How Games Get Weapon Attachments Wrong - Loadout

[@EonHSD]

Whoever had the idea to get Jonathan on board for all of these videos: you’re the man. What a fantastic series this all has become.

[@AlexKS1992]

If it wasn’t for Jonathan I wouldn’t watch this channel. Same can be said with IGN and Ian McCollum.

[@elunmusk8566]

I love

[@JamesBond007Nejc]

Just rename the channel it's not even gamespot anymore. 90 % videos are about this kid and his gun collection

[@dancing_odie]

single handedly saved the channel

[@ColonizerChan]

Ngl, they would have had a better opinion if they had hop from tfb for this episode A museum curator vs someone who actually uses em

[@jaronfranklin1]

Tarkov has the best customization by far but it does lead to very clear metas. So I understand why most developers prioritize balance over realism

[@invictusangelica]

The thing you must consider is that in Tarkov, there is another factor to balance weapons beside their performance: their prices. A TOZ is gonna cost significantly less than your meta AK-103 or .308 MDR. If the devs do have this in mind, I bet that many games will have more realistic and yet still somehow balanced guns.

[@sylaconnocalys8443]

I mean it’s also realistic that metas would exist if you think about it. In the real world, certain accessories and weapons are more popular amongst firearms users because those choices are the most effective tools for the job.

[@RVered]

It's also fair to say that Tarkov's system isn't as cringeworthy, to me at least, as CoD Vanguard's. There is a certain level of respect to historical accuracy I'm looking for in a WW2 shooter. And when everyone is running around with pimped-out gold STG 44s, it begs the question of what's the point of the WW2 setting if you're so blatantly anachronistic.

[@TehIdiotOne]

You're not wrong, but in Tarkov you have to weigh performance to cost, so there's always a spot for atleast 2-3 attachments in the tier below the best one.

[@Axl4325]

@@invictusangelica thissss. Games where you can`t just get any gun at any time are balanced because of that most of the time, you can have guns that are outright better but rarer, but in a CoD game you have a TOZ going against a modern AA12 so there has to be balance as both guns are equally accessible. In games like Tarkov or Stalker you can have better but more difficult to acquire weaponry and it`s totally fine

[@PeTTs0n88]

I could easily listen to Jonathan Ferguson briefly review every single gun in existence, and I probably wouldn't realize how many hours, days, weeks had gone by. Always a treat to see these videos!

[@No-qc7rz]

Same lol

[@JarlBSoD]

You should look at Ian of Forgotten Weapons :)

[@PeTTs0n88]

@@JarlBSoD Definitely a fan of Gun Jesus, praise be. ;)

[@talos111]

MikeBurnFIre gun rants are a bit different, its an army small arms repairman ranting about guns he finds (mostly in New Vegas), but still worth checking out.

[@badrobotNG]

Months....months gone by.

[@cbinder46]

9:28, M1 Garand with the sound of the empty Embloc clip ejecting from the firearm even though the modifications to the gun made it a magazine fed gun...Vanguard was on another level of incompetence with the details

[@yohancesamuel2066]

the stg 44 has a removed stock which gives it less recoil but IRL there's recoil spring inside it

[@devilin100]

it would maybe, with alot of machining, be possible if the magazine feed clips through the bottom which could then eject. It could only be an engineering nightmare though. IIRC one of the Japanese machineguns fired from striper clips that were fed into the gun by a spring loaded hopper, but it was so unreliable it was usually removed and fed by hand.

[@TN-ci4ox]

They made an M14

[@endjfcar]

@@devilin100 That machine gun was not magazine fed.......... Yes they used clips but they were not magazines like you see from the cursed M1.

[@impofan6915]

@@yohancesamuel2066 i don't understand how can removing stock reduce recoil in the first place in ANY case

[@ParagonFury]

I feel like customizing guns in old conflicts like WW1 and WW2 defeats the purpose, since part of the enjoyment of those settings is being limited to the weapons and items they had available back then and how that affects the way you approach firefights and gameplay. Because if you allow the customization we have now you wind up with what we get in like say, Vanguard where it's just MW2019 wearing a WW2 costume.

[@magnusmrk4614]

There is a game called Verdun if you want wwi realism. Plenty of other games to, though unfortunately they dont have cod or bfs 1000 zillion budgets..

[@Welshmanshots]

When Battlefield 1 launched a lot of OG BF fans didn't like the fact that the gun attachments were so stripped down because the game took place in WW1, If Vanguard shipped with less customisation i think fans would of hated the game even more, although it does have too many options.

[@deathbringer9893]

@@Welshmanshots this people love to custimize there weapons i know multipul people who spend hours in the gunsmith but dont use em if you couldnt barbie up your guns in cod they would lose alot more cash

[@shovel662]

@@Welshmanshots I hated the smg’s so I just ran around as a medic because I wanted iron sights, and didn’t heal anyone. I was part of your pain. You’re welcome.

[@awilk418]

The problem as I see it is that developers have realized that a large portion of the fanbase really just likes their games with the same variety of online play but with a new coat of paint. They switch up the setting and background story to appeal to players who might be interested in things like fighting in WW1 or the near future, but they feel required to maintain at least as many features from previous titles in order to appeal to those players that just want to run and gun online. I think the only way to really resolve that would be to set up different servers with some being dedicated to the classic COD style of gameplay with no focus on realism and then others focused on simulation with limitations on the players to maintain more authenticity. I doubt that would be very profitable for the amount of work involved though so I don't see it happening.

