How do I have the marriage talk (vs. an ultimatum)?

[@RG-hf4et]

I have learned NEVER be afraid to walk. You just need to be VERY CLEAR in your own head what you WANT, what you NEED, & the COURAGE to be true to yourself. It took me YEARS to figure this out......As you leave, I think it might be good to say, "I need to find someone who wants the same things I do and name what you want & need. (Be very specific). If you change your mind, let me know, but I have to go now & do what is best for me". This way they know you are leaving for good unless he can deliver what you need and want......... If you never hear from him, then it was NEVER going to happen anyway. And DON'T text or call him either. And NO friends with benefits. ....When I see people (and myself!) holding onto people that aren't right for us, as stupid as this sounds, I ask (myself included), "Would you keep going to the same restaurant if it serves food you didn't ask for, didn't like, or didn't order?" HELL NO!! :):):)

[@RG-hf4et]

@@crimestoppers1877 I'd say women in general want the same things. And some women will say they want a formal commitment/marriage, too.

[@TeddyBear-tf2jq]

R G .. you are so right. I’m going through this right now but I don’t have the courage to walk away. He said he loves me and cares for me but yet he’s seeing someone else. I know I should walk away and don’t look back but it’s so hard to do. We’ve been together for over 9 years 😢

[@RG-hf4et]

@@TeddyBear-tf2jq A man who truly loves you has your back and has only you on his mind. He isn't just "seeing" someone else. He is SLEEPING with someone else. Don't accept being LAST on his list. You DESERVE to be #1. Find the courage somehow to RUN from this jerk. There are PLENTY of men out there. He is just one of MILLIONS of possibilities. YOU DESERVE BETTER THAN THIS.

[@lailamnn2328]

L

[@rosamariaspage8204]

We are willing to give a bottom line on a house, we should be able to give one to our partner. But as you said, be confident to walk if your price is too high, he probably wasn’t going to buy anyway.

[@Babesinthewood97]

I have several absolutely beautiful, highly intelligent, kind female friends who didn't find a suitable partner.. they did it on their own. They have babies now.

[@theurbanfarmlife7311]

You need to have this conversation upfront. I don't live with anyone I'm not married to.

[@Gonza2024]

Some men never make up their minds and they know it, They just dont say it. because they are afraid to end up alone. Run for your life.

[@sunnydaye5942]

Some don't want to risk losing all they own.

[@Gonza2024]

@@sunnydaye5942 Exactly, When there is a good retirement benefits from the actual wife (they prefer to stay separated for life) , or their dead wife, a house, or they just have something that they don't want to share with you. Don't let them use you.

[@MissSarahGM]

Yes it is a way to appear committed while still having a foot out of the door

[@Gonza2024]

@@sunnydaye5942 Exactly, My ex used to tell me "I can start collecting my (dead) late wife benefits soon. IF I get marry I lost everything. LOL

[@Dream-rl9er]

Men will waste your time if you let them

[@selenamunn7025]

Susan, I’ve enjoyed your videos and advice thoroughly for quiet a while. This time, I need to respectfully disagree with the advice you’re offering. Speaking from experience of a 20 year marriage to someone I did this exact thing with 23 years ago. He did marry me after that “ultimatum”. we had the children, and made a life. However, he always resented me for it, and eventually after 13 years became physically and in many other ways abusive toward me. He did not spend quality time with me, and was reluctant with even the smallest kind word toward me. After 20 years together and before the ink was dry on the divorce papers he was remarried to the perfect example of the “cheerleader prototype” he had been dating immediately before we met all those years ago. It’s as though I wasn’t his type, and the reason he just muddled through all those years was because I had pressured him into something he didn’t want to be in. I didn’t feel loved or wanted in those years, but instead felt like I had negotiated and extorted a reluctant man for a title. If being married and having the kids is more the objective than actually needing to feel loved for its own sake, don’t do it. It was miserable and if I had it to do over, I’d never had even had the conversation with him. If a man wants to marry you, he will just do it without having a line drawn in the sand. And if he doesn’t propose after several years, then that’s the message you need to pay attention to and with as much dignity as you can, walk away knowing you’ve tried your best. Sometimes our ego, and the manipulations it employs to avoid rejection, can work to our disadvantage. It’s far better to feel a little sting now than a lifetime of obligatory regret - on both parties.

