How Does It Work? Honda's 2 Motor Hybrid System Explained!

How does the hybrid system in the Accord, Clarity, Insight and upcoming CR-V Hybrid work? How is it different than other hybrids and will you really get 212 HP in that CR-V? Let's take a deep dive!
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[@MrSilver708]

Hi Alex...I am a product knowledge instructor for Honda Canada....That was a very good explanation of our system. Thanks for posting! :)

[@ronaldroberts7221]

As an old hot-rodder, I can safely say....it's not about the horse-power, it's about the torque...It's always about the torque...well done Honda, well done.

[@hackney7106]

Absolutely!👍👍👍🦘🦘🦘🦘🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺

[@jeffjo8732]

@@hackney7106 This old debate? Ignoring the mass of the car and any losses, acceleration (or towing force) is proportional to: (Engine Torque) * (Total Gear Ratio) ... or equivalently ... (Engine Power) / (Vehicle Speed) The only reason you can compare similar vehicles by their torque, is because practical construction means that they will have similar ranges of Total Gear Ratio. The reason Hot Rodders like to compare torque, is not because it is more significant; it actually isn't. It is because you can achieve values that are close to T_MAX over a relatively large range of rpms, whereas P_MAX comes at only one specific rpm value. Electric Vehicles - and yes, performance-wise these Honda hybrids are electric vehicles driven by the combination of a generator and a battery - are quite different. There is a speed that I'll call V_MAX. At that speed, the car can produce both maximum torque and maximum power. Below it, they can produce maximum torque, but their best power is P_MAX*V/V_MAX. This is why they are so quick off of the line. Above that speed, they can produce maximum power but their best torque is T_MAX*V_MAX/V. In the Accord and CR-V hybrids, V_MAX is about 37 mph. T_MAX=232 lb-ft and P_MAX=181 HP. In a Tesla Model S, V_MAX is between 43 mph and 49 mph, depending on which version.

[@hackney7106]

Think you have read me wrong?It has always been about the torque.HP is irrelevant.

[@jeffjo8732]

@@hackney7106 No, you have accepted a very old, and very wrong, myth. There is some basis to it, but mostly due to the characteristics of an internal combustion engine. That is, not to this car. In this one, 232 lb-ft is all that matters at any speed below 37 mph, and 181 HP (or 212 if you compare it to an ICE) is all that matters at any speed above 37 mph.

[@hackney7106]

But you put it out there about Torque.I was actually agreeing.

[@backwoodsbungalow9674]

For context, the Honda Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) in the original 3 cylinder Insight coupé hybrid essentially replaced the flywheel with a pancake electric motor generator. That was light and simple, but being bolted to the engine like a flywheel, it could not drive the wheels without the engine rotating. A 2 motor hybrid with a clutch is more complicated but enables the engine to be decoupled from the wheels and stationary while an electric motor drives the wheels. 😎

[@dennisng3465]

This is the definitive guide to learning and understanding all three hybrid systems implementation. Thank you for this amazing lesson!

[@TKevinBlanc]

This system is silky smooth in my Accord. You only have to get used to an engine that revs independently of the speed of the car, but it's a very nice system.

[@jasonw98]

Don't straight pipe it

[@flynnsarcade.1982]

That’s what I’m still getting used to….the engine running independently of what I’m doing. But I think in mine (2021) they try to simulate the engine revving up and down appropriately.

[@fucheduck]

try a deasil train. they work that way too.-I think City buses should but the do not! I am surprised at this in the "enviormnetal" "friendly"" 2020s LOL

[@fucheduck]

@@flynnsarcade.1982 shame on them for that! the engine should not run unless the motor needs it's charge!

[@doppler3237]

@@fucheduck I have a clarity its 4,000lbs, bigger than accord and it gets 45 mpg does 0 to 60 faster than any car I have had. Because you know more than the Honda engineers.

[@killarazzi]

This aligns very well with my experience driving a 2019 Accord Hybrid. Mileage is amazing around 65 mph (53 mpg) then takes a hit around 70 mph (39 mpg). Thanks for the clear explanation!

[@user-fp8bv3jv3y]

How about city driving

[@zholbert7888]

@@user-fp8bv3jv3y I have a 2020 accord hybrid. In the city, it highly depends on how you drive it. I accelerate gently, and use the paddles for the regenerative braking and get really good mpg when it's not cold. I'm getting 47 mpg mixed driving (60/40 highway/city) the last 2k miles, but it's been about 30 degrees in the morning during this period. I think when the lows are in the 60s, I'll get over 50 mpg average.

[@erichaynes7502]

@@zholbert7888 I can see how hypermiling these Accords' can really add to the MPG but man, it would be tough for me to do that all the time. I've known people to get around 38 if they drive it normal. Still, in the big scheme of things cars are so expensive nowadays gas mileage doesn't save us very much money, maybe 500 a year but the car cost tens of thousands of dollars, registration/taxes are in the thousands, insurance is another grand or two.

[@zholbert7888]

@@erichaynes7502 38 mpg would require a lead foot and cold weather. My wife doesn't pay attention at all to mpg and gets 40-44 mpg. I know the tourings get worse mpg (I have a base model) When I pay attention, I get into the 50s easily. If you like to drive aggressive, I don't think a hybrid would be your best bet. Last week, one of my best friends was shopping for a new accord, and I suggested he get the 2.0 turbo because he likes to get after it on the road. He ended up buying a 2.0 turbo sport. I don't care about the money savings a lot. I agree that for now, the savings don't make a ton of difference. I just don't feel the need to be in a hurry on the road, and it's like a game to me to get good mpg. I like using the paddle stoppers to slow down and see what my numbers are. I love the electric feel as well. The difference in price between an lx and the base hybrid will be recouped through gas savings, and the base hybrid has some advantages over the lx (remote start, 60/40 rear split seats)

[@erichaynes7502]

@@zholbert7888 Thanks Z, it's good to hear from someone who's driving the hybrid real world. I honestly didn't know that if you drive easy enough you can get 50 MPG and I do like that it has a remote start!

