just rambled on about, they say something like; " Boy WLC really kicked that Atheists ass. "

[@idesel]

😂😂😂

[@brendanallen3759]

When he gets cornered his go-tos are “epistemological” and “ontological” which distracts from heinous ideas like murdering children is a-ok if his god commands it. Followers don’t react with revulsion as any decent person would. Instead they go away with “wow Willie sure does word good.”

[@danielfincher8439]

Pretty sure everyone on average has a short attention span for pointless garbage that makes no sense. Not just theist.

[@kenshiloh]

If you are an atheist, can you define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@Da_bear-ij9gm]

@@danielfincher8439sure but they’re relying on the audience and the speaker having the same pre-determined conclusions regardless of what “evidence” is presented. That is not how things would go down at an atheist meeting (not sure why one would exist but for the sake of argument) about anything contentious in that community, because there is much more variety in thought and no one accepted doctrine

[@panqueque445]

You know apologists are getting desperate when they resort to word salad this convoluted.

[@kenshiloh]

If you are an atheist, can you define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@hail_satan]

They must have been desperate for a long time, then.

[@I_suck-_-so_what]

Nothing new

[@hackman669]

Remeber when McDonald's used to serve salad?😅

[@runewolf77]

That is true! Especially for Lordship salvation!! 🙄

[@newsystembad]

Jimbob's videos are the textbook example for "Nice argument, unfortunately, I have already drawn you as the crying soyjak, and myself as the chad wojak! 🤓 Chyeckmate ayytheisht!"

[@kenshiloh]

If you are an atheist, can you define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@fatguy338]

I agree, but that emoji and speech affect lookin a touch hypocritical lol 🤓

[@newsystembad]

@@fatguy338 Yeah, that's fair, I was in a bit of a mood

[@blesper3415]

No false blade of grass? Dude has never heard of AstroTurf

[@Roxor128]

Which you should avoid like the plague if you care about heat. Fake grass gets stupidly hot in the sun, making the whole area hotter. While a lawn isn't great for keeping your house cool, it's a heap better than fake grass. If you want your house to stay cool in the summer, go nuts with the garden. Trees and shrubs galore make a huge difference. Stand in front of a house with just a lawn and it's several degrees warmer than one with a substantial garden.

[@kenshiloh]

If you are an atheist, can you define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@MasamiPhoenix]

Its a funny joke, but it's also a valid point. Grass can't be true or false. Astroturf is not inherently true or false. But when we conceptualize it as grass, now grass is true grass and Astroturf is false grass. And the cheap knock off of Astroturf is false Astroturf or false false grass. But if you try to pass off a grass field as astroturf, now the true grass is fake Astroturf! Its grass all the way down!

[@rjrmonkey]

Plants are, quite literally, evaporative coolers. They draw water out of the ground, and when that water evaporates away it takes a bit of heat with it.

[@ablejon1470]

All hail the holy green plastic grass! Bow down the glory!

[@ReallyBadJuJu]

Even at my most hardcore libertarian (still Christian at the time as well), in which I believed in complete abolishment of the state and argued things like "taxation is theft" on the internet....I still thought these sovereign citizen guys were absolute nutters.

[@ominous-omnipresent-they]

Taxation is a necessary component of civilization, albeit some could be argued as theft.

[@Multi_Purpose_Weirdo]

Taxation is communal, cooperative problem-solving!

[@chewxieyang4677]

@@ominous-omnipresent-they In antiquity, taxes don't just appear in coinage. It can also take the form of grain, and also in the form of labor in service to the king/lord, both in warfare and in public projects from irrigation canals to palaces. If one can say that taxation is theft, then so is every form of 'shortchanging' of the fruits of the labor, like underpayment of employees.

[@utubepunk]

Dayum.

[@joshridinger3407]

governments are apex mafias, the whole point of the thing is to render consent a non-factor. sov cits are delusional enough to think they can fight that with word-magic.

[@ravenvalentine4919]

ah this jimbob guy, he invited me to his stream and kept calling me boy and kid the entire time we spoke, he pitched my voice so i sound younger and kept using sound boards so no one can hear what i say, when i confronted him about how he does not understand science there for his cartoon does not understand science and that i am a physicist it and thats not how we view cause and effect, he asked me '' how do i know that this cartoon was trying to sound scientific ? i pointed out how he was holding a book of darwin and tried to speak from a scientific paradigm, so he muted me and called me names while saying '' you see the atheist thinks this is a scientist because he is holding a book '' and no one is on his stream over a 100 people pointed out how that is BS, it blew my mind the level of dishonesty he is going for and no one called him on it, i will never forget it, and he still rubs it in my face every time i comment under his videos

[@XraynPR]

I like Rabyds take on Jimbob. He's a propagandist. Nothing more. Its for the better not to engage with him, he demonstrates over and over that he is not worth anyones time.

[@kenshiloh]

Is Jimbob irrational? Yet, if you are an atheist, can you even define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@uNiels_Heart]

@@XraynPR JimBob is like the Nathan Oakley of apologetics

[@jaclo3112]

Jimbob is one of those angry, bitter internet christians. Yet his behaviour is a classic example of biblical and christlike in his dishonesty and strawmanning of those who don't believe his worldview.

