How do we know the Orthodox Church to be the Historical New Testament Church?

Excerpted from a interview of Fr. Peter Heers by Michael Sisco, November 2020.
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[@maaikekamstra7353]

Father Peter Heers say:"When you want to find the Truth just look at the Saints". Yes. This is True. I am a baby Orthodox Christian, reading the Philokalia, reading now Saint Gregory Of Palamas. There writings pull the root of doubt away in my soul. So now I don't have any excuse anymore to be not 100% obedience to the Truth and fighting the good fight. So good to see and hear you again dear Father.

[@ΟΟύτις]

I love Palamas.Greetings from Greece

[@Georgeos777]

so you simply believe in something written which proofs nothing, you have to do something yourself and the result shows you that its right or not, its all about expirience, if you watch porn every day and and stop it because of god, after a while you feel and understand it was wrong and why, but than its a expirienced truth and through this comes trust/faith, not some blind following.

[@uroszivkovic9988]

I'm sure that was his argument.

[@nicolaj622]

Years ago my canonicus (I was Roman-Catholic) told in a discussion: The orthodox must have theTruth, because they say: The holy Spirit is leading the Church! That word never left my mind, and so after some hesitation I went to see for myself....what can I say........ God was there, the whole church breathed Heaven, so I stayed, what else could I do. Remembering this very moment strucks me again, and again, and again, and make me humble cause the Lord, our Father loves his children so much, and experiencing this is so overwhelming........ GLORY TO GOD, who loves his children so much! GLORY to GOD for all and everything!

[@natedog94100]

If the Holy Spirit is leading the church then why is there so much division within the church. Does the Holy Spirit lead Russia and the church in their various human rights violations? I pay no more attention to the self righteous clergy and their claims. They're all full of it.

[@evans3922]

God Bless you ...!!

[@kostpap3554]

@@natedog94100 Whatever is what you call division, it was there from the beginning, pre-schism. So you are essentially confirming him.

[@natedog94100]

@@kostpap3554 That's not how you spell beginning.

[@kostpap3554]

@@natedog94100 Fast writing error. Corrected. Thank you.

[@grugg5353]

Even if you were to look at it from a secular historical standpoint it is obvious that the Eastern Orthodox Church is the authentically original church of the apostles

[@gabrielgabriel5177]

No way. Dont hear those modern trends. In the apostolic era the church was nothing like modern orthodox church. Not even after that era in the first century. Only in second and third and fourth centuries is started to be like modern orthodox. In the begining the apostolic church was just like the chinese underground house church movement is in modern days. Ignatius wrote his letters decades after this apostolic era. We dont have any historical evidence that apostoles had icons, garments, liturgy, church building, gold, insence and all that fancy stuff. Historically the first church was very much like underground house churches in persecuted countries especcially China.

[@terrytzaneros8007]

Orthodoxy - the hidden pearl of great price.

[@acekoala457]

I was told to read the Lives of the Saints in America and I did and I never knew Orthodoxy had so much history in the past 200 years.

[@piotrbukowczyk2575]

Before becoming Orthodox I didn't know so much about missionary activity of the Orthodox Church not only in America, but also in Europe, Asia, Africa. Some Roman Catholic priest deny that to this moment, showing their ignorance or trying to fool their hearers or readers. An example of that (a lecture in Polish): kzbin.info/www/bejne/nHaaiZyqp8edmrM

[@jelcheikh]

Great video. For a simple person like myself, I imagine travelling back in time, in a time machine and going back 100 years, 500 years or even 1000 years. Walking into an Orthodox Church would still feel like home, nothing much would have changed. You can't say the same about the hetrodox, (with a few exceptions) but the western churches would feel like they've landed on mars in that same time machine. If Christ is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, then it stands to reason that His Church is recognisable no matter the age.

[@Troy-Moses]

That was an unexpected response -- so unexpected, that I had to listen to it four consecutive times. The points were also spot on: the Orthodox Church is the living witness to the Holy Apostles. As a catechumen I was taught that the Acts of the Apostles did not end with "Amen" because the work of the Church has not ended, but endures until today.