[@davidpierce5594]

I've listened to other videos trying to explain the hybrid systems in my Accord. This is the only one that makes sense of it all and fully explains under which circumstances, what motors are running. I thought that when the gas motor kicked in it was always powering the wheels.

[@scotty6124]

Thank you for doing such detailed videos since you're one of the reasons I felt so confident and knowledgeable buying my 2018 accord hybrid.

[@christianreyes9386]

This type of video is new for you but I enjoy it! Please do more!

[@thejake8099]

he's done other explanation videos, he even did one on how SH-awd works

[@skipsteel]

Clear a Professional does not have to love what they do, but in Alex's case he does. It shows in every video. Thanks Alex for making a very complicated hybrid system, into much more understandable data driven solution.

[@robertrocheville7769]

As a Honda tech I have to say that was a very good explanation. I hope they come out with a hybrid Odyssey.

[@provocativethoughts3819]

Hello, my check engine light comes on when I drive through water 💦 on the road and the engine freezing up then spotter, what cause that , it’s 2004 Honda Fit

[@robertrocheville7769]

@@provocativethoughts3819 I'd start with the code and let that lead you.

[@robertrocheville7769]

@@keyboard5494 it's a wet clutch. Something like you'd find in an automatic transmission. If you matain the fluid it should last the life of the vehicle.

[@michaeldelacerda8598]

Awesome explanation on Honda's 2 Motor Hybrid System. Thanks for sharing!

[@guizarbg]

As always great explanation! Can you please also do a video explaining the Kia/Hyundai hybrid and compare it to the others with pros and cons. The upcoming Hybrid Kia Sorento looks very interesting with a1.6L turbo/hybrid producing around 230hp. Hopefully you can also dive into this setup.

[@thejake8099]

Alex, I'd like to know why/how the MDX, NSX, and RLX hybrid systems differ...they're all 6 cylinders, but different bore and stroke and layout, longitudinal vs transverse.

[@pacosanchez89]

Excellent and easy to follow explanation. Got my Accord hybrid in Aug/21 and it really like it. First hybrid and I’m really impressed.

[@drdoolittle5724]

Only just found you and what a very good surprise, superb graphics and enjoyable mechanics, nice. Thank you.

[@daveg872]

I'd like to see more of these "tech explained" videos. Thanks for this one.

[@saquibhussain6000]

You are the kind of KZbinr we need. Thank you for making videos like this, just what we really need. Just awesome perfect and real information we need for reviews. Lot of respect for your work.

[@ShamrockParticle]

News, no muzak or flashy video garbage, just professional admiration. Huge kudos.

[@dieguin8130]

Excellent explanation. Concise and well presented - really enjoyed it.

[@JasonYergin]

Thanks, man!! I've been trying to understand the two-motor system and this is a perfect explanation.

[@earl4769]

My wife just bought a new accord hybrid- It is taking a little getting used to- I found using the paddle shifters for breaking pretty cool. I love the car, it is super quiet.

[@ngoandrew8]

Finally someone can explain how Honda Hybrid works! Thanks!

[@richbarrier]

You are one of the best. Always enjoy your vids. Keep it up!

[@johngo6283]

Alex, you are very impressive with your car knowledge. Outstanding video!

[@henrybrar]

Having that kind of knowledge is a positive thing but explaining it to others in such a simplified way takes it to another level. Finally someone who keeps it simple and yet makes 100% sense. Thanks a lot.

[@stevenplutes]

Hey Alex, I appreciate you taking the time to explain these things. Details are interesting, and nobody else seems to think they're worth discussing. I would be very interested in the Acura hybrid setup and how that works in the MDX and RLX. Thanks again.

[@rodbriski6461]

This video clearly explains the Honda Hybrid system. Much appreciated!

[@mvcnj9700]

Thanks for this excellent tutorial.

[@klaseronen7535]

Thank you for this very enlightening and informative video. I am about to take the leap from traditional diesel-engined cars to possibly a hybrid-engined car (the new Honda Jazz/Fit Hybrid) in the challenging Finnish climate. Your very professional video helped me figure out many details about the new Honda technology. Thanks again, best regards!

[@afcgeo882]

I would be worried about the electric battery energy retention in the winter. It just isn’t that good. Also, if the car uses engine antifreeze to heat the interior, then it will run the engine most if the time just to keep up the operating temperature (in the cold times), which kills fuel efficiency. I would not rush into a hybrid unless it had an electric heat pump and a NiH battery.

[@contender357]

Great explanation of all the hybrid systems available. Can't wait on your review of the CRV hybrid.

[@googligook8092]

Excellent and very informative. Thanks Alex. Much appreciated.

[@fordgalaxie3726]

Absolutely brilliant video! Looking forward to take delivery of my HONDA HR-V hybrid in Germany in October.

[@jimmacmurdo355]

Thanks for pointing out what I perceive to be a fundamental weakness of many/most hybrid vehicles, that being their [lack of] performance above 65 - 70 mph. My former 2016 Sonata hybrid was gangbusters up to about 65 mph; delivering 45+ mpg. At about 70 or so, it would still get in the low 40s, but over 70, it lacked any gumption whatsoever and fuel efficiency plummeted to the low 30s. Moreover, the engine was much more vocal, making a less-than-pleasant driving experience.

[@daniava2025]

That totally isn’t why it was designed for city use compared to long distance travel

[@fivish]

My Lexus UX 250h has no lack of performance at any speed! 0-60 as more like 7 seconds than the advertised 8.5 seconds. Even at 70 mph it does 54 MPG.