[@---yu7ff]

Can you show me where Jimbob hurt you? Do you want me to call your mommy for you?

[@George89999]

Rabyd Atheist recently tried to respectfully point out the flaws in Jimbob's arguments. JimBob kept making dishonest arguments and assertions and eventually resorted to insults. Rabyd apparently came to the conclusion that JimBob is not interested in an honest discourse (the propagandistic style of his animations was already evidence to that effect) and is rather just trying to grow his audience by starting fights with atheist channels. Based on Jimbob's "style" of videos and his comments I have to agree with Rabyd's assessment.

[@dbt5224]

He is a presup. They appear to be incapable of any honesty.

[@George89999]

@@dbt5224 Pretty much. In my opinion presuppositionalist appolgetics is both the laziest and most inherently dishonest form of appolgetics.

[@dougt7580]

​​@@George89999it absolutely is the laziest. You don't have to know any history, you don't have to study any holy books, you don't need to know any theology, you don't ever have to defend any position, you just declare any disagreement with you as invalid by definition and play circular word games.

[@dougt7580]

​@@George89999No wonder the only people who take it seriously are insecure internet edgelord man-toddlers.

[@dyamonde9555]

No one who uses insane arguments like this is interested in honest discourse. One might say the entire point in this video was to kill any discourse by attacking the meaning of language itself.

[@karenbrown938]

The philosopher David Hume said it’s futile to try to reason someone out of their religion, because they believe it out of emotion. Reason has little or nothing to do with it.

[@Bob-b7x6v]

The SCP Foundation uses Hume as a measurement for reality-bending phenomenae/SCP Objects, lol.

[@VyperByteX]

There have been various versions of this kind of quote, credited to numerous people across time. Basically it all stems back to: you can not reason someone out of a position they were not reasoned in to. If the reason someone believes something is not because of reason and logic, logic and reason will not convince them they are wrong.

[@stylesrj]

@@Bob-b7x6v I was going to ask if the Hume in SCP lore was named after a doctor who went missing trying to find a way to measure reality bender power but that was actually a guy named Scranton and his research led to the construction of Reality Anchors...

[@kenshiloh]

If you are an atheist, can you define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@wet-read]

Yeah, but they have a fetish for the word "truth". As if whatever is true is something we would like, obey, etc.

[@jrwtutor]

My conversation can't be yellow, but my journalism can. My prose can even be purple. I am technically correct, the best form of correct! Anyway, thanks PoZ for tackling a topic that needs to be addressed much more often.

[@arc-michaelr9580]

I’m a millennial so my conversation is always dark green with Iron

[@ayuphreek]

Idk, Coldplay said it was all yellow, why can't a conversation be included? Jk

[@kenshiloh]

If you are an atheist, can you define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@irrelevant_noob]

@@arc-michaelr9580 i'm a gen-x-er, so i am blue, if i were green i would die, da-ba-dee da-ba-dye... 🎶

[@Julian0101]

I personally loved how one of jimbob's excuses to people checking his video "im talking in natural language, is not fair for you scrutnize my words for their philosphical meaning!!"

[@kenshiloh]

If you are an atheist, can you define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@Raiden-the-Goat32]

To give Jimbob the benefit of the dought it is true that a word can mean two different things in philosophy and in the general public usage of that same word. Edit I am no longer giving Jimbob the benefit of dought considering I watched more of the video.

[@justaway6901]

I call him the "Vanisher" cause he philosophizes himself out of existence

[@utubepunk]

Sorry. That name is way too cool for BimJob.

[@kenshiloh]

If you are an atheist, can you define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@Agent_Lokii]

Bob is a real piece of work, he deserves pretty much every bit of negative feedback there is. I have a screenshot of him calling someone a complete failure of a human because they called him out for strawmanning the problem of evil as the problem of suffering.

[@kenshiloh]

If you are an atheist, can you define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@craigsmith1443]

The failure of the messenger is not the failure of the message. Enjoy your 'screenshot' (why on earth would you do that?); Entitle it, 'Half the truth.' Now search for the other half.

[@Agent_Lokii]

@@craigsmith1443 @craigsmith1443 nice attempted pithy response, I like it but have a few concerns: Could you clarify what message you're referring to specifically? It may take away from the pithy-ness of it to speak more explicitly, but it seems like you're saying Bob failed as messenger, I agree and I think his message fails too. Also, why did you put screenshot it quotes? It's literally a screenshot. What else do you want me to call it? As for why I took a screenshot, it's simple. I was at the time chatting with Bob and Bob's subscribers in the comments, and a screenshot was the easiest way to reference his actual reprehensible character. I like the title suggestion, I hadn't thought about naming it, cause it IS just a screenshot at the end of the day. I think I'll go with "Jimbob's true colors". Do you disagree? Do you think it's good moral character to call someone a complete failure as a human solely because they disagree with a fundamental premise of your argument?

