How Does PlayStation Recover? - PS I Love You XOXO Ep. 207

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After a week of layoffs and cancellations, what’s PlayStation’s next move to right the ship?
00:00:00 - Start
00:00:40 - Welcomes & Housekeeping
00:04:15 - “What’s Up with the Resistance Retribution
00:18:51 - How Does PlayStation Recover After These Layoffs?
01:03:21 - This Week in PlayStation
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[@AlexN798]

Keep this set the heavily produced desk isn’t the same

[@profanddevplaygames]

Looking forward to this. Just commenting that, as an audio listener, seeing the new layout for the show in the physical space for the first time is really neat. I like the vibe.

[@BrienBellJTS]

Guys, everything you said about Naughty Dog is just a bit off, but their studio structure is a bit confusing as is! Neil isn’t Co-President anymore, Evan Wells retired and he’s now Head of Studio and Head of Creative. They announced their studio leadership team in a blog post when Wells announced his retirement. Alison Mori is Studio Manager and Head of Operations. Arne Meyer is Head of Culture and Communications. Christian Gyrling is Head of Technology. Erick Pangilinan and Jeremy Yates are Co-Heads of Art Departments, and Anthony Newman is Head of Production and Design. And Halley Gross is still with Naughty Dog; she was originally hired as co-writer for TLOU2, but she stayed on board after being brought on as full-time Narrative Lead. Kurt Margenau is definitely up there as a Co-Game Director, but not part of the studio leadership team at this time.

[@bigbox1431]

Greg is like "Live Service was a mistake" while Helldivers 2, their first Live Service game, popped off. Ok but that was different meme

[@shubhankar2508]

They've cancelled multiple live service games (Twisted Metal, London Studio's game, TLoU Online, at the very least), and their plan to do 12 live service games got cut in half before the first one even released. Helldivers 2 has been a big success, but that doesn't mean Sony's live service plan has worked out. Outside of the unexpected success of Helldivers, it very plainly hasn't.

[@bigbox1431]

@@shubhankar2508 Hiroki Titoki already said that their "mid to long term plans around Live Service remain unchanged". It sounds to me like they still think it's working out.

[@shubhankar2508]

@@bigbox1431 They've flat out said their plan to release 12 live service games has shrunk down to 6. Doesn't really get much clearer than that, even if they weren't cancelling multiple live service games (which they are).

[@bigbox1431]

@@shubhankar2508 Well, that's false. Their plan to release 12 before FY2025 shrunk down to 6, but only 4 of the other 6 have been cancelled, which means we're still getting 8 in the next 2.5 years. Also Hiroki Titoki said their mid to long term plans regarding Live Service remain unchanged. Sounds like Greg and yourself are ignorant fools.

[@shubhankar2508]

@@bigbox1431 6 is half of 12, and multiple live service games have been cancelled. Simple as that. Sounds like you're being blind on purpose.

[@timbridge9189]

I had a touchscreen laptop for 3 years and didn't know it until i saw my niece tapping the screen one day

[@dukea.5621]

spider-man 2 cost that much bc of a high (necessary) marvel license and profit sharing that Insom does. It's not some baseline amount that every AAA Sony game is gonna cost SM2 $300M. Game budgets are not a black and white thing. especially now. There are ofc over scoping and production mismangement but those top lines games can be made at those budgets bc they now sell upwards of 10M copies. if you feel VR2 was a waste of money, that's fair, but that's also where they were spending and allowing for smaller titles and such.

[@MikeUK]

The reason why market is so worried is because their profit margin is collapsing 12 to 9, now 6. They have to fix it

[@mckenleymason1212]

That's because they spent 3.5 billion dollars buying bungie.

[@DextrousJOE]

What a great episode, awesome talking points. I do feel you all are right what Sony needs is finding more Second Party Smaller games to help with costs of AAA games. However Studio Heads need to ensure these budgets do not balloon like crazy.