[@robertpower09]

I have owned a Clarity for about 6 months and could never find a good explanation on their transmission type until now. I was told that it was a direct drive but was confused as to why Honda called it an E-CVT. Thanks for the explanation.

[@jeffjo8732]

To Honda, "eCVT" means "electrically coupled CVT." As Alex explained, that means that in most situations the engine's contribution to propulsion is not mechanical. It is by generating electricity to power the motor, and the ratios of engine rpms to wheel rpms varies continuously. Toyota means something different when they say "eCVT." It is "electronically controlled CVT." It's complicated, but they have a three-way transmission connecting the engine and two motor-generators. By controlling the electricity to and from the motor-generators, they vary the same ratio continuously.

[@attilakhan4606]

@@jeffjo8732 Hello, I have a question. Is the e-cvt transmission used in this new 1.5 cc Honda Jazz exactly the same system as the e-cvt used in the 1.8 cc Toyota Corolla sedan or is it a different system? The reason why I asked this was they said that the risk of deterioration of the e-cvt system used in Corolla is less than the normal CVT. Do you think we will have problems with the e-cvt gearbox if we buy Jazz?

[@meki___6881]

@@attilakhan4606 no atlest at the time of writing all toyota hybrids are power split Planetary gear type

[@meki___6881]

Also the true definition would be gasoline elektrical transmission with a highway gear

[@Liguritio]

Such an excellent explanation. Dude you are a pro. None touched upon the subject like the way u did.kudos. Could you also make a detailed comparison for Honda fit and Toyota hydrid for equivalent size. Much help. Thanks

[@wookiefuzz]

FINALLY, a clear explanation! Great video!

[@mitshumarner5870]

I test drove a CR-V EX Hybrid this past weekend on Long Island. I found the hybrid system to be seamless and inconspicuous for the most part. The engine kicks on automatically and does it's own thing when the battery gauge runs low. The tachometer is replaced with a similar, arcing gauge that records power usage and charging with a marker delimiting the two. The fuel gauge for the engine is to the right. The push button shifter is pretty much easy to use once you get used to it and clears up some space on the console. The EX-L gets a heated steering wheel on the Hybrid, a plus from the previous year when it was only available on the Touring. The ride was more or less very similar to the gas only model, but I didn't push the car too much. I took it on the highway and it performed nicely, the engine cycling on and off to generate amps for the main motor and the battery. The dealer said that the motor would shift on and off at highway speeds depending on the sped I was going, hills, etc. I found the only way to tell if the motor was running was on a hill when it droned and on the highway, when the gauge showed the power usage farther beyond the demarcation point of charging. The dynamic resistance braking is from paddle shifters like truck Jake Brakes. You toggle more resistance and the car visibly slows down on exit ramps, while the battery fuel gauge visibly gains. Once at a full stop, the system resets to zero the regenerative braking effort automatically. I detected no discernible difference in what was motivating the CR-V at highway speeds versus local speeds. The air conditioning is electrically run, so when stopped and the engine's off, the AC compressor still provides chilled air from the battery. When the battery is low, the engine kicks on to run the AC system compressor electrically. I am not sure how the heat works, but the dealer said i can remote start the engine on cold mornings to generate heat. He added that in cold weather, when starting off in EV mode, the car will automatically warm up the engine before it is required for electrical generation work. Downside: Not the car, but the dealer who slapped a $1000 extra charge to the MSRP because of the rarity of the CR-V Hybrid. That prevented me from purchasing the CR-V then and there. The CR-V Hybrid is available across all trims of the the CR-V and in only a AWD format. It adds $1200 to the base price. The dealer adds another grand to the mix to make the car pretty expensive. I can wait. Looking forward Alex to your full test drive and I'd appreciate some commentary on the price gouging happening with Honda dealers in the USA.

[@rscranman2002]

Wow! Good review and it sucks the dealer put a premium on it. They will find out soon enough that people are not buying a lot of cars now and that prices WILL come down. I saw prices at this dealership in Georgia to be MUCH less than msrp. www.heritageromehonda.com/vehicle-details/new-2020-honda-cr-v-hybrid-ex-l-rome-ga-id-35416937

[@MegawattKS]

Awesome channel. I didn't know about some of the other technologies you mentioned - but now I'm even more glad I bought the Honda Clarity Plugin-Hybrid EV. Like you said, the big EV motor provides the torque needed for everyday driving (and then some). And as you note, the regen-braking is flawless. Literally I cannot tell when the difference between it and friction brakes, except for the nice regen gauge that tells me I'm putting power back into the battery. Now if only someone could get the word "hybrid" out of the consumer lexicon and emphasize the "EV" instead, these cars might sell even better :-)

[@351CJ]

Just bought a 22 Accord Hybrid. Thanks for the detailed explanation. The dealership couldn't even give anywhere near what you explained

[@edwardlewis5967]

Thank You so much, looking forward to your next video.

[@future62]

I hope they make a beefier, plug in SH-AWD version for Acura. A 250hp electric motor in the RDX would be cool

[@James-il3tq]

Absolutely! Handling likely to take a hit though with added weight from batteries.

[@baldheadlogic]

How about adapting this system to a redesigned ILX sized Acura...JMHO

[@future62]

@@James-il3tq Handling already took a hot from the ride height 😁 With the CoG being lowered it might benefit

[@boboutelama5748]

No. Speed limit is 120 or 130 on 90% of all markets with exception of Germany and some american places. Every two DL of fuel dispatched on the market will generate more than 10'000 deaths a year.

[@Jusumoner1]

Thanks for clarifying how my Clarity works, non less it's an amazing car to drive.

[@Jusumoner1]

@80% what?

[@WAN2TREE4]

It's a compliance car for Honda

[@CMDR_Birb]

AWESOME VIDEO!!! Looking forwards to the Planetary gear hybrid video. Btw I have a 2019 Camry Hybrid. Pretty decent car.

[@maereanm]

this presentation is awesome!

