How Documentaries Lie to You

[@darkninjafirefox]

I've noticed how true crime documentary shows have a tendency to place suspicion on people in the stories who ask for lawyers before talking to police. Protecting one's self and rights is not an admission of guilt. There's no shortage of cases about police lying to get confessions out of people.

[@ginkgothestink-o6949]

People thought it was sketchy that she declined to take a polygraph test. Which is what everyone should do if they’re asked to take once since they’re pseudoscience.

[@FAMOUS4EVER3000]

That's also a documentary lol

[@LadyTylerBioRodriguez]

Also it's an old standard for true crime docs to omit details. Making a Murderer did that. The Jinx did that. They made it seem like closed cases.

[@sarads7877]

Exactly, like i have no idea how anything legal works, i’ve never been involved in a crime, never dealt with the police. If i were to find myself in a “true crime” situation, i’d for sure call a lawyer, cause i need someone to guide me through everything, i really don’t need additional stress

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

@@LadyTylerBioRodriguez You're telling me the cops DON'T frame people?

[@khloeknievel3874]

My friend said she didn't watch Tiger King because she "doesn't like Reality TV". I was going to point out it was technically a documentary but honestly, it is getting harder and harder to differentiate between the two.

[@PurpleFlush]

Honestly when I first watched Tiger King from how it was shot, I thought it was a reality tv show

[@sampagano205]

Yeah. Documentaries becoming more and more about artistry and telling a story also means the line between reality TV and documentaries is becoming one of the class it's being advertised for.

[@JohnSmith-lk9fv]

PurpleFlush most of the clips are from his reality show on KZbin and videos shot for a reality show.

[@duffman18]

@@sampagano205 yeah, umm, documentaries have _always_ been about constructing a narrative that might not really exist. Except perhaps nature documentaries. But even then you've got ones like the Disney one people have mentioned that created the myth of lemmings walking off cliffs to kill themselves by just shoving them off them. Maybe just stick with anything David Attenborough does, all the good BBC nature documentaries, but other than that, yeah This is certainly not a new trend. Back at the very beginning of cinema, before even TV was a thing, most documentaries had at least some lies in them, and some just created complete fiction from beginning to end. If anything it's gotten better since then, because at least people can so easily research the truth compared to a century ago. Of course the onus is on the viewer to actually do the research or not, so that's why something like Loose Change is so popular, because few bothered to research it and find out how many lies are in it. But there are at least articles and papers on it done by actual scientists and engineers that are easy to find.

[@TheEmmaHouli]

@@sampagano205 OH DAMN! you just said some shit!!!!!! I mean - I love it - its a thesis statement!

[@throwawayonmain]

glad i wasn't the only one who was caught off guard when they glossed over the whole sex cult thing

[@katc2040]

Fr. They obviously weren't very bothered about it and seem very sexist 😒

[@Agpicklefeet]

​@@katc2040 For real though, especially with the whole Doc Antle thing. He was practically grooming young women...It's disgusting how little that was expanded upon.

[@katc2040]

@@Agpicklefeet absolutely. And everyone who fell right into their agenda don't care either.

[@arturzinurov4781]

@K C maybe cause this documentary is about tiger king and how he got to in jail for attempted murder? What the fuck is there to get from the sex cult that we didn’t get? They went to his former member got the story they went around “tigers street” what the fuck else you wanted? Now the thing they really skipped is how Joe forced 2 straight guys into a polygamous marriage everybody else knew about it and didn’t do shit the only reason the first one didn’t shoot him self as well is cause he had his wife near by.

[@arturzinurov4781]

Agpicklefeet what are you talking about? What is there to expand on? They asked everybody about it they went to the former member they went around the “””zoo””” what more do you want?

[@kadoharp]

I definitely had to watch supersize me in 7th grade health class, and even the teacher was like "dont take this too seriously, it's just so you know not to mistreat your body"

[@iveyink]

We had to watch it like 3 times I used it as fuel for my eating disorder lol

[@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick]

Your health class told you not to take it seriously? Lucky.

[@hooman4835]

@@iveyink same bro hope you’re in recovery/recovered now

[@sarinabina5487]

i hate supersize me with a passion. we were shown the first half in 9th grade and they were gonna show the 2nd half the next day and my mom had 2 get them 2 let me do a different health project in a different room bc after i saw it i hardly ate that day (im fine now. i quickly found out from the internet how fake it is)

[@abaddon2148]

we didn't even get shown supersize me bc even my oldschool health teacher knew it was 100% proven BULLSHIT.

[@mothmanghost983]

Honestly, I largely came out of the Tiger King documentary just thinking everyone was absolutely crazy. It is certainly clear that the show seemed to be framing Joe as someone that would receive sympathy, but I just saw him as just as crazy and delusional. The whole exotic pet trade is a mess, and it is unfortunate that it is at the expense of all those animals. I really do wish the documentary addressed this abuse a bit more, but it unfortunately was not the main focus.

[@selty]

You shouldn't come out thinking all are equal, though. Aside from the volunteer side of the actual rescue/zoo industry, Big Cat Rescue is perfectly fine. It's accredited, award-winning and very beloved. It was really terrible how they basically made a smear campaign against it for the sake of the fun.

[@V2ULTRAKill]

@@selty big cat rescue is fine yes But carole is not

[@pabrodi]

@@selty Because stealing the money from her missing husband's family, and then going to justice to take out the home of an elderly lady is a completely reasonable thing to do, right?

[@Syphaxis]

@@selty Perfectly fine, really? I wouldn't call any organization PETA endorses to be, 'perfectly fine'. Controversial statement at best.

[@selty]

@@Syphaxis National Geographic, Humane Society, Carolina Tiger Rescue, Global Federation of Animal Sanctuaries. Just a few places who support BCR and have defended them. So its not just PETA. I encourage you to look at their KZbin channel. You can see dor yourself their enclosures, care and the transparency. They also try their best to educate about this huge issue

[@lionlessart]

I dunno how people could come out of that "documentary" not thinking just about everyone involved was terrible. Lol The only people I felt sorry for were the animals and some of the employees.

[@selty]

That means that the documentary filmmakers did a shit job, basically. They are pretty shit though... like they paid subjects (huge no no) and clearly have no clue about animal care if they say animals in any cages should be killed.

[@mackcat5491]

I just think they left a lot out. They really showed some misleading videos for Big Cat Rescue which implied they were worse than Exotic when there is a lot of proof that they are a legitimate sanctuary that does good work for the animals. But that didn’t fit the narrative of making Carol a bad guy.

[@Maxrepfitgm]

@@mackcat5491 Maybe, maybe it doesn't fit your narrative of making her saint. Why trust you or some random youtuber to be objective? This guy claims the documentary has a bias, but he clearly has one too.

[@selty]

@@Maxrepfitgm people are defending an animal rescue and its owner from incredibly unfair and harmful slander. Its simple. My bias runs with the big names who have defended BCR. National Geographic did an AMA on the Netflix reddit defending BCR and criticising the show for not incentivizing people to take action against this rampant abuse. Specifically Steve Winter who is a big cat expert 20 years in the field of studying wild big cats and educating others on whats going on. Hes hugely respected in the animal world. Why would he legit visit the rescue and defend it if he didnt believe it was a good place? Look him up Blackfish. What happened? The world pushed Sea World to stop abusing orcas and marine mammals. Tiger King. People hate on a rescue and many want to go to these private zoos more.

[@greenoftreeblackofblue6625]

@@selty They did a great job showing the true personalities of the people in the show the animals weren't the fucking point.

[@elliotm7833]

I'm surprised you didn't bring up the infamous Disney documentary that invented the myth that lemmings regularly run off the edge of cliffs and die by forcing them to actually do that and filming it

[@marianososa1551]

White Wilderness

[@NoGoodNik1]

It can't really be given credit for inventing the idea, but it definitely helped popularize it

[@adeer87]

*Jenny Nicholson*

[@nickstadler1906]

...or the OG of BS documentaries: Nanook of the North!

[@JohnsDough1918]

@@nickstadler1906 it's disgusting how blindly respected this movie still is nowadays. The Inuit in Canada are still paying the price of that kind of missrepresentation .

[@dapperghastmeowregard]

"How could the family fall for that?" Yeah, why would people whose 13 year old child had been missing for almost half a decade be desperate for any shred of hope regardless of its plausability from a "rational" perspective :P.

[@maple_fields]

Tony Zhou from Every Frame a Painting has a really good video on The Imposter. His take on it is more or less that it pulls the trick on you to show you exactly how convincing the guy is.

[@onikinhas]

@@maple_fields You just gave me a reason to go and find out why I haven't seen Every Frame a Painting in my feed in so long. Thanks!

[@erraticonteuse]

It's not even like there aren't other famous cases of similar things happening before. There is that one that was the basis of the movie "Changeling", where the mother of the missing child later admitted that she thought the boy who claimed to be her son might not be him but it would make her look bad if she turned him away. And then there was another one (I forget the names but I remember BuzzFeed Unsolved did an episode on it), the community as a whole basically scapegoated a local poor sharecropper and claimed that his visiting nephew was "actually" some rich family's son that he totally kidnapped. People like satisfactory conclusions, and especially if it lets them pretend a child isn't dead, they can delude themselves or even ruin other people's lives to preserve that idea.

[@rebeccacummings6697]

Bad mindset. Thinking more logically stops these things from happening.

[@Chelaxim]

@@rebeccacummings6697 but the thing is the French guy was known for doing this multiple times in different countries implying that he is good at it.

[@ellianakaplan1819]

I felt so mad after watching 'Don't Fuck With Cats' because in the last minute of the documentary they remind you that the killer wanted attention and fame, and by watching the documentary we gave him everything he ever wanted

[@doradelaney8089]

I said exactly that.. That's why I won't watch

[@kaiyodei]

i almost felt worse because I wanted mail the guy jerky shaped like his mom with fake blood sauce

[@vingram100]

Same, I haven't been fooled since then. I think that the Serial Podcast caused this fad to become popular and Netflix is capitalized on it with Making a Murderer and the rest of their lame documentaries.

[@oo4667]

I thought it was so stupid how they blamed the viewers for watching and ~giving him more attention~ even though they were the ones who made the documentary in the first place for the purpose of being watched. really soured my experience with it

[@thefailedartist6344]

Only part I didn’t like was the end message🤢🤮

[@Yora21]

"Everything you've just seen was the truth. And by truth, I mean lies. But they were entertaining lies. And aren't these the real truths? The answer is, of course, no." - The Simpsons, 1997.

[@daniela8914]

season/episode?

[@jakerockznoodles]

@@daniela8914 The Simpson Files - Season 8 Episode 10 Its the one where Homer thinks he's seen an alien.

[@benson4u215]

Sounds like side show Bob narrating

[@lusgatao]

@@benson4u215 it's actually leonard nimoy if i'm not wrong

[@dylanhicks48]

I just watched that episode and was going to like this comment but it had 333 likes and I couldn't ruin that.

[@megankoeller1554]

Thanks for making this video. I was so annoyed by this documentary when they first introduce Carole and the director says “oh, she looks perfect.” Implying that her outfit proves that she’s crazy. It proves to me that the director was more interested in sensationalizing than actual journalism.

[@megankoeller1554]

Also, my favorite documentary is Werner Herzog’s Cave of Forgotten Dreams

[@TheMonicaAlison]

Apparently it was the same executive producer who made the Netflix Fyre Festival documentary, which ended up being criticized for being coproduced with Jerry Media, the company that promoted the festival and covered up the fraud, so it's not surprising that they'd sensationalize the shit out of Tiger King.