[@Juggernaut-IV]

Literally every workout VR app is a beatsaber type boxing game

[@thalunizz21]

Games! Literally just games.😂

[@SweetJandalsBruv]

Ad read "Whether you're a long time Bender" haha

[@dyelon13]

I love love love my AAA naughty dog games. Uncharted 4 and TLOU 2 got me to buy a ps4 and ps4 pro. But I miss having releases like motorstorm, little big planet, all the pixel junks. And where is the astrobot game!

[@danielgordon7936]

Greg keeps using Helldivers 2 as a reference point for having more, smaller, quicker to make games...... but even that game took like 7 years to make! Kinda throws off his entire point unfortunately.

[@MelodicQuest]

Greg hit the nail on the head. You can only spend so much money on projects before you start to see diminishing returns.

[@spazco8669]

@@KingJohnMichael nah, console market crash. The gaming market is bigger and making more money than ever. Consoles have been stagnate for over a decade. In order for growth playstaion has to look beyond the console market.

[@mrchiefbs]

WE DONT NEED GROWTH WE NEEED STEADY GOOD GAMES.

[@chambo4645]

@@mrchiefbswhy would anyone continue to invest into an industry if it’s not growing?

[@tripandfall2379]

I agree but capitalism is intrinsically linked to growth. Tell anyone in business they don't need growth and they'll run you out of town with a pitchfork. @@mrchiefbs

[@96miffy]

Smaller games is the way

[@idionisio]

I’m sure going without a mouse for a few minutes a day will not hinder your efficiency lol

[@bradball42]

This just happened to me because helldivers crashed so hard it turned off my PlayStation then my ps5 fixed itself in under a minute

[@m.g.9334]

you really missing out on asgards wrath 2

[@Gambit2483]

Naughty Dog did what Rocksteady should have done and just dropped Suicide Squad and moved on. Though Rocksteady probably wasn't able to because of corporate suits and now look at their situation.

[@zevzero]

This was a great conversation

[@evanbuchanan3806]

its so weird to me that everyone says the live service push was a big mistake. Did they try to do too much at once, probably. But if they get even half a Fortnite, they can cover costs for so many other games. It seems silly to me to not try to make a live service hit.

[@MaddyGatzka]

PlayStation is fine; how do the humans laid off recover is the question 🫤

[@J_Tevo]

They talk about that on KFGD constantly, this is a PS podcast so they focussed on that side of it here.

[@spazco8669]

playstaion are not fine. Decade low profits and ballooning game budgets have investors and shareholders very concerned. The console market is stagnate and has been for over a decade. Not a good thing for a massive corporation that demands continual growth. Expect a big push into pc and cloud market. The days of a closed ecosystem fueled by exclusives are long gone. Except for nintendo but they are a long way behind the top 4 gaming companies. Tencent are number 1. No consoles, no exclusives. profit up 24% yoy. Playstation profits down 50%.

[@cl4-tpgaming]

By leaving the creative industry and choosing a career path with actual stability and no historical systemic abuse of creatives. I still have no idea why people would chose to be an actor, musician, game dev, filmmaker, when only 2% of them find actual success, at the end of the day there job is in art, and you can never properly give value to an artists work in their opinion.

[@cl4-tpgaming]

@@spazco8669where’d you get that number? Down 50%?, there stock dropped 49% but that isn’t tied to profits, this response stinks of “I know better than you” and I don’t think you do, since your a fucking nobody, and we’re watching the people who actually no what the hell there talking about discuss it, your are not needed in the conversation😂

[@jjkazempour]

What if Blessing just kept bringing up obscure Konami facts?

[@thegazanator]

Just how short is bless?

[@AlPacino2502]

2019 concrete genie 2020 astro and dreams 2021 returnal 2024 helldivers 2 They have invested in it... but yeah we need more of these and maybe less of the super cinematic AAAs. Also, more lost legacys and miles morales and ratchet and clanks

[@josephmcclain4291]

I would love to see PlayStation bring back resistance and infamous?🎮🔥🎮

[@sithemackem]

Could really get behind these. Also would love a developer to look into one or two forgotten IPs (Tenchu, Nightmare Creatures, Red Faction).