[@DarkSoulSama]

I wouldn't mind putting an ACOG on a "double-edged sword". If I happen to have to throw it, that extra range could come in handy. ಠ_ಠ

[@Real_MisterSir]

Acog: +10 to weapon range Soldier: Throws Sword with acog mounted 10 meters further Profit

[@RealNikoPlush]

Suppressed swords would not make people scream when they are killed

[@LET4M4RU]

the mobile game Girls Frontline gives us a girl that has a Tomahawk equipped with an ACOG. So we have that

[@synthgal1090]

you need the scope to end him rightly

[@GameFuMaster]

@@RealNikoPlush can I put an extended magazine on a sword?

[@Dishonoredeamon]

Anyone else curious how that vanguard M1 Garand could make the ping sound of the clip extraction, while it was using a drum mag?

[@EllieBergeron92]

I bursted out laughing, and then proceeded to cry a bit.

[@Fadaar]

@@EllieBergeron92 i think i had a mild brain hurt moment

[@armageddon_gaming]

I wanted to die when I witnessed that monstrosity

[@danshakuimo]

There's a speaker installed that's dedicated specifically to make that sound for nostalgia reasons

[@supremesloth105]

I would hate to be this affected by a ping in a game or a reflex in a ww2 game, weird to me to care that much

[@arcane_luzion]

I love Jonathan, whle he still offers his professional opinions on the weapons and their realism, he actually understands that video games are games and are supposed to be fun.

[@slothfulcobra]

I was actually under the impression that weapon customization in videogames was less about real-world military uses of add-ons for guns, and more about civilian gun hobbyism, where you have all the freedom in the world to fiddle with your gun, but it tends to be less about mechanical advantages and more about aesthetics It is a neat idea to be able to tinker with your primary tools in videogames to get different effects, but I don't really feel like realistic gun customization gives as much diversity and variety to experience as like what you can do to customize a car or computer.

[@JarlBSoD]

Well there are special forces units tha can more or less pick and chose what to use, the reson the customisation is not as massive as in games is probably because real soldiers will figure out what works best and what dosn't work and when they find what works they stick with that, that is allso why you can se some realy weird stuf at times, because it works. And i am pretty sure there are not that many that would get the idea of swaping accesories on the fly while under fire in RL :)

[@empathicparadox6041]

EXACTLY, the freedom to create the bulkiest bad boy you can think of. It’s a game, why be limited by reality when the whole idea of gaming is escapism, fantasy, fiction….

[@DirtyGuerrilla]

"It tends to be less about mechanical advantages and more about aesthetics" couldn't be further from the truth and I really wish it wasn't the case. Majority of people playing competitive shooters will have their guns set up the same way, and it's always to min-max stat bonuses and never just to make a cool looking gun

[@jacobstaten2366]

It really depends. Put them in a vice and they'll all be just as accurate if they have the same barrel length and caliber. However a lighter rifle, better optics, or a better trigger will make a difference in real life.

[@JarlBSoD]

@@jacobstaten2366 Depends on what you mean, 2 of the same rifles will be close to just as accurate (Asuming we go by same manufacturer and modle here). 2 rifles of diferent makes, not neciserly (and 2 rifles of completly diferent models ie AR or SCAR even less so) , there is more that affects accuracy than calibre and barrel lenght. Reciever strenght, the way the barrel is fitted, is the barrel free floated or not, what material is the barell made of, what thickness is the barrel, Rifling twist. barrel harmonics etc etc. And yes, there is actually such a thing as a to light rifle. A ligher rifle will have more felt recoli making it harder to make follow up shots, this can to an extent be compensated by a compensator but then we are in on a whole other topic of pros and cons of those.

[@Burnzymister]

Not to mention the idea the you can just slap a scope on a rifle without zeroing it and make a shot out to a few hundred yards.

[@bradenmchenry995]

I’ll give them the benefit of doubt because modern optics can retain zero after taking them off

[@Eagle-EX]

@@bradenmchenry995 This is true, however I feel he geared it more towards finding a random optic and expecting it to be zeroed. Rather than one you have already zeroed to that weapon.

[@dutyrover946]

well most games shoot from the scope not the end of the barrel.

[@Burnzymister]

@@dutyrover946 ha. True. Strangely that's a good point.

[@xzraiderzx308]

@@dutyrover946 funnily enough the two games I can think of that don't: BF4 and PUBG, have proper zeroing functionality on their scopes

[@Metzelbarsch28]

They wouldn't have to put holo sights into every 'historical' game, if they could just render ironsights realistically. Anyone that has looked through irons IRL knows you hardly see anything, yet in games the rear sight posts are soo obtrusive. Edit: what i meant is: Videogame irons = bad Real irons = better Videogame holo = better If video irons were like real irons, -> video irons good -> no need for holo in ww2

[@Kila-Innova]

A good example being any M1 Garand and how huge they make the iron sights to be usable. When they're made small and the correct size your eye can't really focus on it the same way it would in real life so the enlarged sight is a creative liberty to make it easier to use.

[@thelizardking3807]

I’m glad somebody else recognizes the poor representations of actual ironsights

[@ralphengland8559]

This was the exact reason I wasn't a fan of many shooters. The iron sights didn't feel like I was used to.

[@badideagenerator2315]

They just don't know how human eyesight works. You don't get proper stereoscopic vision or pehipheral vision in most first person videogames.

[@howdoichangemyusername9802]

Wouldn’t that cause players to want optical sights?

[@hankstorm3135]

They say it's only for spec ops units like SAS, Seals etc. But in COD you play as these units. And if you pay attention to say Battlefield 3-4 as well as specific COD campaign mission where you do play as infantry, you get more standard issue builds.

