How Does Affiliative Compare To Pragmatic? | CS Joseph

[@RambleMaven]

If you want to jump straight into the lecture it starts at 10:50

[@ashuranero5721]

Thank you

[@DrenCross]

This is what we need for all of them 😂

[@cross-eyedmary6619]

@@DrenCross ENTPs make you listen to several minutes of rambling, but won't listen to you ramble for more than 20 seconds. lol

[@bafbaas1210]

I know I'm affiliative. Never cared really about the stuff I've done, at least not like I care about my personal relationships. I like making art and I always try to improve but it's never going to be my life's delight. Making a good friend or having someone say they like you is what I'll remember. So I know for sure I'm affiliative (Everyone here proudly announces their pragmatism, so this is for us affiliatives).

[@Ruu555]

Wow, it's the total opposite for me even though I do care about others close to me but I am mostly focused on what I can do as an individual, my goals and how I contribute to society etc like 99% of the time.

[@Love_her_so_much]

Huhf have became so pragmatic most of my life.

[@AlexArrick]

I was really looking forward to this being a live Ouija board video, but instead I got mad knowledge.

[@CSJoseph]

Thanks bro.

[@Grivius1014]

Am I allowed to say that these lectures are the dopest? ;D Thanks, Chase!

[@danielfisher898]

Pedro Marcano No you’re not allowed.

[@WalliFrog]

I'm just imagining that episode of avatar the last airbender where katara and toph fight about... well toph being too pragmatic and katara being too affiliative, the passive aggression versus the stubbornness LOL

[@CSJoseph]

Dope ass comment

[@WalliFrog]

@@CSJoseph thank you ^^ wanna say too your lectures are awesome! they're helping me and people around me because of it a lot.

[@WalliFrog]

Pretty sure the episode is called the chase btw, for anyone who wants to know!

[@WalliFrog]

@@dasein9980 Iroh. We love uncle Iroh haha. But also idk how to put it, the way they chose to put together some of those visuals with the writing and how they emphasise all the lessons and meaning. There were just some magical scenes. That's a hard question lol

[@sirbradfordofhousejones]

“Easier to ask for forgiveness than permission” is how that phrase goes. And as a pragmatic myself, I use that phrase all the time 😆

[@madmystic6529]

I love how balance manifests in all things. The yin-yang of this particular example? INTP: the pragmatic doormat & ENFP: the self-serving affiliate. Thanks for the info you’ve made available, CSJ. It’s been beyond illuminating.

[@vivekanandgorle3770]

I am infp and now, I understand why people accuse me of being shy and actually I am affiliative

[@victoriamccrary50]

What you said about not liking roles forced onto you, that hit man. I remember growing up I didn't have to worry about what I wore or how much effort I needed to put into my appearance. Then I became a teen and my mom was suddenly making me wear different clothes that weren't as comfy as the ones I used to wear and me shave and fix my hair super nice. She was teaching me what a woman is supposed to look like. I hated it. But, over time I learned how to compromise/work around it. Lol, I just wear comfy, but decent looking clothes now, and reserve shaving for when that body part is showing (for swimming and maybe hot weather). Being an adult gave me so much more freedom! Great video Chase, keep up the awesome job of spreading the truth!

[@BrewerArts]

I am still new to this process, but I have to say that the quality of information in these videos is outstanding. I am inspired by what this knowledge could do for the world if it was adopted. So many misunderstandings would be avoided. I am genuinely grateful that you are willing to produce this.

[@CSJoseph]

I hope to change the world, thank you!

[@mehdihassankhanloo5297]

@@CSJoseph Hopefully…

[@guernica5413]

This dichotomy definitely explains why, despite both having high Ni, NTJ's are seeing as more goal driven than NFJ's.

[@danielfisher898]

I’m an intp, and the permission thing usually goes like this. I decide what I think the right thing is, usually to improve the conceptual mechanisms of the task in some way. Then, I try to persuade the leader, assuming I can make suggestions and they will listen, or they aren’t otherwise being a jerk. If they are then I won’t try to improve the situation in the first place, because it doesn’t matter anyway, my thoughts would be wasted on it. If the leader disagrees with my suggestion, I get them to explain why, and if I don’t agree, then I keep trying. If they don’t change their reasons even after I’ve explained their invalidity, then they’re sorted into the not listening category. If it turns out I’m wrong, then the only thing that really happened is I asked a very deep question. If they do agree and make the change, whether or not that’s after several rounds of debate, then I’ve preformed my intp role

[@Love_her_so_much]

That's me too.

[@FrenchCelt]

I'm so pragmatic. If you're in my way, I'll either find a way around you or bulldoze through you to reach my goal. I hated group projects in school because I hate leaving my fate in the hands of others. When possible, I try to establish my bona fides right off the bat and take leadership so I can make sure the project gets done on my terms. I'm absolutely of the mindset that if I want something done right, I should do it myself (assuming I know what I'm doing). I'm always taking the initiative at work to get things done the way I see fit, then explaining myself afterward. If it worked, it's a fait accompli. If it didn't work, I'll offer a mea culpa and learn from the mistake.

[@naturalinstinct4950]

I can relate this so well. are you also an ENTJ?

[@FrenchCelt]

@@naturalinstinct4950 INTJ

[@naturalinstinct4950]

@@FrenchCelt interesting. that was my first speculation. maybe I should have more trust on my Ni parent.

[@edennis8578]

Yes, on everything. I'm an INTJ and I'm like that on every point.

[@nehadjm]

THEY ARE! They are Awesome lectures to watch. Thank you for all the passion you put in them!

[@7dogguy]

I didnt need the 10 minute introduction lmao. Thank you for making these though I appreciate it.

[@jessicafrancoeur9655]

I can't pick wich one suits me best. And it's not only based on the fact that I tend to fight my own nature and challenge myself, but also in my primary response in social interaction. I am both heavily Pragmatic and Affiliative. Every example raised in the video are 50/50 for me. I need to dig more into that.

[@maja2393]

Mina Weiß I have the same problem. On one side I usually don’t want to feel others are left out, so therefor most of the time, use a more democratic way of group think. But I also rarely trust other people’s judgement nor do I always feel heard, so therefor also sometimes end up completely ignoring others and instead taking the initiative.

[@elisabethw9189]

Dopest personality guru, loving your performance from the deck lol :) How to deal with an affiliative ego and a pragmatic subconscious pulling in opposite directions?

[@CSJoseph]

Just remember the go is primary thus it trumps the subconscious. Everyone is pulled in opposite directions, that is what the subconscious is for.

[@dr.hebagadallahclinicalpha9871]

It is strange , when most NTs or STs think they are smarter than all feelers, by virtue of having T as a 1st or 2nd function in their function stack. As they ignore that : how and what You feed your mind and how you process all of this determine the out put. and just having a higher T doesn't mean it is a correct T . So I agree with you , not all intellectuals are more rational than all feelers. Some are . Some are not.