[@SenorRaulito]

We need ps5 remasters at the very least

[@seaneno1230]

Killzone, Socom, Warhawk. All amazing games that they should bring back

[@mus247365]

"Slow and steady growth" that's not what shareholders want unfortunately

[@tripandfall2379]

I own all 5 PlayStation consoles and the 5 is definitely the one I'm least fond of. The amount of exclusives to get me off my PC and Switch simply aren't enough. It collects dust for the most part and I bought it day 1...

[@dps0610]

Is it me or does there seem to be a delay in controller input across the board for it?

[@tripandfall2379]

@@dps0610 I can't say I've noticed. Any game in particular?

[@MumonguGaming]

As you both haven't played "Brothers" why not Stream it guys

[@jeffcarrier9808]

Blessing! NOT ONLY can you buy the psp Premium games for $10, but also if you owned digital on PSP you already own them on PS5!

[@exodore2000]

What do kind of funny think of sweet baby inc?

[@Blame.Gaming]

Greg Playstation games going day on date on pc. If you like it or not.

[@spazco8669]

yup. Doesn't take a genius to see that there's no growth in a market that's been stagnate for a decade.

[@seaneno1230]

Bring back Warhawk! One is the best multiplayer games.

[@battalk5126]

The problem is the asinine budgets on their single player games. Spider man 2 cost 315 million with 150 million in marketing. That’s way too much for a game that has no microtransactions or secondary income coming in from the title.

[@user-hx6wc3id2p]

I miss Kevin butler

[@CosmicMurmur]

A lot of hot air that could have been summarised in two succinct paragraphs. Yada Yada Yada

[@dps0610]

Greg, no texting and twitter in the car. Come on.

[@noonitubes8457]

Yadayadayada da dada dada

[@NazKidA]

24:14 Ya... no way arrowhead will sell their studio after all this shit storm

[@draculathevampire934]

Ps5 is missing THE feel of playstation games like medieval we aren't seeing smaller based games with icons that make playstation playstation

[@jermelpurse3018]

Well, we do have to be honest. Sony has been successful. In some regards, but they’ve also blown a lot of money. There are some items accessories Sony has released that really shouldn’t have saw the light of day. The second VR headset I’m pretty sure that’s at the top of the list. I understand what they were trying to do but they tried to push into gaming when it came to VR and if you really want to know where VR will shine it’s not with a video game. Not to do gaming with a VR headset but you really want to get to the point where a person can put the headset on and learn something or something. That’s what you want you want future surgeons to put a headset on and be able to see the eyes of an actual surgeon do you want pilots to be able to put headset on and see the actual pilot you want and then you can sell your headset to gamers where you have a small market market but you can sell it to industry that should’ve been the plan and instead the plan was to sell it to gamers first And then develop it for industry. It should’ve been developed for industry at the start. The second item that saw the day didn’t cost them much to make it perhaps make sure that handheld works in the future. You can’t just sell that thing and say it’ll work for one generation it’s gotta work next generation as well and that’s where cost come in because you’re going to have to devote resources to making sure that handheld works in the future on other platforms. That’s money that could’ve been better spent. Lastly going back to the VR headset a lot of money was spent to develop games for that headset or two make sure games that were already on other VR platforms could work on a PlayStation headset again wasted. That was wasted win. There was a problem with return on investment you are not making enough money on the games you’re selling and then you’re spending that money which you’re having trouble acquiring to begin with on other stuff that’s not going to earn you anymore money.

[@taylorscott1849]

It’s really sad to say this, but if they truly wanted to Invest in live service games, they should have invested in them and made them launch titles for the ps5. Or maybe partnered with studios to make those smaller live service games exclusive to their platform. It’s far to late now for them to try and release even 6 live service games at all.

[@mckenleymason1212]

Why does Blessing keep acting like the Insomniac games art making a lot of money? Spiderman 2 made $700 million in revenue in 2 months!

[@robpeeps2850]

where is janet?

[@AndrewB2189]

She's no longer on PSILY. She's still does Minnmax and another podcast I think

[@mrchiefbs]

I bought a ps4 for the games Xbox refused to deliver. I really hope they don't fall into the Xbox 1 trap.

[@chriswave1992]

Just release games.