[@mamafortuin]

Thank you for this, Michael! Fr. Peter Heers is a true father to the Church in our age! May God grant him many more years to minister to us! 🙏❤️☦️

[@MarcusBarnabassisSystersSonne]

thank you, Fr Peter, your words always go right to the core of the matter and reorient immediately toward Christ. I am now a catechumen hoping to be baptized soon into a ROCOR Church that the Holy Spirit led me to and that the Holy Spirit abides in. God bless you!

[@OrthodoxEthos]

Thanks be to God! May it be blessed! When will you be baptized? May God give you strength to focus on the preparation - a process of purification from the old man and passions, and not only a bookish approach to obtaining knowledge ABOUT the Church and Christ.

[@MarcusBarnabassisSystersSonne]

Thank you, Fr Peter. My spiritual father has not given me the exact date of my baptism; I am wholly obedient to his guidance and so will wait for his declaration. Thank you for what you said regarding the "old man", I will not forget what you said. Your videos and lessons and words are always helpful, God bless you!

[@ivygarcia9525]

Thank you Father. Praise God for the beauty of Orthodoxy and may our Lord help us preserve it pure and unpolluted!

[@stavrouladeessegloria]

Minutes 6:00 A New Testament is the whole experience and life of the people of God of the body of Christ from the first to the second coming. That's the New Testament that's the New Testament's people and Church. Looking at the Old Testament we had the whole history it's not just the first five books of the Old Testament that is the Old Testament,; we have the Prophets, we had the Wisdom literature, we have so much more historical literature, and the whole life of the people of God had recorded, and that's over thousands of years. That's what the New Testament was, that doesn't stop at 70 AD, or 100 AD or 200 AD it's the same one until the second coming. So that's the CONSISTENCY IS VERY CLEAR if one takes the time and dwells into the lives of the Saints. That's where we HAVE TO LOOK. If you want to find the TRUTH, you look at the Saints. The SAINTS are Par EXCELLENCE the CHURCH. Those are the ones who have to look to see what it means to be in Christ."

[@Nobody-j9e]

Saint Mark 9:38-40 John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in your name, and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us.” Jesus replied, “Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name who can at the same time speak ill of me. For whoever is not against us is for us.

[@oroGold-s5b]

Orthodox Church is a very beautiful Church

[@protestanttoorthodox3625]

"You will know them by thier fruit"...

[@Nobody-j9e]

Saint Luke 12:2-3 There is nothing concealed that will not be revealed, nor secret that will not be known. Therefore whatever you have said in the darkness will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered behind closed doors will be proclaimed on the housetops.

[@GRATEFUL4ORTHODOXY_ADAMB_]

Amen. Thank you Father Heers. Lord Jesus christ son of God have mercy on me an unworthy sinner.

[@charlesmaximus9161]

Glory to Jesus Christ! ☦

[@Nobody-j9e]

Saint Matthew 16:18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

[@LeutherGreengager-ip1uw]

God's edifying mouthpiece.

[@ΓεώργιοςΝτέλμας]

Ευχαριστώ πάρα πολύ

[@gigig2492]

God grant you many years, dear Father Peter! Please pray for us. The Governor of Virginia just increased restrictions effective 11/15. No more than 25 people may gather together and of course the mask mandate is still in full force in all public places. Lord have mercy on us! ☦️🙏🏻

[@stavrouladeessegloria]

6:53 Those are the ones who have to look to see what it means to be in Christ. There are many-many sinners, there are many apostates or they're even living throughout the history of the Church, in the Church in spite of their apostasy, then they're deluded, they're not living, they're secularised, you're not gonna look to those people to find out what the Orthodox Church's about, just like you wouldn't within any group. When you're looking at the ones who are faithful adherence who are teaching and those who are the ones who gave us the witness of that body and the Church, I think THOSE THREE THINGS come to mind I hopefully you know how much time, but that's what I would say we can expound it if we want to but this what I would say: It's THE LIFE OF THE SAINTS throughout the ages and the EXPERIENCE of THEOSIS and then the CONSISTENCY of NOT ONLY the CANON SCRIPTURE BUT the WHOLE EXPERIENCE of THE NEW TESTAMENT, of which is the Body Of Christ from the first to the second coming."

[@bluedonkeyman]

Thanks ! ! !