[@shenmisheshou7002]

Some clarification in the case of the the Clarity PHEV. In normal mode, as long as there is a charge in the battery, the ICE will *never* actually be clutched to the drive wheels and 100% of the propulsive force will _always_ be provided by the electric motor. There is no instance where the car will use the ICE to drive the wheels when the car is operated in normal mode and there is charge in the battery pack. Now the Clarity has a "Hybrid" mode, but this is not the default mode for the car. It is an option that the driver selects via a push button. When the driver selects this mode, the the car will sometime (light load and steady speeds) lock the the ICE to the axle, but even here, the ICE lacks the torque to drive the car up even a slight hill, and in most cases, the clutch will unlock and the electric motor will propel the car while the ICE re-supplies current to the battery. Even when the Clarity is in Hybrid mode and running at highway speeds, the ICE is not always providing the propulsive force and in my ownership experience, the electric motor is often still providing the propulsive force even when the car is in Hybrid mode, with the ICE simply re-supplying the battery with the current being drawn by the traction motor and the car environmental, entertainment, steering, and other systems. In this mode, the battery charge program will attempt to maintain the battery at whatever state of charge it was at when the car was switched to Hybrid mode. For example, if there were 14 bars showing on the battery state of charge display, the ICE would turn on and off and run switch between ICE and EM propulsion as necessary to keep the 14 bar state of charge. Also, if the charge were to drop to two bars, the ICE will come on to charge the batteries but once again, the electric motor is still by far and away the primary propulsion source and here, the motor will generally sit at a fast idle and simply keep running as necessary to keep the battery from going completely flat, which can damage the battery. The power system though is as shown, but the Clarity in normal mode never* turns on the ICE except if the driver presses hard on the accelerator, in which case the ICE comes on, but only to provide additional current to the electric motor. Even under hard acceleration, the ICE does not clutch to the drive and all of the propulsion is done by the electric motor with the ICE simply adding extra current (the battery pack can['t provide enough current for the electric motor to develop full horsepower so the difference comes from the ICE). * There may be instances where the ICE does turn on in the "background" on the Clarity. This seems to be done as part of a diagnostic routine. Others report it, but I have never experienced it on my Clarity. It appears that the motor comes on, gives a message that it is in calibration mode, and after some period of time turns off, but no one seems to know the exact conditions that trigger this behavior. I have owned my Clarity PHEV for 20 months and have never experienced this conditions myself, but others report it. The proof of the above is that I can go indefinitely in the Clarity without having to put gas in the tank because in my local driving, I never go more than about 50 miles and I never accelerate so hard as to make the ICE come on to supply extra current to the motor, so the only propulsion I use is the electric motor and this is at all speeds from 0 to 75 MPH (which is as fast as I ever drive the car). So, while the general flow of power as presented in this video is the same for the Clarity, in normal mode, the ICE never comes on at all unless the driver demands fully horsepower from the electric motor, at which time the ICE comes on and steps up to a very high RPM to drive the generator to provide the additional current needed by the motor (Clarity owners call this the "Angry Bees" mode because of the high noise level associated with the small ICE spinning very fast to provide the additional current).

[@frenchy1224]

I own a 2018 Clarity, and I can say that when the little gear isn't present on screen while on the highway (meaning the engine is producing electricity to then power the motor, not driving the wheels directly), the fuel economy is definitely decreased. The range where the engine can directly power the wheels is from about 45-75mph. That is definitely the sweet spot for best fuel economy. Also, now knowing the smaller motor generates power from the engine makes sense. When using the car in cold winter without a battery charge, the engine has to warm up to temperature before being used to drive the car in any manner (parallel or serial hybrid). But once the engine gets to temperature it ROARS SO LOUD for about 30 seconds no matter the speed you're driving in order to recharge the battery back to ~10% (using the heat and then driving for about three minutes before the engine gets up to temperature depletes the hybrid battery WAY below the 10% threshold level I assume. Because it sounds like the Clarity puts the engine at full power to recharge the hybrid battery at all costs to maintain a healthy battery and keep it from reaching too low.). I would say that is the Charity's downfall in my opinion, the loud and harshness of the engine after needing to charge battery or drive vehicle in cold climate after start up. I wish it was like the Volt and could start the engine while pre heating the car with no battery charge so it wouldn't then operate at 6,000 rpm it sounds once it gets to temperature on the road. It is also an inconvenience to not be able to preheat or precool the cabin unless plugged in to a 240v charger or have a battery charge. Don't see why the Clarity can't start engine and use its generated electricity to cycle on and off like normal to then heat/cool the cabin.

[@ChrisLawrenceRebel]

My theory is that Honda doesn't allow the Clarity to cut on the gas engine while preconditioning as a safety measure to avoid potential carbon monoxide poisoning if the car is started in a closed garage. I can see people starting preconditioning with 5-10% SOC thinking it's safe to do so in an enclosed garage, and the Clarity switching to the gas engine a few minutes in and someone who doesn't expect that to happen getting a very unhealthy dose of CO before the 30-minute climate cutoff kicks in.

[@shahadataziz1277]

Excellent explanation as usual!

[@nickgeorgie1957]

I don’t know what do you do for a living, but I strongly believe that you should become a professor teaching this kind of things. Clear, concise, complete. No bla blas, just what is necessary. A big thank you! Nick from Greece.

[@av6344]

people that have this deeper understanding of their sujbect usually wnat to get paid more for their commitment and teaching dont pay that well.

[@adjutant]

So, it's an EV car with an on-board ICE generator, that turns hybrid highway speeds. interesting

[@KarrasBastomi]

Just like a trains locomotive. Traditionally this system called diesel-electric motive system.

[@williamwheaton8117]

Just like a Chevy Volt ;P The idea is golden, it's a pity it doesn't sell better

[@afcgeo882]

@@KarrasBastomi Locomotives have direct Diesel drive?