[@StickyBoxers]

I honestly truely believe Ryan's time as CEO has been so detrimental and backwards thinking that it is going to be years before Playstation studios and the console itself can recover from.

[@LonglivePS]

You do know that the PS5 is the fastest selling console ever for them and that they just recently reported record in yearly revenue? The layoffs and failed profit projections are happening industry wide, unfortunately no other CEO could prevent that from happening. Jim Ryan has been a really solid CEO business wise, fanboys are just too blinded to realize that.

[@shinobus.2654]

​@@LonglivePS All this is a blatant lie. PS5 is still behind the PS4 globally and likely will never catch up or beat it, what you're likely mistaking is that it's slightly ahead but only within the United States again not globally. Their recent earning reports did not have record profits at all, in fact it was the exact opposite where near EVERYTHING was down and they had to lower their console forecast by a whopping 4 million. This is what caused the company's value to plummet by a whole $10 billion.

[@shamous755]

​@@shinobus.2654what he said was all true. Revenue was a record not profit. What you are likely mistaking is they are the same which they are not. Missed selling 25 million but that was a really ambitious target. I suggest you settle down with the blatant lie accusations.

[@LonglivePS]

@@shinobus.2654 PS5 is ahead of PS4 in America and Europe, with a global pandemic and chip shortages in the first two and half years of its life cycle, it’s honestly impressive. They just reported profit revenue, yes not profit because as I mentioned profit is mostly down across all the industry after covid and global economy, no any other CEO could’ve changed that.🤷🏻‍♂️

[@shinobus.2654]

@@shamous755 It's not a record if it's still failing to keep up with the PS4, the 25 million forecast was only given because that's what it needed to actually exceed the PS4 globally. And again, their value plummeted by 10 billion because their earnings were at a decade low, so again there are no "records" being made here.

[@MrHitman2284]

They don't need to recover their projected profits didn't get there they are making a profit

[@ehernandez6328]

Neil Druckman like a Hideo Kojima.......hahahaha., man I love stand up Comedy.

[@joshuabarnett88]

Is the stand up comedy in the room right now? Druckman has made games that rate higher than anything kojima has ever made.

[@SenorRaulito]

Both see themselves as auteurs who take a long time on their games. More time means more money, comparison makes sense.

[@tonydub98]

When did the internet’s 180 on Neil Druckman happen?

[@joshuabarnett88]

@@tonydub98 when fragile masculinity turned every "gamer" into experts on writing despite them never once being able to ACTUALLY provide real arguments for why TLOU 2 is bad other than "Lazy writing" which it very much was not. The can't handle their fragile white male hero to have been the victim without claiming woke and calling him "cuckman" it's pathetic

[@Shadibadi]

@@joshuabarnett88 MGS1 defined the genre that Neil lives in, Hideo set the stage for mature games and story telling, if you think Neil has created stories that are on par with MGS1, MGS2, MGS3, MGS4, games that are decades old, let alone MGSV and Death Stranding, then you’re a fool that needs to take Neil’s knob out of his mouth. Disgruntled old man who learns to love again through a replacement for his daughter, angry girl who learns that revenge is a cycle. Both are simple, base stories that are executed well, but both are stories that can’t stand on the same ground as the creativity and avant garde story telling that Hideo has exhibited throughout his career.

[@bombeard]

"we are playstation and we are games" only worked for PS4 because xbox at the time was the opposite. If PS changes course today and says we aim to give you a diverse batch of smaller games, they will lose the edge they have over xbox. Xbox is the one with gamepass and pentiment and hi fi rush. Playstation shouldn't try to beat them at their own game if it means having to give up top tier blockbusters it's known for.

[@SenorRaulito]

The focus should be on the 900 laid off, not Sony.

[@AlwayzFresh]

The one thing saving Sony was that they kept all their in house talent. Most AAA studios end up firing and pushing out all the talented developers and eventually cant even make their own sequels due to inexperience which leads to bomb after bomb as the fans reject their garbage. Often the most veteran employees are the ones fired as they have the most impact on money saved(due promotions, due raises ets). The hire up they work, the less you have to fire to make bank for executives. The lower level the employee is, the more you need to let go to have the same results. Sony firing their talent leads them down this common AAA implosion studio road. Nobody left at Bioware even knows how to make an RPG. Nobody left at Dice knows how to make an FPS. Insane that these studios end up firing the very folks they rely on. Now Sony's developers are joining the list.