[@karismoffat1968]

Great comment!!

[@Love_her_so_much]

Definitely. Intp. As an intp, i feel i am most incorrect but logical one.

[@mariamattya8545]

Had a girl in our department trying to make a guy feel bad and shame him for not participating in team work, and saying he'll end up alone Little does she know pragmatics don't give a fuck about that It was so funny that she thought it makes a difference to us or saying this would make him upset Like duh you think we would participate in a team work if we weren't forced to? Lol no She was rude as well. And he still didn't reply why duude?! if i talked it would've probably caused a fight or misunderstanding cuz people are sensitive so i didn't xD how sad

[@TG-vt7ue]

While I would much rather work alone, highly value my own independence, and am self-centered, I also tend to make compromises/make sure that everyone is okay with what they're responsible for when working in a group (just feel like I have to, I guess). Is that affiliative or pragmatic?

[@yurizafurizaki5574]

Have you found your type?

[@whowillyoucallonthen4292]

Right on bro. Thanks for pushing through & getting these gifts & blessings out to us ✌😎

[@ddw34]

You are definitively an informative type.

[@bethreth5151]

Awesome lecture, but please dub it over with your best Dark Knight Batman voice!

[@marvellunatic7525]

haha, im an enfp and whenever I do group projects or interact with others, I find myself asking “okay what do you want me to do?”. sometimes I wonder if im initiating or responding. but I think im just triple affiliative. I always start the conversations but it’s usually with “okay guys…what do we do” and then I wait. people alwaysssss end up asking me “what do YOU want?” and I genuinely don’t care, im fine with doing whatEVER other people want :)

[@intraserv3123]

I know a lot of ENFPs who appear much more pragmatic than affiliative, I get the point but it looks like the balance between the two sides of coin can be really different within the groups that hold each title. I could see SJs being more affiliative than the NFs, meanwhile both are technically affiliative.

[@CSJoseph]

I disagree. You have to understand that each of these tools are based on only one of the four sides of the mind. This is outlined in episode 8 of this season. An ENFP is triple affiliative and is only pragmatic when in in their superego. Perhaps those ENFPs you know are actually ENTPs. This is a super common mistype.

[@Moana_moo]

As an ENTJ i usually ask my mom permission(out of respect for her pretty much the only person i ask permission from. Like im 20 and still sometimes im like”mom do u allow me”) but if she says no I’ll still find a way to do what i want regardless

[@dolarich]

I'm so endeared to this video on the deck 😂 love it Chase!!

[@KUKAKYOTOTOKYO]

As an INTJ, I assume I should fit into pragmatic. However, I can be very 'others focused'. My life's gems are the people I have been able to help in some way. To have made a difference in someone's life for the better. I suppose you feel that way as well, otherwise you wouldn't be making these videos, right? My idea of how society should work is very co-operative, with the idea of mutual aid being the focus, with full autonomy of every individual. However, when it comes to myself personally, I am uncomfortable when I feel I rely too much on others. It makes me feel vulnerable because I have a problem with trust, and prefer to be as independent as possible. I understand you had said something about having aspects of both, with the yin and yang as an example, if I've understood correctly. I'm just not sure which I really fall into. By the way. Karl Marx was also an INTJ, and I am a communist. More precisely, an anarcho-communist. Anarchism as being very anti-authorian, stateless, fully autonomous society. Communist when it comes to class and economics. So, anarcho-communist. I agree with Ayn Rand maybe half the time. I don't like her very much, but I can agree to some things.

[@tajmarie1329]

I am glad that I am not the only one who looks at alternatives to capitalism. I have been following Richard Wolff for a while, but have to read up on literature myself. As for Ayn Rand, I have not agree with most of her views, but respect her stance on individual sovereignty.

[@nachiketpargaonkar8646]

KUKAKYOTOTOKYO As an ISFP, I can understand your confusion since I have the same drive as you do: helping others even to a fault, sacrificing our own choice. But I can assure you, (if autonomy is a necessity to you) our way of helping others falls into the pragmatic category, in the sense that we don't want to depend on them while helping, we want to give our best to get the best for them. The affiliative types would rely much more on forming a team & depending on each other a lot. In short, it's more related to *how* you approach rather than *why* you do it. Helping others is the common goal, but how you prefer doing is what makes the difference.

[@shahrazade26]

I'm also an anarchist and after watching this lecture, I don't know where I fall. I'm a text book INFP so I should be affiliative.

[@imetal16ddin1]

I have 2 Rand books at my house cause they looked interesting. I need to actually start reading them.

[@nachiketpargaonkar8646]

Man the explanation of pragmatic side is like reading me through & through! Great video Chase! Now it feels like an epiphany why my ENFJ friend keeps saying I take her choice away while deciding something common!

[@etherealrosegold]

Such a kind soul...thank you for this

[@CSJoseph]

Let’s see how long this judgment of me last a

[@mehdihassankhanloo5297]

@@CSJoseph I'd say forever…

[@Kalanicoe]

“I want you to have a better life”.. thanks man I find my self returning over and over to the same videos noticing new details I don’t remember noticing before Have you read the 4 agreements? 1. Be impeccable with your word (ENTP virtue and vise).. kinda lol to be impeccable is to be without sin and according to the author sin is anything against yourself so basically part of it is making sure not to speak against yourself hmm but also dont speak bad about others because that could be bad for you etc And I’m not going to write an essay for the other 3 rn but I highly recommend the 4 agreements if you haven’t read it already.. it’s only a 2 hour audiobook and you can find it free on KZbin ☺️ one of the agreements is “don’t make assumptions” which is a common mistake of many when attempting to type someone “first try to understand then try to be understood” is from something else but that’s in the same ball park 😎 have a good day

[@WeisSchwarz]

16:52 you precisely say what I'm really struggling with in my current job. LOL. INTJ here.

[@cotasamnemano366]

I feel lucky not to be a abused INTP. ‘Cause I get education from people. Thank you, Joseph, you’re one of those.