[@princejellyfish3945]

@@megankoeller1554 seriously Cave of Forgotten Dreams is mesmerizing

[@canitbechristine]

This was great. Tiger King ticked me off in that it hurt a legit animal rescue, Big Cat Rescue, in Tampa. They lost support from some as they watched the "doc". Like Baskin or not, the team at Big Cat Rescue do a good job. The public can even go there and see it for themselves.

[@raulruizdevelasco6215]

I know. The problem with people is that once they’ve already made up their mind on something, it’s very hard to persuade them. I provided people with articles and footage to make them see Big Cat Rescue was actually a good place, but they straight out refused to listen.

[@maelygoncalves870]

@@raulruizdevelasco6215 Big Cat Rescue doesn't exist anymore? Wow, that place rescues big cats for real and take good care of them. Totally different from that monstrous thing "Tiger King" does. It's astounding how the law permitted this to happen.

[@graphitetailgrace3870]

Big Cat Rescue is great. While I can't support them directly (not political or religious shit, I just don't have the funds) I have watched their videos and their cats seem to be in great shape with no do stress whatsoever. A sad number of them have passed away, though.

[@Tavdogg11]

​@@maelygoncalves870 they are still running, but due to COVID and animal safety, it's currently closed to the public

[@espeon871]

Right! Carole is NOT Big cat rescue. Shes the founder but shes not the organisation! So for people to just use their personal dislike of her based off fundamentally nothing to stop supporting something thats helping the cats involved and the only good thing to be shown in this whole docummentary based on that personal gripe is so annoying!!

[@VanN000]

Makes me really glad that this bullshit gets called out. Hearing people talk about even the possibility that Joe wasn't a bad guy just irks me, while same said people like to go off on Baskin because she's the stereotypical crazy Peta lady. You see all this bs how "she definitely did it", but have literally nothing to go by other than the internet's supposed psychology degree saying "look at her lack of grief" for a cheater and abuser. But fine, let's just go back into making Joe somewhat pitiable despite abusing his animals and manipulating guys less than half his age to "marry" him.

[@ggundercover3681]

@L3giTxSniPE yea well ppl do get manipulated. ppl are dumb and don't realise the crap they got themselves into.. I think the person here is just saying the point in a simple but effective manner. though exxagerrated (I don't know it could be that bad of manipulation and stupidity). I think you're looking into the literal wording too much when you know you have the common sense to derive the intention of the comment. don't be nitpicky when there is no need ot. besides the guy is just questionable in so many other aspects if you disagree with this point (which is perfectly fine to disagree)

[@needmusicnow7]

I was surprised when I found all these memes about joe being this lovable goof. My takeaway from the documentary was everyone mentioned sucked and at some point has done illegal things. I was severely disappointed that the animals weren't the main focus, and felt physically ill when they talked about doc whatever his name is. The dude has named himself Bhagwan, which is the Hindi word for God. That said it all to me...

[@selty]

The issue is though is that Carole and Big Cat Rescue doesn't suck. Carole has some loose evidence she was involved in her abusive, drug-dealing husbands death. Big Cat Rescue is accredited and in league with all the Big Cat sanctuaries in the US. The only discussion that should come up is the use of volunteers but it is a global controversial topic about non profits, not specific to them.

[@needmusicnow7]

@@selty yeah she's the closest to a reasonable person in the documentary. The only thing that made me uncomfortable was the way her volunteer organization was set up seemed almost like an MLM. But it's hard to know if that's just because of the extremely biased framing of the documentary or an indication of actual questionable practices. Either way, she was the only somewhat normal person shown.

[@saramatheson509]

Bad Jokes the reason the volunteers have different color shirts has more to do with seniority, those that have been there longer have been trained to feed/clean the enclosures for the larger cats which they don’t let newer people do. It’s an easy way to identify who is qualified for what. If you want more information about the way her system is set up there is a really interesting reddit thread written by a former employee of BCR.

[@Maxrepfitgm]

@@selty Oh get out of here, she definitely sucks and is a sociopath. Joe is an idiot, Doc is an arrogant narcissist and master manipulator, (Joe is too preying on young men and hiring disadvantaged employees who are desperate). Point is, Joe pays his employess slave wages and takes advantage of vulnerable people, but volunteers and interns are just a dignified way of getting free labor. Best thing for people to do is not visit any of these zoos, sanctuaries, etc and starve them of their profits.

[@tay-sw5wh]

swooping is bad tho but i dont understand why she kept them cats in tiny small cages when she was criticizing people who had way way way bigger cages than she kept them in. i dont understand. it doesnt seem like she really cares about them if she does that

[@jaye156]

I also thought it was sad that they didn't really acknowledge the drug fuelled gay marriages. They just kinda glossed over it.

[@burnteffigy87]

Ie the grooming of young men by Exotic? yea..it was unnerving and irritating

[@gillianc592]

Im sure that Travis actually committed suicide because he was apparently being kept hostage by Joe. Poor kid and the fact that Joe made the funeral all about him and how sad he was. Travis's mum was just pushed aside. I would have cracked up.

[@billyweed835]

How do you cover any situation involving drug-fueled gay marriages and not have that part be the most notable?

[@themyofmy]

@@billyweed835 drugs are cool, grooming is not. thanks for listening to my insane ramblings, gamers 😛

[@sonorasgirl]

That and they kinda only half covered the weird dude exploiting women - doc or whatever, and tried to make him look sane. There was so much weird angles on all of this I genuinely didn’t understand why they tried to make some people sympathetic. All of the main male characters were pretty predatory to younger folks :/.

[@ladyreverie7027]

See when I watched Tiger King I came away HATING Joe with a fiery passion, and I can't believe that the average viewer actually liked him and hated Carole Baskin.

[@mikehewitt2146]

Good for you can't stand the scum bag either

[@justincovert6943]

Im came away from that thinking that thier all crazy psychos.

[@loganrausch5679]

Every one in that story was a piece of shit.

[@Smile4theKillCam456]

@@justincovert6943 their*, and that’s not even the right form- it’s they’re

[@justincovert6943]

@@Smile4theKillCam456 right you are. Still doesn't change how insane they all are.

[@adrenalinevan]

This reminded me of how manipulative Shane Dawson's documentaries are

[@user-lg5xu6id5j]

Or just Shane in general lol

[@j.albert2311]

Interviewee: [makes a good point] Shane: [makes a Jim face at the camera] Editors: [dramatic thump noise]

[@jackm.j.3549]

Okay but his conspiracy content is so god damn lazy. Like if you listen to podcasts like Astonishing Legends then go back to his shit it's just to obvious his only sources are like...wikipedia and a quick google search. And like conspiracy theories are iffy in terms of research and it's so much more interesting looking into the who and why behind them as opposed to the theories themselves. Like Shane Dawson wouldn't know a peer reviewed article if it bit him in the ass.

[@awfulwoman]

Lmao remember that dumb bullshit he made up about Chucky Cheese pizza? That n his videos are like 90% filler. The fact people have called them “documentaries” is so comically stupid.

[@adrenalinevan]

@@j.albert2311 the fucking faces he pulls drive me up the bloody wall. How can one person be so astonished or nervous about everything they hear or see? It's so obviously an act those videos were painful to watch

[@Cassie-on3gq]

it is scary how some people came out of tiger king completely on joe's side, not including the ones joking

[@Cassie-on3gq]

SeriousName fictional tv is one thing, but joes done some pretty horrible stuff

[@KnightmareOX]

I could tell from the first episode the guy was batshit. It only got worse from there. He's entertaining and funny sure but not a good person in any way.

[@Account.for.Comment]

@SeriousName 1. Fiction. 2. The villian killed people who tried to kill him (for most of the story any way, Gale the liberterian chemist was the first innocent hit and it still in self-defense) and people who voluntary choose to destroy their own brains (the scene with the kid exists as moral reminder but his parents are still the ones who destroyed him whether White cook it or not). 3. Tragedy, Breaking Bad is about a good man who strive do best for his family as he done all his life and became a villian and destroy his family and all he ever love despite his effort to provide for them. It made not apology for his actions but for its initial purpose. Had he has proper lives and healthcare, he would not resort to crime. 4. The villian is a person trying to overcome known societal problems (hospital bills, unpaid maternity, low paid teachers) by going to the unknown societal problems (luckily for me, I never know anyone personally who got fucked by meth).

[@Account.for.Comment]

@SeriousName Forgot 5. The underdog. He faced cruels villians who had more experienced and resources and able to defeat them with sheer awesomness. And 6. Ever played Grand Theft Auto. This is an adaptation I never expevted to see. Yeah, 5 is the reason why some cheers for that loser in real life.

[@Trancer006]

Who cares whos good whos bad? Lol. Everybody has a fav character they root for.

[@lambrosk3790]

Reminds me of Netflix’s “making of a murderer.” The barber shop I work at, everyone who described it said. “It’s about a guy who killed these people but the cops couldn’t prove it.” Then my sister in-law tells me to watch Tiger King and when I asked “what’s it about?” My nine year old niece said “it’s about a woman who killed her husband and fed it to her Tiger.” Reminds me of the news telling us a crazy story while we all just assume it’s true cuz it’s so sensational. Kinda creepy when you think of the implications

[@DSDaly]

Making a Murderer did a great job at convincing me Avery was innocent. Then I actually looked into the defense's evidence and turns out it's all BS. His nephew is definitely innocent though. That poor kid. I don't know how anyone could watch that interrogation video and think his confession was genuine.

[@sophiegardner8726]

P

[@Nik.No.K]

I was about to say hang on, it's been a long time since I've seen making a murderer but I'm pretty sure that's not what the message was...

[@TheVojvoda]

@@DSDaly I literally couldnt watch the show because that show made me so scared, sad, and angry. Not from the whole show. Just the nephew. No child should be treated like that.

[@FTZPLTC]

The weird thing is that a lot of these documentaries aren't even subtle. Stuff like Supersize Me and Tiger King aren't just bullshit - they're OBVIOUS bullshit. It makes me think that a lot of people who talk about them didn't actually watch them, and just heard other people's takes on them and parroted them themselves. Because how else would so many people be able to claim to be persuaded that Carol Baskin is a bad person, or that Morgan Spurlock's "experiment" in eating lots of unhealthy food proved something.

[@Mathee]

I remember once in class, our teacher told us we were gonna watch a movie without giving additional context. The movie was a mockumentary about a former danish prime minister, opening on his supposed recent death. The movie continued talking about fake events that became more and more outlandish as it went on. After the movie, the teacher asked how many of us had figured out that the movie was not a documentary and asking us what tipped us off to that fact

[@PatrickBoi6497]

please tell me the exact name, it sounds so freakin interesting

[@Mathee]

@@PatrickBoi6497 It's a danish movie, so I severely doubt you'd be able to find it, but it's called "AFR"

[@SuperCatfire]

what. why is this half a story what happened. is there even a punchline

[@Mathee]

@@SuperCatfire Half a story? I just wrote about something I experienced that I thought was relevant to the video. Sorry my real life isn't narratively satisfying or funny:(

[@victorlolxd7347]

Which prime minister

[@boundary2580]

Pretty sure this was the message of The Great Gatsby. Nick as a narrator is shown to be unreliable and narcissistic, and his intelligent unbiased everyman persona has holes constantly poked into it throughout the story. It ends with him realizing that he is no better than the people he criticizes, and how Gatsby’s life was sensationalized to the point where he was barely a person to others.