[@jeffblanro7952]

Yes!

[@Dlee-eo5vv]

Very succinct.

[@ds9876]

The EXPERIENCE of the saints is the way we know which ecclesiastical body is the true Church? Is that the view of Fr. PH? Please quote one Church Father who says that prior to the 20th century. Thank you.

[@OrthodoxEthos]

Please go back and listen to the comments in context and reconsider.

[@ds9876]

@@OrthodoxEthos I have listened to them - twice. I have also heard this line of argumentation for over a dozen years in Orthodox circles. The problem is this: if I'm an outsider, looking for the Truth, and I am told that the way to know the Truth (i.e. which Christian body to join) is to read the lives of the saints of, say, Orthodox and Catholic (post-schism I guess) saints, why would I think that St. Paisios confirms Orthodoxy and St. Damien of Molokai (leper colony) does not "prove" Catholicism? It's pure subjectivism. You may not agree with my characterization, but I have tried to give an example of how your method *doesn't work*. You obviously disagree. We can leave it at that.

[@OrthodoxEthos]

Imagine yourself trying to “prove“ why Christ is the Savior rationalistically, with “proofs” and all the rest. The Pharisees knew all the prophecies and they knew He was the Christ. Why did people follow Christ?? Because it was proven to them after a study of the Scriptures? That alone would not have done it. It was the experience. Because he had the words of eternal life. Because no man ever done the work he had done. Because he was the fulfillment of the prophets in word and deed. Because they were convicted internally. For an outsider it’s all subjectivism. And it always will be. The same that applied to Christ also applies to the church today for it is His Body. We preach crucifixion of the intellect. The missionary convicts more by his actions than by his words. The example, the Lord told us, will communicate that we are His disciples. People see Christ today in the Church IN the Saints. That’s how it’s “proven.”

[@jeffroxis]

​@@OrthodoxEthos I would pose the question (of DS) differently. How can I think that St. Paisios confirms Orthodoxy and stands true as an example of the Body of Christ, but St. Damien of Molokai (leper colony) does not stands true too as a living example of the Body of Christ, and as such confirms Catholicism as a "true faith" too (i.e. not heretical) ? Shall the Orthodox Church dismiss and "forget" all those catholic saints, and true living examples of the Body of Christ", just because they declared allegiance to a different canon ? Or worse, viewing them as liars ?... If the criteria for defining an Orthodox faithful is the adherence and living under the "New Testament" (as Fr.P.Heers defines it), and the visible results that come from their lives, then we should also admire and commemorate all those "righteous men (and women)", the true Body of Christ, in any Church, be it denominated Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, or else. And class all the discussions about what is "heretical" and what is not, according to the different Church views, as a secondary matter.

[@Nobody-j9e]

Saint Matthew 18:18 Truly I tell you whatever you bind on Earth will be bound in Heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven.

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

I'm not questioning the main message because I do find the Orthodox Church appears to be the same Apostolic church but I want to know how does Orthodoxy perceive the miracles and fruits and saints of Christianity that are found in other denominations?

[@OrthodoxEthos]

With skepticism but ultimately lifting up to God and His judgment, Who alone knows the hearts but also all of the various machinations - of angels and demons - beyond the boundaries of the Church. In no case, however, can the Church appropriate that of the confessions as identified with the work of the one Church. The Holy Spirit undoubtedly works throughout all creation and among all men to bring all to salvation, to the degree and depending on the disposition of each. Therefore, one can accept the possibility of miraculous interventions of God outside of the Church, and yet discerning these as either “of God” or of the enemy, is reserved for the very few who are much progressed in the spiritual life.

[@colmwhateveryoulike3240]

@@OrthodoxEthos Thank you Father. You are most kind to answer. Very good. That is a satisfying answer. One thing that dismays me is when Christians of any denomination are quick to sit in God's throne and pass judgment and it is refreshingly uncommon in Orthodoxy in spite of (or actually probably because of...) having the strongest ground to stand on. But you are right - God and His angels as well as demons are at work all over. I myself was an atheist ecologist and when in despair I sacrificed/lost (combo) my job and home to live in nature and allow her to show me my true purpose as a steward or kill me in the process, God by His grace sent me signs and two people who certainly played the role of angels and even though I explored every narrative of God except the Bible (I had abandoned my childhood faith a decade beforehand) and indeed met their demons who only caused me to throw myself at God's mercy, He saw me through and led me to Christ again. So I have a great hope for all who are not yet saved or incompletely saved and I pray for them everyday. I am only beginning my journey toward baptism and chrismation but I know God has me in His hands and I will struggle ever onward. God bless you and thank you for your good work Father.

