How Do I Price My Jobs? | Are There Pricing Differences Between Carpenters & Joiners? Vid#76

[@andyjames8612]

I don’t agree with the whole carpenter/joiner/cabinet maker debate. I’m a carpenter and joiner, that’s what I trained as, went to college, did an apprenticeship for four years. Doesn’t matter what I do, make or fit I’m still a carpenter. If people ask what my job is my answer is always carpenter or chippy. I’m self employed and I make and fit wardrobes, alcove cabinets, bookcases etc. I’ve got a workshop where I make all my cabinets but that doesn’t make me a cabinet maker. When I was at college in South London one of my tutors always said ‘just remember, carpenter’s are the cream of the crop.’ And he was right, no other trade comes close. My best years at work are behind me now but what a great trade carpentry is, so much job satisfaction, I’d recommend it to anyone.

[@MisterGrumpyDad]

London for you mate

[@hi-tech55]

I am with you on this one Andy. I have done most of what you said. I had a joinery shop, done first and second fix. Fitted out a Thames Cruiser, a private plane at Stansted and fitted kitchens for the council. I don’t think I am a one off either. Where I agree is that bespoke furniture must cost more

[@brynbron]

I love the majority of your videos, the tips and inside view of how you work is invaluable. I have watched a fair bit of content and listened to Tyler's podcast for a little while now as the content is fundamentally interesting, however he comes across as very confrontational for someone who's business has been running for a relatively short period of time. All the best with what each of you are doing, however the remarks about charging customers over the odds is uncomfortable viewing and not particularly great advice for the common 'woodworker/carpenter ect that is new to this type of work - whom this content is likely aimed towards. The insight with other professionals is really good, however I'm not sure a lot of people would do well to take on board Tyler's advice here.

[@anthonymcroberts2760]

That other guy who was on is to far up his own arse, "a carpenter can't do what you two do and don't have the same expenses because you specialise at one aspect ." Utter bull , i started serving my time as a carpenter and joiner 35 years ago ,after coming out of my time at 20 i did 30 years travelling the country shopfitting, i now have a workshop, i manufacture wardrobes, cabinets, alcove cabinets, doors and frames , furniture restoration and i also manufacture furniture when requested but I'll also go out putting roofs on and doing all 1st, 2nd and final fix and my jobs aren't commissions mine are what they are JOB'S. Also i don't charge for quotes and i don't alter my prices to suit the area where my work is unless the work is away from home which i don't do anymore.

[@propertymaintenancesouthwe3111]

Thanks for uploading Ryan, I trained as a Damp Specialist to reduce the amount of external trades we have to rely on after a few poor jobs carried out by “Damp experts” that failed to solve problem and we got the calls complaining, anyway, I used to charge for the quotation explaining that I would need to use specialist equipment to carry out the survey and then provide them with a report on exact location of issue, what the actual issue is and what is needed to fix the issue permanently, once the customer had all this sent via quote there is nothing stopping them asking an untrained builder to carry out works cheaper but usually incorrectly, I even had one person ring up saying her builder carried out works to my specification in quotation but the damp has broke through his new plaster again and can I come and sort it out 🤦🏼‍♂️, I would tell the customer I charge for my time to quote but deduct amount from final invoice if they go ahead with works quoted, that filters out the time wasters. I’m not sure saying you charge different prices for identical work in different areas was a good idea to put out there tbh mate, I respect your honesty but there’s some things the customer doesn’t need to know, hopefully that doesn’t come back to haunt you !. Bear seems like a guy who takes pride in his work too but he seems a bit bolshy with his customers, taking a 4K payment up front and them having to wait up to a year during which time they may decide to move/circumstances changed so ask for money back to be told it ain’t happening is gonna piss customers off which will lead to negative reviews, which will defo be bad for business, how about something less aggressive like they lose 10% of deposit to cover time wasted and having a empty spot in diary (which I’m sure you could easily fill if your booked up for nearly a year in advance), Lamborghini etc may get away with upfront payment demands with no cancellation, but a business trading 2 for years may restrict its growth significantly if the client feels your saying that’s how it is, suck it up or go elsewhere !, you have obviously grown your business rapidly Bear but I think you will hit a peak you can’t get over if you don’t tweak a few things. I’m no business guru, but I have built a very successful Building & Maintenance Company which is still stacked with work today, and also built and sold a Locksmith business over 12 years for a decent price with the buyer just getting the website and reputation built over that time for his money. In my opinion 20% of customers are full of shit and time wasters, but once you filter them out look after the other 80% cause they are your bread & butter until you retire…. Enjoy all your videos Ryan and have learned a lot from you, but not much positive learnt today mate...

[@blackbird-25]

Interesting conversation about a difficult subject. As a small business making hand made furniture I don't charge for estimates. I have an Excel spreadsheet that I use to calculate the price. It has two sections, labour and material costs. In the labour section I have pre written entries for admin, drawings, trips to the timberyard, sanding, final assembly, final clean up. This part also rounds up to half day increments so my costs never go lower than half days. By having these pre written entries I don't forget to allow for all the dicking around that can soak up so much time.