[@SusanWinter]

I appreciate your well thought out commentary. There are perks and perils of every decision we make.

[@Iamsam-jl5fn]

Sounds like he was a low value man to begin with

[@edover50]

We all made that mistake the first time around. In my case I felt it was the right and honourable thing to do and after 20 years we had become only associates in the marriage business. The good news is we are mature, healthy and can commit to the right relationship with someone who wants to commit to lifelong courting. I don’t believe that means marriage anymore, although not against it either. What’s important is to communicate and be vulnerable emotionally and spiritually. I’m very excited and thankful for this time in my life. Now if we can just find that partner we connect with.

[@RG-hf4et]

I think most men do know what they want but they will bs around and say, "I'm not ready yet" or "I don't know" and they just aren't being truthful to keep the relationship going. I also think most men do not want to get married these days because they see too many people who are divorced and the divorce rate is so high (still).

[@glitterboxglitterbox1939]

R G mines didn’t even dump he just decided to just get engaged and marry someone else without me knowing I’m like this guy is either a coward or he was never into me like that probably?

[@MissSarahGM]

Very good analysis as always! It seems that women often tend to be the codependent ones, as if they had to endure a situation just because the man gave them the favor to be in a relationship with them. Women need to be empowered and adopt this self loving mindset and stand up for themselves. We often tend to delude ourselves in overlooking the red flags and thinking what we get is enough and we are too demanding. When it is legit after months and years to ask for a commitment. In this specific case, Melissa is a bit deluding herself "he is fully committed to me in every way", (I have been there also more than once). We need to practice more self love and self affirmation in order to attract the right people in our life and be respected. I also second Susan advice to freeze eggs, I have been in the process to do it, at age 40 it would not be a great probability to end up in a baby (for the price!), so my gynecologist told me I had better chances in trying regularly with a partner. So it is something women need to do ideally at age 25 or 30 to really be a "time freeze" security. Personally I have come to the point I accept we all are on different journeys, there are reasons why things go a certain way and all lives deserve to be experienced. And also I am not ready to do anything to have a baby without a man (or with an egg/ sperm donor etc). But whatever the life project is, I will not let a man string me along and play with my emotions for more than it is reasonable to have them figure out what they feel for us.

[@Maggie1952]

Women should never shack up with a man. Live on your own or with your parents, but don't shack up. This is part of the problem in relationships.

[@merthur88]

Susan youre soooo incredible. Amazing advice!!! you are super analytical, never seen anyone to rival you really.

[@SusanWinter]

Thank you, thank you!

[@Almamater8888]

I think that is excellent advice to her to freeze her eggs. A woman has to be careful about waiting too many years for a man to be ready.

[@MissSarahGM]

Yes maybe if women came to that conclusion, maybe men would not get sex that easily and will be forced to consider committing at some point. This dating app/sites era has not been in favor of women so far.

[@123456789alejandra1]

but she is right! It's so hard being firm. It takes a lot to consider leaving but man, only then they realize what they r about to lose

[@kathleenwharton2139]

+Crime Stoppers.. There was No alimony. I did not ask for alimony. I had a nervous break down and had to go on disability which was early retirement SSI. I live on 700$ a month and live with family members who I help with rent and expenses..and I ride the bus and tram to get around. I do ok thanks to the graces of some of my family and a friend. He took the money from the sale of our house and spent it on his new Fancy woman to buy her a grand piano, diamonds and travel. She has now depleted him. Some men do not know a good woman when God Gives them one. I can see you are trying to blame women for everything..but in this case you would be wrong. His expectations were high and unreasonable and my health broke trying to please him.