[@queenzigzag]

huh, wish my english class focused on that instead of whatever the green light was about

[@bonersexpenis6200]

@@queenzigzag THE GREEN LIGHT REPRESENTS THE HULK GATSBY WANTED TO BE THE HULK

[@zaurhasanov5458]

@@queenzigzag well, the green light is the most important idea

[@bbuny10]

Never had to read this but now I want to

[@eddieh7962]

Matt Carlyon I guess youtube comments are doing some kind of good in the world then

[@TheKingKudu]

The thing I hate most about the whole tiger king series is how loosely the word zoo is used because he didn’t just run a “zoo” he ran a shitty roadside zoo that abused its animals and staff there is a big difference between that and accredited AZA (Association of Zoos and Aquariums) zoos. AZA has a lot of standards when accrediting a zoo. A portion of their income has to go to conservation every year, they have to be compliant with FDA regulations and absolutely no animal cruelty (just to name a few of the regulations). The fact that Joe can even call what he has a zoo is disgusting and honestly pretty insulting to people who actually care about the animals they care for and are trying to help them in captivity and outside of captivity. I’ve worked and volunteered at zoos for a long time and to see people either claiming joe exotic wasn’t that bad or lumping his zoo with all the others pisses me off to no extent.

[@selty]

Honestly most people who are calling this shit out do have experience in zoos or rescues. I got to episode 3 and was like.. um... what's wrong with this? That doesn't look like the whole cage... and then they decided to drop the animal abuse topic and I was done

[@sappysaphic420]

I agree; these places are not zoos and in no way should be categorized with actual zoos/rescues/sanctuaries. My local zoo is AZA accredited and there are so many rules and regulations you have to follow to be accredited, and it takes a lot of work to uphold those standards. There are so many people who work with animals that genuinely care about them, but then you have people like Joe who are just down right disgusting. By using the same term 'zoo' to describe the two very different types of establishments you can create confusion about what the place actually is. When the debate of 'should animals live in captivity' comes up many of those who are against it often cite the zoos like Joe Exotic's or other roadside zoos as an example of why they shouldn't be in captivity. But the thing is that is kinda asking two different questions; certainly it is inhumane to keep animals they way did in the documentary and for that I say no animal should be kept in those conditions, but then there are places like zoos, AZA accredited, where the animals are well taken care of and thousands of times better than roadside zoos. I think they should have made a clear distinction between what a zoo is and what Joe Exotic was actually running.

[@Erin-bt5yo]

I totally agree with you. I've interned at an AZA zoo (and was going to do another this summer but it got canceled) and I could not watch tiger king. It sickened me to know that this documentary instead of cracking down on the huge exotic pet/inhumane zoo industry made it into a wacky tv show. Not to mention making it seem like all zoos are bad. The zoo I interned with required two highly trained keepers to just shift the big cats from inside to outside and had weekly training with the cats to keep everyone safe (all training was safely done with metal mesh between). AZA has a STRICT code of care for most species, they have careful breeding programs to prevent health issues, and they have successfully reintroduced multiple species back to the wild. Everything done at joe exotics "zoo" is completely contradictory to what proper AZA zoos do.

[@TheKingKudu]

Alex Cooke I have come in contact with too many people who think what Joe does is the same for all zoos and it’s sad because people like PETA act like zoos don’t care about their animals at all when in reality there isn’t a day that they don’t strive to make sure the animals are happy, healthy, and taken care of. I’m glad that I actually got people who understand this replying I was a little afraid I was going to get an animal activist shit storm

[@TheKingKudu]

Erin Powell same happened to me internship wise 😭 and I could not bring myself to watch it either everything that I’ve heard about the actual documentary is second hand but I have heard way too many stories from Keepers about Joe exotic.

[@dellaliz1610]

I’m honestly came out of Tiger King loving the drama ... and then I watched it again and started to realize how much framing and editing the filmmakers had to do to make Carole seem like she was “just as bad as Joe.” The series seems to try to normalize the rape threats, abuse and murder threats Joe makes against her in his KZbin videos as “oh that’s just Joe being crazy haha” (a podcast mentions Joe’s lawyer even called them “silly videos” in court while examine Carole on the stand). But they’re a clear portrayal of a violent, emotionally unstable man who committed staggering acts of animal abuse (and was/is also a racist). Like this just in: Joe shoving a dildo into a sex doll he called “Carole” and Carole having volunteers for her charity: not moral equivalencies. Everything that was left out for Joe (animal abuse examples, racism, that the tigers he bred have no role in conservation because they’re mutts) made him seem better: everything they left out for Carole (Don’s secretary embezzling, the true size of her cages, the difference between a sanctuary and a zoo, her role in making Don his wealth, releasing Joe’s mom from the lawsuit once they realize she had signed the documents unaware of what they meant, etc) were left out to make her seem worse. And that’s a telling narrative I think.

[@arturzinurov4781]

Della Liz maybe cause she is? The fact that all she needs to do put on some flowers on her head and put on a “””innocent wide eyed look””” is all it takes to idiots like you to start defending her is honestly scary. She doesn’t release those animals but keeps talking about how those people are horrible for keeping these animals in cages and shows them to tourists JUST LIKE JOE AND DOC and if the piece of shit Joe says that the state of the “”zoo”” is horrible then it’s a big fucking problem.

[@emilyjfreer2895]

Della Liz I went out of tiger king just thinking that they’re all bad terrible people

[@crazygur1y]

@@arturzinurov4781 No one is saying that Carole is a saint. She is definitely as greedy and screwed up as the rest of the big figures in the animal industry but Joe was definitely worse. While the murder of Don Lewis is pure speculation, Joe threatening to kill Carole in an obsessive manner is as plain as day. Imagine there was a dude out there shooting things with your face on it, shoving dildos in its mouth, calling you disgusting names every chance he gets. That shit is disturbing. And that's only one tenth of all the horrible things he has said and done. Joe Exotics isn't as “charismatic" and “naive" as the documentary made him out to be. He was shitty.

[@louc.6735]

@@arturzinurov4781 Joe keeps his animals in horrific conditions and says big cat rescue is bad because the animals aren't put on display for people to gawk at. You can't take his word on animal Care seriously when his cages are paved, tigers are fed in ways that encourages fighting, one of his employees lost an arm due to his poor care habits, and these solitary animals are kept in massive numbers. You can't even keep the Zoo Tycoon animals like that smh

[@MatterInMyMind]

@@louc.6735 True but Carole has a Zoo too. Whats the diifference? She has animals in small and poorly maintained cages where the public come and gawk too. She does not pay anyone for their effforts and profits from her "rescue center" sounds like bs to me. All of the Zoo owners in the film are scum with nothing but money on their mind, not the animals health, well-being or protection.

[@1000huzzahs]

"Blackfish" is one of my all-time favorite documentaries, not the least because Gabriella Cowperthwaite went into it with the intention of showing the amazing relationship between humans and whales and ended up accidentally uncovering fraud and abuse. She went where the information took her. In fact the guy who made "Tiger King" wanted it to be "the Blackfish of backyard zoos," meaning it would spur on a reaction against them (the way Blackfish did with Seaworld). Instead he made a reality TV show and demonized the one [admittedly probably imperfect] organization trying to fight backyard zoos.

[@Crowley9]

For similar reasons I really like a documentary titled "The Dark Secret of Hendrik Schön". At first it is about how the titular researcher has developed what promises to be a breakthrough in nanotechnology and what all it could mean for the future. And in the middle it pivots with the discovery that he was fabricating his results and turns into an exploration about what exactly was the extent of his fraud and how he had been able to get away with it so long.

[@Wet-Milk]

isnt blackfish also filled with numerous lies and ommissions? not saying its all lies, but it also def didnt cover everything properly

[@Groves180]

@@Wet-Milk yes, they purposely cut interviews so they sound a certain way and leave out sea worlds extensive work with conservation

[@cohengamertv6548]

Blackfish the doc that single handly ruined sea world

[@josephmaziarz5907]

This doc is straight up depressing but it’s my favorite too

[@lunapyrope9683]

Also Spurlock was vegan without transitioning his digestion before filming Supersize me, so that played a huge role in how he got sick and felt fatigued often.

[@alexreid1173]

The fact that it’s very clear Joe Exotic just hated Carole Baskin for trying to expose his animal abuse… but she’s somehow treated as the enemy… pisses me off to no end. Hell, the fact that he’s called the “Tiger King” in the title of the documentary is just messed up. He literally abused and killed endangered species. Carole Baskin runs a sanctuary for them. Imagine being such an awful person as to make that series.

[@Pterosauria]

joe exotic was a known weirdo in online wildlife rescue circles years back. BCR/baskin was just one of many speaking out against GW zoo. very surreal to hear that the animal & staff abuse stuff was downplayed and it tried to angle for her being the "villain" of that drama

[@ariesearthdragon]

She was the antagonist in the story. Unfortunately, the antagonist is usually portrayed to be the villain.

[@Addiebella]

in terms of husbandry both of them aren’t great but wild that because this documentary presented Joe Exotic in a favorable light that people just forget that he bred hybrids for funsies and neglected a lot of exotic animals to death

[@brianstollings6416]

She’s not running a sanctuary. Stop it.

[@brianstollings6416]

@@Addiebellano one forgets that. The problem here is that NO ONE in that documentary is a good person. No one. Not even CB and her “sanctuary”. The exotic animal trade is full of creeps and dirt bags. This is what the show was trying to show you. There is no hero.

[@HaIsKuL]

"It's possible to make a man who tried to kill a woman seem approachable, but not if he's a bigot." Reminds me of when Jeffrey Dahmer said something along the lines of "yeah, I killed and ate those folks. A lot of guys, mostly women, all of them white, but you have to understand that most of the people from around my area are white. I didn't out of my way to get them specifically. " There's something darkly comical about a rapist, murderer, cannibal worrying about being percieved as a racist.

[@StrogenZalec9456]

Ya gotta draw the line somewhere I guess

[@randylahey8434]

Goes to show you where society's priorities are.

[@TheBlueStarGal2]

@@TheDeliciousCaek despite that, he _still_ at least tried to cover that up, which was literally the least disgusting thing he was being accused of. That's....interesting to say the least...

[@cannibalisticrequiem]

@@TheDeliciousCaek Technically it's possible to find PoC beautiful/attractive while being racist. That's why it's called "fetishism". They've already othered these people through our White Supremacist society's conditioning to treat anyone who is non-white as subhuman, and often there will be added layers of racist stereotyping that helps these racists develop a weird "attraction" or complex for PoC. The more blatantly racist straight white guys (incels that visit MRA websites and subreddits) will often go on weird tangents about "The Black Man" being more physically endowed than them, and due to "The Black Man being more animalistic/wild/carnal" they're inherently better lovers and are capable of better sexually satisfying "The White Man's females", so a weird "attraction" builds from that-- not a normal physical attraction, but a detached fetishistic allure that comes from these racist white dudes having an inferiority complex. Or when racist white dudes date black women, it's not because they're genuinely attracted to them, but more because they've bought into the racist stereotype that black women are more sexually active than white women. Compound that with the othering of BIWoC as being animals compared to the "delicate", "lithe" white women, and you get back into that fetishization and treating these sexual encounters as conquests or achievements. And it happens with racist white women as well. It's harder to call them out on their racist tendencies as they know they can weaponize their tears and feigned sadness for being attacked as an easy cop-out to shut down any meaningful conversation, because our White Supremacist society has deemed White Womanhood as the "real victims" in discussions of racism. But these white women are just as guilty as their racist male counterparts. Although their isn't a weird voyeurism of black women that white women have comparative to racist white men of black men-- it's strictly just a racist inferiority complex where white women will get pissed if anyone puts forth that a black woman is not only pretty but prettier than white women, and that's when their more subtle racism will come to the forefront... racist white women will date black men because they've bought into the racist stereotype of black men having bigger dicks than white men, and therefore are better suited for sexual pleasure, and because of that inherent racism much of white society has towards black men (the belief that black men are more dangerous than white men), white women will often use black men's bodies, not only for their sexual gratification, but to also scare their conservative white parents-- because nothing is scarier to White Supremacy than the idea of a white woman having sex with a black man. These women also fetishize mixed babies, believing them to be "cuter" than non-mixed babies (furthering the belief that PoC aren't people, but subhuman/animals/accessories), but will deeply despise their mixed child(ren) for not being white-- there are a lot of biracial adults out there, especially black mixed folks that share their experience growing up as a half-black, half-white child with a white mom that often despised them or openly displayed their causal hatred towards their children for not being fully white, by making disparaging remarks about any black features they had (nose, hair, skin if they weren't white-passing) being "ugly" to their faces, while doing a 180 and using their mixed kids as props for their white mother's "tolerance" to show off to white friends and family, and other white people how "not racist" they were for having a mixed child. This isn't something necessarily exclusive to white folks. Non-black poc that are anti-black have also participated in this behavior, as have BPoC that engage in colorism BUT, seeing as how I do not belong in any of those groups, I will opt to stay in my lane, and leave the floor open to those who wish to speak about that or share their stories if they choose.