[@afcgeo882]

@@williamwheaton8117 The idea is actually pretty poor. A Diesel, running at low RPMs would make a far more efficient source of generator fuel, and the low final gear reduction ratio makes the engine rev far too high at highway speeds, making it loud and less efficient, while putting extra strain on the engine parts. What it needs is a Diesel power plant (NA) and a tiny CVT for final gear ratios… say two of them, one for 40-60mph and one even lower, for above 60mph speeds.

[@KarrasBastomi]

@@afcgeo882 no. Most diesel locomotive are diesel-Electric type

[@gerryzub]

Well, as an owner of the Insight I need to tell you about the real world. The Insight crushes the Prius at lower speeds, say 45 and under. It will get 65 mpg easily and consistently depending on the terrain your driving. At higher speeds, 65 to 70 the Prius will beat the Insight. The Insight does not like high speeds at all. The clutch often disengages at highway speeds to generate more power for the electric motor to consume. The engine drones on loudly.

[@benholdaway7570]

Interesting. My Accord hybrid crushes my wife's Prius above 65 mph but is no better in city driving.

[@aka7kak8]

At high speeds clutch frequent disengages are there by i-mmd design, to get extra percent of mpg by pushing engine to optimum rev and torque zone via extra load from generator. Then stoping engine and driving on battery. About every minute cycles. Although makes sense and most likely also can be used in toyota hybrids too, raises question on battery and clutch life expectancy for those extra percents to show in specs. I would prefer it optionally disabled.

[@attilakhan4606]

@@aka7kak8 Hello, I have a question. Is the e-cvt transmission used in this new 1.5 cc Honda Jazz exactly the same system as the e-cvt used in the 1.8 cc Toyota Corolla sedan or is it a different system? The reason why I asked this was they said that the risk of deterioration of the e-cvt system used in Corolla is less than the normal CVT. Do you think we will have problems with the e-cvt gearbox if we buy Jazz?

[@aka7kak8]

@@attilakhan4606 toyotas hybriddrive or honda e-cvt (i-mmd) both are likely to be much more reliable than regular cvt. However honda by design using clutch in 80-120kmh range to periodically connect ICE directly to wheels, thats a every light wear due to matched rotation speeds but still a candidate for mechanical fail in long run. I prefer honda hybrid due to comfort in the city driving, but toyotas hybrid is more efficient

[@attilakhan4606]

@@aka7kak8 yes but someone says toyota hybrid may have longer life thats why i wonder as both car very expensive in my country i need to choose one which is lower risky about having problem technically

[@markuslangguth7315]

Great explanation, thanks!

[@ashishpatel621]

Hi Alex, Great video!! Very easy to understand. Do you have video of Toyota hybrid system? Do you have video on planetary gears system? Thank you for your creating quality contents.

[@thiagobolinha9272]

i would love to see a review of the acura rlx

[@alliejr]

Thiago Watanabe Check his channel. Alex has one.

[@thiagobolinha9272]

@@alliejr i saw that one (2018), but i was talking about the 2020 or 2021 if possible

[@michaelgrant5258]

@@thiagobolinha9272 Same car. Why bother? No one's buying them anyway.

[@jeffjo8732]

It actually is pretty easy to make a block diagram of the system, although it does miss one physical aspect of the layout. That may be why Alex says it is difficult to diagram. It emphasizes a point I think Alex is leaving out; the one that Ben Holdaway hinted at, but didn't explain in depth. While showing his diagram at 5:10, Alex says that enabling the clutch allows the engine to drive the wheels "without involving either electric motor." This is effectively true (but literally false) for the smaller one he called the generator. The generator is still connected to the engine, and spins with it. But it is disconnected electrically, so it spins freely and has no affect on the drivetrain. Not only is it false for the drive motor, it is impossible. The moving part of that motor, called the rotor, is actually one of the gears that transfers mechanical power to the wheels. (The 0.805 gear ratio Alex mentions is between the gear that drives the rotor, and the countershaft.) "Parallel hybrid mode" is accomplished by applying electromagnetic force to that rotor. By reversing that effect, the motor turns into a generator and is used to charge the battery in parallel mode. When cruising at "gentle speeds," the engine runs at a higher level of power than is needed to maintain speed, but that is more efficient. So the motor will pull the excess power off of the drivetrain to charge the battery. Two simple corrections will make Alex's diagram more accurate: mechanical power is sent from the clutch to the motor, not directly to the wheels. And electrical power can flow in either direction between the motor and the battery. Two other minor corrections are possible, to represent other modes of operation. Regenerative braking is done by the motor, so power can flow from the wheels to it. And the generator acts as the starter motor, powered by the battery.

[@philipmanolas2270]

Spot on comments. Alex has read about the system but seems to me he has not totally comprehend it.

[@jeffjo8732]

@@philipmanolas2270 I think he comprehends it well enough, but suffers from one of my pet peeves (that I'm trying to help him to see). HEV operation is too often explained in terms of the results, instead of the design goals. For example, "HEVs charge their batteries with regenerative braking" is a result, and quite true. But it is not the only way, nor the most important design goal. The myth that HEVs don't gain efficiency when cruising on the highway, which Alex perpetuates here, is based on thinking it is the most important way. It's just harder to explain that the main goal is to run the engine at a higher efficiency. The Accord/CR-V accomplishes this by running its engine as close to 2000 rpm and 35 HP as it can, where it is over 40% efficient. When this engine speed and power does not correspond to car speed and drag in parallel mode, the car changes to serial mode to stay near 40% efficiency. It could drop below 30% if it stayed in parallel mode. That's why the 80% electrical efficiency figure Alex cites isn't as important as he claims; 40%*80% is still greater than 30%. For comparison, the Camry/RAV4 has a larger engine that gets 40% thermal efficiency near about 2700 rpm and 65 HP. I can't claim to know how well it stays near this 40%, but it has to be harder since it would have to charge the battery at 2 to 3 times the rate the Accord/CR-V does on the highway. So I believe the 80% electrical efficiency Alex mentions has a similar drop in engine thermal efficiency for those Toyotas. But I don't claim to know for certain, only that they get similar mileage so it seems reasonable.