[@craigsmith1443]

@@Agent_Lokii _Could you clarify what message you're referring to specifically?_ That statement is a principle, not referring to a specific message. It is true even if not specific. A bad messenger who, say, garbles the message does not make the original message nonsensical. _It may take away from the pithy-ness of it to speak more explicitly, but it seems like you're saying Bob failed as messenger, I agree and I think his message fails too_ OK, while we agree on Bob, we apparently do not agree on the message that he is attempting to provide. _Also, why did you put screenshot it quotes?_ It was your word. I just quoted it, not disagreed with it. While I don't know the reason that you, since you disagreed with him, would keep a screenshot of him 'calling someone a complete failure'. It hasn't occurred to me to keep screenshots of angry or flustered atheists (not that keeping screenshots is a bad thing), so I'm curious about your having done so.

[@Agent_Lokii]

@@craigsmith1443 thanks for clarifying a little, I do agree then on the statement generally. But I'm not sure if it clears it up. You agree that Bob failed to convincingly refute the problem of evil with a strawman, but you agree with the message he was trying to deliver?... What is the actual message here? Maybe just that "god exists and the problem of evil just isn't actually a problem" for some reason? That does seem to be the message he was failing at delivering. (Ignoring the pointless/irrelevant side discussion about why you put screenshot in quotes, like you ignored the awesome title of my 'screenshot' 😉)

[@UltraVioletKnight]

JimBob can't tell the difference between the physical process that causes beliefs and what the belief states

[@Oswlek]

Literally, it's right there when he says "evaluating" and shows the brain! 😂🤣 And he also misses the point that, even if the process is as deterministic as a sprouting blade of grass, that doesn't change the fact conclusions formed will still be "true" if they accurately describe reality. It's like an onion of wrong where each new statement exposes another layer of wrongness!

[@Specialeffecks]

Exactly! To a theist it is the believing that makes the thing true/real. The typical order is backwards: "First believe - then is it real". Most of us do it the other way - "see it demonstrated as real, then we believe it." That's why they get the atheist answer to their theist question wrong: Do you believe in God? By saying "no" they think we are saying "no god exists" when we are simply answering the question - we are not holding that belief - one of many can hold/believe (plus we are damned and are likely awful people, and other baggage they are constantly spoon-fed, labeled "truth"). They need to be corrected so they know we are discussing "beliefs", i.e. what is inside one's head - not what exists in reality or not. To a theist, it's the same thing (or even the more important thing, because the most important criteria taught to them is "to believe"). Also, it has become part of their own identity, so it feels to them like a personal attack. It's a wonder any can make it out and deconstruct from the convoluted mental traps they have fallen into.

[@kenshiloh]

If you are an atheist, can you define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@contrafidem884]

This. Do they not understand that our minds make interpretations of reality that benefit from being more accurate? Yes, all thoughts are real, but not all thoughts are "paired" with reality. Books are physical, real objects, but that is entirely different from them holding accurate information.

[@latro8192]

Of course they know all this. They are simply being dishonest.

[@qiae]

This entire argument sounds like Jimbob can't accept the possibility that we arent the super special-est things in the universe

[@kenshiloh]

Is Jimbob irrational? Yet, if you are an atheist, can you even define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@TheZodiacRipper]

The only thing that makes us special, that separates us from every other living being, is that we happen to know that we exist and we really cant deal with the fact that we are so unsignificant that in a hundred years no one will know of you anymore.

[@kenshiloh]

@@TheZodiacRipper Yes, isn't atheism pathetic? For example, you (supposedly) came from nothing, are going to nothing, yet have something to say? Is there any reason for an atheist to even get out of bed in the morning? According to atheism, your life means absolutely zero! It is the most depressed and depraved of all religions. Yet, raised by an atheist, I knew atheism was a lie before I knew John 3.16. Of course, there is more to the human race other than being the only depressed 'animal.' Of course, it is wrong to even insult another person, but perfectly fine to eat chicken. Of course, there is life after death and a God to judge all liars. Of course, Jesus Christ died on a Cross so that we may know and love God. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@rightpa]

Watch out PoZ, this JimBob guy is duplicitous af.

[@newsystembad]

Yeah, guy seems to be a real weaselly PoS

[@kenshiloh]

If you are an atheist, can you define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@grantm6514]

And I'm not sure which is more nauseating, jimbob himself or the adoring groupies who hang around him like a bad smell.

[@IheartDogs55]

I'm downloading and saving this to my Favorites folder. I know I'm the kind of person who gets easily confused by the misapplication of words, especially when thrown at me during a Gish gallop. [Edited for spelling error]

[@AdmiralBison]

fair enough, everyone falls for a con sometime in their lives, but can also eventually grow an immunity for it as well. When I eventually became an Atheist, I would still be hit hard by the emotional manipulations of churches when I visited them, but soon after I learned to recognize and ignore it. I then saw Religion for what it ultimately was....a cult and scam.

[@ukimenustah26]

You can download from KZbin?

[@ericg3415]

​@@ukimenustah26One can download from KZbin but I think the premium add free subscription is required. But that does also allow the app to play in the background as well

[@SLAP1FACE]

​You can download from anywhere if ur clever.​@@ukimenustah26

[@kenshiloh]

If you are an atheist, can you define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@janmango4692]

I'm European and every time I heard the word "apologist" I assumed this were Christians who would apologize for having believed such ludicrous nonsense.

[@nescade5663]

It is strange, because generally to “apologize” for something inherently has a negative connection, that you’re trying to fix something that is wrong.