[@thevoices5880]

PMCs would have access to whatever attachments they can afford, and especially since a lot of them are ex-special forces they often have better kits than an average infantryman. And scavengers get access to any attachments they come across. There's really not many games where you're playing as an average infantryman. Even in MW2 when you're playing as Private Allen (before No Russian) you're at least a member of the 75th Ranger Regiment so it makes sense why you've got a pistol (as that's standard issue for Rangers) and it isn't much of a stretch to have a holographic sight on your M4 instead of the standard M68 CCO (the Aimpoint Comp M2 or M4 is the commercial name). The only games where you can play as a standard nobody infantryman would be the Arma series, or really any historical game, as well as COD WWII and earlier CODs (calling them historical would be laughable).

[@epikmadman5518]

@@thevoices5880 very laughable

[@jacobnierman9350]

When he’s says it’s only for special forces he’s talking about real life, I’m pretty sure most of us know in video games you take the role of a spec ops guy, because you are basically a one man army and with a background of spec ops and not a average soldier it helps suspend the disbelief

[@donksx]

@@thevoices5880 Arma is pretty awesome

[@Jdawg33198]

It's always a good day when another Loadout video gets uploaded.

[@No-qc7rz]

Yes very true

[@IrregularDave]

[@matthew_natividad]

Always

[@yohancesamuel2066]

ahh yes with this new loadout am completely unstoppable i will be able to win any engagement regardless of anything that may or may not hinder it

[@imslamming]

i like how his example of a "long firearm" in modern warfare was a bullpup, which would by default be shorter than any comparable conventional rifle

[@IrregularDave]

What’s crazy is that the Ash-12 (oden) is a bullpup but actually longer than something like an M4 Carbine. Imagine what a non bullpup version would be 👀

[@RexNicolaus]

In overall length, that is true. Bullpups still maintain average barrel length to retain muzzle velocity.

[@genericscottishchannel1603]

The longest barrel you can put on it is 81cm, plus the near doubling from the colossus suppressor

[@GreenJay]

I find it interesting how everybody has a "limit" of how much realism they want in their games. Not that any given amount is the "wrong" amount, just that people have different priorities depending on what they want out of a gaming experience. I think it's cool.

[@afd19850]

For me its setting based. Ww2 should be WW2. Modern is fine for MW19/Tarkov style attachments and future settings can go nuts.

[@GreenJay]

@@afd19850 completely fair, MW2019 has some of my favorite customization I've seen in a shooter. Yet when I look at Vanguard I get sick.

[@nucleus691]

Theres definetly a limit to how realistic a game should be like I dont wanna have to file my taxes half way through a tactical shooter campaign

[@astrobagans6182]

I have to agree. Tarkov for example some helmets can stop rifle rounds and some even have a chance to stop armor piercing rounds. In real life there is no way a helmet would do that since they are made for small arms and shrapnel but it is nice to know your head is a little bit safer when running a big gear kit

[@heroinboblivesagain5478]

@RG Ahahaha man you dweebs.

[@dreadpirate677]

One area of player customization touched on lightly in the previous videos on shotguns and sound suppressors is the question of ammunition type. That topic might be worth a Loadout video by itself, given how contentious it can be among gamers. Some games abstract things such that you only have to worry about having enough "light pistol" or "heavy rifle" ammunition. Others may deal with caliber but gloss over the difference between 39mm Soviet vs. 51mm NATO in 7.62. Then you have games like Fallout 2 where you can't fire the broomhandle pistol without finding/buying 9mm Mauser. Added on to that is the magical ammo types from games like the Fallout and Mass Effect series, shooting things like EMP rounds or high-energy plasma from what are basically slug-throwers. Gamers seem to be very divided on how much realism here is fun.

[@Yea___]

It's subjective, not divisive

[@Anraksa]

Don't forget Call of Duty Modern Warfare. It was insane that you could only pick up ammo from weapons using the same cartridges. For example, a MP5 modded for 10mm couldn't pick up ammo from a 9mm MP5.

[@rmcgowa1987]

@@Anraksa I don't see the problem you could pick up that ammo sure but from what I know it's not a good idea to use an ammo type for a weapon that isn't chambered for it

[@neidhartmuller8804]

@@rmcgowa1987 i shoot 8mm bullets in my 11mm mp5 all the time

[@rmcgowa1987]

​@@neidhartmuller8804 is your mp5 designed to shoot 8mm? You should probably check I did some research and it says you should not chamber a round unless it is designed for your weapon as it can put excessive wear on your extractor your mp5 could be designed to shoot both 11mm and 8 mm though I don't know

[@Lurowene]

The GARAND ping followed by the removal of the bottom fed detachable magazine was top tier comedy

[@kentan00]

Ghost Recon Future Soldier gunssmith system, was the first time I saw a weapon customization mechanic taken to the next level. and I think it should be part of the conversation when it comes to weapon attachments in games

[@R-SXX]

Yeha, from gas systems to scopes, it really took it to the next level. I wish breakpoint would have made Trigger response etc. also part of the gunsmith, because now, why would anyone chose NOT a automatic trigger if you can fire single with it anyway.

[@ChrissieBear]

I actually prefer games where you have to pick your weapon customization beforehand rather than changing it on the fly.

[@yohancesamuel2066]

doesnt even makesense in bf2042 where you change ammo like don't you have to change the receiver or extractor or something

[@alteredbeast192]

yeah i really didnt like that going in to bf2042 then the game turned out to be a pile of poo so i didnt have to worry about it

[@cdgonepotatoes4219]

It makes more sense if you could do that only for suppressors, if the muzzle brake has compatible threading or you start off with just a suppressor, then you could extend the invitation if you want it possible for an optic to be shot and break with giving the prompt of removing it and swapping to your backup irons.

[@LeBoomStudios]

Far Cry 6 was like that. You can change your loadout on the fly, but modifying the attachments had to be done at a workbench in one of your bases.

[@TheFirstCurse1]

I like the idea of it if it's limited to muzzle devices and scopes/sights. That I'm 100% fine with. Same with folding/collapsing and unfolding/extending a stock. That makes sense. But anything else is way too much and unrealistic.