[@thetallcarpenter]

I'm so glad I clicked on this video. Some really great points you cover. I think there is, on a subconscious level, this feeling that most people don't expect to have to pay a person who works with their hands, large amounts of money for the items they produce, and therefore you constantly feel like you need to keep justifying the rates you charge. I think that now is the time for guys like yourselves to really capitalise on the increased demand for your skills and, hopefully, really make people realise that having bespoke Joinery items made for them by highly skilled craftsmen, doesn't come cheap👊

[@keithwiddows2391]

Get the client to pay for the quote upfront then say you take it off the final price if they accept your quote. Then your time is paid for. Seems like a good way to go.

[@HIYAharry]

Many would be turned off by this

[@PurpleWhirple]

Nice idea, not going to happen.

[@jamesdiver2183]

@keithwiddows2391 what with the parasites like my builder and rated people and checkatrade unfortunately tradesmen now have to pay them to release clients details, sadly alot of clients don't know that these companies charge tradesmen for this service they think it is free. My tradesman told me of how they used to charge for quotes, just another reason why the trade is dying.

[@seannash4081]

Good to hear you different points of view. Personally I think estimates should be offered free with minimum amount of detail and effort to price condition your potential clients. Quotations should be charged for and come with full design and detail. The estimate process should go a long way to sorting out the tyre kickers from serious clients 👍

[@ekmakes8969]

Very interesting discussion. I've never charged people different prices depending upon how wealthy they are, the price is always the same regardless - though some areas do attract a surcharge for congestion and parking costs. Wardrobes, with full carcasses (not just front frames), range from £1000 - £2000 per linear (not square, as Tyler was suggesting) metre depending upon the complexity, materials, and finish. It's a good, accurate, and quick way to price 👍

[@FiscalWoofer]

Some times spend over a day on a quote…really useful to hear your conversation. I fall between design and build and architect, but I know that a ton of times I’ve done all the work, for someone else to get the gig using most of my designs. Need to start charging for design of part of estimate I guess, as that is the IP.

[@MorgStar44]

Never hand over a final drawing with detail until its locked down job is yours. That is the same way kitchen company's work, they do send a 3d mock up artist illustration nothing more than that

[@shanesaunders2191]

I work the same way as you Ryan regarding pricing. It obviously works after 12/13 years. Nothing against Bear but he seems very arrogant! 2 years in the current climate is nothing, be interesting to see if his pricing and the way he cherry picks his jobs continues over the next few years

[@Jackthecarpenter123]

(7:30 mins) best way to change for your quotes is quote for free and then price that into the job if you don’t end up getting the job then it’s a loss but you going to struggle a lot more to get through the door if your charging up front for a quote from my experience anyway

[@thelondoncraftsmanworkshop]

Yep charging for a quote is madness isn't it! Like you said, add some extra into the bill!! 👍👍👍👌

[@joshchowney4737]

Very interesting chat guys. Bear, a question for you. Were you doing anything before your custom furniture business? Did you always charge for quotes from the outset or waiting until you had enough demand? T

[@phillipblakeway9008]

Interesting I can’t find bears instagram page 🤔 what could have happened to him

[@thelondoncraftsmanworkshop]

Hello apologies this message was held back by KZbin! He left social media etc and went beck to being a copper I think!

[@BrookesWood]

This is a very difficult subject & subjective to the person, the area & the work. There isn’t a right answer that fits everyone. Don’t even get me started on “hobbyist” pricing etc. Tyler has some very strong thoughts on this & they aren’t for everyone but he speaks the truth just got to take what you want to hear & ignore the rest. It’s a very interesting topic & everyone has a slightly different answer.

[@mpond670]

Referring to your previous videos on drawer making, can you tell me if you were making them with an overlay front, what difference in measurement would you make between the drawer box and front to give you some leeway when fitting the fronts? I intend to use the GTV runners & slides, and secondly would you think that 15mm Beech ply be suitable for the boxes? Thanks.

[@bowditch18ify]

Definitely no charging to quote jobs. Come on. You win some you lose some. All your time and effort comes together over the weeks and months rather than cherishing every single hour you have. Collectively, all jobs are one. Bet that geeza loses a shit tonne of work. Can't seem to click with him. You're very relatable Ryan and seem very honest in yourself. New follower here. Trying a few of your methods on alcoves etc. Slowly getting through your videos. Keep it up Sam

[@thelondoncraftsmanworkshop]

Amazing Sam, I do like your comments and agree with them all. Hes closed his business down now . I would never charge to quote its just not what you do! Thank you for the follow, if you wanna chat or need some advice just let me know, that's if you need it 😁 Cheers!

[@samrix5793]

Really interesting video! Love that you do a collaboration and interesting subject

[@thelondoncraftsmanworkshop]

It's a bit different isn't it! If the vid does well I may do more collaborations and talk about other subjects 👍

[@samrix5793]

@@thelondoncraftsmanworkshop yeah I like these type of vids and nice to talk about subjects people are usually shy to go into detail on

[@nigelboucher2014]

Verbal quote free. With drawings €200 as a first deposit on job. Usually sorts out the messers from the serious clients.