[@weffy93]

Amazing explanation!!! Thank you

[@shaynealexis3516]

Great description of the Accord hybrid. Great car, fun to drive. The RLX sport hybrid 2020 was irresistible because the accord. Would like to understand the Acura more. Thank you

[@jeffjo8732]

Here's the corrected math Alex asked for at about 8:00. I'm including lots of details you can skip if you want to. The outer diameter of a tire on my Accord Hybrid is about 25 inches. This means it takes (5280*12)/(25*pi)=807 tire revolutions to go one mile. On my 2017 CR-V, it is 28.5 inches. I don't know what the hybrid CR-V has. The O.D. gear ratio is 0.805; the final drive ratio is 3.421. In Engine Drive, my Accord takes 0.805*3.421*807=2222 engine revolutions per mile. For every 1000 rpms, the car will be going (1000*60)/2222=27 mph. (On larger CR-V tires, this could go up to 30 mph). Check: According to Honda, the ICE is most efficient at 2000 rpms and about 75% throttle, which is 33.7 horsepower. This is 54 mph on my hybrid Accord, which is what Alex would call a gentle highway speed. (It has a BSFC of 208.1 g/kWh, which Honda says is 40.8% efficient.) The peak 143 horsepower is reached at 6200 rpm, which is 167 mph (or more with larger tires). The car will never go that fast. So what Alex describes as the the conditions needed for 212 HP *can* *never* *happen*. Not even close. I'm not saying that this isn't the way Honda arrived at 212 horsepower, I'm saying it is a useless number if it was. And I hope the method is different. I'm also not suggesting that the power it does have is insufficient; my Accord reaches 60 mph about a half second sooner than a hybrid Camry with 208 horsepower combined. At 3000 rpm (81 to 90 mph), Honda's data says the BSFC goes down to about 212 g/kWh at about 55 horsepower. This is still above 40% efficient, so this doesn't explain lost mpg at such speeds. But Alex is wrong about one thing: the battery is still used to gain efficiency on the highway, even at speeds above "gentle". I'm not sure why Honda has stopped including this in marketing releases, but it is described in older ones like global.honda/innovation/technology/automobile/hybrid/i-MMD-picturebook.html (watch the video at about 20 seconds in). That 33.7 horsepower is more than my Accord needs to cruise at 54 mph. So the car alternates between splitting the 33.7 HP between propulsion and charging, and running in EV mode. This gains maybe 10 mpg. +++++ Reference: Honda Technical Paper titled "Development of 2.0 L Engine for New Accord Hybrid," Takeshi Wakamatsu, et. al..

[@benholdaway7570]

I've seen some reviews that show the Accord being faster than the Camry, but so what, nobody drags a hybrid. I've noticed that the car alternates between ICE and EV even at 70 to 75 mph.

[@jeffjo8732]

@@benholdaway7570 My point was that it has good power, better that another car which claims 208 HP, no matter how the 212 HP number is calculated. But "Hybrid" does not mean "underpowered," even if "Prius" does. And there are some you could drag.

[@philipmanolas2270]

My guess is that the maximum combined power is only theoretical. They thought they could sell more if they are closer to Toyota's hybrid numbers. They changed this for the latest models. Fit hybrid maximum combined is the same as its traction motor hp.

[@jeffjo8732]

@@philipmanolas2270 Before the 2020 model year, the Fit hybrid used a DCT transmission, not the iMMD system Alex describes here. I don't know its specs. In 2021, they renamed the hybrid version the Jazz, and put the e:HEV badge on it. The engine has 71 kW of power, and the combined total is 90 kW.

[@philipmanolas2270]

@@jeffjo8732 Honda did what i am describing with other models that used the immd transmission, stating a theoretical maximum hp when the system is powered only from the traction motor when you go full throttle.

[@htnowpro]

Great explanation on systems. I'm thinking the Honda clarity is still the best plug in hybrid for 2020.

[@htnowpro]

@80% It's basically fully electric with a gas generator for extended range.

[@htnowpro]

No need for torque converter. Direct electric.

[@freestyleskyline]

Now that im looking at a hybrid for my wife and we're buying an accord im reallt glad i watched this video because i do not like buying things without understanding what im getting . This was amazingly informative and im glad you made it simple enough for people unfamiliar with hybrid technology to understand

[@mahmoody8913]

Thank you! Smart and clear!

[@macgeek2112]

No thunbs down yet... Trolls must be sleeping... Always great videos/reviews, Alex!

[@nc3826]

Apparently, Alex can make even trolls behave.... With insightful posts...

[@thejake8099]

The trolls should have no reason to down vote a video explaining how Honda's IMA works and compares to other hybrids.

[@normt5463]

@@thejake8099 we like that Honda invests in GM for their future. Honda and GM also reportedly expect collaboration to shorten development times of plug-in hybrid powertrains. The Japanese firm expects to gain insight from GM, which it views as more experienced in the field. And GM expects the partnership to give it a competitive advantage over other automakers in the plug-in hybrid segment. It plans to launch its Cadillac CT6 plug-in hybrid luxury sedan before the end of this year, using an adaptation of the 2016 Chevrolet Volt powertrain that is also used without a plug in the 2016 Chevy Malibu Hybrid. www.greencarreports.com/news/1101858_honda-to-cooperate-with-gm-on-plug-in-hybrid-technology

[@EchoSigma6]

New CRV without the turbo and CVT should make for a better CUV. Oil dilution problems from the turbo and peculiar CVT feel could make the product woes of the current CRV a thing of the past.