[@jonathanchappell9503]

@ C.S. Joseph Edit: I have been humbled and embraced the affiliative. Every thing below this edit was the rage from the final death throws of my past, in which I was surrounded by affiliative types and was not allowed to be myself, due to my lack of social intelligence. I stand to say that this still is one of the most helpful things to learn from Chase, and now that I am seeing this from a loving perspective, I can say that Affiliative are the marble by which this ESTP artisan can craft a beautiful artwork. Without their stability and affiliative connection my artwork would be too unstable to make anything meaningful, and it is the stability of these types that make the art all the more beautiful. I need them to not be pragmatic, so that I may be. I now have had time to digest that God made these people their way for a reason, and like the air force, marines, army, and navy, they each serve their role. If we lost any of these types, I would be screwed. Instead of whining about the differences I have with my hunk of rock, I should learn to use my tools well and get to do meaningful work. If getting affiliative to change their loyalties was easy, it would not be worth it. This is a huge revelation, and now I can progress toward my desired outcome. Thankyou again Chase, as you are a true Godsend. Original: as a pragmatic christian, nothing is more frustrating then conventional church people who are the world's number 1 obstacle in my opinion., absolutely worthless in my default perspective. its no wonder why people are fed up with their dumbass parent's church life, and fall away. Anyway, pragmatism and affiliation dichotomy is probably one of the biggest benefits of learning from Chase, as they truly are a pain in the neck. Once I got a grasp of this, people became a lot easier to deal with. And what I mean by deal with is never give them what they want: connection or consensus. unless they work for it, but i am still formulating this procedure so dont follow it yet. Im a bit bitter still. (ESTP who agrees whole heartedly that affiliative are the biggest obstacle my type has, literal walking problem-having-whiners) although in my opinion, I would say that pragmatism, as i use it (a reasonably well developed person) is about long term harmony, while affiliation is about short term harmony. It seems these people will drink the cool-aide even if they know it is poisoned, as they would never ask forgiveness for not drinking it, and when asking permission not to drink it, they are given a resounding no and must conform to whichever stupid opinion they have been given. it is like they just wont view things themselves, but always outsource judgment to authority regardless if they think it is poisoned. but perhaps im mixing J's with affiliation in this rant. As my ENFP father is more open minded with Fi parent then any Te preference user ive ever met. yet he will remain with a huge glass of cool-aide, just ready to drink it. Even if you can get him to see the moral implications of a perspective, he wont betray his group, even though it is what is best for them. and if there is an affiliative type reading this, i hope you are triggered and/or feel less than because I am questioning your value systems, which you refuse to do. especially you CHRISTIANS!

[@Bluz1]

I've read a lot about the cognitive functions, watched a dozen of your videos, took multiple tests (I know, they are tests) and I always come to the conclusion (or get via tests) that I'm an INFP which I totally agree with. And judging by the comments from fellow INFPs, I'm definitely not the only who thinks that the INFP belongs in the pragmatic group. For example, I work as a freelancer because it gives me the most freedom for the time being while I'm actively focusing on building passive income streams so I can ditch the freelancing stuff in near future and completely do my own thing. All of this is because I want freedom and don't want to abide by societal norms, values and structures which I'll have to respect in a let's say corporate environment in order to "survive" in it. Also, the merit thing. As an INFP I view and treat everyone equally. That's why whenever I meet a new person I show them the same amount of respect as I did to the previous person I met, despite the difference in their societal status. A simple example of this would be me meeting an elder and a teenager at the same time. In this situation I approach both of them with the same level of respect although society would tell you to "respect your elders more". But not every elder deserves respect you know, they need to earn it on merit just like everyone else.

[@lunangellus]

agree

[@shelbynicholson6749]

Maybe you should do an INFJ/INTJ comparison. I am an INFJ but oh do I ever identify with the INTJs too. Sometimes I doubt whether I am even an INFJ. I value pragmatics over affiliative in this case.

[@CSJoseph]

its next

[@thedestroyercreator]

The video looks like it's a meditation session with a mafia man 😂

[@CSJoseph]

Lol you have no idea

[@whitneyvalens4126]

You are a good teacher, Chase!

[@xandirkuro4790]

The mastermind hiding behind the shadows Xd

[@xandirkuro4790]

Thanks for the chapter!

[@rac2300]

Ok, so maybe I can get some help on this one. I hate working in groups because I usually feel like they'll slow me down and prevent progress. However, whenever I choose to participate in any sort of group (job, roommates, etc.), I act very affiliative for as long as I can stand the attempt to be in said group. I truly believe that a lot of those affiliative traits are the best way for a group to succeed, if everyone follows it, but I also end up very frustrated with myself for behaving that way. Especially when the group doesn't move forward and make progress on goals. That being said, I'm never sure which way I really lean in this regard.

[@SummeyG.]

When talking about the political compass test I had to look back to see where I was on the chart because I forgot but I did remember one important fact and that was that I was almost exactly where Ghandi was. We are both affiliative and both tested as libertarian left. I keep trying to find a reason to not be an INFJ but too many things connect to not be.

[@projecttoheaven2579]

After watching your INTP vs INFP’s I was still confused as to which that I am. The Jung Test says I’m INFP but I felt that I was also an INTP but now after watching this video I guess I lean toward INTP-pragmatic. But then there’s still things that makes me really close to the INFP so I guess I’m still confused. When I was younger, there was this project I did all by myself because I was scared to fail because my group wouldn’t do anything but now that I’m older, I’m not accepting anyone not taking part in their work, I’ll just tell the teacher that they didn’t do their work and they’ll be the one getting the F.- I guess that’s pragmatic. Being pragmatic means INTP right? But then again recently I was in a group, because I didn’t want to all the work by myself because I’m in college and things are hectic and plus I don’t have time. If I’m in a group I let others be the leader but If no one is the leader, I’ll have to make certain decisions for the group. I GUESS THATS AFFILIATIVE ....... I’m still confused as to which I am

[@CSJoseph]

Look at INXJs then

[@danitza6712]

Creo que me pasa lo mismo, Abstract, pragmatic, interest... ?

[@CottonCandy-xk6ts]

I thought I'm pragmatic but after reading your comment I think I'm more affiliative than I think I am! 😯🤔🧐

[@gottesurteil3201]

I know I'm pragmatic. I think back to high school cross country, I was given a varsity letter for graduating rather than earning the proper time in my races, and I was not pleased.

[@natashabaier6247]

This video was so helpful :)

[@azarael77]

I'm pretty sceptical about the use of the political grid in this case. In most points I tend towards affiliative, but when using this tool, I would totally tend towards pragmatic as I am far on the libertarian / left quarter of the grid. I explain it to myself like this: liberterian-left positions are mostly about minority rights and not so much about the rights of the left-wing-libertarian himself. So that's pretty affiliative, even if it's focused on autonomy. Wouldn't it be more apropriate to say that left-wing-libertarianism is affiliative (because of the reason I posted above), left-wing-authoritarianism is pragmatic (because the person who takes this position mostly sees himself in charge which would give him the freedom to shape the world according to his "truth"), right-wing-libertarianism is pragmatic (because it's all about individual freedom) and right-wing-authoritarianism is affiliative (because the person who takes this position doesn't always sees himself in charge, but wants to surrender his individuality to his community).

[@mariamattya8545]

An interaction between my dad and my 3 year old cousin who still can't even talk properly: Dad: Adam, if you don't listen to me I'll get upset with you! Adam: then get upset with me Dad: get upset with you?? Adam: yes And this ladies and gentlemen an example of a pragmatic toddler 😂😂😂

[@bfmanion]

As an ESTP that was deluded for several decades, (ISTJ) I feel like I am professionally pragmatic but personally affiliative. Is this possible? I know we have a bit of both but makes it difficult to come down off the fence on one side...classic ESPT failure to decide/launch.