[@nescade5663]

It just makes me wonder why people would willingly label themselves with such an inherently negative title/descriptor

[@arvidlystnur4827]

I can't remember who but some deconversionist stated that the term apologist has nothing to do with an apology but is based on some ancient Greek terminology that's reduced to APO.

[@narnilphilomythus2821]

@@nescade5663 It comes from the ancient Greek word "apologia", which originally meant an argument given by someone in their own defense. A citizen accused of misconduct might give an "apologia", explaining why their actions were justified. "Apologia" would descend to us in modern English via Latin and French as apology, apologist, and apologetics. In the 16th century, around the time of William Shakespeare, the common usage of the word apology shifted from someone making a defense for their beliefs and actions and instead admitting to their own errors and attempting to rectify them. However, the related terms of apologist and apologetics, due to seldom being used outside religious or political rhetoric, maintain their origin meaning and have over time largely come to be solely associated with an (allegedly) rational defense given on behalf of religious doctrine. In other words, religious fundamentalists are too stubborn to change the terminology surrounding their arguments, even after 500 years of culture change now makes that terminology seem bizarre and counter-intuitive. Which is par for the course really.

[@inthedark334]

www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/21/21-7237/215263/20220301155927765_20220301-153600-00002217-00002863.pdf

[@scarlett8960]

It is funny to me that apologists can talk about thinking and thoughts in this way when we are getting such good data on how our brains work, how they store memories, what parts of the brains conduct what activities, and even consciousness. Reducing it all down to 'physics' and 'chemistry' is beyond reductive since we have this field called neuroscience with all its scans of brains doing various mental activities. Using his "argument" though, it is 'true' that we have brains and it is 'true' that brains carry out mental tasks, but that has nothing to do with whether those thoughts are true (ie comport with reality)

[@robertnelson5645]

Would his attempted argument be a composition fallacy? I don't know, I'm just asking, because it really seems so, but I'm not familiar enough with such things to be confident about it.

[@Multi_Purpose_Weirdo]

*clutching the covers over my head* Me: Cognitive neuroscience isn't real. Cognitive neuroscience can't hurt me. Cognitive Neuroscience: RRRRRAAAAARGH!

[@kenshiloh]

If you are an atheist, can you define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@UltraVioletKnight]

Dumbob must argue for a platonic realm of forms, just stating a magic man exist doesn't cause truth to magically become an aspect of the universe

[@BarkleyBCooltimes]

This guy has the same energy as "Train A leaves Station B as 12:00 at 30miles per hour and train C leaves Station E at 13:00 at 50 miles per hour, station B is half the distance from station D is from station E and station E is 100 miles from station B. What color was the shirt of passenger 35 in car 2 of train F?"

[@Nocturnalux]

Sad. The color was sad and salty.

[@stylesrj]

Obviously it was blue. Don't believe the lies of those saying it's red.

[@Carole-j3t]

😂

[@brianm6337]

Mauve, with chartreuse accents. Plus, the left sock has a hole in it right at the ball of the foot. The sock is charcoal gray. 😁😁😁

[@LyndseyWard-o4s]

cheese and onion on granary bread

[@PixelMurder]

I don't have any atheistic literature in my library, or posters of famous atheists, or Darwin, on my walls. I don't worship icons, and I don't need atheistic popes, priests, and magic, to recognize it and to protect me against stupid wordplay. If there was a God, you wouldn't need to use cheap rhetorical tricks to get us.

[@GemmaHentsch]

It’s also ignoring the reality of emergent properties of sufficiently complex systems… Which could include free will…

[@nealjroberts4050]

Perhaps deliberately so given his avoidance when talking about thinking

[@kenshiloh]

Is Jimbob irrational? Yet, if you are an atheist, can you even define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@kgsws]

I saw him calling "emergence" a special pleading in some comment section. He pretty much has to dismiss emergence because it totally destroys his simplifications and obfuscations.

[@nealjroberts4050]

@@kgsws sounds depressing

[@GemmaHentsch]

@@kgsws sounds about right...

[@junior2sdca]

This entire video was a shock to me. Jimbob is a literal neighbor of mine whom I’ve interacted with (not about these topics) several times in the past. I had no idea the thoughts and ideas he possesses and after researching more of his stuff, it’s actually kind of scary.

[@paulthepainter2366]

Omg you should pretend to let him put jesus in your heart. Video it all.

[@darcejackson5902]

The mental gymnastics this guy used trying to make his argument in the video Prophet of Zod analyzed was EXHAUSTING.

[@thelastremnantofevil]

Exhausting is right. Even with zod breaking down the meaning I have no clue what this dudes word salad was even trying to convey.

[@WolfA4]

The unicorns are hinting at a My Little Pony fandom that is stereotypical of an online nerd.

[@kenshiloh]

Is Jimbob irrational? Yet, if you are an atheist, can you even define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@Pinworm]

You may find out sooner than later that Jimbob isn't worth your time. The quicker he gets ignored the quicker we can get on with things.