[@deplorabledixie2834]

Bless you dear, I hope things are better for you now.

[@icculus19]

Like you wouldnt have dropped him if he got disabled.

[@josenavas9968]

Ms Susan; your absolutely right! As we get older NO man wants to get married? Sort of thinks he's giving his freedom! But...saying single and watching his brother or friends get married and you sit there..whew what to go??

[@yasminstrange7935]

A man knows after 6 months if he wants to marry you & have a family with YOU . Don’t let any man waste your time or eggs ladies !!!!

[@kelpiegirl]

I agree. But I also believe there are no absolutes. The most important message is that yes, don't have time wasted.

[@RG-hf4et]

@@crimestoppers1877 Men's wall is a whole lot sooner than 55, like 35. Very few men get better with age.

[@deplorabledixie2834]

@@crimestoppers1877 men hit the wall at 55??? LOL

[@deplorabledixie2834]

@@crimestoppers1877 Why use "friendzoned" as if it's a negative? Not every woman a guy selects is going to be "right " for him, and guys shouldn't be made to feel insecure about that. Plenty of young men think they're "in love" if the girl is simply hot and somewhat nice. Young ppl are always confusing infatuation for love and because guys are more basic, they will think they are "in love" more often than young women do. It's better to wait until you find that *mutual* connection. People should appreciate if the object of their desire knows that the two of them don't have that potential as a couple, and just move on normally without stigmatizing themselves as being "friendzoned".

[@kathleenwharton2139]

Being married does not necessarily mean the relationship is going to be better or permanent. Sometimes it even harder..because the expectations increase. I married a man and after 30 years I still could not meet his expectations. He found someone who met his expectations..and then he did not met her expectations. This is complicated!

[@Lauren-vd4qe]

ha ha, thats rich

[@kathleenwharton2139]

@@Lauren-vd4qe I liked it Too! Lol

[@morwien]

I wish I had seen this advice a month before Susan. I walked out of my 4 year relationship with my ex because an ‘ultimatum’ about having kids then save for a house. Wish I had made the talk simpler and gave him option rather than walking away abruptly because he said hes not ready. Now I thought I was too pushy on why I said it, constantly thinking maybe Im too impatient. But then your words gave me an insight maybe I was right. I am currently 31 and my clock is also ticking. I thought we would eventually have kids and get married but after 4 years together there was no plan in sight. Even though it was a painful breakup, I guess I have the strength to walk away knowing my goal wont be achieved if I had stayed.

[@Regansaidso]

Any updates???

[@angelashen2515]

Couldn't agree more. Well said.@tetianatrycheva5272

[@adjoaosei87]

Susan is so wonderful. So wise. Thank you

[@camellia8625]

The problem is if they say they will be ready by x time (to keep you) and then they don’t honour it. Why be with a guy who is reticent when you can find someone who loves you enough not to be reticent.

[@RG-hf4et]

Excellent video, Susan......Could you please consider doing a video on the following: I have heard many women say, myself included, that they stayed too long in a relationship. The person in this video has been in this relationship for 4 years. I was in one for 5 years and walked away because it felt too one sided. We can't get these years back. I regret that I stayed so long. How long should a person give a relationship to really evaluate their partner and their future together? I know each case is individual, but can you give some general guidelines? For example, would you agree not to give a relationship more than 2 years, maybe less?, then seriously evaluate whether we are on the same track for the future? Thank you for all of your advice. I love your videos!♡

[@SusanWinter]

Great suggestion. thank you!