[@HaIsKuL]

@@cannibalisticrequiem Out of mere curiosity, where'd you learn all this jargon (ie. fetishism, POC, BPOC, BlWoC, stay in your lane etc.) ? I've some background in the humanities (Philosophy mostly) and there isn't any other subject, I think, with this niche of a jargon being so pervasive in colloquial language.

[@mxmissy]

I have to say, I was always uncomfortable by the fact that people hated Carol. Except everyone else in the docu was fine?

[@howey935]

They were all scumbags in their own ways and I wouldn’t trust any of them to take care of stick insects.

[@devilhunterred]

I completely disagree. I thoroughly enjoyed Tiger King but I've never liked Joe Exotic, and I felt like the show doesn't paint Joe Exotic in a good light at all, perhaps comedic and funny in an insane way, but never from a positive perspective. The show basically tries to paint both Joe and Carol as two antagonists from the same coin and the entertainment is from their absurd feud and ridiculous drama.

[@turner15]

@Midnite Reveries I get what you mean, but seeing as so much of American identity is tied into entertainment, as long as you make something funny that thing becomes heroic.

[@clairement3734]

People prefer a known evil to scumbag dressed as a saint Joe and his little crew are what they are, I see them, I can tell right away I don't want to be around them and give money to their trash buisness When I see Carol, like MANY "nonprofit" organisations/charities etc, I see a selfless person who gives their everything to help this great cause, and turns out it's a trash buisness

[@Brianna-eo8nu]

Fat person: [exists] Morgan Sperlock: [looks into the camera like it’s The Office in the most annoying way possible]

[@TheNamelessNarrator]

Brianna MacArthur brown super size me actually gave me a lot of body image issues because the way he low key acted like fat people were subhuman.

[@LadyTylerBioRodriguez]

And he thought he could make a sequel.....

[@donotresuscitatetrampstamp]

the way fat people are treated like a joke or basically subhuman JUST because they’re fat is like actually very infuriating if you give it more than 5 seconds of thought

[@duffman18]

One of my favourite documentaries was Fat Head which was a direct response to Super Size Me, and in it a guy ate only Mcdonalds for a month and actually lost weight (along with things like his cholesterol and blood pressure going down), because he didn't eat the buns, and simply ate fewer calories than he burnt. And he spent a lot of time in the documentary pointing out all the blatant lies that were in Super Size Me even down to things like Spurlock lying about how much he was eating per day. A lot of it just didn't add up. The point being not that Mcdonalds was some paragon of health, but just that Super Size Me was very misleading.

[@wyattsbrune7826]

duffman18 I concede my point

[@friedmattato2158]

I don't understand how there are people who look at Joe Exotic as a "cool dude". I watched only the documentary myself, and I came out of it thinking he was a scumbag the entire watch through. I think the people who like Joe Exotic are just bad people already.

[@claytonsmith3882]

I don’t know a single person who watched the documentary and thought Joe Exotic was innocent, much less a saint. Sorry to expose your straw man.

[@revolutionaryrabbit7715]

I mean, basically all of the people in Tiger King were horrible in their own special way...

[@aaronabbey2604]

@@revolutionaryrabbit7715 Yes most everybody shown on the docudrama was human trash. People will interpret their own reality from the show.

[@Mosern1977]

As a non-american, I now know how all Americans are. Crazy people. Please build more walls. :)

[@camerongage1237]

Revolutionary Rabbit I agree. I didn't see how Carole could be accusing Joe of animal cruelty when her setup didn't look any different from his.

[@margotrosendorn6371]

I've watched Big Cat Rescue's channel for years. They're a legit animal sanctuary that does a lot of good, no matter what Carol seems like. As someone who's spent half her life working with animals and volunteering at rescues and shelters, it's infuriating to see people vilify them at the word of their antithesis.

[@eliasmg9144]

The guy from Cole and Marmalade used to work there, so in my book that's a good sign

[@tayshondeeznuts1921]

@@eliasmg9144 cole and marmalade mention lets goooo

[@espeon871]

@@eliasmg9144 yep, and theyve been featured on PBS animal segments

[@Jamick98Geass]

The documentary “Tickled” is such a bizarre story about competitive tickling. Yes that sounds weird, but I assure you that the tickling is the least strange part about it.

[@baneoftechnology]

I was Literally just about to write this comment. Totally one of those documentaries where the truth is stranger than fiction.

[@baroquebougie3527]

Definitely a doc I went into thinking it was such a mundane subject matter and left with my jaw on the floor lol

[@swadloom40]

c o m e a g a i n ?

[@KittyPieVibes]

That one so good, another good one is the Three Strangers, starts out like just a crazy unique occurence and quickly becomes very dark.

[@Gorrash]

Another reaaaally good one, Hands on a Hard Body

[@StardustNovaChannel]

I root for the tigers.

[@kc7157]

Stardust Nova geaux

[@LadyTylerBioRodriguez]

They were the only likable people.

[@uplreality2235]

Tyler Bioshock Rodriguez mr bio shock.. should I even watch the tiger king? Lots of scumbags in the mix and it’s a long watch

[@Dan1elAndrade]

Even against Saff?

[@LadyTylerBioRodriguez]

@@uplreality2235 Its definitely enjoyable and fun. Buuuuut so much gets omitted that its easy to walk away with the wrong impression. Maybe watch it but read up in between episodes.

[@sofiesusi]

Tiger King made me so mad with some stuff. 1. How can you throw out an accusation as heavy as "Carol Baskin killed her husband" and only interview people who hate her on it and the family of her dead husband. That just can't be anything but biased and it's not a light thing to be painting a viased narrative about. 2. The whole Doc whoever the hell grooming young women and having a sex cult next to his horrible "zoo". How can you just throw that out there and not even talk about it any further. That makes me mad as hell... 3. They were only in for the drama. The animals should have been the focus. Those poor poor animals

[@DetectorCliche]

On that third point: Even the documentary itself seems to blatantly go out of its way in the end to explain how stupid it was for the focus to be on the people instead of the animals.

[@knucklescapricorn31]

On your first point: I watched that episode wondering how Carole Baskin had not sued someone or even the show for defamation/libel/slander. That entire episode was people stating declaratively that she had killed her husband and how the body was disposed of, with absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support their claims.

[@EssexAggiegrad2011]

Thank you

[@joseguzman5111]

Yup Carole Baskin didnt kill her husband. Just like OJ didnt kill his wife.

[@lcmiracle]

@@knucklescapricorn31 Because the haters would just call her out and harass her for daring to file for defamation -- that's self-incriminating, you see? Of course, since she didn't, that's just her admitting guilt, see?

[@BirchMonkey857]

A note to people in the future: This was made before the Democratic Party's primaries were finished, and so his reference to "voting for Biden" was in regards to voting for Biden in the primaries as opposed to voting for Sanders or other candidates, not voting for Biden in the presidential election.

[@Cherri_Stars]

Thank you for pointing that out! super important distinction

[@lucadotti2928]

This should be pinned at the top.

[@seanrosen607]

It was reasonable to assume that the creepy child hair sniffer, Alzheimer’s geriatric was going to be the nominee. He has spent years developing and honing his sleezy, corrupt methods over the years

[@nikkcrespo1969]

@@seanrosen607 trump lost, please shut up and wear a mask

[@deltaparadox6118]

@@nikkcrespo1969 I think he's a Bernie fan lmao

[@BugsyFoga]

"How Documentaries lie to you" Super Size:"Why do I get the feeling I'm being called out"

[@thegroove14]

It was made in the Spurlock of the moment

[@ninjacreeper1066]

@@thegroove14 Garrick... GARRICK.... how do you do it you treasure?

[@renee1390]

Nathaniel Foga I have SO MUCH to say about that godforsaken documentary

[@duffman18]

@@renee1390 the counter-documentary Fat Head goes into detail about all the stuff Spurlock lied about in Super Size Me, and also does the same challenge of eating only Mcdonalds for a month, except he actually lost weight doing that, and powered his cholesterol and blood pressure and everything, by simply not eating the carby parts of it like the buns and fries, and eating fewer calories per day. Edit - oh yay, Quinton eventually mentioned it in the video. I shouldn't post before I watch the whole video

[@mew2wand447]

He was an alcoholic during the 30 days

[@frickinfrick8488]

It kinda scares me how quickly the internet can devolve into spreading memes accusing a woman of committing murder because of one documentary. I would never ever walk out of a documentary, KZbin video or anything and feel confident enough to accuse a real life person of a serious crime in public, people are so quick to run with the one story they hear.

[@shinyumbreon696]

And based on testimony from nothing BUT unreliable narrators! Let's see: we have the racist hillbilly who's probably on drugs, a sex cult leader with a doctorate in "mystical science" that probably cost him three box tops and fifty cents to get, a former drug dealer, a manipulative compulsive liar who set Joe up with a hit man to eliminate the competition, and said hit man whose BEST attribute is that he at least had enough good sense to go "Fuck all y'all" halfway through and not actually kill someone. Maybe the real secret behind Tiger King is how it managed to convince millions of viewers that someone imprisoned for trying to murder someone is completely right when he accuses someone ELSE of murder.

[@SchizoMelody]

The TV told me she bad

[@Nightman221k]

The fact that the night of her husband's disappearance she was obviously involved and had her sheriff brother cover for her; it's really suspect. That and she lied about his flights and changed the will. Come on now, let's not kid ourselves, she had a hand in his death and stole the money that wasn't going to be left to her.

[@riverc.820]

@Madeline Monahan So even though there's no evidence that Carol killed her husband, you're claiming that your department used videos of her so that you could magically learn how to read people? Your story is bullshit... and even if it was true, it just indicates that your local police department is filled with pseudo science. I wonder how many innocent people your so called training has harmed? Liar.

[@aldxbaran]

Yeah it's not like tons of evidence points to her or anything

[@ThexDynastxQueen]

I honestly thought the "hate" for Baskin was a legit joke and the "love" of Exotic was that of mockery.

[@lord_boneman]

I was under the same impression.

[@Dogy0909]

Baskin has been attacked constantly and it could literally impact Big Cat Rescue, which is a great nonprofit that I’ve supported for years.

[@fireballhd3224]

i thought Joe acting like a scumbag was an act because i saw some awful animal crossing tiger king parody and seeing everyone saying it's accurate to the show,idk why i was that dumb

[@johannesney2132]

I also made a couple "Carol Baskin killed her husband" jokes among friends. Sometimes we forget that some people actually buy into that and firmly believe it. I dont even want to know how many things I might falsely believe. While sarkasm (in the private context) and story telling (in documentaries) can be great tools, we should always be watchful of how much this changes peoples perceptions.