[@kenshiloh]

If you are an atheist, can you define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@grantm6514]

Thank fuck for the "Do not recommend this (his) channel" button. Now I don't have to see his greasy forelock unless it's to enjoy a channel like this one giving him a much needed slap. 😂

[@darwinskeeper421]

The one thing that we have in common with the police dealing with sovereign citizens is that we have the right not to bother with their BS. If a cop stops a driver and finds that he doesn't have a license, then they can arrest him/her for driving without a license whether they claim they're "traveling" or that they didn't agree to be governed by the laws of the nation/state/municipality. If the sovereign citizen resists arrest or flees the scene, the police are free to use physical force in dealing with the perp. They are not required to argue with the sovereign citizen until they convince him or her that they are subject to the same laws as the rest of us. Likewise, we aren't required to play apologists' word games or debate them about the truth of their claims. We are free to walk away.

[@kenshiloh]

If you are an atheist, can you define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@thing1thing2themediamaniac43]

What is a License but a Constitutional Right STOLEN FROM YOU THAT YOU HAVE TO BUY BACK.

[@thing1thing2themediamaniac43]

What is License but a Constitutional Right THAT WAS STOLEN FROM YOU THAT YOU ARE FORCED TO BUY BACK.

[@jdoe9518]

By definition it is not possible to be both a Sovereign and a Citizen. Therefore you yourself have been duped by word play. It is interesting that you appear to be an atheist yet accept statues created by government, which the basis of was born out of religion, and enforced under the threat of violence for those that don't believe it. The first banks were temples. No doubt you are contracted to an institution that literally creates something from nothing. Like god it only exists once you agree to the terms and conditions and pledge to it. Imagine believing religion is the only lie.

[@corvinredacted]

I like how Jimbob says a tornado can't be true or false _because it's not propositional,_ then tries to justify that propositions can't be true or false either because they share a completely different characteristic (being "effects" of something) with tornados.

[@thankyou8622]

Jimbob is steelmanning the physicalist position. Not positing it as his own. The whole video is an internal critique of a specific atheistic argument.

[@jolkert]

​@@thankyou8622 i think "steelman" is a bit of a strong word in this scenario

[@corvinredacted]

@@thankyou8622 What I said isn't a critique of his representation of the physicalist position (though I have major problems with that as well). I'm critiquing the argument he made about what physicalism implies and why. His assertion that things which are "effects" cannot be propositional is not a physicalist position. It's his position. Physicalists think that something being an effect of something else has nothing to do with whether it can be propositional (and have a true/false value). My voice is a physical effect of my body. But the concept it's communicating can be a proposition.

[@NotGoodAtNamingThings]

​@@thankyou8622 - "steelmanning"? From the way you are using this word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

[@aaronbredon2948]

@@thankyou8622you misspelled “strawmanning”

[@Jouzou87]

"Objects aren't true or false" Tell that to programmers.

[@aagereinertjakobsen4832]

Jimbob's sophistry is the intellectual equivalent of pocket-sand.

[@iwillquietlyresist6922]

*sh-shaaa*!!

[@georgekatkins]

Jim Bob understands grass and tornadoes are "natural" phenomena only because of science. Our earliest ancestors thought that the forces of nature were guided by various dieties, not chemistry and physics. He seems to have overlooked this detail.

[@kenshiloh]

Is Jimbob irrational? Yet, if you are an atheist, can you even define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@Veggiewokker]

This man has given everyone else called Jim-Bob the opportunity to feel like they're the smart one.

[@505Hockey]

The dead giveaway that they have nothing is that they spend all their time trying to argue against atheism rather than presenting convincing arguments (or proof) for their God.

[@ProphetofZod]

“Here are my arguments for why I don’t not believe in God.”

[@OldNewsIsGoodNews]

Appreciating this video. Thoughts can be *real* (as in, they actually happen) and also false (as in, the information they convey does not comport to reality).

[@AbstractStew]

So, since a deliberate lie is a result of thoughts (which are effects of physics), it can be neither true nor false? That is utterly ridiculous.

[@LinuxLightHouse]

Have to say I enjoyed the giggling. Glad to see you enjoying the silliness of the whole thing.

[@IanM-id8or]

Q: What is the difference between a tornado and evaluation? A: Apologists know what a tornado is

[@kenshiloh]

Is Jimbob irrational? Yet, if you are an atheist, can you even define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@maddyjean]

ah well as he has depicted me as a wojak and himself as a chad, my argument is completely destroyed

[@shassett79]

Maybe it's just because jimbo's atheist character looks like Beavis, but... does anyone remember "Socko" from _Beavis and Butthead?_ He was a literal sock puppet that an evangelical preacher character on the show used to advance his own arguments, just like jimbo does in his video. Basically, if you want to "own" someone, but dealing with an intelligent/skeptical interlocutor is too hard, you just... _make up a character and put your words in their mouth!_

[@kenshiloh]

Is Jimbob irrational? Yet, if you are an atheist, can you even define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@VSPhotfries]

Okay, I'm'a be real for a sec: I TOTALLY fit the colorful stuffed animal/not today jesus poster/goofy hoby stereotype: I have several stuffed toys, including two baphomet plushies, a Satanic Temple tenant flag on my wall, and loads of toys and games and stuff. He might be on to something there... I mean, part of it's just because I'm a queer-affirming creative-type, old brony with serious ADHD, but I also know several who fit the bill, so... I think it's also perhaps a jab at Emma Thorne, whose got brightly colored and fun things in her studio, including stuffed satanic toys. With Matt up there in the corner with the others, this guy clearly watches a lot of anti-apologists, and I'd be surprised if she's not one he's come across.