[@korenwijn]

clear and informative.

[@AB-jk7tw]

Excellent explanation Alex!

[@kartboarder22g17]

This shocks me that they mechanically connect the rear of the CRV vs. just adding a 3rd electric motor for the rear, or even 2 electric motors for the rear to torque vector.

[@kkarllwt]

A lot of new parts to design and build. VS, run what you have ( build ).

[@Kyriaeus]

Just theorycrafting here, but it seems an advantage of Honda's IMMD system is that there is some more freedom in the placement of the traction motor. For instance, a narrower but longer traction motor could be mounted in the central tunnel where the transmission of a longitudinal layout would normally sit, and have it drive either the front, rear, or both axles. This would cut down the width of the "transaxle" portion of the hybrid system, which can still retain a mechanical top gear and clutch pack connected to the front axle. This would make it feasible to package a larger ICE & generator combo if higher performance is desired, and the traction motor would have quite a bit more headroom too to scale up or down. There would probably be space for a 2 or 3-speed gearbox for the traction motor to widen the efficient operating range of the serial hybrid mode, and make the mechanical top gear even taller to improve high-speed cruising. After all, the Lexus multistage hybrid system manages to stuff a 4-speed auto gearbox, 2 motor generators, a planetary gearset, and bellhousing and flywheel all in that space. My conjecture is that Honda's high-speed efficiency is lowered in part due to the fixed ratio between the large traction motor and the wheels. As rotor RPM nears its upper limit there are significant iron losses in PMAC motors as the permanent magnets spin past the stator teeth.

[@KarrasBastomi]

Or honda can slap a second motor on rear axle and called a day. It became a tesla with on board generator. LOL.

[@atotalidiot]

excellent explanation. thanks.

[@thomasvicente6013]

solid explanation, well done

[@Jaymac720]

What was happening with the “129 lb-ft” on the screen? It’s hurting my eyes

[@AAutoBuyersGuide]

Poop. There was a glitch in the video that didn't get caught by the proofreading team.

[@tjsean0308]

Looks like they missed a space on one of the tiles they were switch between to pulse the colors of the power "cables"

[@ElroyMcDuff]

Doctor: "Does it hurt when you do that?" Patient: "Yes." Doctor: "So don't do that."

[@Jaymac720]

ElroyMcDuff don’t do what? Watch the video? Cuz that’s all I was doing

[@kendelion]

It's breathing, it's alive

[@markboyles8191]

Can you do a more in depth explanation of Hyundai’s hybrid system in the Ioniq hybrid?

[@WatsitTooyah]

Yes do this!

[@DarkWoods79]

Thank you for this great and concise information!!!

[@legambaz]

Can't believe how complex Hybrid technology is. And I can't believe how competent you are on this, making this a must watch if I'm buying a HV.

[@brianb-p6586]

This is mechanically much simpler than a conventional transmission.

[@jeremysmith9696]

110mph.... challenge accepted! :-)

[@CoreyJones314]

You can do 110mph in the Accord Hybrids, but the Clarity PHEV is governed to 101mph.

[@a22fc]

Im about to buy a Crv hybrid this month yahooo

[@PaulNaylor3]

What do you like and not like about your hybrid?

[@a22fc]

@@PaulNaylor3 i didnt like that the backseat was small. I also didnt like that the hybrid only kicked in when running at low speeds. I drive mostly on the highway to work. I traded it in for a passport.

[@MauroBrisola]

Thanks for the class.

[@enriquetormos1375]

Excellent presentation !

[@jasonhillgiant]

Is the US getting the new Fit Hybrid? The internet seems to say “no”.

[@yolo_burrito]

Also it’s a single motor DCT transmission.

[@Pikminiman]

I definitely appreciate the performance you get with Honda's hybrid system, and I love that it's so easily transferrable to all-electric cars. However, I drive most of my miles at 75-80 MPH, so the lackluster high-speed efficiency just doesn't cut it for me. Still, I bet this system will be extremely robust and reliable in the long-term.

[@alliejr]

Pikminiman The alleged poor efficiency at high highway speeds is theoretically true, but I’m not sure it’s true in the real world. No cars in this segment have 10 speed transmissions with super high drive ratios. In fact, cars like Prius and RAV4 hybrid are generally more efficient in stop and go and less efficient at high speed. I think Honda made a clever decision in this design. It’s a true EV at low speed but it uses the petrol motor to efficiently cruise at higher speed.

[@Pikminiman]

@@alliejr : I get what you're saying, and I agree Honda's system is a clever design, but I've read quite a few anecdotes about people in my situation (they drive a lot at 75+ MPH) who have test driven the current Honda Insight and the current Toyota Corolla Hybrid. They generally seem to report high-speed efficiency of ~42 MPG on the Insight and ~54 on the Corolla Hybrid while driving the same path. Of course, anecdotal evidence is not conclusive, but a 29% difference in efficiency is enormous.

[@bikingmoments]

alliejr just to correct...add $400 over accord hybrid you’ll get accord 2.0T which does have 10AT. Probably we can expect 2.0T+10AT to get higher mpg at over 90mph vs hybrid lol

[@alliejr]

Pikminiman All fair. I would counter that if you’re goal is maximum efficiency, >75mph driving is not the way to go. Above about 65mph, every car begins to suffer huge aerodynamic losses. Further, there is a HUGE chasm between the driving dynamics of a Corolla and a Civic/Insight. But you’ve made completely fair points.

[@Pikminiman]

@@alliejr : I agree that aerodynamic drag is a big deal at high speed, no matter what vehicle. The best way to optimize efficiency is to simply cruise at 55-60 MPH or so. I do this as often as I can. However, most of my regular trips are 70+ miles, and sometimes I cannot spare the extra minutes to hypermile.