[@luct3368]

Many customers exploit builders, using visits & Quotes as free advice, consulting, and quantity surveying services.Then they often employ fly by night builders, & have a bad experience.

[@HIYAharry]

Mobile number is preferred IMO. If they don’t answer then a text is better than leaving a message on a landline.

[@S.JCarpentry]

Just watched your measuring up box video. Do you have a video on how you actually measure a job up?

[@thelondoncraftsmanworkshop]

Hi mate, I havnt got a measuring up vid but could do one. Any thing you want to se in particular?

[@S.JCarpentry]

@@thelondoncraftsmanworkshop I was watching your sketchup videos the other day. I kinda got the jist from your under stair one. Be good to see how you plan your jobs from when you first go to look at the site then turn that into the 3d model.

[@thelondoncraftsmanworkshop]

@@S.JCarpentry cool, I'll keep that idea and see if I can make it happen soon 😁

[@S.JCarpentry]

@@thelondoncraftsmanworkshop thank you

[@rombioliwood]

you're saying to put a shelve to Buckingham palace, you'd charge few hundreds thousand pound?

[@thelondoncraftsmanworkshop]

Buckingham Palace I'd charge a few grand!

[@alan36753]

I’m sure you and your mate both work to a high standard but if that twat walked into my house and started lecturing me how much he’s worth I’d tell him to do one. I love watching your videos and I hope your mate finds enough wealthy idiots to separate from their money. His method would only work in one city in the U.K. so I hope he has the sense to stay there.

[@markhedquist9597]

I'm so glad I watched this video. I have been dreaming of upping my game and this info here is priceless. Thanks for letting me in on this conversation!

[@jamd804]

Great video

[@PurpleWhirple]

Don't think I'd be 'commissioning' the guy on the left, just didn't like the whole attitude. The London Craftsman guy came across as a nicer person and far more reasonable. I make fitted furniture for a living myself, so I realise it's not easy striking a balance between making a living and giving a good service but, if you are going to be a bit of a twat, it's probably better not to boast about it on KZbin!

[@joseph7105]

I agree. He sounds like somebody that got a lot of initial work when he started his business which inflated his ego. I'd be very surprised if he is still in business in 2 or 3 years with this attitude and business model. I hope he is saving money because he is in for a rude awakening

[@ryantcb]

Very interesting video. Wonder how many jobs he loses because he charges for quotes? For me it’s the equivalent of a waiter charging you for bringing you a menu. Please don’t charge one job for your tools unless you intend to then leave that tool for the client 🤣😂

[@thelondoncraftsmanworkshop]

I personally think charging for a quote is not the right thing to do 👍

[@jamesdiver2183]

@@thelondoncraftsmanworkshop Charging for an ESTIMATE might not be the right thing to do, but charging for a quote for something bespoke and unusual is justifiable, However if you specialise in one subject you should have pricing down to a tee.

[@brassroot166]

I don't think I could even afford your Watford prices. ...lol

[@solobuilder7451]

So is that £1k per linear metre or m2? Just out of curiosity

[@TheUkGrimekid]

Linear metre

[@PurpleWhirple]

@@TheUkGrimekid He actually said per metre2, that how I price it anyway.

[@craigbarry1340]

I guess arrogance does sell 🤔

[@comfortbathrooms]

He's got a lot to learn, very naive.

[@thelondoncraftsmanworkshop]

Thats what everyone say about him 😬

[@adriansams6066]

The vat commnet is nonsense, it just means you are a tax collector for HMRC and the client will pay 20% on the labour. Plenty of vat registered businesses have gone bankrupt and stolen the vat money. It really is meaningless unless you sub contract for a company who is registered otherwise they can't claim back the full 20% vat. Far too much "Branding" , concentrate on the quality of workmanship.Brexit has absolutely nothing to do with price rises in materials, nothing whatsoever.

[@PurpleWhirple]

Agree on the VAT issue. But you're wrong about Brexit not affecting material prices, everything shot up as a result. A quick conversation with any importer would confirm that. There were serious problems just getting MDF into the country at one stage.

[@adriansams6066]

@@PurpleWhirple the issues with MDF only arose since covid ,nothing to do with Brexit. Get your facts right.

[@adriansams6066]

@@PurpleWhirple also worth noting importers didn't have any tariffs on imported timber or timber products. Any bureaucratic issues were due to the EU's intransigence, not leaving the EU.

[@adriansams6066]

@@PurpleWhirple I'd also point out that the war in Ukraine massively affected Birch ply and softwood prices due to the trade embargo on Russian imports. Cherry, American Ash, White oak,Red Oak, Black Walnut and many more species are imported direct from countries outside the EU. Timber is priced in Dollars generally, so currency fluctuations affect the prices. The same old convenient excuses are rolled out by remain voters which rarely stand up to scrutiny.