[@gabrielgabriel5177]

In reality in the apostolic era the church was nothing like modern orthodox church. Not even after that era in the first century. Only in second and third and fourth centuries is started to be like modern orthodox. In the begining the apostolic church was just like the chinese underground house church movement is in modern days. Ignatius wrote his letters decades after this apostolic era. We dont have any historical evidence that apostoles had icons, garments, liturgy, church building, gold, insence and all that fancy stuff. Historically the first church was very much like underground house churches in persecuted countries especcially China. The apostolic church in the book of acts was very simple and flexible. Their main goal was to preach the gospel. They sell what they had and everything was common to them. They gathered in homes. they were persecuted. There were lot of moracles. They did prophecy. Ordinary christians had gifts of spirit. They all were called saints. The orthodox church is NOTHING like this. It just so far away from the original apostolic church. Please dont be fool. Christ has a commamdmet for you. You should be preaching the gospel and work for the Lord not to turm inside only focusing on yourselves. Yes we nees to live simple and sacrificial and holy life but focusing on salvation of others not just of ourselves. Its wrong humiilty. And you are gona tell me are we better than the church fathers? No! But many of church fathers were not good with icons and all that stuff was not even mentiones in the first and second centuries. Even the sign of the cross was mentioned first by tertullianos and its very very late. We have the book of acts and epistles. They are enough evidemce for us what was the first Church like. After that era it started to change bit that is no wonder. Even today the strong revivals can turn upside down in few decades.

[@In-Chisinau]

1:02 WHAT NAME, PLEASE? In 4-6 centuries bishops anathemized Christians, who do not ask for prayers from those fallen asleep. Who were those anathemized? Did they pray only to the Father, Who cares for His children?

[@Blazingwaffles123]

Photius has entered the chat

[@user-anargiroinoe01]

ΕΥΛΟΓΕΙΤΕ ΠΑΤΕΡ ΠΕΤΡΟ. ΑΠΟ ΕΛΛΑΔΑ. ΜΠΟΡΕΙΤΕ ΝΑ ΒΑΛΕΤΕ ΚΑΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΥΣ ΥΠΟΤΙΤΛΟΥΣ; ΤΗΝ ΕΥΧΗ ΣΑΣ. Πατήρ Ιάκωβος Στρκός Ιερέας.

[@jeffroxis]

How can I think that St. Paisios confirms Orthodoxy and stands true as an example of the Body of Christ, but St. Damien of Molokai (leper colony) does not stands true too as a living example of the Body of Christ, and as such confirms Catholicism as a "true faith" too (i.e. not heretical) ? Shall the Orthodox Church dismiss and "forget" all those catholic saints, and true living examples of the Body of Christ", just because they declared allegiance to a different canon ? Or worse, viewing them as liars ?... If the criteria for defining an Orthodox faithful is the adherence and living under the "New Testament" (as Fr.P.Heers defines it), and the visible results that come from their lives, then we should also admire and commemorate all those "righteous men (and women)", the true Body of Christ, in any Church, be it denominated Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, or else. And class all the discussions about what is "heretical" and what is not, according to the different Church views, as a secondary matter.

[@mikebingham976]

St Francis of Assisi, St Pius of Pietrelcina (Padre Pio), St Teresa of Calcutta, St Domenic, St Benedict Joseph Labre, St John Bosco .... and on and on. Oh, how about Our Lady of Fatima and her messages to the world which went unheeded, the miracle of the sun seen by thousands. I really like Fr Heers. But my wife and I will continue our Bible study with Fr Mike Schmitz. And listen to Ralph Martin. And pray for unity. Come Lord Jesus !