[@calebwirt2703]

That Garand video clip around 9:20. I was like "yea it looks funky" and then it fired way more than 8 shots, and I went "huh?" Then the drum magazine gets pulled out of the bottom of the M1 Garand, that uses an 8 round en bloc clip in an internal magazine, and my soul left my body

[@benjaminsantelices7353]

You may have also noticed that despite being magazine-fed, the clip “ping” can be heard when it’s empty.

[@PitFriend1]

And they called me mad when I stuck a bayonet onto my M60 machinegun way back in the day.

[@Mr_T_Badger]

Lieutenant General “Chesty” Puller would approve this statement. 😋

[@55INFAMASE]

Sad that it’s never mentioned that in games you can not swap sights and scopes, but in real life the moment you unscrew the mount of a scope, it’s no longer zeroed in, if even accurate at all. Seriously, I swapped out a scope on a rifle while at the range, and it was off target by a few feet! I wish it kept its zero after the first time, that would be nice 😂

[@Thecelestial1]

If you zero and take off the optic and put it back on in the same place it should retain its zero.

[@araaraavery]

@@Thecelestial1 depends on the quality tbh. alot of cheaper optics do not hold their zero very reliably

[@recklesssquirel5962]

@@araaraavery its not an optic issue (unless its a 25 dollar scope from Wal-Mart) its a mount issue. Removing and mounting an optic shouldn't change the zero given that its mounted in the same place and the screws are tightened the same.

[@ExperiencesAndEquipment]

95% of the time I'd say you're right. The Army M68 cco has a pretty cool mount that let's you remove the scope and reattach it and not lose zero. But at $1000 for the sight which I don't like (weight, bulk) I'd rather deal with having to rezero my scope.

[@saschahofmann2421]

And thats why p-caps are better

[@KillaAkuma]

I just want to point out a small correction, as a former soldier, during my 2 tours in Iraq I was able to customize my M4 anyway I wanted as long as when I returned it to the armory it was back to the way it was issued. I spent my own money to change a few things for ergonomics and comfort on my rifle. It is allowed at least in the US Army anyways, but only if the soldier pays for it themselves.

[@Helperbot-2000]

Thats interesting to hear, it likely makes the user more effective even if by a very small margin

[@devilin100]

@@Helperbot-2000 up until my 3rd deployment there was a critical shortage of optics, we had to buy our own, often the ones we were suppose to be issued. the logistics guys thought it was more important to ship new gear we needed overseas to units in country, cause its less work and more units could get equipped so they look good.

[@Helperbot-2000]

@@devilin100 oh thats weird, deployed units seems like should be highest priority

[@AndreiSelescu]

Same with the IDF, you get your m4 and a sight and you can do whatever as lomg as its returned the same, although there are some stuff that do get issued, its usually flash lights and vertical foregrips but it really depends on the unit. Usually you won't buy your own attachments here since its frowned upon and makes you look green, you earn them by getting them from guys that discharge

[@mws3779]

When it comes to historical events, there are some who might think these things existed in the time frame the game takes place. To see a soldier with a reflex sight on a black powder musket would be crazy right? But some of these game designers would do that.

[@averiWonBTW]

I could see them put a telescopic sight on a musket lol

[@ElevenEightNate]

@@averiWonBTW Whitworth muzzle loaders with Wm. Malcolm 6x scopes were used during the Civil War.

[@joaovilaca1436]

@@ElevenEightNate there were experimental developments of night vision as early as in the first world war. It doesn't mean that it would be realistic to have every soldier with night goggles fighting in the dark. Even in world war two night vision was veeeeery limited. I don't think NV was practical until the invasion of Iraq.

[@dondeka2086]

imagine if they made a civil war FPS game and abraham lincoln calls a predator missle after 3 musket quickscopes

[@danshakuimo]

@@dondeka2086 After a 10 killstreak he can use the emancipation proclamation and increase the respawn rate of his team

[@kishaloyb.7937]

I'll be honest guys, I just come to these videos to get educated by Jonathan Ferguson on ballistic firearms. I could attend his lectures for days before I tire out. Great work!!!

[@Mr_T_Badger]

If Tarkov did a gun building spin off, just give me the toys to build my franken-gun to horrify Johnathan with, I would be in heaven.

[@predstrogen]

great video! just found it funny that at 9:56 its labelled at halo 3 odst instead of halo 2, they do have the same setting and the battle rifle scope is similar to the SMG

[@keymind117]

Glad someone else noticed.

[@LazloTheGame]

And 5:12 is either incorrectly labeled or footage from a modded client of MW2 as the Nuketown map did not exist in that game.

[@DaRadicalCavy]

You haven't made a custom gun until added a grenade launcher, bayonet, 3 scopes, array of laser sights and whatever else can fit on a bright pink SMG in Gun Club VR

[@DaRadicalCavy]

@J Hemphill that's the point of making it. You are making just the most crazy, chaotic and unrealistic gun possible. It's not supposed to be something you'd every actually see in real life...

[@240pixel]

In US infantry you can change things around to a certain degree. a lot of M4 carbines have after market furniture, pressure switches for the PEQ-15 laser modules and some folks chose to add stuff like forward grip or flashlight too.

[@alphanomad511]

Not for the average grunt. Rangers probably

[@240pixel]

@@alphanomad511 I am an average grunt.

[@gooberone]

Dunno. Usually that stuff is limited to higher up infantry along with stuff like rangers and spec ops, maybe they are rolling it out to standard units? No clue. I think after market stuff that you buy yourself generally has been fine for a while though

[@mc-sillix961]

@@alphanomad511 Boy you can buy everything in the internet and mount it just to your service rifle.