[@lieliebaby]

Hello Susan, How about after the ultimatum deadline? As you said, after you leave the relationship the partner now remembers what they want and decided they agree with you, they want the same (marriage, kids, whatever that be). Can I actually believe that? Why now? Even if they come with a date for the wedding or they want to get pregnant today, whatever... Is it they want it for real? Or is it just the fear of losing you or being alone? Honestly, I'm not sure I want anything with my(/that) partner NOW. It took too long, I think I rather be with someone else, or even alone. (Also like you said, I can have a baby on my own too)

[@meggyespite424]

this is actually whats been happening to me too, similar situation. I got divorced at 25 after 3 years because my husband was saying hes not ready. when i said thats it, he didnot want to go. but he had to as i was firm. now im 29, i saved for a deposit, bought a flat and saving for treatment to have kids alone. been dating but not found anyone ready now yet. what a great great video, love you Susan

[@bakhtzaman9216]

I am looking your KZbin videos regularly

[@ΚαλλιαΜαμαντ]

You are so helpful!Thanks !😍❤❤

[@sparklypinkleopard26]

You're a GEM

[@SusanWinter]

Thank you!

[@JetSetVogue]

My partner & I are in a relationship for almost 8 years now, (LDR) We have always had the goal to get married one day etc. but now when I feel is the right time, my partner is not ready. The last time we met physically, I brought up the topic and he said we’ll get it done and stuff but after he returned back to his country, there’s no talk. I am 28 & he’s 29. More than having children, all I want is a family with him. I want to have a chat with him about this in a very firm way but it’s never a good time. Idk what to do.

[@angelcake6869]

8 years and no ring? and you're in your late 20s? girl leave!!

[@BrooklynBaby100]

LEAVE! He’s wasting your hot years babe!

[@rakastellar8955]

this is so helpful

[@J3nnycat]

I’m 40, never really wanted kids, and marriage terrifies me. I grew up in an abusive family environment, and haven’t seen a happy marriage yet. The man I’m with doesn’t want kids, but does want marriage and is pressuring me. I guess this means it’s over.

[@old-soul]

If I were u, i will marry him. He loves you and wants you to be his wife

[@CF.]

What happened? Are you guys still together?

[@cyn5962]

Be cautious about getting married if you are having doubts about marrying him. It would probably be good to dee a counselor to sort out how what happened in your childhood is effecting your relationships as an adult.

[@angel33333333]

do u tell a man you want marriage or looking to date for ultimately marriage from the beginning?

[@BLADE_RISE]

If you personally want marriage and feel you want that in future then you must tell him. As if he does not care about marriage or feel it's not important and you haven't made clear your wants and/or expectations then you are in the wrong.

[@sejalkothari6687]

You are brilliant...

[@tequilabumbum4373]

How to make him propose when you already have a. Baby together 🤦🏽‍♀️ he says that a baby is bigger commitment, but I want to be a wife, not a girlfriend !

[@ajahnneka7676]

Dear Susan, my boyfriend believes marriage will tamper with his career goals and he is believes because of the fact that he gives one% to everything he gets involve with , it would be a divided attention. But he maintains a serious relationship with me. what do you advice?

[@Maggie1952]

Dump him now unless you never want to get married or have kids. You are wasting your time.

[@123kityy]

Susan, God bless you ❤❤❤

[@jimnicosia5934]

Fai l'amore sotto la luna e tutto andrà bene

[@ruthhsu6852]

True

[@lalitchavan2094]

Susan u r so beautiful

[@scoobie8amg]

That pupper 👀

[@doughewitt9424]

Dear Susan. Many,many years ago I fell for the ultimatum. And then I woke up to the fact that I was just the sperm donor. Sorry to sound so negative,but the marriage didn't work out. I ended up leaving after 3 children. I was financially crucified for many years after. If only I knew then what I know now....famous last words!!

[@icculus19]

Red pilled the hard way. Marriage is a financial trap for men. Once married men lose all rights, money, property

[@Firegirl483]

@@icculus19 that's definitely not the case anymore

[@baderkhalouche3575]

We are ready

[@michelequici3956]

So we marry a ticking bomb?

[@icculus19]

Hate to tell you gals, more and more men are realizing marriage isnt worth it

[@Maggie1952]

Then don't get married. Only date older divorced women who have children or women who never want to get married. But don't date a woman who does want a family. Don't waste her time or yours.