[@sqike001ton]

I thought it was a joke maybe the love jor joe exotic was legit as people like a crazy idiot

[@dragonofepics7324]

I was surprised when I heard people talking about Baskin like a cult leader, I’ve watched BCR’s KZbin channel since 2016 and I had literally no idea she even existed until Tiger King came out. Seriously! She’s doesn’t even make brief appearances in the videos.

[@TwotakesUknow]

Perfectly summed up my thoughts on this doc. One huge red flag is how the captions for contributors change- e.g. one guy goes from Joe's husband to Joe's ex husband after about 6 episodes! How are you supposed to assess the veracity of what someone is saying with misleading information? When someone is talking about someone else, you need to understand what their relationship is in order to view it critically.

[@RedLucarian]

Also not knowing when the interviews were being conducted makes it difficult to piece the truth together.

[@Josh-ur6dx]

I was just discussing this topic with a friend. I told them to watch a documentary about penguins and look how seals are depicted. Now watch a documentary about seals and tell me the difference. In the penguin one they make seals out to be this villainous creature lurking in the waters. In the seal one they are just these friendly creatures trying to avoid the evil killer whales while they eat some penguins just for survival. And speaking of Tiger King, I found out after the 2nd episode that it wasn't a mockumentary. Watched episode 3 and never picked it back up. I don't really care about watching a hybrid between keeping up with the Kardashians and the Jerry Springer show.

[@Fanimati0n]

I watched it for the memes

[@AnaMaria-wt3ix]

But with animal documentaries it's different. They are always from the perspective of the animal, and both are 'true' that doesn't really work with crime documentaries.

[@kate56ful]

Yeah I turned that shit off after the 3rd episode too. It was painfully biased, I cannot believe millions of people fall for that crap..........

[@justthetruth3950]

I mean ok, but why do some seals r/ape penguins tho!? Some of them are evil, you can't change my mind 😤

[@clockwerkavenger]

now watch one about killer whales, and it'll show you how it desperately needs those seals to feed its newborn calf. This can go on forever lol

[@glassrobot1759]

When I watched the documentary I kept thinking, 'why are we supposed to think Carol is pure evil?' Seriously, even with the film's editing, you can tell that almost all of the terrible things these people are accusing her of are either exaggerated or false. After watching Tiger King, I thought that Joe was more pitiful than monstrous. I thought that he loved his animals in the extremely selfish "I love you, as long as this benefits me" kind of way. But now after learning more about him, it's extremely obvious that he's a monster. The kind of person who could best be described as a demon disguised as a clown.

[@blisterrbub1714]

Absolutely. I was disgusted by the way the documentary completely glossed over Joe's pretty obvious grooming of his very young sexual partners, all of whom seemed pretty mentally unstable and/ or addicts who were brainwashed and bribed by Joe with drugs and money.

[@BatsIndignant]

Not to mention if you watch Big Cat Rescue content they clearly have actual liscenced vets on staff. The "small cages" everyone refers to are a small part of a HUGE ENCLOSURE where they are distracted with food so the staff can clean up and stuff without having to tranquilize the animal. Like, I'm so confused how so many people didn't even do a basic ass Google search after this.

[@kaiyodei]

i guess we're supposed to hate her, like when animal rights people want to take away servicedogs?

[@gumbochumbo5865]

In tiger king we are not supposed to like anyone because they are all awful in there own ways.

[@thgritic102]

@@BatsIndignant As someone who use to watch BCR (stopped before all of this to focus on school), I can concur those sanctuaries for each animals are huge enough for the big cats to run around. As for the cages, they even have little lives showing they feed the animals in the cages and quickly do a run down of clean up before the big cats finishes. I had to keep explaining that to my mom and sister, so thank you for also pointing out those facts.

[@joeblack4634]

Thank you so much for making this video, it perfectly sums up what I felt about Tiger king. Spending an entire episode on the idea that Carol Baskin “MIGHT HAVE” killed her husband with no real proof and presenting her as the villain over pure lies (she’s far from perfect, don’t get me wrong) And then proceeding to put Joe Exotic as just a “quirky, but good at heart man” and only casually dropping the fact he has killed his own animals and is extremely abusive was ridiculous

[@kolbykauffman4180]

In October, I met two older women at my restaurant; sweet as can be. I was wondering why they came to the ocean in the late fall. They recently moved there and, after some conversation, they clued me in that they were involved with the creation of The Keepers. A documentary about a conspiracy that covered up missing children and nun Sister Kathy's murder. One woman was the forensic scientist who funded the project, a former pupil, and the other woman was ONE OF THE CHILDREN THAT GOT AWAY. They put blood, sweat, and tears into the documentary to bring these men of the cloth to justice, got ran out of Baltimore, and occasionally get harassed online or via mail. And still...after all that...Netflix cut out a vast amount of the proper evidence and interview. That is what I walked away with that day. Lovely women, those two.

[@Champigne]

The Keepers is a great documentary.

[@brainimpediment]

i am on my way to Netflix headquarters and i will kill mr netflix watch him make a documentary on THAT huh

[@mew2wand447]

Damn

[@dawnandeve]

I really like the documentary "God Knows Where I Am" it's about specifically this one woman with rapidly developing I think schizophrenia and she constantly goes missing and one day she's missing for a long time and is presumed to be dead when she was actually living alone in this abandoned/second home off the side of a highway where she lived for months until she ultimately starved to death. What's most fascinating is its social commentary on the mental health system in America and that this woman wrote every day in these journals that she found in the attic so you know her day by day thought process. It's really sad though, so don't watch if you aren't feeling in a great mood. It's on Netflix. I haven't watched "The Case of Gabriel Hernandez" yet, but I also heard that it's a good documentary to watch about the social commentary of at least the LA County social service system and how often they fail to help save many young kids. Again, a really sad one.

[@Br1ttany1992]

Love your profile pic! I'm also a Slytherin

[@Rose-ef2cm]

Oh God two of the topics that hit the absolute hardest are when systems fail to help abused children and those struggling with mental illness. Definitely adding those documentaries to my list of things I need to watch when I need to cry lol

[@BigDickNate2460]

holy shit ive seen that documentary it was absolutely insane it made me so angry

[@minnie7453]

These sound so interesting but I’m heartbroken just reading your summary so it’s the kind of thing I really shouldn’t watch. So sad.

[@itspricila]

Al ive watched both and i 100% recommend the hernandez on really hit me hard

[@pssurvivor]

I found the documentary's equation of carol and joe troubling. you cannot just send tigers and lions born in captivity into the wild, it's sad but they need to be 'looked after', so i think big cat rescue is doing a great job. as far as volunteering is concerned ofc it's free!

[@gregoryambres1897]

"Three Identical Strangers" is indeed a most fascinating, albeit quite disturbing and sad, story.

[@Ultamami]

Why did you put a comma between sad and story?? It's unnecessary and incorrect.

[@nuyel]

@@Ultamami I I'm not mistaken, it's because the phrase "albeit quite disturbing an sad" is not essential and could be left out and the sentence would still make sense. It's grammatically correct.

[@Ultamami]

@@nuyel NO, it is not correct.

[@Yebbapea]

@@Ultamami its a youtube comment stfu

[@locatedonearth8695]

@@Ultamami It is actually grammatically correct. You are wrong.

[@ChrisGrump]

As an archaeologist, I can wholeheartedly agree to your statements concerning documentaries. They are infuriating sometimes, spouting nonsense and unproven stuff as gospel.

[@davidmaxwell4696]

It did always strike me as weird that Carole is getting all the hate, when she's clearly the only that actually cares about that cats, isn't abusing her cats or the people who work at her sanctuary, isn't seducing barely legal teenagers, isn't running a sex cult, etc. I wasn't aware of how much the documentary straight up lied or stretched the truth about her, though I did notice odd choices they made like presenting her as exploiting and brainwashing her volunteers. Just more and more it seems she got painted as villain by the documentary in order to make Joe seem more heroic or whatever in comparison

[@TheIdealisticCynic]

David Maxwell short answer: misogyny.

[@courtneyjohnsonhaber4591]

@@TheIdealisticCynic Yup. The more I learned about Carole, the more I realized the documentary went out of its way to paint her in a bad light.

[@darkdiddler1439]

@@TheIdealisticCynic, gotta be it

[@logannnn]

she totally killed her husband though

[@edwells8963]

@@TheIdealisticCynic I don't think Carole was the only one painted in that light. It makes Doc, Joe and Carole look equally fucking mental in my honest opinion. But then the way it's presented makes her look like a hypocrite: protesting the commercial use of cats for the benefits of visitors when that seemed to be the purpose of her sanctuary. Honestly I don't think any of us can know the complete truth about anything in that series through any kind of second hand source.

[@TheMonicaAlison]

I will say, I finished Tiger King not on the Free Joe Exotic train but on the Arrest Everyone Else Because They're All God-Awful Criminals train.

[@wright96d]

There's not a single good person in that doc. Including Joe.

[@prestonrasmussen4083]

I agree, I didn’t have the same complaints about it because I thought almost all of them were awful and Joe and Doc Antle were by far the worst. Carole Baskin isn’t the most charismatic person but she is clearly not the same as the others.

[@Frosting1000]

yeah, i mean as manipulative as this doc was I still don't get how people come away thinking we should be on Joe's side at all

[@fury5500]

Carole is probably innocent.

[@TacticusPrime]

Antle is clearly the worst.

[@YYui420]

Starting with a documentary called “The Imposter” has made this video infinitely sillier in the age of amogus

[@user-hq2jl6sm1n]

2020: what an insightful video 2021: 𝑨𝑴𝑶𝑮𝑼𝑺

[@jvnxiie2441]

Hehe sussy imposter go brrrrr

[@cubirk]

This is a little sussy

[@UNowen255]

when the imposter is sus! :flushed:

[@baileymoore7779]

What is amogus?

[@recoveringintrovert717]

Man, I'm so happy someone finally exposed this documentary for what it is. No one should be celebrating Jo Exotic

[@KaraIsabella]

Thank you. There was a whole movement of commentary saying, "Why didn't we hate Joe Exotic as much as Carole Baskin? It's sexism!" Well, yes. We love to be sexist as a society. But the reason we mostly hated her is because THE DOCUMENTARY FRAMED IT THAT WAY. Editing, directing, and music can all manipulate us into a certain viewpoint. Documentaries are not 100% truth.

[@lukeinvictus]

Also because who we like/dislike has little to do with how good of a person they are. Usually.

[@patriciaw636]

People hated carole??? I thought she was kinda the hero of the story they were telling. They just played bad music and picked the worst parts of her to show but she was still better than him

[@cordcd7]

Eff that noise, I hate the lot of em, except for a couple of the workers; some of whom seemed genuine in their intentions. Even if they weren't after all.

[@gabrielle.j]

They’re all hateable horrible people. Carole was especially hateable because she was a complete hypocrite...and she killed her husband. I really wish Doc Antle would get more backlash with his manipulative sex cult

[@csodapaci]

@@gabrielle.j There's no proof that she killed him.

[@sunnaerica]

A postive, uplifting documentary: "Twinsters." Two twin girls who are mistakenly adopted into different families in different countries (and aren't aware that they are twins) find each other online.

[@MRuby-qb9bd]

I love that one!!!

[@krybling]

maybe not your cup of tea but i thought you meant ''madness in the fast lane'' same story. but when they first time see each other they immediately turns suicidal by running out on a highway together

[@marredcheese]

same basic premise as the one he mentioned, but with twins instead of triplets

[@queenofwolves6077]

Exit Through the Gift Shop will probably forever remain my favorite documentary for this reason. It lies in the manner that every other documentary does, but it doesn't pretend to be self-important in the way many others do.