[@jeffroxis]

@@mikebingham976 Sure, the list is endless. My great fear (and hope) is because all those who could really help us are now departed. They certainly can help somewhat, but it's quite different from when they were among us. Despite there are many many more of us today, needing help...

[@tg2535]

There is one God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. There is one Christian church that was started from the teachings of Jesus Christ. All the other Christian churches are based on Jesus, but have been changed by man to fit man’s narrative. The Church of England is a great example of this. I as an Orthodox Christian have been taught not to judge other faiths as only God knows where the Holy Spirit goes. There is good and bad in all churches, but I will stick to the church that has the original teachings from Jesus and his Apostles.

[@magdadrague]

2:36 Catholic Chruch? What!??

[@OrthodoxEthos]

What’s your question? This is referring to the confession of faith, the symbol of faith, of the church.

[@magdadrague]

@@OrthodoxEthos I had some issues and could not understand clearly his message, was he trying to say that Catholic Church is the one true and Apostolic one? That sound ecumenical.

[@OrthodoxEthos]

No. Quite the opposite.

[@frankherbert6476]

@@magdadrague "catholic" has nothing to do with the labeled "Roman Catholic church" (which is neither Roman nor catholic) The word/term catholic means "full, lacking nothing" in other words the fullness of the faith. The RCC see it as "everyone belonging"

[@calson814]

@@frankherbert6476 well it does... the proper name for the Church is the Catholic Church not "Roman Catholic Church".

[@PaulDo22]

You can definitely tell by how small and ethno-centric Orthodoxy is. Just like Judaism! Oops, in that case, you would look to the Catholic Church as the Universal Church and not the Orthodox.

[@d01phn37]

no, the catholics recognize orthodox sacraments and saints as valid, while that same view is not shared the other way around. there is literally no reason for an orthodox to convert to roman catholicism

[@PaulDo22]

@@d01phn37 Yes, the Catholic Church possesses the fullness of the truth. Orthodoxy has been a dead religion since 1054. Judaism has been a dead religion since 33 A.D. Why would you belong to a dead religion?

[@d01phn37]

@@PaulDo22 no, orthodoxy is alive and well. and again, the catholic church recognizes the sacraments and saints of the orthodox church so in catholicism it is not possible for orthodoxy to be dead being the other lung of the church.

[@PaulDo22]

@@d01phn37 Correct, insofar as they both participate in Christ's Sacraments which were in place before 1054. Everything after 1054 is no longer considered to be part of the Magisterium of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostalic Church. Judaism is dead for the same reason, although it doesn't have the Christ instituted Sacraments so it's even more dead. You have to have a Magisterium to be considered living.

[@pah9730]

Your criteria are not that of Christ and His apostles. That is, the question of quantity, of size, cannot be the criteria by which one determines the authenticity and the identity of the One Church. For, there was a time, when the church was very very small, and there will be a time again in the days of antichrist, when the church will be again very very small numerically. Therefore, you would need to assess matters with the proper criteria in order to determine the legitimacy - and to convince anyone who’s interested in Truth - of the claims of the Orthodox Church. As for the matter of Phyletism or ethnocentrism, the Church has repudiated this stance and distortion as not consistent with its teachings and this determination was achieved in council and has been embrace by every orthodox Christian and by, most importantly, the saints of the church, who are the last and true authority of the church in every age. Therefore, again, your assessment is incorrect.

[@kadeyt9637]

Lol notice how they never say “read the Bible”

[@henrysmith5784]

He just said that the Orthodox Church gave us the New Testament scriptures? How would that not encourage one to read their Bible? Secondly the liturgies and services of the Church are saturated in scripture. Have you ever experienced an Orthodox service? I am a former Protestant (non-denominational) and my experience has been that Sola Scriptura leaves many gaps and has led to every Protestant pastor being their own Pope, as churches fraction and splinter into thousands upon thousands of new denominations and churches, but God is not the author of confusion. The Orthodox Church truly has preserved the teachings and the ways of Christ and his apostles throughout the centuries. Once I was listening to a history channel here on KZbin, and I was astounded to hear an exerpt from ancient Chinese and their observation of early Christians. What they described can still be found in Orthodoxy today and nowhere else. Peace be with you!

[@FirstnameLastname-py3bc]

Idk every priest says "Read the Bible".