[@p.ukem0n327]

Day 1 pc releases and Xbox/Switch after a year would instantly make them billions and increase their profit margins to 20%. The console wars are dead anyway, just release your game everywhere.

[@thatalleycat]

Layoffs were bound to happen

[@josephmcclain4291]

The best gaming podcast in the world 🔥🔥🎮🎮🔥🔥

[@deedeepilgrim6658]

Recover from what, making money?

[@shamus3477]

This whole console generation has been a waste of time. No true next gen game hss been released still making ps4 games lol. Its the remake and remaster generation. games we played years ago. For example the only work naughty dog have done is re release the last of us part 1 and 2.

[@LoveFactorySweatShop]

They can save PSVR2 if they allow AO games on the PSN store. Porn is the only way you can make VR profitable.

[@MoFoTRex93]

For starters be like Xbox and put your games on PC day 1.

[@younglord161]

you’re not getting the same quality day n date. we already seen that with xbox multiple times, especially with Redfall… gave console players who own the premium xbox (series x) with a 30fps port.

[@erodotosmiltiadous]

Regarding Bend, at the 48 min mark, just a shout out to Days Gone, a real Playstation gem that more people need to play and make up their own minds on it!

[@SkullSnax]

I go back to when I bought the PS5 and other than Cyberpunk, there was nothing I wanted to play that felt "next-gen" for over a year when God of War Ragnarok came out, and thats stayed more or less the same. There's not really been that many big seminal games that are fun and not just following the trends. Lots of Soulslikes, Roguelikes, "Open World ARPG/Crafter/Time sink", and then a bunch of live services. And okay, pandemic hit the industry. But really feels like the industry is sinking time into games that don't have anything, lots of soulless games where it's so obvious that money is what they want. It's too much stale mechanics and formulas, too homogeneous. And I'll keep saying it. Split up your big, unwieldy dev teams, focus on innovation and creativity, make more small games, take more small bets. Get some of that spark back, so in 5 years when you've had a few successes and you see new innovation in gameplay, you can have somebody take an idea and blow it up bigger. Helldivers itself is that. They made a game, it was successful in a niche, and now they've got a big Sony budget to make that but bigger. There are games that have come out in the last couple of years that are small and imaginative but so few and far between, and there is something there to be blown up bigger. If you want to produce more of that you have to invest in that.

[@nolifebr]

Sony's margins are historically low > Solution > Launch 3 or 4 games like Concrete Genie and Gravity Rush (which are known as huge system sellers that sold millions and millions of copies). By the way, PlayStation wouldn't have any big games this year even if they had never pursued this whole live services initiative. Naughty Dog wouldn't have a new game ready "just" 4 years after TLOU2, Bend wouldn't create a new IP in 5 years, Bluepoint wouldn't create its first original content in less than 5 years and so on.

[@vanharbi2438]

You guys need to put segment on to shit on PSVR2 and call It. PSVR I HATE YOU ew ugh ew ugh

[@skolchance7244]

Hard to take a Playstation pod serious that can't be bothered to even care about PSVR 2. This industry can be a joke sometimes. Jaded as hell. this isn't just KF but man are they one of the best at it. But hey Like, Subscribe and fund them!.

[@brownistani]

I like PlayStation. I don’t like VR. I think people like me are a sizeable group, if not the majority of PlayStation enthusiasts. KF’s disinterest in PSVR2 is perfectly valid.

[@capn_capacitor]

Sony gotta give people something to care about. You’re blamin’ the wrong people

[@spazco8669]

bringing it to pc is huge news.

[@jmxarcx1173]

Playstation set that tripple A expectation for themselves. Vast majority of gamers enjoy smaller games look at last Epoch, palworld, and helldivers. Playstation dug a hole for themselves and now they are constantly losing money. Which will result in more studios closing. Layoffs and canceled projects because the company cant afford them.