[@StormX6]

I love that documentary. It’s pretty honest and avoids being pretentious. If anything, Banksy and the other street artists kind of make light of the street art movement, admitting they weren’t trying to be too serious and that now street art is becoming over-saturated

[@SchizoMelody]

Exactly. My wife gets mad at me because I always point out how these "documentaries" are deliberately biased. It's a shame because it doesn't have to be that way.

[@GypsyxDarling]

Well, some of them do have to. It's okay for documentaries to have a point of view - what many would call "bias." Like, if Tiger King had focused more on the animal abuse and edited it to show the horrors of it, that would have been biased. Just biased in favor of treating animals well. The issue comes in obfuscation, misinformation, and presenting the story in a way that dissuades critical thinking.

[@souljastation5463]

This is more like a reality show rather than a documentary though.

[@kaiyodei]

did you watch "beyond the cove"?

[@southphillyspud31]

She killed her husband

[@krisshishymishy]

Trailer Park Boys is the only accurate documentary in history.

[@MosesReyna]

ArmchairWarrior i’m sorry to hear that

[@iluvskylines1234]

@ArmchairWarrior your mom sounded like an awesome woman

[@Freqv]

Yes

[@EdenNeedsAYoutubeHandle]

am canadian, can confirm

[@AmericanGadfly]

Accurate

[@JennyLovell]

I also don't like the way Carole, the only woman who was a major player, was the one we all chose to demonize and hate while almost ever other major character was being manipulative, predatory and out right breaking the law continually. Bhagavan groomed teenage girls in his little ego cult. Joe traded meth for relationships with otherwise uninterested young men. Why are we speculating about Carole and her supposed evils? Super glad you made this video, thanks for putting in words some frustrations I had.

[@Galakakk]

Jenny Lovell honestly if she did kill her husband then good for her.

[@chloedsmith]

@ArmchairWarrior I don't know anyone who doesn't hate *everyone* on that show. They all suck to varying degrees. However I have softened to Carole a bit since the show ended, after her reaction to being tricked into an interview. She is after all the most "normal" person from that show, but you'd have to be an idiot to think she had absolutely nothing to do with her husband's death/disappearance.

[@viktoriap6736]

carole baskin killed her husband wacked em won't convince me it didn't happen

[@MrCoolbanna]

Omg he didnt groom teenage girls those were his family and familys wifes. Most of his staff aren't girls they just showed it that way to deceive you. When they were wearing sexy costumes documentary forgot to mention it was Halloween.

[@minimantaray]

@ArmchairWarrior "obviously" this whole video is about how documentaries lie to you.. tiger king is clearly very biased. they straight up cut out footage of joe being aggressively racist bc it wasn't "relevant" but then worked weirdly hard to make you think carole was more sinister than she may or may not be, including some manipulative editing. maybe she's the devil - idk, but let's not base our opinion off of that shitty fucking excuse for a documentary huh?

[@RobertJW]

The reason Spurlock's results were never replicated isn't simply because he was eating more than he said he was. They've also never been replicated because he was also an *actively drinking alcoholic* at the time.

[@bloopahVIII]

new on the mcdonalds menu: the mcbooze with 40% pure fat added for the perfect flavor

[@eatatjoes6751]

...oh, now that's rich.

[@aikhis]

is this a 24 minute documentary, about how documentaries lie to you......

[@danield.8233]

DUN DUN DUUUUUN

[@Hannahgs]

Goddim

[@veenoir1991]

Its a video essay

[@NoConsistency]

@@veenoir1991 Well all video essays tell the truth.

[@veenoir1991]

@@NoConsistency I never said a video essay couldnt lie. I simply just pointed out its not a documentary about documentaries so the joke is void. But thanks for trying 😘

[@entothechesnautknight1762]

Fun fact: I was able to get my high school health class teacher to put on fat head rather then supersize me by showing him all the evidence against it. He got in trouble with the board because of this.

[@RiderlessHarp47.]

What is fat head? Why would you be surprised by evidence against it, and why would your teacher get in trouble for it?

[@zacharygustafson8714]

@@RiderlessHarp47. Fat head is basically a rebuttal film towards supersize me, which proved that fast food isn't inherently unhealthy when eaten in the correct amount with proper exercise.

[@Galaxia53]

When you get in trouble for not wanting to scare kids into submission through propaganda.

[@SailorMaxie]

Some people can’t handle the truth.

[@lightning_elextra]

I wish I could've gotten mine to do this. I was forced to watch Supersize Me 5 times between 6th grade and 9th grade because the school boards want to push that crap.

[@PforPanthera]

It's honestly really sad how much hate Carole Baskin is getting when she's the only one involved actually trying to help big cats. She's kinda weird and a little annoying but like not all that bad, I mean hell the girl's been through a lot. There's totally some shit she's done that actually seem kinda sketch but that's not what anyone seems to be talking about. If you look at actual pictures of the enclosures at BCR instead of what's shown in the docuseries they look really nice. There's this shit tier take a lot of people are spreading around that she doesn't actually care about big cats because she should have taken all the tigers Joe had as a settlement for the lawsuit instead of money, even though that would have been illegal since you can't legally buy and sell tigers. Also, BCR doesn't have the capacity for 200 tigers.

[@TheIdealisticCynic]

PforPanthera that’s the part that drove me crazy “the cats are in cages too!” Yeah, but have you looked outside the small series to see what those cages actually look like? Cause they are pretty lush.

[@PforPanthera]

@Horrible Cunt There's not really any evidence that she killed her husband. The dude was sketchy, he did business with a cartel, it's entirely likely he was killed by someone else. As far as I can tell the most she did was change the will.

[@courtneyjohnsonhaber4591]

@@PforPanthera Yeah and the show glosses over how her husband's secretary was embezzling him and therefore had a motive to paint her as sketchy. Changing the will to include disappearance makes sense when you learn her husband was involved in skethy ass drug deals and flying his plane unlicensed

[@tomfrascina5846]

Completely agree, it's also a little scary how many people refuse to see how horrible Joe Exotic is, just because, as far as I can see, he's charismatic

[@joshualueders9566]

ok sure, but she literally did the oj if i did it when talking about the meat grinder

[@ssharkbait]

One documentary I really enjoyed was The Wolfpack. It’s about these brothers who’s father kept them isolated from the world in their little apartment and how the boys used their love for movies to escape. I’m sure you’ve seen Grey Gardens but for anyone who hasn’t it’s a strange and sad tale about a mother and her daughter who fell from their place amongst the rich and now live in as recluses in a depilated home. It’s mostly known for the subjects seeming to be unaware of their reality and still stuck in time when they were young and brushing shoulders with politicians and celebrities.

[@Erin-io3fv]

Louis Theroux visits Joe Exotic in "America's Most Dangerous Pets" and covers the animal abuse way more comprehensively - despite not having 5 hours to do it.

[@jaybee4118]

Erin yeah, I watched that when it was on British tv (2011 I think) so I feel like I went in more primed knowing more about the horrible things he can do. I was quite surprised when the animal abuse was sort of glossed over and the way he was being portrayed and the anti-hero.

[@hollygreen7300]

Louis Theroux is such a good documentarian, he did a really good one on the westboro baptist church which is worth checking out if you have access to Iplayer

[@spiritualanarchist8162]

. Instead of this being a eye opener about sociopathic conmen, it became some 'Merica First anti-hero ' versus 'P.C bitch killed her husband '

[@rc59191]

Louis is also self righteous and overrated

[@Ausomedays]

He came off like a prat. Now he’s kissing Joe Exotic’s butt so spare us.

[@ozzeey9069]

The thing I really hate about tiger king (on top of all the things he talked about) was how there really was *no point* to the entire thing. So many documentaries are very focused, because when they’re focused, it’s easy to absorb the information that’s being presented, but with tiger king, it just felt like the editors were like “oh here’s some wacky stuff that happened over the last couple years”. Like, is the documentary about the corruption within these zoos? Or did Carol kill her husband? Or is it about these private animal collections vs. animal rights groups? Or is it just following the life of an insane man? It just makes no sense. (Also, i hated that there were claims like “oh carol’s zoo sucks and she basically abuses animals” but wouldn’t say anything to back up their claim or give Carol the chance to explain why it was like that)

[@Josh-ur6dx]

The purpose was to sell it as a "documentary" but only to cover up the fact that it was just another trash reality TV show pushing terrible people who are only good at bringing in ratings because of their drama and stupidity. I thought it was a mockumentary at first and once I found out it was real I couldn't watch it anymore.

[@CrazyBear65]

@@Josh-ur6dx "Real" is a relative term. "Reality" tv is all scripted Hollywoo bullshit. Nothing "real" about it at all. While Bear Gryllis is running thru the wilderness there's a whole fuckin crew running with him. All bullshit.

[@fatgirlballet]

It seemed like a senior's final project for a film class.

[@AnaMaria-wt3ix]

@@CrazyBear65 and he's not even really in the 'wild' there's usually a hotel or lodge nearby where he and the crew sleep and eat and stuff. If someone has the money they could book a vacation to any hotel close to a desert or rain forest or whatever, take a tour in that desert or rain forest, and do the same thing as Bear Grylls. Although the locals will probably think they're insane of they willingly drink elephant poop water.

[@demonninetaledfox]

I've seen so many people hurt and just general misinformation spread because of a garbage documentary or docu-series. I love documentaries too but people have had their lives ruined for the sake of an entertaining story and it really genuinely breaks my heart sometimes. I'm glad other people talk about it because people like to see them as just a story about the truth when they are entertainment first and foremost and people will sign up for interviews at times just wanting their stories told only to be portrayed as evil or despicable for the sake of an easier to digest narrative or more entertaining story.

[@PleasantSludge]

I know this came out 8 months ago but I wanted to let you know I watched all three of your documentary recommendations and they were all absolutely phenomenal. I recommend Three Identical Strangers to EVERYONE now. Thank you for introducing me to such great docs!!

[@TylerMelnychuk]

The meat grinder they showed couldn't grind humans either.

[@jwillkens]

That grinder is probably in every grocery store that has a meat department. They're for grinding beef not bodies. They won't handle bone. But the seen was pretty funny.

[@planyrescape]

I've ground up a lot of pork in my day. and you're 100% correct. even those big ole industrial grinders couldn't handle pig bones. they do get through your meat quickly though so it doesn't get warm, gross, and mushy. which is a serious problem with some of the smaller grinders, leading to you having to freeze the pieces.

[@crowredeye8066]

I kept looking for a wood chipper, lol

[@09lealily]

As soon as I watched tiger king, I was shocked at how passively people around me were when watching it, they all hated baskin and all thought joe was a in the right and comedic. I literally saw it the opposite way and saw it as a very one sided ‘documentary’ they victimise joe and criminalise carol with no evidence just opinions. They show joes bad actions and constant death threats towards people he dislikes and how joe looks up to a man who owns a sex cult...but because he’s the focus and they show him upset sometimes people sympathised with him. It’s such a twisted story. I know some people see joes bad side but the main thing that came out of tiger king was ‘carol baskin killed her husband’ and that’s the issue here, I didn’t see anywhere near as much stuff saying he was in the wrong or focusing on the sex cult.

[@rubberlover666]

There’s always Chekhov’s quote that “the role of the artist is to ask the questions, not answer them.” However, Tiger King does neither. It bludgeons you into submission with its WTF-ness and so much info about so many people, it’s impossible to catch everything on a single viewing. I still can’t fathom the people who watched this and thought ANYONE came out looking good? You’ve probably seen it but Deliver Us From Evil about the church sex scandal is great but really tough to sit through. Like the Robert Durst documentary, you have to spend a considerable amount of time with a psychopath.