[@KasumiRINA]

@@gooberone literally anyone who enlists as volunteer will get custom guns with aftermarket furniture in Ukraine, and if they are the sorry few who try to figure out ironsights, you find a charity that crowdfunds scopes and holos lol.

[@Cooltech06]

For me Cod MW2019 was a good gunsmith system in my opinion it had alot of realistic attachments like the monolithic suppressor while it had lots of options and the cursed setups people can do is just player preference.

[@dgtldead]

Gunsmith was definitely a good improvement, but it failed the same issue previous cods had: little reason not to use a suppressor. Muzzle attachments outside of suppressors never seem to have enough power in comparison. The monolithic suppressor was too good, and the downsides of it too weak whereas every other muzzle device just didn't compete. I hope going forward with gunsmith there are really powerful options in each category so you have to actually decide on what to pick, rather than leveling up to reach what's deemed the best.

[@joshuajoaquin5099]

MW2019 gunsmith is good but for me tarkov got me for the attachments since they are from companies that made them such as FAB Defense, Magpul, Daniel Defense, Zenitco and etc which made me hunt those parts and build my own M&P-15. Also currently building my Little Green men AK and Spetnaz Alpha AK from it, Zenitco is hard to come by if you want authentic ones and if the part is a rare one

[@dijonjohn1011]

The monolithic suppressor was so OP... Modern Warfare could have done a much better job trying to balance attachments, but they were more focused on selling cosmetics/blueprints.

[@2bNIKEt1]

I wish this conversation would catch more momentum. I think balance can be achieved with accurate depictions of attachments. You literally just need maybe 3-5 industry professionals to lean on.

[@lukasb2790]

But would it ne fun?

[@EvitiniaNetTV]

Not mentioning the SWAT games is kinda sad, it really layed groundwork that no game really had with that much choice and impact whilst still being somewhat realistic.

[@ninjaneven4274]

It'd be nice to see a video about how the gaming industry has influenced the weapons manufacturering

[@jack1701e]

Didn't the US army use xbox controllers for some tanks or something? Or drones maybe, something along the lines of 'We're getting recruits who play video games a lot, why not use this controller they're used to to make it more streamlined?' I might be wrong, it was a while ago I heard of this but it might be true.

[@visassess8607]

@@jack1701e Yeah the military still uses an xbox controller for drones.

[@nealang9520]

You just got my attention my friend 😉

[@chris.3711]

It really hasn't. More gun influence games than games influence weapons manufacturing.

[@patmooney1407]

@@jack1701e we had PlayStation controllers for a couple of our bomb disposal robots while I was in.

[@joaquinvelasquez6252]

I have never put on an optic on my weapons in Vangaurd that was not from WWII. It felt like a slap in the face to the era when I saw that you can put a COG or refex sight optic on a Garrard.

[@DOVM6336]

Bruh u can’t even spell garand and vanguard correctly

[@joaquinvelasquez6252]

@@DOVM6336 Thanks I'll find the proper spelling and write them 10 times each and say it out loud. ☺

[@burnininhell]

The slap in the face would be vanguard in general.

[@joaquinvelasquez6252]

@@burnininhell @burnininhell I guess they couldn't make "Call of Duty: WWII 2" so they went for Vanguard.

[@willb.7417]

nah man im running around with a reflex sight on my pink fedorov that shoots lasers and i love it personally

[@stevef4930]

On the suppressor issue, you could argue that the game is using subsonic rounds when the suppressor is selected. But yeah I agree that with hypersonic rounds videogames are insanely inaccurate

[@AdolfHitler-lk4vo]

except that most weapons that use normal rounds wouldnt cycle with subsoni cartridges

[@benchgoblin]

Nobody uses subsonic rounds in combat even if you tune the gas system you will have malfunctions due to decrease in gas to cycle the bolt, subsonic rounds are way less lethal but suppressors are extremely optimal in combat you just do have to wear ear protection because the tone and decibel are both still damaging

[@Nr15121]

@@benchgoblin a lot of the noise is from the weapon cycling as well, subs will cycle in most stuff just fine and generally you can just swap a recoil spring or adjust the gas in the unlikely event you need to

[@NormadYT]

5:19 I believe you’re technically correct if you’re using standard ammo but for it to be truly a “silencer” meaning suppressor you need subsonic rounds which have way less grain in leading to a lower chamber psi and quicker drop, not sure how that affects velocity but I feel it does, firing normal rounds through a suppressor only decreases the noise by 10decibels either 120 to 110 or 110-100db

[@AnonEMus-cp2mn]

When it comes to customizing weapons in real life, one begins to see distinctive pros and cons with nearly EVERYTHING. Games that take these attributes into account are by far the most immersive in my experience. Something as simple as weapon weight for example: (heavy weapons are unstable when unsupported, but stable when supported; with lightweight weapons being opposite).

[@scotttimbrell8632]

Yeah but what if youre a super solider, using an exo-skeleton, magic or stable armour? Why do guns still kick and go crazy? Thats what breaks my immersion. Youre telling me that a Titan in Destiny 2 cant handle a small SMGs fire rate? Come off it.

[@AnonEMus-cp2mn]

@@scotttimbrell8632 The simple answer is balancing, and in that super-specific example; there was a time where every PvP player was running smgs.

[@scotttimbrell8632]

Funnily enough thats my entire point. sometimes you have to sacrifice immersion for gameplay, like how attachments work now break your immersion, same how strong people getting shingles firing a 9mm gun.@@AnonEMus-cp2mn

[@alcatrazthatguyontheintern1465]

Seeing Dave and Jonathan in the same room brings me joy. You know these guys are definitely good chums at this point.