[@brandonliao408]

I've gotten 55 mpg consistently driving the Honda Accord Hybrid here in Florida. An amazing car with an amazing engine.

[@wanger0690]

THANK YOU ALEX!

[@yiyer]

Is this more complex and potentially less reliable than the planetary systems?

[@alliejr]

yiyer It’s much LESS complex, mechanically. That said, Toyota and Ford planetary systems have shown extremely high reliability. I suspect actual reliability will be more a function of component and build quality rather than design.

[@AAutoBuyersGuide]

No, I wouldn't say that. The planetary systems have one gearset but only some of them usee a clutch like this system does. I would say that in terms of complexity they are similar.

[@kens97sto171]

I would say the advantage on the planetary systems is that Toyota has been refining that design since 1997 and they use essentially the same design in all of their hybrids. Although they are not mechanically identical. if you would like to see what the inside of one of them looks like and how they operate I highly recommend taking a look at Weber Automotive on KZbin. He runs a electric vehicle and hybrid vehicle Automotive college in Ogden Utahand has some absolutely fantastic videos on theory of operation and also many disassembly videos. He's got a very thorough set of videos on the Chevrolet bolt EV also.

[@attilakhan4606]

@@AAutoBuyersGuide Hello Alex, I have a question. Is the e-cvt transmission used in this 2021 model new 1.5 cc Honda Jazz exactly the same system as the e-cvt used in the 2019 year 1.8 cc Toyota Corolla sedan or is it a different system? The reason why I asked this was they said that the risk of deterioration of the e-cvt system used in Corolla is less than the normal CVT. Do you think we will have problems with the e-cvt gearbox if we buy Jazz?

[@djp1234]

I wish there was a DIESEL / ELECTRIC hybrid like this.

[@Jaymac720]

DJPelio diesels aren’t popular enough in America to justify it. A European brand like Volkswagen, Peugeot, or Renault may be able to make it viable but petrol electric hybrids are going to remain the most popular

[@djp1234]

Jay Mac I would import it from Europe if I could. It’s insane that people buy gasoline SUV’s here instead of diesel.

[@Jaymac720]

DJPelio diesel has a lot of downsides. It may get better gas mileage but they still pollute more and diesel is more expensive than petrol in most areas. Diesel is really only really shines in big pickup trucks where you’re towing/hauling literally tons of weight. Diesel engines are just more complex and not a good choice for most people

[@MrConor159]

That's a good way to fill up a dpf. A lot of stoping starting and never getting warm is going to create soot that needs to be captured. It can work with a phev but that isn't going to be cheep better off with a bigger battery

[@djp1234]

Conor Nugent it can keep running and charging the battery.

[@jonnykromps9836]

Love the new intro!

[@Sandra-sm5iq]

Thumbs Up Great explanation

[@vistastructions]

New revised intro?

[@hynsum]

that's what i thought, new intro logo...

[@LeoTheShortGuy]

Very awesome.

[@qkhuve]

The cheaper version of Koenigsegg Regera drive train 😎

[@jamesengland7461]

It really makes sense to think of it like that!

[@johndecicco]

Good info, thanks. Can you share the link for the updated CRV hybrid review? Thank you!

[@candogan8049]

best explained and displayed

[@OttKnot2Dew]

My wife enjoys the wine you have on your shelf.

[@normt5463]

Honda and GM also reportedly expect collaboration to shorten development times of plug-in hybrid powertrains. The Japanese firm expects to gain insight from GM, which it views as more experienced in the field. And GM expects the partnership to give it a competitive advantage over other automakers in the plug-in hybrid segment. It plans to launch its Cadillac CT6 plug-in hybrid luxury sedan before the end of this year, using an adaptation of the 2016 Chevrolet Volt powertrain that is also used without a plug in the 2016 Chevy Malibu Hybrid. www.greencarreports.com/news/1101858_honda-to-cooperate-with-gm-on-plug-in-hybrid-technology

[@ericmuijs1938]

Thanks, great explanation!

[@raymondjones7489]

Good show man!

[@SeismicCWave]

Wow, you need to slow down and take a breath!

[@matthewbrightman3398]

Brilliant!! Thanks man.

[@s.l.nicholson4240]

Thank you for the video. I just purchased a 2022 Honda Insight on May 30th. It's now my understanding that production of the Insight ends in June.

[@jeffjo8732]

The 3rd generation Insight is really a Civic with a slightly different look. All they are doing when they redesign the Civic, is making the similarity official by dropping the Insight and replacing it with a Civic Hybrid. I'm guessing this was part of the original plan, to put a clear separation between the (old) IMA hybrid system, which wasn't very successful, and the (new) iMMD hybrid system.

[@s.l.nicholson4240]

@@jeffjo8732: I watched Professor Kelly's video on the system. He was quite impressed with it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/h324eniudtOBmac

[@Goldendad1]

Bravo Alex! As I intend to buy a 2023 CR-V Sport Hybrid as soon as they are released this fall. How about a new video on the new tweaked power plant as it would be very useful to find out about modifications Honda has made. It would especially good to see a comparison of the two systems. Thanks and good job!

[@nhlcfl7733]

Very well explained Alex; an excellent Auto Authority and why I subscribed to your channel some time ago. Even though I am now watching this video in August 2023, it is relevant and helpful I am learning about something other than the design that Toyota introduced and others has emulated. I like the Honda design and perhaps when I'm ready for a new vehicle in a couple years, this vehicle will be as competitive and even against a newer designed RAV4. Best regards Alex, Robert.

[@raymondreiff8170]

Wow as a huge fan of Honda products for most situations, I wish I knew about this updated hybrid system as a mechanic it just makes sense and should bring reliably up to a new level after a few years of perfecting this type of a System 😎👍.

[@jerryrounds8586]

Very good explanation. Perhaps more AV treatments would make it easier to understand.

[@theamazoner4075]

Love the new intro btw.