[@JBravoEcho09]

Yes on Deliver Us From Evil, I just mentioned it up top. It should be required viewing for anyone who thinks the Catholic Church is anywhere close to getting its shit together on its most significant problem.

[@raulruizdevelasco6215]

This was excellent! Hats off. I got into so many feuds with people on the internet by trying to convince them that it was very unlikely for Carol to have killed her husband and that her sanctuary was actually a good place for the animals. The dangers of a documentary manipulating information for entertainment is that they ruin people’s lives. Imagine getting accused from people on the internet to fucking talk show hosts of committing murder. You can be denied service in certain places, you can be harassed. It’s not something to take lightly. It’s not a game of clue. It’s an actual person’s life. The abused animals also ended up being affected because people wanted to boycott Carol’s perfectly decent sanctuary. If documentaries want to take creative liberties for art or entertainment’s sake, they should provide a clear and evident disclaimer.

[@firulamry]

First thing came to my head when i done watching Tiger King “ So Carole Baskin is wrong because she’s want a better protection for the animals? ”

[@stephenortega1065]

nope she's wrong because she runs a place that operates on slave labor and donations that go directly to her. also she should practice what she preaches about people should not own tigers or big cats yet she proceeds to do the same

[@abbf26-_-13]

@@stephenortega1065 Do you know what a volunteer is?

[@jessepinkman5409]

@@abbf26-_-13 don't get him started on how soup kitchens are minting off of slave labour

[@caribphin8542]

@Mariana Frusciante did you actually look into that or did you get that from the series that is very dishonest?

[@monroe7532]

Stephen Ortega volunteering isn’t slave labor

[@colorfulgirls79]

dear zachary: a letter to a son about his father is my all time favorite documentary. it’s a great one to go into blind. jesus camp is awesome as well. the people in that thing are INSANE but the director manages to avoid sensationalizing the story.

[@chazz4118]

Jesus Camp is a great example, from what I remember there's no narrator, just footage, so the viewer makes up their own mind

[@skeletorg]

One of my favorite documentaries is "Dear Zachary: A Letter to a Son about his Father." I believe it is on Prime Video. In many aspects, the documentary is about itself because it follows the film-maker trying to put together a documentary about his murdered friend for said friend's son who wasn't even born by the time he was killed, and the ways the documentary has to change following new heartbreaks. Since it is such a personal story, in which the filmmaker is a "main character," it doesn't feel as much a piece made to shock and awe an audience as it is a genuine expression made BY the people most affected and not just ABOUT them. It is incredibly tragic, but by the end, at least in my case, I felt like the film adequately transformed the feelings of indignity towards the evil portrayed in the film into real admiration and even love for the people who continued to rebuild despite everything.

[@PhantomLightsX]

This

[@DSDaly]

That documentary punched a hole in my chest and ripped my heart out

[@elwyndude]

This doc is an emotional punch to the throat.

[@kierramiller777]

You do need to prepared to cry a lot when watching it

[@gmc5618]

I just watched it on your recommendation and I've not cried so hard in years.

[@ndoggydogable]

Vice's dark side of the ring is one of the best documentary series I've seen. It's about dark backstage moments in professional wrestling.

[@ZergRushJohnny]

Yes, but it's hit or miss with its quality. The Moolah episode really annoyed me. It talked at length about Moolah's alleged, horrifying sexual exploitation of a young woman she trained, including serious interviews with her family, but then Wendy Richter seems to be in kayfabe talking about a storyline, and then it just ends with another random woman she trained essentially saying, "she didn't do that to me and you're bad and full of shit."

[@HaIsKuL]

"Most documentaries aren't journalism" Hell, most journalism isn't even journalism.

[@butter3754]

Are you saying BuzzFeed writers aren't journalists? 😦

[@pauljimerson8218]

Fox News would like to know your location

[@FilmsNerf2]

Most articles or news stories I see nowadays resemble personal blog posts.

[@adrianbaev5277]

@@butter3754 weirdly enough, the pure journalism side of BuzzFeed have had some pretty damn good articles.

[@Mngalahad]

real journalists know they arent hired for doing journalism.

[@mattyfowler2k13]

What quinton is talking about about 'tiger king' is exactly why I wont watch it and personally cant understand why people are raving about it so much.

[@primitiveafrican3356]

you really should watch it.

[@superwooper5210]

As he said in the video, it's good as entertainment but not as a doc.

[@CristalianaIvor]

I liked it because it's entertaining. But I am also capable of understanding that there was bias involved when making tje documentary. I don't think it will be perfect for raising awareness and stuff, but... Does every thing really need to be super woke and perfect all the time? Does it need to be extremely morally good? Sometimes you just like to watch something because it's interesting. Not because it's the enlightenment.

[@raziphaz2219]

@@CristalianaIvor i think the problem is that is morally awful now. You feel empathy with all of the victims if you know the truth

[@Moony1568]

@@primitiveafrican3356 No it’s a piece of shit. Better not watching at all

[@mdg245]

Tiger King Documentary: Carole claims what Joe Exotic does is animal abuse. Me: Would you like to let her elaborate? Tiger King Documentary: *sweats* She uh....thinks taking pictures....with baby tigers....is bad.

[@ResoluteCoyote]

Well it does go over them.

[@mdg245]

@@ResoluteCoyote I've only seen it once and I may have missed something, but I feel like I walked away from it with claims of "it's abuse" without very many specifics. They didn't seem interested in taking her claims seriously so much as framing her a villain.

[@JohnSmith-lk9fv]

That he breeds them just to be used for his petting zoo. He would feed them old disgusting meat. He would kill tigers once they didn’t serve their purpose. He cut a horse just to feed them to the tigers.

[@mdg245]

​@@JohnSmith-lk9fv But those things were never framed as animal abuse and only the breeding thing was brought up by an animal rights activist. Obviously, I don't think viewers are idiots and can see what's presented and judge for themselves, but while they gave Joe Exotic and the other breeders plenty of time to explain themselves, they didn't really present the other side of the argument outside of the phrase "animal abuse". The bias was kinda obvious and it was one of my major gripes with the series.

[@calleinad]

i find it confusing that people ever sided with joe? i sided with carole most of the time even if she made mistakes (dont agree with not paying volunteers ) but she seemed much more reasonable and genuine than joe or jeff or anyone else

[@RubyBlueUwU]

This is relatively minor but I’m so fed up of people deciding Carol must’ve killed her husband bc she doesn’t sob every time she speaks about him, because she can laugh about him and the trauma she went through, bc that’s actually extremely normal. Like it’s been decades...she’s moved past it because that’s what you have to do so it doesn’t destroy you. I lost my dad in very traumatic circumstances, and I joke about it *all the time.* She believed it was a tiger documentary, why would anyone care about her personal trauma in a tiger documentary? It doesn’t matter within that context, she’s not gonna sit and get upset unnecessarily. It’s her trauma, she can deal with it how she wants. I don’t know what happened and neither does anyone, but her language isn’t “proof”

[@812558]

This just in: RubyBlueUwU definitely killed his dad /s

[@oneinfinity]

One of the best documentaries I've ever seen is "The Act of Killing". It's an absolutely gut-wrenching exploration of one of the darkest chapters in Indonesian history that is virtually unknown to the general public outside of that country. What makes it unique is that it doesn't follow the victims of the crimes in question or their families and supporters, but the perpetrators and their attempt to cope with and rationalize the heinous crimes they committed. It's hard to watch at times, but it's absolutely brilliant regardless.

[@kostajovanovic3711]

Try look of silence

[@ninjacreeper1066]

Every P.E. teacher that shows Super Size Me in class is gonna flip their lids when they find out the truth.

[@culwin]

Don't think they really care.

[@PKEin]

To be fair they probably care more about shaming fat kids than the actual factual content

[@karawithgun8148]

@@culwin That's very true. I had to watch the Super Size Me documentary in class and one of the smarter students found the calorie counts to be strange and actually researched the amount of calories in all the food that's eaten during the show. He then added it all up and found that the documentary greatly exaggerated the calorie count and tried to show the teacher who then proceeded to tell the student in question that he was going to grow up to be a fat loser like the guy in the documentary and gave him detention for "trying to misinform the other students" when he was actually trying to do the exact opposite. I wish I had said something but I was a dumb teenager who didn't know anything about any of this at the time and didn't quite believe him myself. Now I feel really bad about not believing him or at least looking into what he was saying.

[@Galvion1980]

@@PKEin Unfortunately, I strongly suspect you're right...

[@angel-gu8co]

*emotionally terrorizes a family* "these guys are weird and must be murderers!!"

[@moss9851]

Every time you said “the imposter” I flinched

[@mrm.acampbell2722]

It’s almost like these documentary makers have their own agenda,

[@xxaidanxxsniperz6404]

Maybe that is the point of a documentary...

[@807D14M0ND5]

@@xxaidanxxsniperz6404 No. I don't think that's it.

[@alexhiggins5911]

Usually the agenda is to make real life fit a standard story-telling narrative even if it doesn’t because audiences like it and it makes money.

[@a.n.l.aantineoliberalismas4504]

@@alexhiggins5911 yes but actually no but actually yes

[@gonelucid6270]

The worst ones are the environmentalist documentaries. Gasland... An inconvenient truth... I was surprised how balanced tiger king show was.... You expect Hollywood to be heavy liberal but tiger king kindve bashed both sides

[@NachoBearYeah]

Three documentary recommendations available on Netflix: -American Factory: The story about a factory that closed in the 2008 crisis, and reopened under Chinese management. Shows how workers' lives got worse after the crisis, how they are paid a fraction of what they were paid before, how they have way less security measures, about how management practically brainwashes their employees and tries to pit Chinese workers against their "lazy" American ones. Really good, shows how workers have to organize on their own and regardless of nationality. -The Vietnam War by Ken Burns: Long and quite thorough documentary on the Vietnam war. I may not agree with many points it tries to make, but gives you more than enough information to draw your own conclusions. Doesn't have any problem showing the worse things about the war. -The Square: Documentary about the huge demonstrations in the Tahir Square in Egypt during the Arab Spring, that brought the fall of the regime. Shows the inspiring strenght of the spontaneous uprising of the working people, but also how its lack of organization limits it. Amazing documentary about one of the most significant social processes of the last decade.

[@xmasinpacific]

The Ken Burns documentaries on Baseball and the Civil War are spectacular

[@DMCpawn]

American Factory is a brilliant watch! My favorite part was how it showed how the American and Chinese workers bonded, and how management tries to make an us v. them narrative to boost creativity at the expense of morale

[@smoothie5671]

if you haven’t seen it, i highly recommend the doc “dear zachary: a letter to a son about his father”. i won’t spoil anything, but after watching it i felt like i had been physically punched in the gut.

[@lonelyrooster]

That documentary broke my heart.

[@1OSfan17]

That's a rough one

[@cptsaturn8622]

Real sad

[@devote]

"On March 23, 2010, Bill C-464 (also known as "Zachary's Bill") was introduced by MP Scott Andrews of Avalon to the Parliament of Canada.[21] Andrews was moved to create the bill after attending a screening of the film.[9] The goal of Zachary's Bill was to protect children and force "judicial decision makers" to keep the safety of children in mind during bail hearings and in custody disputes, particularly when a child is in the custody of someone who has been charged with a "serious crime".[22] Seven years after Zachary's death, and over two years after the film was released, "Zachary's Bill" was signed into law" I live in Canada and I had no idea.