[@bfmanion]

ESTP

[@heartpoint5289]

Wow! I feel exactly the same. I am ENFP. I resonate with all the descriptions of ENFP except this distinction here. I feel so equally both. Professionally, I must be independent. I don’t collaborate with other professionals, I’m self employed and couldn’t ever go back to working for someone else. In school, I HATED group projects so much I would skip class if that was happening. And we are each other’s superego, right?

[@karismoffat1968]

There is a conflict here between ISFPs - ESFJs. My independence and pragmatism can seriously affect the team-oriented mindset of these guardian types... They are sooo sweet, but can easily get offended if I just start focusing on my own interests, out of nowhere... Working together is all about collaboration, and quality time for ESFJs. For ISFPs, it is all about purpose, and sharing tasks independently to get things done faster. The simple task of doing dishes together can be a nightmare. Try it out, and you will see what I am talking about, haha!! I love my hubby though. Perfect couple, pero no mucho! Lol

[@CSJoseph]

there is a conflict but they are necessary because they teach the life lessons needed for growth.

[@karismoffat1968]

@@CSJoseph yess!! And let me tell ya, I am experiencing that now, enjoying and appreciating my hubby's beautiful motives. A few weeks after watching this video, I can say: doing dishes with him now melts my heart!! lol

[@dominickkhan7554]

Primarily Affiliative, I can careless about myself if my family isn’t doing well and am willing to pick up the weight to raise them up and very Pragmatic when it comes to my career and work, if people are above me that aren’t very effective I call it out if I have a practical effective solution with 3 occasions to reference back to as to how their idea doesn’t work.

[@mauraliller6]

As an ISTJ, this dichotomy confuses me quite a bit. Technically I should be affiliative, but very often my need to be affiliative is for pragmatic reasons. For example, if I want to take the initiative on some new endeavor at the workplace I do feel the strong need to ask permission and get the go ahead on it before just doing it. This is to protect my own ass from getting into trouble later. In the workplace, to do things without asking anyone’s permission, can lead to reprimands from the boss, which could lead to my job being threatened. So you can see how the security orientation of the SJ plays out. I would prefer to just be able to do things I see fit without having to consult anyone but I know that in reality that often leads to trouble. Especially in the bureaucracy of many workplaces. At work, I’m generally a person who gets along with almost anyone. But again this is mostly for pragmatic reasons. I cannot work very effectively or efficiently if there are constant disputes between people. Also, it is expected that I get along with others if I want to keep my job. So it’s weird in that I want harmony between my coworkers but I don’t really wish to establish much personal connection with them. Just enough so that I can get my own stuff done, preferably alone and without much interference. I generally prefer to work alone than on group projects, worrying that other people are going to slow me down or try to sabotage my efforts. On the other hand once I’m in a group, I’m generally quite cooperative and worry that other people won’t be, negatively affecting the outcome. I have always had a high need for competence, personal achievement, and autonomy. I feel like at times I’m a weird mix of the Guardian and Rational temperaments. The guardian in me wanting the predictability and stability and the rational to master various fields of knowledge. I know I’m guardian though because of the lead Si. I feel conflicted in who to promote- the most loyal employee or the most competent one? My auxiliary Te says the most competent one, but that tertiary Fi, is rooting for that loyal underdog. A combination of both factors would be most ideal. Regarding roles- I do find that I need a clear purpose and expectations for what I’m doing. However I can’t stand being micromanaged and I want a lot of flexibility within my role to be able take on new endeavors as I see fit or to be able to expand my range of duties over time. Regarding politics I am closest to left-libertarian, which would be more common with pragmatic types. I can also see myself being a bit of a social justice warrior- making sure everyone gets heard and their needs met, which lines up more with affiliative. I think it’s the auxiliary Te which is making me identify a lot with several of the pragmatic qualities despite being an affiliative type. Te as a cognitive function is quite pragmatic. I am curious how other ISTJs (and ESTJs too) relate to the affiliative vs. pragmatic dichotomy.

[@shannondelacruz452]

I have also typed myself as being ISTJ, and have found myself having some thought processes contradictory to this type. I've found myself really wanting to know the type of everyone around me, which supposedly ISTJs aren't typically supposed to really even care about, but after much thought on it, I believe it all comes down to if everyone knew what type everyone else was and acted accordingly, life would be much more harmonious and less chaotic. I've also lately become very obsessed about overthinking how my actions and choices, especially at work, affect everyone around me, but I think it's more of an overcompensation for feeling like no one else does it at all and me trying to make up for them somehow than me actually wanting to cater to people. (I apologize for the rambling.) Most of the points you mention I completely identify with (not well versed in left-libertarian so I can't speak to that portion). In fact, while reading your post my initial reaction was "It's my doppleganger!" At work I much prefer working on my own, getting my stuff done, and people trying to chit-chat with me while I'm in the middle of working drives me insane. But then if others are chatting and I'm not involved in the conversation I feel very annoyed that I'm being left out. I also much prefer having specific goals and expected outcomes. Tell me what you want from me. If left to my own devices, I come up with way too many possible outcomes and freeze up because I don't know which is the "right" one. But once you tell me what you want, back off. I know what I'm doing. And if I don't, I'll ask you for clarification or further direction. I hate being forced into group work, especially if we have to come up with our own roles within the group. I also hate being put in charge. But I often find that if others aren't meeting my standards, I'll eventually take over and become kind of bossy because my way is "best". I am probably my worst critic and often feel like if I'm going to bother doing something, then I'm going to do it the best that I can, which may come off as seeming pragmatic. But often times, it comes down to the fact that I'm worried that if I don't do it the best that I can, then I'll have failed in doing my part for the whole, whatever the whole might be. And since I'm already being my worst critic, chances are you have nothing to say about my performance that I haven't already been at leas twice as harsh about, so keep it to yourself. Unless it's positive feedback. Tell me that because I really like to know I'm appreciated, even if I act kind of standoffish when you do, but that's because I don't like being the center of attention, even if the attention is individual.

[@karvast5726]

I'm a little confused on if i'm ISTP or ISTJ for this exact reasons.i do like when i'm told what they expect of me and therefore what task i am supposed to take and how to do it which is quite affiliative and i can work with others if they are cooperative and actually know what they are doing if they are not i'll try to take the lead but i'm not very confortable about that so it doesn't forcenatly goes as well as i want and if they are not cooperative and nothing is getting done i'll definitly get the lead and if it has to turn to chaos and screaming orders at them in order to do what needs to be done that is what i am going to do.i know it because it happened to me with a classmate.i'll take the lead and he wasn't cooperative so i did all the work and one day i wasn't there he continued and it was an awful mistakes (or maybe looking back on it "my way is the way" so i thought i could have done way better) i had to start over in what he tried to do and that drove me absolutely nuts and that turned into fights for the next MONTHS he must have been a pragmatic but a very terrible one

[@Jess-yv7zc]

I need to appreciate affiliatives more. My whole life, whenever roles have been thrusted upon me, my automatic response is "No, I don't and no, I won't." I typed Ayn Rand as an INTJ...is Howard Roarke in The Foutainhead also an INTJ? I had the Most Ferocious crush on him when I was 16 lol.