[@jmxarcx1173]

@@KingJohnMichael Not first party. nor is it a Tripple A game. Its a smaller double A game which is the point.

[@m.g.9334]

your take on psvr2 is really bad, Sony didnt even make a big push towards psvr.

[@Covette01]

That’s the problem. Sony spent the money to make it and then just tossed it in the dumpster to be forgotten about

[@m.g.9334]

@@Covette01 nope they invested in the future. They made the product for the hardcore and did it without a loss, this is why it cost so much. Sony knows this, they are not stupid 😑

[@Abefroman3]

52:53 the market has changed. Consoles are not the be all end all, console sales have plateaued PlayStation needs to branch out and become a bigger publisher. Put games on PC and Xbox and bring in extra revenue to fund the expensive shit.

[@mrchiefbs]

What's the answer to Sony? Make good games that the devs are inspired by. They will make money. Betting on a franchise because a previous entry did well doesn't work for video games because that's art and passion- not investments from corpos. So stupid to make a ton of live service games because you're meant to invest your time and money in one ecosystem by design... so much wrong with that decision.

[@mattmas6628]

I have 2 gaming laptops for emulator, the Series X & S, and a PS5. I considered buying a second PS5 for my backup gaming room with the S, but I realized I had nothing to play/buy on the PS5 besides TLoU2 No Return. Xbox had no problem selling me a second console bc of back compat

[@mustang750r]

Have you tried playing other games other than The Last of Us?

[@KadeemG61]

Fix PlayStation Plus and their growing list of lackluster monthly games. Oh, and reduce the awful 12-Month Premium tier back down to $100.

[@mustang750r]

Premium was never $100. You're thinking of the Extra tier.

[@smok3sho587]

Wow these clowns finally talked about it

[@MichaelM28]

Trashbox forever last place with no games 🤣🤣🤣

[@erinlime]

If games become shorter and lower-fidelity to become more realistic budget-wise, then my only hope is that these games better start costing less to purchase too. I'm not buying a 25- to 30-hour game for 70 USD.

[@sdmoore89]

I disagree I'll pay 70 for a shorter game if it's phenomenal. I'm tired of paying for these long ass games and not beating them because they become boring and repetitive.

[@hododod246]

Yeah, essentially you are one of the problem with the video game industry needs to solved.

[@tripandfall2379]

Some of the best games ever made are 8-10 hours long.

[@erinlime]

@@tripandfall2379 My point is price, not hours played. Nobody's paying 70 bucks for an 8-hour game. Why should we pay 70 for 30.

[@tripandfall2379]

​@@erinlimegames like Resident Evil 2 remake (for example) will absolutely release for $70 in the future and do well at that price. I realize not everyone is the same, but as you get older you have more money and less time. The last thing I need is a bloated Ubisoft style 100 hour game for $70. I wouldn't play it for free. A 20-30 hour game like Spiderman 2 on the other hand....

[@mustang750r]

It's funny how they shit on PSVR2 and play crap games but don't play and celebrate games like Ancient Dungeon and Legendary Tales.

[@skolchance7244]

It's getting so transparent that they are just lacking in this area. LT is a legit masterpiece but it's not gorgeous so.. fuck it right.. Well maybe if they were being paid to fake interest by Sony. lol

[@mustang750r]

@@skolchance7244 yeah when it comes to graphics and the KF crew it's always a weird subject. They would legit play a game on the Quest and be perfectly fine meanwhile the PS VR 2 version of the same game will have PC equivalent graphics settings and run better but they don't want to play it. They also like to point out and praise games that use the haptic triggers and vibration on the PS5, but completely ignore the VR headset that has those features in games that they play on the quest.

[@hododod246]

How are people who laid off recover? Who cares about playstation.

[@FreeboFTW]

The subscriber count has stagnated slightly below 300k for several years at this point with little innovation or creative content left...company never recovered after the gross colin betrayal but you guys havent figured that out yet...the day LSM passes 300k you guys should consider closing up shop and retiring this brand.