[@BarkleyBCooltimes]

I take it a step worse where I have a poesable Jesus figure in was gifted a while back that I have standing over the bowl I keep all of my EXTREMELY LEGAL IN MY STATE consumable prosucts. He holds his hands out to share these VERY LEGAL consumables with all who visit.

[@tomcaniff6437]

This is basically an inevitable result of being confident, neurodivergent, and no longer religious, having nice things that match your identity littering the house

[@kenshiloh]

Is Jimbob irrational? Yet, if you are an atheist, can you even define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@mistyhaney5565]

I really appreciate your willingness and patience to address people I find frustrating in the extreme.

[@gregcampwriter]

Uranium is a physical thing. Tornadoes are physical things. I take it that JimBob would claim to be mystified over the fact that tornadoes are not inherently radioactive.

[@Oswlek]

"When Christians DON'T try to trick you using wordplay" would have only been a 40 second video.

[@kenshiloh]

Is Jimbob irrational? Yet, if you are an atheist, can you even define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@NotGoodAtNamingThings]

Mostly intro and outro?

[@Oswlek]

@@NotGoodAtNamingThings Sounds about right. 🙂

[@PauliePizza]

He is just confusing me he is not getting me closer to his imaginary friend.

[@nagranoth_]

and it's not even confusion about the intended subject (atheism), it's confusion about how someone could consider this unhinged intentionally misusig of language to even resemble an actual argument...

[@gdutfulkbhh7537]

Time listening to a cultist is time wasted - and it could even be dangerous if they get their hooks into you.

[@kenshiloh]

Is Jimbob irrational? Yet, if you are an atheist, can you even define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@jdevlin1910]

It's not really supposed to, it's meant to make the ones who agree with him already believe their position has intellectual weight.

[@Uldihaa]

Just because thoughts and feelings are emergent properties of chemistry and physics doesn't mean they are useless or invalid. You still have them, and they still affect your life. And because they still affect your life, they affect the lives of others when you share or act on them.

[@nagranoth_]

oh yeah, that guy is pathetic. He has nothing but lies and sad word games...

[@christasimon9716]

"There are no false blades of grass." Well, there ARE false killer whales. Explain _that._

[@ziploc2000]

It's the usual excusagist wordplay, and Jimbob is aware if it. A statement can be true or false. A thing cannot. This car is blue. Can be true or false. This car is true. Can only be a nonsensical statement. So this is where JimmyJoeBilllyBob goes.

[@masqueraid988]

Yeah this guy falls apart to basic knowledge of the English language. True is an adjective that can only be applied to statements. It basic English!

[@yadabub]

I counter you, gentle person, with the time honored apologetic tactic of switching definitions. The car has been named "true," because it has always been a 'true friend,' to me. Which allows the car to be true in multiple senses. Checkmate, atheist! =D

[@thomfiel]

This is a perfect example of gaslighting, trying to blur the distinction between what's real and what's imaginary.

[@drewcoowoohoo]

Oooh, he smuggled in "laws of physics." That's a warning sign, too.

[@gryph01]

JimBob, Witsit and Flatzoid are the masters of wordplay and gish gallop. My counter for them os to keep them on one topic, focus on their definition and then dismantle the argument. Being firm and patient is the key....

[@johnburn8031]

Adding a comment to feed the KZbin algorithm.

[@duediligence8888]

Replying for same reason

[@digigalbytes2445]

For engagement purposes only...

[@kenshiloh]

Is Jimbob irrational? Yet, if you are an atheist, can you even define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@lunsen402]

Algorthims for the algorithm god comments for the comments throne!

[@awkwardukulele6077]

@@lunsen40240k W, n’all dat, ‘umie!!

[@SparklyCoconut-le3fu]

If we’re a Christian apologist, I wouldn’t try to stereotype/caricature atheists, because the stereotypes about apologists include a lot of CSA, slavery, and the g word.

[@kenshiloh]

Is Jimbob irrational? Yet, if you are an atheist, can you even define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@gowdsake7103]

When theists ONLY have old worn out arguments and no evidence they have lost

[@gdutfulkbhh7537]

Yeah, the 21st century isn't going well for the woo-woo brigade.

[@kenshiloh]

If you are an atheist, can you define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@ScientiaHistoria]

Excellent, as usual. The obvious effort to lay out everything meticulously, with graphics, is impressive and appreciated. Thanks.

[@mads2357]

So according to JimBob’s logic, a calculator giving completely random results 5+5=-37.1 would not give false results as long as it was just an effect. This should seemingly be true in his worldview regardless of whether or not we are just effects or not.

[@sweetwaterburns]

Kind of take issue with your dismissal of the bicycle at around 25 minutes. To paraphrase Archimedes, "Build me a sick enough ramp, dude, and I'll get this MF to the moon!"