[@mrsmartypants4541]

This video: Call of Duty MW4 had a broad range of attachments that popularised customisation in games. Blacklight Retribution: Am I a joke to you?

[@TheLp640fan]

im not gonna lie, that M1 drum mag still pinging absolutely broke me

[@THE.kevman237]

@9:57 Gents, that ain't ODST! That's the first part of Halo 2's Outskirts! 😊

[@danielarcher4060]

Glad someone else noticed!

[@THE.kevman237]

@@danielarcher4060 😊👍

[@kenoi131]

I know we're all here for Jonathan, but let's not forget about Dave! He's an excellent presenter and does a fantastic job in these videos.

[@IrregularDave]

That's real kind of you to say, thank you!

[@kenoi131]

@@IrregularDave You're very welcome, keep up the great work!

[@SmokesKwazukii]

vanguard shouldve taken a wolfenstien-esque alternate history, diesel punk approach and gone absolutely mad with the tech

[@zebmccollum]

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare (2019) I thought was pretty realistic with their attachments compared to their real world counterparts. When the new black ops came out I immediately had a dislike for it since a lot of the stuff they had in the game wasn't even invented yet. The realism is what draws me into these games. I do understand they're playing to the audience, but that kind of stuff doesn't entice me to enjoy the game. no if it's a game like Halo then I don't care about the weapon realism, it's supposed to be 500 years in the future.

[@jlhill17]

The selection of attachments in CoD:MW2019 was great and realistic, but they didn't have very realistic effects (for gameplay reasons). The suppressors reduced range and damage (as was mentioned in the video, the opposite is true irl), grip tape was important for recoil management and ADS speed (pretty negligible irl), and (my favorite) removing the stock made the gun recoil less and ADS faster (does the exact opposite irl).

[@toxicgracie3772]

@@jlhill17 Monolithic suppressor gives you more range and bullet velocity, and removing the stock of any gun in MW makes the recoil worse and ADS faster... So what are you even on about?

[@olesams]

Payday 2 did it 4 years before Tarkov. Not as extensive. But you could change anything from bolts, scopes, foregrips, magazines, muzzle and stock. Unless i forgot something here. The same weapon could be a heavy hitting semi auto AR. Or more of a battle rifle. Or a small, compact rapid fire un for concealment. And with the same limitations. You could make a 45 pistol or Deagle near auto fire. But then your recoil and precision suffered immensely. And some weapons had limitations at range due to power or stability(a stat). So, a small, compact smg with a huge scope gave you magnification. But the stability and ofc power of the rounds(dmg) did not make for a good long range weapon. Very in depth system.

[@stevemc6010]

Ghost Recon Future Soldier and Medal of Honor: Warfighter also had very deep customization in 2012, one year before Payday 2.

[@VeraTR909]

That garand ping when it was fitted with a drum magazine ;p

[@thejackal5099]

Disappointed Crysis didn't get a mention. Like Call of Duty 4, it was released in 2007, but not only did it allow you to customize your guns, but you could do so in real time.

[@Token_Black_Guy]

Check out warface

[@bebe-ux1wk]

5:24 The reason suppressor demage less could be because if you realy want to suppres a weapon you need to use subsonic ammo which travels slower than supersonic (normal) ammo.

[@JarlBSoD]

Kind of depends on the amunittion if it is possible or not though. Making a subsonic 308 or 5.56 for example, would create a massive amount of other issues in an automatic rifle. You can do it and it has been done but it effectivley would turn an AR10 and or AR15 in to a manual bolt action rifle. The 5.56 would allso lose it's bigest advantage, which is speed.

[@bebe-ux1wk]

@El Cactuar My bad, i corrected it!

[@Josh-mk7ok]

@@JarlBSoD except most modern AR15s and 10a have adjustable gas blocks allowing the rifle to properly cycle subsonic rounds

[@pgfrank2351]

Tarkov is the very first game I ever played that really felt like I am holding real gun rather than something thats made out of pixels put in front of the screen to shoot things. No other game has come close to that feeling.

[@Overlord99762]

I noticed that they have a weird recoil model, the stocks seemingly doesn't connect with the shoulder, and the weapons often lift in an odd angle.

[@jaztheman2]

@@Overlord99762 It's had a rework in the next patch coming in the next week or so

[@afd19850]

Great video as always gents. We must remember though, in an FPS, your gun IS your character. Adding attachments is another extension of that.

[@ph8429]

Potential episode ideas that come to mind are: Mines(e.g. Claymore), Body Armor, Thermal/Night Vision, Barrett .50 Cal, LMGs, and maybe the idea of calling in air support.

[@R-SXX]

10:00 it's incredible how we, as people, are completely misinformed by games and by companies. Not only is our perception of acog scopes wrong, but there so many more examples. "Waldmeiste" is a flavour for many different foods but did you know that the real world waldmeister does not taste like the waterice foods? It's a completely manufacteured taste made from chemicals yet so many people believe that's the taste of that particular thing.

[@chris.3711]

The hard reality of not only weapon balance, but player interest. In the real world, most weapon customizations people do are more for comfort than anything else. Suppressors, lights, lasers, and optics are truely the biggest advantage you will ever gain in a weapon system, everything else is rather minimal.

[@jackhaugh]

A good trigger on a rifle is a HUGE upgrade as well.

[@hektik2074]

I remember 007 Goldeneye where your only attachment options were a suppressed and non suppressed PP7, but even that option was limited as only a few levels had both

[@ThaneaPally]

I love the point you make at the end about options generally being a good thing. Fun can overcome real world inaccuracy for sure. The one counter point I can make there is in some cases the progression loop can be a bit of an overpower problem. Large numbers of game have weapons that are near enough to unusable when you get them that go to over powered with unlocks. That becomes punishing for players that are late adopters of new games. I feel that the need for more unlocks has made this worse in more recent games.