[@hiroakiminoroz1700]

I am no sure what kind I am, the only thing that come to me is the memories of my mates when I am doing some projects, i truly hate work with them, some of them didnt give a shit and send me to the lions in order to do the exposition most of the time, or live me alone. I hate communities that are inclusive and play the circle jerk without a bit of critics.

[@kurodesuuuu]

If certain Pragmatic types (like ENTPs) come off as more Affiliative (because of their ISFJ subconscious)- the only way to confirm whether they are Pragmatic or Affiliative is to spend more time with them & observing what makes them most comfortable, correct?

[@Entyipo]

Yes

[@johnm75]

You said pragmatic individuals focus more on self and affiliative individuals focus more on groups or community, but dominant and auxiliary Fi users seem that they can be very self-centered, though this is through my own personal experience, of course. Maybe it was just them.

[@CSJoseph]

pragmatic is more independent and affiliative is more interdependent regardless of levels of selfishness.

[@nachiketpargaonkar8646]

Maybe you encountered an ISFP, ISFP is an SP, making them pragmatic & they have dominant Fi. I'm an ISFP (most likely, I am "behind the scene" & "improviser" type for sure) & I clearly fall into the pragmatic category as explained in the video.

[@reneeharward1849]

So I am an affiliative person, an ENFJ, and I grew up in a home where there was a lot of arguing and crying, I wasn't the pushy kind and I didn't know what to do about it, you said affiliatives need that harmony, so what happens to them cognitively when they can't get that harmony?

[@CSJoseph]

they become the evil around them

[@Nebur9180]

Affiliatives like rules more than the results. I just had a group work as a pragmatic with 3 affiliatives and I noticed how they form this bond around each other and make their own rules and expect me to conform and forget the end goal what we actually were there for. They aren't made for invention and solutions but forming the organization's climate and making sure everyone's happy. Name one affiliative who invented anything.

[@CSJoseph]

I'd say prioritize moreso than like. And you're right while they're younger, when they're older, half of them get into their pragmatic subconscious (and half of the SP's replace them as they strive toward their affiliative subconscious). Everyone's got a starting point that they need to grow to overcome.

[@Nebur9180]

@@CSJoseph You are right, prioritize is better.

[@moneyvsfinance]

The thing about Ayn Rand, and Econ for that matter, is the statistics are clear cut and dry. This is why I the supply side economic theory (aka less government intervention) says "this idea is supported by the statistics and therefore theory" all the time, with each sub-thesis they present. Whereas the demand side (aka more government intervention side) always says "these ideas are not supported by the statistics." These directly competing ideas and statistics cover everything from market stability, to prosperity, to movement among socio-economic classes. Supply side wins every category, every socio-economic class. Now what is essentially overlooked by virtually everybody mainstream is that the currency market is as big as all the other markets combined, and therefore the most important market to apply free market principles to. It is absolutely necessary to abolish tax driven money demand aka no taxes on private currencies. The other option is exponential growth in tyranny, globally

[@mariob616]

Hey Joseph. Could you help me out with my type please? Here are my preferences and I am 100% sure of them: • Informative, Outcome/Progression (Tie), Responding, Interest, Pragmatic, Abstract, Earth&Water, Spear&Bow. *Can you help me out please?* I honestly love your lectures and I want you to help me because you have great knowledge.

[@CSJoseph]

csjoseph.life/csverify

[@mariob616]

@@CSJoseph oh so I have to pay 500$ :)

[@kurodesuuuu]

Hey, I'm not Chase- but from that order- you are an INFP. This assumes one crucial thing though- that you are Outcome, not Progression. As Informative+Progressive (Movement type) don't combine. So if you want further clarificaiton on whether you are an other type- try clearing if you are : Direct or Informative.

[@mariob616]

@@kurodesuuuu I'm deffenetly informative

[@kurodesuuuu]

@@mariob616 You're likely INFP then. If you care more about duties than futures possibilities: ISFJ If you think you're pragmatic: INTP or ISFP

[@draug7966]

This makes a lot of sense but wouldn´t NFs be a bit less affiliative than SJs and maybe SPs a bit less pragmatic than NTs, i mean the intuitives usually seem more individualistic? Idk, just a thought since as an INFP i feel like yes, i kinda hate conflict, selfishness, people not cooperating and all that but i´m also allergic to the group or the tribe imposing itself too much on the individual by pointless social norms, "you must be like this or that cause everyone else is" and that sort of thing.

[@Entyipo]

I think NFs would be less focused on the rules like SJs. Also NTPs especially INTPs can be very Affiliative. NTJs and Sps are probably the most pragmatic.

[@oluchukwuokafor7729]

@@Entyipo I wonder where you get this idea that ntps can be very Affiliative. I am intp, and I haven't interacted with many people that are more pragmatic than me. Maybe we can come of as Affiliative because people don't actually know us well.

[@Entyipo]

@@oluchukwuokafor7729 Chase said it and I agree with him. INTPs have ESFJ Subconscious and it can be very Affiliative

[@oluchukwuokafor7729]

@@Entyipo well Istps have Enfj subconscious yet no one calls them Affiliative because of that.

[@Entyipo]

@@oluchukwuokafor7729 Because ESFJs have Si as well as Fe which are both 2 Affiliative functions. ISTPs have Se which is more of a pragmatic function. Also no one calls INTPs Affiliative. They're still Pragmatic but it's just they're more Affiliative than the other Pragmatics

[@user_pipka]

Thank you very much!!

[@Jay-wj9ut]

My boss is an INTJ and we have a co-manager girl who is an ENFJ. I’m an SP. I literally can’t understand why he likes her so much. I can’t see for the life of me how she’s impacting anything. She just chats all day with everyone. No results anywhere. I understand this stuff decently well but just can’t make sense of this.

[@Jay-wj9ut]

I wish I could get away with just chatting to people all day. Sounds like a nice paycheck.

[@amy2434]

Well, that's because people-pleasing is a hidden skill too. You observe their temperament and say what's the most appealing to others. You can be the most logical person in the world but you can't be denied your own emotions and enfjs being the most skilled when it comes to persuasive types of communication,lol. Personally, I secretly hated those traits because it means sacrificing your own judgement and letting yourself become a doormat. Everything has pros and cons too.