[@Eg-jd9zt]

@@Maggie1952 exactly. It’s the men that say they want that then drag their feet. Wasting someone else’s life. Hell no!

[@Maggie1952]

@@Eg-jd9zt Exactly! If a man doesn't want to get married then he should date. sluts, divorcees or women who have no interest in marrying them.

[@BLADE_RISE]

You don't need to get married, I don't see why so many people are actually willing to leave a relationship if they don't get engaged/married. It's simple, if you are willing to leave a relationship because of such a stupid reason then you were never fully 100% committed to that person.

[@wishwash6647]

Worst advice ever

[@brookvalley907]

Sadly, Melissa has missed her window of opportunity. A 35 year old man is just beginning his peak years of attraction. He can easily marry a 25 year old woman or even a 21 year old woman. Melissa is actually far past her peak year of 25. Her odds of attracting the most attractive men are far less than 50/50. She must now look to second tier men, if she is lucky, or less. If she has been spending her time building her carrier, she will now find that her career means next to nothing to men. Women may be attracted to men with careers, but men are attracted to women with youth and beauty. A pretty, charming waitress will suit an up an coming executive just fine. Ladies take a lesson. Twenty-five, not 35 is your time to nail down a 35 year old executive. This 35 year old man will be able to marry an attractive 25 year old woman for the next five years. And if he is smart he may decide to not marry at all, because the divorce laws will separate him from half of is fortune at the whim of his wife. The upside to all of this is that there will be plenty of women to adopt cats in the future. Addendum: One woman who had married a 40 or 50 something man in her twenties, said that she never had to worry about him being attracted to younger women, because no matter how old he got, she was the younger woman. She would forever be the youngest age group that he could attract. She quickly had two kids and lay by the pool raising them. Addendum: My wife was very cute with long legs and a warm personality. I lucked out. We married when I was 21 and she was 20. Men would gravitate to her. I was shocked when she told me that she became invisible to men at around 30. She said that men didn't even "see" her anymore. It was like she was invisible. I on the other hand was still getting choosing signals from women (including younger women) into my 40s and 50s. It was a little disconcerting to have women in their 20s initiate conversations. So, ladies act in your early to mid 20s before you literally become invisible to men. Snag a guy in his 20s if he shows clear success potential or in his early 30s before he starts getting a boat load of attention at 35 - 40. And, if you feel really driven by security in your 20s, snag a man in his 40s -50s. You'll always be his younger woman trophy wife and lead a life of financial security for you and your children. If you're an older woman, at least pass this information along to younger women. Be advised that older men are advising younger men that they will hit their prime at 35 and to wait to get married until their 40s - 50s, if at all. Men want to marry, but divorce laws make it too risky.

[@brookvalley907]

@Psybabe yes, women will be able to have pleasant relationships with men at any age. I was just saying that, if a woman wanted to have two or three kids with a successful man, her best window of opportunity was around 25. Unfortunately, many women feel that they have to work on their careers before getting married. But mother nature has played a cruel trick on them. They usually don't have time to build a rock solid career and to have three kids with a handsome successful man. They have to make their move with that handsome successful 35 year old man in their early to mid-20s, as he's breaking up with is 30-something girlfriend who has built herself a solid position with a major corporation. Hooray, for her. Another cruel irony is that men find successful competitive women somewhat unattractive. Men, particularly masculine men, prefer a supportive mate rather than a competitive mate. Thus, he marries a 25 year old waitress, while his 30 year old ex-girlfriend successful executive says WTF?

[@brookvalley907]

@Psybabe Sorry, I didn't realize that this was a British perspective. I have no knowledge of the British situation at all. I would not be at all surprised if the British situation was completely different from American culture. I am only responding to American culture.

[@RG-hf4et]

I wouldn't want someone older...Why? So I can be their nurse maid when they get older? No thank you.

[@brookvalley907]

@@RG-hf4et excellent point.

[@ladynerfertitti1710]

Propganda