[@mar7268]

I’ve heard so many people talk about that documentary and they say the same thing that it’s very emotional and different than anything they have ever seen

[@boyroy4u]

A little late but probably my favourite documentary series is The Keepers on Netflix. Its super dramatic but it was really well researched and the crew who did it has really cool editing and interview methods

[@heeeyyy2947]

never forget that while most people's general perceptions of documentaries are that they're presented "objectively" (i.e. because they're nonfiction): a director *ALWAYS* has influence over the story being told -- from how and when information is presented to who is interviewed to the questions asked to when the story begins and ends PS~ Quinton -- this may be one of my favorite videos from you yet, keep up the great work man!

[@starbit0]

i recently watched a documentary called "don't think i've forgotten: cambodia's lost rock and roll" which is about the history of rock music in cambodia during the 60s and 70s-- the time of the vietnam war as well as cambodia's own history and the khmer rouge. it's a really good documentary, currently free to watch on tubi!

[@DirtyMike124x]

Thank you for the recommendation :) It sounds very interesting. Do you know when it was released?

[@blakemiller2613]

Surprised you didn't talk about American Vandal which talks about how this style of sensationalized documentary can lead to real negative effects for the people shown in that documentary.

[@apologist.mp3]

Blake Miller there’s a great Sarah Z video about it!

[@LadyTylerBioRodriguez]

American Vandal was a brilliant takedown of stuff like Serial. I adore it.

[@kiyavi]

I miss American Vandal so much.

[@LadyTylerBioRodriguez]

@@kiyavi It was taken from us far too soon.

[@Jaros]

Man, I did not expect to feel that deeply about the ball hair show

[@logannnn]

0:23 GET OUT OF MY FUCKING HEAD I CAN'T FUCKING TAKE IT I CAN'T FUCKING TAKE IT I CAN'T FUKCING TAKE IT I CANT FUCKIN TAKE IT

[@QuintonReviews]

pretty sus comment right here

[@willnovak4173]

When the documentary is sus...

[@Meladjusted]

Thank you for this piece! I was so appalled to find that Big Cat Rescue was taking heat because of this silly documentary when BCR has a stellar reputation in the Tampa Bay area and beyond for being completely against keeping big cats as pets or show pieces. They are not a type of zoo or entertainment venue. The first time I went was for extra credit in my Ecology class with my teacher (who was a marine biologist and volunteer at a marine life sanctuary) and I honestly did not even think it was open to the public except for teaching opportunities; that's how low-key and not about entertainment it is. You could barely find the entrance... They also do not let visitors just wander. They only allow visitation through a guided tour of 20 people or less and you're told to be quiet so as not to upset the animals. None of the cats ever seemed distressed or exhibited signs of stress or boredom and BCR are completely transparent on their site and social media. Caretakers do NOT play or otherwise interact with the cats. There are vets on staff and a full service clinic on site. They can and do perform surgeries and dental on site. The cats receive different types of stimulation regularly. They absolutely do not breed their cats. I have no idea what they did decades ago, but they definitely have not bred cats for over 20 years at this point. 🤷🏼‍♀️ They have been staunchly, publicly against such practices for at least that long, the first time I visited being in 2000/2001. BCR also lobbies to change laws surrounding owning big cats as pets and using them for entertainment. I can't imagine why all these shitty people who own big cats as pets and entertainment might want to discredit them...🙄 Unfortunately, it seems like Netflix is really big on producing documentaries that are super irresponsible with the truth.

[@cordcd7]

I liked the fact that the volunteers actually had to put real time in before they were able to take on more responsibility. On the job training, especially with something like wild animals is crucial for the safety of both the volunteers/staff and the animals. I thought there was nothing wrong with her system but the doc definitely portrayed it like she was some evil work tyrant, forcing her staff to labor under unsafe and dire conditions.

[@chteretreeart]

Thank you I have also been a supporter of them for a while, wether or not carole is a nice person really does not matter or change how well the sanctuary is run. I was really disappointed at the hate comments appearing on videos about vet care or other things for the big cats. BCR has done amazing work and have cared for and released multiple big cats back into the wild and the ones that can not be released seem well taken care of, also it seems like there are a ton of people who don't understand what volunteering is smh.

[@helianthe3457]

Thank you for writing this! One thing that disturbed me is the claim that the volunteers would work an insane amount of hours for free. I get that being a volunteer means you don't get a salary, but the numbers of hours cited were very high. So I was wondering: is it true?

[@Hannahgs]

I remember listening to a podcast about how exotic that actually sought out truth to tell and it made me look into BCR and i never saw anything bad about it that wasn’t “ah they have volunteers and their feeding cages are small”

[@EskimoCreamKing]

If they have animals on display and people pay to see them, doesn't that make them a zoo?

[@QuintonReviews]

In response to the Tiger King and the story Joe Exotic, Quinton discusses the faults that can come with the medium of documentaries. Join us today: you can help invent a mystery. Go to BuyRaycon.com/quinton for 15% off your order! Brought to you by Raycon My Twitter ➱ twitter.com/Q_Review My Patreon ➱ www.patreon.com/QReview

[@Ma_ksi]

Hi gamers

[@AssortedJade]

Another great video, thanks for the interesting content :)

[@DilgFLIX]

Batman and bill is a great documentary for any comic book fan.

[@anxdmeme4208]

Writing a comment in third person is weird

[@goodforyou3000]

I find it ironic, especially when you find out that unsolved mysteries is produced same people that produced by Penn and Teller's bullshit.

[@twdgs3]

not to mention how Tiger King consistently misgendered the "lesbian," Saff, who is actually a transgender man who has identified as such since childhood, so it isnt just something they couldve missed.

[@salvatoredali4384]

@Content Corrector "i believe in biology" Gonna have to doubt that you really do, friend.

[@kthemaster1999]

@Content Corrector I think you're the one that doesn't care

[@rinrinrinrinrinrinrinrinrin]

@Мармеладов ТВ and that matters why? He’s a dude now

[@rinrinrinrinrinrinrinrinrin]

@Мармеладов ТВ because he’s a guy. They identify as a man. And if basic human decency and respect is virtue signaling then I’ll virtue signal all I want.

[@nayr642]

@@rinrinrinrinrinrinrinrinrin saying you're a guy doesn't make you a guy you nit. And it's not basic decency to reassure people that they are what they aren't. If I identify as a tiger it doesn't make me a tiger.

[@melissajordan8679]

This was really interesting, thank you! I've been curious about the Baskin situation since only one of the episodes was devoted to her story, and it was clear a lot of corners were being cut, and other things were being given almost ridiculous significance.

[@Melodraca]

For documentary recommendations, "Reel Injun" by Cree filmmaker Neil Diamond is a pretty good one from what I remember. It's about the portrayal of indigenous north americans throughout cinema history and it's very interesting. The whole thing is actually on youtube for free!

[@omegailijevich4005]

I was also surprised to see the manipulative and dangerous figures of Joe Exotic and Doc Antle be branded in a more heroic light than Carole Baskin, so I’m glad you articulated the way Documetary’s perspective can affect its reception in this way!! I loved Three Identical Strangers and would recommend Dear Zachary (2008) as another very sad doc that you should see blind, and Tower (2016) and Exit through the Gift Shop (2010) as great genre-bending pieces.

[@LadyTylerBioRodriguez]

Oh god, Tower was made four years ago? Its aged like a depressing wine.

[@JohnSmith-lk9fv]

How so? They talked about how doc runs a sex cult and how joe manipulated people with drugs, but they also point out how they both euthanize animals once they don’t serve their purpose. I don’t thin there was any worse way they could have been portrayed.

[@skeetxeeter6893]

John Smith yet people are calling for Joe’s release and demonizing Carole Baskin. Clearly there is some disconnect.

[@omegailijevich4005]

John Smith they definitely pointed it out! I just thought Carol was much more villainized and discussed harshly in online conversations ABOUT the show, that’s all (probably because of the running Joe vs. Carole plotline)

[@commentwriter1897]

I def feel like Joe and Doc's horrible actions were completely handwaved away. Like "Yeah, that happened. It's bad. But Carole Baskin though...." I mean Carole isn't an angel I'm sure, but it takes some pretty far leaps of logic to claim that she's in any way comparable to how awful Joe and Doc are. I also feel like the response to the documentary is in part fueled by misogyny. Like you get people excusing Joe's behaviour as 'wacky antics' while demonising Carole for much less.

[@lakehouserecordz9681]

we just gonna ignore how nice Quintons nails look

[@kaitie648]

no we will not 💕

[@krlosz1996]

@your face reminds me when I stepped on a burrito 3 yeah and?

[@famouamos9410]

Astaroth Belial Agraz nothing. Just gay

[@uwu-nr9mh]

I don’t love the color tbh

[@maricampari3970]

It really made me wonder what pronouns to use.

[@SageIdle]

Not to send you down a rabbit hole or anything but I wanted to suggest the documentary Resurrect Dead: The Mystery of the Toynbee Tiles. I do this partly because I haven't seen anyone else mention it yet, partly because it's one of my favorite documentaries of all time, and partly because the history and other works of the filmmaker are worthy of an entire documentary all on their own. Love the work!

[@bigfatweevil]

tiger king pretty blatantly misrepresents big cat rescue as being as bad/worse than joe's zoo, when the reality is that the shots you see of the enclosures are a small section visible to the public, whereas there are large open and wooded spaces away from people. also, apparently the shots of people streaming into the sanctuary were from an annual fundraising event where people can free roam the property, and its otherwise closed to the public outside of private tours. carole baskin is not someone i agree entirely with in terms of animal welfare (particularly her association with peta), but it was pretty upsetting to learn i had basically been lied to the whole time, lol.

[@lennydotdotdot5580]

The best part about the lie about the size of the enclosures is that they have a youtube channel where they post hundreds of videos of their cats...you can see in those videos that the enclosures are much larger and are segmented so the cats can be cordoned off temporarily. The clip used in the documentary was of Carole standing in front of a dog-crate sized segment where they feed the cats...which is so that they can move the cats to give them medical attention. Like there's probably better ways to do it (ex, positive reinforcement training seen in some bringing the zoo to you videos from Cincinatti/Dallas Zoo) but she's not comparable to Joe? She didn't spend years threatening bodily harm against a competitor for example.

[@bigfatweevil]

@@lennydotdotdot5580 yeah i found it really weird how they represented feeding cages as a bad thing. its also funny that it makes a big deal over how areas of the park are overgrown, like.....theyre animals?? if anything i think theyd enjoy that, and since the public rarely visits there isnt much reason to spend time on purely aesthetic upkeep my actual biggest problem with carole outside of her ties with peta are probably that she couldnt get accreditation with the AZA due to not having anyone actually trained to work with animals and insufficient vet staff, which seems to be a consistent issue with sanctuaries lol. this was a while ago however so its possible theyve since updated their staff and practices (i hope)

[@lennydotdotdot5580]

@@bigfatweevil Yeah not having enough vet staff and not having keepers with licensure is definitely a problem!

[@duffman18]

Yeah a worrying number of people seem to actually genuinely hate Carol Baskin after watching that, not just saying it as a joke. Netflix documentaries all are like this. They go from episode to episode making you wonder who the real bad guy is and who was lying and who wasn't, so one episode you'll side with one person and the next episode you'll be completely flipped and start supporting the other guy, and then the next episode it flips back again. But in the absence of bad guys on both sides, they have to invent one, and so they make it seem like Carol Baskin is this husband murdering, animal abusing freak. I wouldn't be surprised if she's started getting even more death threats since the documentary, knowing how dumb people can be.

[@TheEmmaHouli]

​@@duffman18 Spoiler alter - she did. She once again unable to bike between her house and the BCR due to people attacking/harassing/intimidating her on route. Imagine that, as a woman, you are FINALLY believed that a man intends to cause you REAL harm. You FINALLY get to have him behind bars. Then the nightmare starts all over again cos you were the villain in a reality TV show!