[@soulspark3970]

Buuuut what I often also notice is that some pragmatists,really emphasising on "some", they value their independance and kinda disregard rules and/or others opinions but if it comes to other people, they actually freak out if they apply the same style. It's ok for them to do their own thing but others should be sheeple and stay in line and ask permission for every little thing >_> That drives me insane.

[@CSJoseph]

This is correct. each type has its own built in hypocrisy.

[@gottesurteil3201]

I'm guilty of this. I like my alone time but I can't stand it when my friends and family are too busy for me. But perhaps that is a universal sentiment?

[@nutcracker2023]

Thank you for always tasty lectures. By the way, do you have any lecture about Anima & Animus in future? Oh, and do you have any lecture on personality analysis of famous people in human history by reading their cognitive functions to explain why their lives played like that in your future lectures?

[@CSJoseph]

All of that is coming soon.

[@feijie3829]

pragmatic surrounded by affiliatives is a nightmare

[@Ruu555]

After watching this, I can confirm that I am the most pragmatic person on Earth. I don't think I have a single affiliative bone in my body. I just pretend to be affiliative at work to get along with people there. 😅

[@Odenix75]

👍👍 thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences very appreciated it here 👍🙏

[@karlafernanda2715]

Okay, now I'm confused. I'm pretty much debating whether I am an NT or an NF. I've considered myself an INFP for the longest time but I figured I could be wrong and I wanted to see what this type grid could say about it. The F/T has always been the most problematic letter in my case. I have a thing for both truth-seeking and doing the "right thing", I have a focus for both objectivity and subjectivity. I think I lean towards the F because I tend to help others a lot and be empathetic towards then, I also don't trust other people's moral judgements (nor their analytical skills, now that I think about it). I'm also highly intellectual and scientific but I don't know if that comes from nature or only nurture. I watched season 2 and I was pretty sure I was an idealist because I'm very focused on social change and making the people around me feel better, happier. I admire the progress of science and technology a lot, but I guess I leave it more to other people. What I do is help people with their problems, listen to them, analyze their situation and provide advice, comforting them, that kind of thing. However, this video makes me think I'm mainly pragmatic. I've always seeked freedom. I hate societal norms and conforming to the standards. I've always hated team work in school, I prefer to make my own decisions and do my own thing, others do slow me down. I'm realizing that my desire of social change comes from a place of individuality. I like inclusion because I like diversity, and I want people to have the freedom of doing whatever they want because I hate the restrictions of society today. I hate the feeling of authority choosing for me. But I genuinely like helping others. I can see things from various perspectives so I can make a pretty good mediator. I provide emotional support whenever I can. And sometimes I put other people's needs before my own because they're in a more vulnerable situation and it's a very me thing to help them through. I don't trust group decisions. I don't ask for permission unless I know they'll say yes, asking for forgiveness is definitely the way to go. So what is it? (Sorry for the long af comment, you can really tell I'm an informative type, huh?)

[@MusicCrackhead]

Also please speak on women who have so called male egos: INTJ, ISTJ, ISTP, ESTJ women etc... I’m heterosexual but I’ve always struggled with being super feminine and soft (or yin like).

[@CSJoseph]

I am more Yin like and I prefer women who are more Yang.

[@dolarich]

I agree with your perspective on asking for permission being an affiliative thing. However, using the term pragmatic becomes confusing. I'm an ENFP and the way I do things is pragmatic even though I'll always ask for permission. For example, I don't make things pretty, I make them functional, I care about utility over appearance, just watch how pissed off st or nt users get when I make a building in a videogame, I make it with minimum effort and totally functional with no regard to anything other than efficacy, these are all pragmatic traits. Perhaps making the distinction of the different ways of using the word pragmatic should be mentioned.

[@CSJoseph]

That's efficient, not pragmatic.

[@xandirkuro4790]

K, I'm pragmatic, but quite afiliative. I think so cause my brother is asking for permission all the time (afiliative).

[@inspi1281]

What if I'm very pragmatic INFJ??? That's also why your test gave me ISTP result, but that just makes no sense. I am the last person, that would care about tangible reality. And in other aspects INFJ type describes me the best. So what if there are people, who doesn't fit to communication styles, but fit very well to cognitive functions, 4 sides of the mind, etc.? How to type them? How to analyze them? What is more important in typing? I would say, that cognitive functions are more important, because they are the essence of our perception/the essence of our nature. Communication styles can be influenced by our surrounding... So is it really a good way to type people?

[@MrBezigebij]

Curious are certain types within each group more affiliative or more pragmatic. For example is an ISTP more likely to be extremely pragmatic verus and ESFP? I am also asking this because while I am an NF (ENFP) I don’t behave in a very affiliative way. Yes, I am fascinated by people but I don’t enjoy groups and I am not always great at asking permission. I will cueck in to see if others are on board if I think about it, but often I fail to fully calculate in others’s experiences when making a decision, unless I am explicity doing that. Hope that makes sense.

[@CSJoseph]

the answer is yes, but it also has a lot to do with human nurture and the type of society temperament or interaction style.

[@EthanDominates]

Yeah i"m the same. I've been trying to figure out my personality type for ages and i keep jumping to different types. I finally concluded that i am an ENFP, but after listening to this video and really relating to being pragmatic, i'm unsure again.

[@lalane5023]

My teenage son is an ENFP and he rarely asks permission (which often gets him into trouble). So I had the same question about him.

[@CSJoseph]

Leslie Lane maybe he is an ENTP?

[@cross-eyedmary6619]

Content starts at 10:51

[@Percival2755]

Would an INTJ subscribe to the belief- "The ends justify the means." or would Fi child get in the way?

[@Percival2755]

@@vizuz I don’t really agree with you on that. Granted I know little about this science, I have a feeling that despite being triple pragmatic, even INTJs would struggle to an extent when it comes to such a belief. Chase once put down a point for affiliative when typing Andrew Yang(INTJ). This can happen because of Fi child. Fi in the primary slots can have massive influence over someone's worldview and hence their decision making process.

[@sdutta1111]

@@Percival2755 my INTJ friend has mentioned before how his Fi child is often in conflict with Te parent so I'd guess so.

[@floatinqspirit4289]

CHASE, please see this its a crucial question! Can I say that because I am absolutely annoyed by the fact that you don't go straight to the point and give a lot of side info, that I am Direct? So, Direct people get annoyed by people that are not as direct? So, the Informative people will not get annoyed by this because they are also like this? Can I assume this to be correct?

[@CSJoseph]

not always, look at the type grid and season 5 playlist on this channel and you will know

[@floatinqspirit4289]

@@CSJoseph thank you! I will try to find it!

[@brittanypage1706]

Steamrolling with ENTP unconscious is a normal occurrence for my INTJ ego to utilize. I work for myself. I refuse to work for anyone unless it's absolutely necessary (like my work for the union). Working as a lifeguard really showed me I'm barely affiliative.