[@eurydice4766]

Not in tarkov though

[@zatharos6427]

5:11 the monolithic suppressor (to which everyone in COD uses) is the exception to this. It does infact increase range and velocity of the round if you have it attached

[@pierrebernard7665]

I'll be honest, I couldn't finish Ghost Recon Wildlands without the underbarrel grenade launcher. When you're surrounded by enemy cars, this thing is litteraly magic. Not sure an actual soldier would find that very believable though =P

[@AndreiSelescu]

Seeing as its probably a 40mm grenade launcher (I haven't played the game) and it kinda sounds like close quarters heres another bit of unrealism, those grenades you fire only become live after 40m of travel. Just thougth i'd share

[@AndreiSelescu]

@Derid Got me there, I think it's a time delay where it should travel 40 meters according to the muzzle velocity at exit

[@kutter_ttl6786]

​​@derid7832the grenade arms itself based on rotational forces. After the projectile is launched it will arm itself after its spun around a set number of times. Also, the arming distance varies based on the fuse used. They have short delay fuses that arm themselves just 2-3m after being launched.

[@HECKproductions]

oh god the oil filter supressor gives me an aneurysm every time

[@JohannKwan]

@5:35 bad example. Arma suppressors actually *do* increase the velocity of the round.

[@bratwurst153]

I still play arma 3 to this day I’ve got loads of “private” mods installed

[@Tuubesoxx]

The thing i hate about customizing guns in games is you painstakingly pick the options you like best (probably testing different settings to hone in what you like) and then it forces you to ditch it and pick up an enemy gun because there's no ammo around.

[@jesustyronechrist2330]

I think it's just people getting tired of this "Hollywoodification" of weapons. Where you just have the gun shoot bullet and that's it, you don't think about how it actually works. That's it's purely aesthetical. But once you are aware of how guns work, when they aren't depicted, not realistically, but HONESTLY, it sticks out like a sore thumb.

[@444455555ization]

So crazy seeing Jonathan in HD. I just assumed he was that blurry in real life.

[@damienlee1165]

I feel like Jonathan could make funny cameos in gun heavy movies or shows in the future.

[@the_beak9238]

I was in the Marines and you could generally use whatever kind of forward foregrip or sling with exceptions obviously, for example we could use 1, 2 and 3 point slings with our m4's. However you could NOT swap out things like trijicon scopes and ir lasers. Those were issued to us with weapons cards just like our actual rifles and you could NOT lose then.

[@cementdrinker]

“We can add an extended mag-“ *adds 25-round .45 UMP 45 mag to an MP5 that was holding a 9mm 30-round mag* You lost at your own game

[@arteyy3388]

yeah I noticed that too, made me kind of die inside

[@autistic_m4a3_76w_hvss]

I think the reason why Suppresors in multiple games looses Damage at range is because of the subsonic rounds that make the gun quiet

[@archfxt3619]

Makes even less sense since we usually dont get the option to equip subsonic ammo , and most suppresors are run with normal rounds still if suppresors and subsonics are in game and considered with RL property and physics - everyone would be running it , since most fps games are in enclosed cqb-type area , unless you're in battlefield and playing as marksman

[@ichiban_co.]

Subsonic rounds also mainly reduce accuracy not dmg A bullet is a bullet lol

[@archfxt3619]

@@ichiban_co. it also does reduce the impact a bit , but not by a noticeable margin like in games

[@Samos900]

I always thought suppressors made the range drop off because it was implied that they would be using subsonic rounds

[@Invictus901]

That’s… a really good point. I’m a snob about guns irl and their portrayal in fiction and suppressors always bug me… but I hadn’t given thought that that should be implied 🤔

[@Samos900]

@@Invictus901 Dude, movies where they’re shooting and the dust cover is closed.. like did you even try? But yeah that’s the only way I can make it make sense haha

[@tobiashagstrom4168]

I think attachment tinkering makes most sense in settings that are more chaotic and unregulated. Settings where there isn't much in the way of regimented standards and where people find ways of creatively adapting whatever weapons they get their hands on. Settings that revolve around the post-apocalyptic, some kind of rugged frontier, organized crime gangs, or for local characters in less developed areas with long-running conflicts. Even then, it'd be more a matter of rebuilding the weapon out of battle, not so much swapping things whilst charging at the enemy.

[@KollektorKahn]

11-B guys do get a choice when it comes to stocks mags grips slings some muzzle devices and sometimes depending on your unit, optics.

[@mattd6931]

I love that everyone acknowledges that while not accurate, there's the gameplay and enjoyment aspects that apply too, but there's still that balance, which some games go too far with.

[@awmperry]

9:30 - en-bloc ping *and* mag change? My head hurts…

[@Geilswijk]

Guess the PC version of Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighters weapon custom options from 2006, with far more options than CoD4 ever offered a year later are just glossed over...

[@ryuhanja3415]

2:05 why is a “high capacity” mag for the MP5 just switching to a 10mm mag?

[@savagebanana3711]

*hears m1 garand ping* *proceeds to change magazine*

[@solid5502]

My favorite loadout is the same one I use in pretty much every modern shooter such as Battlefield, PUBG, Insurgency: Sandstorm, Rainbow Six, and Ghost Recon. M416. Laser-light combo on top of the barrel. Vertical grip. 4X ACOG scope with the 'arrow' tip down or sometimes the Holographic hybrid sight. Suppressor (sometimes).