[@kenshiloh]

If you are an atheist, can you define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@dwaneanderson8039]

There's a simple explanation for why JimBob's syllogism isn't sound. p1 Effects of physics are neither more true or false than other effects of physics. p2 Thoughts, evaluations and propositions are effects of physics. C. Evaluations (effects) and propositions (effects) are not more true or false than other evaluations (effects) and propositions (effects). It's an easily demonstrable fact that propositions can be more true or false than other propositions. This means that, if propositions are included as "effects of physics," then at least SOME effects of physics CAN be more true or false than others. This means that p1 is false. JimBob slips this past the viewer by insisting that p1 is true first. He then gives an example that refutes p1, but doesn't go back and reconsider p1. In fact, he acted particularly deceptive here by not showing both premises and conclusion on screen at the same time, making it harder to spot this flaw in his argument.

[@adymatt334]

I think what he is trying to say is that propositions aren't effects of physics and that they are the result of a god given "mind"

[@coruscanta]

From spending too much time(which is really any at all) in his comments, when people have brought that up, he basically accuses that objection as being special pleading, asks what the significant difference is between propositions and other “effects of physics,” and then fucks off never to respond to that thread again.

[@orinjayce]

Get ready for him and his ilk to brigade the comment section with tone policing and sealioning.

[@ilmt]

All the argument really is: I want to be something more than a meat computer! Similar to the older one : No, I'm in no way "relative" to a monkey! Just an ego fighting the state of reality and misunderstanding the oversimplified concept.

[@jonathanruggles2487]

Am I the only one who came out of thing wanting a fierce debate between a neuroscientist and a climatologist to determine, for once and for all, whether thoughts and tornadoes are the same. Inquiring minds demand an answer!

[@shassett79]

Yes! They could get together and... _brain storm?_

[@narnilphilomythus2821]

@@shassett79 🤣

[@hegyak]

"Nothing can be true or false only." Binary and your Computer would Like some SERIOUS Words with you. Lightbulbs, want in on this action. Also, it would Technically be Boolean, but Binary works too. As it's a Simple state of "0 or 1" Which can be "Is value 0" True or False.

[@kenshiloh]

Is Jimbob irrational? Yet, if you are an atheist, can you even define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@freddan6fly]

"Gobbledygook therefore god". The most common "evidence" for god.

[@PurpleKnightmare]

The phrase, "Arguments against atheism" is incoherent.

[@IanM-id8or]

1: I did not come to disbelief in a god on the basis of the belief that "physicality is all their is". I came to naturalism through my atheism, which I came to when I realised that there is no good evidence for the existence of any gods. JimBob is putting Descartes before dey horse

[@brianm6337]

Ugh. 😆

[@neekerbreeker]

This might be one of my favorite-ever Zod episodes. It’s harder to debunk vague idiocy because one has to figure out wtf the claimant is trying to say while also not losing track of their overall intentions. Zod did a great job with this! I’ll be rewatching.

[@Bob-b7x6v]

Jim-Bob is an expert mental-mast@rbator.

[@dilanbrinkley3587]

That explains the lotion and tissues on the desk

[@orinjayce]

And why he always looks wet and worn out

[@EdwardM-t8p]

Alternatively, he's an expert master baiter! 😉

[@kenshiloh]

If you are an atheist, can you define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@lukepoplawski3230]

I have often heard theists lament at the prospect that we are results of biochemical processes, since it implies that it can be manipulated it seems to cheapen the sanctity of ourselves. But my guy, neurochemical exchange is the literal highest order thing we can do!! It doesn’t mean your love isn’t real or your sadness. If anything the beautiful message is that the things you feel you cherish are fragile and need to be tended to daily, and the terrible things you feel are also easily as malleable and you can get better! The theist loves discussing on how small we are to god, but my word I think that pales in comparison to how small we are compared to existence.

[@Pooknottin]

"Machines can't transcend what they are." I guess innovation isn't a thing then. Back to the wood age we go... no, not even that. Back to not getting how twigs work I suppose.

[@thatguymwangi]

Zod didn't even bother with the final question. You could feel the exhaustion in his voice.😂 Great video as always

[@Dr_Wrong]

Tornado is the thinking process of a Christian..

[@brianm6337]

Equally destructive.

[@hackman669]

Thought that was a politician.🤔😁

[@Dr_Wrong]

Politicians are smarter and more honest.

[@Zero-ei8jn]

Always a good day when a new Zod vid drops.

[@jimmai14]

His argument: Atheists think everything is a “thing”. Grass is a thing, a thought is a thing, and therefore atheists think grass and thoughts are identical.

[@wrathofainz]

As someone who has programmed in C#, everything is a thing.

[@sugartoothYT]

This is nothing but a existential crisis derived from over complicating things because of aspects of reality they don't find appealing. It's the same that makes Christians horrified when you say morality is conceptual and subjective instead of objectively real. Somehow things still work out despite that concern, somehow even people who don't find it to be the nature of reality abide by common morals and can even do a better job than the believers and their rules.

[@JarredTheWyrdWorker]

Comment at 2:39: Seriously, a bottle of lotion and Kleenex? Why not a crusty gym sock instead? 😝 (That'd at least be funnier to me.)

[@brightargyle8950]

The mere fact that they resort to word play and trickery says a lot about what they've got to offer. Con men have a poor reputation for a reason. Just tricking someone into saying something does nothing but piss them off.

[@wp5875]

I had a friendly argument with some dude about a biblical technicality (JCs claim to be god). I got buffeted with scripture readings, lost track and lost interest. Bad faith takes a lot of disguises

[@sirdryden42]

"Well, like, the difference is, like, complexity, and stuff" And there's the strawman. I knew we'd find it eventually.