[@xandirkuro4790]

26:10 using a phone in near complete darkness doesn't seem so healthy xd

[@tamask7749]

Hi CS your videos are very insightful. Do you know if there is a way to test the dichotomies are as a result of nature or nurture? If not, how much should we account for the way a person responds/interacts as a result of his or her upbringing? Will you be exploring these concepts too?

[@CSJoseph]

There is a way and yes I will be providing a test on this in the future.

[@wearejungians]

Could an NT be more affiliative than pragmatic due to nurture? I notice that my natural tendency as a kid was always to do what I wanted to do and then get in trouble and ask for forgiveness (like the more black hat activities I was performing on mmo's). As I got older, my mom beat that out of me to the point where I think I overemphasize my Fe over my Ti. I've realize I pretend to be an air head around people to make them laugh but rarely do people see the intellectual side of me that enjoys debate and discussing mass amounts of topics. Any other NT's relate? I also don't have any attachment to being seen as smart other than when someone ignorantly assumes I'm an idiot. Then my Ti seems to kick in and give that person a tasty treat.

[@Entyipo]

As an INTP I relate very much. Especially acting as an airhead and not showing my intellectual side at all. But it's only an act with my ESFJ subconscious.

[@Entyipo]

I fell like it's more to do with NTPs rather than NTJs. Chase himself said INTPs are the most Affiliative of the pragmatics.

[@wearejungians]

@@Entyipo yeah I think both SJs and NJs are quick to cut people out of their life and don't seem to struggle as much as the NPs & SPs.

[@arachnid5608]

So confused. Thought I was an ENFP but I have more pragmatic qualities. I have often been called self- centred. What is happening? Am i living in a shadow/superego. I am also strong on extraverted intuition. Could it be that I have been mistaking introverted thinking for introverted feeling.

[@arachnid5608]

@@Luan_King Luan - Lion of Europe I feel as though dominant extraverted sensing would make you more prone to doing new things not just because you delight in the idea or concept like ENFP or ENTPs do. They tend to like exploring different concepts mentally, without necessarily having to implement.

[@hannewouters6119]

I'm wondering, after listening to this video I realised I'm pragmatic at work (and school) but really affiliate at home or with friends.. Any tips on how to figure this out? To know which one is my 'primary'? And thank you for all your video's!!!!

[@lunangellus]

same here

[@Liam-xf5tv]

Learning about afiliative and pragmatic ppl for the first time, I am so confused lol. I feel like the way Chase describes the afiliatives is so applicable to Fe users, Fe auxiliar and... just that Like... as an infp, I don’t feel like I care that much about society’s ethics, I think I am much more open to my morals. Could someone help me on that one?

[@Entyipo]

That's Fi. Chase says Affiliative people care about teamwork and doing the right thing than pragmatic types. They do what works and do what they think is better even if everyone disagrees with them.

[@CSJoseph]

Fi is discerning what's good/bad, right/wrong, like/dislike, etc but affiliative is living life doing the right thing. pragmatic Fi users have the same ability to discern but live life by doing what works.

[@Liam-xf5tv]

@@CSJoseph got it! Thank you, Chase

[@Liam-xf5tv]

@@Entyipo thanks bro

[@TMscorpion1000]

Can we be 100% sure that all SJ's and NF's are affiliative, and all SP's and NT's are pragmatic? (Primarily, of course).

[@CSJoseph]

Yes. Please watch S15E8 for more context.

[@erinjk123]

I thought you were in a basement at first. I am mostly pragmatic. I am usually on my own, suffering with determination through my journey. I think people leave me out on purpose a lot so I go my own way. I also don't like things decided for me. & I don't like obstacles....

[@CSJoseph]

it is roles being decided for you, not things :P

[@erinjk123]

roles included:P

[@katlauren9161]

I think that I am an INFP but I am extremely pragmatic. Is that possible or did I mistype myself? When I take the mbti tests I get either INTP or INFP. An example of my pragmatic mindset is that when I work on a creative project my affiliative husband wants to incorporate people into the project based on him wanting to help them or them being family or friends. I on the other hand want to incorporate people only based on their skill level since the outcome of the project is of utmost priority to me.

[@CSJoseph]

sounds pragmatic to me, doesnt sound like an INFP tbh

[@katlauren9161]

Thank you kindly for your reply! Could it be that because as an INFP I care what other people think and therefore prioritise having perfect art and establishing my status as an artist over working with family/friends? Anyhow I will further research whether I truly am an INFP. Btw could you make a video comparing the INFP to the INTP? It would be immensely appreciated.

[@nachiketpargaonkar8646]

@@katlauren9161 Same here! I've been typed ISFP before, but now when I try different sites, most of them type me as an INTP & a few show INFP. I am informative, responding & control, so that fits. I can't decide between abstract/concrete & interest/systematic. I do feel I'm much more on pragmatic side & I've been 'accused' of taking away people's choices. Hopefully both of us would find our correct types objectively!

[@aura7153]

Why as INFP I feel I can relate more to pragmatic approach even I have to have a triple affiliative approach in my mind sides ?

[@CSJoseph]

because the ideal world in your mind affords you unlimited freedom and independence while reality does not.

[@rebekahwilson1732]

@@CSJoseph Lol this is what I came to say. I was trying to figure out why I was so triggered as an INFP. And I was like OH because I relate to pragmatic and I wish EVERYONE would too. EVERYONE JUST BE YOUR OWN PERSON SO I CAN FEEL BETTER ABOUT THE FACT THAT I JUST WANT TO BE MY OWN PERSON.

[@Fox43256]

I absolutely am pragmatic and I am infp. Have my own business. 100% make my own rules. I will not be controlled by the majority and refuse to be a pawn. I am self supporting for 10 years now. My sj family has been worried about me for years now because I am such "a risktaker" and I am sorry not sorry.

[@geriatricward]

remember you have Te in 4th position. you value efficiency and results

[@amalksuresh2538]

Maybe an Isfp?

[@majavidova4311]

Even though this is probably true I personally find it incredibly unfair..

[@heatherhawkins9606]

Note to self 17:33

[@intj5w4rloei87]

chase you di best

[@boxy_tocs2035]

I'm still trying to wonder if me judging others is affailitive... Eh probably is.. because I focus too much doing the dumb things. on people having some norms.. I mean ig I focus on myself too.. at the same time... Would lable myself as an infp I think I'm more of an affiliate enfp but work better when I'm alone.. Edit: idk

[@user-mn5ge3mq9f]

Im an enfp and other people typed me enfp too, but how is it possible that im an enfp AND pragmatic?!?? Im pragmatic!!!!?

[@raedjamal5779]

hell nah

[@susanmalczewski9052]

Sure you're not ESFP? ENFP is a common mistype for ESFP. Try using Chase's grid

[@wenmyster]

Hi Cs Joseph, great videos. Question: Affiliative = people pleaser, seeking others approval of themselves? While pragmatic is I don't care about what you think about me so I say and do what I want?