[@awesomezombi1026]

why have a laser sight in sandstorm that's dumb

[@siwyktos3928]

Ive played ground branch recently and one thing that really suprised me was that u could move attachments on rails and set them at ehichever spot u want. Its in early acces now and i belive that where stuff i set on rails matter only when u want to fit more stuff and with viefinders

[@nishidohellhillsruler6731]

Well, the first three Borderlands play a little trick on you. It's not really that much as "a billion guns", but a very large combination of the parts that make those guns. When you think about it, it's actually a very conceivable number.

[@T3AMCXMCHUCK]

The tongue in cheek M1 with the drum mag that still pings upon emptying the magazine was pretty funny ngl.

[@inw_sentinel]

"This whole modular accessorization phenomenom comes from the world of special operations forces, and is still quite limited to that" Son, let me tell you a story of a place called 'Civilian America' lol

[@AlphalanceVO]

I’m surprised Dave didn’t mention Borderlands more. I know it’s not realistic based but it was hilarious how the randomizer would sometimes put high power scopes on shotguns

[@Bigcat726]

I felt that MW 2019 did it better and Tarkov the best and I felt that ghost recon future soldier is very unique

[@magodejos5699]

Same as Medal of Honor Warfighter, that and Ghost Recon Future Soldier were the only ones that used this “””new””” standard weapon customization back in their respective time. I remember even seeing tac sprint in Future Soldier as well

[@ahemboi577]

5:12 Are we ignoring how he said "Modern Warfare 2" While showing Black Ops Nuketown Gameplay?

[@laernulienlaernulienlaernu8953]

Everyone needs a sawn-off shotgun with a silencer and long, night vision scope!

[@socwyvern9745]

Were also gonna ignore sighting in optics and the fact that a majority of optics aren’t even quick disconnect.

[@deejay1534]

Even as good as MW2019 was with weapon customization, they messed up quite a bit with some weapon attachment aesthetics, despite literally hiring weapon enthusiasts and industry experts. For example, not having a riser on the Aim-Op (Aimpoint T1) red dot sight when mounting it to guns like the M4, putting foregrips like the Merc foregrip too far back on the handguards, muzzle devices on the pistols being way out of proportion, parts in general like stocks being way out of proportion, etc.

[@-_Oddity_-]

I think the Merc foregrip was put further back because they saw some people doing a mag well grip and thought that that’s where they’d want a foregrip lol

[@deejay1534]

@@-_Oddity_- its funny too cause realistically magwell grips are inferior for stability compared to c clamping or just holding a foregrip further out, you'd think one of the experts would've showed them the proper techniques lol

[@YapbreakOne]

the animation at 2:00 is so good that the mag release even moves when the mags are switched out

[@marmite8959]

I could live with the Battlefield 1 weapon mods because they were at least vaguely based in reality with the open lens sights and the Radium glow sights, it felt more like a dieselpunk 1919 fantasy setting than actual WW1 anyway. That's about the limit of my suspension of disbelief though.

[@Bean5prout]

"afverage recruit" here, British light infantry from 2010-2018 we where allowed to configure the front of our service rifle to suit. personal use of hand grips and bipods. sometimes laser attachments IR and white/red light as well as laser pointers where mission required but we could have them on or not normally. even swapping the scope out to a night or thermal optic at night. not really much else you can do with a SA80

[@believeinmatter]

Im a big ww2 buff, but i actually like the customization in Vanguard, even though it’s completely inaccurate its still pretty fun because of the crazy “new” weapons you can basically create

[@Flakjacket96]

Yep, same here. They feel very Dieselpunk.

[@brotha.b]

i was watching these videos in a dark room last night and that led backlight was scorching my retinas

[@builder396]

This is why Tarkov is the best. Its only limit is what physically fits, and there is no stuck-up officer telling you no.

[@weebairsoft3493]

"A straight bolt on a bolt action rifle just wouldn't work" Swiss K11: "AM I A JOKE TO YOU???"

[@theankotze1292]

Have Jonathan do a part 2 reaction to 2019’s COD Modern Warfare 2019! Have him focus on the gunsmith and DLC weapons!

[@princeblasian3735]

Lets not forget about Army of Two that introduced lots of weapon attatchment options such as scopes, underbarrels (grenade launchers), stocks, muzzles as well as a gun shield similar to Blackbeard in Rainbow Six Siege. And this came out in 2008. Just one year after Call of Duty 4 that only allowed 1 attatchment

[@anthonywhisnant6297]

Being a gun owner it really bothers me how a lot of games get guns wrong. An m4 doesn't have to be drowning in gear but it should have the essentials. Buis, optic, a light/IR system with tape switch, and maybe a foregrip or handstop.

[@haydenanderson1898]

The best part is that my unit allows us to have gun belts, foregrips and kit customization. As long as it follows the uniform standard and it has to work properly for the field

[@afd19850]

Hopefully Vandguard has been so poorly selling that they don’t make another WW2 COD. I loved the setting but last couple of WW2 cod’s have been really sub-par!

[@ryanashby3640]

Na, they just need to shut down sledgehammer.

[@dfdedsdcd]

In new Call of Duty games' alternate history, they could explain it away by saying that the Germans developed some (literal) magic way to make a sight small and reliable enough that works on a weapon. The Germans were experimenting with Projekt Endstation near the end of the war, and it could be shown that they found some holes to the other side that gave them some material to power small reflex sights.

[@GaryHamad]

What Tarkov Did Was a 10 Commandments of Gun Customization What Vanguard Did Was What Christians Did after Jesus Crucified

[@GamePlayStreaming]

For me, I've tried other game to replace Tarkov and there are games out there with a lot of attachments and satisfying parts to put on your weapon but what's missing is they way you do it. In Tarkov when you have to move an object from one bag to another or from a weapon case right on your weapon that part feels like a part, like you own it and can throw it away or lose it. Other games, once you get that part it just becomes an icon in your inventory that you scroll through using a controller. It's because of the controllers these interfaces are made this way.