[@Bob-b7x6v]

What a Kant. "The Thing in Itself" was destroyed as an argument by Arthur Schaupenhauer...

[@williammoomaw8871]

I admit that my knowledge of Schaupenhauer is limited, but in regards to the aspects relevant to this video, they both agree that the thing-in-itself is unreachable, but Schaupenhauer believes people can get closer to its nature than kant does? And isn't their main points of deviation more in kants practical reason than pure reason? Honest question I'm fully ok with my understanding of Schaupenhauer being faulty as I spe t more time comparing the works of Hegel and Kant than Schaupenhauer and Kant.

[@kenshiloh]

Is Jimbob irrational? Yet, if you are an atheist, can you even define the concepts of 'logic' and 'reason'? For example, is it 'wrong' to play word games, to be dishonest? Yet, by rejecting God, each atheist becomes their own God, defining their own morality and logic. Therefore, should the world obey you? In fact, on what authority do you use the word 'should'? Atheism is both insane and irrational. You cannot say that I did not warn you: if you die in your amorality, you will be stuck in amorality forever. In fact, Jesus said that there are 'torturers' in hell. Yet, Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.

[@wrathofainz]

26:18 Dude slips a tangent in with his vague statement. Getting ready for "if our brains are just machines then our choices don't matter and there is no 'morality'."

[@JarredTheWyrdWorker]

Comment 4:32: Anyone named "Jim Bob" should be contractually obligated to acts out the whole "good night" bit with their whole family like the characters did at the end of most episodes of "The Waltons."

[@hidden546]

The word semantics apologists play is like us manipulating language to discuss abstract or nonsensical concepts such as infinity, square circles, leprechauns, etc. Because we can construct syllogisms, they manipulate logic and smuggle God as the conclusion. The premises are never sound and “God” is never an answer to anything because it can never be explained. It’s always the God of their particular region, or their particular denomination, of their particular interpretation of their particular version of the text. God is whatever they want it to be. Because God is nothing more than a subjective placeholder for things we don’t understand, they’ve essentially created an abstract placeholder that can morph into any shape to answer any question. The problem is this usually runs contradictory to the ACTUAL description of their God from their particular religion. For example Christian’s love talking about their “Timeless, spaceless, immaterial mind that is all powerful and all loving” Yet when they say the above, they’re somehow talking about Yahweh, the desert God who has a body and is very jealous. The god who destroys babies and curses his women to eat their placenta if they disobey him. It’s the God who commands worship to the point of torture and loves the smell of burnt animal sacrifices.

[@The5armdamput33]

Does Jim Bob think that maps are supernatural? How about footprints? Those can represent reality to varying degrees of accuracy......

[@bethanymatthews7936]

Category errors and semantics out the wazoo. The word 'just' is doing a lot of heavy lifting throughout this video. When I was still a christian, I heard an argument for God from WLC and it was so full of semantics and word play, that all I could think of was if this argument was in another language would it even work? Are there no good arguments that this flimsy argument is the best/favorite of apologists. It was a significant blow to my faith, so good job apologists :P

[@The10021k-guy]

Man, I really need a Matt Dillahunty poster now 😆😂

[@gregcampwriter]

I've interacted with JimBob on his channel. He's just as dishonest in conversation as he is in a scripted video.

[@radorat]

I think Jim Bob is having trouble understanding that metaphysical things like thought are part of physical reality and not spiritual nonsense.

[@thomas-hall]

His entire point is to point that out as your view and ask why you don't apply the same standards to thought as you do to trees. Thoughts just are, they're not true or false, just like trees just are by the physicalist view. To say otherwise is just special pleading.

[@missk1697]

What even would be the ultimate border line between physical and supernatural, assuming both exist? I can just as well say "your soul exists, and a tornado exists".

[@sarah_757]

I randomly happened upon a subreddit about sovcits and this Canadian Judge just issued a like 80 page ruling which was a primer on sovcits. I'm very grateful I found it as it expanded my understanding of some phenomenon I'd observed in the fundamentalist evangelical churches my parents attended. Thanks for all you do Zod!

[@johnalexir7634]

My personal favorite: You challenge them on something the bible says, and the reaction is "Oh, so you think you're smarter than God!" It's such weak reasoning.

[@juniusluriuscatalus6606]

"Arguments against atheism" when you can't defend your own position? Yeah. Game over, he lost already. Oh yeah, he sounds a lot like he has a huge problem with the idea that we might not have a free will.

[@alittlelogic5914]

Go Zod ✊😊....very nice

[@cog001]

Thank you so much for your videos. You have taken the time to rigorously dig into SO MANY issues and ideas and annoyances that have flashed across my mind but I just haven’t taken the time to flesh them out. And, I don’t think I could as well as you have. This video especially.

[@joelovett3098]

If god exists, why would you need to trick people into believing in it?

[@georgeflowers3730]

We need to know and understand the meaning of words. For example the word Physics, and in this case we are referring to, is the laws of Physics, they are only use to describe what we observe in nature, Physics are not causes or effects, they only describe actions and reactions in our nature world. Saying the effects of physics is illogical. All this mental gymnastics for nothing.