[@CSJoseph]

Chris Wen affiliative people are focused on doing the right thing while pragmatics are focused on doing what works

[@Ctrooper2011]

I wouldn't call Jesus affiliative. He continuously broke the rules of His time and even challenged the Pharisees' overly strict interpretation of the Jewish law. He also struck a friendly conversation with a Samaritan woman when it was considered deviant behavior and even overturned marble-tables of money at a Church being desecrated by tax collectors! Jesus still displayed affiliative tendencies, such as when He assigned Peter the role as first Pope (mind you, the name wouldn't be given until centuries later) and displayed a respect for the law, albeit clarifying "the Law was made for man, not man for the Law".

[@kurodesuuuu]

If Jesus was an INFJ- his subconscious would be ESTP (a pragmatic type). ESTPs are famous for breaking rules

[@Ctrooper2011]

@@kurodesuuuu Jesus' actions seem primarily pragmatic. Don't you think the subconscious is secondary? Plus, it's always best to capitalize His pronouns.

[@kurodesuuuu]

@@Ctrooper2011 That's a possibility. I haven't yet figured out how to determine if someone is acting via their subconscious or primary ego (asked Chase, but no response). I believe he said somewhere: a person's happiness, and aspirations unlock by going subconscious mode, whereas the Ego is just the place one is most comfortable in. I haven't read Christian literature, so I don't know if Jesus gained happiness from his pragmatic actions Also, I appreciate the heads up on the capital 'His'. I live in a non-Christian country, so I had no clue

[@tehflooper]

I recently read a post by Guy Standing, a fervent activist for universal basic income. In it you can read things like the following: "There is nothing especially left-wing about providing everybody with a basic income - it is a matter of common justice that would enhance freedom and provide basic security for all." "My research indicates that these benefits would be far greater if the trial income had been given to a whole community, where it would bring more cooperation and greater impact on the local economy." "It is a matter of common justice, while enhancing freedom and providing basic security, which is a human need and a public good." "As a matter of justice, we should acknowledge that the income of all of us is far more due to the efforts of the many generations before us than anything we ourselves do." I did not know him, I have never spoken with him, but just reading this I am convinced that he is an affiliative type although he probably believes that he supports "freedom" when he is not, it's all about inclusion. If you repeatedly use the word community, common good, cooperation, social justice, or put society above the individual, you are probably affiliative (this is perhaps more noticeable in the case of philosophers). I see that in the comments there are many XNFPs feeling upset/confused because from their perspective they believe that they are pragmatic as a consequence of Te, when if they do a close examination, they will realize that their philosophy of life revolves around helping the "community" and continue the rules. Hence, for example, many end up as activists, local politicians, school teachers, etc. They are triple affiliative, and the pandemic has shown it. The case of vaccines is a very illustrative case, a XNFP will think that everyone should be vaccinated or would agree that they are mandatory (because it's the "right thing" and the consensus supports it), regardless of the freedom of choice of others, would also agree to discriminate, segregate or punish those who do not do so, as from their perspective, not doing so would put the community at risk. Something similar happens with protocols in general ... "In a social situation where there are people not getting along or they're not cooperating (not putting on a mask, not respecting asocial distancing, not getting vaccinated), the affiliative people will literally be triggered (you are putting society in danger)" "They need to have that harmony, they need to have that cohesity and cohesiveness within the group. Everyone needs to get along, everyone needs to be cooperating, everyone needs to be sharing" = obey, follow the rules (no matter how restrictive, arbitrary or stupid they are), do as you are told, comply. I wonder how North Korea got to where it is. I wonder how the inquisition operated for centuries. I wonder how purges were justified in the Chinese Cultural Revolution. I wonder how Pol Pot carried out his genocides in Cambodia. I wonder how any totalitarian regime has been justified. I think that the term "pragmatic" causes confusion, since both groups can be pragmatic in strict terms (since each has their interpretation of what is useful or necessary and take action on it), they would be rather "individualistic" or not restricted by social conventions.

[@CSJoseph]

Good observations, If you're a member, check out the Cutting Edge of Govt Archetypes by Temperament

[@roff000]

I am confused though... In terms of socializing, I don't wanna be left alone by my friends, I aleays want to be "belong" but in terms of school works, I am more productive when I am alone... what does I need to look for or what is more important to observe to see my primary function? Do i need to consider on how I interact with people or on how I execute my work?

[@CSJoseph]

Yes

[@zakiyanowicki5044]

I find it interesting how you say pragmatic basis reward on merit and affiliate type are likely to prefer Their reward based on time spent and loyalty shown to the company. If they’re going to put an affiliative person in that position rather than a pragmatic person who holds more merit. The reason they have priority over that role may be because they’ve shown more loyalty and connection amongst the social work environment. Encouraging harmony rather than discourse in general. If you can achieve harmony and display how your talents would be more affective, then I say go for it. It just might take some time depending on how well you can define and emulate the types in your work environment, to your advantage.

[@zakiyanowicki5044]

To use to your advantage**

[@linamackeviciene9395]

I am a bit confused about affiliative vs pragmatic and systematic vs interest. You'v mentioned in this video that affiliative people constantly check in and check everything against the norms. But in the video about systematic vs interest, you've mentioned that systematic people check everything against the norms and rules. So, what is the difference between those concepts?

[@CSJoseph]

systematic have a specific methodology for solving problems where as affiliative is basically slavery to the consideration of social norms.

[@linamackeviciene9395]

@@CSJoseph Than you for your response! I love your videos and have typed few persons in minutes by using typing grid, whom I couldn't type for years. Typing by cognitive functions is way too confusing. (fellow ENTP)

[@criseland]

Ok, so I’m very into going my own way, not having a set timetable to rely on(at work). I don’t really ask permission for anything. I need to be “free”, not controlled. But I’m very into making a “community feel” of any environment, like keeping a group of friends together, making a good “friends-clique” out of the ones I work with, feeling like a family. I actually get a family-feel to people really quickly. Is that considered affiliative or pragmatic? I’m actually pretty much in the dark here. Other than that the only thing I’m actually sure of is that I’m initiating. (And I did read all the booklets on understanding yourself and others, like 5 times, trying here!) Thank You for what you’re doing !! /Lise!!

[@CSJoseph]

sounds pragmatic to me.

[@criseland]

Ok, I’m giving up😅🙈 Just got typed at the discord as ENFJ, and it sounds pretty close. But at the same time I do feel pretty pragmatic...

[@ladameauxcamelias3524]

I'm balanced both. But I'm an infp with estj subconscious focused, thats why. I'm independent, I don't ask permission, I’m wild yet I can be as tame as the lake. it would takes a strong man as entj man to tame me. Lol